Why are the Ruins sooo much harder than the Caves?

Pixel Tr · 02-10-2006, 05:50 AM

It's a real disparity between the good and evil sides. I took two good alts throught the caves no problem. they got their really nice boots, legs and chest armor. Heck the chest piece my berserker got from caves had 90 mitigation, the blackened iron bp i twinked him with only has 88.

Now, the bruiser I'm trying to take through the Ruins is having a hell of a hard time. The large number of orcs, and so many wandering ones. All with large agro ranges compared to the cramped quaters of the zone. The guards that ks you as ofen as they save you. And of course the lonetusks which so many are ^^ heroics. What the hell? There's not enough people on the evil side to get a group going to take them down, at least on kithicor. And low level groups aren't exactly smooth going. And to send them into densely populated areas of heroic ^^? Poor job dev team.

the bruiser has only gotten leg armor so far, with twice as much work as it took my good chars to get all three peices. This zone really needs some tuning. Evil side sucked in comparison to good already, stop making it worse.

Zard · 02-10-2006, 06:31 AM

I was harvesting in the Ruins recently with my 22 Bruiser and encountered a Named 18^^^ orc (General Brokentusk?) and two minions. I engaged him thinking, "this is a tier 1 zone, he can't be too hard." Nope. He easily defeated me so I recruited a 22 Necromancer that was passing by. After two more deaths -- by each of us -- we finally take this big orc and his caster minions down to get a metal chest. Inside was a level 19 Dirge Master, a unique-looking legendary robe (+6 INT, +6 WIS plus resists) and a Brigand Adept.

Anyway, to make a long story short, I think the closest "boss" monster in the Caves is the Named earth elemental (Atramentor?) that spawns after you clear the DAC a few times and the number and density of aggressive orcs is absolutely ridiculous for the levels that would normally be hunting there.

ps. The General is a Shadowknight so expect him to open with a powerful Harm Touch; it has a long recast timer though so you might want to take the alpha strike, break the encounter and re-engage immediately after you are rested so he won't be able to use it again. He uses lifetaps and heals very quickly so I recommend LOTS of DPS. Take out his caster minions first as they are fragile but their spells hit hard.

Kamimura · 02-10-2006, 07:44 AM

I agree, the ruins is much harder than anything on the good side.. really rough for a small group of newbies..

redsma · 02-10-2006, 08:19 AM

was commenting on this to my guild last night and hoping one of em had a low lvl evil alt to come help me! i am a lvl 15 bruiser and was trying to get to the overseer to save the vagrants and i would would have to aggro mobs and run back to the guards, defeat them, but by the time i had done that new mobs had respawned!! im all for endless mobs and not having to wait with long respawn times but this was ridiculous. I eventually got to him but it took forever. and like others have mentioned, freeport is pretty much empty so getting a team was out of the question. check those respawn rates SOE, i know its a warzone but i had no downtime at all.

megaira13 · 02-10-2006, 11:02 AM

Yeah this zone post LU19 is a nightmare - the social ag and swarming that goes on would make my head explode if I were new to this game...as it is, I shut my mic off to prevent bursts of random cussing on vent & startling my guildmates. Edit to add - the sprawl used to (and still has) a similar problem - if you step too far past the gates and the guard, you get swarmed by adds from all sides...if you pull back too close to the guard, he runs up and KS's your mob. And of course, when you really *need* him to step in, he's standing there twirling his thumbs.

Message Edited by megaira13 on 02-09-200610:04 PM

tracheaspider · 02-10-2006, 04:08 PM

100% agree. Also wanted to point out how much fun it is when the nearby guards aggro a bunch of extra orcs, then die, and those orcs switch to killing you. Or when the guards sprint over from across the zone to help beat on the one you're killing... right when you're in the middle of an AE. @#$%...

matinisback · 02-10-2006, 07:14 PM

aye

StoneySilen · 02-10-2006, 08:52 PM

Yup, I made a post about this several days ago. Love all the other newbie zones but this one is darn near unplayable due to guard aggro, mob aggro and the number of mobs and speed that they spawn.

Aerebus · 02-11-2006, 04:43 AM

My wife and I made some newbies to check out the changes and I have to say the Ruins are hard but man it was fun. The challenge of that place is what made it fun. You have to get away from the guards or they will KS you so you must put yourself seriously in harms way. We died more than a few times but we got some great exp. I would recomend it to folks that like true butt clenching fun and wouldnt mind seeing some more zones like it to be honest.

Kaceecam · 02-11-2006, 05:39 AM

on a side note there is a comparable mob in the caves a rare spawn called Silver___ sumin :p anywho hes big seal looking thing that roams whole zone hes 16^^^ and very tough..just an fyi but i am inconcurrence that the Ruins have alleviated the soloing element it had before , really a three or more area now

Pixel Tr · 02-11-2006, 09:05 AM

Well I finally managed to finish out the Ruins quests with my Bruiser and am disappointed yet again with this zone compared to the Caves.

With the Caves you get your pants, boots mid quest and then finally chest armor. But the Ruins you don't get your boots/chest until the very last and you have to choose between them. You get an one all class chestpiece with 56 mit (that's an ugly pink color) and your choice of one item either boots or a different chest piece. For evil classes who have a better than 56 mit chest piece that means you lose out compared to the good side. You either get your better chest armor with the subpar one or boots with the subpar chest piece.

I was using the commonlands grif towers for the first time and the Nek station has agro mobs right at the base that attack you(baby rattlers), while the hidden canyon station has a group of 5 level 19 heroic undead right in the narrow canyon you have to run past. In comparison the antonica grif towers are little islands of safety.vGuess the devs just plain don't like the evil side.

Aerebus · 02-11-2006, 09:17 AM

I do agree with you the evil side of the tracks is much tougher than the good side. We have toons on both sides and do prefer Freeport but it is harder, besides the npcs in Qeynos are so sickenly nice it gets under my skin. :smileyhappy:

Pixel Tr · 02-11-2006, 09:49 AM

Well, since I've been complaining I thought i should offer some suggestions on how to improve the zone for the devs to ignore SMILEY

Anything that's a heroic^^ turn into a no-arrow mob

Anything that's currently a no-arrow mob make a a one down arrow mob

Separate the last quest reward into two awards, with the boots being offered earlier in the quest sequence and the chest armor for the last step.

OR

Leave the mobs the same con, but just cut their numbers in half. Open up the old level editor and delete half the spawn points.

Separate the last quest reward into two awards, with the boots being offered earlier in the quest sequence and the chest armor for the last step.

StoneySilen · 02-11-2006, 12:14 PM

Aerebus wrote:
I do agree with you the evil side of the tracks is much tougher than the good side. We have toons on both sides and do prefer Freeport but it is harder, besides the npcs in Qeynos are so sickenly nice it gets under my skin. :smileyhappy:

Not the first time that Freeport's side has been harder, Bloodlines is this way too. Guess they like to penalize us. Smaller population, harder mobs, etc...

firewolf · 02-11-2006, 01:23 PM

I like the new Ruins a lot. It actually gives you a feeling of being in the middle of war zone with danger at every corners. No doubt it is harder to complete the quests, but a lot of fun. You cannot simply run around the zone without some preparation for add. Wish there are more dynamic zone like this instead of zone with mobs standing around waiting to be slaughtered. You could actually level up to 20 in the Ruins. With a group you can get very good xp killing those heroic 3 arrows up right at zone in. If you like it easy, play on qeynos side. Life is always tougher on Freeport side which make it more interesting. Antonica and Commonland are perfect reflection of this.

Ixnay · 02-12-2006, 02:25 AM

Let the Ruins be harder. Freeport will produce more skilled players. This is like your mom making you eat your vegetables.

Message Edited by Ixnay on 02-11-200601:26 PM

SniperKitty · 02-12-2006, 07:54 PM

Don't listen to these crybaby whiners! Leave the zones as they are! They're perfect! In fact, add a few more aggro mobs to the caves. I've got three new alts I'll be leveling soon (after I gorge myself on initial KoS stuff) and I love a challenge. I'm sick and tired of easy peasy zones where there's no danger at all.

Robbpilot · 02-12-2006, 09:04 PM

The funny thing is that you can actually go out and kill the orcs in the commonlands for a while to level up to be ready for the ruins... although you get sent to the ruins first if you follow the quest path.

I really like that zone now, but it does not really fit with the sequence they've tried to establish. After completing that sequence of quests in the ruins, you are sent out to the commonlands and begin receiving quests to kill things that are now gray to you because of all the XP you'd have gotten in the ruins.

Like I said, the ruins is a blast now, but it is kind of a powerlevel option more than a seemless part of each player's quest path if you ask me.

SniperKitty · 02-13-2006, 12:22 AM

Yeah, I feedback'd that problem when I tested the stuff. I got sent to the Ruins at 6th level on my Shadowknight. I took two steps past the barricade and got slammed hard.

Sassinak · 02-14-2006, 01:22 AM

The Qeynos districts are all lower level than the Freeport districts. It's not just a Ruins/Caves issue. The other 3 Freeport districts all feed into the Ruins around level 10. This is later than in Qeynos where you head to the Caves at an earlier level.I think Qeynos got the short end of the stick with the revamp. When you step off of the newbie island, you might already be too high level for all of the Qeynos districts, except maybe the Caves. This is not the case in Freeport, where you will have things to do in all of the districts after leaving the island. I prefer the Freeport arrangement.The front part of the Commonlands is pretty low-key compared to Antonica. I think they made the Ruins higher level to give Freeport more content in the 10-14 range. Freeport needed it.Freeport also needed more quests, and they got it, as the revamp gave Freeport about 50% more quests than Qeynos. If you follow the whole quest line you'll do about 20 quests in Qeynos, but about 35 quests in Freeport. The Ruins is a big part of this.

Guy De Alsace · 02-21-2006, 07:04 AM

My one FP toon out of 9 has enjoyed the harshness of the evil side. That which does not kill you makes you stronger and the strong rule the weak. Fits perfectly.Was fun running all the way up to bone lake in Nek Forest at 18th without dying SMILEY

02-10-2006, 06:31 AM	#2
Zard General Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Longmont, CO (USA) Posts: 573	I was harvesting in the Ruins recently with my 22 Bruiser and encountered a Named 18^^^ orc (General Brokentusk?) and two minions. I engaged him thinking, "this is a tier 1 zone, he can't be too hard." Nope. He easily defeated me so I recruited a 22 Necromancer that was passing by. After two more deaths -- by each of us -- we finally take this big orc and his caster minions down to get a metal chest. Inside was a level 19 Dirge Master, a unique-looking legendary robe (+6 INT, +6 WIS plus resists) and a Brigand Adept. Anyway, to make a long story short, I think the closest "boss" monster in the Caves is the Named earth elemental (Atramentor?) that spawns after you clear the DAC a few times and the number and density of aggressive orcs is absolutely ridiculous for the levels that would normally be hunting there. ps. The General is a Shadowknight so expect him to open with a powerful Harm Touch; it has a long recast timer though so you might want to take the alpha strike, break the encounter and re-engage immediately after you are rested so he won't be able to use it again. He uses lifetaps and heals very quickly so I recommend LOTS of DPS. Take out his caster minions first as they are fragile but their spells hit hard. __________________

02-10-2006, 11:02 AM	#5
megaira13 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 391	Yeah this zone post LU19 is a nightmare - the social ag and swarming that goes on would make my head explode if I were new to this game...as it is, I shut my mic off to prevent bursts of random cussing on vent & startling my guildmates. Edit to add - the sprawl used to (and still has) a similar problem - if you step too far past the gates and the guard, you get swarmed by adds from all sides...if you pull back too close to the guard, he runs up and KS's your mob. And of course, when you really need him to step in, he's standing there twirling his thumbs. Message Edited by megaira13 on 02-09-200610:04 PM __________________

02-10-2006, 07:14 PM	#7
matinisback Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 71	aye __________________

02-10-2006, 08:52 PM	#8
StoneySilen General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 883	Yup, I made a post about this several days ago. Love all the other newbie zones but this one is darn near unplayable due to guard aggro, mob aggro and the number of mobs and speed that they spawn. __________________

02-11-2006, 09:49 AM	#13
Pixel Tr Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 6	Well, since I've been complaining I thought i should offer some suggestions on how to improve the zone for the devs to ignore Anything that's a heroic^^ turn into a no-arrow mob Anything that's currently a no-arrow mob make a a one down arrow mob Separate the last quest reward into two awards, with the boots being offered earlier in the quest sequence and the chest armor for the last step. OR Leave the mobs the same con, but just cut their numbers in half. Open up the old level editor and delete half the spawn points. Separate the last quest reward into two awards, with the boots being offered earlier in the quest sequence and the chest armor for the last step.

02-10-2006, 05:50 AM	#1
Pixel Tr Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 6	It's a real disparity between the good and evil sides. I took two good alts throught the caves no problem. they got their really nice boots, legs and chest armor. Heck the chest piece my berserker got from caves had 90 mitigation, the blackened iron bp i twinked him with only has 88. Now, the bruiser I'm trying to take through the Ruins is having a hell of a hard time. The large number of orcs, and so many wandering ones. All with large agro ranges compared to the cramped quaters of the zone. The guards that ks you as ofen as they save you. And of course the lonetusks which so many are ^^ heroics. What the hell? There's not enough people on the evil side to get a group going to take them down, at least on kithicor. And low level groups aren't exactly smooth going. And to send them into densely populated areas of heroic ^^? Poor job dev team. the bruiser has only gotten leg armor so far, with twice as much work as it took my good chars to get all three peices. This zone really needs some tuning. Evil side sucked in comparison to good already, stop making it worse.

02-10-2006, 07:44 AM	#3
Kamimura Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,964	I agree, the ruins is much harder than anything on the good side.. really rough for a small group of newbies..

02-10-2006, 08:19 AM	#4
redsma General Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6	was commenting on this to my guild last night and hoping one of em had a low lvl evil alt to come help me! i am a lvl 15 bruiser and was trying to get to the overseer to save the vagrants and i would would have to aggro mobs and run back to the guards, defeat them, but by the time i had done that new mobs had respawned!! im all for endless mobs and not having to wait with long respawn times but this was ridiculous. I eventually got to him but it took forever. and like others have mentioned, freeport is pretty much empty so getting a team was out of the question. check those respawn rates SOE, i know its a warzone but i had no downtime at all.

02-10-2006, 04:08 PM	#6
tracheaspider Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 126	100% agree. Also wanted to point out how much fun it is when the nearby guards aggro a bunch of extra orcs, then die, and those orcs switch to killing you. Or when the guards sprint over from across the zone to help beat on the one you're killing... right when you're in the middle of an AE. @#$%...

02-11-2006, 04:43 AM	#9
Aerebus Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 9	My wife and I made some newbies to check out the changes and I have to say the Ruins are hard but man it was fun. The challenge of that place is what made it fun. You have to get away from the guards or they will KS you so you must put yourself seriously in harms way. We died more than a few times but we got some great exp. I would recomend it to folks that like true butt clenching fun and wouldnt mind seeing some more zones like it to be honest.

02-11-2006, 05:39 AM	#10
Kaceecam Lord Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2	on a side note there is a comparable mob in the caves a rare spawn called Silver___ sumin :p anywho hes big seal looking thing that roams whole zone hes 16^^^ and very tough..just an fyi but i am inconcurrence that the Ruins have alleviated the soloing element it had before , really a three or more area now

02-11-2006, 09:05 AM	#11
Pixel Tr Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 6	Well I finally managed to finish out the Ruins quests with my Bruiser and am disappointed yet again with this zone compared to the Caves. With the Caves you get your pants, boots mid quest and then finally chest armor. But the Ruins you don't get your boots/chest until the very last and you have to choose between them. You get an one all class chestpiece with 56 mit (that's an ugly pink color) and your choice of one item either boots or a different chest piece. For evil classes who have a better than 56 mit chest piece that means you lose out compared to the good side. You either get your better chest armor with the subpar one or boots with the subpar chest piece. I was using the commonlands grif towers for the first time and the Nek station has agro mobs right at the base that attack you(baby rattlers), while the hidden canyon station has a group of 5 level 19 heroic undead right in the narrow canyon you have to run past. In comparison the antonica grif towers are little islands of safety.vGuess the devs just plain don't like the evil side.

02-11-2006, 09:17 AM	#12
Aerebus Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 9	I do agree with you the evil side of the tracks is much tougher than the good side. We have toons on both sides and do prefer Freeport but it is harder, besides the npcs in Qeynos are so sickenly nice it gets under my skin. :smileyhappy:

02-11-2006, 12:14 PM	#14
StoneySilen General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 883	Aerebus wrote: I do agree with you the evil side of the tracks is much tougher than the good side. We have toons on both sides and do prefer Freeport but it is harder, besides the npcs in Qeynos are so sickenly nice it gets under my skin. :smileyhappy: Not the first time that Freeport's side has been harder, Bloodlines is this way too. Guess they like to penalize us. Smaller population, harder mobs, etc... __________________

02-11-2006, 01:23 PM	#15
firewolf Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 181	I like the new Ruins a lot. It actually gives you a feeling of being in the middle of war zone with danger at every corners. No doubt it is harder to complete the quests, but a lot of fun. You cannot simply run around the zone without some preparation for add. Wish there are more dynamic zone like this instead of zone with mobs standing around waiting to be slaughtered. You could actually level up to 20 in the Ruins. With a group you can get very good xp killing those heroic 3 arrows up right at zone in. If you like it easy, play on qeynos side. Life is always tougher on Freeport side which make it more interesting. Antonica and Commonland are perfect reflection of this.

02-12-2006, 02:25 AM	#16
Ixnay Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 539	Let the Ruins be harder. Freeport will produce more skilled players. This is like your mom making you eat your vegetables. Message Edited by Ixnay on 02-11-200601:26 PM __________________ Elleffgee (LFG), Chaotic Legion, Kithicor EQ2Flames.com Got Flames?

02-12-2006, 07:54 PM	#17
SniperKitty Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	Don't listen to these crybaby whiners! Leave the zones as they are! They're perfect! In fact, add a few more aggro mobs to the caves. I've got three new alts I'll be leveling soon (after I gorge myself on initial KoS stuff) and I love a challenge. I'm sick and tired of easy peasy zones where there's no danger at all. __________________ ... in bed.

02-12-2006, 09:04 PM	#18
Robbpilot Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 111	The funny thing is that you can actually go out and kill the orcs in the commonlands for a while to level up to be ready for the ruins... although you get sent to the ruins first if you follow the quest path. I really like that zone now, but it does not really fit with the sequence they've tried to establish. After completing that sequence of quests in the ruins, you are sent out to the commonlands and begin receiving quests to kill things that are now gray to you because of all the XP you'd have gotten in the ruins. Like I said, the ruins is a blast now, but it is kind of a powerlevel option more than a seemless part of each player's quest path if you ask me.

02-13-2006, 12:22 AM	#19
SniperKitty Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	Yeah, I feedback'd that problem when I tested the stuff. I got sent to the Ruins at 6th level on my Shadowknight. I took two steps past the barricade and got slammed hard. __________________ ... in bed.

02-14-2006, 01:22 AM	#20
Sassinak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 557	The Qeynos districts are all lower level than the Freeport districts. It's not just a Ruins/Caves issue. The other 3 Freeport districts all feed into the Ruins around level 10. This is later than in Qeynos where you head to the Caves at an earlier level.I think Qeynos got the short end of the stick with the revamp. When you step off of the newbie island, you might already be too high level for all of the Qeynos districts, except maybe the Caves. This is not the case in Freeport, where you will have things to do in all of the districts after leaving the island. I prefer the Freeport arrangement.The front part of the Commonlands is pretty low-key compared to Antonica. I think they made the Ruins higher level to give Freeport more content in the 10-14 range. Freeport needed it.Freeport also needed more quests, and they got it, as the revamp gave Freeport about 50% more quests than Qeynos. If you follow the whole quest line you'll do about 20 quests in Qeynos, but about 35 quests in Freeport. The Ruins is a big part of this.

02-21-2006, 07:04 AM	#21
Guy De Alsace Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: England Posts: 1,902	My one FP toon out of 9 has enjoyed the harshness of the evil side. That which does not kill you makes you stronger and the strong rule the weak. Fits perfectly.Was fun running all the way up to bone lake in Nek Forest at 18th without dying