Neriak vs Kelethin "issue"...

Zyphius · 06-11-2007, 11:22 AM

First and foremost, let me say to all the people that decide to trash my thread that you aren't me, you aren't my character, and you have no say so in his "story" or why he did what he did... I.e. if you come to talk [I cannot control my vocabulary] to me, you will be quickly ignored...

Background: My main is a Dark Elf Wizard. He currently resides in Qeynos. There is a RL reason I betrayed, and a storyline reason "he" betrayed. RL: My guild was Qeynos aligned. When I started playing, near launch, you could not support your guild if it was of opposing alignment. So, I had to betray to support my guild. Right after that, you changed it. There was no way to go back. Later, after he hit max level, and aquired masters and adept 3's, you change that... with a penalty. I understand that games change... but changes should not penalize players. Lore reason: Dark elves do not bow to humans. Period. He tried to slay the overlord and was cast out. His only goal in life was to return to Neriak. Neriak was not in the game. Now it is.

EoF launched with a "good city", Kelethin. It was promised that an "evil city" was coming to balance it... hence Neriak.

Why is it that Neriak is KoS to non-citizens of Freeport? Kelethin isn't KoS to non-citizens of Qeynos. My dark elf tried to go see his home, and two big orange aggressive epic gaurds are stopping him from doing so.

I understand the whole good vs evil thing... however... game changes should not penalize players. And, having the new city KoS when it's counterpart isn't is wrong. Bring back faction...

redde · 06-11-2007, 11:28 AM

I also think this is a little strange. I hate the way no good people can get into neriak at all - and there is actually balance issue with this: If you are a freeport citzen and you want to buy something with no comission from someone selling from a sales crate in their house in kelethin, you can waltz in the front door and make the purchase. A seller in neriak with a sales crate can only sell without comission to people who can get into neriak. Currently there is no back door into the zone with access to the houses. Yes, you could roll an alt and buy with them, but what if it's a lore item for example? There are ways around it, but it's inconsistent and imbalanced compared to the 3 other cities.

Karlen · 06-11-2007, 11:39 AM

>>>A seller in neriak with a sales crate can only sell without comission to people who can get into neriak. Currently there is no back door into the zone with access to the houses.<<< Totem of the Jaguar seems to work fine there. I visited Neriak (Qeynos-based Paladin) and explored the entire city using Jaguar Totems. I was seen by a couple of level 66 vampires (and they were not on the main traffic route) but otherwise was invisible to all guards.

Zyphius · 06-11-2007, 01:08 PM

Doesn't really solve the imbalance though. It's good to know that, so I can at least sneak in, but if evil's can willy nilly run around Kelethin, then so shoud goodies around Neriak.

Obadiah · 06-11-2007, 02:51 PM

Matter of preference. I like it the way it is, mostly because it's different.

From a RP perspective, Neriak is, well, evil. Kelethin is more tolerant.

From a gameplay standpoint, invis is no big deal and variety is nice.

Allisia · 06-11-2007, 03:03 PM

Apparently the Queen of Kelethin is a bit more lenient than the Queen of Neriak. If anything Kelethin should be changed, not Neriak. Tier'dal aren't nice and for them to let do-gooders run about willy nilly just makes them seem weak.

Karlen · 06-11-2007, 03:23 PM

>>>....but if evil's can willy nilly run around Kelethin....<<<< From my understanding (I don't actually have any non-Qeynos characters), there are guards in Kelethin that will attack evil characters, but they are pretty much limited to the Royal Court area and are therefore easily avoided. Evil characters also need to be careful in Lesser Faydark as the guards in the Fae Court area of LF will attack evil characters. That said, it is not like Neriak where the guards are blocking the entrance and are well scattered throughout.

Agaxiq · 06-11-2007, 04:46 PM

"Evil" characters miss out on a whole series of quests in LFay, because all of the guards are agro. Heck, I took a horse to the Fae Court Station to hunt some butterflies and found myself dead after I came back to my chair because a wandering level 60 heroic Fae guard two-shot me right at the stable! Considering the amount of quests in Neriak itself, you aren't missing out on very much. What we need is the Orcs to invade greater faydark en masse and take some catapults to those trees. We'll see how agro those Fae are after they come tumbling back to the ground. agressiv

steelblueangel · 06-11-2007, 05:12 PM

lol Agressiv4 I got a good laugh at the visual picture of fay's tumbling out of the trees by an orc invasion. I also agree that evil toons miss out on alot of quest due to fay guards.

mellowknees72 · 06-11-2007, 05:17 PM

Personally, I think it's fine that there are some places I can or can't go based on whether or not I'm aligned "evilly" or "goodly". If the races of Kelethin don't care about who runs around in the trees, that's fine. According to the lore, Kelethin has been pretty isolated (until recently re-discovered). Maybe it's sort of like The Galapagos Islands - you know - isolation can sometimes lead to a lack of awareness of what might be an enemy and what might not. Neriak, on the other hand...I mean...come on! Neriak has ALWAYS been an incredibly evil place. Of course they wouldn't let non-evil folks just waltz in. It would *not* fit with the lore if they did.

Rad · 06-11-2007, 05:26 PM

It really upsets me that they made Kelethin the way it is faction wise....but it upsets me even more that the dwarves in Butcherblock are neutral to everyone. My ogre should not be able to walk up to them and say "hi". Making everything neutral just makes the game very lame for me...makes me wonder why they have good and evil at all.

FlamingDuck · 06-20-2007, 01:41 AM

Radun@Oasis wrote:

It really upsets me that they made Kelethin the way it is faction wise....but it upsets me even more that the dwarves in Butcherblock are neutral to everyone. My ogre should not be able to walk up to them and say "hi". Making everything neutral just makes the game very lame for me...makes me wonder why they have good and evil at all.

Look at it this way, its been 500 years since EQ1, Luclin crashed into the world and things have changed alot since then. Some races have lost their cities, many have rediscovered them and alliances have been forced to change or be altered in some way so they can rebuild themselves in this new world etc etc. The dwarves have learnt to swallow some of their pride and know they need all the help they can get, whether "good" or "evil", to reclaim Kelethin. The dwarves are most likely very wary of your ogre adventurer, probably won't ever trust him completely, but he's strong and could help clean up the crap all around Butcherblock. As for Kelethin, I liked how it was explained earlier its been in isolation for a long time and only recently rediscovered so they are probably not fully aware of all the outside politics.

MaelieJade · 07-12-2007, 04:14 PM

"Totem of the Jaguar seems to work fine there. I visited Neriak (Qeynos-based Paladin) and explored the entire city using Jaguar Totems. I was seen by a couple of level 66 vampires (and they were not on the main traffic route) but otherwise was invisible to all guards."

I have a good char in the mid 50s, and I tried to sneak into Neriak using a Jaguar totem, but the guards could still see through it. Seems it only works if you're high level enough to where the guards aren't red.

Sassinak · 07-16-2007, 05:32 PM

You probably had a "fluff" pet deployed at the time. These pets are not covered by sneak/invis and will cause guards to see you.

06-11-2007, 11:22 AM	#1
Zyphius Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 544	First and foremost, let me say to all the people that decide to trash my thread that you aren't me, you aren't my character, and you have no say so in his "story" or why he did what he did... I.e. if you come to talk [I cannot control my vocabulary] to me, you will be quickly ignored... Background: My main is a Dark Elf Wizard. He currently resides in Qeynos. There is a RL reason I betrayed, and a storyline reason "he" betrayed. RL: My guild was Qeynos aligned. When I started playing, near launch, you could not support your guild if it was of opposing alignment. So, I had to betray to support my guild. Right after that, you changed it. There was no way to go back. Later, after he hit max level, and aquired masters and adept 3's, you change that... with a penalty. I understand that games change... but changes should not penalize players. Lore reason: Dark elves do not bow to humans. Period. He tried to slay the overlord and was cast out. His only goal in life was to return to Neriak. Neriak was not in the game. Now it is. EoF launched with a "good city", Kelethin. It was promised that an "evil city" was coming to balance it... hence Neriak. Why is it that Neriak is KoS to non-citizens of Freeport? Kelethin isn't KoS to non-citizens of Qeynos. My dark elf tried to go see his home, and two big orange aggressive epic gaurds are stopping him from doing so. I understand the whole good vs evil thing... however... game changes should not penalize players. And, having the new city KoS when it's counterpart isn't is wrong. Bring back faction... __________________ Exalted Zyphius Most'Dieus, Destroyer of Fairies, 80 Wizard/80 Sage of Unrest Arion Cessation, 26 Necro of Unrest Twilight Raiders

06-11-2007, 01:08 PM	#4
Zyphius Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 544	Doesn't really solve the imbalance though. It's good to know that, so I can at least sneak in, but if evil's can willy nilly run around Kelethin, then so shoud goodies around Neriak. __________________ Exalted Zyphius Most'Dieus, Destroyer of Fairies, 80 Wizard/80 Sage of Unrest Arion Cessation, 26 Necro of Unrest Twilight Raiders

06-11-2007, 02:51 PM	#5
Obadiah Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,154	Matter of preference. I like it the way it is, mostly because it's different. From a RP perspective, Neriak is, well, evil. Kelethin is more tolerant. From a gameplay standpoint, invis is no big deal and variety is nice. __________________

06-11-2007, 03:03 PM	#6
Allisia Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 355	Apparently the Queen of Kelethin is a bit more lenient than the Queen of Neriak. If anything Kelethin should be changed, not Neriak. Tier'dal aren't nice and for them to let do-gooders run about willy nilly just makes them seem weak. __________________

06-11-2007, 05:17 PM	#10
mellowknees72 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Your Dad's House Posts: 779	Personally, I think it's fine that there are some places I can or can't go based on whether or not I'm aligned "evilly" or "goodly". If the races of Kelethin don't care about who runs around in the trees, that's fine. According to the lore, Kelethin has been pretty isolated (until recently re-discovered). Maybe it's sort of like The Galapagos Islands - you know - isolation can sometimes lead to a lack of awareness of what might be an enemy and what might not. Neriak, on the other hand...I mean...come on! Neriak has ALWAYS been an incredibly evil place. Of course they wouldn't let non-evil folks just waltz in. It would not fit with the lore if they did. __________________

06-11-2007, 11:28 AM	#2
redde General Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 150	I also think this is a little strange. I hate the way no good people can get into neriak at all - and there is actually balance issue with this: If you are a freeport citzen and you want to buy something with no comission from someone selling from a sales crate in their house in kelethin, you can waltz in the front door and make the purchase. A seller in neriak with a sales crate can only sell without comission to people who can get into neriak. Currently there is no back door into the zone with access to the houses. Yes, you could roll an alt and buy with them, but what if it's a lore item for example? There are ways around it, but it's inconsistent and imbalanced compared to the 3 other cities.

06-11-2007, 11:39 AM	#3
Karlen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,513	>>>A seller in neriak with a sales crate can only sell without comission to people who can get into neriak. Currently there is no back door into the zone with access to the houses.<<< Totem of the Jaguar seems to work fine there. I visited Neriak (Qeynos-based Paladin) and explored the entire city using Jaguar Totems. I was seen by a couple of level 66 vampires (and they were not on the main traffic route) but otherwise was invisible to all guards.

06-11-2007, 03:23 PM	#7
Karlen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,513	>>>....but if evil's can willy nilly run around Kelethin....<<<< From my understanding (I don't actually have any non-Qeynos characters), there are guards in Kelethin that will attack evil characters, but they are pretty much limited to the Royal Court area and are therefore easily avoided. Evil characters also need to be careful in Lesser Faydark as the guards in the Fae Court area of LF will attack evil characters. That said, it is not like Neriak where the guards are blocking the entrance and are well scattered throughout.

06-11-2007, 04:46 PM	#8
Agaxiq Server: Unrest Guild: Ascendant Rank: Alts Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 552	"Evil" characters miss out on a whole series of quests in LFay, because all of the guards are agro. Heck, I took a horse to the Fae Court Station to hunt some butterflies and found myself dead after I came back to my chair because a wandering level 60 heroic Fae guard two-shot me right at the stable! Considering the amount of quests in Neriak itself, you aren't missing out on very much. What we need is the Orcs to invade greater faydark en masse and take some catapults to those trees. We'll see how agro those Fae are after they come tumbling back to the ground. agressiv

06-11-2007, 05:12 PM	#9
steelblueangel Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 255	lol Agressiv4 I got a good laugh at the visual picture of fay's tumbling out of the trees by an orc invasion. I also agree that evil toons miss out on alot of quest due to fay guards.

06-11-2007, 05:26 PM	#11
Rad Server: Oasis Guild: Riders of the Storm Rank: Mortal (Member) General Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Your closet. Posts: 134	It really upsets me that they made Kelethin the way it is faction wise....but it upsets me even more that the dwarves in Butcherblock are neutral to everyone. My ogre should not be able to walk up to them and say "hi". Making everything neutral just makes the game very lame for me...makes me wonder why they have good and evil at all.

06-20-2007, 01:41 AM	#12
FlamingDuck Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 111	Radun@Oasis wrote: It really upsets me that they made Kelethin the way it is faction wise....but it upsets me even more that the dwarves in Butcherblock are neutral to everyone. My ogre should not be able to walk up to them and say "hi". Making everything neutral just makes the game very lame for me...makes me wonder why they have good and evil at all. Look at it this way, its been 500 years since EQ1, Luclin crashed into the world and things have changed alot since then. Some races have lost their cities, many have rediscovered them and alliances have been forced to change or be altered in some way so they can rebuild themselves in this new world etc etc. The dwarves have learnt to swallow some of their pride and know they need all the help they can get, whether "good" or "evil", to reclaim Kelethin. The dwarves are most likely very wary of your ogre adventurer, probably won't ever trust him completely, but he's strong and could help clean up the crap all around Butcherblock. As for Kelethin, I liked how it was explained earlier its been in isolation for a long time and only recently rediscovered so they are probably not fully aware of all the outside politics.

07-12-2007, 04:14 PM	#13
MaelieJade Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 45	"Totem of the Jaguar seems to work fine there. I visited Neriak (Qeynos-based Paladin) and explored the entire city using Jaguar Totems. I was seen by a couple of level 66 vampires (and they were not on the main traffic route) but otherwise was invisible to all guards." I have a good char in the mid 50s, and I tried to sneak into Neriak using a Jaguar totem, but the guards could still see through it. Seems it only works if you're high level enough to where the guards aren't red.

07-16-2007, 05:32 PM	#14
Sassinak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 557	You probably had a "fluff" pet deployed at the time. These pets are not covered by sneak/invis and will cause guards to see you.