SK duo Dirge or Troub?

lololololol · 04-12-2007, 09:22 PM

So I got a bud of mine starting a SK and im working on moving my little halfling dirge over to freeport and started thinking a troub might make for a better partner. What do you all think should I go troub or stay dirge? We will probably be dou'n most of the time.

Antryg Mistrose · 04-13-2007, 12:42 AM

Dirge. Dirges debuff and deal disease damage, as do SK. At higher levels Dirge's get Oration of Sacrifice (sacrificial heal) Dirges buff melee / tanking more. Parry buff, Stoneskin, CoB - all very useful when you don't have a priest and so are relying on the SKs (admittedly excellent) self healing. Although SKs get a lot of damage from spells (which troubs buff better), the Dirge is a better fit.

Spider · 04-13-2007, 08:19 PM

i dunno for a long time me and 2 friend ran together in a small 3-5 man guild

an sk , a troub, and a dirge

and in duo pairs the sk did equaly well when duoing with either one of us

while on the surface a dirge may seem the better choice there are a lot of other things that come into play

our str /sta buff is great for an sk

our spell proc works for them as well

while the dirge may have haste we have dps .... err scratch that reverse it

jesters and other things so yes a troub sk combo can be quite nice as well

RanmaBoyType · 04-16-2007, 12:29 AM

I cannot speak for the dirge, however, my normal non raiding group consists of the following:

70 SK (me) 70 Trouby (my raider, but in groups my "auto follow buffer&quot SMILEY , and a 70 fury played by my fiancee.

I run the trouby up with deaggro, aria of acclamation, power regen, haste, and health regen. I mainly use her to lay in the debuffs on groups, then turn on auto attack. However what really makes this trio shine, is the deaggro means the fury can go crazy on damage and not take aggro, and because at least (if not more) of my SK's attacks are actually spells, dissonant note procs all the time, on both taunts, nukes, aoes, etc...

Add in a jesters cap before you cast death march, and that mofo refreshes very nicely. It is a pretty sick trio to be honest, since the SK has great ability to keep herself alive, the fury can spend more time debuffing and nuking, then laying in heals only if the fights get tough. The trouby lays back with debuffs n damage when i can get in the swings.

Playing the trouby full time in that group would make it even better.

aelder~ · 04-16-2007, 12:45 PM

I could also imagine mez and charm being useful to a duo...

Vraneth · 04-17-2007, 09:16 AM

For a SK to duo with, the Dirge is by far better.

If you want to duo as a troub, I'd recommend duoing with a templar. Jester's for more DR's and faster recast on the hammer makes for an excellent duo, as long as you don't want to go int Castle Mistmoore, we've only managed 1 (Vanquisher Whaevah) named in there, the rest are just too hard or come with too many adds.

RanmaBoyType · 04-17-2007, 02:15 PM

For a SK to duo with, the Dirge is by far better.

Can you elaborate on why a dirge would be better than a trouby, for the SK, keeping in mind SK is half combat art, half spell damage.

we can compare some here

Dirge has hate buff vs trouby non fighter deaggro buff. Those seem to cancel each other out.

Dirge has parry buff vs trouby has defense buff. Is parry that much greater than defense, in this situation (non raid/small 2-3 man team)

dirge has stoneskin buff vs trouby has reflection buff. can a dirge post on this? Is stoneskin that much better? Reflect is nice in some situations, but i find other spells to be more beneficial with the 5 concs we get...

dirge has CoB vs trouby POTM. granted SK has very very many spell abilities, several being AoE i find much mroe damage being delivered through POTM, however not grouping with a dirge i cannot comment that this is entirely better than CoB for a SK. thoughts on that?

the only thing i would vote the drige having over the trouby is the heal, but we "may" be able to counter that knowing that a trouby can keep at least 2 mobs perma mezed if necessary.

are these comparisons accurate? Is there anything else a dirge offers that would be way better for a SK than a trouby? (if the tank were a berserker or guardian, i would agree dirge better, but SK is a little tough to easily come back with dirge..)

Antryg Mistrose · 04-17-2007, 11:33 PM

RanmaBoyType wrote:

For a SK to duo with, the Dirge is by far better.
Can you elaborate on why a dirge would be better than a trouby, for the SK, keeping in mind SK is half combat art, half spell damage. More like 3/4 spells
we can compare some here
Dirge has hate buff vs trouby non fighter deaggro buff. Those seem to cancel each other out. Neither are required in duoing with a bard (bard dps just isn't high enough to need it)
Dirge has parry buff vs trouby has defense buff. Is parry that much greater than defense, in this situation (non raid/small 2-3 man team) I think Parry>Defence, but neither are a big deal in this situation
dirge has stoneskin buff vs trouby has reflection buff. can a dirge post on this? Is stoneskin that much better? Reflect is nice in some situations, but i find other spells to be more beneficial with the 5 concs we get... To be honest I hardly ever use the troub reflect. Illusionist has a single target one that is good for 3 hits before dropping and doesn't take a conc slot. That, I've seen go many fights without needing to be renewed. Stoneskin on the other hand always procs multiple times per fight.
dirge has CoB vs trouby POTM. granted SK has very very many spell abilities, several being AoE i find much mroe damage being delivered through POTM, however not grouping with a dirge i cannot comment that this is entirely better than CoB for a SK. thoughts on that? A bit more situational, on a large encounter POTM will obviously be better than CoB, as CoB is melee, and melee is (generally) single target. The interrupts though from CoB can be a lifesaver on mobs with nasty specials
the only thing i would vote the drige having over the trouby is the heal, but we "may" be able to counter that knowing that a trouby can keep at least 2 mobs perma mezed if necessary. That heal is HUGE in a group with no priest. The dirge will never take aggro from the SK (assuming minimal competence on both parties), so the Dirge will have the life to spare for Oration. Mezz on the other hand is a right pain if you are a SK. Sometimes a necessary pain, but still. With no priest, SK's AoE Lifetap (TapVeins) is their biggest heal, and mezz of course diminishes that. I can see that having a ghetto mezzer would allow for tackling harder mobs, but also keep in mind most of SK attacks are DoTs, so by the time you realise you are out of your depth and need to mezz, the SK will have a hard time cancelling all their DoTs before they are dead.
are these comparisons accurate? Is there anything else a dirge offers that would be way better for a SK than a trouby? (if the tank were a berserker or guardian, i would agree dirge better, but SK is a little tough to easily come back with dirge..)

I've posted comments in line. But I think you are missing the key item I posted earlier - both SKs and Dirges debuff and deal disease damage. That makes for a great duo. Yes I know SKs are mainly casters and Troubs buff casters better, but the specific synergy of SK/Dirge outweighs that. Especially when you don't have a priest. If you did have a priest (say a fury - also a caster), then Troubador starts to be more competitive. Training is also a darn site easier if there is a class in the duo with rezz .... p.s. I have a level 70 SK and Troubador, but the Troubador was a Dirge while dual boxing them to 70, so I am familar with these specific pairings.

Egeis · 04-20-2007, 06:08 AM

SK with a Drige + Troub SMILEY

done it that way as a dirge.

Tri · 04-20-2007, 12:14 PM

You just can't compare the effectivness of Stoneskin and Spellskin, I get to count the number of fights before RoR procs ! I agree with Antryg on this one, my friend has a SK alt ( 69 ) whom i duo with time to time and mezzing is usually ineffective ( unless mezzing that mob you shouldn't have aggroed in the first place ) AND YOU ONLY GET MEZ AT LVL 50 CoB is a life saver with it's interupts, and it also adds a lot of haste, 48% for the ad3 spell. Dirge debuffs are more effective in the end, as the only real offensive debuff as a troub is the t6 skill debuff ( dirges also get the str/agi debuff ) The parry buff adds 2x more parry than defense. And of course the disease resist debuff snare !!!! This really ups the damage output. So as far as min/maxing goes a dirge will fit in better. Then again if you want to be a half-dirge with mez, go for troub SMILEY

Mildavyn · 04-20-2007, 01:07 PM

PoS is so much better than RoR its not even funny. The only offensive debuff troubs get that dirges dont is Demoralising Processional... and its not that huge. Parry or defense is a bit meh, but the dirges buff for more than twice what the troub does. The dirges CAN heal... they shouldnt need to with a SK, but its an option. The troub's only 'heal' option is a 117pts per tick in-combat regen. Did i mention CoB? BUT...

Does the dirge disease debuff increase the damage of the SK by 145ish on every spell? (Aria does! [avg proc dmg of 300 at45%]) Also Aria applies to ALL spell attacks, not just to all spell attacks on the one mob thats been debuffed. Yes Dirges can heal (sorta) but so can SKs, and no dirge is ever going to out-heal a Shadowknight. CoB is nice, but SKs dont dual-wield, so at best its going to be going off once every 1.6 seconds (fastest 1-h ive seen) which means you'll get 10 procs plus maybe 5-6 for CAs. PotM, combined with Death March, can put out a HUGE ammount of damage, especially if you're fighting many mobs at once.

For Offense, nothing helps out a Shadowknight more than a troubador. And lets face it, a Shadowknight is all about offensive tanking.

Spider · 04-20-2007, 09:51 PM

i must say i think whoever said troub templar is off the mark a wee bit

toub inquis is the ouch duo

ive done thins amny times and its a realysweet set up no matter which one is tanking and u can alternate depending on situation plus inquis has a mental debuff and dot to go with it as well

Vraneth · 04-23-2007, 09:31 PM

Spider wrote:

i must say i think whoever said troub templar is off the mark a wee bit
toub inquis is the ouch duo
ive done thins amny times and its a realysweet set up no matter which one is tanking and u can alternate depending on situation plus inquis has a mental debuff and dot to go with it as well

Does the Inquisitor have a temporary pet every 1,5 - 3 minutes??

Didn't think so, which is what it is all about.

Sure a defiler/mystic would work aswell for the pet, but in all honesty they can't compete with a templar specced for DPS, especially against undead which a lot of the new high-end mobs are.

04-12-2007, 09:22 PM	#1
lololololol General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 64	So I got a bud of mine starting a SK and im working on moving my little halfling dirge over to freeport and started thinking a troub might make for a better partner. What do you all think should I go troub or stay dirge? We will probably be dou'n most of the time. __________________

04-13-2007, 12:42 AM	#2
Antryg Mistrose Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 893	Dirge. Dirges debuff and deal disease damage, as do SK. At higher levels Dirge's get Oration of Sacrifice (sacrificial heal) Dirges buff melee / tanking more. Parry buff, Stoneskin, CoB - all very useful when you don't have a priest and so are relying on the SKs (admittedly excellent) self healing. Although SKs get a lot of damage from spells (which troubs buff better), the Dirge is a better fit. __________________ Illusionist//Paladin/Dirge/Templar Jeweler/Sage/Alchemist/Prov

04-16-2007, 12:29 AM	#4
RanmaBoyType Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 440	I cannot speak for the dirge, however, my normal non raiding group consists of the following: 70 SK (me) 70 Trouby (my raider, but in groups my "auto follow buffer&quot, and a 70 fury played by my fiancee. I run the trouby up with deaggro, aria of acclamation, power regen, haste, and health regen. I mainly use her to lay in the debuffs on groups, then turn on auto attack. However what really makes this trio shine, is the deaggro means the fury can go crazy on damage and not take aggro, and because at least (if not more) of my SK's attacks are actually spells, dissonant note procs all the time, on both taunts, nukes, aoes, etc... Add in a jesters cap before you cast death march, and that mofo refreshes very nicely. It is a pretty sick trio to be honest, since the SK has great ability to keep herself alive, the fury can spend more time debuffing and nuking, then laying in heals only if the fights get tough. The trouby lays back with debuffs n damage when i can get in the swings. Playing the trouby full time in that group would make it even better. __________________ Chan Clan Stats - eq2 Players

04-16-2007, 12:45 PM	#5
aelder~ Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 74	I could also imagine mez and charm being useful to a duo... __________________ Aelder Silmaril Troubador of Absolution on Guk

04-17-2007, 02:15 PM	#7
RanmaBoyType Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 440	For a SK to duo with, the Dirge is by far better. Can you elaborate on why a dirge would be better than a trouby, for the SK, keeping in mind SK is half combat art, half spell damage. we can compare some here Dirge has hate buff vs trouby non fighter deaggro buff. Those seem to cancel each other out. Dirge has parry buff vs trouby has defense buff. Is parry that much greater than defense, in this situation (non raid/small 2-3 man team) dirge has stoneskin buff vs trouby has reflection buff. can a dirge post on this? Is stoneskin that much better? Reflect is nice in some situations, but i find other spells to be more beneficial with the 5 concs we get... dirge has CoB vs trouby POTM. granted SK has very very many spell abilities, several being AoE i find much mroe damage being delivered through POTM, however not grouping with a dirge i cannot comment that this is entirely better than CoB for a SK. thoughts on that? the only thing i would vote the drige having over the trouby is the heal, but we "may" be able to counter that knowing that a trouby can keep at least 2 mobs perma mezed if necessary. are these comparisons accurate? Is there anything else a dirge offers that would be way better for a SK than a trouby? (if the tank were a berserker or guardian, i would agree dirge better, but SK is a little tough to easily come back with dirge..) __________________ Chan Clan Stats - eq2 Players

04-13-2007, 08:19 PM	#3
Spider Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,112	i dunno for a long time me and 2 friend ran together in a small 3-5 man guild an sk , a troub, and a dirge and in duo pairs the sk did equaly well when duoing with either one of us while on the surface a dirge may seem the better choice there are a lot of other things that come into play our str /sta buff is great for an sk our spell proc works for them as well while the dirge may have haste we have dps .... err scratch that reverse it jesters and other things so yes a troub sk combo can be quite nice as well

04-17-2007, 09:16 AM	#6
Vraneth Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 55	For a SK to duo with, the Dirge is by far better. If you want to duo as a troub, I'd recommend duoing with a templar. Jester's for more DR's and faster recast on the hammer makes for an excellent duo, as long as you don't want to go int Castle Mistmoore, we've only managed 1 (Vanquisher Whaevah) named in there, the rest are just too hard or come with too many adds.

04-17-2007, 11:33 PM	#8
Antryg Mistrose Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 893	RanmaBoyType wrote: For a SK to duo with, the Dirge is by far better. Can you elaborate on why a dirge would be better than a trouby, for the SK, keeping in mind SK is half combat art, half spell damage. More like 3/4 spells we can compare some here Dirge has hate buff vs trouby non fighter deaggro buff. Those seem to cancel each other out. Neither are required in duoing with a bard (bard dps just isn't high enough to need it) Dirge has parry buff vs trouby has defense buff. Is parry that much greater than defense, in this situation (non raid/small 2-3 man team) I think Parry>Defence, but neither are a big deal in this situation dirge has stoneskin buff vs trouby has reflection buff. can a dirge post on this? Is stoneskin that much better? Reflect is nice in some situations, but i find other spells to be more beneficial with the 5 concs we get... To be honest I hardly ever use the troub reflect. Illusionist has a single target one that is good for 3 hits before dropping and doesn't take a conc slot. That, I've seen go many fights without needing to be renewed. Stoneskin on the other hand always procs multiple times per fight. dirge has CoB vs trouby POTM. granted SK has very very many spell abilities, several being AoE i find much mroe damage being delivered through POTM, however not grouping with a dirge i cannot comment that this is entirely better than CoB for a SK. thoughts on that? A bit more situational, on a large encounter POTM will obviously be better than CoB, as CoB is melee, and melee is (generally) single target. The interrupts though from CoB can be a lifesaver on mobs with nasty specials the only thing i would vote the drige having over the trouby is the heal, but we "may" be able to counter that knowing that a trouby can keep at least 2 mobs perma mezed if necessary. That heal is HUGE in a group with no priest. The dirge will never take aggro from the SK (assuming minimal competence on both parties), so the Dirge will have the life to spare for Oration. Mezz on the other hand is a right pain if you are a SK. Sometimes a necessary pain, but still. With no priest, SK's AoE Lifetap (TapVeins) is their biggest heal, and mezz of course diminishes that. I can see that having a ghetto mezzer would allow for tackling harder mobs, but also keep in mind most of SK attacks are DoTs, so by the time you realise you are out of your depth and need to mezz, the SK will have a hard time cancelling all their DoTs before they are dead. are these comparisons accurate? Is there anything else a dirge offers that would be way better for a SK than a trouby? (if the tank were a berserker or guardian, i would agree dirge better, but SK is a little tough to easily come back with dirge..) I've posted comments in line. But I think you are missing the key item I posted earlier - both SKs and Dirges debuff and deal disease damage. That makes for a great duo. Yes I know SKs are mainly casters and Troubs buff casters better, but the specific synergy of SK/Dirge outweighs that. Especially when you don't have a priest. If you did have a priest (say a fury - also a caster), then Troubador starts to be more competitive. Training is also a darn site easier if there is a class in the duo with rezz .... p.s. I have a level 70 SK and Troubador, but the Troubador was a Dirge while dual boxing them to 70, so I am familar with these specific pairings. __________________ Illusionist//Paladin/Dirge/Templar Jeweler/Sage/Alchemist/Prov

04-20-2007, 06:08 AM	#9
Egeis Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Riverside, CA Posts: 63	SK with a Drige + Troub done it that way as a dirge.

04-20-2007, 12:14 PM	#10
Tri General Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 156	You just can't compare the effectivness of Stoneskin and Spellskin, I get to count the number of fights before RoR procs ! I agree with Antryg on this one, my friend has a SK alt ( 69 ) whom i duo with time to time and mezzing is usually ineffective ( unless mezzing that mob you shouldn't have aggroed in the first place ) AND YOU ONLY GET MEZ AT LVL 50 CoB is a life saver with it's interupts, and it also adds a lot of haste, 48% for the ad3 spell. Dirge debuffs are more effective in the end, as the only real offensive debuff as a troub is the t6 skill debuff ( dirges also get the str/agi debuff ) The parry buff adds 2x more parry than defense. And of course the disease resist debuff snare !!!! This really ups the damage output. So as far as min/maxing goes a dirge will fit in better. Then again if you want to be a half-dirge with mez, go for troub

04-20-2007, 01:07 PM	#11
Mildavyn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,301	PoS is so much better than RoR its not even funny. The only offensive debuff troubs get that dirges dont is Demoralising Processional... and its not that huge. Parry or defense is a bit meh, but the dirges buff for more than twice what the troub does. The dirges CAN heal... they shouldnt need to with a SK, but its an option. The troub's only 'heal' option is a 117pts per tick in-combat regen. Did i mention CoB? BUT... Does the dirge disease debuff increase the damage of the SK by 145ish on every spell? (Aria does! [avg proc dmg of 300 at45%]) Also Aria applies to ALL spell attacks, not just to all spell attacks on the one mob thats been debuffed. Yes Dirges can heal (sorta) but so can SKs, and no dirge is ever going to out-heal a Shadowknight. CoB is nice, but SKs dont dual-wield, so at best its going to be going off once every 1.6 seconds (fastest 1-h ive seen) which means you'll get 10 procs plus maybe 5-6 for CAs. PotM, combined with Death March, can put out a HUGE ammount of damage, especially if you're fighting many mobs at once. For Offense, nothing helps out a Shadowknight more than a troubador. And lets face it, a Shadowknight is all about offensive tanking. __________________ Paikis, Troubador Ashk, Guardian Sslyth, Necromancer Mirbolt, Shadowknight Mildayvin, Assasin Verminius, Defiler

04-20-2007, 09:51 PM	#12
Spider Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,112	i must say i think whoever said troub templar is off the mark a wee bit toub inquis is the ouch duo ive done thins amny times and its a realysweet set up no matter which one is tanking and u can alternate depending on situation plus inquis has a mental debuff and dot to go with it as well

04-23-2007, 09:31 PM	#13
Vraneth Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 55	Spider wrote: i must say i think whoever said troub templar is off the mark a wee bit toub inquis is the ouch duo ive done thins amny times and its a realysweet set up no matter which one is tanking and u can alternate depending on situation plus inquis has a mental debuff and dot to go with it as well Does the Inquisitor have a temporary pet every 1,5 - 3 minutes?? Didn't think so, which is what it is all about. Sure a defiler/mystic would work aswell for the pet, but in all honesty they can't compete with a templar specced for DPS, especially against undead which a lot of the new high-end mobs are.