Should Monks get Drag?

[KaelVolorus]

There has been discussion by monks on how they feel they should be given some love.  Several of them have commented on how useless our endline ability, Combination, is.  I'm going to remain unbiased in this conversation, since I'm purely interested in the opinions of everyone else regarding this topic. Should Monks get drag?  Why or why not?  If so, should it replace a current EOF AA ability?  If so, which one? I don't want to see this become some sort of Monk versus Bruiser war.  I'd like to see everyone's opinion on this.  Also, I posted this in the PVP Discussion forums because I'm interested in the opinions of those who would see it used in a PVP scenario.  I think we can all agree that Drag is a much bigger deal on PVP servers.

[Tanker1]

I wouldn't think they should/would get Drag. Doesn't every one class have their own unique EoF end abilities? Why should it be any different for Brawlers? I could see asking for Monks to get a better ability choice than they already have, but not asking for another classes identical ability, as the pattern is that they should be unique. If I am mistaken and other classes do share EoF endline abilities, I apologize for my error.

[Valarious]

I think drag should be removed permanatly.  Or nerfed.  Very powerful ability, especially in dungeons with ^^^ mobs.  Drag, feign death, = fame. 

[Mutant]

Drag + 70% sprint = no monks should not get it.

[Ameniel]

Valarious wrote:

I think drag should be removed permanatly.  Or nerfed.  Very powerful ability, especially in dungeons with ^^^ mobs.  Drag, feign death, = fame. 

Awww, poor baby...

[Tricit2]

ad hominid attack by the post above me makes the poster above me fail.

[Tanker1]

I think Hookshot should be removed permanatly.  Or nerfed.  Very powerful ability, especially in zones with guards.  Hookshot = fame.

[Borias]

Perhaps you should not pvp in areas with guards then, they tend to linger in just a couple spots.....

The drag thing though is a bit silly at times- like a gnome dragging off a full plate barbarian or ogre.  Maybe the person dragging should have the dragee's encumberance added to theirs.  Make you work for that ability.

I'm not sold one way or another yet on Monks and drag though.

[Agent2k]

    Like an above poster stated, the  EoF AA's are class based, so if one of the archetype classes get the ability, then the other should not.  And my opinion is that neither class should get drag, its silly in pvp and can be used for far too many "lame" acts such as dragging people off KoS islands for kicks.  Hell, the fact one bruiser could wipe an entire raid with this ability just by dragging the tank should prove how it can be abused in a way that makes it overpowered.  Not always overpowered and plenty of bruisers don't abuse it in a cheap fashion however on the other hand, many bruisers do.  Giving  it a resist check would help but would still have the same outcome if it lands.

     My answer: no monks shouldn't get it, and honestly either should bruisers or anyone else for that matter.

                                          Drytan

[Nerfed_bat]

My answer to this is Monk should not get drag as well...

 This ability is a unique ability to the bruiser, just like monk ability to grp FD and sprint speed and Sunami ...

As for the drag ability... yes it is over power ... Instead of asking it remove ... I still would like to see it ingame with a few changes/restrictions... such as

In order to use drag,

1. Can't use close mind or any ability that immune or resist stun / roots.

2. has to be in offensive stand, and positional where it would be a behind type of attack.

 Then during Dragging:

1. lower his agility and parry by half during dragging... so he is more vunerable to be attack by others during the drag

2. After drag finished, he cannot FD for 60 sec. (or just nerf FD where u can't use FD in PVP combat just like evac).

3. During drag, he is the leading toon so if mob agro, mob would agro the brusier first. and for falling to the death, it would be the bruiser that would die first because he is the one leading the fall.

---------------

 With the above restriction, the drag ability would be more balance with PVP where there are counters (like rooting or stunning the bruiser). And also the other restriction would prevent him from draging someone off cliff for fame cause he would die first (unless safe fall )... also it prevent bruiser from dragging someone into a ^^^ mob for fame as well..

[Tanker1]

Borias@Venekor wrote:

The drag thing though is a bit silly at times- like a gnome dragging off a full plate barbarian or ogre. 

Sigh. The old "realism" in a game thing again. A gnome dragging an ogre in plate is silly, but I guess it's not silly that the plate ogre should be able to sprint all over Antonica and jump down hillsides while in full plate. Also, don't forget swimming in full plate.

[Norrsken]

Tanker1 wrote:

Borias@Venekor wrote:

The drag thing though is a bit silly at times- like a gnome dragging off a full plate barbarian or ogre. 

Sigh. The old "realism" in a game thing again. A gnome dragging an ogre in plate is silly, but I guess it's not silly that the plate ogre should be able to sprint all over Antonica and jump down hillsides while in full plate. Also, don't forget swimming in full plate.

Or jumping off that nice waterfall drop in TT, with 6 huuuge boxes on him (That doesnt show btw) full with replacement armor and all sorts of funky stuff, and STILL not hit rock bottom in the small puddle at the bottom.

[Harbing]

KaelVolorus wrote:

There has been discussion by monks on how they feel they should be given some love.  Several of them have commented on how useless our endline ability, Combination, is.  I'm going to remain unbiased in this conversation, since I'm purely interested in the opinions of everyone else regarding this topic. Should Monks get drag?  Why or why not?  If so, should it replace a current EOF AA ability?  If so, which one? I don't want to see this become some sort of Monk versus Bruiser war.  I'd like to see everyone's opinion on this.  Also, I posted this in the PVP Discussion forums because I'm interested in the opinions of those who would see it used in a PVP scenario.  I think we can all agree that Drag is a much bigger deal on PVP servers.

No we shouldnt get drag for the sake of class diversity. But seriously look at the monk EoF (end) line abilities and make it into something more usefull for PvP please (eg. Combination is an attack which can only be made if you successfully excecute a rapid kick/punch/jab combo within 2 secs before and then you have a very short timeframe to hit Combination [0.5s] ). If you miss the timeframe or one of your needed combo moves hasnt landed you cant use it; if you lag out just a bit you cant use it. Well, if you succed you get an unavoidable attack which does rhoughly 200-400 dam (which still will be mitigated) and can strike up to 3 times. Unnecessary to say that by rapidly smashing 3 CAs you ll loose the autoattack in between and, depending on your weapon(s), the whole damage you might get out of Combination is negated. My other gripe is about the De-aggro stance and the Deaggro we can get. Last time i checked (about 4 weeks ago) they did absolutely nothing in PvP, eg. they didnt make your enemy loose you as a target. I realize that the De-aggro stance with its 50% chance to proc might be too overpowered but why not make it scale in PvP to like 15-20% ? So to conclude, no as a Monk i dont want drag. Its been given to Bruisers so let it be theirs but give Monks something similar unique in return. Caine Darathar

[Tanker1]

Nice post, Harbinger

[Gokai]

[Removed for Content] jealosy kills first of if your goin to nerf drag, nerf inspiration and en garde first cuz seriosly [Removed for Content] hey if monks want drag thats fine just give bruisers tsunami in return fair trade tbh

[Bozidar]

Borias@Venekor wrote:

Perhaps you should not pvp in areas with guards then, they tend to linger in just a couple spots.....

The drag thing though is a bit silly at times- like a gnome dragging off a full plate barbarian or ogre.  Maybe the person dragging should have the dragee's encumberance added to theirs.  Make you work for that ability.

I'm not sold one way or another yet on Monks and drag though.

LOL.. then pvp in zones w/o bruisers.

What an ridiculous comment.  You tell one guy not to pvp in areas with guards (where do you think the Qs always run? and no.. they're virtually all over in zones like Ant) and then say drag is sily.  They're BOTH broken.  You shouldn't be able to move another player in pvp.. sorry.

Remove drag and hookshot from pvp, period.  Make them do something else for pvp.. but movement of other players borks the game.

[loveybutt]

Tanker1 wrote:

I think Hookshot should be removed permanatly.  Or nerfed.  Very powerful ability, especially in zones with guards.  Hookshot = fame.

L2level and you wont have that problem...

[Bozidar]

loveybutt wrote:

Tanker1 wrote:

I think Hookshot should be removed permanatly.  Or nerfed.  Very powerful ability, especially in zones with guards.  Hookshot = fame.

L2level and you wont have that problem...

What an absolutely inspired response.

So you're saying if a raid is hitting a contested mob, a couple of rangers can't use hook-shot to pull off the same raid-wipe as a bruiser can?  you're just not thinking it through

I've been multi-hooked to a guard before.. i dont go near them since i learned that lesson... but it turns out you don't HAVE to go near them to get hooked to them.

Leveling isn't the answer to hookshot, removing arts (beyond normal knockbacks) that move a player is the answer.

[loveybutt]

Bozidar wrote:

loveybutt wrote:

Tanker1 wrote:

I think Hookshot should be removed permanatly.  Or nerfed.  Very powerful ability, especially in zones with guards.  Hookshot = fame.

L2level and you wont have that problem...

What an absolutely inspired response.

So you're saying if a raid is hitting a contested mob, a couple of rangers can't use hook-shot to pull off the same raid-wipe as a bruiser can?  you're just not thinking it through

I've been multi-hooked to a guard before.. i dont go near them since i learned that lesson... but it turns out you don't HAVE to go near them to get hooked to them.

Leveling isn't the answer to hookshot, removing arts (beyond normal knockbacks) that move a player is the answer.

well i shoulda specified but i was responding ot the guard thing, in which case i cant think of a place where lvlin up a bit wouldnt solve the guard problem..

and yes its much fun trying to wipe raids with hookshot..almost as much fun as it used to be as a troub when you could charm the raid tank and evac..good times..mmm memories..

and im not really sure how drag works, but hook shot doesnt always work, in fact id say half the time it doesnt seem to work..

[Bozidar]

loveybutt wrote:

i cant think of a place where lvlin up a bit wouldnt solve the guard problem..

you don't start avoiding guard problems until you're almost lvl 40.

Like it or not, most of the great pvp action happens in lower levels.. below 40.. when folks tell other folks to level up, i tell em to re-roll   join the action.. quit camping clouds and hiding in instances

[loveybutt]

Bozidar wrote:

loveybutt wrote:

i cant think of a place where lvlin up a bit wouldnt solve the guard problem..

you don't start avoiding guard problems until you're almost lvl 40.

Like it or not, most of the great pvp action happens in lower levels.. below 40.. when folks tell other folks to level up, i tell em to re-roll   join the action.. quit camping clouds and hiding in instances

blah ive tried the twinking thing, locked at 25 with a monk with my fiance (also a 25 monk)... pvp's fun, but i enjoyed it better in  t7, and thats coming mostly from my troubs pvp experience.. best pvp in the game is t7 group vs. group, and the occasional raid vs raid (when lag wasnt horrible)...

[Cocytus]

KaelVolorus wrote:

Should Monks get Drag?

[Removed for Content] no.

[Norrsken]

Bozidar wrote:

loveybutt wrote:

i cant think of a place where lvlin up a bit wouldnt solve the guard problem..

you don't start avoiding guard problems until you're almost lvl 40.

Like it or not, most of the great pvp action happens in lower levels.. below 40.. when folks tell other folks to level up, i tell em to re-roll   join the action.. quit camping clouds and hiding in instances

Actually Im having a blast pvping in all tiers. t6/7 used to be completely screwed if you didnt have a cpl of x4s in your pocket, but atm, t6 feels exactly like t3 when it was all the rage. t3 pvp has slowed down to a trickle. t2? Please, 5 skills? but I guess a lot of people like it there. t4 is hoppin tho, and I dont have a t5 char, but from what I can see on my assassin, there is some movement there too. 6 is a grand bunch of fun for grouping and soloing, and I'd wager 7 is about the same since I see a crapton of 70ies roaming about in small groups. (I really need to get a toon there some day. )

[KaelVolorus]

Let's keep it on topic guys.  Some of you have offered some very interesting propositions.  I can see that the majority of the population here is in agreement that Drag is extremely powerful in a PVP scenario, and either want to reward Monks with an adversary, or subtract it from Bruisers' arsenal.  More opinions!  I want to know what you all think on this subject.

[Bozidar]

KaelVolorus wrote:

and either want to reward Monks with an adversary

I don't think most folks have said that   Most have said no, monks have enough skills of their own, they don't need this added.

Others have said that moving of players in the ways that Drag and Hookshot do (when you have control over their direction and distance) is a borked sYstem for pvp that needs to be removed.

[EQGu]

there should be an immunity to drag so 15 bruisers cant chain drag you anywhere. Also there should be something done about people that like to sonic fist drag you into a mob then FD.

[Agent2k]

Kasai wrote:

First of all, your a complete [I cannot control my vocabulary] if you get dragged off an edge to your death. 

sit in mid air, bruiser dies, yo uget fame, you can then hop to your death

    Gotta die either way, [Removed for Content].  Its not about a pvp death, DO believe me, I know from experience that if a bruiser wants to get annoying with this, he can very easily do it.  And having to avoid edges everywhere while pvping in kos can end up getting alot trickier then you might think.  And you know as well as any that alot of ground can be covered in six seconds with the help of sonic fists.  Some of the people from my server might know who im talking about, sob would do this all day just to be annoying.  He wasn't out to pvp, he was out to drag people off edges, so most of the time combat never even started.  He would pop up and then you were getting dragged, close mind kept you from being able to do anything about it.  The pvp death was not my point at all, its the hassle that causes my conflict with it.

[loveybutt]

Agent2k wrote:

Kasai wrote:

First of all, your a complete [I cannot control my vocabulary] if you get dragged off an edge to your death. 

sit in mid air, bruiser dies, yo uget fame, you can then hop to your death

    Gotta die either way, [Removed for Content].  Its not about a pvp death, DO believe me, I know from experience that if a bruiser wants to get annoying with this, he can very easily do it.  And having to avoid edges everywhere while pvping in kos can end up getting alot trickier then you might think.  And you know as well as any that alot of ground can be covered in six seconds with the help of sonic fists.  Some of the people from my server might know who im talking about, sob would do this all day just to be annoying.  He wasn't out to pvp, he was out to drag people off edges, so most of the time combat never even started.  He would pop up and then you were getting dragged, close mind kept you from being able to do anything about it.  The pvp death was not my point at all, its the hassle that causes my conflict with it.

so do what all the cool kids do: kill the bruiser

[Agent2k]

   lol have you never pvp ed in kos?  There is a revive point every 5 steps, is it not clear to you that the bruiser that im talking about comes back again and again?  A Kamikaze that comes back to life,  it doesn't get much worse than that.  Imagine the japanese got to revive a couple miles away from Pearl Harbor and only had to wait 30 seconds to get their planes back.

[Tanker1]

Nerf reviving!