Out of group healing still not fixed

[Bozidar]

today in CL my friend and I engage two yellows, one of which was titled, other wasn't.

along comes a toon that is 1 level beyond our range, 20, and begins to heal our opponents.

Long story short, my friend dies and takes a fame hit because we couldn't bring them down.

Now.. that guy is OUTSIDE our level range.. why is he still able to influence fights with us?

SoE.. fix it right, please.. it's been a good start with what you did... follow through

[Captain Apple Darkberry]

I believe that in such a situation, the level range checked is the level range of the person you are trying to heal...   ...not who they are fighting. 

Which makes sense...   ...a level 70 can't heal a level 20 friend in the Commonlands, but a level 24 could heal that same level 20, regardless of whether that 20 was fighting a 17 or a 27.

[Bozidar]

Captain Apple Darkberry wrote:

I believe that in such a situation, the level range checked is the level range of the person you are trying to heal...   ...not who they are fighting. 

Which makes sense...   ...a level 70 can't heal a level 20 friend in the Commonlands, but a level 24 could heal that same level 20, regardless of whether that 20 was fighting a 17 or a 27.

i know what the rule IS.  I'm saying that someone outside the range of the enemy enaged should not be able to affect the fight at all.

[Geynos]

It is annoying sometimes. They aren't that high if they are able to do this though. Call over some friends

[shalom]

Bozidar wrote:

today in CL my friend and I engage two yellows, one of which was titled, other wasn't.

along comes a toon that is 1 level beyond our range, 20, and begins to heal our opponents.

Long story short, my friend dies and takes a fame hit because we couldn't bring them down.

Now.. that guy is OUTSIDE our level range.. why is he still able to influence fights with us?

SoE.. fix it right, please.. it's been a good start with what you did... follow through

If 20 was below your lvl range in CL that puts you at 25.  Yellow to a 25 is 26 at the lowest.

20 cant heal a 26 (per the rules).

Now if they were green and not yellow...that would make them 21, the 20 could heal them, but you couldnt attack the 20.

The specifics of your situation aside, I think if someone helps someone you're fighting, you should be able to fight them also.  Checking for lvl range against the not-same-faction player would accomplish this I think.  I imagine it gets sticky with groups of various levels and such....checking against the player you're about to heal is much simpler. 

[Bozidar]

shalom wrote:

If 20 was below your lvl range in CL that puts you at 25.  Yellow to a 25 is 26 at the lowest.

20 cant heal a 26 (per the rules).

Now if they were green and not yellow...that would make them 21, the 20 could heal them, but you couldnt attack the 20.

The specifics of your situation aside, I think if someone helps someone you're fighting, you should be able to fight them also.  Checking for lvl range against the not-same-faction player would accomplish this I think.  I imagine it gets sticky with groups of various levels and such....checking against the player you're about to heal is much simpler. 

we were 15, oog healer was 20.

they were yellow (17's i think)

I know checking against the heal target is easier.. but it's also WRONG.

Also, you should be able to heal UP above your range, just as you can attack above your range.  Silly that i can't heal a guy who's on my side because he's too HIGH a level.  I won't be affecting the play of anyone below my range.. so why can't i heal up?

[Norrsken]

shalom wrote:

Bozidar wrote:

today in CL my friend and I engage two yellows, one of which was titled, other wasn't.

along comes a toon that is 1 level beyond our range, 20, and begins to heal our opponents.

Long story short, my friend dies and takes a fame hit because we couldn't bring them down.

Now.. that guy is OUTSIDE our level range.. why is he still able to influence fights with us?

SoE.. fix it right, please.. it's been a good start with what you did... follow through

If 20 was below your lvl range in CL that puts you at 25.  Yellow to a 25 is 26 at the lowest.

20 cant heal a 26 (per the rules).

Now if they were green and not yellow...that would make them 21, the 20 could heal them, but you couldnt attack the 20.

The specifics of your situation aside, I think if someone helps someone you're fighting, you should be able to fight them also.  Checking for lvl range against the not-same-faction player would accomplish this I think.  I imagine it gets sticky with groups of various levels and such....checking against the player you're about to heal is much simpler. 

LEvel ranges only ever applied downwards.

You can go heal a lvl 70 fighting a lvl 70 if you are a lvl 10 if you feel like it. You become a valid target in doing so however.

[Cantilena]

At least in a situation like that, it IS possible to kill the outside healer.  That was NOT the case when lvl 70 babysitters could heal noobs.  If I were you, I would get a couple more people and hunt down that healer, hehe.

[slashalot]

Bozidar wrote

we were 15, oog healer was 20.they were yellow (17's i think)I know checking against the heal target is easier.. but it's also WRONG.

but in your thinking the the system would have to check everyone on the L17's hate list to see what max level can heal and that would have resulted in a higher level toon being able to heal him as the highest hate listee ( minus and group range) would be a level 21 therefor allowing a L25 healer.

[Cantilena]

Bozidar wrote:

shalom wrote:

Also, you should be able to heal UP above your range, just as you can attack above your range.  Silly that i can't heal a guy who's on my side because he's too HIGH a level.  I won't be affecting the play of anyone below my range.. so why can't i heal up?

Maybe they were hoping to fix the problem of lvl 9 healers with titles?

[Dalema]

like it was said, its because the healer was in the lvl range of the person he was healing, honestly, i'd say just deal with it.  Its not a huge issue and people keep calling for pvp nerfs soon enough we're gonna be a blue server where eveyone has to agree to a fight before they can engage so the other person doesnt "cry unfair fight!"  Seriously, you lost fame, get over it, i'm sure theres enough players trying to level up that you can gank to retaliate.

[Bozidar]

Dalema wrote:

like it was said, its because the healer was in the lvl range of the person he was healing, honestly, i'd say just deal with it.  Its not a huge issue and people keep calling for pvp nerfs soon enough we're gonna be a blue server where eveyone has to agree to a fight before they can engage so the other person doesnt "cry unfair fight!"  Seriously, you lost fame, get over it, i'm sure theres enough players trying to level up that you can gank to retaliate.

broke is broke.  not asking for a nerf, asking for a fix.

someone out of my level range, and the level range of everyone enaged with my target (in my group or not) can still affect the outcome of that battle. -- it's wrong and against the idea of level limits.

[Bozidar]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

LEvel ranges only ever applied downwards.

You can go heal a lvl 70 fighting a lvl 70 if you are a lvl 10 if you feel like it. You become a valid target in doing so however.

not anymore.. and i saw you the other day in game.. and i'll see you again

[Bozidar]

slashalot wrote:

Bozidar wrote

we were 15, oog healer was 20.they were yellow (17's i think)I know checking against the heal target is easier.. but it's also WRONG.

but in your thinking the the system would have to check everyone on the L17's hate list to see what max level can heal and that would have resulted in a higher level toon being able to heal him as the highest hate listee ( minus and group range) would be a level 21 therefor allowing a L25 healer.

what is this jibba jabba?

The highest guy on my enemies hate list was 15.. me, and my friend.. so the higher toon shouldn't have been able to affect the outcome of tthe fight, because he was 20... why do people keep misconstruing what i'm saying?

[Norrsken]

Bozidar wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

LEvel ranges only ever applied downwards.

You can go heal a lvl 70 fighting a lvl 70 if you are a lvl 10 if you feel like it. You become a valid target in doing so however.

not anymore.. and i saw you the other day in game.. and i'll see you again

Cool. I bet I died, since thats what I've been doing lately. Hehe. Or were you the dude that I had some tells with?

[Taldier]

I think the intended point is that checking whether you can heal someone based on who they are attacking is very problematic.  For example if a lvl 15 is fighting a lvl 17 and the 17 hits a higher lvl toon, the 17 would be able to be healed by anyone under that lvl.  I can just imagine someone running around with some guildie's alt of the opposing faction and a high lvl healer.

 Its much easier to just test based on the targets lvl, instead of the lvl of everyone on the targets hate list.  Atleast that way people can only be oog healed by someone within the zones lvl range of them.

[Bozidar]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Cool. I bet I died, since thats what I've been doing lately. Hehe. Or were you the dude that I had some tells with?

nah... i was just too low to attack you yet

[Bozidar]

Taldier wrote:

 Its much easier to just test based on the targets lvl

its easier not to check at all.. but that was broken, werent it?

[Geynos]

The point is that with the current system, the OOG healer will never be more than 2x the zone's level range higher, which isnt *that* bad.

A fix would be nice, but it should not be a high priority.

[Taldier]

Bozidar wrote:

its easier not to check at all.. but that was broken, werent it?

Did you actually read anything other than one sentance of my post?  Let me outline what will happen if you check based on the heal targets hate list.

1. low lvl twink logs in with his lvl 70 healer buddy and lvl 70 of opposite alignment, all of whom are on vent/ts to communicate

2. low lvl twink engages target

3. low lvl twink hits his lvl 70 buddy, thus allowing the healer to start healing him

4. low lvl twink becomes invincible

personally I perfer someone within the zones lvl range being able to oog heal as opposed to such an easily exploited system.  Atleast now you have a chance in hell of out dpsing the healing.

[Qanil]

Bozidar wrote:

Captain Apple Darkberry wrote:

I believe that in such a situation, the level range checked is the level range of the person you are trying to heal...   ...not who they are fighting. 

Which makes sense...   ...a level 70 can't heal a level 20 friend in the Commonlands, but a level 24 could heal that same level 20, regardless of whether that 20 was fighting a 17 or a 27.

i know what the rule IS.  I'm saying that someone outside the range of the enemy enaged should not be able to affect the fight at all.

How is this for "role reversal"....   LEVEL UP.   You are "choosing" to be in a lower tier, where the ruleset is clearly explained.

quit crying and level up if you don't like it.

touche

[slashalot]

Taldier wrote:

Bozidar wrote:

its easier not to check at all.. but that was broken, werent it?

Did you actually read anything other than one sentance of my post?  Let me outline what will happen if you check based on the heal targets hate list.

1. low lvl twink logs in with his lvl 70 healer buddy and lvl 70 of opposite alignment, all of whom are on vent/ts to communicate

2. low lvl twink engages target

3. low lvl twink hits his lvl 70 buddy, thus allowing the healer to start healing him

4. low lvl twink becomes invincible

personally I perfer someone within the zones lvl range being able to oog heal as opposed to such an easily exploited system.  Atleast now you have a chance in hell of out dpsing the healing.

yeah what he said. i just used Levels that actually may already be in zone.

since you can attack up any level is possible

[Killque]

Sorry Bozidar,

I have to go against you on this one. I feel that the change is working as intended. In a 4 lvl range zone, a 24 can heal a 20. So given the fact that you know that, be careful on what/where you attack. If your 15 and can take out a 20, thats all fine and dandy, just remember, should someone stroll by thats in his level range, he can heal.

Changing the code to check against the "healed" persons target is making something simple, overly complex not to mentoin just silly im.

I can deal with the system we have now. It just makes more sense. However, in the teens etc it was much more difficult to deal with the 40+ lvl difference as their heals were way better.

Out dps'ing someone within the level range of the person being healed is not un-achiveable. Solo, no of course not, especially when your already stretching the odds on the fight with you being 15 and them being 19, but we gotta be a bit realistic here.

[Bozidar]

Taldier wrote:

Bozidar wrote:

its easier not to check at all.. but that was broken, werent it?

Did you actually read anything other than one sentance of my post?  Let me outline what will happen if you check based on the heal targets hate list.

1. low lvl twink logs in with his lvl 70 healer buddy and lvl 70 of opposite alignment, all of whom are on vent/ts to communicate

2. low lvl twink engages target

3. low lvl twink hits his lvl 70 buddy, thus allowing the healer to start healing him

4. low lvl twink becomes invincible

personally I perfer someone within the zones lvl range being able to oog heal as opposed to such an easily exploited system.  Atleast now you have a chance in hell of out dpsing the healing.

you might want to fill me in on the easy part of trailing two 70's around to exploit.  i understood what you said, and i understand the exploit.. but i honestly thought it was just too dumb to think someone would try it

what's to stop you now from getting a lvl 70 healer and a lvl 20 healer to run around behind your 16 twink?  The 20 can heal you, and your won't get ganked..

[shalom]

Bozidar wrote:

shalom wrote:

If 20 was below your lvl range in CL that puts you at 25.  Yellow to a 25 is 26 at the lowest.

20 cant heal a 26 (per the rules).

Now if they were green and not yellow...that would make them 21, the 20 could heal them, but you couldnt attack the 20.

The specifics of your situation aside, I think if someone helps someone you're fighting, you should be able to fight them also.  Checking for lvl range against the not-same-faction player would accomplish this I think.  I imagine it gets sticky with groups of various levels and such....checking against the player you're about to heal is much simpler. 

we were 15, oog healer was 20.

they were yellow (17's i think)

I know checking against the heal target is easier.. but it's also WRONG.

Also, you should be able to heal UP above your range, just as you can attack above your range.  Silly that i can't heal a guy who's on my side because he's too HIGH a level.  I won't be affecting the play of anyone below my range.. so why can't i heal up?

Apologies, I read 'outside our range' as below. 

Checking against the heal target creates a bad situation in your above case...but the inverse would be true also if the check was against the non-factioned players...If you guys were fighting 2 19's and a 14 wanted to heal YOU, he couldnt. That would be equally frustrating I'd think.

My guess is that it's one of those lesser-of-two evils (no offense Freeport) kinda things....

[Dalema]

Bozidar wrote:

Dalema wrote:

like it was said, its because the healer was in the lvl range of the person he was healing, honestly, i'd say just deal with it.  Its not a huge issue and people keep calling for pvp nerfs soon enough we're gonna be a blue server where eveyone has to agree to a fight before they can engage so the other person doesnt "cry unfair fight!"  Seriously, you lost fame, get over it, i'm sure theres enough players trying to level up that you can gank to retaliate.

broke is broke.  not asking for a nerf, asking for a fix.

someone out of my level range, and the level range of everyone enaged with my target (in my group or not) can still affect the outcome of that battle. -- it's wrong and against the idea of level limits.

lvl limits is wrong and against the idea of pvp and i don't think its broken the healer, healed someone that was in the healers lvl range, not sure how thats broken