Arch Heal, and paladin healing in general?

ugramu · 02-15-2007, 08:33 PM

Hood good is this heal in the paladin EoF tree? Does it scale as you level or is it always the same? Does it share a timer with any other heal or is it on its own? I got another question aswell, how well can a paladin heal if compared to some other classes that can heal themself? Im playing with my bro, and were playing paladin/wizard atm (we are lvl14). Was hoping to get some replies from ppl who have done the same duo or something similar and hear about their experience, thanks! SMILEY

Karlen · 02-15-2007, 09:06 PM

When you get wards, try to adept III or master them. The ward helps a lot as it prevents you from taking damage. Also make sure to upgrade your taunts and aggro transfer abilities to keep mobs from attacking the wizard. The group armament AA helps increase the protection for the wizard too without hurting your own. I can't speak to the arch heal as I don't have that yet. I have found that a paladin counts as about half of a real healer, which can be sufficient if you are in a small group of 2-3. You can play around with your tactics as well as Paladins have flexibility. With group armament and your ward, you can let the wizard tank in some situations if that is easier than holding aggro from him when he goes full out. Wizards are really good at holding aggro. If he can kill quickly you can keep him alive with wards and heals.

Kocia · 02-16-2007, 02:21 AM

Have your wizard put points in magi shielding, plus your ward and you two are good to go.

Boli32 · 02-16-2007, 03:18 AM

I've played both a healer and a Paladin forced into a healing role, and I can tell you without a doubt... paladins ... arn't healers. The best thing you can say about a paladin's healing power is help to slows incoming damage... but it doesn't stop it, a sudden increse in incoming damage (Add, named, debuff) and you're suddenly in deep water.

Wallzak · 02-16-2007, 04:52 PM

Have it, love it, would recommend it mostly SMILEY

I have gone down the STR line and got the shortened spell ability, and have Heal Crits maxed in the INT line.

I can heal, ward, heal, heal all back to back... saving myself, the groups and raids numerous times.

The only draw back... it's the least efficient of our heals.

Felinol · 02-18-2007, 03:19 PM

Hello, My GF and I play a paly/ranger combo which works great. We are now level 51 fae and leveling steadily. To give you an idea, we can solo even con heroic encounters, but I usually end up very low on mana at the end of the fight. Named mobs have to be about 4 levels under us to be killable. I have and use arch heal and it does scale as you level which is great. I only use this spell when required though as it drains alot of mana. The ward is much more effective in this area and make sure you buy the master 1 or adept 3 version if you can. In order, I use ward, normal single heal, arch heal and the big self heal when required. I speced myself as defensive (block AA) and heal paladin in the eof tree so far and it works great since the ranger can supply the dps that i lack. With aggro transfer she can always go all in with no chance of aggro. I think you will like your combo since it shares some similarity to ours. We like to quest alot, explore and take our time which is by far the most enjoyable way to play EQ2 IMO. Togetu Spirit Shard Collectors 51 Paladin of Unrest

Kocia · 02-18-2007, 05:20 PM

Felinol wrote:

Hello, My GF and I play a paly/ranger combo which works great. We are now level 51 fae and leveling steadily. To give you an idea, we can solo even con heroic encounters, but I usually end up very low on mana at the end of the fight. Named mobs have to be about 4 levels under us to be killable. I have and use arch heal and it does scale as you level which is great. I only use this spell when required though as it drains alot of mana. The ward is much more effective in this area and make sure you buy the master 1 or adept 3 version if you can. In order, I use ward, normal single heal, arch heal and the big self heal when required. I speced myself as defensive (block AA) and heal paladin in the eof tree so far and it works great since the ranger can supply the dps that i lack. With aggro transfer she can always go all in with no chance of aggro. I think you will like your combo since it shares some similarity to ours. We like to quest alot, explore and take our time which is by far the most enjoyable way to play EQ2 IMO. Togetu Spirit Shard Collectors 51 Paladin of Unrest

I think you will find wraths line way more effective in a duo, it will cut down the time and mana drain in your encounters. Defensive spec doesn't provide same bang for the buck and smite evil is all that and then some.

Felinol · 02-18-2007, 11:30 PM

Are you sure of that Kocia? I was always under the impression that my dps were "negligeable" and that it was not realyl worth it to go in the wrath line. Also I'm under the impression that wrath line is even less useful for a group tank since dps is not my role. I did go int line in the crusader tree though. When duoing heroic encounters close to my level, if often have to go in almost full heal/stun mode and thats with the defensive stance and AA line. If I go wrath line I won't be able to wrath at all and healing will be tougher, no? I still have my free respec so maybe I should use it. What do you guys think on this issue?

Kocia · 02-19-2007, 03:00 AM

Felinol wrote:

Are you sure of that Kocia? I was always under the impression that my dps were "negligeable" and that it was not realyl worth it to go in the wrath line. Also I'm under the impression that wrath line is even less useful for a group tank since dps is not my role. I did go int line in the crusader tree though. When duoing heroic encounters close to my level, if often have to go in almost full heal/stun mode and thats with the defensive stance and AA line. If I go wrath line I won't be able to wrath at all and healing will be tougher, no? I still have my free respec so maybe I should use it. What do you guys think on this issue?

Best way to win is to dish out lots of dps. There's nothing negligible about Pally DPS with INT line and Wraths. There's nothing like aggro gained thru mean AOE and smite evil is 0 cost, NON-resistible massive AOE. Wraths line is a must to any Pally, damage is king, damage is good in any situation.

Hero line is good for heavy grouping Pallys or raid MT Pallys and those forgo the heal line, not the Wraths line. Wraths is our best AA tree.

Vulkan_NTooki · 02-19-2007, 06:35 AM

Going Wrath/Heal here.. SMILEY That way I can heal and dps on raids.

DPS is the way to go solo and duo.. I can solo the 2 first floors on Nest when going full out. 3 nameds ftw.. SMILEY

Next is to try Kettle solo.. he hasnt been up yet, when I've been there alone. Boss is a little high on the hp for soloing imho. Atleast the time I tried.. SMILEY

Ogrepalad · 02-19-2007, 08:23 PM

Paladin dps is not negligable--to my own considerable surprise. It does depend in your situation. You take a cleric and 4 true dps to a dungeon, you might as well save your mana for taunting. You and any other toon out hunting, and yes, bring out the dps--even if that other toon is a natural born killer. At worst you should be able to put out a 3rd of the kilker's dps, and usually half.

Neither is paladin healing. No, a paladin is not a healer--though I have been through Kaladim when our healer went LD and we just fought on through until he came back. Paladin healing can definitely make the difference between success and failure in a group.

I am through my crusader aa tree, and into paladin aa tree, and so far putting my points into healing, as that is what I do.

Felinol · 02-20-2007, 02:16 AM

Thanks for the inputs. You guys have valid points. There is one case though where I really believe defensive line is better and its when we are duoing even con heroic mobs for example where I cannot afford to use my wraths and have to focus solely on taunt/stun/heal since I get hurt alot. I mean being able to cast better wraths in that case will not help me because I can't afford to cast them. What do you think?

Kocia · 02-20-2007, 04:37 AM

Smite evil is 0 power cost nonresistible aoe, which consistently crits over 2000-2500 at 70. You can use that even in those hard fights and you gain more in burning down the mob than the 2% avoidance that block AA gives you.

Mantell · 02-20-2007, 03:31 PM

I'm really looking forward to getting Arch heal. One question... does it work across raid or just on self/group friend?

Regarding DPS: I Took Intelligence, Stamina and Wrath lines and halfway through Healing. This is great for overall DPS and healing both.

If I'm tanking for a group I usually start out in a defensive stance, hammer and shield, taunting for my aggro. If after awhile it seems like I'm not taking any serious damage I switch to offensive stance and gear and tank that way with the Claymore. I find when I do that, I have all the tank buffs you normally get with a group plus my own DPS gear and I usually parse at the top of the group. I rarely need taunts but I use the group taunt just for the divine debuff. It's a bit riskier, but if you know your healer is competent it's not that bad. The problem comes with unexpected adds and the like, but LoH and the ward can often fix a bad situation and allow you to switch back to defensive mode to regain control.

When not tanking use a good 2h weapon, specialize your gear toward DPS (Str and Int). Pick adornments that add to Str and/or Int and pick a symbol to put in your ranged slot and put a Scintillating Righteous Ornament on it (+45 to all divine damage).

Get at least Adept III in all your DPS abilities, get Masters if you can afford them. This seems obvious but I've talked to people who had App IV in Righteous Condemnation, for example, because it's just another sword hit and they didn't think they needed to worry about all of them. Don't neglect all your attacks, you need to find a rhythm to rotate through all of them.

Don't ignore your blue AEs when fighting a single mob (if it's safe to use them of course). A ton of DPS comes off of Smite Evil and Righteous Condemnation. Use a beholder totem if your power recharge is slowing down the group.

Wallzak · 02-20-2007, 04:54 PM

Across raid, Yes, out of group/raid... I can't remember, but I think so.

loveybutt · 02-20-2007, 09:32 PM

Vulkan_NTooki wrote:

Going Wrath/Heal here.. That way I can heal and dps on raids.
DPS is the way to go solo and duo.. I can solo the 2 first floors on Nest when going full out. 3 nameds ftw..
Next is to try Kettle solo.. he hasnt been up yet, when I've been there alone. Boss is a little high on the hp for soloing imho. Atleast the time I tried..

FYI on kettlebringer: He's always up when you do Nest, he's just no always in the first two rooms on that floor..

Lot's of good advice here though. I'm serisouly consideirng respecing my AA's into Wraths and Heals (atm i've gone all the way down hero line, but that's when i was leveling up and thought i'd be an off tank in guild raids..dont think that's happing /sad pally) And i have sometihng like 4 4 8 8 1 in str , but i might move that over to int aswell..

holypaladin28 · 02-21-2007, 12:36 PM

i have lvl ed a pally duo from lvl 10 to 65 with a swashy before eof and we did fine

i made a new fae aplly and have gone down the wraith/heal line

anyone that thinks dps isnt increased down the wraith line is ssmoking crack. my lvl 42 pally was fighting lvl 35h her ^ abnd was dpsing 600 average. and i was soling lvl 35 her ^^^ without getting out of the yellow for health

KaelVolorus · 02-22-2007, 04:57 AM

As said before, we arn't really healers, but if you go INT/WIS spec and healing in the EOF tree you can generate some pretty beefy healing. Generally in a raid I heal around 35-45% of what the MT healer heals for and I dropped arch heal for the time being. When I had it my arch heals range was 1281 to 1322, but I don't have fantastic gear. Also, possible to solo nest as 70 paladin. SMILEY

Final room is a pain though. Also might end up using a few consumables.

02-16-2007, 04:52 PM	#5
Wallzak Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 367	Have it, love it, would recommend it mostly I have gone down the STR line and got the shortened spell ability, and have Heal Crits maxed in the INT line. I can heal, ward, heal, heal all back to back... saving myself, the groups and raids numerous times. The only draw back... it's the least efficient of our heals.

02-18-2007, 05:20 PM	#7
Kocia Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 110	Felinol wrote: Hello, My GF and I play a paly/ranger combo which works great. We are now level 51 fae and leveling steadily. To give you an idea, we can solo even con heroic encounters, but I usually end up very low on mana at the end of the fight. Named mobs have to be about 4 levels under us to be killable. I have and use arch heal and it does scale as you level which is great. I only use this spell when required though as it drains alot of mana. The ward is much more effective in this area and make sure you buy the master 1 or adept 3 version if you can. In order, I use ward, normal single heal, arch heal and the big self heal when required. I speced myself as defensive (block AA) and heal paladin in the eof tree so far and it works great since the ranger can supply the dps that i lack. With aggro transfer she can always go all in with no chance of aggro. I think you will like your combo since it shares some similarity to ours. We like to quest alot, explore and take our time which is by far the most enjoyable way to play EQ2 IMO. Togetu Spirit Shard Collectors 51 Paladin of Unrest I think you will find wraths line way more effective in a duo, it will cut down the time and mana drain in your encounters. Defensive spec doesn't provide same bang for the buck and smite evil is all that and then some.

02-19-2007, 03:00 AM	#9
Kocia Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 110	Felinol wrote: Are you sure of that Kocia? I was always under the impression that my dps were "negligeable" and that it was not realyl worth it to go in the wrath line. Also I'm under the impression that wrath line is even less useful for a group tank since dps is not my role. I did go int line in the crusader tree though. When duoing heroic encounters close to my level, if often have to go in almost full heal/stun mode and thats with the defensive stance and AA line. If I go wrath line I won't be able to wrath at all and healing will be tougher, no? I still have my free respec so maybe I should use it. What do you guys think on this issue? Best way to win is to dish out lots of dps. There's nothing negligible about Pally DPS with INT line and Wraths. There's nothing like aggro gained thru mean AOE and smite evil is 0 cost, NON-resistible massive AOE. Wraths line is a must to any Pally, damage is king, damage is good in any situation. Hero line is good for heavy grouping Pallys or raid MT Pallys and those forgo the heal line, not the Wraths line. Wraths is our best AA tree.

02-19-2007, 06:35 AM	#10
Vulkan_NTooki Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 644	Going Wrath/Heal here.. That way I can heal and dps on raids. DPS is the way to go solo and duo.. I can solo the 2 first floors on Nest when going full out. 3 nameds ftw.. Next is to try Kettle solo.. he hasnt been up yet, when I've been there alone. Boss is a little high on the hp for soloing imho. Atleast the time I tried.. __________________

02-20-2007, 09:32 PM	#16
loveybutt Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 86	Vulkan_NTooki wrote: Going Wrath/Heal here.. That way I can heal and dps on raids. DPS is the way to go solo and duo.. I can solo the 2 first floors on Nest when going full out. 3 nameds ftw.. Next is to try Kettle solo.. he hasnt been up yet, when I've been there alone. Boss is a little high on the hp for soloing imho. Atleast the time I tried.. FYI on kettlebringer: He's always up when you do Nest, he's just no always in the first two rooms on that floor.. Lot's of good advice here though. I'm serisouly consideirng respecing my AA's into Wraths and Heals (atm i've gone all the way down hero line, but that's when i was leveling up and thought i'd be an off tank in guild raids..dont think that's happing /sad pally) And i have sometihng like 4 4 8 8 1 in str , but i might move that over to int aswell.. __________________

02-15-2007, 08:33 PM	#1
ugramu Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 35	Hood good is this heal in the paladin EoF tree? Does it scale as you level or is it always the same? Does it share a timer with any other heal or is it on its own? I got another question aswell, how well can a paladin heal if compared to some other classes that can heal themself? Im playing with my bro, and were playing paladin/wizard atm (we are lvl14). Was hoping to get some replies from ppl who have done the same duo or something similar and hear about their experience, thanks!

02-15-2007, 09:06 PM	#2
Karlen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,513	When you get wards, try to adept III or master them. The ward helps a lot as it prevents you from taking damage. Also make sure to upgrade your taunts and aggro transfer abilities to keep mobs from attacking the wizard. The group armament AA helps increase the protection for the wizard too without hurting your own. I can't speak to the arch heal as I don't have that yet. I have found that a paladin counts as about half of a real healer, which can be sufficient if you are in a small group of 2-3. You can play around with your tactics as well as Paladins have flexibility. With group armament and your ward, you can let the wizard tank in some situations if that is easier than holding aggro from him when he goes full out. Wizards are really good at holding aggro. If he can kill quickly you can keep him alive with wards and heals.

02-16-2007, 02:21 AM	#3
Kocia Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 110	Have your wizard put points in magi shielding, plus your ward and you two are good to go.

02-16-2007, 03:18 AM	#4
Boli32 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,425	I've played both a healer and a Paladin forced into a healing role, and I can tell you without a doubt... paladins ... arn't healers. The best thing you can say about a paladin's healing power is help to slows incoming damage... but it doesn't stop it, a sudden increse in incoming damage (Add, named, debuff) and you're suddenly in deep water.

02-18-2007, 03:19 PM	#6
Felinol Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 33	Hello, My GF and I play a paly/ranger combo which works great. We are now level 51 fae and leveling steadily. To give you an idea, we can solo even con heroic encounters, but I usually end up very low on mana at the end of the fight. Named mobs have to be about 4 levels under us to be killable. I have and use arch heal and it does scale as you level which is great. I only use this spell when required though as it drains alot of mana. The ward is much more effective in this area and make sure you buy the master 1 or adept 3 version if you can. In order, I use ward, normal single heal, arch heal and the big self heal when required. I speced myself as defensive (block AA) and heal paladin in the eof tree so far and it works great since the ranger can supply the dps that i lack. With aggro transfer she can always go all in with no chance of aggro. I think you will like your combo since it shares some similarity to ours. We like to quest alot, explore and take our time which is by far the most enjoyable way to play EQ2 IMO. Togetu Spirit Shard Collectors 51 Paladin of Unrest

02-18-2007, 11:30 PM	#8
Felinol Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 33	Are you sure of that Kocia? I was always under the impression that my dps were "negligeable" and that it was not realyl worth it to go in the wrath line. Also I'm under the impression that wrath line is even less useful for a group tank since dps is not my role. I did go int line in the crusader tree though. When duoing heroic encounters close to my level, if often have to go in almost full heal/stun mode and thats with the defensive stance and AA line. If I go wrath line I won't be able to wrath at all and healing will be tougher, no? I still have my free respec so maybe I should use it. What do you guys think on this issue?

02-19-2007, 08:23 PM	#11
Ogrepalad General Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 44	Paladin dps is not negligable--to my own considerable surprise. It does depend in your situation. You take a cleric and 4 true dps to a dungeon, you might as well save your mana for taunting. You and any other toon out hunting, and yes, bring out the dps--even if that other toon is a natural born killer. At worst you should be able to put out a 3rd of the kilker's dps, and usually half. Neither is paladin healing. No, a paladin is not a healer--though I have been through Kaladim when our healer went LD and we just fought on through until he came back. Paladin healing can definitely make the difference between success and failure in a group. I am through my crusader aa tree, and into paladin aa tree, and so far putting my points into healing, as that is what I do.

02-20-2007, 02:16 AM	#12
Felinol Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 33	Thanks for the inputs. You guys have valid points. There is one case though where I really believe defensive line is better and its when we are duoing even con heroic mobs for example where I cannot afford to use my wraths and have to focus solely on taunt/stun/heal since I get hurt alot. I mean being able to cast better wraths in that case will not help me because I can't afford to cast them. What do you think?

02-20-2007, 04:37 AM	#13
Kocia Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 110	Smite evil is 0 power cost nonresistible aoe, which consistently crits over 2000-2500 at 70. You can use that even in those hard fights and you gain more in burning down the mob than the 2% avoidance that block AA gives you.

02-20-2007, 03:31 PM	#14
Mantell Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 231	I'm really looking forward to getting Arch heal. One question... does it work across raid or just on self/group friend? Regarding DPS: I Took Intelligence, Stamina and Wrath lines and halfway through Healing. This is great for overall DPS and healing both. If I'm tanking for a group I usually start out in a defensive stance, hammer and shield, taunting for my aggro. If after awhile it seems like I'm not taking any serious damage I switch to offensive stance and gear and tank that way with the Claymore. I find when I do that, I have all the tank buffs you normally get with a group plus my own DPS gear and I usually parse at the top of the group. I rarely need taunts but I use the group taunt just for the divine debuff. It's a bit riskier, but if you know your healer is competent it's not that bad. The problem comes with unexpected adds and the like, but LoH and the ward can often fix a bad situation and allow you to switch back to defensive mode to regain control. When not tanking use a good 2h weapon, specialize your gear toward DPS (Str and Int). Pick adornments that add to Str and/or Int and pick a symbol to put in your ranged slot and put a Scintillating Righteous Ornament on it (+45 to all divine damage). Get at least Adept III in all your DPS abilities, get Masters if you can afford them. This seems obvious but I've talked to people who had App IV in Righteous Condemnation, for example, because it's just another sword hit and they didn't think they needed to worry about all of them. Don't neglect all your attacks, you need to find a rhythm to rotate through all of them. Don't ignore your blue AEs when fighting a single mob (if it's safe to use them of course). A ton of DPS comes off of Smite Evil and Righteous Condemnation. Use a beholder totem if your power recharge is slowing down the group.

02-20-2007, 04:54 PM	#15
Wallzak Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 367	Across raid, Yes, out of group/raid... I can't remember, but I think so.

02-21-2007, 12:36 PM	#17
holypaladin28 General Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 255	i have lvl ed a pally duo from lvl 10 to 65 with a swashy before eof and we did fine i made a new fae aplly and have gone down the wraith/heal line anyone that thinks dps isnt increased down the wraith line is ssmoking crack. my lvl 42 pally was fighting lvl 35h her ^ abnd was dpsing 600 average. and i was soling lvl 35 her ^^^ without getting out of the yellow for health

02-22-2007, 04:57 AM	#18
KaelVolorus Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 34	As said before, we arn't really healers, but if you go INT/WIS spec and healing in the EOF tree you can generate some pretty beefy healing. Generally in a raid I heal around 35-45% of what the MT healer heals for and I dropped arch heal for the time being. When I had it my arch heals range was 1281 to 1322, but I don't have fantastic gear. Also, possible to solo nest as 70 paladin. Final room is a pain though. Also might end up using a few consumables.