To Make SK's More Raid Viable.

Druisagoldengod · 06-10-2007, 04:00 PM

I was trying to think of a way to make SK's more raid viable. We are very good at some things during a raid such as snap agro with Death March, FDing an overzealous Wizard, off tanking, T2 dps and so on. However, all those things are not entirely needed and most raiding guilds just don't use an SK in favor of a brigand. Heck even Pallies at top end are great MT's as long as they use amends correctly. Here are some ideas (keep in mind being a jack of all trades and master of none and that I feel we only need one thing to make us more raid viable): A longer recast CoH Lesser amount than Troubs Power Regen of some type - this would fit in nicely for DPS SK's being in the mage group Something crazy such as with the more corpses on the ground the more damage we do - including friendly corpses Something like a heart and a shard only for health - ours could be dmg to mob and less health, pally could be straight health My favorite idea though... mini Manaburn. Our Wizard does about 90k on his, so I figure a 40k or 50k manaburn on the same recast timer would do nicely. That would push our dps much higher as well putting us in T1 to compete with the brigs and shashies. For the tanking aspect of it, blow your mana burn on a mob that gets away or at the start of a named fight, eat hearts and shards then get mana flowed and bam, you have enough power to continue tanking. I mean shoot, we are part mage yes? Oh but wait... then the pallies would start to whine. Well, how about balance it with giving them a Lifeburn. Half the damage I suppose just like the mini manaburn. Whats more, they can have heals on themselves to increase the damage. So what do yall think? If its a good idea hopefully the devs are watching =)

Luxun · 06-10-2007, 05:39 PM

All I need to out tank zerkers is to take away interrupts fro mmy spells. Make my spells not resistable by mobs ..atleast the taunts. Thats all we really need,...

Neiloch · 06-10-2007, 06:22 PM

Yeah the interrupt while tanking is a real pain. They should make it so the defense stance has a lot more focus or something so you won't get interrupted as easily. the Hate line in the EoF tree seems like a must if you plan on tanking. Probably going to put most of my extra points in EoF into hate as well.

AziBam · 06-10-2007, 07:42 PM

Neiloch wrote:

Yeah the interrupt while tanking is a real pain. They should make it so the defense stance has a lot more focus or something so you won't get interrupted as easily. the Hate line in the EoF tree seems like a must if you plan on tanking. Probably going to put most of my extra points in EoF into hate as well.

^^ That's a great idea. Also, perhaps a castable buff that would increase focus and ordination (despoil anyone?). Recast similar to DM. Duration 30 seconds to a minute. (Or in EQ2 times 36 seconds to 1min12 sec) SMILEY

Pre-pull, cast which boosts your focus and ordination by 30-40ish. Make your pull, buff is running giving you time to get taunts off along with despoil plus several good spell attacks to build aggro. A suggestion I made a while back was that Everlasting Hunger be made to proc off both melee and hostile spells. It wouldn't be earth shattering in terms of balance but spell procs are harder to come by than boosts to melee damage. This would make us a desireable addition with casters. Anytime you have a class that can increase the group dps there is a good reason to find a spot for them. For tanking (raids) I think our hate/aggro is fine. Any tank out there must have some hate boost/transfer to keep a raid force in control. The area we seem to lack is the ability to take the big hits. Our taps just don't keep up. Despoil is great...when it lands. I'm not our normal MT but through some plan changes I pulled the drake last night in DT with it. Not surprisingly, it resisted. No mit boost for me for opening of the fight. I can just try again after I've cycled taunts and hope that it lands. Another topic that has been discussed before (with many voices on both sides) is that the WIS boost we have with DEF stance does not give us the same benefit of the +parry that warriors have in my opinion. Wis is decent for resists but most fights you tailor your gear to the correct resists already anyway. This means that the WIS boost is just not as valuable as increasing the number of physical attacks that can be avoided completely via parry.

Druisagoldengod · 06-10-2007, 07:57 PM

Well, I am of the opinion that SK's should NOT be MTing end game raids. They can sure, but a guard can better period. One way of attacking this is to say make us more tank viable. While this is sure to be a valid argument, I was thinking of making our dps T1 to make us more raid viable. When I am raid MTing I never have issues, so I cannot really relate to the things you are mentioning. However, now that I think about it... boosting 1 toons dps to T1 (the SK) compaired to boosting the entire raids dps by a second dispatch still doesn't cut the mustard does it... hmmm. I still like the idea of a mini manaburn. =)

AziBam · 06-10-2007, 08:12 PM

Yeah, I just don't see us getting any huge boost to dps really. Tweaks to dps yes but not a major upswing as we would be pretty imbalanced then. I really don't think any fighter should be on par for damage with a true dps class. Several of the fighter classes dish it out pretty well but that would be crazy dps and would scream nerf. SMILEY

I just can't envision us getting anything like manaburn. Which is why I suggested the group buff proc. Trying to find something that is of raid benefit but not imbalancing for the class. /shrug. p.s. Don't get me wrong, what you are saying would rock! I just don't think it would happen. I would also love stoneskin like a guard has but just the same I don't think it will happen either. I also agree that overall a guard has a bigger bag of tools for being MT. I'm just looking at the whole raid picture, both dps and tanking and suggested what I thought might be of benefit to our class in both roles that we might fit into.

Luxun · 06-10-2007, 11:55 PM

We will never be the kind of tanks guardians are. I can live with that, however hwy is that a zerker can out-tank while they are much liek the SK class are suppose to be dps/tanks ?

Simple answer ..resists and interrupt issues. They don't get interrupted, they don't have to deal with spell resists, which is why they can tank better than us and build aggro better.

Only tweak the SK class needs is to make us not be interruptable ..atleast in pve only. Everything else we have the means of being a great MT for high end raids much liek zerkers are.

Druisagoldengod · 06-11-2007, 01:07 AM

Hmm. Great points. Fighters shouldn't out dps scouts. And that is what would happen if they gave us even a mini manaburn. The non interrupts would be great for tanking, but you hit it on the money by saying that its their disease check that mitigates most of our damage, so uping our dps that way would be minimal unless in the MT position. So to better illustrate the issue, here is my dilemma. With only 24 slots on a raid class balance is a must. So when looking at what classes bring to the table it is obvious that if you have to choose be tween a second Brigand, or dirge for that matter, this would better the raid much more than what we bring. So, my guild just picked up our second brig... so though I put out 1500ish dps guess who is first on the chopping block? Thats right, our lovable SK... me. Looking at helping the raid as a whole, increasing our dps alone wont cut it as Azi said. There goes my theory heh. Could the Everlasting Hunger proc be that beneficial to the casters? Thinking back to another one of my ideas about a power regen... G4 is never out of power as long as our Troub is there. Dang... this is tougher than I had thought!

Luxun · 06-11-2007, 01:48 AM

Amondus@Permafrost wrote:

Hmm. Great points. Fighters shouldn't out dps scouts. And that is what would happen if they gave us even a mini manaburn. The non interrupts would be great for tanking, but you hit it on the money by saying that its their disease check that mitigates most of our damage, so uping our dps that way would be minimal unless in the MT position. So to better illustrate the issue, here is my dilemma. With only 24 slots on a raid class balance is a must. So when looking at what classes bring to the table it is obvious that if you have to choose be tween a second Brigand, or dirge for that matter, this would better the raid much more than what we bring. So, my guild just picked up our second brig... so though I put out 1500ish dps guess who is first on the chopping block? Thats right, our lovable SK... me. Looking at helping the raid as a whole, increasing our dps alone wont cut it as Azi said. There goes my theory heh. Could the Everlasting Hunger proc be that beneficial to the casters? Thinking back to another one of my ideas about a power regen... G4 is never out of power as long as our Troub is there. Dang... this is tougher than I had thought!

You are absolutely correct. Even though SKs have some nice toys to bring to a raid, their package is never good enough to replace a extra dirge or a extra dps class.

In all honesty from the way I see it the fighter classes are suppose to be tanks. So are the brawlers. Problem is the classes aren't balanced enugh so that all the tanks can actually tank on raids. People can't say "well a SK is for instance tanking and zerker/guardian for raid tanking" thats just crap, EQ2 requires you to raid in order to get better gear. If your class doesn't have a solid spot on a raid, then you are useless in t7. Simpel as that.

SKs can tank, I do very decent with my SK, but the reason we arenot known to be a ealible tank is because of our interrupts. DEVs seriously need to look into the SK interrupt issue. If they make a solution for that, and make our taunts unresistable like zerkers, then SKs will be able to tank.

We shouldn't wish for this, we are entitled to get this, because we ARE a tank class. Only if the DEVs would stop trying to fix somehting that is not broke (look athte pvp changes ...most of is going to make more problems than solve any) and they would actually look into the classes that truely need fixes, we would get some love. However for now we have to deal with being handicapped even more with the PT nerf .....Paladins are now 100% better than we are.

CHIMPNOODLE. · 06-12-2007, 09:53 AM

SKs can tank, I do very decent with my SK, but the reason we arenot known to be a ealible tank is because of our interrupts. DEVs seriously need to look into the SK interrupt issue. If they make a solution for that, and make our taunts unresistable like zerkers, then SKs will be able to tank.

SKs tank very well. Interrupts don't cause any big issues.

Luxun · 06-12-2007, 05:09 PM

CHIMPNOODLE. wrote:

SKs can tank, I do very decent with my SK, but the reason we arenot known to be a ealible tank is because of our interrupts. DEVs seriously need to look into the SK interrupt issue. If they make a solution for that, and make our taunts unresistable like zerkers, then SKs will be able to tank.
SKs tank very well. Interrupts don't cause any big issues.

are you kidding me ??? have you tried being the MT on a x4 raid ? You have got to be joking if yo usay interrupts don't bother us. It is becuse of interrupts that we can't dps fast enough and thus build aggro fast enoug hto keep up, it is exactly why zerker are the better dps/tank than SKs are.

CHIMPNOODLE. · 06-12-2007, 06:50 PM

Luxun wrote:

CHIMPNOODLE. wrote:
SKs can tank, I do very decent with my SK, but the reason we arenot known to be a ealible tank is because of our interrupts. DEVs seriously need to look into the SK interrupt issue. If they make a solution for that, and make our taunts unresistable like zerkers, then SKs will be able to tank.
SKs tank very well. Interrupts don't cause any big issues.
are you kidding me ??? have you tried being the MT on a x4 raid ? You have got to be joking if yo usay interrupts don't bother us. It is becuse of interrupts that we can't dps fast enough and thus build aggro fast enoug hto keep up, it is exactly why zerker are the better dps/tank than SKs are.

That's pretty much all I do with my SK SMILEY

You're information is innacurate.

Dead Knight · 06-12-2007, 07:07 PM

CHIMPNOODLE. wrote:

Luxun wrote:
CHIMPNOODLE. wrote:
SKs can tank, I do very decent with my SK, but the reason we arenot known to be a ealible tank is because of our interrupts. DEVs seriously need to look into the SK interrupt issue. If they make a solution for that, and make our taunts unresistable like zerkers, then SKs will be able to tank.
SKs tank very well. Interrupts don't cause any big issues.
are you kidding me ??? have you tried being the MT on a x4 raid ? You have got to be joking if yo usay interrupts don't bother us. It is becuse of interrupts that we can't dps fast enough and thus build aggro fast enoug hto keep up, it is exactly why zerker are the better dps/tank than SKs are.
That's pretty much all I do with my SK
You're information is innacurate.

QFE

holypaladin28 · 06-17-2007, 09:04 PM

Dead Knight wrote:

CHIMPNOODLE. wrote:
Luxun wrote:
CHIMPNOODLE. wrote:
SKs can tank, I do very decent with my SK, but the reason we arenot known to be a ealible tank is because of our interrupts. DEVs seriously need to look into the SK interrupt issue. If they make a solution for that, and make our taunts unresistable like zerkers, then SKs will be able to tank.
SKs tank very well. Interrupts don't cause any big issues.
are you kidding me ??? have you tried being the MT on a x4 raid ? You have got to be joking if yo usay interrupts don't bother us. It is becuse of interrupts that we can't dps fast enough and thus build aggro fast enoug hto keep up, it is exactly why zerker are the better dps/tank than SKs are.
That's pretty much all I do with my SK
You're information is innacurate.
QFE

excuse luxun he has never done a t7 raid and only knowledge he has is T6

SK's can tank fine the str line with the hate increaser and the cast timer 10 percent bonus is really good. its a mastter of calling assits and not having an over zelous wizzy fusion on pull. i have easily tanked labs dt lycum first two names in freethinkers (tanked the third but reachingrot kills stupid people) i hvae also tanked most of mmc 2x epics and those guys are no joke with close to 2 million hp on some of them for a 2x. also tanked first 2 names in mmcis. never a problem in fact i think we have an advantage the self heals off every attack helps a little with reaver line.

[Removed for Content] i respeced my AA for max str and sta and even after losing the crit for spell damage i doing more dps then i was before. the haste is good for when we wait for ca's to pop back up also

Ikuri · 06-17-2007, 11:14 PM

Kalgore@Vox wrote:

Dead Knight wrote:
CHIMPNOODLE. wrote:
Luxun wrote:
CHIMPNOODLE. wrote:
SKs can tank, I do very decent with my SK, but the reason we arenot known to be a ealible tank is because of our interrupts. DEVs seriously need to look into the SK interrupt issue. If they make a solution for that, and make our taunts unresistable like zerkers, then SKs will be able to tank.
SKs tank very well. Interrupts don't cause any big issues.
are you kidding me ??? have you tried being the MT on a x4 raid ? You have got to be joking if yo usay interrupts don't bother us. It is becuse of interrupts that we can't dps fast enough and thus build aggro fast enoug hto keep up, it is exactly why zerker are the better dps/tank than SKs are.
That's pretty much all I do with my SK
You're information is innacurate.
QFE
excuse luxun he has never done a t7 raid and only knowledge he has is T6
SK's can tank fine the str line with the hate increaser and the cast timer 10 percent bonus is really good. its a mastter of calling assits and not having an over zelous wizzy fusion on pull. i have easily tanked labs dt lycum first two names in freethinkers (tanked the third but reachingrot kills stupid people) i hvae also tanked most of mmc 2x epics and those guys are no joke with close to 2 million hp on some of them for a 2x. also tanked first 2 names in mmcis. never a problem in fact i think we have an advantage the self heals off every attack helps a little with reaver line.
[I cannot control my vocabulary] i respeced my AA for max str and sta and even after losing the crit for spell damage i doing more dps then i was before. the haste is good for when we wait for ca's to pop back up also

Kalgore do you have to go every where trying to bash me to make peopel think you are actually a SK ? For peope ltyat don't know, this joke used to be a Paladin who led a guild on Vox to try to drop my master title on my main, ended up hading me a master title on my alt and got me to 4 kills away from overseer before he finalyl gave up surrendered to freeport ...So his feelings are a little hurt.

Also Kalgore have you successfully tanked Freethinkers onyour SK ? Have you even MT any of the T7 zones successfully ? i didn't think so so shut-the-F-up.

You come here talking about the SK class is like a [Removed for Content] kid from spcial olympics giving advice to David Beckham. Just the shut the F up and go back to your hole clown.

Luxun · 06-17-2007, 11:50 PM

Hey Kalgore atleast I have successfully tanked most of the T7 zones and got a Overseer pvp title. Shouldn't you be busy cybering hollyhood (better known as hollywhore) on EFP docks insted of being here trying to make yourself look like a SK ?

Why don't go back to Qeynos and run a guild again ..i wanna get Overseer on my brigand too.

holypaladin28 · 06-18-2007, 04:11 AM

Luxun wrote:

Hey Kalgore atleast I have successfully tanked most of the T7 zones and got a Overseer pvp title. Shouldn't you be busy cybering hollyhood (better known as hollywhore) on EFP docks insted of being here trying to make yourself look like a SK ?
Why don't go back to Qeynos and run a guild again ..i wanna get Overseer on my brigand too.

hahah tell everyone about your title again and not even in pvp discussion.

you should tell them how you got banned and that title on station players went from over seer to master and how your gear got stripped for farming if you are going to tell people about your title

you have tanked zero raid zones as i knew what your guild was doing i have tanked them and killed the mobs i tanked. sk's can tank jusat need some tools to kaie it happen aka have asin that parses 2k dps in your group and most of the time you dont have a problem

Vydar · 06-18-2007, 04:26 AM

Ikuri wrote:

Kalgore@Vox wrote:
Dead Knight wrote:
CHIMPNOODLE. wrote:
Luxun wrote:
CHIMPNOODLE. wrote:
SKs can tank, I do very decent with my SK, but the reason we arenot known to be a ealible tank is because of our interrupts. DEVs seriously need to look into the SK interrupt issue. If they make a solution for that, and make our taunts unresistable like zerkers, then SKs will be able to tank.
SKs tank very well. Interrupts don't cause any big issues.
are you kidding me ??? have you tried being the MT on a x4 raid ? You have got to be joking if yo usay interrupts don't bother us. It is becuse of interrupts that we can't dps fast enough and thus build aggro fast enoug hto keep up, it is exactly why zerker are the better dps/tank than SKs are.
That's pretty much all I do with my SK
You're information is innacurate.
QFE
excuse luxun he has never done a t7 raid and only knowledge he has is T6
SK's can tank fine the str line with the hate increaser and the cast timer 10 percent bonus is really good. its a mastter of calling assits and not having an over zelous wizzy fusion on pull. i have easily tanked labs dt lycum first two names in freethinkers (tanked the third but reachingrot kills stupid people) i hvae also tanked most of mmc 2x epics and those guys are no joke with close to 2 million hp on some of them for a 2x. also tanked first 2 names in mmcis. never a problem in fact i think we have an advantage the self heals off every attack helps a little with reaver line.
[I cannot control my vocabulary] i respeced my AA for max str and sta and even after losing the crit for spell damage i doing more dps then i was before. the haste is good for when we wait for ca's to pop back up also
Kalgore do you have to go every where trying to bash me to make peopel think you are actually a SK ? For peope ltyat don't know, this joke used to be a Paladin who led a guild on Vox to try to drop my master title on my main, ended up hading me a master title on my alt and got me to 4 kills away from overseer before he finalyl gave up surrendered to freeport ...So his feelings are a little hurt.
Also Kalgore have you successfully tanked Freethinkers onyour SK ? Have you even MT any of the T7 zones successfully ? i didn't think so so shut-the-F-up.
You come here talking about the SK class is like a [I cannot control my vocabulary] kid from spcial olympics giving advice to David Beckham. Just the shut the F up and go back to your hole clown.

He wasn't bashing. Others said you provided inaccurate information. He explained why. He kicks [I cannot control my vocabulary] as an SK. He pulls stuff off that other tanks we have (Lazzuras, who's number one or two for most HP on the server and is probably the best geared tank on Vox) have trouble with... such as the MMC x2. That is a tough as hell zone. He holds aggro with no issue (and I'm an assassin who dps's an average of 1800 on raids, he holds aggro even with my burst damage), and he's actually respected among players on our server. He's a huge contribution to our guild and is more of a help than just about anyone else, with his knowledge and his abilities on his character. He makes what I always thought was a pretty useless class kick [I cannot control my vocabulary], and it's pretty impressive to be honest. I played an SK to 53 before discovering how right everyone was about its lack of utility, and played the other toons I found more fun. I may take up this challenge again in the future if I get bored enough. In the interest of not "bashing you everywhere you go" and appearing to stoop to your level, I'll refrain from talking about your "achievements" or lack thereof. He just suggested a nice aa line up. I'm not sure how that qualifies as talking about the SK class like it is a special child- who are all offended by your comment btw, I heard some Oda Clan members crying from their short bus. So please, before you go and talk down to Kalgore, please actually get yourself to the level that you can look down. Right now, you don't even have a t7 SK or an overseer. So... yeah.

Vydar · 06-18-2007, 04:32 AM

Luxun wrote:

Hey Kalgore atleast I have successfully tanked most of the T7 zones and got a Overseer pvp title. Shouldn't you be busy cybering hollyhood (better known as hollywhore) on EFP docks insted of being here trying to make yourself look like a SK ?
Why don't go back to Qeynos and run a guild again ..i wanna get Overseer on my brigand too.

What T7 zones have you tanked successfully? Are we talking about raid zones here or are you referring to say... Acadechism?

Luxun · 06-18-2007, 05:02 AM

Vydar@Vox wrote:

Luxun wrote:
Hey Kalgore atleast I have successfully tanked most of the T7 zones and got a Overseer pvp title. Shouldn't you be busy cybering hollyhood (better known as hollywhore) on EFP docks insted of being here trying to make yourself look like a SK ?
Why don't go back to Qeynos and run a guild again ..i wanna get Overseer on my brigand too.
What T7 zones have you tanked successfully? Are we talking about raid zones here or are you referring to say... Acadechism?

You Vydar how long have you been on T7 ? Just because Kalgore is in your guild doesn't make what he says a fact. He is known on Vox to talk out of his rear-end all the time. The whole idea of "backing up friends" is all cute and sweet, but if you are going to take side with one of your less intelligent friends, then be expected to be put i nthe same category as him.

I have successfully tanked nearly all of KoS raid zones, haven;t been able to get to EoF stuff. I can sit here and tell every SK that brags about not beign interrupted while tankign that he is full of himself. There are SKs on pvp boards who actually know their class and have been i nthe sitation before. I was stating that a SK cannot compete with a zerker when it coems to tanking 99% of raid zones BECAUSE of the fact that we get interrupted and they don't. so we can't hold aggro as good as they can (though is it possible to MT as a SK ..absolutely ..just a lot harder requires better aggro management fro mthe raid which in some cases is not possible) The arguement is that why a dps/tank class like zerker out tank SKs when we aresuppose to be the same, just more spell orianted ?

Now if Kalgore would spend less time making lies and cybering holly he might get to learn his class better. Bottom line here is, Kalgore is a joke, you can ask any SK that is not in his guild. I got master on 2 toons, because he was tyring to lead a pvp guild lol ... Facts are facts, and like i said Vydar its cute and sweet that you lie kto back up your friend, but when oyu chosoe to back up a not so intellgenet friend's lies and BS ..expect to be put i nthe same category as him.

Vydar · 06-18-2007, 06:19 AM

Luxun wrote:

Vydar@Vox wrote:
Luxun wrote:
Hey Kalgore atleast I have successfully tanked most of the T7 zones and got a Overseer pvp title. Shouldn't you be busy cybering hollyhood (better known as hollywhore) on EFP docks insted of being here trying to make yourself look like a SK ?
Why don't go back to Qeynos and run a guild again ..i wanna get Overseer on my brigand too.
What T7 zones have you tanked successfully? Are we talking about raid zones here or are you referring to say... Acadechism?
You Vydar how long have you been on T7 ? Just because Kalgore is in your guild doesn't make what he says a fact. He is known on Vox to talk out of his rear-end all the time. The whole idea of "backing up friends" is all cute and sweet, but if you are going to take side with one of your less intelligent friends, then be expected to be put i nthe same category as him.
I have successfully tanked nearly all of KoS raid zones, haven;t been able to get to EoF stuff. I can sit here and tell every SK that brags about not beign interrupted while tankign that he is full of himself. There are SKs on pvp boards who actually know their class and have been i nthe sitation before. I was stating that a SK cannot compete with a zerker when it coems to tanking 99% of raid zones BECAUSE of the fact that we get interrupted and they don't. so we can't hold aggro as good as they can (though is it possible to MT as a SK ..absolutely ..just a lot harder requires better aggro management fro mthe raid which in some cases is not possible) The arguement is that why a dps/tank class like zerker out tank SKs when we aresuppose to be the same, just more spell orianted ?
Now if Kalgore would spend less time making lies and cybering holly he might get to learn his class better. Bottom line here is, Kalgore is a joke, you can ask any SK that is not in his guild. I got master on 2 toons, because he was tyring to lead a pvp guild lol ... Facts are facts, and like i said Vydar its cute and sweet that you lie kto back up your friend, but when oyu chosoe to back up a not so intellgenet friend's lies and BS ..expect to be put i nthe same category as him.

I'm not just backing up a friend, its just fun to refute the BS you spew SMILEY

I didn't say what he says is fact. I've told him to [Removed for Content] many times myself lol. I've been in T7 for about 2 months, maybe 3. And I'm doing much better than many of those who I've seen in T7 for much longer than I because I learn my class, I learn my zones, I learn the game, etc. I don't mind being lumped in the "same category" as Kalgore tbh. There are only maybe 5 people I know of who hate him, and a LOT more that think you're full of it.

Nakash · 06-18-2007, 08:51 AM

Those of you who are finished with flaming each other may be intrested to try the few thinks out.

- Get Items that raise Fokus (which is the skill that checks if you get interrupted by an atttack)

- Push your avoidence, what does not hit you can not interrupt you.

- Push your HP, more HP pushes the amount that reaver Heals in Situations spells and taunts are chained.

- There are ways to increase your casting speed, faster casting Speed also means less interruppts. (KOS STR End Ability, Some Avatar Items, Time Compression from Illusionists )

- Improve thinks that let gain you aggro while you are Stuned (Shoulder Spikes, maybe Shield Spikes, Hate Line starter)

Getting interrupted is a lesser Problem in T7 Raids, there are many other controll effects that make youre life much more harder.

In early T6 the Crusader Class could not be interrupted. This has been taken from us away shortly after upcomming of the PVP Server. I didnt liked it at this point cause it also take the ability away to cast on the run. That makes pulls and building aggro during the Pull difficult at this time, but aggro was a different story at this time. Now the ability to use Bows makes it up if you mix it with your CAs that you can use on the run.

Last but not least a minor upgrade in DPS, an major upgrade to the Mana Sieve ability, and one or two nice tools would be an nice increase. But all over all we can't complain in the moment.

To the point of the Zerker DPS i have to say that the Damage of the Buckler Line is imbalanced in the moment. No Tank should be able to be on par with pure DDs. We will see what changed after LU 36 and 37 are done.

Regards

CHIMPNOODLE. · 06-18-2007, 09:52 AM

Azzaroth has some good tips there for people having problems with interrupts. Bottom line is, interrupts are a non-issue for raid tanking SKs though. As far as zerkers "out-tanking" SKs because their aggro is "better" from DPS is innacurate as well. SKs do not have any more or less trouble overall with aggro. With a decent raid setup neither class has issues.

Controlor · 06-18-2007, 03:37 PM

Kalgore@Vox wrote:

(snip) ignoring the flame
speaking of faster cast does anyone know if the change to crusader hate line adds 10 percent to recast making it 20 or is soe giving us something we already had. cause if it does add 10 percent more that will be a big leap in aggro handling. also get the cloak of unrest procs 1,8 times a minute lasts 30 seconds and it reduces my cast times another 10 percent so right now when my cloak procs im pushing 20 percent reduced recast timers and if the change to str end abilty is a good one that will be 30 percent most of the time which would be friggen awesome
as far as intreuprts i hardly have a problem and thats mostly when i get fluxxed by a mob my focus is 340 if that helps anyone.

As i have stated on a seperate SK thread. The end line for Str was always improperly typed. It should have been 10% increase reuse time NOT recovery time. Reuse and Recovery are 2 different things entirely. Reuse is how fast you reuse spells (obviously). Recovery is effecting GLOBAL cool down timers. This timer is hidden behiend your spells and is not displayed UNTIL you get something that lowers the time. Illusionists are the perfect example. Time Compression decreases casing time reuse time and recovery time. It decreases recovery time by 50%. I had tested it out once on a shaman to confirm that recovery is "hidden". First i didnt have the buff on him asked the stats for the spell (well the casting reuse recovery times). He responded there was no recovery time. I cast TC on him and asked again this time he reported recovery time as 0.33 seconds. Someone on the other thread also posted the fixed text to have reuse and recovery seperate. This 10% increase is making your globabl cool downs go by faster thats all it is not stacking with a previous ability. That is all

Squigglle · 06-23-2007, 07:47 PM

maybe they could give sks a little group power syphon? and maybe a skill that can stop enemy aoe's for a short while?

Pitt Hammerfi · 06-23-2007, 09:28 PM

Sk's have no issues tanking T7 raids at all, sure a guardian is a bit easier to keep alive, but were almost better at keeping hate once we have it with the right group setup.

Death march on the pull, will guarentee you have the mob long enough to generate your aggro, and i havent even gone down the hate lines, i bet a hate specced SK would do very well.

Druisagoldengod · 06-24-2007, 12:48 AM

Some additional thoughts, For MTing, hate is definitely not an issue if you have a disciplined raid force, hate speced, and right hate transfer toons. If the rumored hate cap changes occur, not the ones recently repealed on test, this may become an issue. And by the looks of it we all agree that SK's can MT, but if you have a guard - stick with them. For DPS we should not be out dpsing scouts or mages as that is their role on raids. So, for a guild who has a guard MT, and ample dps... we are stuck in the situation of why bring the SK. Some of yall I think are hittin on the answer by giving us a better group proc. I would think regen but thats the bard's job and we are too much like the bard as it is heh. Or... what about something that will coincide with dispatch such as a temporary mana increase buff. What this would do is say when dispatch is called then the wizard does mana burn then when their power is nearing the low end, pop this spell and then can burn a little more yes? You could balance the pally by giving them the same thing except with life keep them in the MT group for some nice saves. Then again, they still get amends. Bastages =)

Bruener · 06-24-2007, 11:06 PM

Well this topic has been an issue for as long as I can remember, and quite a while ago I made a post on eq2flames on what I thought they should do, not just for SK's but for fighters in general to make them more raid viable when not playing the role of MT and ST.

I recently started a thread about fighters recieving utility for when they are not tanking.... Something that I could really see benefitting SK's might be some kind of hate transfer. Something that is as good as an assassins hate transfer so that it would make it worth having us in the MT group when we are not tanking. There was a time when our mitigation buff was considered a real nice buff but since the diminishing returns of mitigation came into effect this is a useless ability. So, maybe lose the mitigation buff, give us some kind of real good hate transfer and beef up the avoidance buff we can give the MT. Unless they really look at giving us some better utility there is not a lot of reason to bring a SK on a raid...and I know a lot of you are feeling this, hell all fighters are feeling this. Optimum raid set-up usually consists of what...2 fighters, maybe 3 on some encountes, 6-8 healers, 2-4 bards, 2 chanters, and the rest pure DPS. Bards have too much utility, healers bring too much to the table most of the time...no brainer that some of those abilities need to be given to fighters to make them more viable for those raid spots. Give some fighters real nice buffs to put on the MT and ST, give us utility so that we are not given sympathy spots in a raid. And for all of you out there that like the [Removed for Content] status quo (probably DPS classes and bards) go *bleep* yourself. Fighters have been getting the shaft when it comes to participation on raids since launch, and it is only getting worse.

Collum · 06-25-2007, 03:32 PM

Sooo...

What I am reading in this thread is that SKs are not really wanted in raids and are among the first dropped to pick up other classes, for more balance in raids?

If the answer to this is, yes... please let me know so I can re-roll....

Thanks

CHIMPNOODLE. · 06-25-2007, 04:02 PM

No. The gist of it is that if the MT or OT is not already an SK, and there is little need for a third based on the targets....then SKs, as all the tank classes, are more likely to be dropped first.

06-10-2007, 06:22 PM	#3
Neiloch Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,430	Yeah the interrupt while tanking is a real pain. They should make it so the defense stance has a lot more focus or something so you won't get interrupted as easily. the Hate line in the EoF tree seems like a must if you plan on tanking. Probably going to put most of my extra points in EoF into hate as well. __________________

06-10-2007, 07:42 PM	#4
AziBam Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 682	Neiloch wrote: Yeah the interrupt while tanking is a real pain. They should make it so the defense stance has a lot more focus or something so you won't get interrupted as easily. the Hate line in the EoF tree seems like a must if you plan on tanking. Probably going to put most of my extra points in EoF into hate as well. ^^ That's a great idea. Also, perhaps a castable buff that would increase focus and ordination (despoil anyone?). Recast similar to DM. Duration 30 seconds to a minute. (Or in EQ2 times 36 seconds to 1min12 sec) Pre-pull, cast which boosts your focus and ordination by 30-40ish. Make your pull, buff is running giving you time to get taunts off along with despoil plus several good spell attacks to build aggro. A suggestion I made a while back was that Everlasting Hunger be made to proc off both melee and hostile spells. It wouldn't be earth shattering in terms of balance but spell procs are harder to come by than boosts to melee damage. This would make us a desireable addition with casters. Anytime you have a class that can increase the group dps there is a good reason to find a spot for them. For tanking (raids) I think our hate/aggro is fine. Any tank out there must have some hate boost/transfer to keep a raid force in control. The area we seem to lack is the ability to take the big hits. Our taps just don't keep up. Despoil is great...when it lands. I'm not our normal MT but through some plan changes I pulled the drake last night in DT with it. Not surprisingly, it resisted. No mit boost for me for opening of the fight. I can just try again after I've cycled taunts and hope that it lands. Another topic that has been discussed before (with many voices on both sides) is that the WIS boost we have with DEF stance does not give us the same benefit of the +parry that warriors have in my opinion. Wis is decent for resists but most fights you tailor your gear to the correct resists already anyway. This means that the WIS boost is just not as valuable as increasing the number of physical attacks that can be avoided completely via parry.

06-10-2007, 08:12 PM	#6
AziBam Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 682	Yeah, I just don't see us getting any huge boost to dps really. Tweaks to dps yes but not a major upswing as we would be pretty imbalanced then. I really don't think any fighter should be on par for damage with a true dps class. Several of the fighter classes dish it out pretty well but that would be crazy dps and would scream nerf. I just can't envision us getting anything like manaburn. Which is why I suggested the group buff proc. Trying to find something that is of raid benefit but not imbalancing for the class. /shrug. p.s. Don't get me wrong, what you are saying would rock! I just don't think it would happen. I would also love stoneskin like a guard has but just the same I don't think it will happen either. I also agree that overall a guard has a bigger bag of tools for being MT. I'm just looking at the whole raid picture, both dps and tanking and suggested what I thought might be of benefit to our class in both roles that we might fit into.

06-11-2007, 01:48 AM	#9
Luxun Lord Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 64	Amondus@Permafrost wrote: Hmm. Great points. Fighters shouldn't out dps scouts. And that is what would happen if they gave us even a mini manaburn. The non interrupts would be great for tanking, but you hit it on the money by saying that its their disease check that mitigates most of our damage, so uping our dps that way would be minimal unless in the MT position. So to better illustrate the issue, here is my dilemma. With only 24 slots on a raid class balance is a must. So when looking at what classes bring to the table it is obvious that if you have to choose be tween a second Brigand, or dirge for that matter, this would better the raid much more than what we bring. So, my guild just picked up our second brig... so though I put out 1500ish dps guess who is first on the chopping block? Thats right, our lovable SK... me. Looking at helping the raid as a whole, increasing our dps alone wont cut it as Azi said. There goes my theory heh. Could the Everlasting Hunger proc be that beneficial to the casters? Thinking back to another one of my ideas about a power regen... G4 is never out of power as long as our Troub is there. Dang... this is tougher than I had thought! You are absolutely correct. Even though SKs have some nice toys to bring to a raid, their package is never good enough to replace a extra dirge or a extra dps class. In all honesty from the way I see it the fighter classes are suppose to be tanks. So are the brawlers. Problem is the classes aren't balanced enugh so that all the tanks can actually tank on raids. People can't say "well a SK is for instance tanking and zerker/guardian for raid tanking" thats just crap, EQ2 requires you to raid in order to get better gear. If your class doesn't have a solid spot on a raid, then you are useless in t7. Simpel as that. SKs can tank, I do very decent with my SK, but the reason we arenot known to be a ealible tank is because of our interrupts. DEVs seriously need to look into the SK interrupt issue. If they make a solution for that, and make our taunts unresistable like zerkers, then SKs will be able to tank. We shouldn't wish for this, we are entitled to get this, because we ARE a tank class. Only if the DEVs would stop trying to fix somehting that is not broke (look athte pvp changes ...most of is going to make more problems than solve any) and they would actually look into the classes that truely need fixes, we would get some love. However for now we have to deal with being handicapped even more with the PT nerf .....Paladins are now 100% better than we are.

06-12-2007, 09:53 AM	#10
CHIMPNOODLE. Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 923	SKs can tank, I do very decent with my SK, but the reason we arenot known to be a ealible tank is because of our interrupts. DEVs seriously need to look into the SK interrupt issue. If they make a solution for that, and make our taunts unresistable like zerkers, then SKs will be able to tank. SKs tank very well. Interrupts don't cause any big issues. __________________

06-10-2007, 04:00 PM	#1
Druisagoldengod Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 90	I was trying to think of a way to make SK's more raid viable. We are very good at some things during a raid such as snap agro with Death March, FDing an overzealous Wizard, off tanking, T2 dps and so on. However, all those things are not entirely needed and most raiding guilds just don't use an SK in favor of a brigand. Heck even Pallies at top end are great MT's as long as they use amends correctly. Here are some ideas (keep in mind being a jack of all trades and master of none and that I feel we only need one thing to make us more raid viable): A longer recast CoH Lesser amount than Troubs Power Regen of some type - this would fit in nicely for DPS SK's being in the mage group Something crazy such as with the more corpses on the ground the more damage we do - including friendly corpses Something like a heart and a shard only for health - ours could be dmg to mob and less health, pally could be straight health My favorite idea though... mini Manaburn. Our Wizard does about 90k on his, so I figure a 40k or 50k manaburn on the same recast timer would do nicely. That would push our dps much higher as well putting us in T1 to compete with the brigs and shashies. For the tanking aspect of it, blow your mana burn on a mob that gets away or at the start of a named fight, eat hearts and shards then get mana flowed and bam, you have enough power to continue tanking. I mean shoot, we are part mage yes? Oh but wait... then the pallies would start to whine. Well, how about balance it with giving them a Lifeburn. Half the damage I suppose just like the mini manaburn. Whats more, they can have heals on themselves to increase the damage. So what do yall think? If its a good idea hopefully the devs are watching =)

06-10-2007, 05:39 PM	#2
Luxun Lord Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 64	All I need to out tank zerkers is to take away interrupts fro mmy spells. Make my spells not resistable by mobs ..atleast the taunts. Thats all we really need,...

06-10-2007, 07:57 PM	#5
Druisagoldengod Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 90	Well, I am of the opinion that SK's should NOT be MTing end game raids. They can sure, but a guard can better period. One way of attacking this is to say make us more tank viable. While this is sure to be a valid argument, I was thinking of making our dps T1 to make us more raid viable. When I am raid MTing I never have issues, so I cannot really relate to the things you are mentioning. However, now that I think about it... boosting 1 toons dps to T1 (the SK) compaired to boosting the entire raids dps by a second dispatch still doesn't cut the mustard does it... hmmm. I still like the idea of a mini manaburn. =)

06-10-2007, 11:55 PM	#7
Luxun Lord Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 64	We will never be the kind of tanks guardians are. I can live with that, however hwy is that a zerker can out-tank while they are much liek the SK class are suppose to be dps/tanks ? Simple answer ..resists and interrupt issues. They don't get interrupted, they don't have to deal with spell resists, which is why they can tank better than us and build aggro better. Only tweak the SK class needs is to make us not be interruptable ..atleast in pve only. Everything else we have the means of being a great MT for high end raids much liek zerkers are.

06-11-2007, 01:07 AM	#8
Druisagoldengod Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 90	Hmm. Great points. Fighters shouldn't out dps scouts. And that is what would happen if they gave us even a mini manaburn. The non interrupts would be great for tanking, but you hit it on the money by saying that its their disease check that mitigates most of our damage, so uping our dps that way would be minimal unless in the MT position. So to better illustrate the issue, here is my dilemma. With only 24 slots on a raid class balance is a must. So when looking at what classes bring to the table it is obvious that if you have to choose be tween a second Brigand, or dirge for that matter, this would better the raid much more than what we bring. So, my guild just picked up our second brig... so though I put out 1500ish dps guess who is first on the chopping block? Thats right, our lovable SK... me. Looking at helping the raid as a whole, increasing our dps alone wont cut it as Azi said. There goes my theory heh. Could the Everlasting Hunger proc be that beneficial to the casters? Thinking back to another one of my ideas about a power regen... G4 is never out of power as long as our Troub is there. Dang... this is tougher than I had thought!

06-12-2007, 05:09 PM	#11
Luxun Lord Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 64	CHIMPNOODLE. wrote: SKs can tank, I do very decent with my SK, but the reason we arenot known to be a ealible tank is because of our interrupts. DEVs seriously need to look into the SK interrupt issue. If they make a solution for that, and make our taunts unresistable like zerkers, then SKs will be able to tank. SKs tank very well. Interrupts don't cause any big issues. are you kidding me ??? have you tried being the MT on a x4 raid ? You have got to be joking if yo usay interrupts don't bother us. It is becuse of interrupts that we can't dps fast enough and thus build aggro fast enoug hto keep up, it is exactly why zerker are the better dps/tank than SKs are.

06-12-2007, 06:50 PM	#12
CHIMPNOODLE. Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 923	Luxun wrote: CHIMPNOODLE. wrote: SKs can tank, I do very decent with my SK, but the reason we arenot known to be a ealible tank is because of our interrupts. DEVs seriously need to look into the SK interrupt issue. If they make a solution for that, and make our taunts unresistable like zerkers, then SKs will be able to tank. SKs tank very well. Interrupts don't cause any big issues. are you kidding me ??? have you tried being the MT on a x4 raid ? You have got to be joking if yo usay interrupts don't bother us. It is becuse of interrupts that we can't dps fast enough and thus build aggro fast enoug hto keep up, it is exactly why zerker are the better dps/tank than SKs are. That's pretty much all I do with my SK You're information is innacurate. __________________

06-12-2007, 07:07 PM	#13
Dead Knight Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 467	CHIMPNOODLE. wrote: Luxun wrote: CHIMPNOODLE. wrote: SKs can tank, I do very decent with my SK, but the reason we arenot known to be a ealible tank is because of our interrupts. DEVs seriously need to look into the SK interrupt issue. If they make a solution for that, and make our taunts unresistable like zerkers, then SKs will be able to tank. SKs tank very well. Interrupts don't cause any big issues. are you kidding me ??? have you tried being the MT on a x4 raid ? You have got to be joking if yo usay interrupts don't bother us. It is becuse of interrupts that we can't dps fast enough and thus build aggro fast enoug hto keep up, it is exactly why zerker are the better dps/tank than SKs are. That's pretty much all I do with my SK You're information is innacurate. QFE

06-17-2007, 09:04 PM	#14
holypaladin28 General Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 255	Dead Knight wrote: CHIMPNOODLE. wrote: Luxun wrote: CHIMPNOODLE. wrote: SKs can tank, I do very decent with my SK, but the reason we arenot known to be a ealible tank is because of our interrupts. DEVs seriously need to look into the SK interrupt issue. If they make a solution for that, and make our taunts unresistable like zerkers, then SKs will be able to tank. SKs tank very well. Interrupts don't cause any big issues. are you kidding me ??? have you tried being the MT on a x4 raid ? You have got to be joking if yo usay interrupts don't bother us. It is becuse of interrupts that we can't dps fast enough and thus build aggro fast enoug hto keep up, it is exactly why zerker are the better dps/tank than SKs are. That's pretty much all I do with my SK You're information is innacurate. QFE excuse luxun he has never done a t7 raid and only knowledge he has is T6 SK's can tank fine the str line with the hate increaser and the cast timer 10 percent bonus is really good. its a mastter of calling assits and not having an over zelous wizzy fusion on pull. i have easily tanked labs dt lycum first two names in freethinkers (tanked the third but reachingrot kills stupid people) i hvae also tanked most of mmc 2x epics and those guys are no joke with close to 2 million hp on some of them for a 2x. also tanked first 2 names in mmcis. never a problem in fact i think we have an advantage the self heals off every attack helps a little with reaver line. [Removed for Content] i respeced my AA for max str and sta and even after losing the crit for spell damage i doing more dps then i was before. the haste is good for when we wait for ca's to pop back up also

06-17-2007, 11:14 PM	#15
Ikuri Lord Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 51	Kalgore@Vox wrote: Dead Knight wrote: CHIMPNOODLE. wrote: Luxun wrote: CHIMPNOODLE. wrote: SKs can tank, I do very decent with my SK, but the reason we arenot known to be a ealible tank is because of our interrupts. DEVs seriously need to look into the SK interrupt issue. If they make a solution for that, and make our taunts unresistable like zerkers, then SKs will be able to tank. SKs tank very well. Interrupts don't cause any big issues. are you kidding me ??? have you tried being the MT on a x4 raid ? You have got to be joking if yo usay interrupts don't bother us. It is becuse of interrupts that we can't dps fast enough and thus build aggro fast enoug hto keep up, it is exactly why zerker are the better dps/tank than SKs are. That's pretty much all I do with my SK You're information is innacurate. QFE excuse luxun he has never done a t7 raid and only knowledge he has is T6 SK's can tank fine the str line with the hate increaser and the cast timer 10 percent bonus is really good. its a mastter of calling assits and not having an over zelous wizzy fusion on pull. i have easily tanked labs dt lycum first two names in freethinkers (tanked the third but reachingrot kills stupid people) i hvae also tanked most of mmc 2x epics and those guys are no joke with close to 2 million hp on some of them for a 2x. also tanked first 2 names in mmcis. never a problem in fact i think we have an advantage the self heals off every attack helps a little with reaver line. [I cannot control my vocabulary] i respeced my AA for max str and sta and even after losing the crit for spell damage i doing more dps then i was before. the haste is good for when we wait for ca's to pop back up also Kalgore do you have to go every where trying to bash me to make peopel think you are actually a SK ? For peope ltyat don't know, this joke used to be a Paladin who led a guild on Vox to try to drop my master title on my main, ended up hading me a master title on my alt and got me to 4 kills away from overseer before he finalyl gave up surrendered to freeport ...So his feelings are a little hurt. Also Kalgore have you successfully tanked Freethinkers onyour SK ? Have you even MT any of the T7 zones successfully ? i didn't think so so shut-the-F-up. You come here talking about the SK class is like a [Removed for Content] kid from spcial olympics giving advice to David Beckham. Just the shut the F up and go back to your hole clown.

06-17-2007, 11:50 PM	#16
Luxun Lord Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 64	Hey Kalgore atleast I have successfully tanked most of the T7 zones and got a Overseer pvp title. Shouldn't you be busy cybering hollyhood (better known as hollywhore) on EFP docks insted of being here trying to make yourself look like a SK ? Why don't go back to Qeynos and run a guild again ..i wanna get Overseer on my brigand too.

06-18-2007, 04:11 AM	#17
holypaladin28 General Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 255	Luxun wrote: Hey Kalgore atleast I have successfully tanked most of the T7 zones and got a Overseer pvp title. Shouldn't you be busy cybering hollyhood (better known as hollywhore) on EFP docks insted of being here trying to make yourself look like a SK ? Why don't go back to Qeynos and run a guild again ..i wanna get Overseer on my brigand too. hahah tell everyone about your title again and not even in pvp discussion. you should tell them how you got banned and that title on station players went from over seer to master and how your gear got stripped for farming if you are going to tell people about your title you have tanked zero raid zones as i knew what your guild was doing i have tanked them and killed the mobs i tanked. sk's can tank jusat need some tools to kaie it happen aka have asin that parses 2k dps in your group and most of the time you dont have a problem

06-18-2007, 04:26 AM	#18
Vydar Server: Vox Guild: Crimson Rank: Leader Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 362	Ikuri wrote: Kalgore@Vox wrote: Dead Knight wrote: CHIMPNOODLE. wrote: Luxun wrote: CHIMPNOODLE. wrote: SKs can tank, I do very decent with my SK, but the reason we arenot known to be a ealible tank is because of our interrupts. DEVs seriously need to look into the SK interrupt issue. If they make a solution for that, and make our taunts unresistable like zerkers, then SKs will be able to tank. SKs tank very well. Interrupts don't cause any big issues. are you kidding me ??? have you tried being the MT on a x4 raid ? You have got to be joking if yo usay interrupts don't bother us. It is becuse of interrupts that we can't dps fast enough and thus build aggro fast enoug hto keep up, it is exactly why zerker are the better dps/tank than SKs are. That's pretty much all I do with my SK You're information is innacurate. QFE excuse luxun he has never done a t7 raid and only knowledge he has is T6 SK's can tank fine the str line with the hate increaser and the cast timer 10 percent bonus is really good. its a mastter of calling assits and not having an over zelous wizzy fusion on pull. i have easily tanked labs dt lycum first two names in freethinkers (tanked the third but reachingrot kills stupid people) i hvae also tanked most of mmc 2x epics and those guys are no joke with close to 2 million hp on some of them for a 2x. also tanked first 2 names in mmcis. never a problem in fact i think we have an advantage the self heals off every attack helps a little with reaver line. [I cannot control my vocabulary] i respeced my AA for max str and sta and even after losing the crit for spell damage i doing more dps then i was before. the haste is good for when we wait for ca's to pop back up also Kalgore do you have to go every where trying to bash me to make peopel think you are actually a SK ? For peope ltyat don't know, this joke used to be a Paladin who led a guild on Vox to try to drop my master title on my main, ended up hading me a master title on my alt and got me to 4 kills away from overseer before he finalyl gave up surrendered to freeport ...So his feelings are a little hurt. Also Kalgore have you successfully tanked Freethinkers onyour SK ? Have you even MT any of the T7 zones successfully ? i didn't think so so shut-the-F-up. You come here talking about the SK class is like a [I cannot control my vocabulary] kid from spcial olympics giving advice to David Beckham. Just the shut the F up and go back to your hole clown. He wasn't bashing. Others said you provided inaccurate information. He explained why. He kicks [I cannot control my vocabulary] as an SK. He pulls stuff off that other tanks we have (Lazzuras, who's number one or two for most HP on the server and is probably the best geared tank on Vox) have trouble with... such as the MMC x2. That is a tough as hell zone. He holds aggro with no issue (and I'm an assassin who dps's an average of 1800 on raids, he holds aggro even with my burst damage), and he's actually respected among players on our server. He's a huge contribution to our guild and is more of a help than just about anyone else, with his knowledge and his abilities on his character. He makes what I always thought was a pretty useless class kick [I cannot control my vocabulary], and it's pretty impressive to be honest. I played an SK to 53 before discovering how right everyone was about its lack of utility, and played the other toons I found more fun. I may take up this challenge again in the future if I get bored enough. In the interest of not "bashing you everywhere you go" and appearing to stoop to your level, I'll refrain from talking about your "achievements" or lack thereof. He just suggested a nice aa line up. I'm not sure how that qualifies as talking about the SK class like it is a special child- who are all offended by your comment btw, I heard some Oda Clan members crying from their short bus. So please, before you go and talk down to Kalgore, please actually get yourself to the level that you can look down. Right now, you don't even have a t7 SK or an overseer. So... yeah.

06-18-2007, 04:32 AM	#19
Vydar Server: Vox Guild: Crimson Rank: Leader Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 362	Luxun wrote: Hey Kalgore atleast I have successfully tanked most of the T7 zones and got a Overseer pvp title. Shouldn't you be busy cybering hollyhood (better known as hollywhore) on EFP docks insted of being here trying to make yourself look like a SK ? Why don't go back to Qeynos and run a guild again ..i wanna get Overseer on my brigand too. What T7 zones have you tanked successfully? Are we talking about raid zones here or are you referring to say... Acadechism?

06-18-2007, 05:02 AM	#20
Luxun Lord Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 64	Vydar@Vox wrote: Luxun wrote: Hey Kalgore atleast I have successfully tanked most of the T7 zones and got a Overseer pvp title. Shouldn't you be busy cybering hollyhood (better known as hollywhore) on EFP docks insted of being here trying to make yourself look like a SK ? Why don't go back to Qeynos and run a guild again ..i wanna get Overseer on my brigand too. What T7 zones have you tanked successfully? Are we talking about raid zones here or are you referring to say... Acadechism? You Vydar how long have you been on T7 ? Just because Kalgore is in your guild doesn't make what he says a fact. He is known on Vox to talk out of his rear-end all the time. The whole idea of "backing up friends" is all cute and sweet, but if you are going to take side with one of your less intelligent friends, then be expected to be put i nthe same category as him. I have successfully tanked nearly all of KoS raid zones, haven;t been able to get to EoF stuff. I can sit here and tell every SK that brags about not beign interrupted while tankign that he is full of himself. There are SKs on pvp boards who actually know their class and have been i nthe sitation before. I was stating that a SK cannot compete with a zerker when it coems to tanking 99% of raid zones BECAUSE of the fact that we get interrupted and they don't. so we can't hold aggro as good as they can (though is it possible to MT as a SK ..absolutely ..just a lot harder requires better aggro management fro mthe raid which in some cases is not possible) The arguement is that why a dps/tank class like zerker out tank SKs when we aresuppose to be the same, just more spell orianted ? Now if Kalgore would spend less time making lies and cybering holly he might get to learn his class better. Bottom line here is, Kalgore is a joke, you can ask any SK that is not in his guild. I got master on 2 toons, because he was tyring to lead a pvp guild lol ... Facts are facts, and like i said Vydar its cute and sweet that you lie kto back up your friend, but when oyu chosoe to back up a not so intellgenet friend's lies and BS ..expect to be put i nthe same category as him.

06-18-2007, 06:19 AM	#21
Vydar Server: Vox Guild: Crimson Rank: Leader Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 362	Luxun wrote: Vydar@Vox wrote: Luxun wrote: Hey Kalgore atleast I have successfully tanked most of the T7 zones and got a Overseer pvp title. Shouldn't you be busy cybering hollyhood (better known as hollywhore) on EFP docks insted of being here trying to make yourself look like a SK ? Why don't go back to Qeynos and run a guild again ..i wanna get Overseer on my brigand too. What T7 zones have you tanked successfully? Are we talking about raid zones here or are you referring to say... Acadechism? You Vydar how long have you been on T7 ? Just because Kalgore is in your guild doesn't make what he says a fact. He is known on Vox to talk out of his rear-end all the time. The whole idea of "backing up friends" is all cute and sweet, but if you are going to take side with one of your less intelligent friends, then be expected to be put i nthe same category as him. I have successfully tanked nearly all of KoS raid zones, haven;t been able to get to EoF stuff. I can sit here and tell every SK that brags about not beign interrupted while tankign that he is full of himself. There are SKs on pvp boards who actually know their class and have been i nthe sitation before. I was stating that a SK cannot compete with a zerker when it coems to tanking 99% of raid zones BECAUSE of the fact that we get interrupted and they don't. so we can't hold aggro as good as they can (though is it possible to MT as a SK ..absolutely ..just a lot harder requires better aggro management fro mthe raid which in some cases is not possible) The arguement is that why a dps/tank class like zerker out tank SKs when we aresuppose to be the same, just more spell orianted ? Now if Kalgore would spend less time making lies and cybering holly he might get to learn his class better. Bottom line here is, Kalgore is a joke, you can ask any SK that is not in his guild. I got master on 2 toons, because he was tyring to lead a pvp guild lol ... Facts are facts, and like i said Vydar its cute and sweet that you lie kto back up your friend, but when oyu chosoe to back up a not so intellgenet friend's lies and BS ..expect to be put i nthe same category as him. I'm not just backing up a friend, its just fun to refute the BS you spew I didn't say what he says is fact. I've told him to [Removed for Content] many times myself lol. I've been in T7 for about 2 months, maybe 3. And I'm doing much better than many of those who I've seen in T7 for much longer than I because I learn my class, I learn my zones, I learn the game, etc. I don't mind being lumped in the "same category" as Kalgore tbh. There are only maybe 5 people I know of who hate him, and a LOT more that think you're full of it.

06-18-2007, 08:51 AM	#22
Nakash Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 213	Those of you who are finished with flaming each other may be intrested to try the few thinks out. - Get Items that raise Fokus (which is the skill that checks if you get interrupted by an atttack) - Push your avoidence, what does not hit you can not interrupt you. - Push your HP, more HP pushes the amount that reaver Heals in Situations spells and taunts are chained. - There are ways to increase your casting speed, faster casting Speed also means less interruppts. (KOS STR End Ability, Some Avatar Items, Time Compression from Illusionists ) - Improve thinks that let gain you aggro while you are Stuned (Shoulder Spikes, maybe Shield Spikes, Hate Line starter) Getting interrupted is a lesser Problem in T7 Raids, there are many other controll effects that make youre life much more harder. In early T6 the Crusader Class could not be interrupted. This has been taken from us away shortly after upcomming of the PVP Server. I didnt liked it at this point cause it also take the ability away to cast on the run. That makes pulls and building aggro during the Pull difficult at this time, but aggro was a different story at this time. Now the ability to use Bows makes it up if you mix it with your CAs that you can use on the run. Last but not least a minor upgrade in DPS, an major upgrade to the Mana Sieve ability, and one or two nice tools would be an nice increase. But all over all we can't complain in the moment. To the point of the Zerker DPS i have to say that the Damage of the Buckler Line is imbalanced in the moment. No Tank should be able to be on par with pure DDs. We will see what changed after LU 36 and 37 are done. Regards __________________

06-18-2007, 09:52 AM	#23
CHIMPNOODLE. Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 923	Azzaroth has some good tips there for people having problems with interrupts. Bottom line is, interrupts are a non-issue for raid tanking SKs though. As far as zerkers "out-tanking" SKs because their aggro is "better" from DPS is innacurate as well. SKs do not have any more or less trouble overall with aggro. With a decent raid setup neither class has issues. __________________

06-18-2007, 03:37 PM	#24
Controlor Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 767	Kalgore@Vox wrote: (snip) ignoring the flame speaking of faster cast does anyone know if the change to crusader hate line adds 10 percent to recast making it 20 or is soe giving us something we already had. cause if it does add 10 percent more that will be a big leap in aggro handling. also get the cloak of unrest procs 1,8 times a minute lasts 30 seconds and it reduces my cast times another 10 percent so right now when my cloak procs im pushing 20 percent reduced recast timers and if the change to str end abilty is a good one that will be 30 percent most of the time which would be friggen awesome as far as intreuprts i hardly have a problem and thats mostly when i get fluxxed by a mob my focus is 340 if that helps anyone. As i have stated on a seperate SK thread. The end line for Str was always improperly typed. It should have been 10% increase reuse time NOT recovery time. Reuse and Recovery are 2 different things entirely. Reuse is how fast you reuse spells (obviously). Recovery is effecting GLOBAL cool down timers. This timer is hidden behiend your spells and is not displayed UNTIL you get something that lowers the time. Illusionists are the perfect example. Time Compression decreases casing time reuse time and recovery time. It decreases recovery time by 50%. I had tested it out once on a shaman to confirm that recovery is "hidden". First i didnt have the buff on him asked the stats for the spell (well the casting reuse recovery times). He responded there was no recovery time. I cast TC on him and asked again this time he reported recovery time as 0.33 seconds. Someone on the other thread also posted the fixed text to have reuse and recovery seperate. This 10% increase is making your globabl cool downs go by faster thats all it is not stacking with a previous ability. That is all

06-23-2007, 07:47 PM	#25
Squigglle Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 823	maybe they could give sks a little group power syphon? and maybe a skill that can stop enemy aoe's for a short while? __________________

06-23-2007, 09:28 PM	#26
Pitt Hammerfi General Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Melbourne Posts: 710	Sk's have no issues tanking T7 raids at all, sure a guardian is a bit easier to keep alive, but were almost better at keeping hate once we have it with the right group setup. Death march on the pull, will guarentee you have the mob long enough to generate your aggro, and i havent even gone down the hate lines, i bet a hate specced SK would do very well. __________________ www.advancedws.com.au

06-24-2007, 12:48 AM	#27
Druisagoldengod Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 90	Some additional thoughts, For MTing, hate is definitely not an issue if you have a disciplined raid force, hate speced, and right hate transfer toons. If the rumored hate cap changes occur, not the ones recently repealed on test, this may become an issue. And by the looks of it we all agree that SK's can MT, but if you have a guard - stick with them. For DPS we should not be out dpsing scouts or mages as that is their role on raids. So, for a guild who has a guard MT, and ample dps... we are stuck in the situation of why bring the SK. Some of yall I think are hittin on the answer by giving us a better group proc. I would think regen but thats the bard's job and we are too much like the bard as it is heh. Or... what about something that will coincide with dispatch such as a temporary mana increase buff. What this would do is say when dispatch is called then the wizard does mana burn then when their power is nearing the low end, pop this spell and then can burn a little more yes? You could balance the pally by giving them the same thing except with life keep them in the MT group for some nice saves. Then again, they still get amends. Bastages =)

06-24-2007, 11:06 PM	#28
Bruener Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,010	Well this topic has been an issue for as long as I can remember, and quite a while ago I made a post on eq2flames on what I thought they should do, not just for SK's but for fighters in general to make them more raid viable when not playing the role of MT and ST. I recently started a thread about fighters recieving utility for when they are not tanking.... Something that I could really see benefitting SK's might be some kind of hate transfer. Something that is as good as an assassins hate transfer so that it would make it worth having us in the MT group when we are not tanking. There was a time when our mitigation buff was considered a real nice buff but since the diminishing returns of mitigation came into effect this is a useless ability. So, maybe lose the mitigation buff, give us some kind of real good hate transfer and beef up the avoidance buff we can give the MT. Unless they really look at giving us some better utility there is not a lot of reason to bring a SK on a raid...and I know a lot of you are feeling this, hell all fighters are feeling this. Optimum raid set-up usually consists of what...2 fighters, maybe 3 on some encountes, 6-8 healers, 2-4 bards, 2 chanters, and the rest pure DPS. Bards have too much utility, healers bring too much to the table most of the time...no brainer that some of those abilities need to be given to fighters to make them more viable for those raid spots. Give some fighters real nice buffs to put on the MT and ST, give us utility so that we are not given sympathy spots in a raid. And for all of you out there that like the [Removed for Content] status quo (probably DPS classes and bards) go bleep yourself. Fighters have been getting the shaft when it comes to participation on raids since launch, and it is only getting worse. __________________

06-25-2007, 03:32 PM	#29
Collum Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Fort Worth TX Posts: 30	Sooo... What I am reading in this thread is that SKs are not really wanted in raids and are among the first dropped to pick up other classes, for more balance in raids? If the answer to this is, yes... please let me know so I can re-roll.... Thanks

06-25-2007, 04:02 PM	#30
CHIMPNOODLE. Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 923	No. The gist of it is that if the MT or OT is not already an SK, and there is little need for a third based on the targets....then SKs, as all the tank classes, are more likely to be dropped first. __________________