A plea from Vox pvpers to the DEVs. Population problem is getting awful now..

[Luxun]

I'm making this point right now, right here because the DEVs are keeping an eye on their pvp thread so they might accidently see this topic.

Putting it simply Vox really needs help. We are willing to trade all of our coins and tradable items to have the chance to transfer to another server. We can go hours on hours without seeing a single player to to fight. 80% of our populaiton has already re-rolled to Naggy or Venekor. I really see no point even for SOE to keep Vox this dead, I don't even think if SOE is making much money off exchange server, not many toons are ever selling.

I hope someone looks into this issue, because its really getting frustrating.

[Novusod]

I have 5 toons on Vox and I don't think the population of the server is that bad. Most of the people in T7 have rerolled to play in T2/T3 because that is where the action is right now. If I am not mistaken there are 8 or 9 raid guilds on this server that can still fill a T7 4x. The server is not dead the players just arn't playing where you want them to play.

[Groma]

Novusod wrote:

I have 5 toons on Vox and I don't think the population of the server is that bad. Most of the people in T7 have rerolled to play in T2/T3 because that is where the action is right now. If I am not mistaken there are 8 or 9 raid guilds on this server that can still fill a T7 4x. The server is not dead the players just arn't playing where you want them to play.

Well, the action may be good in T2/T3, but its far from it in T7.  Currently, the big 2 or 3 Q guilds are raiding together because none of them are fielding x4s on their own. Exile has one raid force, and FPs have 1 raid force.  For T2/T3, i'm going on 3 hour straight in Ant/CL/TS/Nek and i've seen 4 people.

[tass]

didnt they do the whole server transfer thing for this exact reason?

[Wilde_Night]

Vox residents did not get the transfer option others did, because their ruleset is different from the other PvP servers.  They were kind of ignored.

[CresentBlade]

Vox is excahnge right?

Cant you just buy some people to fight?

If it starts getting bad there they may let people transfer but there may be concerns of inbalances. So maybe naked transfers or just what your wearing ehhe. /shrug

[Luxun]

CresentBlade wrote:

Vox is excahnge right?

Cant you just buy some people to fight?

If it starts getting bad there they may let people transfer but there may be concerns of inbalances. So maybe naked transfers or just what your wearing ehhe. /shrug

Just so you know, on Vox you cant just buy anything you want. You can only buy tradable items, such as coin and mastercraft gear ect. They all mean nothing in t7 since 95% of the equipment you need are no trade. Also we both know that over 60% of naggy and venekor player baseuse use the chinese botter sites to buy eq2 plat, so give me a break.  IMO they should merge Vox with venekor or something, or just give us a free transfer ....or hell just give us a $50/toon transfer and we iwl ltake it. SOE could make some money out of it too, since everyone on Vox will indeed transfer lol.

[Rajasa]

Just a little friendly advice that I know no one will actually agree to do.

Stop twinking, level locking, buying gold online and making your characters uber beyond belief and maybe more people will play on the pvp servers and at least have a chance to compete and have fun.

Just because you have a higher level character with the means to twink, doesn't mean you have to. PVP would be so much more enjoyable if players were at least able to defend themselves.

I enjoy playing on Venekor, but some nights I wonder why myself.

[Bozidar]

allow transfers off of vox, as previously stated would not be possible, and i want the toons back that i sold because i believed SoE =P

[DementedGerbil]

/raises hand

let us xfer off, my entire guild would xfer to another server im sure of that since most of us hate vox, but to start anew this late in the game on vene or naggy we wouldnt get to where we are now by any means anytime soon, most quit before they reroll for that, nobody wants to do all the same quests just to roll the same class again, lord knows i dont

[Harbringer Doom]

Rajasa wrote:

Just a little friendly advice that I know no one will actually agree to do.

Stop twinking, level locking, buying gold online and making your characters uber beyond belief and maybe more people will play on the pvp servers and at least have a chance to compete and have fun.

Just because you have a higher level character with the means to twink, doesn't mean you have to. PVP would be so much more enjoyable if players were at least able to defend themselves.

I enjoy playing on Venekor, but some nights I wonder why myself.

Just let me know the formula for how much fabled gear/masters/AA I'm allowed to acquire per character.  Thanks. Seriously, people are going to make their character as strong as possible within the ruleset, that's the nature of PvP.  Asking people to stop is utterly useless. If you choose to play on a PvP server, understand that you are going to have to compete with twinks.  Everyone started at the same place.  Nothing in Norrath is free.  Work at your character for as long as some people here already have, and you'll be able to compete too. Nothing is stopping you.

[Rajasa]

Good point Tesar. I agree with your response.

The game rules allow for the playstyle and people have "paid" their dues and gotten to higher levels to be in a position to twink an alt.

But... My point is... This is a major reason why the population is falling on the pvp servers. It's a double edged sword, so to speak.

A server needs fresh new blood to survive and new people coming over simply cannot compete in this environment.

[Harbringer Doom]

Rajasa wrote:

Good point Tesar. I agree with your response.

The game rules allow for the playstyle and people have "paid" their dues and gotten to higher levels to be in a position to twink an alt.

But... My point is... This is a major reason why the population is falling on the pvp servers. It's a double edged sword, so to speak.

A server needs fresh new blood to survive and new people coming over simply cannot compete in this environment.

Personally, I don't see evidence "that this is a major reason why the population is failing on the pvp servers."  I just see people making that claim. Sure, there are a couple anecdotal posts on the forums about people saying they are packing it in because of locking, but I'm not sure that's solid evidence that the server is failing because of level-locking. As Inigo said to Westley just before he told him Buttercup is marry' Humperdinck in a little less than half an hour.  "Let me 'splain."   [pause] "No, there is too much. Let me sum up." First, I agree that tweaks to the current level locking system, as a whole, need to be made.  But, at at what point do you oppress the "level lockers"?  Do you remove all ability to lock, forcing people to level up, miss content, be unable to play with friends unless they work their [Removed for Content] off at remaining the same level? I know people don't buy these arguments, and they profess that level-locking is about feeling superior, ganking, god-mode, title whoring, but I'm here to tell you its not all about that.  I'm one of the people enjoying being level locked so my small group of guildies will always be able to play together, and not get one shotted because we're grouped with someone too high.  We temper our leveling as a group. We attack people who we have no idea whether we're going to win.  We're not camping zones too low for us, we're searching for even level and higher PvP as much as we can.  We take little pleasure in ganking someone, and prefer to just barely win a fight, but if you're a solo green harvesting in the middle of the Commonlands, sure, we'll kill you.  Sorry, its PvP.  Come back again?  We'll kill you again. Be more smarter. There are PLENTY of places to avoid PvP in Norrath.  If you need to level up to compete, be more smarter.  Ask for help.  Get a group.  Level and gear yourself up in an instance.  I don't mind.  I'm sorry more newbs don't know this, maybe there should be an automatic mail sent to your mailbox about the way life is on a pvp server.  A Welcome to the Jungle type mail about how there are people out there who have been working on their characters for MONTHS.  Tracking down every last Master.  Getting all fabled gear.  Stocking up on the best adornments.  Placing AA in just the right places, and in the tens of hundreds.  Getting the bestest, fastest, more resistyest horse they can find, so nothing you can cast will touch them. And they are out there.  Waiting for you.  Hunting you.  So be ready.  Get stronger.  Play smarter.  Just don't come to the forums after each time you die and ask that their left arm be tied behind their back, and that they be stabbed in the flank once with a poison blade before your fight starts. I don't want everyone to be able to make their toon as powerful as everyone else with ease.  It sucks the fun out of the game to me.  I remember when everything was harder in this game.  Leveling.  Crafting.  Not getting one-shotted by reds in open T6 zones.  Its all being too watered down, and these changes are moving towards the next bucket of water being added. I don't mind the lack of debt, or the limiting of AA... but this is a slippery slope, and I'm worried where the next step will bring us.  You may keep all the new players who are pleased as punch that they can compete now in their island gear at level 23, but what about the competitors who are just sick of the vanilla flavoring that keeps getting added by the cupful?

[deepruntramp]

Swashbucklers on PvP servers shouldn't be allowed to post. Your character is easy mode.  "Skill" to you is learning the Window Settings functions to make your always-up Track window fit your UI better. You don't have the right to tell another player to "learn to play" when you set difficulty to "Easy."  And still needed to turn on Godmode. Want to see PvP?  Go roll an INT caster.  You're not allowed to twink him at all, you can only use what you find, or the money made from what you find. Try and see how far your superior game knowledge and "skill" take you.  Even if you farm for a week, you'll still suck.

[Harbringer Doom]

deepruntramp wrote:

Swashbucklers on PvP servers shouldn't be allowed to post. Your character is easy mode.  "Skill" to you is learning the Window Settings functions to make your always-up Track window fit your UI better. You don't have the right to tell another player to "learn to play" when you set difficulty to "Easy."  And still needed to turn on Godmode. Want to see PvP?  Go roll an INT caster.  You're not allowed to twink him at all, you can only use what you find, or the money made from what you find. Try and see how far your superior game knowledge and "skill" take you.  Even if you farm for a week, you'll still suck.

Oh look!  Random internet jackhole # 76436373 posting about something he is completely ignorant of!  Yipee!  Permission to be a jackhole granted !! Hey genius, my low level toon is a Guardian.  Who's on... what's the phrase overused by kneejerk reactionary posters.... "team easy" now?   Just because you're absolutely soaking in bitterness and resentment in everything you post doesn't mean you know squat.  And every time you type you confirm it. By the by, here's the stupidest thing in your post, in case you were reading through it, picking your nose, trying to puzzle it out:   "You're not allowed to twink him at all, you can only use what you find, or the money made from what you find." That's where EVERY legitimate player starts.  With nothing.  That's where I started.  With nothing.  This is exactly where all my characters started.  With nothing.   Just because you can't manage to figure out a way to gear up, doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to gear down. Seriously, smash your keyboard through your monitor right now, it will be an improvement for you, and the overall intelligence quotient of the boards can rocket upward.  Or, in the alternative, post with a little more class, and we can discuss the issue like rational people.  Your choice!

[Ozgood]

C'mon here.

We can not allow Vox to merge because it will be unfair?  Because they can buy everything?

Never bought one thing.  A lot of people on this server are the same way.  Now, I could, which I agree with you, BUT-

You mean to tell me no one on your servers bought plat?  No farmers on those other servers?  Can you buy no-drop items?

C'MON!

More people to PvP and drop stuff means more for everyone.  Put a plat limit on it or something, but allow us to merge!!!

The more the merrier, especially with the well needed PvP changes that are going to make a lot of the uber pwnaagers leave momentarily.

[Ijiamee]

Luxun wrote:  Also we both know that over 60% of naggy and venekor player use the chinese botter sites to buy eq2 plat, so give me a break. 

Really? 60% of all PvPers by plat? Interesting.

[CresentBlade]

Ozgood@Vox wrote:

C'mon here.

We can not allow Vox to merge because it will be unfair?  Because they can buy everything?

Never bought one thing.  A lot of people on this server are the same way.  Now, I could, which I agree with you, BUT-

You mean to tell me no one on your servers bought plat?  No farmers on those other servers?  Can you buy no-drop items?

C'MON!

More people to PvP and drop stuff means more for everyone.  Put a plat limit on it or something, but allow us to merge!!!

The more the merrier, especially with the well needed PvP changes that are going to make a lot of the uber pwnaagers leave momentarily.

The whole point of the server was to be able to buy stuff, come on who are you kidding. What did alot of people go to Vox thinking Exchange was the servers last name?

[Novusod]

I wonder how the players from the other servers would feel if bought toons from Vox were allowed to come to their server. I don't think they would like it very much. Even if nothing was bought on exchange Vox is a very different server in that you can solo here, quest, kill named, earn AA, and farm gear without getting ganked. If transfers were allowed off Vox I could see a lot of people creating new toons here to twink them up and then transfer them off when they want to PvP. They might as well let pve players transfer. The only other server I could see Vox toons being allowed to transfer over to is the bazzar server.

[Vydar]

Novusod wrote:

I wonder how the players from the other servers would feel if bought toons from Vox were allowed to come to their server. I don't think they would like it very much. Even if nothing was bought on exchange Vox is a very different server in that you can solo here, quest, kill named, earn AA, and farm gear without getting ganked. If transfers were allowed off Vox I could see a lot of people creating new toons here to twink them up and then transfer them off when they want to PvP. They might as well let pve players transfer. The only other server I could see Vox toons being allowed to transfer over to is the bazzar server.

Right... because we all know people who buy their toons and don't learn how to use them are uber Oh yeah, and bought gear, Mastercrafted, is the uberness.  Last time I checked, MC is pretty easy to acquire... the No Trade stuff is the uber gear.  Master Spells can be bought... but just like any other server, you can buy plat and buy masters.  Oh, and collections can be bought... just like on any other server. Oh, and with upcoming expansion... buying plat will do what for you?  Since no one will have it to sell you?  Hmm. And you can't tell me other servers don't have twink problems.  They're just as bad as Vox. The only difference between Vox and other PvP servers is on Vox SOE gets money out of people buying plat.

[Ozgood]

Tesar@Venekor wrote:

Rajasa wrote:

Good point Tesar. I agree with your response.

The game rules allow for the playstyle and people have "paid" their dues and gotten to higher levels to be in a position to twink an alt.

But... My point is... This is a major reason why the population is falling on the pvp servers. It's a double edged sword, so to speak.

A server needs fresh new blood to survive and new people coming over simply cannot compete in this environment.

First, I would like to compliment you on your post.  It states your POV quite well, intelligently and it was a good read.  To the person that attacked you, well...nevermind.  Anyways, I shall comment to your post constructively, from my POV.

Personally, I don't see evidence "that this is a major reason why the population is failing on the pvp servers."  I just see people making that claim.

Well how long have you been on your server?  To me, on Vox, which this thread is regarding, the population in all tiers have been dwindling significantly over the last 6 months.

Sure, there are a couple anecdotal posts on the forums about people saying they are packing it in because of locking, but I'm not sure that's solid evidence that the server is failing because of level-locking.

Agreed, I think the population as a whole has dropped, which I will address here shortly. As Inigo said to Westley just before he told him Buttercup is marry' Humperdinck in a little less than half an hour.  "Let me 'splain."   [pause] "No, there is too much. Let me sum up." First, I agree that tweaks to the current level locking system, as a whole, need to be made.  But, at at what point do you oppress the "level lockers"?  Do you remove all ability to lock, forcing people to level up, miss content, be unable to play with friends unless they work their [I cannot control my vocabulary] off at remaining the same level?

Getting levels on this game ins't that hard, honestly.  The PVE portion of this game is very watered down, so that is an alternative.  I create toons that I keep within a designated range, with my buddies, so when we decide to roll them together, we can.  I wouldn't saying oppress in that 1.5 AA's per level still makes a decent toon.  Plus, there is always mentoring, but that system needs some help as well. I know people don't buy these arguments, and they profess that level-locking is about feeling superior, ganking, god-mode, title whoring, but I'm here to tell you its not all about that.  I'm one of the people enjoying being level locked so my small group of guildies will always be able to play together, and not get one shotted because we're grouped with someone too high.  We temper our leveling as a group.

Hmm, I think this is a reach.  Why, because with /exp off and doing whatnot to get AA's will garner you less typically that 1.5 AA's per level.  So in order to play with your friends, you all had to die multiple times on purpose to get X amount of AAs to roll together?  You can still level lock...kind of lost me on that one. We attack people who we have no idea whether we're going to win.  We're not camping zones too low for us, we're searching for even level and higher PvP as much as we can.  We take little pleasure in ganking someone, and prefer to just barely win a fight, but if you're a solo green harvesting in the middle of the Commonlands, sure, we'll kill you.  Sorry, its PvP.  Come back again?  We'll kill you again.

Agreed. Be more smarter.

Disagree.  My main is a Coercer.  I am quite smart.  I cannot beat you if we had the same gear, unless I have a uber pet and get the jump on you while you are AFK.  I cannot run from most scouts because of in-combat speed.  I cannot evac.  I cannot see you coming with track, or stealth to avoid you.  I cannot EVER kill you in 3 seconds let alone 15 seconds.

Now should I automatically be able to beat you?  No.  Should I be able to compete?  Yes.  Should I be forced to level in instances because I didn't choose a scout or druid on a PvP server?  Hell, no!  I am a support player, I realize that, however, I should be able to compete, whereas right now, I cannot for the most part. There are PLENTY of places to avoid PvP in Norrath.  If you need to level up to compete, be more smarter.  Ask for help.  Get a group.  Level and gear yourself up in an instance.  I don't mind.  I'm sorry more newbs don't know this, maybe there should be an automatic mail sent to your mailbox about the way life is on a pvp server.  A Welcome to the Jungle type mail about how there are people out there who have been working on their characters for MONTHS.  Tracking down every last Master.  Getting all fabled gear.  Stocking up on the best adornments.  Placing AA in just the right places, and in the tens of hundreds.  Getting the bestest, fastest, more resistyest horse they can find, so nothing you can cast will touch them.

New subscribers is the lifeline of any profitable successful MMORPG.  A lot of PvP players is essential to the "fun factor" of any PvP server or game.  This game in it's current state, butchers new players.  Something had to be done. And they are out there.  Waiting for you.  Hunting you.  So be ready.  Get stronger.  Play smarter.  Just don't come to the forums after each time you die and ask that their left arm be tied behind their back, and that they be stabbed in the flank once with a poison blade before your fight starts.

Never asked for a nerf in my life.  But, I think you would agree that there has to be risk associated with the reward.  Alot of the scout and rogue classes, with track, stealth, T1 DpS, evac and speed, have little risk and tons of reward.  If I as a Defiler, came rolling up to you and attacked you, I have a high risk o you killing me, even though I "supposedly" had the upper hand.  High risk, low reward.  Same goes for Pallies, Pet classes, enchanters and many others I am sure I am forgetting. I don't want everyone to be able to make their toon as powerful as everyone else with ease.  It sucks the fun out of the game to me.  I remember when everything was harder in this game.  Leveling.  Crafting.  Not getting one-shotted by reds in open T6 zones.  Its all being too watered down, and these changes are moving towards the next bucket of water being added.

1-3 second kills is fun for you and involves skill?  Wouldn't a great fight, with the same outcome (in your favor) because you are a superior player, with superior gear and superior AA's make it that much MORE rewarding? I am not attcking your class, but any class that can kill you in one shot or chain 8 CAs on you and kill ANYONE, even you, before you can react, is a problem, IMHO. I don't mind the lack of debt, or the limiting of AA... but this is a slippery slope, and I'm worried where the next step will bring us. 

Wait and see.  I think from the way you PvP, you will be fine and actually like the changes. You may keep all the new players who are pleased as punch that they can compete now in their island gear at level 23, but what about the competitors who are just sick of the vanilla flavoring that keeps getting added by the cupful? Compete in island gear?  That is a bit of the sky is falling.  Doesn't even make sense and as you say, has no factual basis whatsoever.

[Ozgood]

CresentBlade wrote:

Ozgood@Vox wrote:

C'mon here.

We can not allow Vox to merge because it will be unfair?  Because they can buy everything?

Never bought one thing.  A lot of people on this server are the same way.  Now, I could, which I agree with you, BUT-

You mean to tell me no one on your servers bought plat?  No farmers on those other servers?  Can you buy no-drop items?

C'MON!

More people to PvP and drop stuff means more for everyone.  Put a plat limit on it or something, but allow us to merge!!!

The more the merrier, especially with the well needed PvP changes that are going to make a lot of the uber pwnaagers leave momentarily.

The whole point of the server was to be able to buy stuff, come on who are you kidding. What did alot of people go to Vox thinking Exchange was the servers last name?

Usually like your posts, but this one lost me.  I am not kidding anyone, but agreed that the purpose of the server was to buy plat and items legally through SOE.  So on your server, there is no one on there, not even 20% that buy plat ILLEGALLY?  C'mon.

So your server, Illegal, still do it.

Vox, legal and do it.

Plus, if we are all buyers of toons and have no talent, that is just free Status and items for you! 

Please tell me why again, honestly, why you wouldn't want more people on your server PvPing?  I missed that in your response.

[Groma]

It would be pretty easy, allow transfers as a one time deal, suspend SE sales for that couple days of transfers, and only allow people to bring attuned/no trade equipment with them. With the exception of M1's, no respectable T7 player is using anything that he can buy on SE, and for the most part(rare fabled tradable items in HoS/LoA aside) purchase on the broker. I don't know how many people buy plat illegally on Nagafen, 60% sounds too high imo but i'm sure its a measurable amount of people.  Regardless, the option is there and SOE hardly polices it.

[tass]

deepruntramp wrote:

Swashbucklers on PvP servers shouldn't be allowed to post. Your character is easy mode.  "Skill" to you is learning the Window Settings functions to make your always-up Track window fit your UI better. You don't have the right to tell another player to "learn to play" when you set difficulty to "Easy."  And still needed to turn on Godmode. Want to see PvP?  Go roll an INT caster.  You're not allowed to twink him at all, you can only use what you find, or the money made from what you find. Try and see how far your superior game knowledge and "skill" take you.  Even if you farm for a week, you'll still suck.

Sounds to be like someone got slapped around by even are ugly cousin the bard class lol. And as irony would have it I made a brig once and named him easymode. Then every time I killed a q I hit my macro pointing at the name.  It just seemed so perfect a name class and macro ya know?

[Novusod]

Vydar@Vox wrote:

Novusod wrote:

I wonder how the players from the other servers would feel if bought toons from Vox were allowed to come to their server. I don't think they would like it very much. Even if nothing was bought on exchange Vox is a very different server in that you can solo here, quest, kill named, earn AA, and farm gear without getting ganked. If transfers were allowed off Vox I could see a lot of people creating new toons here to twink them up and then transfer them off when they want to PvP. They might as well let pve players transfer. The only other server I could see Vox toons being allowed to transfer over to is the bazzar server.

Right... because we all know people who buy their toons and don't learn how to use them are uber Oh yeah, and bought gear, Mastercrafted, is the uberness.  Last time I checked, MC is pretty easy to acquire... the No Trade stuff is the uber gear.  Master Spells can be bought... but just like any other server, you can buy plat and buy masters.  Oh, and collections can be bought... just like on any other server. Oh, and with upcoming expansion... buying plat will do what for you?  Since no one will have it to sell you?  Hmm. And you can't tell me other servers don't have twink problems.  They're just as bad as Vox. The only difference between Vox and other PvP servers is on Vox SOE gets money out of people buying plat.

Where do you get this idea that you can only buy mastercrafted on SE? You can buy an entire full-fabled charactor on SE for a few hundred dollars. SE really has nothing to do with buying plat. You can buy plat on any server through sirspamsalot.com but SE is about buying entire charactors with no-trade set gear using RMT.

[Armironhead]

Luxun wrote:

I'm making this point right now, right here because the DEVs are keeping an eye on their pvp thread so they might accidently see this topic.

Putting it simply Vox really needs help. We are willing to trade all of our coins and tradable items to have the chance to transfer to another server. We can go hours on hours without seeing a single player to to fight. 80% of our populaiton has already re-rolled to Naggy or Venekor. I really see no point even for SOE to keep Vox this dead, I don't even think if SOE is making much money off exchange server, not many toons are ever selling.

I hope someone looks into this issue, because its really getting frustrating.

I cant agree more.  I would reroll on another server expect that i put so much effort into my toon that i'm kinda attached to it and would hate to have to start all over.  If we cant get off of vox, I hope at least that they will do something with vox -- like change the ruleset to hardcore -- no immune/no lvl ranges.

[natasha]

Luxun,

I am fairly new to Vox. (as in the last two months new)

 I have just brought 7 of my guildies with me from a PvE server and we are constantly recruiting more. We are all new, and we are continually running into new people who are just starting out like us. I've heard people say that exchange servers are nothing but greedy, only to come back to play with old friends because they found the markets and brokers just as pricey on non-exchange servers.

I've also heard people complain that Vox sucks because there's no one there...and then I've heard people pipe in and say that Nagafen was awful because it was too crowded and you can't complete a quest or take two steps without a constant fight, that they preferred it on Vox. The grass is always greener on the other side.

I can't count how many times I've heard someone complain that the population on Vox is dying off, and there are no fights to be found.

And yet, my crafters are ever competing again'st the latest wave of new crafters flooding the market, and I laugh when I am out in the Commonlands and get killed three times in a row because it's teeming with Freeporters. If I don't happen to come across Freeporters in my backyard, I go to the source, and I NEVER have difficulty finding any there. Plenty of solo and group action to be found in and around Freeport.

I have tried both Freeport and Qeynos sides. I found that it was a little harder to find Qeynosians for whatever reason,be it that they are fewer in number or tend to roam away from home less. So if you're looking for more targets, try rolling a Qeynosian!! I have never had a single day go by yet since I started my level locked noob toon where I cannot win and lose plenty of fights. They are out there...perhaps you aren't looking in the right spots? Hang in there! And keep your blade sharpened.

[Harbringer Doom]

Ozgood@Vox wrote:

Tesar@Venekor wrote:

Well how long have you been on your server?  To me, on Vox, which this thread is regarding, the population in all tiers have been dwindling significantly over the last 6 months.

Sure, there are a couple anecdotal posts on the forums about people saying they are packing it in because of locking, but I'm not sure that's solid evidence that the server is failing because of level-locking.

Agreed, I think the population as a whole has dropped, which I will address here shortly. As Inigo said to Westley just before he told him Buttercup is marry' Humperdinck in a little less than half an hour.  "Let me 'splain."   [pause] "No, there is too much. Let me sum up." First, I agree that tweaks to the current level locking system, as a whole, need to be made.  But, at at what point do you oppress the "level lockers"?  Do you remove all ability to lock, forcing people to level up, miss content, be unable to play with friends unless they work their [I cannot control my vocabulary] off at remaining the same level?

Getting levels on this game ins't that hard, honestly.  The PVE portion of this game is very watered down, so that is an alternative.  I create toons that I keep within a designated range, with my buddies, so when we decide to roll them together, we can.  I wouldn't saying oppress in that 1.5 AA's per level still makes a decent toon.  Plus, there is always mentoring, but that system needs some help as well. I know people don't buy these arguments, and they profess that level-locking is about feeling superior, ganking, god-mode, title whoring, but I'm here to tell you its not all about that.  I'm one of the people enjoying being level locked so my small group of guildies will always be able to play together, and not get one shotted because we're grouped with someone too high.  We temper our leveling as a group.

Hmm, I think this is a reach.  Why, because with /exp off and doing whatnot to get AA's will garner you less typically that 1.5 AA's per level.  So in order to play with your friends, you all had to die multiple times on purpose to get X amount of AAs to roll together?  You can still level lock...kind of lost me on that one. We attack people who we have no idea whether we're going to win.  We're not camping zones too low for us, we're searching for even level and higher PvP as much as we can.  We take little pleasure in ganking someone, and prefer to just barely win a fight, but if you're a solo green harvesting in the middle of the Commonlands, sure, we'll kill you.  Sorry, its PvP.  Come back again?  We'll kill you again.

Agreed. Be more smarter.

Disagree.  My main is a Coercer.  I am quite smart.  I cannot beat you if we had the same gear, unless I have a uber pet and get the jump on you while you are AFK.  I cannot run from most scouts because of in-combat speed.  I cannot evac.  I cannot see you coming with track, or stealth to avoid you.  I cannot EVER kill you in 3 seconds let alone 15 seconds.

Now should I automatically be able to beat you?  No.  Should I be able to compete?  Yes.  Should I be forced to level in instances because I didn't choose a scout or druid on a PvP server?  Hell, no!  I am a support player, I realize that, however, I should be able to compete, whereas right now, I cannot for the most part. There are PLENTY of places to avoid PvP in Norrath.  If you need to level up to compete, be more smarter.  Ask for help.  Get a group.  Level and gear yourself up in an instance.  I don't mind.  I'm sorry more newbs don't know this, maybe there should be an automatic mail sent to your mailbox about the way life is on a pvp server.  A Welcome to the Jungle type mail about how there are people out there who have been working on their characters for MONTHS.  Tracking down every last Master.  Getting all fabled gear.  Stocking up on the best adornments.  Placing AA in just the right places, and in the tens of hundreds.  Getting the bestest, fastest, more resistyest horse they can find, so nothing you can cast will touch them.

New subscribers is the lifeline of any profitable successful MMORPG.  A lot of PvP players is essential to the "fun factor" of any PvP server or game.  This game in it's current state, butchers new players.  Something had to be done. And they are out there.  Waiting for you.  Hunting you.  So be ready.  Get stronger.  Play smarter.  Just don't come to the forums after each time you die and ask that their left arm be tied behind their back, and that they be stabbed in the flank once with a poison blade before your fight starts.

Never asked for a nerf in my life.  But, I think you would agree that there has to be risk associated with the reward.  Alot of the scout and rogue classes, with track, stealth, T1 DpS, evac and speed, have little risk and tons of reward.  If I as a Defiler, came rolling up to you and attacked you, I have a high risk o you killing me, even though I "supposedly" had the upper hand.  High risk, low reward.  Same goes for Pallies, Pet classes, enchanters and many others I am sure I am forgetting. I don't want everyone to be able to make their toon as powerful as everyone else with ease.  It sucks the fun out of the game to me.  I remember when everything was harder in this game.  Leveling.  Crafting.  Not getting one-shotted by reds in open T6 zones.  Its all being too watered down, and these changes are moving towards the next bucket of water being added.

1-3 second kills is fun for you and involves skill?  Wouldn't a great fight, with the same outcome (in your favor) because you are a superior player, with superior gear and superior AA's make it that much MORE rewarding? I am not attcking your class, but any class that can kill you in one shot or chain 8 CAs on you and kill ANYONE, even you, before you can react, is a problem, IMHO. I don't mind the lack of debt, or the limiting of AA... but this is a slippery slope, and I'm worried where the next step will bring us. 

Wait and see.  I think from the way you PvP, you will be fine and actually like the changes. You may keep all the new players who are pleased as punch that they can compete now in their island gear at level 23, but what about the competitors who are just sick of the vanilla flavoring that keeps getting added by the cupful? Compete in island gear?  That is a bit of the sky is falling.  Doesn't even make sense and as you say, has no factual basis whatsoever.

First, the blue is killing me.  KILLING ME!   Second, I wasn't calling you personally not smart up there, it was just an expression.    I was talking to those who can't understand why they can't win a fight while they are jumped by a group of twinks while they harvest alone in the middle of Antonica. (I was exaggerating about the island gear) Lastly, again, my alt is a low level guardian, if I win a fight its certainly not in three seconds. 

[Azrephail]

Tesar@Venekor wrote:

Rajasa wrote:

Good point Tesar. I agree with your response.

The game rules allow for the playstyle and people have "paid" their dues and gotten to higher levels to be in a position to twink an alt.

But... My point is... This is a major reason why the population is falling on the pvp servers. It's a double edged sword, so to speak.

A server needs fresh new blood to survive and new people coming over simply cannot compete in this environment.

Personally, I don't see evidence "that this is a major reason why the population is failing on the pvp servers."  I just see people making that claim. Sure, there are a couple anecdotal posts on the forums about people saying they are packing it in because of locking, but I'm not sure that's solid evidence that the server is failing because of level-locking. As Inigo said to Westley just before he told him Buttercup is marry' Humperdinck in a little less than half an hour.  "Let me 'splain."   [pause] "No, there is too much. Let me sum up." First, I agree that tweaks to the current level locking system, as a whole, need to be made.  But, at at what point do you oppress the "level lockers"?  Do you remove all ability to lock, forcing people to level up, miss content, be unable to play with friends unless they work their [I cannot control my vocabulary] off at remaining the same level? I know people don't buy these arguments, and they profess that level-locking is about feeling superior, ganking, god-mode, title whoring, but I'm here to tell you its not all about that.  I'm one of the people enjoying being level locked so my small group of guildies will always be able to play together, and not get one shotted because we're grouped with someone too high.  We temper our leveling as a group. We attack people who we have no idea whether we're going to win.  We're not camping zones too low for us, we're searching for even level and higher PvP as much as we can.  We take little pleasure in ganking someone, and prefer to just barely win a fight, but if you're a solo green harvesting in the middle of the Commonlands, sure, we'll kill you.  Sorry, its PvP.  Come back again?  We'll kill you again. Be more smarter. There are PLENTY of places to avoid PvP in Norrath.  If you need to level up to compete, be more smarter.  Ask for help.  Get a group.  Level and gear yourself up in an instance.  I don't mind.  I'm sorry more newbs don't know this, maybe there should be an automatic mail sent to your mailbox about the way life is on a pvp server.  A Welcome to the Jungle type mail about how there are people out there who have been working on their characters for MONTHS.  Tracking down every last Master.  Getting all fabled gear.  Stocking up on the best adornments.  Placing AA in just the right places, and in the tens of hundreds.  Getting the bestest, fastest, more resistyest horse they can find, so nothing you can cast will touch them. And they are out there.  Waiting for you.  Hunting you.  So be ready.  Get stronger.  Play smarter.  Just don't come to the forums after each time you die and ask that their left arm be tied behind their back, and that they be stabbed in the flank once with a poison blade before your fight starts. I don't want everyone to be able to make their toon as powerful as everyone else with ease.  It sucks the fun out of the game to me.  I remember when everything was harder in this game.  Leveling.  Crafting.  Not getting one-shotted by reds in open T6 zones.  Its all being too watered down, and these changes are moving towards the next bucket of water being added. I don't mind the lack of debt, or the limiting of AA... but this is a slippery slope, and I'm worried where the next step will bring us.  You may keep all the new players who are pleased as punch that they can compete now in their island gear at level 23, but what about the competitors who are just sick of the vanilla flavoring that keeps getting added by the cupful?

I'm new to this game, I've only been playin for about a month. I have to say that I agree with this guy. If people want to twink and lvl lock, let them do it. I've been killed countless times by these twinkers, i can tell they are twinked cause they eat through me like butter. I personaly don't see where any kinda of satisfaction comes form killin someone so far below, but thats the right they have. Let people get tons of aa's. Let them have all master abilities and fabled armor. If they invested the time to get it, then they deserve to have it. I admit it sux gettin killed by them, but i just try to roll with it... I am on a pvp server.  So what I'm gettin to is eliminate the pvp lvl range. sure you'll get choped down by a high lvl periodicaly, but from my experience people come to help when called. If some high lvl kills you, send out a shout. And the up side is, if a twink is bothering you, send out a call to a high lvl to mop him up.  Just my 2 c.

[Harbringer Doom]

Azrephail wrote:

I'm new to this game, I've only been playin for about a month. I have to say that I agree with this guy. If people want to twink and lvl lock, let them do it. I've been killed countless times by these twinkers, i can tell they are twinked cause they eat through me like butter. I personaly don't see where any kinda of satisfaction comes form killin someone so far below, but thats the right they have. Let people get tons of aa's. Let them have all master abilities and fabled armor. If they invested the time to get it, then they deserve to have it. I admit it sux gettin killed by them, but i just try to roll with it... I am on a pvp server.  So what I'm gettin to is eliminate the pvp lvl range. sure you'll get choped down by a high lvl periodicaly, but from my experience people come to help when called. If some high lvl kills you, send out a shout. And the up side is, if a twink is bothering you, send out a call to a high lvl to mop him up.  Just my 2 c.

I'd love it.  Remove the caps! Oh, and by the way, my lil guard is what one would call a twink.  He dies all the time.  He kills alot of people, but people can compete if they want to.