Uhh.... Tsunami?

[Duave]

Tsunami should block this right? blah "hits YOU for 501 points of crushing damage." Did it break this morning? What's going on?

[DynamicPerforman]

Please give more details, such as:

1. Were you in combat?
2. What monster are you talking about?
3. Did you try to recrate this?
4. What specific attack hit you, or was it just crushing damage?

[Duave]

DynamicPerformance wrote:

Please give more details, such as:

1. Were you in combat?
2. What monster are you talking about?
3. Did you try to recrate this?
4. What specific attack hit you, or was it just crushing damage?

It was a duel, I'm guessing I'm in combat? It was straight crushing damage, 5 times.

[Rrawl]

You are not in combat until you make an offensive action toward the opponent. You must attack or taunt them in some fashion. Until you are engaged in combat Tsunami will not work.

[Rrawl]

You are not in combat until you make an offensive action toward the opponent. You must attack or taunt them in some fashion. Until you are engaged in combat Tsunami will not work.

[Zutan]

I use tsunami to raid pull all the time without attacking any mobs.  However, I do have to be in combat mode.  I just target myself and turn on auto attack. It has worked for me every time so far.

[DynamicPerforman]

Duave wrote:

It was a duel, I'm guessing I'm in combat? It was straight crushing damage, 5 times.

You guess?  "You start fighting" is the big indicator there. Check your logs.  Also, MAYBE you could let us know what class it is that is crushing you for 501 points of damage.

[Anjin]

AFAIK Tsunami will only stop autoattacks, not CA's.  So if a CA does crushing damage, you'll still get hit.

[Ocello]

Whaaaaat?  Tsunai only stops autoattacks?  You will have to prove that one to me, as the description seems to be pretty straight-forward that it is any attack and does not mention a thing about CA's.

[xPALAx]

Tsunami just protects you from physical damage. All other damage types will hit you, e.g. disease, even when Tsunami is up. Description of Tsunami Spell: For a brief moment the monk will be able to riposte all melee damage from the front, and parry all damage from behind

[Anjin]

OK - a couple of points here - "generally" tsunami will stop ca's, but some ca's get through (even melee based ca's).  Also, if a mob risposts your attack, this will go through tsunami.  I would use tsunami AND outward calm at the same time to really minimise on possible dmg taken.

Unfortunately the description for Tsunami is not true.

[Aim]

Caster will riposte 100% of frontal attacks and parry the same percentage from other quadrants......... (no qualifications in that statement)

 Tsunami is broken at the moment. This used to work but since EoF it no longer works as intended.

[PantherXX]

Aimen wrote:

Caster will riposte 100% of frontal attacks and parry the same percentage from other quadrants......... (no qualifications in that statement)

 Tsunami is broken at the moment. This used to work but since EoF it no longer works as intended.

I find that Tsunami still works as it always has.  The biggest change they made is actually in how/when you enter combat.  Basically, if you are not in combat, then Tsunami will not work ... and body pulling will not put you in combat.  As someone else mentioned, one way to guarantee you are in combat is to target yourself and turn on autoattack.  Optionally, pull with a ranged attack, hex doll, or taunt where you can.  I don't recall vividly how things were in DoF, but I can guarantee you that Tsunami stopped neither debuffs or melee damage based CAs in KoS.  Any monk that ever pulled in Labs can tell you about the combination of Debilitate + Hammer Fist = Death.  That was a melee dmg based debuff and and a crushing (I think) combat art.  Tsunami will only work against autoattack damage.  The problem may be that you cannot actually repost a combat art, so 100% repost will not work on CAs.  Perhaps you can actually parry a CA from the sides/back, but I haven't seen it first hand.

[DynamicPerforman]

Tsunami blocks all non-precise melee attacks (INCLUDING CA's) It does not block the following:

• Any Magical attacks
• Any debuffs
• Any precise strikes (hammerfist is a good example) look at many guardian attacks "Has a very low chance to miss" means it ignores base defense and parry.  It can be dodged (our body final) or deflected (never seen a parry versus hammerfist, but i deflect it all the time)

[Harbing]

DynamicPerformance wrote:

Tsunami blocks all non-precise melee attacks (INCLUDING CA's) It does not block the following:

• Any Magical attacks
• Any debuffs
• Any precise strikes (hammerfist is a good example) look at many guardian attacks "Has a very low chance to miss" means it ignores base defense and parry.  It can be dodged (our body final) or deflected (never seen a parry versus hammerfist, but i deflect it all the time)

Amen! same goes for PvP btw; i ve had many solo fights eg. vs Brigs and Tsunami ripostes/parries every CA and autoattack except the debuffs attached to the CAs or stuff like "thermal shocker device" (magical attack). Caine Blades Darathar

[Feefai]

Tsunami works just fine (as well as it has since the combat-requirement nerf) However, at least whenever I've tried it, it has never worked in a duel.

[Bladewind]

Mechanically, all it does is set your base avoidance to 100%.  It turns any successful avoid from the front into a riposte and any from another quadrant into a parry.  That 100% is vs. an even con solo mob without any sort of buffs/bonuses. 

If you are fighting heroics/epics, they have varying degrees of accuracy bonuses.  In addition, if the mob is a higher level than you are, it receives additional accuracy bonuses.  As was mentioned previously, certain CAs also have accuracy bonuses attached and occasionally can outright ignore avodiance.  Finally, mobs/players receive further acuracy bonuses from stances, buffs, and equipment.  I've personally had my level 64 brigand fighting with over +100 to offensive skills before - meaning he attacks the same as a lvl 84 mob.  Without tsunami, your avoidance vs this would reduce to about 12ish% (assuming defensive stance master).  With tsunami, your effective avodiance vs this is more like 15-20%.

In summary, your avoid vs an even level solo mob should be about 100% with tsunami on, but the more you move away from that situation(solo-->heroic-->epic and +levels) will reduce your effective avoidance.  Special hits and further buffs to your adversary's offensive skills will reduce your effective avoidance even more until you get to the extreme of the pve spectrum which would be a lvl 75^^^x4 named - your base avoid vs this mob is effectively 13-15% without tsunami and maybe 15-20% with it.  The only way to have solid avoid vs these types of mobs is to heavily debuff their offensive skills.

My musings on the history of tsunami and avoid/mit balancing in eq2:

This skill was much more effective back in t6 when introduced because mobs did not have nearly as massive bonuses to their offensive skills.  Back then, plate wearers could generally achieve 50ish% avoid and 70ish% mit.  Conversely, brawlers could achieve 70ish% avoid and 50ish% mit - balance!  When t7 came around, plate wearers had their avoid shoot through the roof and become roughly equal ours, so mobs were tweaked with massive offensive skill bonuses to keep high mit+high avoid tanks from being invulnerable.  Unfortunately, our relative avoid and mit stayed the same, so we became severely gimped due to our low mit.  The pendulum has swung back slightly since then with the 'uncontested avoidance' adjustments to our stances, but we are still weaker relative to where we stood prior to the release of kos and eof.  Although the penalty to avoidance has been reduced, plate wearers can still approximately equal our avoidance while appreciating the inherent mit advantage of heavy armor.  This is exascerbated in the raid setting where a tower shield grants more uncontested avoid than a brawler defensive stance.  I still do not understand why we do not have a difinitive avoidance advantage over plate wearers...  Back in t5/t6 when it was balanced, everything was dandy (or at least i remeber it so ).

edit - caught one typo, probably 10 more.

[Jobeson]

it works perfectly in duels xeptimux Blade I believe you are confused. Tsunami does not simply make you have 100% avoidance for solo mobs your level it makes you truly 100% avoidance.  You can NOT avoid a riposte either in a duel or from a mob no matter your avoidance.  So when you fight a brigand, swashy, another monk, any epic mob they can still riposte and hit you just fine because the riposte does not check for avoidance. You can not avoid barrages from mobs in tsunami they are effectively a spell You can no longer block arrows with tsunami... *remembers the good ole days of blocking sniper shot with tsunami* Some CAs like cheap shot go through tsunami an simply can not be avoided. Tsunami is godly and it is 100% true avoidance for all mele based attacks, no barrages, no spells, no ripostes, no damage shields.  If monks did not have tsunami I would probably of betrayed into a bruiser when I came back to EQ2. 

[Bladewind]

Bring up your persona window the next time you use tsunami and look at your broken-down avoidance display.  Composite avoidance will be set to 100% because it sets base to 100%.  Parry and deflection are left at their normal values.  Mobs with extremely high offensive skill bonuses will still be able to hit because those bonuses increase their level relative to yours for the purpose of determining if an attack will hit.  That is why solo and heroic mobs essentially never penetrate it, but epic mobs, who have large offensive skill bonuses, can.  Once you debuff a raid mob's offenses, it becomes essentially 100% again, making it still very useful in the raid setting when used properly.

[Kota]

doesn't work 'perfectly' in duels.  that would imply that it does what the description says it does.  it doesn't.  a brig killed me thru tsunami the other day. slashing damage.  ty edit: it wasn't a dot either

[Kasai]

I know that it works 100% fine on pvp servers assuming your in combat (which you should be because what noob uses tsuanmi from the start of a fight anyway).

[Jobeson]

Bladewind wrote:

Bring up your persona window the next time you use tsunami and look at your broken-down avoidance display.  Composite avoidance will be set to 100% because it sets base to 100%.  Parry and deflection are left at their normal values.  Mobs with extremely high offensive skill bonuses will still be able to hit because those bonuses increase their level relative to yours for the purpose of determining if an attack will hit.  That is why solo and heroic mobs essentially never penetrate it, but epic mobs, who have large offensive skill bonuses, can.  Once you debuff a raid mob's offenses, it becomes essentially 100% again, making it still very useful in the raid setting when used properly.

it displays 100% avoidance yes but no mob can hit through tsunami not even epic mobs. Solo mobs do penetrate it with barrages.  go take on a solo mob in mmcastle and tsunami it before the barrage you will be hit by it. Epic mobs do penetrate it with barrages.  You simply notice these more. Epic mobs do not auto attack or have basic CAs through tsunami only their barrages, nukes, ripostes go through tsunami.  IE if you are meleing an epic mob he will riposte you for a good deal of damage in tsunami.  This is not an auto attack this is a riposte.  If you mele a solo mob long enough in tsunami he will riposte you assuming it is capable of doing a riposte. Ripostes such as ripostes in duels, such as the brigand FD riposte or the swashy counter attack spell do penetrate tsunami because they are meant to have 100% hit chance. 

[Chay]

Bladewind wrote:

Bring up your persona window the next time you use tsunami and look at your broken-down avoidance display.  Composite avoidance will be set to 100% because it sets base to 100%.  Parry and deflection are left at their normal values.  Mobs with extremely high offensive skill bonuses will still be able to hit because those bonuses increase their level relative to yours for the purpose of determining if an attack will hit.  That is why solo and heroic mobs essentially never penetrate it, but epic mobs, who have large offensive skill bonuses, can.  Once you debuff a raid mob's offenses, it becomes essentially 100% again, making it still very useful in the raid setting when used properly.

So would a boost to parry and deflection be sufficient bring back some of the balance lost that you described in your previous post? Just curious. I would say, that if there ever was a cap increase we'd find ourselves in an even deeper hole without significant upgrades to abilities.

[Lildebbie]

i know that this is a n00bish question and that it has probably been answered before, but where in h@#1 do i get tsunami?  it's not a part of the 55 alchemist scroll and i couldn't buy it from the monk trainer (although i was only 53 when i was there looking for it.)  i know this isn't what this thread is for, but it reminded me that i a 55 and trying to fight off freep scouts without it. 

[Odinwray Treewalker]

too answer the question as too where you find it, it is an ancient teachings ability. you can only buy these at adept1, adept3, and master1 quality, there is no apprentice for them. an alchemist needs a special scroll called "ancient teachings of tsunami" too be able too craft it at adept3 for you