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11-23-2006, 10:13 PM
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#121 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 255
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Yea, clearing 100 trash mobs so you can kill one named and get 1 item is a lot of reward for the risk huh? roflmao |
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11-23-2006, 11:44 PM
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#122 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Arizona
Posts: 9,500
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Its a lot better fun than getting 17 relic drops plus 8 named drops in one visit to Labs.
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11-24-2006, 12:00 AM
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#123 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 837
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I think the answer is simple. Maybe take out some trash mobs. I mean I haven't been in there yet but if it's anything like the yawnfest that PPR was then something definitely needs to be changed. Its one thing to have the excitement of going in your first couple of times, but once you've done the zone 10 times killing countless amounts of trash mobs is just boring. End of story. On the other hand if you're complaining about going in and getting no chests - STOP GOING IN! You need to gear up more to take down the nameds or tweak your raidforce. The trash can be a deterrent but if you can't even take down the easy nameds, but this zone on hold until you've geared up more. It's not meant to be tackled so early anyways and only the guilds that have been geared up totally in KoS stuff should be able to tackle these mobs and down them. |
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11-24-2006, 02:08 AM
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#124 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 255
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I never said I wanted it to go that far either. A balance would be nice. A chest off named like Djinn Master or something. That would make it worth our time instead of 1 item in a chest from a named after clearing hundreds of trash. 1 item for 24 people spending hours on end clearing trash is hardly worth those 24 people's time, effort and cost. If I know, spending my time clearing all that crap, will in the end pay off after killing the named, on top of dealing with the challenge of the named, it would go a LONG way in making the zone more desirable and worth my playtime. At least I know I have something to look forward to other than what I have seen so far. Poorly itemized. We can take down the named, other than the ones that are bugged. It's as much, if not worst of a yawn fest that PPR was. Message Edited by Scortch on 11-23-2006 04:14 PM |
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11-24-2006, 02:26 AM
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#125 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 43
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maybe some people just have to ask themselves this question.... why do you raid? Is it for the lore, figuring out different strategies, or is it simply for loot. Many people have different opinions on what makes a good raid zone, some people like drawn out fights, some people like instant gratification, and some people are not happy unless they physically get something to show for. Is that just so you can show your "manlihood" nanny nanny, look what I have and you don't. So what, not everyone raids for the loot. With that in mind, I would think it's a bit selfish to assumethat zones should be just the way you like it, and you can't even begin to quote percentages on 95% of the ppl want this, 5% dont, not everyone voices their opinion. so just ask yourself why you raid :smileyvery-happy:Happy Thanksgiving
Message Edited by Myrah on 11-23-2006 03:27 PM |
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11-24-2006, 02:31 AM
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#126 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 255
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I have to say BS on that one. If there were no loot in raid zones, they would never have anyone in them. EVERYONE raids for the loot. That's the whole purpose of raiding. What's the point in wasting your time going in to kill stuff if you don't get anything out of it? Would you go to work knowing you were not going to get paid for it? NO Same here. People are not going to put effort, time and cost into a raid knowing they would not get anything out of it. Silliest thing I ever heard. Message Edited by Scortch on 11-23-2006 04:33 PM |
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11-24-2006, 03:10 AM
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#127 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,040
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Loot is the little extra that keeps me raiding. The main reason why I raid is because I enjoy raiding and find having to figure out the strategies to defeat mobs are fun and interesting to me.
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Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest |
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11-24-2006, 03:38 AM
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#128 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 43
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sorry you personally feel that way scor, and I don't think you can compare raiding to real life. People do volunteer just for the satisfaction of it.There have been many raids where I haven't gotten any loot, and I still play. Just remember not EVERYONE (as you put it) agrees with your opinion, nor mine for that fact.Happy Thanksgiving (time for pie)
Message Edited by Myrah on 11-23-2006 04:39 PM |
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11-24-2006, 05:56 AM
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#129 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 837
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The people who raid for loot are the people who join raiding guilds and stay in them for 4 months until they're geared up and quit. I don't think there's one serious raider who only plays for loot. Do you realize you need to go into raid zones week after week after clearing all the mobs for the 100th time. Once your geared up those people quit. The serious raiders, people who've been doing it for 2 years now are the people who enjoy getting together as a group. At first it's fun to figure out mobs, later it's fun to get gear, and then it's just fun to get together. If you don't enjoy raiding for the sake of just raiding you'll never last in a raiding guild. I can guarantee you this guy hasn't been raiding since T5. He probably played WoW, switched, played another MMO, switched, played another MMO, switched, and is playing eq2 now. All the while he's been in raiding guilds and has never known what being a raider is or why he gets bored after a certain amount of time. |
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11-24-2006, 07:43 AM
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#130 |
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General
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 118
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I raid for the loot. I enjoy getting master chests and seeing people get items and enjoy getting them myselves. I dont care for the lore or anything. Ive been in Disso since it formed so I guess your wrong.
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11-24-2006, 09:30 AM
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#131 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 382
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I think you are an exception then Itook. About 95% of the raiders who are in it for loot dont manage to make it long. The ones who make it the long run are those who do it to be part of a team.
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11-24-2006, 03:43 PM
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#132 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 209
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Does anyone remember the classics? You know the old Atari games. Pac-man, Space Invaders (bare with me, I'm not off topic) In those games the only reward for completing a level was to do the same thing over again, only this time faster. Each level getting progressively harder and the only way to gauge how good you were was by your score. You know, remember, back when ever game had scores? I see the devout raider as very similar to the gaming mentality of old. They want to do a raid faster and better. They want to eliminate all free radicals and leave nothing to chance. They want to say "if the mob has the ability "x" and there are probabilities attributed to that ability" they want to quantify it, segregate it, and lower the probability of an occurrence from happening. All the while everyone getting into a groove and figuring out what they need to do to get that 1 more DPS out of an encounter. Yes, I mean 1 DPS, if you are not working to find that 1 DPS then you should not raid. You don't know what it's like to find perfection in yourself. This goes for all classes, this search for perfection. Healers need to know how much damage the Target does, how much damage will be absorbed by wards and pick the heal that uses the least amount of power for the most amount of healing. Everything counts, ever second lost adds up over the course of a 4 minute fight. This is why Emerald's yard trash is so important. The purpose of the trash isn't to bore you. It's to challenge you to become a fine tuned machine and kill them all in the shortest time possible. Sure it may take you 6 hours to clear the zone now. But once you have maxed your AA's, have full adornments. Everyone knows exactly what they need to do and where to go next. All this is rewarded by a shorter trip through the zone. 3 months from now it may take 3 hours. When the next level cap rise occurs the zone may take 2 hours or less. I would be lying if I said I didn't do it for loot. But in a true raiders mind Loot is not the end all and be all. It's a means to an end that will help you get that 1 more DPS. That one item that will make that 2 minute encounter now 1 minute and 59 seconds. Items are, quite simply the "Score" of EQ2. The speed in which your raid completes a zone is the reward. Because no one wants to be bored. They want to get it over quickly and if the developers gave that up right off the bat, that would amount to them giving you a high score without the skills or the effort required to achieve that score.
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11-25-2006, 01:12 AM
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#133 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 837
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Well one thing, this game has barely been out long enough to know who's out for the long haul. I guess 3 years or so since release which means 2 years 6 months of raiding is enough though. I still think from the sounds of it there's too much trash mobs. There's tweaking your dps to max it out on trash mobs, then there's having so much trash people get tired and bored in a zone like PPR. This sounds like PPR2. It's just not realistic to raid zones for 6 hours every week for most people. Been there, done that, don't have the time anymore. I'll reserve judgement until I've done the zone but it sounds like the amount of trash involved is just way too much. Even if you're parsing 20k raid dps + if it's taking 5+ hours there's too much trash. |
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11-25-2006, 03:02 AM
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#134 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,040
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There's not that much trash. The reason why it's taking 5+ hours now is because people are still trying to figure out the actual named mobs. Not the trash.
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Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest |
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11-25-2006, 04:46 AM
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#135 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 255
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I still say it's BS that people don't raid or do group instances for loot. You can claim that it doesn't happen just to disagree with me but it's wrong. I am talking about raids as a whole. Sure, you like to raid because it's fun. So do I but, I guarantee you that if there was no loot at all, there would be no raids period. There wouldn't be any raiding guilds at all. There would be no one playing the game. Look at how many people left after the disaster called DoF where nothing was itemized in the end game raid zones and they were bugged beyond belief. There has been a TON of people that left this game because of this stuff. You might have a FEW people, like maybe 20, that would try and do raid zones for the pure fun of it but, when there is no return for anyone's investment of time, effort and money spent, then what purpose is there to waste all that for nothing? Only an idiot would waste their time for nothing. Volunteering in RL is totally different. You do something for someone else. Volunteer work in RL corresponds more to this game in that you go in with your guild to raid a zone and contribute your part to help someone else get something so that they in turn help you get something. The goal is still the same, to get something for someone or yourself. If there was nothing to get to start with, then no one would go in. You honestly think there would be so many people raiding or playing the game for no returns? Then you are full of it. Message Edited by Scortch on 11-24-2006 06:50 PM |
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11-25-2006, 07:43 AM
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#136 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 382
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No one said that people would raid w/o loot. People who only raid for loot dont raid for long though. |
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11-25-2006, 04:07 PM
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#137 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 19
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To start this I will admit that I am a raider wannabe... so I am in no way an expert (now that half the people started reading just rolled their eyes and moved on...) After reading all of messages on this thread. I have to wonder... if you need 100 aas, EoF raid gear to do this zone... why do you need more uber loot? Is this not supposed to be one of the hardest raiding zone in the game? So after you have beaten this... why do you need something better? It is just going to sit on your person for the next time you go through the hardest zone in the game... Your fabled/relic gear should already be had at this point... this isn't a 'gear em up' zone. This is braggin' rights. Plain and simple. This is the "bring your A game" raid zone... Now some people don't like it. Some people do. This is a fact of life, though... you cannot please everyone all of the time. Besides the bug the developer already stated that he knew (and fixed). Judging by the developer's post, I don't think SoE wants it to change. I think this zone wasn't meant to be for loot raiders, I think this is for tactical and bloodlust raiders. People are different... that is what makes the world a little crazy... so some people raid for loot, some for bragging rights, but all for the fun of it (cause if your not having fun then it is becoming a job, and no one needs another one of those...) So maybe people should stop with the generalities of "this is what a hardcore raider is" or "no one raids purely for loot"- people raid... that is why there are so many raid zones. I don't know if people should start yelling "broke" yet. Yeah it maybe a little tedious, but you cannot already have your entire raid force with the full gear and aas... as was intended by developers, so the fights take a bit longer... and the difference in named mobs is sort of fun... "surprise" this mob is in your raid instance today... Sort of gives you another reason to go back (since there is no loot). It should keep some raiders busy, but unfortunately it may make other raiders bored. Again, nobody can please everyone at the exact same time. Being a hedonist I have to say, if your not having fun... then don't raid that particular zone. Some zones are not for everyone, I don't like certain zones, doesn't mean I am going to quit playing all together. This cannot be the only high end raid zone in all of EoF... it just happens to be the toughest. I expect that some people may feel I am an idiot, or that I wouldn't understand "high end raiding"... and I am okay with that. I just think that maybe instead of generalizing how everyone raids or what everyone wants... we could look at all sides, or wait and see what SoE has in mind... (like instead of saying "broke" ask if this is the way they intended it... that these names drop no loot... with specifics...) Perhaps I am being too much of a hippy in hoping that the issue can be discussed without stereotypes, namecalling, and the typical "SoE screwed it up" :smileyhappy:
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11-25-2006, 05:19 PM
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#138 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 382
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11-25-2006, 06:48 PM
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#139 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 80
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11-25-2006, 07:29 PM
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#140 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 382
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iirc the dev said .5% but that was only regaurding FTH.
Message Edited by FlintAH on 11-25-2006 08:33 AM |
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11-26-2006, 12:40 AM
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#141 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 255
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If you are going into a "bring your A game" raid zone, then people expect "A game" gear to drop. It's that simple. They expect the rewards to match their effort and the challenge. They will need it for the next thing to come along.
Message Edited by Scortch on 11-25-2006 02:42 PM |
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11-26-2006, 12:52 AM
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#142 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,040
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It does drop A Game loot. You just need B Game loot to kill it, whereas if you have the low-end KoS loot, you only have C Game Loot. So get some better loot.
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Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest |
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11-26-2006, 05:32 AM
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#143 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 837
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Exactly, which shows what loot is for. It's for progression. Even once you kill the hardest mob the loot has a purpose. It's to make killing that mob easier next time or for gearing up for the next expansion.
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11-27-2006, 04:27 AM
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#144 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 255
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Yea, very very very little A game loot, compared to all the crap you have to deal with and the time and effort involved. VERY poorly itemized for 24 people spending as much effort and time and cost as they have to in this zone.
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11-27-2006, 05:26 AM
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#145 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,040
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Because, I'm sure you've killed Wuoshi already and know what drops.
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Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest |
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11-27-2006, 11:20 PM
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#146 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Crushbone
Posts: 5,378
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Woushi drops the fabled class legs. Mayong the chest. Not that i killed him just what i been told and i agree i raid not for loot but becuase i enjoying raiding. As i rarely bid on items. I don't mind the trash in EH. i do wish there was more named in EH and i kinda wish they would stop the ROOST design on raids. A dev once said and i agree that the EQ2 raider is nothing like the EQ1 Raider. People expect everything handed to them. People expect the short path to raids. People expect every fight to reward them no matter how trivial. People complain that there are heroic mobs on the way to a epic zone and expect eveyr raid zone to be a simple click. In refenrece to an eq1 raid Like plane of fire to kill Fenin Ro where you had to clear an army for over 2 hours to reach the boss mob who dropped 2 items this is in a raid of 54-72 people. (There was also 2 named w a chance to drop 1 additional item a peice) People didn't complain then, about the travel past epic quality mobs or the trash to the boss, but they do now. To me it is the experienced raider who really enjoys the journey and the challenge. While the rest of you just complain about the loot. Message Edited by Gungo on 11-27-2006 10:31 AM |
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11-28-2006, 12:19 AM
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#147 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 255
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Umm, I guess you haven't been in there yet because last tiem i checked, there was more than just woushi. It's still a poorly done zone. They are still basing what's fun on a few people that don't have a clue what's fun for the rest of the people on all the other servers. Very poorly done and very poorly itemized. Message Edited by Scortch on 11-27-2006 02:21 PM |
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11-28-2006, 12:38 AM
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#148 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,040
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I disagree that it is poorly designed. Mobs have minions to do their bidding, they don't even have that much health! It's not like they have 3 million HP for each trash mob, they barely have a million. Honestly, I'm happy with the way trash is setup in this zone, compared to Inner Sanctum, the trash is miles better. Btw, did you even kill the static named yet to see what he drops? Btw, not everything is supposed to drop the best OMG loot in the game. The final boss of a zone, however probably does. Did you kill him? No, I didn't think so. I don't think anybody has killed him in his correctly working fashion. So please, deal with the trash, at least it a) doesn't respawn, b) doesn't have 3 million HP, or c) doesn't activate in weird/buggy fashions.
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Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest |
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11-28-2006, 01:56 AM
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#149 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 837
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I'm not sure if mayong and wuoshi drop the legs and chest. I saw a post from the NPU templar who already has the chest and bp from their class set. I don't know, but I don't think they've killed either yet.
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11-28-2006, 04:02 AM
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#150 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,014
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I dunno, I just checked the templars in NPU, and both are wearing Relic bp and legs. They may have had the LEGENDARY drops, not the FABLED ones.
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