PvP changes coming in GU 36

[Metal_Starz]

   I can see nerfing some of the classes huge hits but not everything that makes that class stand out. I like pvp the way it is now. Swash's don't have any huge hits and have a couple timers that can be avoided easily if you know how to play your class.    The only problem with in combat run speed is the furies. Don't nerf them completely but just give them a reduction in speed. How the hell are we all supposed to beat a warden??? They can already out heal just about anyones damage the way things are now. Soe needs to stop looking at strictly 1v1 and quit reading the whiners spam posts that can't play their class. Grpvgrp is fine the way it is. Soe said themselves this game is meant to play as a group and encourages it more than soloing. A good grpvgrp fight can last forever also. If you pick a class that doesn't solo well but does really well in grps that is your choice. Pretty soon there aren't going to be any classes and everyone gets a blank character that does exactly the same as everyone else so there are no ups and downs for pvp.

[Myxzptlk]

shaunfletcher wrote:

Bookbunny wrote:

Why is in-combat run speed so terrible?  It's being used so that someone can get away, not so they can slaughter people. 

Its used so (some, and only selected ones) people can pick and choose if they wish to stay and fight when they are losing, while most having started a fight have to stay and fight. Its also used IN fight to avoid damage and deal damage with partial immunity. It makes classes that dont have it be heavily disadvantaged in many ways.

That's the beauty of it, to be able to move faster than your opponents when it gets hairy. Some classes have a good chance in a long or moderately long fight melee range, while others have to do their damage early and with surprise and make it stick or they lose. Run speed is a class defining ability, as much as healing. It's like, if a fury engages a target with their offensive spells and the target doesnt drop, but attacks back, you dont expect the fury to stand there and take the damage and just keep pumping out offensive damage. They naturally heal themselves. Now if you have a person who has a top heavy amount of damage but cant do much in a melee fight, like a ranger, then you expect that character to do their damage at range and run around and away from the enemy when and if their front damage isnt enough to take the character out. "You have to stand there and die" is just ridiculous when you don't have a stand their and take it kinda character. I've played a berzerker and a ranger, and i think i maybe ran from about 1 percent of my berzerker fights, because that is not the forte of the class. A berzerker can stand toe to toe with any class and take the damage, not winning always, but not being sliced and diced like some of the other characters who have to have a great first strike or die.

[Raidyen]

first, 1.5 aa is just stupid.  level 9 (*2) per level is the way to do this.  This is a nerf i can deal with.

 Second DPS reduction.  As a swashy, i understand my classes power in pvp.  I should not be killing even con's in less then 4 seconds.  This is an acceptable nerf.  HOWEVER, if you are lowering our damage output, then heals need to be lowered as well.  You cannot reduce our damage by 25 percent, and then not touch how much  fury/warden can heal for.  One on One, that would make killing a healer impossible.  Fix this before you nerf our DPS. 

 Third, In combat run speed.  I look at this as an offensive ability.  Right now at 45 percent run speed, there are classes that can engage me, and keep up with me while i try and escape.  However i think this is a massive nerf to rangers.  On top of taking away that ability, they are reducing roots and snares.  Every ranger in the game i think will be respecing to the melee line.  (Buy some remedy potions people, snares and roots become irrelivent)

Sony you need to be careful here.  you are walking a fine line between balancing combat, and turning everyone into the same class.  PvP combat should not be stand toe to toe and mash combat arts, which honestly is what this is going to do.  Each class needs to stay unique, and have thier own advantages and disadvantages in PvP combat.  Also DO NOT balance based off one on one combat.  Tanks and AoE players gain alot of power when fighting in group on group, which more then makes up for what they lack in one on one fighting.

On a Side note,  FIX THE CARNAGE IN KELETHIN.  Thank you, that is all.

[Mournblades]

[xenocide85]

What's the point of limiting AA to 1.5x your clvl?  If you didn't want people to get more than a certain number of AA at a given level, then why did you make it x5 easier to get AA with the release of EoF.  I remember when having 35 AA at lvl 45 was ridiculously good, and it took a lot of skill and effort to get.  And it actually meant something b/c the only other people who had that advantage where those who invested the countless time doing every quest and killing every named to get there. But now, as usual, you developers are making reactionary changes to the game over non-issue "problems" that have been existing for so long, that by nerfing them you're nullifying hours and hours spent by certain people pursuing various pvp/AA strategies.  So now, for all those ppl who invested the time in acruing AA, they can't use it, and since the EoF expansion made getting AA easier, more ppl will have 1.5x AA at their lvl without having to work for it.  You singlehanded just robbed the fun of level locking and for what?  AA only helps level lockers and most people who level lock do so with the intention of getting AA.  I don't understand what isn't fair about this...  Most level lockers either (1) fight the people who are leveling up to 70 as they pass their tier - people who wouldn't have a chance anyways b/c the lockers have been gear...  or they fight bots...  or they fight other level lockers.  And obviously having max AA isn't a T7/end game imbalance issue.  I just think this is a terrible change.

[Meatmonster]

 I think it's worth mentioning that the change to the Belt of Gateways is STILL a broken combo, and it's something that can be used a whole lot more often now.  In the old days, a Swashbuckler with En Garde Master 1 could once an hour  riposte/parry every auto attack/CA and take no damage, while dealing 365-608 damage for each auto attack/CA for 10 seconds.  Now, a Swashbuckler with En Garde Master 1 can every 10 minutes  parry every auto attack/CA and take no damage while dealing 323-538 damage for each auto attack/CA for 10 seconds.  That's still allows them to do massive damage quickly while taking none from melee themselves, but now they can do it a whole lot more often.  

[EQ2Playa432]

My additions are in red. spammy wrote:

DementedGerbil wrote:

 IMHO...

General

• Damage was reduced at the higher levels based on class. Rogues, predators, sorcerers and summoners had the greatest reduction.  Druids, enchanters and brawlers fall in the middle while the others had lower amounts of damage reduction.  The goal being to introduce more strategy in PvP at the high end.
• In combat run speeds will now suspend during PvP cmbat, except for the bard achievement which grants in-combat run speed to Selo's.
• XP debt has been removed from pvp servers.

Assassin

• Reduced the duration of the root effect for the Freezing Strike line
• Reduced the damage of Assassinate and Decapitate. I think this was needed.

Brigand

• Double up should only work on spells cast in the last second instead of last 2 seconds. (with how alor of brigs macro spells i doubt this will change much)
• Lowered the debuff amount on Devitalize and Dispatch(this could be helpfull in pvp if it was lowered correctly, lord knows us caters are paper thin w/o this) This was also needed.
• Reduced the stun duration on the Low Blow line. Brigs have many stuns any way, so one reduction may bring them a little closer to a balanced pvper.

Bruiser

• Reduced the duration of Drag(thank god) I am hoping that they didn't completely kill this ability. Maybe brought it to 3.5 seconds or something, but any shorter just makes it  a stun.

Coercer

• Lowered the damage done by Cataclysmic mind and its associated spells.(no comment as i rarely encounter coercers) Is this the reactive one? If so I think it should have been lowered a bit, but coercers need some other firepower besides just standing and taking damage and killing the opposition with procs.

Fury

• Reduced the duration of the root line(as long as it isint reduced too much its a good change imho) As long as it isn't reduced badly, just like Drag.

Monk

• The Evade achievement should now cause your target to lose its target like scout evade skills do.

Ranger

• The Hunter's Instinct line will now buff out of combat speed rather than in combat speed. (hello? ranger u need to be able to move around "in combat" It's going to suck for rangers who don't know their class well but some rangers I talked to don't seem that upset.
• Reduced the duration and range of Hook Arrow(gets resisted all the time, but very usefull for those who like to hide atop stuff, this is a bad change) I like this change. But again, not enough to make the range barely anything or the ability underpowered.
• Reduced the root duration of the Lung line (guess rangers are not ment to solo pvp acording to soe, what good is a ranger if they cant stay at ranged, alot go shield spec just b/c duel weild is pointless since melee is crap for a ranger, a very bad change imho)
• Reduced the snare duration on the Leg Shot line. (same deal as above, stupid if a ranger cant stay at range)
• Reduced the damage done by the Sniper Shot line.(its on a 6 second cast, requires u to be invis, at range, give them a break they dont have much else)
• ( rangers are getting screwed big time imho and this is coming from somebody who dosent even play one, but i do know how they work, and you can see there getting the nerf bat hard, protest i say!!) Eh, not really sure on this. It seems rangers are getting hurt pretty hard.

Necromancer

• Lowered the duration of control effects on the fighter pet.(BAD SOE!! us summoners conj and necro are already one of the worst pvp class's to solo with, we should be getting buffs not nerfs) I agree with the yellow, what were they thinking? If anything, conjurors need to receive more control effects to equal necromancers.

Shadowknight

• Reduced the damage to the Harm Touch line.(yea ht sucks but its only once every so often, let them keep it imho and make it harder to hit). Good change, insta-cast spells should not do crazy damage.

Swashbuckler

• Lowered the damage on Inspired Daring
• Lowered the damage to En Garde.  It will also now use mitigation and can be dodged, blocked, parried and deflected in PvP combat.
• Needed but will it bring swashbucklers down from one of the most overpowered classes with overpowered abilities.
• (swash's are pretty on par with where they should be i see o reason for the changes)

 Warden

• Reduced the duration of Root and Snare lines.(they never worked that well to begin with, i see no need for the change in pvp) As long it wasn't that much of a nerf.

Wizard

• Reduced the damage of Ice Comet
• Reduced the damage of Fusion
• leave the dmg, make it 50% harder to land imho
• I think reducing the damage was a good idea. In a close fight (everyone is near each other) the wizard most likely won't be able to get these off fast enough or at least can't own someone after 2 spells. Commenting on the yellow, that is a bad idea beacuse damage should always come before resists. If they resist its no damage, but if the damage is scaled at least a chunk of health is gone.

Items

• Reduced the damage and heal on the Signet of Light From Darkness. (screw us casters over even more why dont ya!) Come on, everyone knows this item was overpowered in pvp anyway.
• Lowered the Malicious Assault bonus on the Brigand Interloper's Coat. Needed.
• The effect on the Belt of Gateways has been changed from 100% riposte to 100% parry. (as an exile ive never had one, so cant really comment) Sounds good.

It seems that SOE went with scaling back the big hitters instead of the 40% rule, which I think is a much better idea. I'm just hoping that these changes bring the classes slightly closer together. I do however think healing should be scaled a little now.

[Greeen-_-Ranger]

Kalian@Nagafen wrote:

My additions are in red. spammy wrote:

DementedGerbil wrote:

 IMHO...

General

• Damage was reduced at the higher levels based on class. Rogues, predators, sorcerers and summoners had the greatest reduction.  Druids, enchanters and brawlers fall in the middle while the others had lower amounts of damage reduction.  The goal being to introduce more strategy in PvP at the high end.
• In combat run speeds will now suspend during PvP cmbat, except for the bard achievement which grants in-combat run speed to Selo's.
• XP debt has been removed from pvp servers.

Assassin

• Reduced the duration of the root effect for the Freezing Strike line
• Reduced the damage of Assassinate and Decapitate. I think this was needed.

Brigand

• Double up should only work on spells cast in the last second instead of last 2 seconds. (with how alor of brigs macro spells i doubt this will change much)
• Lowered the debuff amount on Devitalize and Dispatch(this could be helpfull in pvp if it was lowered correctly, lord knows us caters are paper thin w/o this) This was also needed. 
• Reduced the stun duration on the Low Blow line. Brigs have many stuns any way, so one reduction may bring them a little closer to a balanced pvper.

Bruiser

• Reduced the duration of Drag(thank god) I am hoping that they didn't completely kill this ability. Maybe brought it to 3.5 seconds or something, but any shorter just makes it  a stun.

Coercer

• Lowered the damage done by Cataclysmic mind and its associated spells.(no comment as i rarely encounter coercers) Is this the reactive one? If so I think it should have been lowered a bit, but coercers need some other firepower besides just standing and taking damage and killing the opposition with procs.

Fury

• Reduced the duration of the root line(as long as it isint reduced too much its a good change imho) As long as it isn't reduced badly, just like Drag.

Monk

• The Evade achievement should now cause your target to lose its target like scout evade skills do.

Ranger

• The Hunter's Instinct line will now buff out of combat speed rather than in combat speed. (hello? ranger u need to be able to move around "in combat" It's going to suck for rangers who don't know their class well but some rangers I talked to don't seem that upset.
• Reduced the duration and range of Hook Arrow(gets resisted all the time, but very usefull for those who like to hide atop stuff, this is a bad change) I like this change. But again, not enough to make the range barely anything or the ability underpowered.
• Reduced the root duration of the Lung line (guess rangers are not ment to solo pvp acording to soe, what good is a ranger if they cant stay at ranged, alot go shield spec just b/c duel weild is pointless since melee is crap for a ranger, a very bad change imho)
• Reduced the snare duration on the Leg Shot line. (same deal as above, stupid if a ranger cant stay at range)
• Reduced the damage done by the Sniper Shot line.(its on a 6 second cast, requires u to be invis, at range, give them a break they dont have much else)
• ( rangers are getting screwed big time imho and this is coming from somebody who dosent even play one, but i do know how they work, and you can see there getting the nerf bat hard, protest i say!!) Eh, not really sure on this. It seems rangers are getting hurt pretty hard.

Necromancer

• Lowered the duration of control effects on the fighter pet.(BAD SOE!! us summoners conj and necro are already one of the worst pvp class's to solo with, we should be getting buffs not nerfs) I agree with the yellow, what were they thinking? If anything, conjurors need to receive more control effects to equal necromancers.

Shadowknight

• Reduced the damage to the Harm Touch line.(yea ht sucks but its only once every so often, let them keep it imho and make it harder to hit). Good change, insta-cast spells should not do crazy damage.

Swashbuckler

• Lowered the damage on Inspired Daring
• Lowered the damage to En Garde.  It will also now use mitigation and can be dodged, blocked, parried and deflected in PvP combat.
• Needed but will it bring swashbucklers down from one of the most overpowered classes with overpowered abilities.
• (swash's are pretty on par with where they should be i see o reason for the changes)

 Warden

• Reduced the duration of Root and Snare lines.(they never worked that well to begin with, i see no need for the change in pvp) As long it wasn't that much of a nerf.

Wizard

• Reduced the damage of Ice Comet
• Reduced the damage of Fusion
• leave the dmg, make it 50% harder to land imho
• I think reducing the damage was a good idea. In a close fight (everyone is near each other) the wizard most likely won't be able to get these off fast enough or at least can't own someone after 2 spells. Commenting on the yellow, that is a bad idea beacuse damage should always come before resists. If they resist its no damage, but if the damage is scaled at least a chunk of health is gone.

Items

• Reduced the damage and heal on the Signet of Light From Darkness. (screw us casters over even more why dont ya!) Come on, everyone knows this item was overpowered in pvp anyway.
• Lowered the Malicious Assault bonus on the Brigand Interloper's Coat. Needed.
• The effect on the Belt of Gateways has been changed from 100% riposte to 100% parry. (as an exile ive never had one, so cant really comment) Sounds good.

It seems that SOE went with scaling back the big hitters instead of the 40% rule, which I think is a much better idea. I'm just hoping that these changes bring the classes slightly closer together. I do however think healing should be scaled a little now.

So dispatch will become like the knockaround line or whatever, and kindof just a waste of time vs anyone who is wearing chain or better.  Yeaaaaa that was a needed nerf.  Stupid [Removed for Content] players who think that it's still that OP are idiots.

[The_Real_Ohno]

Ohnoez@Nagafen wrote:

Aeralik wrote:

Quarter@Venekor wrote:

And while you're at it, what's being done about ranged auto-attack damage?

Rangers can auto-attack you for 1k+ damage at range. I don't see how that didn't need a nerf but double-up somehow did need one?

That is part of the tweaking damage by level range.  High level ranged damage was tuned down in general.  Again its easily tweakable if its still too high so feel free to submit feedback on it.

So I hope melee auto attack dmg will be in line with ranged auto attack dmg with delays and such. 

Also Id like to know 2 things Aeralik if u can explain, since roots/snares are gettin there duration reduced, are u gonna take away the min distance to cast Ranged CAs in PvP or u gonna allow Rangers Ranged CAs to be casted on the move? I know our counter part does not have to stand still to cast any of there CAs ie Assassins. 

2nd are u going to give the classes that get hit with the root/snare nerfs a free respec?  As of right now, once this goes live, I have 21 AAs that imo are now useless in PvP. 

Thanks.

Aeralik, can u pls give some info on these questions?  Seems to be the biggest questions right now from us Rangers and this nerf.  Even if its "Im lookin into it", we need an answer pls.

[Microbolt]

Ohnoez@Nagafen wrote:

Aeralik, can u pls give some info on these questions?  Seems to be the biggest questions right now from us Rangers and this nerf.  Even if its "Im lookin into it", we need an answer pls.

Probably won't see an answer till atleast Monday.  Would be very surprised to see any dev responce on an weekend.

[Magius789]

Most of these changes I can understand and agree with and for the most part I think it will help PvP as long as the changes to dmg aren't to drastic.  I do think healers heals now need a bit scaled down.  But it seems to me that rangers are the only class that are loosing, or atleast being severely nerfed, there class defining abilities.  Havin us not be able to keep range is in a sense a HUGE dmg reduction because if we can't keep range then basically we can't attack.  All the CA's we have for melee range will not even come close to doing 1/4 of a person hp.  Unless they make a modification to how we attack these nerf will come very close to killing the ranger class.  Maybe someone at SOE needs to read the definition of a ranger from the character select screen....

[Elephanton]

Balrok wrote:

Will the PvP changes cause a mass scout drop in subscriptions?  If they so, SoE can shoot themselves in the foot, cause scout:mage ratio atm is 3:1.

Good point. All they really needed to do, is fix insane T7 resists problem for mages, and everyone would be happy.

Instead they are nerfing many classes, which will definitely make people upset. Some people were working on their toons for years, now these changes will change too much for some classes. Talking rangers, most people chosen this class for in-combat speed and built their toons around kiting, now they are taking out both our in-combat speed and nerfing hard our kiting appliances, leaving us with no other option but shelving our chars.

[Darkor]

I dont get the whining about Fury or Druid heals in General and noone even mentions powerfull Mystic/Defiler wards. Right now a good Swashy or Ranger destroys me in less  than 3 seconds. Yes you heard right - 3 seconds, not 4 or 5 seconds. Even a good Fusion can one shot me if timed right. Now please explain me how reducing Heals in General (not only druid heals!) are gonna help at all? Scouts DPS gets lowered BECAUSE noone can outheal that. Not even CLOSE. Now you ask for healing reduction and we end up in the same hole. Scouts own healers AGAIN without any problems. It doesnt make sense to me sorry. Yesterday i grouped with a medium well equipped 70 bruiser and we met a swashbuckler and i could not keep him alive. HELLO ???

Rangers auto attacks for 2024 dmg - after the nerf its prob arround 1.5k - i am not sure if that is low enough to stand against. And if you get your butt kicked by furys you are doing something wrong. Cause i surely cant stand 2k auto attacks followed by 2k Rain of arrows and snipershots or Insipiration + En Garde or 7k Fusions.

And just to clear up who i am. I am a 70 Fury with 100 AA points, 3 pieces of pvp gear including the chest piece. I have 50 % permanent incombat speed buff and even own the Ring of light and darkness. And guess what? Nothing of that saves me against certain classes.

You know whats funny? I see almost only Rangers complain, while Assassins take it as it is.

Ajjantis 70 Fury

Rasiel 70 Necromancer

Darkoran 42 Assassin

[Microbolt]

Ajjantis wrote:

Rangers auto attacks for 2024 dmg - after the nerf its prob arround 1.5k - i am not sure if that is low enough to stand against. And if you get your butt kicked by furys you are doing something wrong. Cause i surely cant stand 2k auto attacks followed by 2k Rain of arrows and snipershots or Insipiration + En Garde or 7k Fusions.

What most people dont relize is we have a long delay on the bow.  Run a parsing program.  Unless we get some lucky crits we do the same autoattack as every other melee class.  We do 1 hit for 2k, they do 5 hits for 400.  It evens out.  People just isolate the big hits.  Kinda of like  everyone complaining about sniper shot Sniper Shot.  Those spells have insane casting times.  If I use Sniper Shot my DPS actually goes down.  Only time I ever use it is for the utility (Knockback).  Rarely if ever do I use it in PvP.  In the 5 seconds it takes to cast sniper shot. I could cast 5 other CA's that does twice as much damage as sniper shot does.  They could change sniper shot to 500 damage and I wouldn't care. People will always find a reason to whine.

The only thing I do care about is these proposed changes to make it where an ranger is essentially useless.  The stuns/roots/snares we have are not just fluff.  Its very crucial in our fights.

[Strums]

I am so tired of people comming to the boards and posting about OP classes etc when they get owned...next thing you know big changes like these happen.  I just wish they would keep the rule set the same...for gods sake quit changing stuff.  The sad thing too, is that alot of people post wine threads simply because they cant play their class well, then all the other's jump on the wagon with um... I hope they have a button to select on the cancelation page of EQ2 asking why you quit, and it says "PvP is way to dumbed down"

[Captain Apple Darkberry]

Strums wrote:

I am so tired of people comming to the boards and posting about OP classes etc when they get owned...next thing you know big changes like these happen.  I just wish they would keep the rule set the same...for gods sake quit changing stuff.  The sad thing too, is that alot of people post wine threads simply because they cant play their class well, then all the other's jump on the wagon with um... I hope they have a button to select on the cancelation page of EQ2 asking why you quit, and it says "PvP is way to dumbed down"

Maybe so...   ...I think there was one for Classes are imbalanced...   ...and I guess enough people clicked it.

[Magius789]

Virii@Venekor wrote:

Ajjantis wrote:

Rangers auto attacks for 2024 dmg - after the nerf its prob arround 1.5k - i am not sure if that is low enough to stand against. And if you get your butt kicked by furys you are doing something wrong. Cause i surely cant stand 2k auto attacks followed by 2k Rain of arrows and snipershots or Insipiration + En Garde or 7k Fusions.

What most people dont relize is we have a long delay on the bow.  Run a parsing program.  Unless we get some lucky crits we do the same autoattack as every other melee class.  We do 1 hit for 2k, they do 5 hits for 400.  It evens out.  People just isolate the big hits.  Kinda of like  everyone complaining about sniper shot Sniper Shot.  Those spells have insane casting times.  If I use Sniper Shot my DPS actually goes down.  Only time I ever use it is for the utility (Knockback).  Rarely if ever do I use it in PvP.  In the 5 seconds it takes to cast sniper shot. I could cast 5 other CA's that does twice as much damage as sniper shot does.  They could change sniper shot to 500 damage and I wouldn't care. People will always find a reason to whine.

The only thing I do care about is these proposed changes to make it where an ranger is essentially useless.  The stuns/roots/snares we have are not just fluff.  Its very crucial in our fights.

Amen Virii.  My bow has a 7 second delay on it as oppossed to my daggers that are a second and a half.  Plus we have to stop casting our CA's for our auto attack to engage.  If we just keep casting CA's then we'll over ride our ranged auto attack.  From my experiences and talking with some very good rangers they say an equally equipped healer is very tough to beat so I'm not sure how you're fights are going Ajjantis.  Nerfing our root/snare abilities doesn't take away the dmg they do as much as it just stops us from being able to do ANY dmg.  Rangers aren't rangers if these changes go through.  All we are going to see is rangers camping cliff tops that are inaccessable by normal means.

[AveugleEtSourd]

i understand that the pvp classes may need to be balanced... but there's something i don't really understand, why are u stopping the xp debt in pvp...meaning that we don't have anymore the right to rise our char the way we want.I'd never like to xp in this game cause killing mob and doing quest make u xp so quickly that we miss 50% of the game..and actually i think that lvl up or not is decision not depending on soe but on myself .i pay every month to play so at least let me play my char the way i want...what's the interest if all char are the same when everybody's looking to built his own specific char.aa was great to make u're char a bit different than the other one, and everybody has the choice to lvl up xp or lvl up aa, so why are you nerfing that too.i can't stand the fact that now i won't have the freedom of lvling my toon the way i want. i spent time to lvl up aa and now i'll have to put all these point in my bank waiting to lvl up xp to use them...that's what i call standardisation, which is all i hate in a role play game where every char should have their own specification .   something else... did u ever try to kill a healer at low lvl like lvl 12 to 16?  try it and think about it.... maybe there's some more work needed there instead of flatening the all game forcing toon to evolve the same way... ps sorry for my english that's not my mother language

[Jim737]

OMG U have to be joking me about wizs reduction of spells.

Right now they are the most weak class in pvp and U want to ''take'' they their most used spells?

Next thing is mail of frost spell wiz ward spell. I cant uderstand why it engage battle when this spell is activated it cause no dmg on others and when U wear this spell and other class attak U U have no chance even to escape coz ward s gona active in 2 enemy shots so its like 2 secs .. then U have just one option wait for death.

I dont understand why when U cast manashield .... btw its ward spell as well combat is not engaged?

So what what to do? ..... leave wizs their dmg of spells and cancel combat engage of ward spells.

Eraak

[Broccoliswo]

Captain Apple Darkberry wrote:

Strums wrote:

I am so tired of people comming to the boards and posting about OP classes etc when they get owned...next thing you know big changes like these happen.  I just wish they would keep the rule set the same...for gods sake quit changing stuff.  The sad thing too, is that alot of people post wine threads simply because they cant play their class well, then all the other's jump on the wagon with um... I hope they have a button to select on the cancelation page of EQ2 asking why you quit, and it says "PvP is way to dumbed down"

Maybe so...   ...I think there was one for Classes are imbalanced...   ...and I guess enough people clicked it.

Not all classes are supposed to have an equal chance in solo PvP. How can you not understand that?

[Groma]

Being equal in 1 on 1 pvp is a far cry from 1 class being able to dominate EVERY other class in a 1v1.  Currently, i've never seen a good swashy lose if he is pvp specced.  One in my guild has chewed thru brawlers and plate tanks before i can land my first spell, and he is stunting half xegonite.  While i certainly enjoy being on his side, i assure you its not even close to balanced. Honestly, i think some of these changes have gone WAY overboard, but aside from the obvious(belt of gateways) you aren't going to fix it by crying on the boards.  If you see a legitimate problem with the changes, log your bum onto the test server next week, put some parse data together of some good 1v1/6v6 encounters and post them.  I assure you, Chris is not trying to [Removed for Content] pvp worse than it is, but he and a couple other devs tossing together 1v1's with classes they barely know how to play on the test server to make these decisions, and if you can prove that some of them take things too far i'd bet they will change them accordingly with the right data. Give it time folks, its not on test yet and there is no scheduled date for this to hit live servers.  Test it, log your data, take the time to make reasonable posts with constructive suggestions, and things will play out the way they should.  Crying about the nerfs when you haven't seen any more than a couple lines of text isn't going to fix the foreseeable problems.

[tass]

lol I was thinking the same thing. It wouldnt matter even if the dps of wizzys was increased 10 fold. No dmg is done when ur old buddy resist pops up to say high. Those poor robes are so screwed. On the upside those dam arrow wielding rangers cant get away at like 65% in combat or whatever it is. Furies cant take off like a bat out of hell and so on. WOOHOO. Of course I did see alot of the rangers things were nerfed there. I did however read a sort of side note that they added in there that healers and fighters or something like that would see minimal dmg reductions. First screw up. All that means is that now that the top classes are nerfed a bit (didn't really look like swashies got hit except in t7 and brigs got something to do with stuns and mig reduction) That leaves the dynamic duo of druids to kick some [Removed for Content] to the top. Granted without the aa's wardens aern't specing for melee anytime soon yet doesnt stop natural born ability to outheal anything. Along with the leather battlemage strike of thunder wielding fury's lol. Should be interesting.

[Groma]

I will say, one thing i think needs to be addressed about T7 pvp is the handful of spots in Barren Sky where you can jump off an island while engaged in pvp, take the death, pop up on recent lists, but drop no chest or lose fame for it.  I know on Vox there are a handful of titled folks that always fight near these spots(PoA pad, Tower near WW cloud platform) so they can just jump to save fame anytime it gets bad.  With fights lasting longer, it will make things much easier for these folks as they will have more time to get to these spots and force themselves onto someone's recent list with no personal loss but armor damage.  Make the cutoff for instant death half the distance it is now to eliminate the problem, or make it so that anyone that dies from falling below the world while engaged in pvp will lose/give fame at an unlimited range.

[CresentBlade]

Hate to break it to you scout classes you can kick and scream all you want. Nobody but other scouts are really gonna care, you have had it so easy for so long.

How about they dont do these updates on your class in trade for removal of your tracking or stealth....ya didnt think so. Everyone knows scouts are a easy class to play and win with, only ones that cant admitt it are the ones playing them right now.

[CresentBlade]

Broccolisword@Nagafen wrote:

Captain Apple Darkberry wrote:

Strums wrote:

I am so tired of people comming to the boards and posting about OP classes etc when they get owned...next thing you know big changes like these happen.  I just wish they would keep the rule set the same...for gods sake quit changing stuff.  The sad thing too, is that alot of people post wine threads simply because they cant play their class well, then all the other's jump on the wagon with um... I hope they have a button to select on the cancelation page of EQ2 asking why you quit, and it says "PvP is way to dumbed down"

Maybe so...   ...I think there was one for Classes are imbalanced...   ...and I guess enough people clicked it.

Not all classes are supposed to have an equal chance in solo PvP. How can you not understand that?

So lets nerf scouts till the dont have a equal chance in solo pvp, I am sure you could agree thats fair.

[Lildebbie]

well this looks like fun.  i don't see shaman getting hit with anything.  i would love to see some hps or ac awarded to the dog, but hey who cares.  now those scouts wont be so quick to try to gank lol.  /cry [Removed for Content] hehehehehehehehehehehe.  oh baby,  let the games begin.  only thing i have a problem with is HT reduction incoming just as soon as i got my halfling pally betrayed. /sigh.  oh well.  i look forward to the changes. 

[The_Real_Ohno]

Ajjantis wrote:

I dont get the whining about Fury or Druid heals in General and noone even mentions powerfull Mystic/Defiler wards. Right now a good Swashy or Ranger destroys me in less  than 3 seconds. Yes you heard right - 3 seconds, not 4 or 5 seconds. Even a good Fusion can one shot me if timed right. Now please explain me how reducing Heals in General (not only druid heals!) are gonna help at all? Scouts DPS gets lowered BECAUSE noone can outheal that. Not even CLOSE. Now you ask for healing reduction and we end up in the same hole. Scouts own healers AGAIN without any problems. It doesnt make sense to me sorry. Yesterday i grouped with a medium well equipped 70 bruiser and we met a swashbuckler and i could not keep him alive. HELLO ???

Rangers auto attacks for 2024 dmg - after the nerf its prob arround 1.5k - i am not sure if that is low enough to stand against. And if you get your butt kicked by furys you are doing something wrong. Cause i surely cant stand 2k auto attacks followed by 2k Rain of arrows and snipershots or Insipiration + En Garde or 7k Fusions.

And just to clear up who i am. I am a 70 Fury with 100 AA points, 3 pieces of pvp gear including the chest piece. I have 50 % permanent incombat speed buff and even own the Ring of light and darkness. And guess what? Nothing of that saves me against certain classes.

You know whats funny? I see almost only Rangers complain, while Assassins take it as it is.

Ajjantis 70 Fury

Rasiel 70 Necromancer

Darkoran 42 Assassin

Ya cause if u let a Ranger cast Sniper Shot after RoA then U are doing somethin wrong... u cant heal the dmg from all that while the Ranger is castin Sniper Shot?  Or break his Stealth?  Think U need to talk to some actualy good played Furys, cause your not doing a good job.

And yes ALL heals need to be toned down with this DMG nerf goes through.  A well played Fury (not u Ajjantis) CAN heal the burst dmg from a Ranger.  You prob just run around not even payin attenion to your surroundins, well that what it sounds like to me anyways.

[stryker268]

Aeralik wrote:

Quarter@Venekor wrote:

And while you're at it, what's being done about ranged auto-attack damage?

Rangers can auto-attack you for 1k+ damage at range. I don't see how that didn't need a nerf but double-up somehow did need one?

That is part of the tweaking damage by level range.  High level ranged damage was tuned down in general.  Again its easily tweakable if its still too high so feel free to submit feedback on it.

  Ok, this is just the worst news you could possibly give an entire class.  It's bad enough you want to take all the elements that might keep us alive in a fight, now you want to take away the lions share of any rangers dps.  Not only does this effect PVP rangers, it will also pretty much kill the PVE ranger as well.  A ranger is taken on a raid for one reason only, dps.  We have practically no utility other than a few debuffs.  You have taken away survelience as a viable option to consussive (which remained a usable ability for casters).  They changed the /target ability so that you can no longer use it with Amazing Shot to pull tough mobs.  We are already out-parsed by Assassins and Swashbucklers doing 3k+ dps and now you want to take the last thing that makes us useful as a class?

  Auto-attack damage is the lions share of our dps output, period.  Before I learned this the best I could ever parse was around 1100 dps.  With no other changes to gear or AA's my dps immeadiatly shot up to 1500-1700.  With some equipment changes and a respec to take advantage of this I can now parse  1800-2000 dps consistently, and I don't even have a good fabled bow.  Now you are telling me that not only are you going to take away any chance at a good PVP fight, but also the ability to be of any importance in my raid guild?

  I have been a faithful subscriber to EQII since launch.  I moved to a pvp server within days of it being available.  I have spent hundreds of hours lvling toons to support my Ranger via tradeskills.  I may not be the best ranger in EQII but I consider myself an asset and know what my class is capable of.   This last hit of the nerf bat you have listed in this thread has me seriously considering cancelling BOTH my accounts.  Now you tell me that that hit is even worse than what you first stated!!

  It's been a long time, but I believe that the real world is still out there, maybe it's time to get back to it and away from this game we call Evercrack.  Leave it for the farmers, lvl locks and newbs.  "And the meek shall inherit the earth."  Good job SOE.

[Broccoliswo]

CresentBlade wrote:

Hate to break it to you scout classes you can kick and scream all you want. Nobody but other scouts are really gonna care, you have had it so easy for so long.

How about they dont do these updates on your class in trade for removal of your tracking or stealth....ya didnt think so. Everyone knows scouts are a easy class to play and win with, only ones that cant admitt it are the ones playing them right now.

T1/T2 dps are supposed to be better in solo PvP than utility classes and tanks, fact. Their damage is their strong point, hence making them good at solo PvP. Tanks are not supposed to do well solo, although berserkers do. Utility classes are supposed to help in a group, hence why they are UTILITY classes. Healers are able to kill and do damage solo due to their nature, but are probably mostly group oriented too.

[Captain Apple Darkberry]

Broccolisword@Nagafen wrote:

Captain Apple Darkberry wrote:

Strums wrote:

I am so tired of people comming to the boards and posting about OP classes etc when they get owned...next thing you know big changes like these happen.  I just wish they would keep the rule set the same...for gods sake quit changing stuff.  The sad thing too, is that alot of people post wine threads simply because they cant play their class well, then all the other's jump on the wagon with um... I hope they have a button to select on the cancelation page of EQ2 asking why you quit, and it says "PvP is way to dumbed down"

Maybe so...   ...I think there was one for Classes are imbalanced...   ...and I guess enough people clicked it.

Not all classes are supposed to have an equal chance in solo PvP. How can you not understand that?

I do understand, and even agree...   ...but there comes a point when the imbalance is a little too much.  [Removed for Content] near everyone bitched at some point about the in-combat run speeds when they were introduced, that they were screwing up PvP.  But peeps just rolled the classes that abused them, and now that they are being nerfed, the thing people knew was going to happen, they are crying. It will still be a game of class archtypes which have their nemesis, but the disparity will be less. The reason people gripe is that it is a ~change~.  If it had been like this from the beginning people wouldn't give two [Removed for Content]... How can longer fights be bad...?   ...oh thats right...   ...tougher to gank for infamy and then run before someone else jumps in. Your just [Removed for Content] cause you rolled the most overpowered class and now it is getting nerfed to understandable levels...