PvP changes coming in GU 36

[HerbertWalker]

Which part is unlikely?  That my memory will still be in tact in 5 years, that they will attempt to release those sequels, or that I will care at all?   

[Cyst]

ElephantonRU wrote:

Demron wrote:

It's people like you who don't understand the dynamics of the game and never will. You make up for your lack of skill with an ever increasing whining. Last night on my level 58 Ranger I NEVER used my two big attacks and in fact melee'd 60% of my fights and guess what? I won as many fights as I normally would have because what makes a Ranger and other scouts good is the initiative. You idiots don't understand how much more beneficial track/stealth are when used properly.

Until you learn that and how to counter that none of you "nerf scouts" whiners will ever be on an even playing field with us scouts. Funny thing is a scout can play any other class after playing a scout and do better against scouts than you whiners ever will, PERIOD!

I killed 28 people last night never once using my big attacks and most of the time I melee'd.

I want to thank everyone last night for their insignias and thank the future whiners now for the ones I take from you after the patch when you feel more confident to stick around allowing me to kill you before you come back whining for more nerfs because you can't learn how to beat a scout.

THANK YOU!

From what you said it is clear that you never even played a ranger. You cannot win the fight meleeing unless you fight naked AFK char. Saying that you won 60% of fight just meleing is total bull. We have just a few melee attacks and they are fairly weak.

Please don't come here acting as a ranger because you either not a ranger, or you don't play on PVP server, or you were fighting trash dressed noobs who were afk. I know my class too well to believe in crap like this. I can accept a lot of crazy stuff about rangers, but not winning a fair PVP fight with melee only. And 60% of 28 is 16... so you basically said you won 16 fights melee only? Wait, for those 16 fights - you must have encountered plate wearers which are almost impossible to kill even after you unload all your skill including? I would also like to see how you were killing any healer with only melee haha or SK (LOL). Or manashielded sorceror, or necro with lifetaps and lifeburn. Please stop your BS. The only idiot here is you, because you have no clue about rangers and thus don't act as one.

Also, cross-posting is against rules of this forum. You made sure your fake stuff is all over these forums, how smart.

Actually I'm Champion Demron (58 Ranger) on Venekor.. Look me up.

My Master I back attack does nearly 1000 damage on average, not to mention the follow up attack if you're fighting anyone but a scout and are lucky enough to get it off. I rarely if ever fight a healer, or most other scouts for obvious reasons you know. But using a Snare technique, and having spec'd fully in the Intelligence line, I can use up my CAs, and then snare, and flee from any plate class and come back when CAs are back up. Most of the time getting off multiple back attacks using both of my stuns.

Fights do not have to end quickly to win!

Against any class with Mana Shield you can watch it go off, snare, stun, run leading them on a wild goose chase and count 30 seconds only to stealth dropping their target and move back in for the kill.

Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean I didn't do it.

P.S. I also religiously use Pumice Stones to drop a lot of beneficial buffs from my targets.

[Cyst]

shaunfletcher wrote:

Demron wrote:

P.S. I had to go back and reread what you said.. You did say "I almost beat him" and you also said "what you think he was doing nothing till then"? Yeah, he /waved at me every so often and then killed me. You do understand you can read (granted if you can really read) combat logs to see he did absolutely nothing till then.

If he genuinely did nothing for that long then killed you easy then that would be overpower, though at 5 levels above you he should expect a real advantage.

Was he twinked beyond belief in comparison to you? He was just a wizard, where was he getting this amazing damage soak from?

lets see them logs then, Im happy to be convinced wizard is madly overpowered.

You do realize Shaun that a properly spec'd Wizard or Warlock with Manashield can soak up 14,000 damage right?

[Armawk]

Ah thought you said he did nothing.. seems to me he was using an ability, and burning power while he was at it. THat there isnt an animation associated with it doesnt make using it "doing nothing" as it is just like casting repeated spells in terms of the fact it uses power and has an effect. Also unless Im highly confused it lasts like 30 seconds and then cant be cast for another minute?

 (Now I do think the new 2:1 ratio on that is a bit silly, but a 1:1 ratio is kind of stupid too)

[Armawk]

silentpsycho wrote:

Snigger?  You mean snicker...

Im not sure I understand the difference (Im english, perhaps we speak a different dialect), but if it makes one then sure why not.

[Simera]

After checking out test..is a pretty big change of some aa skills..WHY are we not getting a respec on this?

[The_Real_Ohno]

Safia@Nagafen wrote:

After checking out test..is a pretty big change of some aa skills..WHY are we not getting a respec on this?

Ive been askin since the last 30 pages if we gonna get a free respec with this... guess there still tryin to figure out if it is valid question

[Istaril]

There's been a respec in every major AA change - this shouldn't be any different.

[Simera]

Well these changes are on Test..and there's no respec there.

[Badaxe Ba]

shaunfletcher wrote:

Harry@Venekor wrote:

A scout has to be on his toes and doing alot of things just right to survive, much less win. 

Sorry but Noone is going to read that without sniggering. Scouts have RULED pvp for a long time, recently their co-regents have been furies but you guys kick [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Saying it aint so is.. well its bizarre.

If you are going to quote me, don't leave out the part about the classes that DO give rangers trouble when they are skilled players.

"Solo survivor, most of the time, till that group comes along, or a brawler, berserker, Assassin, brigand, exile ranger, hell, a fury and warden too!"  I never said we couldn't win, but it does take skill and knowing your class and your opponents class as well.

And my point, which you seem to have missed, is that in groups, only under limited circumstances do our 'utility abilities' come into play.  L2R

[Bugsy--]

I play a low level ranger and in all honesty I can understand the nerf on some of our big hitting CAs. What I don't understand is the removal of in-combat run speed. In combat run speed allows rangers to actually get off their ranged CAs and after this patch rangers will really be nothing but burst damage i.e. snipe, snare n'sprint. Besides, the run bonus is easily countered so I don't see what the big problem is. Oh well, I guess I'll try to enjoy my ranger while I still can.

[Valdar]

Question for the people who have played on test.

Did the big in combat runspeed nerf make it impossible to catch runners?

[Simera]

Valdar wrote:

Question for the people who have played on test.

Did the big in combat runspeed nerf make it impossible to catch runners?

Yeah and it encourages people to run away instead of engaging..and since you've engage..you can't do anything to catch them.

It comes down to the 'in combat' rule..and the fact that if a person doesn't engage you they aren't 'in combat'.. it would work if when you hit someone they are 'in combat'.  The way it stands now it's going to be a very frustrating change for everyone, and everyone will just run from each other endless...not engaging in pvp. After the second encounter in a row with this happening, the whole group started discussing other pvp games we could try out. That bad.

[Elephanton]

Interesting... right now if I don't engage and keep my out of combat regen (food+totem) very few classes can bit my ooc regen... I wonder what would happen with this tactics after DPS nerf of all classes...

[Valdar]

So with the nerfs to in combat runspeed and overall dps how exactly can you kill an opponent that doesn't want to stick around to get ganked?

[tiredang]

Valdar wrote:

So with the nerfs to in combat runspeed and overall dps how exactly can you kill an opponent that doesn't want to stick around to get ganked?

Well, with the no zoning thing, my answer would be to chase them, snaring as you can.

[Armawk]

Ohnoes, I cant has ganks?

[Gorgamorph]

I've been attempting to play a buffed up version of my wizard. First: Somethings buggy with freehand sorcery. It doesn't prompt most of the time. Yes, mana shield is nice, but basically it means I take dmg till I go oom, then die. Melee fights are basically the same but with the added perk of being just a tad longer, stun stun stun oom dead. Nerfs to fusion/comet. To much. The casting times/chance to be interupted arn't equal to the dmg output. Me and a friend both rolled our twinked out 70s and basically sat there and unloaded on a 70 templar. I don't think we ever got him below half and once we were oom we were toast.

[Amphibia]

Safia@Nagafen wrote:

Valdar wrote:

Question for the people who have played on test.

Did the big in combat runspeed nerf make it impossible to catch runners?

Yeah and it encourages people to run away instead of engaging..and since you've engage..you can't do anything to catch them.

It comes down to the 'in combat' rule..and the fact that if a person doesn't engage you they aren't 'in combat'.. it would work if when you hit someone they are 'in combat'.  The way it stands now it's going to be a very frustrating change for everyone, and everyone will just run from each other endless...not engaging in pvp.

That is not good. I run around solo on my monk now and then, and it is already extremely easy to get away from fights. After this change it will be even easier. It is also extremely easy for people to get away from me, but I don't have any snares so meh.... Anyway - combine that with the fact that you can't chase people on clouds/carpets and griffons either, and what you end up with is a very carebear-ish PvP ruleset.... in many cases fighting someone who belongs to another faction on a PvP server is something you do when both parts agree on it... lol, duelling anyone?   I think it would help a lot if they just changed it so that it would be possible to follow people on clouds, carpets and griffons in PvP combat. As it is right now, it is just WAY to easy to escape that way. Bleh. * Edited to add a comment to that which is in red: I don't think it is a good solution to have people forced into combat simply by someone hitting them, because then it would be almost impossible to escape. And that would be even more frustrating.

[Yahshua]

Gorgamorph wrote:

I've been attempting to play a buffed up version of my wizard. First: Somethings buggy with freehand sorcery. It doesn't prompt most of the time. Yes, mana shield is nice, but basically it means I take dmg till I go oom, then die. Melee fights are basically the same but with the added perk of being just a tad longer, stun stun stun oom dead. Nerfs to fusion/comet. To much. The casting times/chance to be interupted arn't equal to the dmg output. Me and a friend both rolled our twinked out 70s and basically sat there and unloaded on a 70 templar. I don't think we ever got him below half and once we were oom we were toast.

Nice...

Ironically this is EXACTLY what I was telling my guildie would happen with the mage class without even seeing the changes; I hate it when I'm right.  Why not just make everyone a Guardian?  This is very discouraging news, and not only that, I can't for the life of me understand why SOE seems to live in this dream world of even-con fights.  We are gonna get creamed by anything that is yellow-con and above; and I think that holds true for everyone, because the nerfs to damage basically screw you as far as fighting people higher than you, which in turn is going to cause people to farm greens, which is exactly what SOE is *trying* to remedy.  I sure hope they are listening to you people on the test servers - this whole change sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

[The_Real_Ohno]

shaunfletcher wrote:

Ohnoes, I cant has ganks?

Nice one nub!  Ill always be able to gank u!  Anon posters rule!

[Armawk]

Ohnoez@Nagafen wrote:

shaunfletcher wrote:

Ohnoes, I cant has ganks?

Nice one nub!  Ill always be able to gank u!  Anon posters rule!

heh Im one of lifes noobs.. Im a noob in an RTS game that I WROTE.

Gankers (and occasionally even talented players) need fodder. People like me who mess up and press the wrong button in combat thus effectively committing suicide are needed. We bring balance to the farce.

[Elephanton]

According to PVP test server feedback, resists are meaningless in PVP now. A warlock that was fighting people with high resists (60% and higher) on the test server is saying he had only 1 outright resist on 20 casts on average.

[moog]

As a relatively new player (6 months), I find your proposal to cap AA devastating. I play a mid 40s berserker and had my lunch handed to me by gear-twinked faction pvpers all the way to about level 37. That much dying gets very old.  But instead of quitting, I spent hundreds of hours doing boring quests and repetitive writs to build up aa. Now I have a lot of aa and I'm tough. I dont get jumped near as much, and when i do, i have a fighting chance, even against a dreadnaught or destroyer scout on a level 40 guild horse (another shock to us newbies--to see a level 20 toon ride up on a flaming horse).

As I see it, the ability to work your butt off to get high aa is the only goal that makes SOE PVP worth sticking with. Now at level 44, I'm finally a match for twinked scouts and healers my level who have all the best gear that their level 70 alt's platinum helped them buy.

If you go through with this corporate driven (making it easier for newbies to survive so you get more subscriptions) plan, I'd feel like months of work to reach a goal were for nothing. Get rid of faction gear if you want to make the game more fair. Grant AA bonuses for tradeskills to reward crafting. But don't mess with AA caps. AA is the only equalizing force we nubies have. A warrior who trains and adventures for years is going to have advantages over one who doesn't. That's how good fantasy works.

I don't know about my pvp friends, but if you go through with this AA change, I plan to dump EQII and play World of Warcraft on a non-PVP server. Also keep in mind that we PVPers spend a lot of money on Station Exchange.

Moog

[Cyst]

Gorgamorph wrote:

I've been attempting to play a buffed up version of my wizard. First: Somethings buggy with freehand sorcery. It doesn't prompt most of the time. Yes, mana shield is nice, but basically it means I take dmg till I go oom, then die. Melee fights are basically the same but with the added perk of being just a tad longer, stun stun stun oom dead. Nerfs to fusion/comet. To much. The casting times/chance to be interupted arn't equal to the dmg output. Me and a friend both rolled our twinked out 70s and basically sat there and unloaded on a 70 templar. I don't think we ever got him below half and once we were oom we were toast.

Stun/Stifle Immunity potions last for 10 seconds.. No one in the game but healers can last longer than 10 seconds. So why are you having sooo many problems with Stun?

[Cyst]

Valdar wrote:

So with the nerfs to in combat runspeed and overall dps how exactly can you kill an opponent that doesn't want to stick around to get ganked?

How did you before when they just jumped on a Griffon, Horse, Carpet, Cloud, or just out right zoned?

[Image_Vain]

I have complete faith in the EQ2 DEV team. PlanetSide is just being left out to die, however, I "know" that the EQ2 DEV will do something good. I now SOE kinda screws up the MMOs they make, but I don't think that will happen here, I mean We have active forum mods, and the DEV team actually "posts" so that is great news, and the arrival of neriak and RoK, that in itself means they care.

[EQ2Playa432]

ElephantonRU wrote:

According to PVP test server feedback, resists are meaningless in PVP now. A warlock that was fighting people with high resists (60% and higher) on the test server is saying he had only 1 outright resist on 20 casts on average.

Meaningless? How bout we make it so CAs and autoattack randomly miss like resists.

[pharacyde]

Kalian@Nagafen wrote:

ElephantonRU wrote:

According to PVP test server feedback, resists are meaningless in PVP now. A warlock that was fighting people with high resists (60% and higher) on the test server is saying he had only 1 outright resist on 20 casts on average.

Meaningless? How bout we make it so CAs and autoattack randomly miss like resists.

If i have 40% avoidance it should miss 4 CA's out of 10, but CA's have a better chance to hit when you upgrade it to adept III or master I.  That's why the true avoidance will be way lower then 40%. It even gets lower if the one attacking you has offensive skills buffed. If you have 60% resist and you get hit with a master 1 nuke, the resistability is 33% harder for that nuke. So you basicly have 27% chance to get resisted. The warlock also has a +33disruption group buff which will lower the resist chance by even more.  On top of that if you spec for the right AA's you can debuff for around 1.5k poison as a warlock which will also reduce the resist rate.  Anyway all this will lower the resist change by a ton the way it should have been working for ages.

[Magius789]

Demron wrote:

ElephantonRU wrote:

Demron wrote:

It's people like you who don't understand the dynamics of the game and never will. You make up for your lack of skill with an ever increasing whining. Last night on my level 58 Ranger I NEVER used my two big attacks and in fact melee'd 60% of my fights and guess what? I won as many fights as I normally would have because what makes a Ranger and other scouts good is the initiative. You idiots don't understand how much more beneficial track/stealth are when used properly.

Until you learn that and how to counter that none of you "nerf scouts" whiners will ever be on an even playing field with us scouts. Funny thing is a scout can play any other class after playing a scout and do better against scouts than you whiners ever will, PERIOD!

I killed 28 people last night never once using my big attacks and most of the time I melee'd.

I want to thank everyone last night for their insignias and thank the future whiners now for the ones I take from you after the patch when you feel more confident to stick around allowing me to kill you before you come back whining for more nerfs because you can't learn how to beat a scout.

THANK YOU!

From what you said it is clear that you never even played a ranger. You cannot win the fight meleeing unless you fight naked AFK char. Saying that you won 60% of fight just meleing is total bull. We have just a few melee attacks and they are fairly weak.

Please don't come here acting as a ranger because you either not a ranger, or you don't play on PVP server, or you were fighting trash dressed noobs who were afk. I know my class too well to believe in crap like this. I can accept a lot of crazy stuff about rangers, but not winning a fair PVP fight with melee only. And 60% of 28 is 16... so you basically said you won 16 fights melee only? Wait, for those 16 fights - you must have encountered plate wearers which are almost impossible to kill even after you unload all your skill including? I would also like to see how you were killing any healer with only melee haha or SK (LOL). Or manashielded sorceror, or necro with lifetaps and lifeburn. Please stop your BS. The only idiot here is you, because you have no clue about rangers and thus don't act as one.

Also, cross-posting is against rules of this forum. You made sure your fake stuff is all over these forums, how smart.

Actually I'm Champion Demron (58 Ranger) on Venekor.. Look me up.

My Master I back attack does nearly 1000 damage on average, not to mention the follow up attack if you're fighting anyone but a scout and are lucky enough to get it off. I rarely if ever fight a healer, or most other scouts for obvious reasons you know. But using a Snare technique, and having spec'd fully in the Intelligence line, I can use up my CAs, and then snare, and flee from any plate class and come back when CAs are back up. Most of the time getting off multiple back attacks using both of my stuns.

Fights do not have to end quickly to win!

Against any class with Mana Shield you can watch it go off, snare, stun, run leading them on a wild goose chase and count 30 seconds only to stealth dropping their target and move back in for the kill.

Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean I didn't do it.

P.S. I also religiously use Pumice Stones to drop a lot of beneficial buffs from my targets.

It appears that most of the attacks you are describing are ranged CA's but you said you beat people up with our melee CA's.  I'm not calling you a liar but I do think you are the only ranger who says our melee CA's are strong enough to kill something.  Compare there dmg to our ranged dmg or any other melee class and you'll see our melee CA's are very sub par.