Which stat is more important as a troub, str or int?

[lrdpath]

So I took my troub out of mothballs and I know STR is important for our autoattack damage and CA's, and INT is important for 25% of our power pool and our spells. How much of our attacks are spells vs combat arts...  it seems I have a lot more spells, but there's also my auto attack to take into account.  My wizard has it so easy, focus on INT INT INT... my fury has it easy because she needs to focus on WIS and INT primarily, and there are a lot of wis/int items and I worry more about my spells than anything melee so my str isn't that high, and my stamina is pretty good because it's on a lot of the wis and int items.  For my troub I need to worry about agi, str, wis and int.... and finding items with combinations of those stats isn't easy.  My troub isn't high level, so I can't tell what my stats will be wearing more high end gear geared towards specific classes.  What should I be focusing on now?  INT or STR? J

[Pogopuschel]

I'd prefer a +20 INT item over a +20 STR item any day. On raids, I do about hmm 15% of my dps from autoattack mayby 20% from STR-based CAs. STR is usually 650, INT 550. In order of importance of the attributes for a Troub, I'd probably say: INT > STR > STA > AGI > WIS You might want to focus more on AGI (relatively speaking) if you either solo, tank or PvP.

[Krilinye]

I focus mostly on agi and int atm, mainly cus im aiming to be a real battlemage

 In caster grp i got like 890 INT, with selfbuff ofc, and i average bout 1k dps zonewide in pretty much all EoF raid zones, in Freethinkers i tend to go up to 1.2k zonewide tho (1.4k zonewide trash)

 Im quite happy with my dps vs. my play style atm.

But at lower levels you should really just focus on STR, STA and AGI - INT is more useful in the higher levels.

Also, only 2 of our abilities are based on STR (stealth backstab and the other backstab) while rest are INT based.

[aelder~]

I would concur with Uyaem.  Under most circumstances, I tend to get more damage from incremental INT than STR.  And STA > AGI for survivability, and when do you really run out of power?  WIS FTL - sure it incrementally lifts resists, but use your Turnstrike, Bladedance, Turnstrike again, and then  joust one rotation you can't cover; besides, the Fury has to heal you ocassionally if you are going to have any chance of out parsing him ; )

Apologies in advance for potential thread highjacking, but seems related to me.  How do folks feel about items when they have the chance to choose between casting proc and melee proc?  In particular I am thinking of the Freethinker's League jewelery set -- one is INT/WIS with casting based proc and the other set available is STR/AGI with a melee proc.  I went against my better judgement by going with the Signet of the League Guardians over the Signet of the League Arcanists (and then you need to follow up with the other 2 of the same or you get no bonus for the set).  My logic (likely flawed and certainly unparsed) was that I will really only use the vampire set for raids, when I am typically running with heavy proc buffs and toning down my casting to get lots of swings with GDoH and LDoN.  By contrast I, and most bards, use the caster ear (Mystical Orb of the Invoker) from Bonemire vs the melee ear (now you can of course use both, though I tend to go with Ivy-Shrouded Orb of Tunare's instead).

Thoughts?

Aelder

[Antryg Mistrose]

Caster proc for troubs, melee proc for dirges is my opinion. Sadly I betrayed AFTER I got the first item, so the set is worthless.

[Mildavyn]

Just to correct Krilinye, alot of our attacks are based on STR.

STR based: Sandra's, Noble Blade, Dancing Blade, Clara's Midnight Tempo, Guviena's Overpowering Ovation, and all of the 2nd tier KoS AAs.

Total STR based: 5+AAs

INT based: Perfect Shrill, Alin's Incandescent Concord, Kian's Catastrophic Anthem, Steal Essence, Eli's Thunderous Drumming, Self (only) proc on Aria.

Total INT based: 5+Aria proc

So unless you spend alot of time fighting at range, you will actually get more bang for your buck out of increasing STR. Once you get to around 500 STR though, go back and increase INT.

[luinnil]

INT is definitely better than STR for DPS as far as I can tell (up to a point).  I do try to always be 500+ in both though. AGI's the only other useful stat unless you're soloing, generally.  Once you can survive an AE, further Stamina isn't that great, and working on Wis isn't likely to be worth the resists you get. Especially if you bulk up on procs.  Almost all procs work off INT.  (Case in point, I run with sin poison on me, which ticks for ~500-600 with good int) -Lome

[Krilinye]

Paikis@Venekor wrote:

Just to correct Krilinye, alot of our attacks are based on STR.

STR based: Sandra's, Noble Blade, Dancing Blade, Clara's Midnight Tempo, Guviena's Overpowering Ovation, and all of the 2nd tier KoS AAs.

Total STR based: 5+AAs

INT based: Perfect Shrill, Alin's Incandescent Concord, Kian's Catastrophic Anthem, Steal Essence, Eli's Thunderous Drumming, Self (only) proc on Aria.

Total INT based: 5+Aria proc

So unless you spend alot of time fighting at range, you will actually get more bang for your buck out of increasing STR. Once you get to around 500 STR though, go back and increase INT.

Yeah your right, just checked again - didnt use to be like that.

But if you look at the damage from our spells vs. the damage from our CAs the int is much more attractive.

 All my spells is M1 and im basing this info off of me selfbuffed with 709 INT

 Perfect Shrill 1194-1888 dmg

steal essence 611 - 943 dmg

Elis thunderous drumming 903 - 1437

Alins Incandescent Concord 653 - 1030 dmg

Kias Catastrophic Anthem 201 pr tick (total of 2010 dmg)

 Total of: 7308 dmg if all used (based off of highest hit in description)

CAs, all M1 and with 351 STR

Sandra's Bewildering Incursion 309 - 516

Noble Blade 329-549 x2 (if both hit ofc) total of 658 - 1098

Dancing Blade 496 - 827

Clara's Midnight Tempo 683 - 1138

Guviena's Overpowering Ovation 265 - 442 x2 (if both hits ofc.) total of 530 - 884

Total of: 4463 dmg if you use all of them (based off of highest hit in description)

 Difference: 2845 dmg

Ofc i also use CAs in combat, not only spells

And considering that your spells also has a big chance to proc Arias, thats easily another 1.5 or 2k dmg from just Aria.

With 709 INT aria does 304 - 507 btw

[Mildavyn]

Now add your auto attack in, and also modify those damage numbers based on recast times. STR is starting to look alot nicer now isnt it? Also, your numbers are based on 351 STR and 709 INT. I generally run with around 500 STR and 600 INT self buffed. On the trash mobs in Labs i generally put out 600-900 DPS. Most of that is from auto-attacks and CAs.

[Krilinye]

Well, i deal much more magic dmg, more than 3 times magic dmg than melee dmg (this does include our noble blade and Sandras tho as they deal mental dmg)

 This is a parse from a EH run, second and third floor.

 (probably with around 900 INT and 500 STR)

 And a parse from MMIS

(probably with around 900 INT and 500 STR)

Its very much possible that if you focus on str you will see that your melee skills seem to deal much more dmg than your magic skills. I wouldnt know tho, cus i havent tryed.

But im quite happy with INT focusing, i like the DPS that i put out while doing my job.

EDIT: Btw, back on track to what the OP asked for: I would probably, as a low lvl Troub, go for STR and INT on the side. But at higher levels i would focus on INT based on my own experience.

If your wondering about the Imbued rings, go for STR or AGI - the int rings suxx0rs

[Mildavyn]

Krilinye wrote:

Well, i deal much more magic dmg, more than 3 times magic dmg than melee dmg (this does include our noble blade and Sandras tho as they deal mental dmg)

(probably with around 900 INT and 500 STR)

Its very much possible that if you focus on str you will see that your melee skills seem to deal much more dmg than your magic skills. I wouldnt know tho, cus i havent tryed.

But im quite happy with INT focusing, i like the DPS that i put out while doing my job.

EDIT: Btw, back on track to what the OP asked for: I would probably, as a low lvl Troub, go for STR and INT on the side. But at higher levels i would focus on INT based on my own experience.

If your wondering about the Imbued rings, go for STR or AGI - the int rings suxx0rs

According to this parse, 46% of your damage comes from YOUR INT-based attacks, including precise and dissonant note. 40% was from YOUR STR based CAs and auto-attack, and the rest is either procs from other classes, or things ive not heard of. Now by your own admission, your INT is almost double that of your STR, which suggests to me that perhaps STR does have a bigger impact on your total damage than INT.

[Tri]

don't forget that on the 40% str based damage, 26% was from auto attack Those 26% were reached thanks to HASTE and DPS mods, which as a troub should be around 50 for both, self buffed that is. don't forget the not so new curve means 900 INT won't give you two times as much added damage than 500 STR. don't forget that dissonant and precise note increase GROUP DPS, and it adds up very nicely, so you do want your INT to be high. And once again given the curve, try to keep balanced stats.

[Mildavyn]

Auto attack is still based entirely on STR. The damage from Aria and Precision is based on the INT of the person casting the spell that it procs off. Increasing your INT will not in anyway increase the proc damage of your allies. It will however increase the damage for your procs. Your comments about haste and DPS however are all true, as is the point about the INT and STR numbers not having double the effect.

Overall, at level 70 i would be aiming to get 500 in both, and then focus on INT.

[Krilinye]

All the procs etc. are mainly INT based so, if my calculations are correct, 56% of my dmg is INT based.

[RanmaBoyType]

don't forget that dissonant and precise note increase GROUP DPS, and it adds up very nicely, so you do want your INT to be high.

QFE...

for the trouby who does not know, the damage that aria's does for the entire group is based off YOUR int.  so a wizard with 200 int and a wizard with 800 int will still both proc exactly the same damage on arias if they are in your group.  The higher your int, the more damage aria's does for the other 5 members of your group as well.  STR however adds nothing else to your group.

So, for solo, perhaps str, but in any group or raid situation i would put my money in INT.

In my trouby group on raids (also knowing the fury is my fiancee) i always get vim.  The added damage to aria's for the entire group is more than any 1 caster can do on his own with the extra int from vim.  I however still have a ways to go before i reach 900 int, so i gain a big boost from vim on aria's(master 1 @ 45% proc rate).

[Tri]

try it for yourself : your INT affects the damage of the proc for all group members your INT at the time the spell is cast is the value used, so if you are not using your self buff for one of the many IFs that require another buff, think of casting it before casting Aria then cancel it. This also means casting Aria after recieving any other INT increase as well as high INT equip Happy Testing

[Pogopuschel]

Have you ever tried to examine that with a parse? I do so because the UI (maintained buff bar) doesn't adjust when I take the self buff on again. BUT that could also be a display bug. What is correct?

[ForgottenFoundling]

The self buff, PotM, cancel self buff thing is a display bug.  The mechanics of it were adjusted in the game a while back.  It's the same thing with CoB for dirges and if you want empirical evidence, go to the other site and check out the dirge thread.

Once again, I will reiterate, PotM is NOT your int for the group.

[Mildavyn]

Paikis@Venekor wrote:

The damage from Aria and Precision is based on the INT of the person casting the spell that it procs off. Increasing your INT will not in anyway increase the proc damage of your allies.

QFE

[Pogopuschel]

ForgottenFoundling wrote:

The self buff, PotM, cancel self buff thing is a display bug.  The mechanics of it were adjusted in the game a while back.  It's the same thing with CoB for dirges and if you want empirical evidence, go to the other site and check out the dirge thread.

Once again, I will reiterate, PotM is NOT your int for the group.

Too lazy to search since the board search is really testing my patience... I believe you. It's just that, like in this thread, so many people have argued about it over and over again...

[RanmaBoyType]

Paikis@Venekor wrote:

The damage from Aria and Precision is based on the INT of the person casting the spell that it procs off. Increasing your INT will not in anyway increase the proc damage of your allies.

QFE

That is interesting.  Has this been proven, or is it a display bug that shows the damage of aria's to be equal to the damage based off the troubador? 

having 2 accounts, i usually play my troubador with my SK.  my SK's int is relatively low atm, and when grouped with my fiancee she gives the trouby VIM, since according tot he maintained buffs window, the damage on Aria's on my SK never changes based on the int of the SK (i can drop and recast aria's as much as i like, this value never changes if i change the int of the SK), however if i change the int of the trouby, and recast the buff now the damage changes to the same value for all members of the group, the trouby, the SK and the fury.

Is it a display bug that shows the incorrect value?  I will check parses later tonight, wifey and me are going to palace of the awakened to further work on claymore.  I will bring back results of # of procs, highest proc, lowest proc and average proc for all 3 trouby, sk and fury, and their relative INT.

[RanmaBoyType]

OK, so wifey and i went to Palace of the awakened tonight.  spent about 2 hours in there killing birdies.

The troubadors INT was 472 the entire time, and that never changed.  Inspecting the maintained buff for aria's on all 3 pc's showed exactly the same spell damage of 287-479 however the resulsts were varying.  please see the following.

Fury - INT 599, (using a +25 spell damage from various items)

#procs - 351, crits 160

total damage - 168,294

average hit - 479.47

high hit - 679

low hit - 305

Trouby - INT 472

# procs - 246, crits 23

total damage - 99,251

average hit - 403.46

high hit - 657

low hit - 288

SK - int 194 (defensive)

# procs - 212, crits 19 (/shudder)

total damage - 71,966

average hit - 339.46

high hit - 525

low hit - 239

looking at the avg damage is not totally accurate due to the difference in crit damage, etc.. however looking at the low hit vs high hit out of the 3 classes, you can see they fall in relation directly to the int of the caster (fury has the highest int, and the "highest" low hit and high hit, trouby next, and SK last)

from my look at it then, it is a display error on aria's, and that the damge of the proc is in fact based on the INT of the caster proccing it.

on a side note, i gotta do something about my SK's number of crits /shudder..

[Pogopuschel]

Thx for the experiment

[aelder~]

Good numbers and examples Akito. I did the same with raid parse and was getting average hit higher for wizard with 660 INT vs warlock with 843 INT but the average results were off for the same reason as crits favored the wizard, as did spell damage items.

With respect to the crits.  The SKs aren't much worse than the troubadors', ~10%.  /ouch indeed.  What is going on with the Fury the she achieve 4x-5x more crits?

Thanks,

[Lanalia]

aelder~ wrote:

What is going on with the Fury the she achieve 4x-5x more crits?

Thanks,

I'm the Fury he speaks of.

An explanation of why I crit so much:

34.9% from AA's (8 points in Stormcaller's Control which equals 28%, plus 6.9% from Shapeshift, the first ability in the Druid tree, since I always wield a mace) 2% from Mark of Awakening 7.5% from Don't Kill the Messenger

Because the SK is somewhat self-sufficient (most of the time) with heals, I'm able to really dish out the damage, which is nice.

[Spider]

any way u look at it u want to balance them both to around 500  but after 500 due to diminishing returns u will gain more fro raising  int  because things like ur procs and dots arnt capped yet so still ahve room to gain damage

[aelder~]

Triag wrote:

don't forget that on the 40% str based damage, 26% was from auto attack Those 26% were reached thanks to HASTE and DPS mods, which as a troub should be around 50 for both, self buffed that is.

Self-buffed dps mod of 50?  How so?  Since we have no dps buff, it must all come from gear and adornments.  Off hand I can think of:

Scintillating Judicious Clasp (neck) = 10 dps

Scintillating Compositie Gear (bow) = 10 dps

Ivy-Shrouded Eqarring of Tunare = 8 dps

The only time I get over 50 dps mod self-buffed would be the 6 minutes once in a blue moon i can come up with Bravo's Dance...

[Tri]

the acryla band of strength, or whatever the name is, it procs a 28 dps mod, and very often too. Add in bravo and you have 100 dps and haste, but you know how often you get that ^^ Shucks for the graphic display bug on the proc damage, guess i'll have to check some ACT logs just to get a global idea of the proc damage