whats best aas in both trees to be the best healer warden can be

laawintown · 03-17-2007, 10:16 AM

i read all these post and dont see any one on just being the best healer a warden can be i dont care about any thing else i just want to be the best healer. Whats the best way to go in both trees to be the best warden healer i can be? right now im lvl 28 and have 13 aas so far

Tricit2 · 03-17-2007, 04:18 PM

For PVP, I also have a question. Does the 75% critical chance make up for the significant amount of dph lost in the nukes? Also, the fact that 8points per rank of str as opposed to 5 points per rank in int, does that put melee over the top in pvp?

Reavyn · 03-17-2007, 07:08 PM

if all your looking at is the healing aspects of a warden, then you have to ask yourself, what aas actually improve heals. in the druid tree, there are 3;

Natral Boon,strenght line, causes you to proc heals off of melee attack, it maxes at 16% chance, aka free heals

Wild Regeneration, agility line, reduces the time between tics of your regen spells, it maxes at 1.5 secs between tics, aka faster healing

Seren Focus, stamina line, heal crit increase, maxes at 15.6%, aka bigger heals

unfortunatly, you cant get all 3 maxed out, but you can spec to have all 3, the usefulness of them is really determaned by your play style. but imo heal crits are a must for any healer.

on the warden tree, its a bit moree sketchy. the only things that actually increases the affectiveness of any of your heals directly are enchanced regenerative spores (line starts at lvl 35) and enhanced protective grove (you get this one at 58.) the spores improve how often they proc, and the grove reduces the time between casts. enh:spirit of the bat is probably, imo, the only thing in the warden tree that is 100% useful to any warden, no matter what their playstyle(you get this spell at lvl 35 as well)

the good thing i can say about the warden tree, is you can use it to give yourself some extra flavor, or to customize your own personal play style, and that might help you figure out what you want to take on the druid line.

if you like to get in there and swing at the mob, then by all means, go for the combat arts, and then take the str line on the druid tree, to give yourself the heal procs, and add a bit of dps to what you bring. if you like to stand back a bit more, and maybe do a bit of croud control, you can go with the roots, and agl line, get the faster regens, and a limited mezz, and some very decent roots(as long as your not fighting epics.) and i know, the cure line was horribly nerfed, but if you dont like the other stuff in the warden tree, if your not concerned with dps or utitly, the cures might be for you. a little extra mit/resists never hurts, even if it is just for 3 hits.

id say the ehn save from death stuff was useful, if anyone could actually show me that it had saved a group/raid from a wipe. but in my own expirience, and from what ive read on these forums, everyone elses, it always seems to be a too little, to late sinario (dont pvp so i dont really know about its usefulness there)

Tricit2 · 03-18-2007, 04:22 AM

Actually, I plan to go down both the AGI and STR line. That just seems like supreme warden pvp to me...

Barand · 03-18-2007, 01:24 PM

Being the best healer means you will have to focus on something else than healing. Standing away and spamming heal will never make you the best healer

Tricit2 · 03-18-2007, 03:01 PM

Here, I'll give you the list of what I plan to put points in. Not in any particular order, because my order of it includes respeccing more than once to get the best out of it at all levels for PvP.

Warden Tree:

Wardens- 5 Fire Strike, 5 Cold Strike, 5 Cold Slice, 5 Whirl of Frost, 5 Protector of the Forest, 1 Force of Nature

Movement- 5 Root, 5 Spirit of the Wolf, 5 Undergrowth, 3 Snare, 5 Willow, 1 Nature Walk

Now this is very self-explainatory. No one is getting away from me and no one will ever catch me. Sure, you may snare me, but I will eventually just run off at 50% speed as a silvani Fae. You'll be very lucky to get me unless I engaged, in which case you're probably the one going down. Notice, Protector of the Forest. This is for the sole purpose of becoming competitive with clerics.

Druid Tree:

1 Shapeshift:

Strength- 8 Naturalist's Strength, 8 Nature Blade, 8 Wild Ferocity, 8 Natural Boon, 2 Primordial Strike

Agility- 8 Animalist's Agility

Wisdom- 7 Hierphant's Wisdom

64 Strength, what can I say? That massive a bonus is too much for a warden to pass up. My DPS will be awesome. 8 Nature Blade, I don't care about any of the other lines. Frankly, in PvP, they blow big butt. 4 more points into Nature Blade, more DPS. I can already heal extremely well. 8 Wild Ferocity, every warden knows why we put so much into this! Same goes for 8 Natural Boon. Primordial Strike will be an extra Combat Ability between strikes to put the annoying clerics out of their missery (I hate Inquisitors).

56 Agility. That's a lot of avoidance at any level. With + meaning equal priority, my stats I am looking for overall will go in this priority: Wisdom + Strength > Agility > Stamina. What do you think? I only place just enough stamina for dealing with the largest amount of one hit damage I could possibly take, from there, I increase everything else except intelligence, which is why it's so low on the priority. Well, maybe not so much stamina as to mitigate any instant death, but enough to have a good option of who I want to go in and take out. The rare instances, I will just run away from unless I am in a group.

7 Wisdom, the remainder of my points. The only reason I put 8 into agility and 7 into wisdom is because of the massive decrease in points per point on the wisdom line. 7 agility > 4 wisdom, in my opinion.

Obviously, this isn't a primary healer raid setup, but it can be used very well in PvP server raids, none the less.

You can point out what you like and don't like, if you want. It will not change what I am going to do, though.

tiredang · 03-19-2007, 12:45 PM

I have seen save from death prevent many wipes. Sometimes a mob just gets a bunch of lucky hits, I pop save from death then go back to healing; if the tank dies he will at least have an additional second to have another heal land, a regen tick, whatever -- you no longer have that, "oh no, my heal landed an instant too late" thing happen. That said, I don't have the AA to go with it, but it is far from a useless spell.

Oakum · 03-19-2007, 01:47 PM

tiredangel wrote:

I have seen save from death prevent many wipes. Sometimes a mob just gets a bunch of lucky hits, I pop save from death then go back to healing; if the tank dies he will at least have an additional second to have another heal land, a regen tick, whatever -- you no longer have that, "oh no, my heal landed an instant too late" thing happen. That said, I don't have the AA to go with it, but it is far from a useless spell.

Hmm, in my experience, any mob or mobs that get lucky hits are actually enought to kill the tank will hit the tank again for enough hp to rekill the tank immediately anyway due to bad pull or mob strenght or tank gear level. Not saying it never works for me, I do cast and hope that if the raid tank gets unlucky enough to die on the pull the other 4 or 5 healers will have their heals land before the next hit. Of course that never happens.

Maybe not useless. Just not useful enough to worry about casting unless emergancy heals are down and the reason the tank is dying is the healers not casting heals in time due to inattention. Cast it and pray but dont count on it at all.

tiredang · 03-19-2007, 02:01 PM

Hmm, in my experience, any mob or mobs that get lucky hits are actually enought to kill the tank will hit the tank again for enough hp to rekill the tank immediately anyway due to bad pull or mob strenght or tank gear level. Not saying it never works for me, I do cast and hope that if the raid tank gets unlucky enough to die on the pull the other 4 or 5 healers will have their heals land before the next hit. Of course that never happens.

Hmmmm, our MT does have good gear, but even leveling up, I've seen it work many times. I don't use it on the pull though -- but if I see his health dropping, I pop it. The group one also saved our coercer more than once. But in group situations I learned how useful it was when I started helping a berzerker friend level up. His gear was not good, and there were times he would die not realizing my save from death had saved him and he would annouce that he would die in 30 seconds (or whatever) because he had delayed death. The first few times he was confused when he didn't die. It's a reliable spell, not a miracle spell, it can't replace healing at all -- but it is a very useful tool when used correctly.

Reavyn · 03-19-2007, 05:02 PM

lol, sometimes i like to dream, but i do kinda wish they had something like a 2 or 3 second threat priority reducer on it as well. not more than 1 position or so. enough time for some other heal to land, and only temporary, so the tank doesnt have to fight too much to get agro back.

Skivley101 · 03-19-2007, 05:09 PM

Reavyn@Nektulos wrote:

lol, sometimes i like to dream, but i do kinda wish they had something like a 2 or 3 second threat priority reducer on it as well. not more than 1 position or so. enough time for some other heal to land, and only temporary, so the tank doesnt have to fight too much to get agro back.

how bout a stun instead of threat priority .... you know ... if were dreamin

Skivley101 · 03-19-2007, 05:17 PM

or they could make it a double edged sword and give it a mem wipe ..... on the single ...but then mabe threat priority on the group ....

LOL ya that'd be fuckin awesome SMILEY

Oakum · 03-19-2007, 05:54 PM

The other post have answered for the aa's that help healing but I just wanted to add this.

No healer is "pure healer". All classes do other things that assist the group/raid succeed. Whether that be, cures, buffs and debuffs like cleric and shaman, or dps like druids although wardens are not as close to fury's as we should be in that department.

Buffs help the tank/group survive the big hits, avoid damage, and do more damage faster.

Debuffs help the dps kill the mob faster and the tank do more damage to build up more aggro.

DPS helps kill faster. Wardens are not nearly as close to Fury's as we should be even with going full melee but thats a different topic and will probably never be fixed.

We only have one heat/cold debuff and our buffs are nothing to get excited over compared to the other healers.

We can out heal other healers if its required, even spec'ed for CA I can top the heal parse in the MT group on a long fight where the MT is actually taking more damage then the wards and reactives can soak up. Damage being soaked up in this order. Wards, Reactives, Regens. The shaman and the cleric will always get their heal in before our regen hits it if there is any damage left to heal and DH's from other healers dont bring the tank to full health first.

Unless you are the MT group shaman or cleric or the only healer in a tough zone for a group, you will have time to help the group out in other ways besides healing. That is why I and others recommend the CA line from EoF even besides the heal proc.

But with that said I would also say to do bat, spores, and wolf form (mit to help survive trauma type aoe's and mob attacks) first in EoF AA's then the AOE nuke for when you kill nonlinked groups of mobs. Put your points where ever else you want them and concentrate on nuking for your damage to help the group/raid until you get enough points built up for the 75 percent crit AA. Respec to go full CA with exception of the DOT. With the nuke dot/debuff lasting longer it keeps the mob debuffed for heat/cold longer the the CA version. As you go along too, keep an eye out for gear with Wis/STR so that you will have it to take place of the Wis/Int druid gear that is basically aimed largely at Fury's now.

A good healer uses ALL their abilities to help their group or raid and doesn't just sit around and heal only unless they are healing so much that is all they have time to do. That will change though as your group or raid gets geared up. You will have more and more free time to help out. Just be aware of AOE's from raid mobs/named and make sure you have the resist gear/potions for it if possible if meleeing.

Rangequest · 03-20-2007, 01:27 AM

WIS/INT gear largely aimed at furies now? These types of statements are wildly misleading to people - Sacred Gove is WIS/INT not STR/WIS - and my best guess is that that set just might be aimed at wardens...

All set offensive bonuses are to spells not CAs.

Also if CA was to be fully realized there should be a choice for an alternative CA enemy mastery.

Heck the best druid blade in the game is for furies and wardens are excluded - and good luck getting warden usable blades to even be available unless every fighter the guild has ever known has them first.

The only way you are going to get STR on the best warden armor in the game is through adornments.

Where has any developer ever said that wardens are being steered towards melee?

Rangequest · 03-20-2007, 01:40 AM

To the OP the best healer a warden can be is healing through to the completion of Emerald Halls. What is the most benefit you can bring to that objective? - AGI to AOE protect & STA lines (extra in symbol debuff not anti stun) in KOS. Movement to Nature's Walk & Cures in EOF with spare towards Spirit of Bat.

That set up will allow you to bring the maximum contribution the class can bring to the highest point in the game.

However before you get there you will likely go through 5 different identity crisises. That is an end game set up - before getting there you can make higher contributions through the various means others discussed.

Fromingo · 03-20-2007, 03:36 PM

Tricit2 wrote:

Wardens- 5 Fire Strike, 5 Cold Strike, 5 Cold Slice, 5 Whirl of Frost, 5 Protector of the Forest, 1 Force of Nature
Movement- 5 Root, 5 Spirit of the Wolf, 5 Undergrowth, 3 Snare, 5 Willow, 1 Nature Walk
Druid Tree:
1 Shapeshift:
Strength- 8 Naturalist's Strength, 8 Nature Blade, 8 Wild Ferocity, 8 Natural Boon, 2 Primordial Strike
Agility- 8 Animalist's Agility
Wisdom- 7 Hierphant's Wisdom

I like the warden set up for PvP however for Druids I'd probably do...

1 Shapeshift:

Strength- 5 Naturalist's Strength, 4 Nature Blade, 8 Wild Ferocity, 8 Natural Boon, 2 Primordial Strike

Stamina- 4 Stam, 4 symbol, 4 knowledge, 8 Focus, 2 Serenity

I'd rather have the heal crits and the option to be immune to stun during those critical PvP fights.

tiredang · 03-20-2007, 03:42 PM

Rangequest wrote:

To the OP the best healer a warden can be is healing through to the completion of Emerald Halls. What is the most benefit you can bring to that objective? - AGI to AOE protect & STA lines (extra in symbol debuff not anti stun) in KOS. Movement to Nature's Walk & Cures in EOF with spare towards Spirit of Bat.
That set up will allow you to bring the maximum contribution the class can bring to the highest point in the game.
However before you get there you will likely go through 5 different identity crisises. That is an end game set up - before getting there you can make higher contributions through the various means others discussed.

You are assuming that this person is PvE. Being the best PvP healer requires a bit of a different AA setup (yes my guild does do EH but I would be surprised if any of the druids had this AA setup). Best PvP would be maximizing damage while focusing on healing, either through the strength line and CAs, or the Int line and either CAs or Cures (the final one in the cure line is awesome). I do agree that the Sta line is good, but you want the anti-stun in PvP and the final one in the line, and yes, Nature's Walk is pretty much required.

Tricit2 · 03-21-2007, 08:48 PM

I watched a 49 melee warden take out a 58 casting (duh) fury....It was insane.

Skivley101 · 03-21-2007, 09:46 PM

Wow!!! mustve really been duh fury .... but you do find more subpar furies than wardens...Law of averages... LOL

Personally Ive never beat a fury or brigand dueling ....But maybe your talkin pvp (bit diff)

Or maybe its howmany ive dueled too ...only dueled fury/brigand my guild and one other uber fury from NPU SMILEY ....( LOL i saw how good his gear was after...Duh@#$!)

Every other class ive been able to beat easily or figure them out eventually.

Never lost to another warden though ... SMILEY

Nexiia · 03-29-2007, 12:52 AM

Rangequest wrote:

To the OP the best healer a warden can be is healing through to the completion of Emerald Halls. What is the most benefit you can bring to that objective? - AGI to AOE protect & STA lines (extra in symbol debuff not anti stun) in KOS. Movement to Nature's Walk & Cures in EOF with spare towards Spirit of Bat.
That set up will allow you to bring the maximum contribution the class can bring to the highest point in the game.
However before you get there you will likely go through 5 different identity crisises. That is an end game set up - before getting there you can make higher contributions through the various means others discussed.

Been a while since i've posted or read these boards, but I don't understand how people come up with stuff like this then try to make it sound like fact. Your whole theory is based around EH being the pinnacle of what a healer is, Where you got that, I have no idea. It's far too easy of a zone to judge by...Thats like saying Labs was what makes a healer in KoS... Take a mob like Mayong Mistmoore [Contestable] or one of the Avatars for an example of what you need to do as a healer. First off A) there is no "BEST" AA line for end game PvE wardens. You HAVE options, to suit your raid/play style. I don't use the setup posted by this person who said its "the end game setup", and our guild has cleared all of EoF. For the most part I was the only warden on each of the raids, so yeah...saying that there is one "end game setup" that every warden finally turns to is complete B.S.

[you dont have to read this little rant part if you dont want it's not too important] KoS : Agi - you obtain Charm Animal and Calm Animal, which do nothing for raid mobs and to be honest there aren't a whole lot of animals you can charm, since you can not charm things like unicorns etc.

This line provides an AoE immunity, which is something that A) Bards have, B) can be purchased via city merchant, C) can be found on items such as remnant of the chime. There are many other things that provide AoE immunity, things that do not require a 3 meter range. The AoE immunity has its scenarios where it would be usefull, but its hardly something an "end game" player would need 100%

Wild Regen provides the warden with faster ticks of their regens, this doesnt make a statistically large change on parses, it may however assist you if you find your tank spiking uncontrollably in hp as your ticks will get in faster , thus giving them more hp.

Sta - youll get your heal crits, your beneficial debuff to remove damage sheilds etc, a stun removal/prevention for 30 seconds on a relatively long recast, and a stun immunity chance on heals for a very short duration.

Str - youll get alot of melee and str based skills, an attack that makes your auto attack speed increase for a period of time, which is helpful if you progress through the line and take Natural Boon, which has a chance to proc group heals on succesful melee attack, you also may get the double attack which will allow you (at max) 40% chance to melee twice on succesful melee. This progresses into primordial strike which is a fast paced attack which will allow you to contain a smoother flow to your melee combat arts if you do choose to take the Echoes of Faydwer combat art section (Strongly reccomended if you decide on this line from KoS) Downside of this is you have to doge aoe's if you want to get that extra healing boost , a positive is that if you get enough haste this can put out a nice % of additional healing, as well as letting you do damage while healing rather than them being two seperate entities. Getting the haste with a power aug on your weapon can do some insane mana regen for you as well SMILEY

Int - will help you to land hostile spells on targets of higher levels, as well as gives you spell crits and the chance to strike any target in your immediate area of effect when you cast a beneficial spell (this is neat but can be dangerous if used incorrectly)

Wis - this is one of the only lines i dont see much point to as a raiding warden, sure there are some uses to it, like rebirth when you die and dont want to have to take your raid all the way back to the annoying boss of a zone from the beginning again, or when you need a quick revive near a contestable mob or something, I guess. The extra root is neat for pvp and the decreased hate gain could be ...ok..ish.. but overall as a raider i never could find a specific use to this line over the others we were given other than what i mentioned.

[k all done ranting on kos lines]

So there is my little personal sum up of the KoS lines, now , if you can honestly say to me that the Agi/Sta combo is the BEST possible situation for a raiding warden then you obviously have no clue about how raiding works. Someone elses raid may not have the same issues, luxuries, numbers, classes as yours. Which is why it is not possible to say it is "The Best". You may find that it is the best for YOUR raid but it doesn't mean it is the best for the OP's raids/playstyle and it is definately not a fact that it is the best to clear Emerald Halls.

K , onto EoF lines, you say Nature's Walk and Cures in EoF and Spirit of the Bat allow a warden to be the "Best" they can be...so...let me ask you this... out of the whole entire line of Movement, how much of it works on raid mobs? Is Emerald Halls a raid Zone?. The Reuse on our Deaggro [which no longer roots epics] can be useful if you're pulling aggro, which shouldnt happen in the specific case that the quoted post describes. The group root will not effect an epic target, the snare will not effect an epic target, the single target root will not effect an epic target, and Nature Walk does not work on a large majority of mobs, such as the end boss, and the sub boss of the final area and more. Not being rooted can be nice, but the fact that you can cure a root and not a whole lot of roots are uncurable is a neat little addition to making the skill not as "end game required" as the quoted poster made it seem. Cures, okay. for -- 3 -- hits, your target has increased resistability to the said spell, fact of the matter is most of the truly capable raids have resists that are high enough to make the added resistability nearly useless, if they were not 3 hit uses and still were duration based I would tell you these are really worth getting, but in the current state, also not game breaking.

My point rephrased, you have other choices, like the melee CA line to go with the STR line, if not for dps then just to be doing something other than sitting around when your raid is fighting trash or full hp. To regen power or proc debuffs or some of the neat effects you can find on end game items. Could also look into a higher spores chance, quicker Death Prevention Reuse for those rough times when the tank is going down for whatever said reason, double trigger for the nasty times when your tank triggers the Death Prevention spells or when you're grapsing at any extra seconds to pull your raid back up from a failure into a success. So to sum all that huge pile of text up, What makes you the best warden you can be? Being what you like best. Where's the proof ? Right up there... I've always played things a little bit different than what people think is "the best" yet i've been in the raid to kill everything EoF has thrown at us, and been incredibly successful with just playing the class how I like it.

Take my advice, play the class how you like it best and you'll adapt it to make it "The Best" for you.

03-19-2007, 12:45 PM	#7
tiredang General Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 169	I have seen save from death prevent many wipes. Sometimes a mob just gets a bunch of lucky hits, I pop save from death then go back to healing; if the tank dies he will at least have an additional second to have another heal land, a regen tick, whatever -- you no longer have that, "oh no, my heal landed an instant too late" thing happen. That said, I don't have the AA to go with it, but it is far from a useless spell. __________________ Healing butt and taking names! Angelyc Sadist 21 Defiler/31 Weaponsmith Stacy Sadist 17 Fury/26 Sage Jaided Sadist the Exile 70 Warden/70 Sage

03-19-2007, 01:47 PM	#8
Oakum Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,441	tiredangel wrote: I have seen save from death prevent many wipes. Sometimes a mob just gets a bunch of lucky hits, I pop save from death then go back to healing; if the tank dies he will at least have an additional second to have another heal land, a regen tick, whatever -- you no longer have that, "oh no, my heal landed an instant too late" thing happen. That said, I don't have the AA to go with it, but it is far from a useless spell. Hmm, in my experience, any mob or mobs that get lucky hits are actually enought to kill the tank will hit the tank again for enough hp to rekill the tank immediately anyway due to bad pull or mob strenght or tank gear level. Not saying it never works for me, I do cast and hope that if the raid tank gets unlucky enough to die on the pull the other 4 or 5 healers will have their heals land before the next hit. Of course that never happens. Maybe not useless. Just not useful enough to worry about casting unless emergancy heals are down and the reason the tank is dying is the healers not casting heals in time due to inattention. Cast it and pray but dont count on it at all. __________________

03-19-2007, 02:01 PM	#9
tiredang General Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 169	Hmm, in my experience, any mob or mobs that get lucky hits are actually enought to kill the tank will hit the tank again for enough hp to rekill the tank immediately anyway due to bad pull or mob strenght or tank gear level. Not saying it never works for me, I do cast and hope that if the raid tank gets unlucky enough to die on the pull the other 4 or 5 healers will have their heals land before the next hit. Of course that never happens. Hmmmm, our MT does have good gear, but even leveling up, I've seen it work many times. I don't use it on the pull though -- but if I see his health dropping, I pop it. The group one also saved our coercer more than once. But in group situations I learned how useful it was when I started helping a berzerker friend level up. His gear was not good, and there were times he would die not realizing my save from death had saved him and he would annouce that he would die in 30 seconds (or whatever) because he had delayed death. The first few times he was confused when he didn't die. It's a reliable spell, not a miracle spell, it can't replace healing at all -- but it is a very useful tool when used correctly. __________________ Healing butt and taking names! Angelyc Sadist 21 Defiler/31 Weaponsmith Stacy Sadist 17 Fury/26 Sage Jaided Sadist the Exile 70 Warden/70 Sage

03-19-2007, 05:09 PM	#11
Skivley101 Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: @ the desk Posts: 1,051	Reavyn@Nektulos wrote: lol, sometimes i like to dream, but i do kinda wish they had something like a 2 or 3 second threat priority reducer on it as well. not more than 1 position or so. enough time for some other heal to land, and only temporary, so the tank doesnt have to fight too much to get agro back. how bout a stun instead of threat priority .... you know ... if were dreamin __________________ Barbarian~ LvL 75 Warden ,LvL 75 Provisioner, LvL 101 smak talker

03-19-2007, 05:17 PM	#12
Skivley101 Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: @ the desk Posts: 1,051	or they could make it a double edged sword and give it a mem wipe ..... on the single ...but then mabe threat priority on the group .... LOL ya that'd be fuckin awesome __________________ Barbarian~ LvL 75 Warden ,LvL 75 Provisioner, LvL 101 smak talker

03-17-2007, 10:16 AM	#1
laawintown Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 48	i read all these post and dont see any one on just being the best healer a warden can be i dont care about any thing else i just want to be the best healer. Whats the best way to go in both trees to be the best warden healer i can be? right now im lvl 28 and have 13 aas so far

03-17-2007, 04:18 PM	#2
Tricit2 Defender Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 29	For PVP, I also have a question. Does the 75% critical chance make up for the significant amount of dph lost in the nukes? Also, the fact that 8points per rank of str as opposed to 5 points per rank in int, does that put melee over the top in pvp?

03-17-2007, 07:08 PM	#3
Reavyn Server: Nektulos Guild: Cataclysm Rank: Devout Member Lord Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 7	if all your looking at is the healing aspects of a warden, then you have to ask yourself, what aas actually improve heals. in the druid tree, there are 3; Natral Boon,strenght line, causes you to proc heals off of melee attack, it maxes at 16% chance, aka free heals Wild Regeneration, agility line, reduces the time between tics of your regen spells, it maxes at 1.5 secs between tics, aka faster healing Seren Focus, stamina line, heal crit increase, maxes at 15.6%, aka bigger heals unfortunatly, you cant get all 3 maxed out, but you can spec to have all 3, the usefulness of them is really determaned by your play style. but imo heal crits are a must for any healer. on the warden tree, its a bit moree sketchy. the only things that actually increases the affectiveness of any of your heals directly are enchanced regenerative spores (line starts at lvl 35) and enhanced protective grove (you get this one at 58.) the spores improve how often they proc, and the grove reduces the time between casts. enh:spirit of the bat is probably, imo, the only thing in the warden tree that is 100% useful to any warden, no matter what their playstyle(you get this spell at lvl 35 as well) the good thing i can say about the warden tree, is you can use it to give yourself some extra flavor, or to customize your own personal play style, and that might help you figure out what you want to take on the druid line. if you like to get in there and swing at the mob, then by all means, go for the combat arts, and then take the str line on the druid tree, to give yourself the heal procs, and add a bit of dps to what you bring. if you like to stand back a bit more, and maybe do a bit of croud control, you can go with the roots, and agl line, get the faster regens, and a limited mezz, and some very decent roots(as long as your not fighting epics.) and i know, the cure line was horribly nerfed, but if you dont like the other stuff in the warden tree, if your not concerned with dps or utitly, the cures might be for you. a little extra mit/resists never hurts, even if it is just for 3 hits. id say the ehn save from death stuff was useful, if anyone could actually show me that it had saved a group/raid from a wipe. but in my own expirience, and from what ive read on these forums, everyone elses, it always seems to be a too little, to late sinario (dont pvp so i dont really know about its usefulness there)

03-18-2007, 04:22 AM	#4
Tricit2 Defender Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 29	Actually, I plan to go down both the AGI and STR line. That just seems like supreme warden pvp to me...

03-18-2007, 01:24 PM	#5
Barand General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 358	Being the best healer means you will have to focus on something else than healing. Standing away and spamming heal will never make you the best healer

03-18-2007, 03:01 PM	#6
Tricit2 Defender Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 29	Here, I'll give you the list of what I plan to put points in. Not in any particular order, because my order of it includes respeccing more than once to get the best out of it at all levels for PvP. Warden Tree: Wardens- 5 Fire Strike, 5 Cold Strike, 5 Cold Slice, 5 Whirl of Frost, 5 Protector of the Forest, 1 Force of Nature Movement- 5 Root, 5 Spirit of the Wolf, 5 Undergrowth, 3 Snare, 5 Willow, 1 Nature Walk Now this is very self-explainatory. No one is getting away from me and no one will ever catch me. Sure, you may snare me, but I will eventually just run off at 50% speed as a silvani Fae. You'll be very lucky to get me unless I engaged, in which case you're probably the one going down. Notice, Protector of the Forest. This is for the sole purpose of becoming competitive with clerics. Druid Tree: 1 Shapeshift: Strength- 8 Naturalist's Strength, 8 Nature Blade, 8 Wild Ferocity, 8 Natural Boon, 2 Primordial Strike Agility- 8 Animalist's Agility Wisdom- 7 Hierphant's Wisdom 64 Strength, what can I say? That massive a bonus is too much for a warden to pass up. My DPS will be awesome. 8 Nature Blade, I don't care about any of the other lines. Frankly, in PvP, they blow big butt. 4 more points into Nature Blade, more DPS. I can already heal extremely well. 8 Wild Ferocity, every warden knows why we put so much into this! Same goes for 8 Natural Boon. Primordial Strike will be an extra Combat Ability between strikes to put the annoying clerics out of their missery (I hate Inquisitors). 56 Agility. That's a lot of avoidance at any level. With + meaning equal priority, my stats I am looking for overall will go in this priority: Wisdom + Strength > Agility > Stamina. What do you think? I only place just enough stamina for dealing with the largest amount of one hit damage I could possibly take, from there, I increase everything else except intelligence, which is why it's so low on the priority. Well, maybe not so much stamina as to mitigate any instant death, but enough to have a good option of who I want to go in and take out. The rare instances, I will just run away from unless I am in a group. 7 Wisdom, the remainder of my points. The only reason I put 8 into agility and 7 into wisdom is because of the massive decrease in points per point on the wisdom line. 7 agility > 4 wisdom, in my opinion. Obviously, this isn't a primary healer raid setup, but it can be used very well in PvP server raids, none the less. You can point out what you like and don't like, if you want. It will not change what I am going to do, though.

03-19-2007, 05:02 PM	#10
Reavyn Server: Nektulos Guild: Cataclysm Rank: Devout Member Lord Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 7	lol, sometimes i like to dream, but i do kinda wish they had something like a 2 or 3 second threat priority reducer on it as well. not more than 1 position or so. enough time for some other heal to land, and only temporary, so the tank doesnt have to fight too much to get agro back.

03-19-2007, 05:54 PM	#13
Oakum Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,441	The other post have answered for the aa's that help healing but I just wanted to add this. No healer is "pure healer". All classes do other things that assist the group/raid succeed. Whether that be, cures, buffs and debuffs like cleric and shaman, or dps like druids although wardens are not as close to fury's as we should be in that department. Buffs help the tank/group survive the big hits, avoid damage, and do more damage faster. Debuffs help the dps kill the mob faster and the tank do more damage to build up more aggro. DPS helps kill faster. Wardens are not nearly as close to Fury's as we should be even with going full melee but thats a different topic and will probably never be fixed. We only have one heat/cold debuff and our buffs are nothing to get excited over compared to the other healers. We can out heal other healers if its required, even spec'ed for CA I can top the heal parse in the MT group on a long fight where the MT is actually taking more damage then the wards and reactives can soak up. Damage being soaked up in this order. Wards, Reactives, Regens. The shaman and the cleric will always get their heal in before our regen hits it if there is any damage left to heal and DH's from other healers dont bring the tank to full health first. Unless you are the MT group shaman or cleric or the only healer in a tough zone for a group, you will have time to help the group out in other ways besides healing. That is why I and others recommend the CA line from EoF even besides the heal proc. But with that said I would also say to do bat, spores, and wolf form (mit to help survive trauma type aoe's and mob attacks) first in EoF AA's then the AOE nuke for when you kill nonlinked groups of mobs. Put your points where ever else you want them and concentrate on nuking for your damage to help the group/raid until you get enough points built up for the 75 percent crit AA. Respec to go full CA with exception of the DOT. With the nuke dot/debuff lasting longer it keeps the mob debuffed for heat/cold longer the the CA version. As you go along too, keep an eye out for gear with Wis/STR so that you will have it to take place of the Wis/Int druid gear that is basically aimed largely at Fury's now. A good healer uses ALL their abilities to help their group or raid and doesn't just sit around and heal only unless they are healing so much that is all they have time to do. That will change though as your group or raid gets geared up. You will have more and more free time to help out. Just be aware of AOE's from raid mobs/named and make sure you have the resist gear/potions for it if possible if meleeing. __________________

03-20-2007, 01:27 AM	#14
Rangequest Hero Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 50	WIS/INT gear largely aimed at furies now? These types of statements are wildly misleading to people - Sacred Gove is WIS/INT not STR/WIS - and my best guess is that that set just might be aimed at wardens... All set offensive bonuses are to spells not CAs. Also if CA was to be fully realized there should be a choice for an alternative CA enemy mastery. Heck the best druid blade in the game is for furies and wardens are excluded - and good luck getting warden usable blades to even be available unless every fighter the guild has ever known has them first. The only way you are going to get STR on the best warden armor in the game is through adornments. Where has any developer ever said that wardens are being steered towards melee?

03-20-2007, 01:40 AM	#15
Rangequest Hero Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 50	To the OP the best healer a warden can be is healing through to the completion of Emerald Halls. What is the most benefit you can bring to that objective? - AGI to AOE protect & STA lines (extra in symbol debuff not anti stun) in KOS. Movement to Nature's Walk & Cures in EOF with spare towards Spirit of Bat. That set up will allow you to bring the maximum contribution the class can bring to the highest point in the game. However before you get there you will likely go through 5 different identity crisises. That is an end game set up - before getting there you can make higher contributions through the various means others discussed.

03-20-2007, 03:36 PM	#16
Fromingo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 536	Tricit2 wrote: Wardens- 5 Fire Strike, 5 Cold Strike, 5 Cold Slice, 5 Whirl of Frost, 5 Protector of the Forest, 1 Force of Nature Movement- 5 Root, 5 Spirit of the Wolf, 5 Undergrowth, 3 Snare, 5 Willow, 1 Nature Walk Druid Tree: 1 Shapeshift: Strength- 8 Naturalist's Strength, 8 Nature Blade, 8 Wild Ferocity, 8 Natural Boon, 2 Primordial Strike Agility- 8 Animalist's Agility Wisdom- 7 Hierphant's Wisdom I like the warden set up for PvP however for Druids I'd probably do... 1 Shapeshift: Strength- 5 Naturalist's Strength, 4 Nature Blade, 8 Wild Ferocity, 8 Natural Boon, 2 Primordial Strike Stamina- 4 Stam, 4 symbol, 4 knowledge, 8 Focus, 2 Serenity I'd rather have the heal crits and the option to be immune to stun during those critical PvP fights.

03-20-2007, 03:42 PM	#17
tiredang General Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 169	Rangequest wrote: To the OP the best healer a warden can be is healing through to the completion of Emerald Halls. What is the most benefit you can bring to that objective? - AGI to AOE protect & STA lines (extra in symbol debuff not anti stun) in KOS. Movement to Nature's Walk & Cures in EOF with spare towards Spirit of Bat. That set up will allow you to bring the maximum contribution the class can bring to the highest point in the game. However before you get there you will likely go through 5 different identity crisises. That is an end game set up - before getting there you can make higher contributions through the various means others discussed. You are assuming that this person is PvE. Being the best PvP healer requires a bit of a different AA setup (yes my guild does do EH but I would be surprised if any of the druids had this AA setup). Best PvP would be maximizing damage while focusing on healing, either through the strength line and CAs, or the Int line and either CAs or Cures (the final one in the cure line is awesome). I do agree that the Sta line is good, but you want the anti-stun in PvP and the final one in the line, and yes, Nature's Walk is pretty much required. __________________ Healing butt and taking names! Angelyc Sadist 21 Defiler/31 Weaponsmith Stacy Sadist 17 Fury/26 Sage Jaided Sadist the Exile 70 Warden/70 Sage

03-21-2007, 08:48 PM	#18
Tricit2 Defender Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 29	I watched a 49 melee warden take out a 58 casting (duh) fury....It was insane.

03-21-2007, 09:46 PM	#19
Skivley101 Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: @ the desk Posts: 1,051	Wow!!! mustve really been duh fury .... but you do find more subpar furies than wardens...Law of averages... LOL Personally Ive never beat a fury or brigand dueling ....But maybe your talkin pvp (bit diff) Or maybe its howmany ive dueled too ...only dueled fury/brigand my guild and one other uber fury from NPU ....( LOL i saw how good his gear was after...Duh@#$!) Every other class ive been able to beat easily or figure them out eventually. Never lost to another warden though ... __________________ Barbarian~ LvL 75 Warden ,LvL 75 Provisioner, LvL 101 smak talker

03-29-2007, 12:52 AM	#20
Nexiia Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 102	Rangequest wrote: To the OP the best healer a warden can be is healing through to the completion of Emerald Halls. What is the most benefit you can bring to that objective? - AGI to AOE protect & STA lines (extra in symbol debuff not anti stun) in KOS. Movement to Nature's Walk & Cures in EOF with spare towards Spirit of Bat. That set up will allow you to bring the maximum contribution the class can bring to the highest point in the game. However before you get there you will likely go through 5 different identity crisises. That is an end game set up - before getting there you can make higher contributions through the various means others discussed. Been a while since i've posted or read these boards, but I don't understand how people come up with stuff like this then try to make it sound like fact. Your whole theory is based around EH being the pinnacle of what a healer is, Where you got that, I have no idea. It's far too easy of a zone to judge by...Thats like saying Labs was what makes a healer in KoS... Take a mob like Mayong Mistmoore [Contestable] or one of the Avatars for an example of what you need to do as a healer. First off A) there is no "BEST" AA line for end game PvE wardens. You HAVE options, to suit your raid/play style. I don't use the setup posted by this person who said its "the end game setup", and our guild has cleared all of EoF. For the most part I was the only warden on each of the raids, so yeah...saying that there is one "end game setup" that every warden finally turns to is complete B.S. [you dont have to read this little rant part if you dont want it's not too important] KoS : Agi - you obtain Charm Animal and Calm Animal, which do nothing for raid mobs and to be honest there aren't a whole lot of animals you can charm, since you can not charm things like unicorns etc. This line provides an AoE immunity, which is something that A) Bards have, B) can be purchased via city merchant, C) can be found on items such as remnant of the chime. There are many other things that provide AoE immunity, things that do not require a 3 meter range. The AoE immunity has its scenarios where it would be usefull, but its hardly something an "end game" player would need 100% Wild Regen provides the warden with faster ticks of their regens, this doesnt make a statistically large change on parses, it may however assist you if you find your tank spiking uncontrollably in hp as your ticks will get in faster , thus giving them more hp. Sta - youll get your heal crits, your beneficial debuff to remove damage sheilds etc, a stun removal/prevention for 30 seconds on a relatively long recast, and a stun immunity chance on heals for a very short duration. Str - youll get alot of melee and str based skills, an attack that makes your auto attack speed increase for a period of time, which is helpful if you progress through the line and take Natural Boon, which has a chance to proc group heals on succesful melee attack, you also may get the double attack which will allow you (at max) 40% chance to melee twice on succesful melee. This progresses into primordial strike which is a fast paced attack which will allow you to contain a smoother flow to your melee combat arts if you do choose to take the Echoes of Faydwer combat art section (Strongly reccomended if you decide on this line from KoS) Downside of this is you have to doge aoe's if you want to get that extra healing boost , a positive is that if you get enough haste this can put out a nice % of additional healing, as well as letting you do damage while healing rather than them being two seperate entities. Getting the haste with a power aug on your weapon can do some insane mana regen for you as well Int - will help you to land hostile spells on targets of higher levels, as well as gives you spell crits and the chance to strike any target in your immediate area of effect when you cast a beneficial spell (this is neat but can be dangerous if used incorrectly) Wis - this is one of the only lines i dont see much point to as a raiding warden, sure there are some uses to it, like rebirth when you die and dont want to have to take your raid all the way back to the annoying boss of a zone from the beginning again, or when you need a quick revive near a contestable mob or something, I guess. The extra root is neat for pvp and the decreased hate gain could be ...ok..ish.. but overall as a raider i never could find a specific use to this line over the others we were given other than what i mentioned. [k all done ranting on kos lines] So there is my little personal sum up of the KoS lines, now , if you can honestly say to me that the Agi/Sta combo is the BEST possible situation for a raiding warden then you obviously have no clue about how raiding works. Someone elses raid may not have the same issues, luxuries, numbers, classes as yours. Which is why it is not possible to say it is "The Best". You may find that it is the best for YOUR raid but it doesn't mean it is the best for the OP's raids/playstyle and it is definately not a fact that it is the best to clear Emerald Halls. K , onto EoF lines, you say Nature's Walk and Cures in EoF and Spirit of the Bat allow a warden to be the "Best" they can be...so...let me ask you this... out of the whole entire line of Movement, how much of it works on raid mobs? Is Emerald Halls a raid Zone?. The Reuse on our Deaggro [which no longer roots epics] can be useful if you're pulling aggro, which shouldnt happen in the specific case that the quoted post describes. The group root will not effect an epic target, the snare will not effect an epic target, the single target root will not effect an epic target, and Nature Walk does not work on a large majority of mobs, such as the end boss, and the sub boss of the final area and more. Not being rooted can be nice, but the fact that you can cure a root and not a whole lot of roots are uncurable is a neat little addition to making the skill not as "end game required" as the quoted poster made it seem. Cures, okay. for -- 3 -- hits, your target has increased resistability to the said spell, fact of the matter is most of the truly capable raids have resists that are high enough to make the added resistability nearly useless, if they were not 3 hit uses and still were duration based I would tell you these are really worth getting, but in the current state, also not game breaking. My point rephrased, you have other choices, like the melee CA line to go with the STR line, if not for dps then just to be doing something other than sitting around when your raid is fighting trash or full hp. To regen power or proc debuffs or some of the neat effects you can find on end game items. Could also look into a higher spores chance, quicker Death Prevention Reuse for those rough times when the tank is going down for whatever said reason, double trigger for the nasty times when your tank triggers the Death Prevention spells or when you're grapsing at any extra seconds to pull your raid back up from a failure into a success. So to sum all that huge pile of text up, What makes you the best warden you can be? Being what you like best. Where's the proof ? Right up there... I've always played things a little bit different than what people think is "the best" yet i've been in the raid to kill everything EoF has thrown at us, and been incredibly successful with just playing the class how I like it. Take my advice, play the class how you like it best and you'll adapt it to make it "The Best" for you.