German Translation

[Schrag]

Hello Mr Smedly,I adress you, and I hope this message gets to you.In the last 2 years SOE proved it is unable to create a german translation of the game. The constant changes do not make the task easier, but even old stuff from the beginning back in 2004 are not yet translated.Why not allow us german players to play in english on german server? The cost of this small change is small compared to the cost of all the laughter you give us each time a new version is put on the server. This costs you player - people like me who only wait for a better new game, people I and others talk to and prevent them from playing this kind of (from the point of translation) horrible game.If you want the success of EQ2 like WoW has, its not only fun and freedom needed, it's also quality!I don't want any more cut of quest text, wrong targetnames in quests, different names for skills/items when crafting, horrible and clearly wrong translations. You (SOE) can't do it right, so please give us the choice to see the same english text as your developper create them.Playing on a different server is no valid option, as I am involved in a big guild.Edit: In case someone wonders - the translation greatly affects gameplay - from annoying to unplayable

Message Edited by Schrager on 08-29-2006 02:43 AM

[Dra]

I agree 100%. If I could play the game with an english client on the german server where my guild and friends are, it would make the game much more enjoyable. I think at least 2/3 of the server population would enjoy playing with an english client and probably many more will come back into game if they know they don't have to deal with the really bad translation.There has been a lot of effort to fix translation issues recently but often these efforts are wastet and the translation only gets bugged even more. So please just give us the choice to play with an english client instead of the german.Thx

[Alienor]

full ack

[Cirth_Beer]

This is also applicable for the french server, a  (big ?) part of us would like to be able to play in english on the french server ... and we have the same problems as our german friends

[toxe14567]

Agreed, the translation (not only the german) is horrible. There are actually people that stop playing the game because they dont understand all the english text.Really, worst translation ever. :smileysad:

[Ebarel]

/totally agree

 

and the worst part imho is that after every update things are changed back to English if they were touched for the update. That constant back and forth is REALLY annoying.

 

 

Maybe second worst is looking for collection items, where you have the quest open with one missing item (translated) and you try to find the item on the broker (in English, as the item is not translated) Of course, the same happens the other way round.

 

I'd use the English client the minute it becomes available, way easier for questing, items, crafting and broker transactions.

[Besual]

I can play with the "denglish" but in some cases it's really strange: the recipe books asks for "XYZ Lehm" but in your inventory and in the broker all you see is "xyz loam". It's even worse when 5 out of the 6 items for a collection are translated and the 6th is not. Well, it's translated in your quest journal but not in inventory / broker.On the other hand I havn't seen professinal plat farmers on Valor. I guess the reason is that many people speak english either as native or as foreign language but not german. If you could run the english client for the localized servers we would get the "blessing" of plat farmers too.

[Ula]

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Ebarel wrote:

/totally agree

 

and the worst part imho is that after every update things are changed back to English if they were touched for the update. That constant back and forth is REALLY annoying.

 

 

Maybe second worst is looking for collection items, where you have the quest open with one missing item (translated) and you try to find the item on the broker (in English, as the item is not translated) Of course, the same happens the other way round.

 

I'd use the English client the minute it becomes available, way easier for questing, items, crafting and broker transactions.

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Not disagreeing with the OP, but specifically for this point...

On english servers, the name of collect items in the quest journal almost never match the name you have to use in the broker.

It's usually a simple pattern, but for example the quest journal might call for a "fragment of shattered human bone" where the item is actually named "shattered human bone fragment".  So maybe they are translating those "correctly" and preserving the same confusion in German that they had in Engligh...

[thorvang]

the translation is done via full text search. before some text gets displayed the client searches in some database for an appropriate translation. so if some text gets changed with an update, the translation isn't found anymore. same applies for items that are named different. with the english client you don't have great a problem to find a "shattered human bone fragment" as "human shattered bone fragment" in the broker. but if your item is named "yadda" in your journal and "gibbery" in the broker you're running into problems

[Alienor]

Well, at least in the last weeks there has been some movement in the translation. However, in my opinion the way we have to prove by screenshots that Soe has messed up, is just ridiculous. Actually we do the translation for them, not getting payed or credited in any way and have all the hassle with doing screenshots and uploading and writing posts (reducing the actual game time). This is just not efficient. Take a look at Eve online e.g. where the community is doing the complete translation, imho this would be much more reliable. We always complain about the translators not playing the game at all, I mean, come on, you don't have to actually play, just log on and see the mess, half is translated, half is in English, half is translated in a way that your toe nails are just standing up. And then they confirm to us it would be native speakers who do the translation when the translation looks more like babelfish. On the other hand, SoE advertizes the game as "fully translated" which is just a plain lie. (I really wonder what will happen if some lawyer will have a really bad day and then plays this so-called translated version . Anyways, I do not really care about the translation as I do not read all the quest texts up until the point "kill x of y". However, it really sucks when asking to kill 10 scaleborn defilers, finding only scaleborn templars in the game and finally getting a ding for "you killed 1/10 of a scaleborn inquisitor" That's why people keep asking to play  the game in  English on an international server.Finally just a question to our French friends over there: Do you have similar experiences with the mentioned new way on how to improve the translation by forwarding user screenshots as prove?

[thorvang]

this is taken from the "german" client. it proofs two points: 1st - the client isn't even close to being 100% localized and 2nd - something's very wrong with the mitigation numbers

[Jynnan]

Off topic for a moment ...

What impresses me most about this thread, is that the German and French speakers commenting here have a far better grasp of the English Language than most of the native english-speaking posters on these forums! The spelling and grammar is almost faultless!

 

On topic ...

I can only say that I sympathise with your problem - this must be a real pain! Hope things work out in the end for you guys!

 

[Renpatsu]

You got my sympathy on this topic. I chose to play on Lucan which is a US server and one reason was the 'denglish' on german servers - beside the RP aspect. Whenever I see in-game screenshots taken with the german version or talk to players who tried the german version, I boggle my head. Basically it's a comedy show and I am totally able to understand why people may leave those servers.

[Cirth_Beer]

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Aoraki a écrit:Well, at least in the last weeks there has been some movement in the translation. However, in my opinion the way we have to prove by screenshots that Soe has messed up, is just ridiculous. Actually we do the translation for them, not getting payed or credited in any way and have all the hassle with doing screenshots and uploading and writing posts (reducing the actual game time). This is just not efficient. Take a look at Eve online e.g. where the community is doing the complete translation, imho this would be much more reliable. We always complain about the translators not playing the game at all, I mean, come on, you don't have to actually play, just log on and see the mess, half is translated, half is in English, half is translated in a way that your toe nails are just standing up. And then they confirm to us it would be native speakers who do the translation when the translation looks more like babelfish. On the other hand, SoE advertizes the game as "fully translated" which is just a plain lie. (I really wonder what will happen if some lawyer will have a really bad day and then plays this so-called translated version . Anyways, I do not really care about the translation as I do not read all the quest texts up until the point "kill x of y". However, it really sucks when asking to kill 10 scaleborn defilers, finding only scaleborn templars in the game and finally getting a ding for "you killed 1/10 of a scaleborn inquisitor" That's why people keep asking to play  the game in  English on an international server.Finally just a question to our French friends over there: Do you have similar experiences with the mentioned new way on how to improve the translation by forwarding user screenshots as prove?

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Yes it's exactly the same ... we have to provide some screenshot to show translator what the game looks like i think :pWhile reading your post i was sure you was on the french server because you really expressed how i fell it is on our server too (only difference is that i read the quest :p)I think we're on the same localized boat :p One funny thing is that i heard the japanese translation was excellent ... (made by square/enix) .... funny to see that soe can find competent people to localize ... but not for euro ...

Message modifié par Cirth_Beer le 08-31-2006 11:45 AM

[Alienor]

When looking back the last year I am afraid, this is just another ride of a dead horse. However, we are riding at least something and don't have to walk :smileywink:The wish of getting everything displayed in English on an EU server has also the same age and will be fulfilled the same time we do not have to pay taxes anymore and xmas and easter is on the same day.:smileyhappy:--Edit: added smiley

Message Edited by Aoraki on 08-31-2006 01:04 PM

[EvG]

the denglisch was one of the things that convinced me to play on test and i have given up on the hope for a proper translationbut it does not hurt to ask for the chance to play on a international server with the original clientps: the game is way better untranslated and i do not think soe has an idea how the gaming experience goes down with what they did for a translation

[Zerebro]

*lol*, that really silly!I never understood why I have to change region at login to play on servers that are in a different region and why it should affect my game. But now I understand! I almost started on a german server (I live nearby Germany). But I selected EN to play on Splitpaw with friends that already played EQ2.It must have to do something with the EULA which differs per region. So instead of solving that (making 1) they thought of a silly work-around which I think results in this situation...I can't imagine that a german server is communicating different with your client than an english server. It's the client that is doing the translation.At login you choose region/server. If german, it checks if client is german version. So that check should be changed, so you can pick any language you want. Then it downloads the correct language client.My 2 nosy eurocents.

[cruinne]

I have to say that, frequently, the English is badly written, imprecise, awkward, or just plain incorrect as well.  It must be particularly bad to try to translate accurately to another language from that.  There is a very serious need for some major editing and auditing (and some good old fashioned spell checking) on quests and game content in EverQuest. I swear sometimes I'd do it on a volunteer basis if only to get rid of the silliness of seeing "forty" regularly spelled as "fourty" and the like. 

Message Edited by cruinne on 08-31-2006 08:15 AM

[Mystara]

Being a native English speaker, with German as my second language, (Though I'm not nearly as fluent in it as I used to be) I could just imagine the difficulty and severe annoyance this would cause. I personally become annoyed by some of the typographical and grammatical errors that get by in English, and honestly they are few and far between.To have to be subjected to a situation where the native language is poorly written and structured, coupled with the fact that you have to switch gears and try to piece together English on top of it so it makes some sort of sense, seems like it would be way too much of a mental burden to deal with.You'd spend more of your time just trying to figure out what a quest is asking you to do, rather than doing it.

[Ebarel]

yes, for all those who worry about some spellings and errors in the English verison, you really have no idea what other people go through in their "local-circumc-ised" versions.

THANK GOD, my Sage is now finally a "Weiser" (=someone with knowledge) again, after being a "Salbei" (=spice with strong smell and taste) twice now. I would bet 100 plat that with one of the next major revamps he will be back to being a spice......

 

You could continue that with stupidities in the translations (and nobody can tell me that any native German speaking translater who has a clue about that game would translate a science profession with a spice name) varying from stupid over plain wrong to missing and worst (like some examples above) different in the various descriptions). Or having 5 of 6 collections items being translated, the 6th one in English is really a trouble to find it on the broker (esp. if the description in the collection quest list is translated).

Most annoying for gameplay though are those translations where they just dont fit into the windows (which are of course not resizeable) so you cant read

- which instance to chose (still not corrected for most splitpaw difficulty levels - or just again, as well as a lot of other instances)

- recipes scribed (cause the translations are so long that the only important part you need - the number - is way too far to the right to see in your scribed books list)

.... (better stop now or i might think about having char transfers to EU english -besides my chars already on the US Server...)

[Nelyia]

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Renpatsu wrote:
You got my sympathy on this topic. I chose to play on Lucan which is a US server and one reason was the 'denglish' on german servers - beside the RP aspect. Whenever I see in-game screenshots taken with the german version or talk to players who tried the german version, I boggle my head. Basically it's a comedy show and I am totally able to understand why people may leave those servers.

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I second that, 100%

After browsing the German localization board a few times just for fun, I fully understand you - and hope that they will allow the English client for continental Europe language servers or, even better, hire some more people to speed up/start/continue the translation process

I know a few people who do not even consider trying EQ2 because of this issue; not everyone wants to chat in English all the time if it's not their native tongue or are as patient as you folks enduring muffige Piratenkappen which add Mitigation to the Kopf.  

[Yomarbalthas]

Maybe SOE should consult a real localization expert instead of going for the cheapest agency around.

I'm a game localization expert who has been working full-time in the translation industry for more than 11 years. During my career, I have translated about 18.000.000 words (which roughly translates to 57.200 pages).

I haven't played the German version of the game, neither do I speak German. But the problems that seem to be plagueing this game are very typical.

First, it seems that the translators of this game are not making (efficient) use of so-called Computer-Assisted Translation (CAT) tools. These are tools that remember every string that has ever been translated, ensuring consistency throughout the text. For you, the gamers, that means that item A is not suddenly called item B in the next update. Usage of these tools is a must, as no human translator will be able to remember how he translated item #18763 5 months ago.

Second, it seems that the game has not been fully localized. It goes without saying that if item A is translated once, it should be translated everywhere. This issue can either be caused by SOE themselves (not providing the agency all translateable strings) or the agency they are using (they have used wrong filters for filtering out translateables or they have simply overlooked certain strings). Another possible cause is that the agency receives the translateables after the update has been implemented, or that the agency is simply running behind the facts because they can't keep up with the speed the game is updated.

Third, it seems the agency is using different translators at the same time, to make sure they can cope with the deadlines that are undoubtedly being imposed. Some of these translators seem to know their stuff better than others, as no sane game translator would ever translate Sage as a spice. It's possible the CAT tool databases of the different translators are not linked to eachother (to my knowledge, not one game translation agency in the world actually uses CAT tools, let alone linking different databases from different translators - this while CAT tools are a must for these kind of projects).  Having the same game translated by multiple translators without using CAT tools is a safe way to ensure that you'll get at least 36 different translation styles with 36 different translations for every term.

Fourth, it seems the updates are not play-tested, or that SOE does not impose a maximum string limit for each string. This is causing the truncations on your screen. Play-testing costs extra money, so often developers just forget about it, resulting in a total mess. One way to prevent truncations while not play-testing is by linking maximum string limits to each string, that should never be exceeded by the translators. The main cause of this is however that the devs have hardcoded the interface, instead of making an interface that adapts itself on the fly. This is a major design flaw seen from a localization perspective.

Fifth, it seems that the translators did not take into account the context of certain translations. When translating lists that are clearly in a certain order (for example, the English strings start with the recipe numbers), the same order should be maintained in the target language (i.e. you start the German translation with the same numbers).

That's just a few things that could have happened here. For a project as huge as this, things will need to be handled very structurally, and it seems this has not been done. What you then end up with is a card house that will collapse sooner or later. This isn't the first time, and it won't be the last time. The industry I work in is infested with false prophets and we definitely deserve the terrible reputation we have.

Developers should learn to use agencies/freelancers that/who know what they are doing, instead of going to the agency which promises the quickest delivery date for the lowest price (which 90% of the agencies do). Game translations done by "professional" agencies are mostly handled by totally inexperienced project managers with several weeks of experience, who move on after a year or two once they have found a company that actually pays a reasonable wage. Most project managers have no clue about the inner workings of CAT tools or the structural approaches needed to tackle long-term projects, and most MMORPGs are play-tested by international exchange students who know everything about biotechnology, but have never touched a computer game in their lifes.  

As you noted yourself, Square has far more experience in the localization field and it shows. They hire only the best of the best and are willing to pay for that.

Reading your comments it seems that things have become so bad, that a total retranslation from scratch is necessary. Managing the translation process is a science on itself, which is unfortunately far too often underestimated.

I'm willing to give SOE some professional advice on these matters if needed, as I have barely scratched the surface of this issue. SOE knows where to reach me. And I've got quite some credentials to show them

Message Edited by Yomarbalthasar on 08-31-2006 08:52 PM

[Leawyn]

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Ebarel wrote:

THANK GOD, my Sage is now finally a "Weiser" (=someone with knowledge) again, after being a "Salbei" (=spice with strong smell and taste) twice now. I would bet 100 plat that with one of the next major revamps he will be back to being a spice......

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I'm sorry but that is one of the funniest things I've ever read. Almost as good as the "Ich bin ein Berliner"... LOL!

[tracheaspider]

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Yomarbalthasar wrote:

(snip)

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Thanks for the peek inside the industry.  For someone with an amateur interest in translation, it's fascinating stuff.

Sure hope that SOE considers letting German and French folk use an English client if they wish, since I understand how obnoxious it is to deal with sloppy translations.  They can save face by pretending it's in the same vein as letting Western players use the SOGA models or something.  :p 

[Akku]

Agree, OT

[Zarador]

SoE is not the only company to loose something in the Translation.KFC made an Add for Japan several years back and the translation for homestyle food came out:Chicken that tastes like your Grandmother. Chevy found it interesting to find out one of their cars was named the "No-Go"

[Killerbee3000]

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Schrager wrote:

Hello Mr Smedly,I adress you, and I hope this message gets to you.In the last 2 years SOE proved it is unable to create a german translation of the game. The constant changes do not make the task easier, but even old stuff from the beginning back in 2004 are not yet translated.Why not allow us german players to play in english on german server? The cost of this small change is small compared to the cost of all the laughter you give us each time a new version is put on the server. This costs you player - people like me who only wait for a better new game, people I and others talk to and prevent them from playing this kind of (from the point of translation) horrible game.If you want the success of EQ2 like WoW has, its not only fun and freedom needed, it's also quality!I don't want any more cut of quest text, wrong targetnames in quests, different names for skills/items when crafting, horrible and clearly wrong translations. You (SOE) can't do it right, so please give us the choice to see the same english text as your developper create them.Playing on a different server is no valid option, as I am involved in a big guild.Edit: In case someone wonders - the translation greatly affects gameplay - from annoying to unplayable

Message Edited by Schrager on 08-29-2006 02:43 AM

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i know, you would like a german version of the game, (i'll call not existant on the current one) but, let me allow me to judge your english, its not bad so you maybe would be happy on a english server like i am.

[HerrReins]

2 thumbs up for this post!I totally agree. The german lokalisation is just horrible to play.I want to play with the englisch client on the german server Innovation.If this ever happens, i will stop making sarcastic posts in the german lokalisation forum. Yours sincerely,Ventural of InnovationPS: Ihr Tarnanzüge das Übersetzungsteam für 3 Punkte Gedankenschaden.

[TWG]

Sorry my englisch is very bad, but i dont agree this post. I want a good german version, no englisch version. The german version is terrible, thats correct and if someone want to play in englisch, he should have the possibility. But, why is a company as Sony unable to translate a game? I know a lot of german people, who want to play EQII, if there is a FULL german version.  

[Alienor]

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Killerbee3000 wrote:

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i know, you would like a german version of the game, (i'll call not existant on the current one) but, let me allow me to judge your english, its not bad so you maybe would be happy on a english server like i am.

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All our friends are on the German server. All my plat is on the German Server. Sony charges us for character transfer (if a move from Innovation to Splitpaw is possible at all). Most probably I would be happy on an English server if I would have started there from the beginning, but on the other hand SoE is advertising, marketing and selling the game as "fully translated". To be honest it is not that bad for me, otherwise I would not have played the game for over a year now. But nevertheless, what they do here is really annoying and embarassing and has severe negative effects on my gameplay experience.Oh, and I forgot: Translation *is* possible as I hear from The-Other-Game-You-All-Know (TM) from the company with the "stormy" name. At least my friends playing that always fall in laughter when I am showing them screenshots from EQ2's translation.

Message Edited by Aoraki on 09-01-2006 08:20 AM