Please change RIFT back to its very low aggro state as pre LU35 - Page 2

Pilgrim Divine · 06-09-2007, 03:21 PM

the devs response is this: "It now generates aggro like any other spell does for its damage. Previous, it almost did not deal any aggro. You can try combos with Freehand/Catalyst though." so, although it wasnt in the notes, we are stuck with it. An unusable major spell on raids that was currently working just fine with no one ever complaining it was over powered etc. So unless you're lucky enough to have the raid built around your own personal hate decrease needs, may as well keep it for soloing or grping when u have amends. nice going. oh,and thanks for having the decency to tell us. /off to LOTRO

itsmelen · 06-09-2007, 06:32 PM

Well, thanks for at least responding, Devs. Nice of you to do it after the fact, though. I guess that patch note before you totally changed the utility of the spell would have cost too much in terms of labor? Anyway, the nerf is b.s. What the devs don't seem to understand is that holding single target aggro is TEN TIMES easier than holding AoE aggro. Taunts + CA + Auto-Attack + Riposte >>>> Aoe Taunt for every other mob in the encounter. So, that means that the theshhold to pull aggro away from the tank is much lower on the non-targeted mobs. When you start with this fact of life, AoE spells already have reduced utility. Throw in the fact that Wizards' single target spells do more damage, they have more single target spells, and their spells don't take as long to cast, you've just thrown the sorceror balance completely out of whack. On top of that, Sol Ro was basically made for wizards, as wizards can spec to turn EVERY spell into a fire based, thereby maximizing the procs given from the sol ro questline, thereby upping their DPS even more. ON TOP OF THAT, Wizzies get manaburn, which is the ultimate moneyshot. See you all in LOTRO. You totally screwed this up, SoE. Totally.

KrAzE1 · 06-09-2007, 09:16 PM

Aftershock owns Manaburn and Lifeburn both Itsmelen! LOLOLOLOL Thankyou SOE, may we have another? ESAD! (batter,batter,batter....Swing)

itsmelen · 06-09-2007, 11:21 PM

Sorry dude but Manaburn >> Aftershock. Perhaps at the most basic of levels they can be considered equal in that they will represent the same amount of DPS increase over the course of a long period of time. But wizards can control when Manaburn goes off, and warlocks can't control when aftershocks go off. That means that the wizard can decide when the damage is worth the aggro, whereas warlocks are left to the mercy of the die rolls. Wizards can crit on manaburn for between 75-100K. They are not even close. This is similar to the argument I see when conjurors try to say that unabate is equal to lifeburn. False. I have both classes at T7 and both have their respective abilities, and lifeburn is 10 times better. But, whatever. That's another story. The point here is that Manaburn > Aftershocks, and generally Wizard AAs> Warlock AAs.

KrAzE1 · 06-10-2007, 11:18 AM

I'm sorry Itsmelen, but somehow you missed the sarcasm in my above post. Sarcasm from Greek σαρκασμός (sarkasmos), 'mockery, sarcasm' is sneering, jesting, or mocking at a person, situation or thing. Aftershocks is a joke.

itsmelen · 06-10-2007, 08:38 PM

Well, your post makes much more sense, in that case SMILEY

Sarcasm tends to be lost over the internet. BTW SOE: SMILEY

N2de · 06-11-2007, 02:45 PM

itsmelen wrote:

Well, thanks for at least responding, Devs. Nice of you to do it after the fact, though. I guess that patch note before you totally changed the utility of the spell would have cost too much in terms of labor? Anyway, the nerf is b.s. What the devs don't seem to understand is that holding single target aggro is TEN TIMES easier than holding AoE aggro. Taunts + CA + Auto-Attack + Riposte >>>> Aoe Taunt for every other mob in the encounter. So, that means that the theshhold to pull aggro away from the tank is much lower on the non-targeted mobs. When you start with this fact of life, AoE spells already have reduced utility. Throw in the fact that Wizards' single target spells do more damage, they have more single target spells, and their spells don't take as long to cast, you've just thrown the sorceror balance completely out of whack. On top of that, Sol Ro was basically made for wizards, as wizards can spec to turn EVERY spell into a fire based, thereby maximizing the procs given from the sol ro questline, thereby upping their DPS even more. ON TOP OF THAT, Wizzies get manaburn, which is the ultimate moneyshot. See you all in LOTRO. You totally screwed this up, SoE. Totally.

Well said,

And the list goes on...

1. Lets not forget our utility (or lack there of) Wizzards get Evac, Conj get CoH, Necros get FD, Warlcoks get screwed!

2. The one cool thing that warlcoks had SOE took away, our un-breakable but not un-resistable group root.

3. Nil Crystals, [I cannot control my vocabulary]? Whats the point? Just to be annoying? Is this an attempt to make us cast our **Cough** Uber debuffs?

4. Dehate/Protections lines.. What a Joke! These line will obviuosly lower dps, ([I cannot control my vocabulary]) we can do this by casting less? Pointless!

5. Proc gear!!! Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to pro Wizzy (Example, aITEM -629567489 1633143627:Mystical Orb of the Invoker/a -- or -- aITEM 579587842 -219290335:Bone-Clasped Girdle/a ... just two off the top of my head.

6. Now the stupid mother [I cannot control my vocabulary] Rift.

I just cancled 3 accounts, and will not return. I'm seriously sick of this, it makes no sence.

70 Warlock, 100 AA, 50-70 Mastered, 90% Fabled, and worthless.

Dasein-07 · 06-11-2007, 04:29 PM

I really don't understand Sony's logic here. Warlocks by far have the most trouble with agro as it is. So you take our one non-agro nuke and make it agro? Rift was a great tool for strating out multi-mob battles. Good damage, no-agro, offset by the need to be close for the area to hit the mob and a long cast. With agro added, this spell has lost its greatest utility. Casting it now in the early stages of a multi-mob fight will get you dead fast.

Rift will still be usefull for pvp when agro is a given, but for pve I just don't see myself casting it very often. Please change Rift back or for God's sake, give up some better agro management than 4% hate transfer and one single and one area detaunt.

KrAzE1 · 06-12-2007, 04:26 PM

Heres a good laugh for you. Once your through laughing try and explain why you rarely ever get a answer from a dev here on the "official" SOE forums and are ignored for the most part but a forum moderator is always close by to lock your thread.

Then go to another board where posting "flames" (you know the one) is allowed and you actually have developers posting and replying to issues. Someone tell me the logic in that. If this thread wouldnt get locked faster than you can blick your eyes I could post numerous links for your viewing pleasure. Its a shame we couldnt get feedback here and maybe it would even stay civil if we get just get some feedback. Also stealth nerfs without explanation only anger's your customers and they lash out like in the post that just got locked.

Formerly Bbert · 06-12-2007, 06:02 PM

Oh just great. I finally decide to level up my warlock so I can switch my main from being a Guardian that is just extra space on a raid (since we have another Guard that is the MT) and now I find we are nerfed to uselessness. It is strange that no developers post here. Even the Guardian boards at least get a developer answering the questions and believe me, SoE doesn't like the Guardian class either. Lakahu Lakasok - 70 Kerra Guardian Permafrost Server Bbert Boneblaster - 63 Gnome Warlock Permafrost Server Proud member of Silent Redemption

EpokSilvermo · 06-12-2007, 07:18 PM

Lakashu@Permafrost wrote:

I find we are nerfed to uselessness.

I couldn't agree less SMILEY

Hellswrath · 06-12-2007, 07:23 PM

Don't worry, everyone! They are changing the AA lines! That will surely provide a balancing fix for our class! Oh, wait.....that would mean we aren't balanced.....EOF AA anyone? lol

I can't wait to see how the new AA ~~nerfs~~ changes complicate the issue.

Sydias · 06-12-2007, 09:34 PM

You know, I wouldn't mind the change so much if we had a otu of encounter de-agro that actually helped.

5000 Hate to everything in the area..... 750 de-agro to everything in the area.... I don't know any tanks that can generate enough hate to keep things off of me unless it is a pally with amends on me, or if I wait so long that I only have a chance to hit half of the mobs that were pulled. Even then I bet I'll pull agro off of them.

Even my coercer has an out of encounter de-agro that scales with him and at lvl 70 it's a blue de-agro for ~1,200. The only out of encounter attack the coercer has hits for 2600 max and has a 4 second stun attached. Lots of time to use the de-agro too.

Please give us a de-agro to help us out, or a stronger hate transfer.

06-09-2007, 09:16 PM	#33
KrAzE1 Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 54	Aftershock owns Manaburn and Lifeburn both Itsmelen! LOLOLOLOL Thankyou SOE, may we have another? ESAD! (batter,batter,batter....Swing) __________________

06-10-2007, 11:18 AM	#35
KrAzE1 Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 54	I'm sorry Itsmelen, but somehow you missed the sarcasm in my above post. Sarcasm from Greek σαρκασμός (sarkasmos), 'mockery, sarcasm' is sneering, jesting, or mocking at a person, situation or thing. Aftershocks is a joke. __________________

06-10-2007, 08:38 PM	#36
itsmelen Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 67	Well, your post makes much more sense, in that case Sarcasm tends to be lost over the internet. BTW SOE:

06-11-2007, 02:45 PM	#37
N2de General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 27	itsmelen wrote: Well, thanks for at least responding, Devs. Nice of you to do it after the fact, though. I guess that patch note before you totally changed the utility of the spell would have cost too much in terms of labor? Anyway, the nerf is b.s. What the devs don't seem to understand is that holding single target aggro is TEN TIMES easier than holding AoE aggro. Taunts + CA + Auto-Attack + Riposte >>>> Aoe Taunt for every other mob in the encounter. So, that means that the theshhold to pull aggro away from the tank is much lower on the non-targeted mobs. When you start with this fact of life, AoE spells already have reduced utility. Throw in the fact that Wizards' single target spells do more damage, they have more single target spells, and their spells don't take as long to cast, you've just thrown the sorceror balance completely out of whack. On top of that, Sol Ro was basically made for wizards, as wizards can spec to turn EVERY spell into a fire based, thereby maximizing the procs given from the sol ro questline, thereby upping their DPS even more. ON TOP OF THAT, Wizzies get manaburn, which is the ultimate moneyshot. See you all in LOTRO. You totally screwed this up, SoE. Totally. Well said, And the list goes on... 1. Lets not forget our utility (or lack there of) Wizzards get Evac, Conj get CoH, Necros get FD, Warlcoks get screwed! 2. The one cool thing that warlcoks had SOE took away, our un-breakable but not un-resistable group root. 3. Nil Crystals, [I cannot control my vocabulary]? Whats the point? Just to be annoying? Is this an attempt to make us cast our Cough Uber debuffs? 4. Dehate/Protections lines.. What a Joke! These line will obviuosly lower dps, ([I cannot control my vocabulary]) we can do this by casting less? Pointless! 5. Proc gear!!! Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to pro Wizzy (Example, aITEM -629567489 1633143627:Mystical Orb of the Invoker/a -- or -- aITEM 579587842 -219290335:Bone-Clasped Girdle/a ... just two off the top of my head. 6. Now the stupid mother [I cannot control my vocabulary] Rift. I just cancled 3 accounts, and will not return. I'm seriously sick of this, it makes no sence. 70 Warlock, 100 AA, 50-70 Mastered, 90% Fabled, and worthless.

06-12-2007, 04:26 PM	#39
KrAzE1 Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 54	Heres a good laugh for you. Once your through laughing try and explain why you rarely ever get a answer from a dev here on the "official" SOE forums and are ignored for the most part but a forum moderator is always close by to lock your thread. Then go to another board where posting "flames" (you know the one) is allowed and you actually have developers posting and replying to issues. Someone tell me the logic in that. If this thread wouldnt get locked faster than you can blick your eyes I could post numerous links for your viewing pleasure. Its a shame we couldnt get feedback here and maybe it would even stay civil if we get just get some feedback. Also stealth nerfs without explanation only anger's your customers and they lash out like in the post that just got locked. __________________

06-09-2007, 03:21 PM	#31
Pilgrim Divine Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 137	the devs response is this: "It now generates aggro like any other spell does for its damage. Previous, it almost did not deal any aggro. You can try combos with Freehand/Catalyst though." so, although it wasnt in the notes, we are stuck with it. An unusable major spell on raids that was currently working just fine with no one ever complaining it was over powered etc. So unless you're lucky enough to have the raid built around your own personal hate decrease needs, may as well keep it for soloing or grping when u have amends. nice going. oh,and thanks for having the decency to tell us. /off to LOTRO

06-09-2007, 06:32 PM	#32
itsmelen Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 67	Well, thanks for at least responding, Devs. Nice of you to do it after the fact, though. I guess that patch note before you totally changed the utility of the spell would have cost too much in terms of labor? Anyway, the nerf is b.s. What the devs don't seem to understand is that holding single target aggro is TEN TIMES easier than holding AoE aggro. Taunts + CA + Auto-Attack + Riposte >>>> Aoe Taunt for every other mob in the encounter. So, that means that the theshhold to pull aggro away from the tank is much lower on the non-targeted mobs. When you start with this fact of life, AoE spells already have reduced utility. Throw in the fact that Wizards' single target spells do more damage, they have more single target spells, and their spells don't take as long to cast, you've just thrown the sorceror balance completely out of whack. On top of that, Sol Ro was basically made for wizards, as wizards can spec to turn EVERY spell into a fire based, thereby maximizing the procs given from the sol ro questline, thereby upping their DPS even more. ON TOP OF THAT, Wizzies get manaburn, which is the ultimate moneyshot. See you all in LOTRO. You totally screwed this up, SoE. Totally.

06-09-2007, 11:21 PM	#34
itsmelen Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 67	Sorry dude but Manaburn >> Aftershock. Perhaps at the most basic of levels they can be considered equal in that they will represent the same amount of DPS increase over the course of a long period of time. But wizards can control when Manaburn goes off, and warlocks can't control when aftershocks go off. That means that the wizard can decide when the damage is worth the aggro, whereas warlocks are left to the mercy of the die rolls. Wizards can crit on manaburn for between 75-100K. They are not even close. This is similar to the argument I see when conjurors try to say that unabate is equal to lifeburn. False. I have both classes at T7 and both have their respective abilities, and lifeburn is 10 times better. But, whatever. That's another story. The point here is that Manaburn > Aftershocks, and generally Wizard AAs> Warlock AAs.

06-11-2007, 04:29 PM	#38
Dasein-07 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 15	I really don't understand Sony's logic here. Warlocks by far have the most trouble with agro as it is. So you take our one non-agro nuke and make it agro? Rift was a great tool for strating out multi-mob battles. Good damage, no-agro, offset by the need to be close for the area to hit the mob and a long cast. With agro added, this spell has lost its greatest utility. Casting it now in the early stages of a multi-mob fight will get you dead fast. Rift will still be usefull for pvp when agro is a given, but for pve I just don't see myself casting it very often. Please change Rift back or for God's sake, give up some better agro management than 4% hate transfer and one single and one area detaunt.

06-12-2007, 06:02 PM	#40
Formerly Bbert Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 92	Oh just great. I finally decide to level up my warlock so I can switch my main from being a Guardian that is just extra space on a raid (since we have another Guard that is the MT) and now I find we are nerfed to uselessness. It is strange that no developers post here. Even the Guardian boards at least get a developer answering the questions and believe me, SoE doesn't like the Guardian class either. Lakahu Lakasok - 70 Kerra Guardian Permafrost Server Bbert Boneblaster - 63 Gnome Warlock Permafrost Server Proud member of Silent Redemption __________________

06-12-2007, 07:18 PM	#41
EpokSilvermo General Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 160	Lakashu@Permafrost wrote: I find we are nerfed to uselessness. I couldn't agree less

06-12-2007, 07:23 PM	#42
Hellswrath Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,036	Don't worry, everyone! They are changing the AA lines! That will surely provide a balancing fix for our class! Oh, wait.....that would mean we aren't balanced.....EOF AA anyone? lol I can't wait to see how the new AA ~~nerfs~~ changes complicate the issue. __________________

06-12-2007, 09:34 PM	#43
Sydias Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 218	You know, I wouldn't mind the change so much if we had a otu of encounter de-agro that actually helped. 5000 Hate to everything in the area..... 750 de-agro to everything in the area.... I don't know any tanks that can generate enough hate to keep things off of me unless it is a pally with amends on me, or if I wait so long that I only have a chance to hit half of the mobs that were pulled. Even then I bet I'll pull agro off of them. Even my coercer has an out of encounter de-agro that scales with him and at lvl 70 it's a blue de-agro for ~1,200. The only out of encounter attack the coercer has hits for 2600 max and has a 4 second stun attached. Lots of time to use the de-agro too. Please give us a de-agro to help us out, or a stronger hate transfer. __________________ Dukou Tyranus - Lvl 70 Half-elf Dirge (Antonia Bayle) Nukor - Lvl 70 Dark Elf Warlock (Antonia Bayle) Fuzzles Fuzzikins - Lvl 52 Fae Paladin (Antonia Bayle) Durge - Lvl 70 Iksar Coercer (Antonia Bayle) Xizor - Lvl 67 Dark Elf Brigand(Antonia Bayle)