Why no buyback button? - Page 3

Korpo · 03-21-2007, 08:07 PM

ArivenGemini wrote:

How does it negatively affect your gameplay if someone has the option to go "oops, I shouldnt have sold that.. let me buy it back"? Does it make your mobs harder? Does it trivialize instances? maybe make all x4 raids actually need 5 groups? Does it maybe change your character so it has a green tint and you use the vomit and cough emote all the time? Or more concisely, at what point do people stop trying to control how others want to play the game and interact with it, and actualy start coming up with productive suggestions as alternatives? It is clear you dont like the idea... ok, come up with an alternative that solves the problem of accidentally sold items in a fair and reasonable way, and champion -it- instead of just putting down other peoples suggestions.

I don't have to make up an alternative, since either there's no problem, or the problem is unsolvable. I'll explain: Problem: Players clicking items too fast, in laggy areas, whatever... sell items they don't mean to. Solution: When a player gets an item they want to keep, they go to a vendor and check the "Not for sale" box. Result: The solution is already in place, no need to reinvent the wheel. Problem: Players don't want to take the time/care to check the "Not for sale" box, and sell items they don't mean to. Solution: Players need to learn to take more time/care to protect what they want to keep. Result: Nothing can force players to exercise caution, other than a tough lesson or two. Again, if a buyback system was put in place, players would find a way to sell things they didn't want to sell. There could be 30 prompts and a field where you have to type the name of the item you are selling, and players would still do it "accidentally". If there's a system in place to prevent accidental sales already, why would system number 2, 3, 4, 45, or 134 stop the determined "accidental" seller? Also, where did anyone try to control how others play and interact with the game? Explaining that putting in a fix for a problem that doesn't exist is silly is hardly controlling people's gameplay, unless you consider my telling people to "be more careful" is controlling your chosen "not careful" style of gameplay.

Deggials · 03-21-2007, 08:08 PM

Scald wrote:

It never ceases to amaze me that people who play a game feel that it isn't any fun if it is made more user friendly. And, even if they wouldn't be personally affected by an improvement, feel it is their role in life to shoot down any good idea or improvement which would make the game easier for others. Example of other suggestions these folks feel it is their duty to personally attack and explain away as being unneeded:
1. Removing weight from coins
2. Making Kelethin citizens have the same travel options as Q and F citizens (not more, just the same)
3. Allowing more then one character per account to sell or at least warning a player if placing an item up for sale will remove another character's items.4. Allowing F and Q chars on the same account to make use of the shared bank slots
and now we can add
5. Adding a buyback button to the merchants
There is a big difference between adding user friendliness to a game and trivializing the content. None of the above issues would trivialize anything. But, they would make the game either more enjoyable, remove drudgery, or just in general add convenience. People who shoot these types of ideas down simply for the sake of being negative never cease to amaze me. Give me an actual in game reason why the above items would be bad? I don't mean something silly like "it's never been that way" or "it's alway been that way" but concrete actual arguments of why these things would negatively impact the game. I would really love to be enlightened.

number 3 would make a lot of sense and would eliminate the need for 4 somewhat . Also don't forget to add,

6. A forum here letting us know when the servers are going down for updates/maintenance. Why not put this information on the main site, main forums(here somewhere) or the updater? They put the update notes here so why not add that as well?

Korpo · 03-21-2007, 08:11 PM

Dense@Unrest wrote:

However, accidentally selling something to the broker is a frustrating byproduct of a poorly designed UI (don't even get me started on all the things that are poorly designed in this UI). Changing this "feature" has nothing at all to do with altering the challenges of the game, it's just a workaround for a stupid design that annoys many players.

If you want to sell something, you click "Sell". If you don't, you do not. I fail to see how that is a poorly designed UI. Are you arguing that the word "Sell" is ambiguous?

StarryEyedElf · 03-21-2007, 09:23 PM

Any posts removed were removed because they were looking to stir the pot or were off topic. Stick to the discussion without resorting to trying to annoy others.

Freddy101 · 03-21-2007, 09:36 PM

Deggials wrote:

Scald wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me that people who play a game feel that it isn't any fun if it is made more user friendly. And, even if they wouldn't be personally affected by an improvement, feel it is their role in life to shoot down any good idea or improvement which would make the game easier for others. Example of other suggestions these folks feel it is their duty to personally attack and explain away as being unneeded:
1. Removing weight from coins
2. Making Kelethin citizens have the same travel options as Q and F citizens (not more, just the same)
3. Allowing more then one character per account to sell or at least warning a player if placing an item up for sale will remove another character's items.4. Allowing F and Q chars on the same account to make use of the shared bank slots
and now we can add
5. Adding a buyback button to the merchants
There is a big difference between adding user friendliness to a game and trivializing the content. None of the above issues would trivialize anything. But, they would make the game either more enjoyable, remove drudgery, or just in general add convenience. People who shoot these types of ideas down simply for the sake of being negative never cease to amaze me. Give me an actual in game reason why the above items would be bad? I don't mean something silly like "it's never been that way" or "it's alway been that way" but concrete actual arguments of why these things would negatively impact the game. I would really love to be enlightened.
number 3 would make a lot of sense and would eliminate the need for 4 somewhat . Also don't forget to add,
6. A forum here letting us know when the servers are going down for updates/maintenance. Why not put this information on the main site, main forums(here somewhere) or the updater? They put the update notes here so why not add that as well?

I'm probably just distracted over dinner but what about this quoted post is on topic? Neither point 3 nor the 6th point made has anything to do with this thread topic. Isn't staying on topic required? Well since it was deemed ok I would assume mine is as well. Taking away weight from coins is a bigger deal for obvious reasons. It's bad enough now that cloth casters don't have to suffer as much for a weight penalty. Why remove weight from coins? Why not just remove weight period and let everyone carry 50 billions tons of gear?

Korpo wrote:

Dense@Unrest wrote:
Isn't it wonderful how the internet's anonymity brings out the real person in some posters? They'll post the kind of thing they would never say to someone in person (otherwise you must have a lot of bruises).
How is this OP's request even hurting you in any way to have such a strong negative reaction to it? Big deal, if you don't like this option, don't use it, but why deny it to all the people that want it.
Once you get out of middle school you'll learn that grownups don't solve their arguments with fistfights. As an aside though, I work as a consultant and have to explain things to people all day long that they don't want to hear. Oddly enough, they pay a lot of money to have me tell them that they're dumb. The internet's anonymity doesn't change the fact that there are dumb people out there that need to be told they're dumb, it just lets me do my job for free when I'm bored. As I explained before, if the item buyback feature were implemented, then we'd have to implement the "Are you sure you want to log out with items in your buyback queue?" feature, then we'd have to implement the "Are you sure you're sure you want to log out with items in your buyback queue?" feature, then we'd have to implement the "How about you type your name in this box if you want to log out?" feature... Otherwise we'd be in this same place in a year or two with people complaining that they had items in their queue and "lagged out" or "their computer crashed" or "their sister tripped over the network cable and then broke the cable modem with a hammer". Where does it end, when I have to type in my SSN to sell a piece of armor?

Or instead of pretending were in a fantasy book making stuff up they could just do what they did in eq1 or any number of the other 7 mmo's i've seen with this feature that didn't have to fall into a nasty repetitive loop to ad infinitum.

StarryEyedElf · 03-21-2007, 09:40 PM

Freddy101, check your PMs.

MacKay · 03-22-2007, 02:19 AM

Korpo wrote:

Dense@Unrest wrote:
However, accidentally selling something to the broker is a frustrating byproduct of a poorly designed UI (don't even get me started on all the things that are poorly designed in this UI). Changing this "feature" has nothing at all to do with altering the challenges of the game, it's just a workaround for a stupid design that annoys many players.
If you want to sell something, you click "Sell". If you don't, you do not. I fail to see how that is a poorly designed UI. Are you arguing that the word "Sell" is ambiguous?

I think the point has been made before, but I'll reiterate: sometimes the lag from the zone and my elderly computer 'autosells' no matter how careful I am. More than once I've had it sell a couple items in a row that I didn't click to sell. I use the "don't sell box" liberally. I have had the ui sell things I was trying to keep from selling. I rightclick rather than leftclick when selecting items in the merchant transaction to be even more certain I don't accidentally sell by mistake. I'm pleased that the merchant always works out well for you. It doesn't always for me. I don't think giving us a little extra protection dumbs the game down or takes away personal responsibility. I'd really like to be able to buy a better computer for the game, but it's just not on. Whether it's a buyback button or the ability to click the 'don't sell' box outside of the transaction, I'm for it.

Eldcen · 03-22-2007, 05:07 AM

I'm for a buy-back button and think it should be put in. It doesn't impact gameplay. It doesn't "make the game easier". It justs makes for a better designed UI. Like someone mentioned, if you want, make it so the buy-back price is double the price you sold it for - that's fine - just provide the option.

ratman22 · 03-22-2007, 09:30 AM

Korpo wrote:

Dense@Unrest wrote:
However, accidentally selling something to the broker is a frustrating byproduct of a poorly designed UI (don't even get me started on all the things that are poorly designed in this UI). Changing this "feature" has nothing at all to do with altering the challenges of the game, it's just a workaround for a stupid design that annoys many players.
If you want to sell something, you click "Sell". If you don't, you do not. I fail to see how that is a poorly designed UI. Are you arguing that the word "Sell" is ambiguous?

The poorly designed part is that the interface to protect an item from being sold is combined with the interface for selling it. That's just asking for trouble. There should be a way to do this before getting to the selling point.

The buyback button is really just a workaround for this poor design. Other games have managed to create interfaces for this that are not as risky, this really shouldn't be so problematic to implement.

James_UK · 03-22-2007, 10:08 AM

I would like this implemented as well. Anyone that doesn't like it - don't use it.

Fumbles · 03-22-2007, 11:00 AM

While I have no need for the "buyback" option (I always run thru my salable items and not for sale flag things before selling the rest) I have no problem with it being added as long as it only lasts while you have the sale window open. I am against buyback lingering longer then that as it can be abused.

When you open the bank, it should automatically convert coins in your inventory. Why must you drag all coins over to the bank, then drag them back to your inventory?

Ishya · 03-22-2007, 11:06 AM

you can turn off the "doubleclick for selling" off in your game options (if i recall this correctly)

Mildavyn · 03-22-2007, 12:19 PM

James_UK wrote:

I would like this implemented as well. Anyone that doesn't like it - don't use it.

I would like my Troubador to auto-attack for 10,000 damage per swing. I would like this implimented. Anyone who doesn't like it - don't play a troubador.... See how ridiculous that was?

Anyways, on to the meat of my post. I'll state right up front that i really don't care if the buy-back option happens (although i WILL be extremely surprised, and a little bit annoyed since it will have meant a REAL issue hasn't been fixed) Now that that is out of the way, here's my take on the issue so far.

1. Your computer lags. You know this. You say you have taken steps to fix or control this issue, yet you still have problems with your mouse double-clicking the sell button? I'm sorry, but i simply dont see this happening. I was running EQ2 on a machine WELL below the recommended settings, i had to run on extreme-low-performance,w ith almost everything turned as low as possible, or off. I never had a problem with selling things.

2. Real life examples that end with the death of someone are not relevant here. If clicking that sell button would send an electric charge or spear through your chair and IT WOULD KILL YOU! then your examples will be relevant. Until you play EQ2 in an electric chair...

3. Actions DO have consequences. If you stick a knife into a toaster, you are going to be shocked. If you put your fingers into a fire, you will get hurt. If you put a valuable item in the 'cheap' pile at a garage sale and someone buys it, you aint getting it back for 1 dollar. We already have stupid laws(you almost have to be mentally [Removed for Content] to believe some of our laws are necessary) Perhaps this is just another part of society that people need to be 'protected' from. Also perhaps if people had to take responsibility for their own actions then we wouldn't need all the signs and BS that comes from people trying to protect themselves from other people's stupidity. Its not my fault you're stupid, why should i pay for your mistake?

4. Lets ditch all the confirmation buttons please, if i didn't want to sell it, why the heck would i have clicked the button? If i didn't want to buy 100 tuber strands at 4g each, why would i have set the slider there and clicked 'buy'? I will say the option to attune your gear when you equip it is good. It used to be that you had to right-click every single item and attune it, THEN equip it. Now you equip everything and just click all the attune button. Love it.

5. I really don't care one way or the other, give them their buy-back option, charge them atleast 10x the sell price and be done with it.

Korpo · 03-22-2007, 12:49 PM

Dense@Unrest wrote:

The poorly designed part is that the interface to protect an item from being sold is combined with the interface for selling it. That's just asking for trouble. There should be a way to do this before getting to the selling point.
The buyback button is really just a workaround for this poor design. Other games have managed to create interfaces for this that are not as risky, this really shouldn't be so problematic to implement.

A feature to be able to set the "Not for sale" tag outside of the "Sell" interface is drastically different from a buyback feature: Setting the NFS tag is a proactive way to prevent the sale of something, and demonstrates someone taking action to protect something, it shows that they are being responsible. A buyback feature is a reactive way to get something back after you make a mistake, it shows that you were irresponsible in the first place, and want someone to provide a method for you to continue to be irresponsible. Having the two interfaces combined is less than ideal, but it's not "asking for trouble". The NFS checkbox doesn't look anything like the Sell button, it's not even that close to it within the interface. If your computer is sooooooooo laggy, or your mouse sooooooooo sticky that you have problems accidentally clicking Sell instead of checking NFS, you need to upgrade or clean your mouse. The distance between the Sell button and the NFS checkbox is probably about the same distance as between hotbar key 1 and hotbar key 3, yet nobody seems to complain that their mouse lags and sticks when they try to cast spells, or that they accidentally clicked the wrong hotbar button, or that they want an "Are you sure you want to cast Ice Comet?" prompt.

Korpo · 03-22-2007, 12:53 PM

Paikis@Venekor wrote:

1. Your computer lags. You know this. You say you have taken steps to fix or control this issue, yet you still have problems with your mouse double-clicking the sell button? I'm sorry, but i simply dont see this happening. I was running EQ2 on a machine WELL below the recommended settings, i had to run on extreme-low-performance,w ith almost everything turned as low as possible, or off. I never had a problem with selling things.

I've raided on an IBM T42 laptop. Centrino 1.6Ghz or so, 1Gb RAM, onboard ATI graphics, and using my cell phone tethered as an Internet connection. It wasn't great, but I didn't lag enough to "accidentally" sell things. Then again, I look before I click. The times that I have accidentally sold things, I chalked it up as a cheap reminder to be more careful next time.

Korpo · 03-22-2007, 12:58 PM

Darnicus@Kithicor wrote:

When you open the bank, it should automatically convert coins in your inventory. Why must you drag all coins over to the bank, then drag them back to your inventory?

Amen my brother. As a neat trick though, you can find a mailbox, start a new mail, send a huge pile of coin, then cancel the mail. It will be returned to you in larger denominations. You just have to make sure that if you have 10p 230g 450s 670c on you, that you send a mail for 12p or so. If you send it for 10p, it won't do the conversion.

LadyAnnaAnna · 03-22-2007, 01:07 PM

EQ1 had buyback, though it wasn't called that. Ever notice in EQ1 how when you sold something to the vendor, it appeared in his window for selling (albeit at more than you sold it for?) It is that functionality, my dear forum goers, that lead to the wonderful pastime that is vendor mining. EQ2 doesn't have that at all. Once something is gone... it's -gone-. It would be a bit forgiving to implement something, and as long as they don't go crazy with it, I don't think it would make the game "EZ" as so many seem to fear.

Korpo · 03-22-2007, 01:20 PM

LadyAnnaAnna wrote:

I don't think it would make the game "EZ" as so many seem to fear.

Funny thing is, nobody arguing against a buyback feature has said that it would make the game easier.

Korpo · 03-22-2007, 01:27 PM

Freddy101 wrote:

Or instead of pretending were in a fantasy book making stuff up they could just do what they did in eq1 or any number of the other 7 mmo's i've seen with this feature that didn't have to fall into a nasty repetitive loop to ad infinitum.

For examples of how this game's devs don't practice moderation once they start down a path, compare the death penalty when the game came out vs. the death penalty now.

Ishya · 03-22-2007, 02:37 PM

LadyAnnaAnna wrote:

EQ1 had buyback, though it wasn't called that. Ever notice in EQ1 how when you sold something to the vendor, it appeared in his window for selling (albeit at more than you sold it for?) It is that functionality, my dear forum goers, that lead to the wonderful pastime that is vendor mining. EQ2 doesn't have that at all. Once something is gone... it's -gone-. It would be a bit forgiving to implement something, and as long as they don't go crazy with it, I don't think it would make the game "EZ" as so many seem to fear.

eq1 didnt have a buyback, what happened was the vendor had a set amount of slots if some were empty they got filled up with what you sold to that merchant. but once the slots all were filled up the stuff you sold to the merchant dissapeared too, (unless you bought a sold thing (from another player who sold to that merchant) and freed slots) and it only resetted at a server reset, so after 5-10 players sold to that merchant it didnt had any free slots left

Allisia · 03-22-2007, 02:46 PM

EQ1 merchants kept up with everything they were sold, but you couldn't always see them in the display. They only showed a certain number of items (55 or something like that). Sometimes you have to "seed" the merchant to see if he had what you wanted. This was known as merchant farming. EQ1 didn't have a buy back feature because merchants in EQ1 kept up with everything they bought, at least until the servers went down.

Scald · 03-22-2007, 03:54 PM

Paikis@Venekor wrote:

James_UK wrote:
I would like this implemented as well. Anyone that doesn't like it - don't use it.
I would like my Troubador to auto-attack for 10,000 damage per swing. I would like this implimented. Anyone who doesn't like it - don't play a troubador.... See how ridiculous that was?
Anyways, on to the meat of my post. I'll state right up front that i really don't care if the buy-back option happens (although i WILL be extremely surprised, and a little bit annoyed since it will have meant a REAL issue hasn't been fixed) Now that that is out of the way, here's my take on the issue so far.
1. Your computer lags. You know this. You say you have taken steps to fix or control this issue, yet you still have problems with your mouse double-clicking the sell button? I'm sorry, but i simply dont see this happening. I was running EQ2 on a machine WELL below the recommended settings, i had to run on extreme-low-performance,w ith almost everything turned as low as possible, or off. I never had a problem with selling things.
2. Real life examples that end with the death of someone are not relevant here. If clicking that sell button would send an electric charge or spear through your chair and IT WOULD KILL YOU! then your examples will be relevant. Until you play EQ2 in an electric chair...
3. Actions DO have consequences. If you stick a knife into a toaster, you are going to be shocked. If you put your fingers into a fire, you will get hurt. If you put a valuable item in the 'cheap' pile at a garage sale and someone buys it, you aint getting it back for 1 dollar. We already have stupid laws(you almost have to be mentally [I cannot control my vocabulary] to believe some of our laws are necessary) Perhaps this is just another part of society that people need to be 'protected' from. Also perhaps if people had to take responsibility for their own actions then we wouldn't need all the signs and BS that comes from people trying to protect themselves from other people's stupidity. Its not my fault you're stupid, why should i pay for your mistake?
4. Lets ditch all the confirmation buttons please, if i didn't want to sell it, why the heck would i have clicked the button? If i didn't want to buy 100 tuber strands at 4g each, why would i have set the slider there and clicked 'buy'? I will say the option to attune your gear when you equip it is good. It used to be that you had to right-click every single item and attune it, THEN equip it. Now you equip everything and just click all the attune button. Love it.
5. I really don't care one way or the other, give them their buy-back option, charge them atleast 10x the sell price and be done with it.

You must have saved your mother a ton of money, being that she could buy those pencils that didn't have erasers. Oh, btw, what do you do with that extra space on your keyboard where the backspace key normally goes?

ratman22 · 03-22-2007, 05:02 PM

Paikis@Venekor wrote:

James_UK wrote:
I would like this implemented as well. Anyone that doesn't like it - don't use it.
I would like my Troubador to auto-attack for 10,000 damage per swing. I would like this implimented. Anyone who doesn't like it - don't play a troubador.... See how ridiculous that was?
Anyways, on to the meat of my post. I'll state right up front that i really don't care if the buy-back option happens (although i WILL be extremely surprised, and a little bit annoyed since it will have meant a REAL issue hasn't been fixed) Now that that is out of the way, here's my take on the issue so far.
1. Your computer lags. You know this. You say you have taken steps to fix or control this issue, yet you still have problems with your mouse double-clicking the sell button? I'm sorry, but i simply dont see this happening. I was running EQ2 on a machine WELL below the recommended settings, i had to run on extreme-low-performance,w ith almost everything turned as low as possible, or off. I never had a problem with selling things.
2. Real life examples that end with the death of someone are not relevant here. If clicking that sell button would send an electric charge or spear through your chair and IT WOULD KILL YOU! then your examples will be relevant. Until you play EQ2 in an electric chair...
3. Actions DO have consequences. If you stick a knife into a toaster, you are going to be shocked. If you put your fingers into a fire, you will get hurt. If you put a valuable item in the 'cheap' pile at a garage sale and someone buys it, you aint getting it back for 1 dollar. We already have stupid laws(you almost have to be mentally [I cannot control my vocabulary] to believe some of our laws are necessary) Perhaps this is just another part of society that people need to be 'protected' from. Also perhaps if people had to take responsibility for their own actions then we wouldn't need all the signs and BS that comes from people trying to protect themselves from other people's stupidity. Its not my fault you're stupid, why should i pay for your mistake?
4. Lets ditch all the confirmation buttons please, if i didn't want to sell it, why the heck would i have clicked the button? If i didn't want to buy 100 tuber strands at 4g each, why would i have set the slider there and clicked 'buy'? I will say the option to attune your gear when you equip it is good. It used to be that you had to right-click every single item and attune it, THEN equip it. Now you equip everything and just click all the attune button. Love it.
5. I really don't care one way or the other, give them their buy-back option, charge them atleast 10x the sell price and be done with it.

Man, I'd hate to see how long of a reply you'll type about something you DO care about.

liveja · 03-22-2007, 05:10 PM

Dense@Unrest wrote:

Man, I'd hate to see how long of a reply you'll type about something you DO care about.

To both you, & the poster above you: is there any chance you guys could learn to NOT quote the entire lengthy post, if all you've got to say in response is a cheap little one-liner?

Thanx, in advance.

ratman22 · 03-22-2007, 06:22 PM

livejazz wrote:

To both you, & the poster above you: is there any chance you guys could learn to NOT quote the entire lengthy post, if all you've got to say in response is a cheap little one-liner?
Thanx, in advance.

I generally agree and don't do that, but in this case the length of the quoted reply was my point.

MacKay · 03-22-2007, 07:58 PM

Korpo wrote:

Paikis@Venekor wrote:
1. Your computer lags. You know this. You say you have taken steps to fix or control this issue, yet you still have problems with your mouse double-clicking the sell button? I'm sorry, but i simply dont see this happening. I was running EQ2 on a machine WELL below the recommended settings, i had to run on extreme-low-performance,w ith almost everything turned as low as possible, or off. I never had a problem with selling things.
I've raided on an IBM T42 laptop. Centrino 1.6Ghz or so, 1Gb RAM, onboard ATI graphics, and using my cell phone tethered as an Internet connection. It wasn't great, but I didn't lag enough to "accidentally" sell things. Then again, I look before I click. The times that I have accidentally sold things, I chalked it up as a cheap reminder to be more careful next time.

I'm amused by both of these comments automatically assuming it's the operator, not the ui, not the lag, not the computer, not the connection, not the video and memory intensity of the activities around the merchant. Nothing but the operator. Possibly, just possibly, your computers, your lag, your whatever is not the same as that of everyone else. Possibly even, not everything that can happen in game has happened to you. Possibly, people (in this case, me) are being very careful, don't have doubleclick to sell implemented, and still have troubles with the merchant. It's even possible that the people whom you are implying are careless or even incompetent, aren't. As it happens, I look before I click. Every time. You see, the first time it happened to me, I learned to be careful. Amazing, that other people can learn to be careful, can be careful, and yet they can have problems. Amazing. I'm for the button. Not for any of the other silly examples of "If we have a button, what next?!?!" Just the button. Sorry if that idea offends so much.

James_UK · 03-23-2007, 05:23 AM

Paikis@Venekor wrote:

James_UK wrote:
I would like this implemented as well. Anyone that doesn't like it - don't use it.
I would like my Troubador to auto-attack for 10,000 damage per swing. I would like this implimented. Anyone who doesn't like it - don't play a troubador.... See how ridiculous that was?

^^ Straw man

Chirpaa · 03-23-2007, 05:49 AM

I'd like a buy back option for when I do a oopsie, add me to the list of "for"

I'm against bells and whatnot for Kelethin to BBM travel though, sorry guys, I'm not on your "pro-convenience" side for everything.

Oh, and I want the dance animation changed for my human toons so they do the Macarena and for my wood elf so they earn the wood portion of their name. >.>

Korpo · 03-23-2007, 05:23 PM

MacKay wrote:

I'm amused by both of these comments automatically assuming it's the operator, not the ui, not the lag, not the computer, not the connection, not the video and memory intensity of the activities around the merchant. Nothing but the operator. ... I'm for the button. Not for any of the other silly examples of "If we have a button, what next?!?!" Just the button. Sorry if that idea offends so much.

Which is the point of the post; to highlight the fact that even in a horrible worst case scenerio, there's not enough lag in the world to make someone's mouse click an inch away from where they intended. What makes your "I'm for the button" argument any more valid than the next guy's argument, you know, the one that says he wants an "Are you sure you want to logout?" prompt? Once granted a measure of protection from your own carelessness, who are you to deny the next guy who wants two measures of protection? Or three? Or eighteen?

LadyAnnaAnna · 03-23-2007, 07:16 PM

Korpo wrote:

LadyAnnaAnna wrote:
I don't think it would make the game "EZ" as so many seem to fear.
Funny thing is, nobody arguing against a buyback feature has said that it would make the game easier.

Actually they have. Read the first page of the thread again.

03-21-2007, 08:07 PM	#61
Korpo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,141	ArivenGemini wrote: How does it negatively affect your gameplay if someone has the option to go "oops, I shouldnt have sold that.. let me buy it back"? Does it make your mobs harder? Does it trivialize instances? maybe make all x4 raids actually need 5 groups? Does it maybe change your character so it has a green tint and you use the vomit and cough emote all the time? Or more concisely, at what point do people stop trying to control how others want to play the game and interact with it, and actualy start coming up with productive suggestions as alternatives? It is clear you dont like the idea... ok, come up with an alternative that solves the problem of accidentally sold items in a fair and reasonable way, and champion -it- instead of just putting down other peoples suggestions. I don't have to make up an alternative, since either there's no problem, or the problem is unsolvable. I'll explain: Problem: Players clicking items too fast, in laggy areas, whatever... sell items they don't mean to. Solution: When a player gets an item they want to keep, they go to a vendor and check the "Not for sale" box. Result: The solution is already in place, no need to reinvent the wheel. Problem: Players don't want to take the time/care to check the "Not for sale" box, and sell items they don't mean to. Solution: Players need to learn to take more time/care to protect what they want to keep. Result: Nothing can force players to exercise caution, other than a tough lesson or two. Again, if a buyback system was put in place, players would find a way to sell things they didn't want to sell. There could be 30 prompts and a field where you have to type the name of the item you are selling, and players would still do it "accidentally". If there's a system in place to prevent accidental sales already, why would system number 2, 3, 4, 45, or 134 stop the determined "accidental" seller? Also, where did anyone try to control how others play and interact with the game? Explaining that putting in a fix for a problem that doesn't exist is silly is hardly controlling people's gameplay, unless you consider my telling people to "be more careful" is controlling your chosen "not careful" style of gameplay. __________________

03-21-2007, 08:08 PM	#62
Deggials Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 138	Scald wrote: It never ceases to amaze me that people who play a game feel that it isn't any fun if it is made more user friendly. And, even if they wouldn't be personally affected by an improvement, feel it is their role in life to shoot down any good idea or improvement which would make the game easier for others. Example of other suggestions these folks feel it is their duty to personally attack and explain away as being unneeded: 1. Removing weight from coins 2. Making Kelethin citizens have the same travel options as Q and F citizens (not more, just the same) 3. Allowing more then one character per account to sell or at least warning a player if placing an item up for sale will remove another character's items.4. Allowing F and Q chars on the same account to make use of the shared bank slots and now we can add 5. Adding a buyback button to the merchants There is a big difference between adding user friendliness to a game and trivializing the content. None of the above issues would trivialize anything. But, they would make the game either more enjoyable, remove drudgery, or just in general add convenience. People who shoot these types of ideas down simply for the sake of being negative never cease to amaze me. Give me an actual in game reason why the above items would be bad? I don't mean something silly like "it's never been that way" or "it's alway been that way" but concrete actual arguments of why these things would negatively impact the game. I would really love to be enlightened. number 3 would make a lot of sense and would eliminate the need for 4 somewhat . Also don't forget to add, 6. A forum here letting us know when the servers are going down for updates/maintenance. Why not put this information on the main site, main forums(here somewhere) or the updater? They put the update notes here so why not add that as well?

03-21-2007, 08:11 PM	#63
Korpo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,141	Dense@Unrest wrote: However, accidentally selling something to the broker is a frustrating byproduct of a poorly designed UI (don't even get me started on all the things that are poorly designed in this UI). Changing this "feature" has nothing at all to do with altering the challenges of the game, it's just a workaround for a stupid design that annoys many players. If you want to sell something, you click "Sell". If you don't, you do not. I fail to see how that is a poorly designed UI. Are you arguing that the word "Sell" is ambiguous? __________________

03-21-2007, 09:23 PM	#64
StarryEyedElf Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Right behind you. Posts: 195	Any posts removed were removed because they were looking to stir the pot or were off topic. Stick to the discussion without resorting to trying to annoy others. __________________

03-21-2007, 09:36 PM	#65
Freddy101 Lord Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 70	Deggials wrote: Scald wrote: It never ceases to amaze me that people who play a game feel that it isn't any fun if it is made more user friendly. And, even if they wouldn't be personally affected by an improvement, feel it is their role in life to shoot down any good idea or improvement which would make the game easier for others. Example of other suggestions these folks feel it is their duty to personally attack and explain away as being unneeded: 1. Removing weight from coins 2. Making Kelethin citizens have the same travel options as Q and F citizens (not more, just the same) 3. Allowing more then one character per account to sell or at least warning a player if placing an item up for sale will remove another character's items.4. Allowing F and Q chars on the same account to make use of the shared bank slots and now we can add 5. Adding a buyback button to the merchants There is a big difference between adding user friendliness to a game and trivializing the content. None of the above issues would trivialize anything. But, they would make the game either more enjoyable, remove drudgery, or just in general add convenience. People who shoot these types of ideas down simply for the sake of being negative never cease to amaze me. Give me an actual in game reason why the above items would be bad? I don't mean something silly like "it's never been that way" or "it's alway been that way" but concrete actual arguments of why these things would negatively impact the game. I would really love to be enlightened. number 3 would make a lot of sense and would eliminate the need for 4 somewhat . Also don't forget to add, 6. A forum here letting us know when the servers are going down for updates/maintenance. Why not put this information on the main site, main forums(here somewhere) or the updater? They put the update notes here so why not add that as well? I'm probably just distracted over dinner but what about this quoted post is on topic? Neither point 3 nor the 6th point made has anything to do with this thread topic. Isn't staying on topic required? Well since it was deemed ok I would assume mine is as well. Taking away weight from coins is a bigger deal for obvious reasons. It's bad enough now that cloth casters don't have to suffer as much for a weight penalty. Why remove weight from coins? Why not just remove weight period and let everyone carry 50 billions tons of gear? Korpo wrote: Dense@Unrest wrote: Isn't it wonderful how the internet's anonymity brings out the real person in some posters? They'll post the kind of thing they would never say to someone in person (otherwise you must have a lot of bruises). How is this OP's request even hurting you in any way to have such a strong negative reaction to it? Big deal, if you don't like this option, don't use it, but why deny it to all the people that want it. Once you get out of middle school you'll learn that grownups don't solve their arguments with fistfights. As an aside though, I work as a consultant and have to explain things to people all day long that they don't want to hear. Oddly enough, they pay a lot of money to have me tell them that they're dumb. The internet's anonymity doesn't change the fact that there are dumb people out there that need to be told they're dumb, it just lets me do my job for free when I'm bored. As I explained before, if the item buyback feature were implemented, then we'd have to implement the "Are you sure you want to log out with items in your buyback queue?" feature, then we'd have to implement the "Are you sure you're sure you want to log out with items in your buyback queue?" feature, then we'd have to implement the "How about you type your name in this box if you want to log out?" feature... Otherwise we'd be in this same place in a year or two with people complaining that they had items in their queue and "lagged out" or "their computer crashed" or "their sister tripped over the network cable and then broke the cable modem with a hammer". Where does it end, when I have to type in my SSN to sell a piece of armor? Or instead of pretending were in a fantasy book making stuff up they could just do what they did in eq1 or any number of the other 7 mmo's i've seen with this feature that didn't have to fall into a nasty repetitive loop to ad infinitum.

03-21-2007, 09:40 PM	#66
StarryEyedElf Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Right behind you. Posts: 195	Freddy101, check your PMs. __________________

03-22-2007, 02:19 AM	#67
MacKay Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 16	Korpo wrote: Dense@Unrest wrote: However, accidentally selling something to the broker is a frustrating byproduct of a poorly designed UI (don't even get me started on all the things that are poorly designed in this UI). Changing this "feature" has nothing at all to do with altering the challenges of the game, it's just a workaround for a stupid design that annoys many players. If you want to sell something, you click "Sell". If you don't, you do not. I fail to see how that is a poorly designed UI. Are you arguing that the word "Sell" is ambiguous? I think the point has been made before, but I'll reiterate: sometimes the lag from the zone and my elderly computer 'autosells' no matter how careful I am. More than once I've had it sell a couple items in a row that I didn't click to sell. I use the "don't sell box" liberally. I have had the ui sell things I was trying to keep from selling. I rightclick rather than leftclick when selecting items in the merchant transaction to be even more certain I don't accidentally sell by mistake. I'm pleased that the merchant always works out well for you. It doesn't always for me. I don't think giving us a little extra protection dumbs the game down or takes away personal responsibility. I'd really like to be able to buy a better computer for the game, but it's just not on. Whether it's a buyback button or the ability to click the 'don't sell' box outside of the transaction, I'm for it. __________________ MacKay Player of dozens of characters that no-one has ever heard of since 1999

03-22-2007, 05:07 AM	#68
Eldcen Tester Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 151	I'm for a buy-back button and think it should be put in. It doesn't impact gameplay. It doesn't "make the game easier". It justs makes for a better designed UI. Like someone mentioned, if you want, make it so the buy-back price is double the price you sold it for - that's fine - just provide the option. __________________ Test server: Eldiroth, 75 Wizard/80 Sage Moren, 54 Tailor Cendyan, 30 Jeweler < Heroes of Test > On Unrest: Ohforf (80 Wizard), 64 Necromancer, 51 Fury, 49 Paladin, 32 Conjuror All tradeskills at 80 with epics

03-22-2007, 09:30 AM	#69
ratman22 Lord Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 51	Korpo wrote: Dense@Unrest wrote: However, accidentally selling something to the broker is a frustrating byproduct of a poorly designed UI (don't even get me started on all the things that are poorly designed in this UI). Changing this "feature" has nothing at all to do with altering the challenges of the game, it's just a workaround for a stupid design that annoys many players. If you want to sell something, you click "Sell". If you don't, you do not. I fail to see how that is a poorly designed UI. Are you arguing that the word "Sell" is ambiguous? The poorly designed part is that the interface to protect an item from being sold is combined with the interface for selling it. That's just asking for trouble. There should be a way to do this before getting to the selling point. The buyback button is really just a workaround for this poor design. Other games have managed to create interfaces for this that are not as risky, this really shouldn't be so problematic to implement.

03-22-2007, 10:08 AM	#70
James_UK Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 66	I would like this implemented as well. Anyone that doesn't like it - don't use it.

03-22-2007, 11:00 AM	#71
Fumbles Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 103	While I have no need for the "buyback" option (I always run thru my salable items and not for sale flag things before selling the rest) I have no problem with it being added as long as it only lasts while you have the sale window open. I am against buyback lingering longer then that as it can be abused. When you open the bank, it should automatically convert coins in your inventory. Why must you drag all coins over to the bank, then drag them back to your inventory? __________________

03-22-2007, 11:06 AM	#72
Ishya Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 132	you can turn off the "doubleclick for selling" off in your game options (if i recall this correctly)

03-22-2007, 12:19 PM	#73
Mildavyn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,301	James_UK wrote: I would like this implemented as well. Anyone that doesn't like it - don't use it. I would like my Troubador to auto-attack for 10,000 damage per swing. I would like this implimented. Anyone who doesn't like it - don't play a troubador.... See how ridiculous that was? Anyways, on to the meat of my post. I'll state right up front that i really don't care if the buy-back option happens (although i WILL be extremely surprised, and a little bit annoyed since it will have meant a REAL issue hasn't been fixed) Now that that is out of the way, here's my take on the issue so far. 1. Your computer lags. You know this. You say you have taken steps to fix or control this issue, yet you still have problems with your mouse double-clicking the sell button? I'm sorry, but i simply dont see this happening. I was running EQ2 on a machine WELL below the recommended settings, i had to run on extreme-low-performance,w ith almost everything turned as low as possible, or off. I never had a problem with selling things. 2. Real life examples that end with the death of someone are not relevant here. If clicking that sell button would send an electric charge or spear through your chair and IT WOULD KILL YOU! then your examples will be relevant. Until you play EQ2 in an electric chair... 3. Actions DO have consequences. If you stick a knife into a toaster, you are going to be shocked. If you put your fingers into a fire, you will get hurt. If you put a valuable item in the 'cheap' pile at a garage sale and someone buys it, you aint getting it back for 1 dollar. We already have stupid laws(you almost have to be mentally [Removed for Content] to believe some of our laws are necessary) Perhaps this is just another part of society that people need to be 'protected' from. Also perhaps if people had to take responsibility for their own actions then we wouldn't need all the signs and BS that comes from people trying to protect themselves from other people's stupidity. Its not my fault you're stupid, why should i pay for your mistake? 4. Lets ditch all the confirmation buttons please, if i didn't want to sell it, why the heck would i have clicked the button? If i didn't want to buy 100 tuber strands at 4g each, why would i have set the slider there and clicked 'buy'? I will say the option to attune your gear when you equip it is good. It used to be that you had to right-click every single item and attune it, THEN equip it. Now you equip everything and just click all the attune button. Love it. 5. I really don't care one way or the other, give them their buy-back option, charge them atleast 10x the sell price and be done with it. __________________ Paikis, Troubador Ashk, Guardian Sslyth, Necromancer Mirbolt, Shadowknight Mildayvin, Assasin Verminius, Defiler

03-22-2007, 12:49 PM	#74
Korpo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,141	Dense@Unrest wrote: The poorly designed part is that the interface to protect an item from being sold is combined with the interface for selling it. That's just asking for trouble. There should be a way to do this before getting to the selling point. The buyback button is really just a workaround for this poor design. Other games have managed to create interfaces for this that are not as risky, this really shouldn't be so problematic to implement. A feature to be able to set the "Not for sale" tag outside of the "Sell" interface is drastically different from a buyback feature: Setting the NFS tag is a proactive way to prevent the sale of something, and demonstrates someone taking action to protect something, it shows that they are being responsible. A buyback feature is a reactive way to get something back after you make a mistake, it shows that you were irresponsible in the first place, and want someone to provide a method for you to continue to be irresponsible. Having the two interfaces combined is less than ideal, but it's not "asking for trouble". The NFS checkbox doesn't look anything like the Sell button, it's not even that close to it within the interface. If your computer is sooooooooo laggy, or your mouse sooooooooo sticky that you have problems accidentally clicking Sell instead of checking NFS, you need to upgrade or clean your mouse. The distance between the Sell button and the NFS checkbox is probably about the same distance as between hotbar key 1 and hotbar key 3, yet nobody seems to complain that their mouse lags and sticks when they try to cast spells, or that they accidentally clicked the wrong hotbar button, or that they want an "Are you sure you want to cast Ice Comet?" prompt. __________________

03-22-2007, 12:53 PM	#75
Korpo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,141	Paikis@Venekor wrote: 1. Your computer lags. You know this. You say you have taken steps to fix or control this issue, yet you still have problems with your mouse double-clicking the sell button? I'm sorry, but i simply dont see this happening. I was running EQ2 on a machine WELL below the recommended settings, i had to run on extreme-low-performance,w ith almost everything turned as low as possible, or off. I never had a problem with selling things. I've raided on an IBM T42 laptop. Centrino 1.6Ghz or so, 1Gb RAM, onboard ATI graphics, and using my cell phone tethered as an Internet connection. It wasn't great, but I didn't lag enough to "accidentally" sell things. Then again, I look before I click. The times that I have accidentally sold things, I chalked it up as a cheap reminder to be more careful next time. __________________

03-22-2007, 12:58 PM	#76
Korpo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,141	Darnicus@Kithicor wrote: When you open the bank, it should automatically convert coins in your inventory. Why must you drag all coins over to the bank, then drag them back to your inventory? Amen my brother. As a neat trick though, you can find a mailbox, start a new mail, send a huge pile of coin, then cancel the mail. It will be returned to you in larger denominations. You just have to make sure that if you have 10p 230g 450s 670c on you, that you send a mail for 12p or so. If you send it for 10p, it won't do the conversion. __________________

03-22-2007, 01:07 PM	#77
LadyAnnaAnna Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 41	EQ1 had buyback, though it wasn't called that. Ever notice in EQ1 how when you sold something to the vendor, it appeared in his window for selling (albeit at more than you sold it for?) It is that functionality, my dear forum goers, that lead to the wonderful pastime that is vendor mining. EQ2 doesn't have that at all. Once something is gone... it's -gone-. It would be a bit forgiving to implement something, and as long as they don't go crazy with it, I don't think it would make the game "EZ" as so many seem to fear.

03-22-2007, 01:20 PM	#78
Korpo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,141	LadyAnnaAnna wrote: I don't think it would make the game "EZ" as so many seem to fear. Funny thing is, nobody arguing against a buyback feature has said that it would make the game easier. __________________

03-22-2007, 01:27 PM	#79
Korpo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,141	Freddy101 wrote: Or instead of pretending were in a fantasy book making stuff up they could just do what they did in eq1 or any number of the other 7 mmo's i've seen with this feature that didn't have to fall into a nasty repetitive loop to ad infinitum. For examples of how this game's devs don't practice moderation once they start down a path, compare the death penalty when the game came out vs. the death penalty now. __________________

03-22-2007, 02:37 PM	#80
Ishya Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 132	LadyAnnaAnna wrote: EQ1 had buyback, though it wasn't called that. Ever notice in EQ1 how when you sold something to the vendor, it appeared in his window for selling (albeit at more than you sold it for?) It is that functionality, my dear forum goers, that lead to the wonderful pastime that is vendor mining. EQ2 doesn't have that at all. Once something is gone... it's -gone-. It would be a bit forgiving to implement something, and as long as they don't go crazy with it, I don't think it would make the game "EZ" as so many seem to fear. eq1 didnt have a buyback, what happened was the vendor had a set amount of slots if some were empty they got filled up with what you sold to that merchant. but once the slots all were filled up the stuff you sold to the merchant dissapeared too, (unless you bought a sold thing (from another player who sold to that merchant) and freed slots) and it only resetted at a server reset, so after 5-10 players sold to that merchant it didnt had any free slots left

03-22-2007, 02:46 PM	#81
Allisia Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 355	EQ1 merchants kept up with everything they were sold, but you couldn't always see them in the display. They only showed a certain number of items (55 or something like that). Sometimes you have to "seed" the merchant to see if he had what you wanted. This was known as merchant farming. EQ1 didn't have a buy back feature because merchants in EQ1 kept up with everything they bought, at least until the servers went down. __________________

03-22-2007, 03:54 PM	#82
Scald Lord Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 93	Paikis@Venekor wrote: James_UK wrote: I would like this implemented as well. Anyone that doesn't like it - don't use it. I would like my Troubador to auto-attack for 10,000 damage per swing. I would like this implimented. Anyone who doesn't like it - don't play a troubador.... See how ridiculous that was? Anyways, on to the meat of my post. I'll state right up front that i really don't care if the buy-back option happens (although i WILL be extremely surprised, and a little bit annoyed since it will have meant a REAL issue hasn't been fixed) Now that that is out of the way, here's my take on the issue so far. 1. Your computer lags. You know this. You say you have taken steps to fix or control this issue, yet you still have problems with your mouse double-clicking the sell button? I'm sorry, but i simply dont see this happening. I was running EQ2 on a machine WELL below the recommended settings, i had to run on extreme-low-performance,w ith almost everything turned as low as possible, or off. I never had a problem with selling things. 2. Real life examples that end with the death of someone are not relevant here. If clicking that sell button would send an electric charge or spear through your chair and IT WOULD KILL YOU! then your examples will be relevant. Until you play EQ2 in an electric chair... 3. Actions DO have consequences. If you stick a knife into a toaster, you are going to be shocked. If you put your fingers into a fire, you will get hurt. If you put a valuable item in the 'cheap' pile at a garage sale and someone buys it, you aint getting it back for 1 dollar. We already have stupid laws(you almost have to be mentally [I cannot control my vocabulary] to believe some of our laws are necessary) Perhaps this is just another part of society that people need to be 'protected' from. Also perhaps if people had to take responsibility for their own actions then we wouldn't need all the signs and BS that comes from people trying to protect themselves from other people's stupidity. Its not my fault you're stupid, why should i pay for your mistake? 4. Lets ditch all the confirmation buttons please, if i didn't want to sell it, why the heck would i have clicked the button? If i didn't want to buy 100 tuber strands at 4g each, why would i have set the slider there and clicked 'buy'? I will say the option to attune your gear when you equip it is good. It used to be that you had to right-click every single item and attune it, THEN equip it. Now you equip everything and just click all the attune button. Love it. 5. I really don't care one way or the other, give them their buy-back option, charge them atleast 10x the sell price and be done with it. You must have saved your mother a ton of money, being that she could buy those pencils that didn't have erasers. Oh, btw, what do you do with that extra space on your keyboard where the backspace key normally goes?

03-22-2007, 05:02 PM	#83
ratman22 Lord Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 51	Paikis@Venekor wrote: James_UK wrote: I would like this implemented as well. Anyone that doesn't like it - don't use it. I would like my Troubador to auto-attack for 10,000 damage per swing. I would like this implimented. Anyone who doesn't like it - don't play a troubador.... See how ridiculous that was? Anyways, on to the meat of my post. I'll state right up front that i really don't care if the buy-back option happens (although i WILL be extremely surprised, and a little bit annoyed since it will have meant a REAL issue hasn't been fixed) Now that that is out of the way, here's my take on the issue so far. 1. Your computer lags. You know this. You say you have taken steps to fix or control this issue, yet you still have problems with your mouse double-clicking the sell button? I'm sorry, but i simply dont see this happening. I was running EQ2 on a machine WELL below the recommended settings, i had to run on extreme-low-performance,w ith almost everything turned as low as possible, or off. I never had a problem with selling things. 2. Real life examples that end with the death of someone are not relevant here. If clicking that sell button would send an electric charge or spear through your chair and IT WOULD KILL YOU! then your examples will be relevant. Until you play EQ2 in an electric chair... 3. Actions DO have consequences. If you stick a knife into a toaster, you are going to be shocked. If you put your fingers into a fire, you will get hurt. If you put a valuable item in the 'cheap' pile at a garage sale and someone buys it, you aint getting it back for 1 dollar. We already have stupid laws(you almost have to be mentally [I cannot control my vocabulary] to believe some of our laws are necessary) Perhaps this is just another part of society that people need to be 'protected' from. Also perhaps if people had to take responsibility for their own actions then we wouldn't need all the signs and BS that comes from people trying to protect themselves from other people's stupidity. Its not my fault you're stupid, why should i pay for your mistake? 4. Lets ditch all the confirmation buttons please, if i didn't want to sell it, why the heck would i have clicked the button? If i didn't want to buy 100 tuber strands at 4g each, why would i have set the slider there and clicked 'buy'? I will say the option to attune your gear when you equip it is good. It used to be that you had to right-click every single item and attune it, THEN equip it. Now you equip everything and just click all the attune button. Love it. 5. I really don't care one way or the other, give them their buy-back option, charge them atleast 10x the sell price and be done with it. Man, I'd hate to see how long of a reply you'll type about something you DO care about.

03-22-2007, 05:10 PM	#84
liveja General Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends Posts: 4,793	Dense@Unrest wrote: Man, I'd hate to see how long of a reply you'll type about something you DO care about. To both you, & the poster above you: is there any chance you guys could learn to NOT quote the entire lengthy post, if all you've got to say in response is a cheap little one-liner? Thanx, in advance. __________________

03-22-2007, 06:22 PM	#85
ratman22 Lord Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 51	livejazz wrote: To both you, & the poster above you: is there any chance you guys could learn to NOT quote the entire lengthy post, if all you've got to say in response is a cheap little one-liner? Thanx, in advance. I generally agree and don't do that, but in this case the length of the quoted reply was my point.

03-22-2007, 07:58 PM	#86
MacKay Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 16	Korpo wrote: Paikis@Venekor wrote: 1. Your computer lags. You know this. You say you have taken steps to fix or control this issue, yet you still have problems with your mouse double-clicking the sell button? I'm sorry, but i simply dont see this happening. I was running EQ2 on a machine WELL below the recommended settings, i had to run on extreme-low-performance,w ith almost everything turned as low as possible, or off. I never had a problem with selling things. I've raided on an IBM T42 laptop. Centrino 1.6Ghz or so, 1Gb RAM, onboard ATI graphics, and using my cell phone tethered as an Internet connection. It wasn't great, but I didn't lag enough to "accidentally" sell things. Then again, I look before I click. The times that I have accidentally sold things, I chalked it up as a cheap reminder to be more careful next time. I'm amused by both of these comments automatically assuming it's the operator, not the ui, not the lag, not the computer, not the connection, not the video and memory intensity of the activities around the merchant. Nothing but the operator. Possibly, just possibly, your computers, your lag, your whatever is not the same as that of everyone else. Possibly even, not everything that can happen in game has happened to you. Possibly, people (in this case, me) are being very careful, don't have doubleclick to sell implemented, and still have troubles with the merchant. It's even possible that the people whom you are implying are careless or even incompetent, aren't. As it happens, I look before I click. Every time. You see, the first time it happened to me, I learned to be careful. Amazing, that other people can learn to be careful, can be careful, and yet they can have problems. Amazing. I'm for the button. Not for any of the other silly examples of "If we have a button, what next?!?!" Just the button. Sorry if that idea offends so much. __________________ MacKay Player of dozens of characters that no-one has ever heard of since 1999

03-23-2007, 05:23 AM	#87
James_UK Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 66	Paikis@Venekor wrote: James_UK wrote: I would like this implemented as well. Anyone that doesn't like it - don't use it. I would like my Troubador to auto-attack for 10,000 damage per swing. I would like this implimented. Anyone who doesn't like it - don't play a troubador.... See how ridiculous that was? ^^ Straw man

03-23-2007, 05:49 AM	#88
Chirpaa Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Alehouse Crusaders Rank: High Lady Master Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 177	I'd like a buy back option for when I do a oopsie, add me to the list of "for" I'm against bells and whatnot for Kelethin to BBM travel though, sorry guys, I'm not on your "pro-convenience" side for everything. Oh, and I want the dance animation changed for my human toons so they do the Macarena and for my wood elf so they earn the wood portion of their name. >.>

03-23-2007, 05:23 PM	#89
Korpo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,141	MacKay wrote: I'm amused by both of these comments automatically assuming it's the operator, not the ui, not the lag, not the computer, not the connection, not the video and memory intensity of the activities around the merchant. Nothing but the operator. ... I'm for the button. Not for any of the other silly examples of "If we have a button, what next?!?!" Just the button. Sorry if that idea offends so much. Which is the point of the post; to highlight the fact that even in a horrible worst case scenerio, there's not enough lag in the world to make someone's mouse click an inch away from where they intended. What makes your "I'm for the button" argument any more valid than the next guy's argument, you know, the one that says he wants an "Are you sure you want to logout?" prompt? Once granted a measure of protection from your own carelessness, who are you to deny the next guy who wants two measures of protection? Or three? Or eighteen? __________________

03-23-2007, 07:16 PM	#90
LadyAnnaAnna Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 41	Korpo wrote: LadyAnnaAnna wrote: I don't think it would make the game "EZ" as so many seem to fear. Funny thing is, nobody arguing against a buyback feature has said that it would make the game easier. Actually they have. Read the first page of the thread again.