Wizard/Warlock Aggro Transfer

K'aldar · 08-26-2006, 07:10 PM

Just what the title says pretty much. I've looked everywhere here and can't find a post, so I was wondering if anyone on test could tell me what % of hate they transfer? Thanks in advance.

Xede · 08-26-2006, 08:02 PM

its been stated by a few people that the transfer is 3% at M1 for the T7 version of the spell.

silentpsycho · 08-30-2006, 06:51 AM

Patrix513 wrote:
its been stated by a few people that the transfer is 3% at M1 for the T7 version of the spell.

Why not 30% to match scouts?

Tirga · 08-30-2006, 06:57 AM

it's been brough up many times. It's not "scouts" as far as I know it's Swashies and maybe Brigands...

Gertack_v2 · 08-30-2006, 07:02 AM

Tirga wrote: it's been brough up many times. It's not "scouts" as far as I know it's Swashies and maybe Brigands...

Swashbucklers and Assassins. Rangers have a passive hate reduction buff.

EvG · 08-30-2006, 11:01 AM

With 30% hate reduction Warlocks would do the same damage assasins do now and that can not be :smileytongue:

Silphir · 08-30-2006, 12:01 PM

Brigands dont get any hate reduction. They get a 12% hate increase (Ad3) and in return AoE immunity

Captain Apple Darkberry · 08-30-2006, 04:29 PM

Silphir wrote:Brigands dont get any hate reduction. They get a 12% hate increase (Ad3) and in return AoE immunity

You mean other than the Beffudle Adversaries...?

EtoilePirate · 08-30-2006, 05:22 PM

Tirga wrote: it's been brough up many times. It's not "scouts" as far as I know it's Swashies and maybe Brigands...

At Adept III, Assassins get a transfer that takes 26% of the threat they generate and dumps it on the player on whom the buff is placed. There are also two "de-taunts" that simply reduce the Assassin's threat. With judicious use of those three CAs, it's true that a good assassin can almost always avoid stealing aggro. Given how they're designed towards spike DPS though (thinking of Decapitate, for example), it'd be all aggro all the time without those. I will say that the biggest aggro magnets I've ever seen or played with are Warlocks, though. And that's in the group of people I play with, all of whom are skilled players who know their classes and their duties. It probably wouldn't go amiss for them to be able to siphon off a little more threat.

chOgg · 08-30-2006, 06:23 PM

EtoilePB wrote:
Tirga wrote: it's been brough up many times. It's not "scouts" as far as I know it's Swashies and maybe Brigands...
At Adept III, Assassins get a transfer that takes 26% of the threat they generate and dumps it on the player on whom the buff is placed. There are also two "de-taunts" that simply reduce the Assassin's threat. With judicious use of those three CAs, it's true that a good assassin can almost always avoid stealing aggro. Given how they're designed towards spike DPS though (thinking of Decapitate, for example), it'd be all aggro all the time without those. I will say that the biggest aggro magnets I've ever seen or played with are Warlocks, though. And that's in the group of people I play with, all of whom are skilled players who know their classes and their duties. It probably wouldn't go amiss for them to be able to siphon off a little more threat.

Yeah, my fiancee is a warlock and wants me to scrap my bruiser for a paladin just because of the Amends line. I suggested she make a wizzie instead. We compromised by me getting an AE weapon and a bunch of AE achievement abilities and her nuking just a little bit less than she could.Thoral, 53 Bruiser, Mistmoore

Iseabeil · 08-30-2006, 07:19 PM

silentpsycho wrote:

Patrix513 wrote:

its been stated by a few people that the transfer is 3% at M1 for the T7 version of the spell.

Why not 30% to match scouts?

Murderous Design at Master1 is 29%, Swarthy Disorder is at 27% at Master1 and both are group only, so suddenly wizard and warlock would go from having no hate transfer to having the best hate transfer in game and the ability to use it crossraid?

Dun get me wrong, both these classes and warlocks in particular need some hate controll of their own, those kind of numbers would unbalance the present mechanics of the game to huge proportions. It would make sorcerors so overpowered in damage potential that the current issue between casters/melee would look silly not to mention what it would do to tanking and holding agro. 3% might be on weak side, but better upping it later then having to lower it, right?

Message Edited by Iseabeil on 08-30-2006 08:21 AM

Cowdenic · 08-31-2006, 07:53 AM

Iseabeil wrote:

silentpsycho wrote:

Patrix513 wrote:

its been stated by a few people that the transfer is 3% at M1 for the T7 version of the spell.

Why not 30% to match scouts?

Murderous Design at Master1 is 29%, Swarthy Disorder is at 27% at Master1 and both are group only, so suddenly wizard and warlock would go from having no hate transfer to having the best hate transfer in game and the ability to use it crossraid?

Dun get me wrong, both these classes and warlocks in particular need some hate controll of their own, those kind of numbers would unbalance the present mechanics of the game to huge proportions. It would make sorcerors so overpowered in damage potential that the current issue between casters/melee would look silly not to mention what it would do to tanking and holding agro. 3% might be on weak side, but better upping it later then having to lower it, right?

Message Edited by Iseabeil on 08-30-2006 08:21 AM

Might be on the weak side? are you kidding? They could have it at 12% right now and I would say it is on the weak side. 3% is a joke. This needs to be upped. Bad.

QQ-Fatman · 08-31-2006, 10:14 AM

T7 M1 version = 3% hate transfer is an insult. It's "hey now you sorc have a hate transfer spell, stop whining." It needs to scale up and be at least 15%+ to make a difference in raids.

Sacra Magice · 08-31-2006, 01:16 PM

3% completely sucks and is nearly useless. Compared to the 29% that assassins get 3% is insulting to sorcerers (that meaning you have the master I, adept III would be 2% haha).

I guess that SOE do not want to give sorcerers a too good aggro transfer because of raiding situations... a lot of sorcerers transfering aggro to the main tank would mean the main tank not lossing aggro at all...

But what about sorcerers that do not raid? 3% is useless to us... (it also is for raiding sorcerers, that for sure).

My idea would be: Make that spells to be around 20% aggro transfer at least when used in your group while being a lower % if used in another group of a raid situation.

So the descripcion would be somethink like:

- Trasnfer 2x% of your thread to target.

· If target is in your group.

- Transfer x% of your thread to target.

· If used outside your group.

Silphir · 08-31-2006, 01:36 PM

AngryWhiteDog wrote:
Silphir wrote:Brigands dont get any hate reduction. They get a 12% hate increase (Ad3) and in return AoE immunity
You mean other than the Beffudle Adversaries...?

My bad...

IllusiveThoughts · 09-01-2006, 01:49 AM

Patrix513 wrote:

its been stated by a few people that the transfer is 3% at M1 for the T7 version of the spell.

it doesn't scale either, only the power proc portion

even the lower level versions are only 3% hate trasfer at m1. and 2% at app4-adept 3.

TheStateFish · 09-01-2006, 02:51 AM

The new warlock deaggro line doesn't stack with the wizard line from what i'm reading (the spell lines currently don't stack on live either), and with lets say an average of 6 sorcerors on a raid we would need 6 tanks to all benefit fully from the spell.

It's a long night if there are 6 tanks doing their uber dps.

Now if it would dump hate on anyone you cast it on, then we could at least dump our hate on the assassin and/or swash that are dumping hate on the MT for a total of 6-9% more hate to the tank. Not great, but more noticable than 3%, and all the rest of the sorcerors can get rid of an aditional 3% using the other scouts that can deaggro easily anyway.

That said, master level should be at least 10%

Edited for clarity.

Message Edited by TheStateFish on 08-31-2006 03:55 PM

Dragonreal · 09-01-2006, 06:50 PM

I have to agree that 3% is way weak.. I mean a lvl like 10 assassin (prolyl not even 10 I forget what lvl my assassin was when I got the spell) can transfer 5% at APP1.. 10% at m1.. soo a lvl 10 assassin can transfer more hate at app1 than a lvl 70 sorc can at m1? there's something really screwy there.. the sorcs should at the very very least get 10% imo

KazzySoJaz · 09-03-2006, 03:54 PM

Dragonrealms wrote:
I have to agree that 3% is way weak.. I mean a lvl like 10 assassin (prolyl not even 10 I forget what lvl my assassin was when I got the spell) can transfer 5% at APP1.. 10% at m1.. soo a lvl 10 assassin can transfer more hate at app1 than a lvl 70 sorc can at m1? there's something really screwy there.. the sorcs should at the very very least get 10% imo

Be lucky you get a hate transfer at all SMILEY

I think they should let you people keep dying because you do not know what aggro control means.

press press press fusion click click click, oh man my mommy just called dinner <----- the life of a wizzy

CalypsoCGN · 09-03-2006, 05:08 PM

10% - 15% agro transfer wouldn't be overpowered for us warlocks!!! I guess even with these numbers I could easily draw agro, if I would go all out...all the people that say that we should be happy to have 3% have never played a warlock or even a wizzie to it's full potential / power I guess...Warlocks are an AoE based class, Assasins (for example) on the other hand more single target based...now guess who needs a better agro control...YOU can de-agro a lot and tranfer lots of your hate to the tank, but we create more overall "AoE-hate" on the encounters and should be happy with 3% that only 1, I repeat ONE, sorc can dump on the tank??? Hell no...face it...we need an agro control nearly as good as yours!!!! After all we should be in the T1 dps group as well...and it seems you only fear that we could get close to your parses, if we finally get a USEFULL de-agro tool!!10% -15% would be fine at T7 M1, otherwise the effect won't be noticable at all!!

KazzySoJaz · 09-03-2006, 05:50 PM

CalypsoCGN wrote:
10% - 15% agro transfer wouldn't be overpowered for us warlocks!!! I guess even with these numbers I could easily draw agro, if I would go all out...all the people that say that we should be happy to have 3% have never played a warlock or even a wizzie to it's full potential / power I guess...

Warlocks are an AoE based class, Assasins (for example) on the other hand more single target based...now guess who needs a better agro control...YOU can de-agro a lot and tranfer lots of your hate to the tank, but we create more overall "AoE-hate" on the encounters and should be happy with 3% that only 1, I repeat ONE, sorc can dump on the tank??? Hell no...face it...we need an agro control nearly as good as yours!!!! After all we should be in the T1 dps group as well...and it seems you only fear that we could get close to your parses, if we finally get a USEFULL de-agro tool!!

10% -15% would be fine at T7 M1, otherwise the effect won't be noticable at all!!

You should re-read it, it can be done cross raid on any fighter type, doesn't have to be main tank.

*EDIT*

Here is the exact quote:

- Accord can be cast on a raid member. If they are a fighter, this transfers a small amount of the wizard's hate toward the fighter.

Notice the small, if people would have read this a long time ago they would not have been surprised by the 3% hate transfer, which IMO is more than you should be getting, as you already can stand outside of AoE radius, meaning if you learned how to control your aggro you wouldn't die.

That means any fighter class is fair game, but I suggest not putting it on a brawler as we already have enough issues of stealing aggro.

2nd Edit - changed aggro radius to AoE sorry meant AoE was tryign to work and post =P blah

Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on 09-03-2006 06:55 AM

Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on 09-03-2006 08:20 AM

CalypsoCGN · 09-03-2006, 07:06 PM

Outside of agro radius...you must be kidding me...have you ever played a sorc class in the end-game and not just grouped with them?????????????????????I don't think so, if you say that it is more than we should be getting!!!!!It doesn't matter where we stand...we can draw agro from all positions...And 10% would still be a SMALL amount of agro tranfered, if you keep in mind how much agro we are actually creating and how much of this would still be on our side. This is especially hard for warlocks, as we are more of an AoE class...3% is just a punsch in the face of every sorc...And yes, I knew that it would be 3%, but I thought that it would be 3% at the lvl the spells get intoduced first to the classes as app 1 version and not the T7 M1 version...

Message Edited by CalypsoCGN on 09-03-2006 08:08 AM

Message Edited by CalypsoCGN on 09-03-2006 08:11 AM

KazzySoJaz · 09-03-2006, 07:42 PM

CalypsoCGN wrote:
Outside of agro radius...you must be kidding me...have you ever played a sorc class in the end-game and not just grouped with them?????????????????????
I don't think so, if you say that it is more than we should be getting!!!!!

It doesn't matter where we stand...we can draw agro from all positions...

And 10% would still be a SMALL amount of agro tranfered, if you keep in mind how much agro we are actually creating and how much of this would still be on our side. This is especially hard for warlocks, as we are more of an AoE class...

3% is just a punsch in the face of every sorc...

And yes, I knew that it would be 3%, but I thought that it would be 3% at the lvl the spells get intoduced first to the classes as app 1 version and not the T7 M1 version...

Message Edited by CalypsoCGN on 09-03-2006 08:08 AM

Message Edited by CalypsoCGN on 09-03-2006 08:11 AM

First sorry about aggro radius meant AoE, fixed that.

Next, either tell your MT to spam aoe taunts so you can go all out (which I doubt he will), or you can monitor what you spam on multiple mobs. I have been raiding for a bit now and usually every time a wizzy or warlock die it is because they 1) do not know what aggro control is 2) hit fusion ASAP 3) newb, see #1

Here is something for you to look @:

TheStateFish · 09-03-2006, 09:11 PM

KazzySoJazzy wrote:
CalypsoCGN wrote:
Outside of agro radius...you must be kidding me...have you ever played a sorc class in the end-game and not just grouped with them?????????????????????
I don't think so, if you say that it is more than we should be getting!!!!!

It doesn't matter where we stand...we can draw agro from all positions...

And 10% would still be a SMALL amount of agro tranfered, if you keep in mind how much agro we are actually creating and how much of this would still be on our side. This is especially hard for warlocks, as we are more of an AoE class...

3% is just a punsch in the face of every sorc...

And yes, I knew that it would be 3%, but I thought that it would be 3% at the lvl the spells get intoduced first to the classes as app 1 version and not the T7 M1 version...
Message Edited by CalypsoCGN on 09-03-2006 08:08 AM
Message Edited by CalypsoCGN on 09-03-2006 08:11 AM

First sorry about aggro radius meant AoE, fixed that.

Next, either tell your MT to spam aoe taunts so you can go all out (which I doubt he will), or you can monitor what you spam on multiple mobs. I have been raiding for a bit now and usually every time a wizzy or warlock die it is because they 1) do not know what aggro control is 2) hit fusion ASAP 3) newb, see #1

Here is something for you to look @:

First, the MT spams all taunts.. thats their job, but the timer on the aoe taunt is 30 seconds or so isnt it? you're a monk, you should know how much you suck at holding aggro.If you ahve been raiding for a little bit now and notice the wizard and warlock are dieing without being #1 on the parse, then you are already seeing our problem. Pet classes can out parse us without worrying about aggro because they split it with their pets. The scouts can go nuts because they either have major hate dumps or deaggro skills. The sorcerors are truely glass cannons. We can't even do moderate dps without pulling aggro unless we have 3-4 other classes helping us with aggro.I as a warlock am dead at aound 800dps without at least a troub with me and a dirge with the mt. add a swash to the mt, and a coercer's harmonious link on my end and i can maybe do 1200-1400, but only with a troub and coercer in my group, and a dirge, swash, and coercer/assassin in the MT group can i approach 2000dps. We are at the mercy of oter classes in ways a monk can't understand, and our potential is wasted because they haven't the skills to handle our dps. We need a tool to reduce the strain on the rest of the raid while increasing it's efficiency. We need 10% on the new spell lines, minimum, and we need the aggro transfer to work on whoever we cast it on so that all sorcerors on the raid can actually benefit from it. Or, make it 30% but group only so a warlock can jump into the MT group and all sorcerors will still feel the benefit.As for your fun picture, jack is a swash, he could just use his threat position decrease combined with his FD aa and not get a scratch. Then again, with his hate transfer, he wouldn't pull aggro in the first place.

KazzySoJaz · 09-04-2006, 01:10 AM

TheStateFish wrote:
KazzySoJazzy wrote:
CalypsoCGN wrote:
Outside of agro radius...you must be kidding me...have you ever played a sorc class in the end-game and not just grouped with them?????????????????????I don't think so, if you say that it is more than we should be getting!!!!!It doesn't matter where we stand...we can draw agro from all positions...And 10% would still be a SMALL amount of agro tranfered, if you keep in mind how much agro we are actually creating and how much of this would still be on our side. This is especially hard for warlocks, as we are more of an AoE class...3% is just a punsch in the face of every sorc...And yes, I knew that it would be 3%, but I thought that it would be 3% at the lvl the spells get intoduced first to the classes as app 1 version and not the T7 M1 version...
Message Edited by CalypsoCGN on 09-03-2006 08:08 AM
Message Edited by CalypsoCGN on 09-03-2006 08:11 AM
First sorry about aggro radius meant AoE, fixed that.
Next, either tell your MT to spam aoe taunts so you can go all out (which I doubt he will), or you can monitor what you spam on multiple mobs. I have been raiding for a bit now and usually every time a wizzy or warlock die it is because they 1) do not know what aggro control is 2) hit fusion ASAP 3) newb, see #1
Here is something for you to look @:
First, the MT spams all taunts.. thats their job, but the timer on the aoe taunt is 30 seconds or so isnt it? you're a monk, you should know how much you suck at holding aggro.If you ahve been raiding for a little bit now and notice the wizard and warlock are dieing without being #1 on the parse, then you are already seeing our problem. Pet classes can out parse us without worrying about aggro because they split it with their pets. The scouts can go nuts because they either have major hate dumps or deaggro skills. The sorcerors are truely glass cannons. We can't even do moderate dps without pulling aggro unless we have 3-4 other classes helping us with aggro.I as a warlock am dead at aound 800dps without at least a troub with me and a dirge with the mt. add a swash to the mt, and a coercer's harmonious link on my end and i can maybe do 1200-1400, but only with a troub and coercer in my group, and a dirge, swash, and coercer/assassin in the MT group can i approach 2000dps. We are at the mercy of oter classes in ways a monk can't understand, and our potential is wasted because they haven't the skills to handle our dps. We need a tool to reduce the strain on the rest of the raid while increasing it's efficiency. We need 10% on the new spell lines, minimum, and we need the aggro transfer to work on whoever we cast it on so that all sorcerors on the raid can actually benefit from it. Or, make it 30% but group only so a warlock can jump into the MT group and all sorcerors will still feel the benefit.As for your fun picture, jack is a swash, he could just use his threat position decrease combined with his FD aa and not get a scratch. Then again, with his hate transfer, he wouldn't pull aggro in the first place.

Jack is a pirate, so according to the ongoing argument pirate = Brig.Next it has been proven that 1 point of dmg = 1 point of hate. Now having said this, I still make the top of the dps parses and I do not die every other pull. It is all about control, using debuffs etc at certain times. Sure you have a lot of aoe spells, just use them wisely, the game isn't about who parses the best, raiding is about choosing the objective, pwning it and getting phat lewts. You can do this better by controlling the situation through knowledge and proper spell usage, just as every other dps'er without aggro transfer/reduction does.

Groovyjive · 09-04-2006, 01:57 AM

My 2 cents.

Even skilled warlocks are drawing too much aggro. They need a hate transfer. It does not have to be such that skill becomes mute, but clearly they need a little something.

BSbon · 09-04-2006, 02:27 AM

my level 39 ranger passive deaggro is 39% at M1

QQ-Fatman · 09-04-2006, 12:00 PM

KazzySoJazzy wrote:

Dragonrealms wrote:
I have to agree that 3% is way weak.. I mean a lvl like 10 assassin (prolyl not even 10 I forget what lvl my assassin was when I got the spell) can transfer 5% at APP1.. 10% at m1.. soo a lvl 10 assassin can transfer more hate at app1 than a lvl 70 sorc can at m1? there's something really screwy there.. the sorcs should at the very very least get 10% imo

Be lucky you get a hate transfer at all

I think they should let you people keep dying because you do not know what aggro control means.

press press press fusion click click click, oh man my mommy just called dinner <----- the life of a wizzy

LOL
you might wanna suggest soe take away scouts' passive aggro reduction / aggro trasnfer so they doont "press press press click click click" and do 1.5 times wizard's dps -_-

KazzySoJaz · 09-04-2006, 04:05 PM

QQFatman wrote:

LOLyou might wanna suggest soe take away scouts' passive aggro reduction / aggro trasnfer so they doont "press press press click click click" and do 1.5 times wizard's dps -_-

Sounds like someone wished they rolled a scout class.

CalypsoCGN · 09-04-2006, 04:44 PM

Kazzy, it seems to be totally useless to talk with you about this issue, as it seems you don't have any experience with the problem...it seems you haven't ever played a sorc class near the endgame or been raiding with one yourselfe. Therefore you don't have any clue what we are talking about...you just see sorcerers drawing agro and think that we just have to be more carefull...well...we are carefull, but one crit apocalypse can be enough to draw agro in an AoE encounter.Why shouldn't we get a usefull deagro-tool, if we are supposed to be be as high in the parses as asassins, brigs, conjurors necros and so on??? No raidleader wants a sorc that only does half the damage they can, just because they hold back in order not to draw agro...very useless point of yours...Since LU13 Warlocks have suffered from their heavy damage AoE spells and nothing has been done that would solve this issue. Now we get the change to get a usefull tool to de-agro ourselves a bit better and all of a sudden ppl that have never played a sorc class end-game wise come to the threads and complain about this...lol...get real!! If scouts are allowed to de-agro themselfes in such big ammounts then we should be able to do the same!!!! Afterall the scouts would have the same problem that we have, if they wouldn't have such de-agro potential!! And guess what they would cry for then... A tool like this with 10% - 15% de-agro wouldn't be overpowered!Bottom line is...don't bring anything to the boards, if you don't have a clue of what the toppic actually is about...you haven't experienced these things, so you can't say, what we need or should get.And just for the record, I am able not to draw agro and parse 2.5k in certain situations. I even out-dps our assasin from time to time...it all depends what you are fighting! But sorceres shouldn't be in the need of certain classes to get to their full potential!!! We should be able to handle these high numbers with our own agro tools, just as some scouts can!

08-30-2006, 06:51 AM	#3
silentpsycho Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 636	Patrix513 wrote: its been stated by a few people that the transfer is 3% at M1 for the T7 version of the spell. Why not 30% to match scouts? __________________ Fyste, 74 Bruiser \| Dyre, 72 Assasin \| Locus 73 Defiler \| Keanu 70 Fury \| etc. {Nagafen} Bruisers... steadily taking up the rear end since LU24 --- say NO to FD NERF 2007

08-30-2006, 05:22 PM	#9
EtoilePirate Tester Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 1,258	Tirga wrote: it's been brough up many times. It's not "scouts" as far as I know it's Swashies and maybe Brigands... At Adept III, Assassins get a transfer that takes 26% of the threat they generate and dumps it on the player on whom the buff is placed. There are also two "de-taunts" that simply reduce the Assassin's threat. With judicious use of those three CAs, it's true that a good assassin can almost always avoid stealing aggro. Given how they're designed towards spike DPS though (thinking of Decapitate, for example), it'd be all aggro all the time without those. I will say that the biggest aggro magnets I've ever seen or played with are Warlocks, though. And that's in the group of people I play with, all of whom are skilled players who know their classes and their duties. It probably wouldn't go amiss for them to be able to siphon off a little more threat. __________________ Kella The Mighty Pirate, Assassin & Tailor Nimari, Fury-at-Large Test Server

08-30-2006, 06:23 PM	#10
chOgg Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 111	EtoilePB wrote: Tirga wrote: it's been brough up many times. It's not "scouts" as far as I know it's Swashies and maybe Brigands... At Adept III, Assassins get a transfer that takes 26% of the threat they generate and dumps it on the player on whom the buff is placed. There are also two "de-taunts" that simply reduce the Assassin's threat. With judicious use of those three CAs, it's true that a good assassin can almost always avoid stealing aggro. Given how they're designed towards spike DPS though (thinking of Decapitate, for example), it'd be all aggro all the time without those. I will say that the biggest aggro magnets I've ever seen or played with are Warlocks, though. And that's in the group of people I play with, all of whom are skilled players who know their classes and their duties. It probably wouldn't go amiss for them to be able to siphon off a little more threat. Yeah, my fiancee is a warlock and wants me to scrap my bruiser for a paladin just because of the Amends line. I suggested she make a wizzie instead. We compromised by me getting an AE weapon and a bunch of AE achievement abilities and her nuking just a little bit less than she could.Thoral, 53 Bruiser, Mistmoore __________________ -------------------------------------------- ShakaCon, 80 Warlock, 80 Alchemist Mistmoore : Order of Honor --------------------------------------------

08-30-2006, 07:19 PM	#11
Iseabeil Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 661	silentpsycho wrote: Patrix513 wrote: its been stated by a few people that the transfer is 3% at M1 for the T7 version of the spell. Why not 30% to match scouts? Murderous Design at Master1 is 29%, Swarthy Disorder is at 27% at Master1 and both are group only, so suddenly wizard and warlock would go from having no hate transfer to having the best hate transfer in game and the ability to use it crossraid? Dun get me wrong, both these classes and warlocks in particular need some hate controll of their own, those kind of numbers would unbalance the present mechanics of the game to huge proportions. It would make sorcerors so overpowered in damage potential that the current issue between casters/melee would look silly not to mention what it would do to tanking and holding agro. 3% might be on weak side, but better upping it later then having to lower it, right? Message Edited by Iseabeil on 08-30-2006 08:21 AM __________________

08-31-2006, 07:53 AM	#12
Cowdenic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 492	Iseabeil wrote: silentpsycho wrote: Patrix513 wrote: its been stated by a few people that the transfer is 3% at M1 for the T7 version of the spell. Why not 30% to match scouts? Murderous Design at Master1 is 29%, Swarthy Disorder is at 27% at Master1 and both are group only, so suddenly wizard and warlock would go from having no hate transfer to having the best hate transfer in game and the ability to use it crossraid? Dun get me wrong, both these classes and warlocks in particular need some hate controll of their own, those kind of numbers would unbalance the present mechanics of the game to huge proportions. It would make sorcerors so overpowered in damage potential that the current issue between casters/melee would look silly not to mention what it would do to tanking and holding agro. 3% might be on weak side, but better upping it later then having to lower it, right? Message Edited by Iseabeil on 08-30-2006 08:21 AM Might be on the weak side? are you kidding? They could have it at 12% right now and I would say it is on the weak side. 3% is a joke. This needs to be upped. Bad. __________________ 70 Templar Befallen, Xlrate 70 Warlock Befallen, Boom 23 Swashbuckler Befallen, Dreadmore 18 Troubador Befallen, Xenus I am a M.O.F.O. Misfits of the Forgotten Order

08-26-2006, 07:10 PM	#1
K'aldar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 378	Just what the title says pretty much. I've looked everywhere here and can't find a post, so I was wondering if anyone on test could tell me what % of hate they transfer? Thanks in advance. __________________

08-26-2006, 08:02 PM	#2
Xede Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 198	its been stated by a few people that the transfer is 3% at M1 for the T7 version of the spell.

08-30-2006, 06:57 AM	#4
Tirga Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43	it's been brough up many times. It's not "scouts" as far as I know it's Swashies and maybe Brigands...

08-30-2006, 07:02 AM	#5
Gertack_v2 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 256	Tirga wrote: it's been brough up many times. It's not "scouts" as far as I know it's Swashies and maybe Brigands... Swashbucklers and Assassins. Rangers have a passive hate reduction buff.

08-30-2006, 11:01 AM	#6
EvG Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 22	With 30% hate reduction Warlocks would do the same damage assasins do now and that can not be :smileytongue:

08-30-2006, 12:01 PM	#7
Silphir Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 10	Brigands dont get any hate reduction. They get a 12% hate increase (Ad3) and in return AoE immunity

08-30-2006, 04:29 PM	#8
Captain Apple Darkberry Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 394	Silphir wrote:Brigands dont get any hate reduction. They get a 12% hate increase (Ad3) and in return AoE immunity You mean other than the Beffudle Adversaries...?

08-31-2006, 10:14 AM	#13
QQ-Fatman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 538	T7 M1 version = 3% hate transfer is an insult. It's "hey now you sorc have a hate transfer spell, stop whining." It needs to scale up and be at least 15%+ to make a difference in raids.

08-31-2006, 01:16 PM	#14
Sacra Magice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 146	3% completely sucks and is nearly useless. Compared to the 29% that assassins get 3% is insulting to sorcerers (that meaning you have the master I, adept III would be 2% haha). I guess that SOE do not want to give sorcerers a too good aggro transfer because of raiding situations... a lot of sorcerers transfering aggro to the main tank would mean the main tank not lossing aggro at all... But what about sorcerers that do not raid? 3% is useless to us... (it also is for raiding sorcerers, that for sure). My idea would be: Make that spells to be around 20% aggro transfer at least when used in your group while being a lower % if used in another group of a raid situation. So the descripcion would be somethink like: - Trasnfer 2x% of your thread to target. · If target is in your group. - Transfer x% of your thread to target. · If used outside your group.

08-31-2006, 01:36 PM	#15
Silphir Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 10	AngryWhiteDog wrote: Silphir wrote:Brigands dont get any hate reduction. They get a 12% hate increase (Ad3) and in return AoE immunity You mean other than the Beffudle Adversaries...? My bad...

09-01-2006, 01:49 AM	#16
IllusiveThoughts Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,311	Patrix513 wrote: its been stated by a few people that the transfer is 3% at M1 for the T7 version of the spell. it doesn't scale either, only the power proc portion even the lower level versions are only 3% hate trasfer at m1. and 2% at app4-adept 3. __________________ The wizards creed: __________________________________________________ _____________________________________ you will die, you will die often, you will die for no reason, you will die for a reason, you will die because soe wants you to die, did I mention you will die? Start getting used to it.

09-01-2006, 02:51 AM	#17
TheStateFish Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 153	The new warlock deaggro line doesn't stack with the wizard line from what i'm reading (the spell lines currently don't stack on live either), and with lets say an average of 6 sorcerors on a raid we would need 6 tanks to all benefit fully from the spell. It's a long night if there are 6 tanks doing their uber dps. Now if it would dump hate on anyone you cast it on, then we could at least dump our hate on the assassin and/or swash that are dumping hate on the MT for a total of 6-9% more hate to the tank. Not great, but more noticable than 3%, and all the rest of the sorcerors can get rid of an aditional 3% using the other scouts that can deaggro easily anyway. That said, master level should be at least 10% Edited for clarity. Message Edited by TheStateFish on 08-31-2006 03:55 PM __________________

09-01-2006, 06:50 PM	#18
Dragonreal General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,554	I have to agree that 3% is way weak.. I mean a lvl like 10 assassin (prolyl not even 10 I forget what lvl my assassin was when I got the spell) can transfer 5% at APP1.. 10% at m1.. soo a lvl 10 assassin can transfer more hate at app1 than a lvl 70 sorc can at m1? there's something really screwy there.. the sorcs should at the very very least get 10% imo

09-03-2006, 03:54 PM	#19
KazzySoJaz General Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Taxachusetts Posts: 213	Dragonrealms wrote: I have to agree that 3% is way weak.. I mean a lvl like 10 assassin (prolyl not even 10 I forget what lvl my assassin was when I got the spell) can transfer 5% at APP1.. 10% at m1.. soo a lvl 10 assassin can transfer more hate at app1 than a lvl 70 sorc can at m1? there's something really screwy there.. the sorcs should at the very very least get 10% imo Be lucky you get a hate transfer at all I think they should let you people keep dying because you do not know what aggro control means. press press press fusion click click click, oh man my mommy just called dinner <----- the life of a wizzy

09-03-2006, 05:08 PM	#20
CalypsoCGN Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 80	10% - 15% agro transfer wouldn't be overpowered for us warlocks!!! I guess even with these numbers I could easily draw agro, if I would go all out...all the people that say that we should be happy to have 3% have never played a warlock or even a wizzie to it's full potential / power I guess...Warlocks are an AoE based class, Assasins (for example) on the other hand more single target based...now guess who needs a better agro control...YOU can de-agro a lot and tranfer lots of your hate to the tank, but we create more overall "AoE-hate" on the encounters and should be happy with 3% that only 1, I repeat ONE, sorc can dump on the tank??? Hell no...face it...we need an agro control nearly as good as yours!!!! After all we should be in the T1 dps group as well...and it seems you only fear that we could get close to your parses, if we finally get a USEFULL de-agro tool!!10% -15% would be fine at T7 M1, otherwise the effect won't be noticable at all!!

09-03-2006, 05:50 PM	#21
KazzySoJaz General Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Taxachusetts Posts: 213	CalypsoCGN wrote: 10% - 15% agro transfer wouldn't be overpowered for us warlocks!!! I guess even with these numbers I could easily draw agro, if I would go all out...all the people that say that we should be happy to have 3% have never played a warlock or even a wizzie to it's full potential / power I guess... Warlocks are an AoE based class, Assasins (for example) on the other hand more single target based...now guess who needs a better agro control...YOU can de-agro a lot and tranfer lots of your hate to the tank, but we create more overall "AoE-hate" on the encounters and should be happy with 3% that only 1, I repeat ONE, sorc can dump on the tank??? Hell no...face it...we need an agro control nearly as good as yours!!!! After all we should be in the T1 dps group as well...and it seems you only fear that we could get close to your parses, if we finally get a USEFULL de-agro tool!! 10% -15% would be fine at T7 M1, otherwise the effect won't be noticable at all!! You should re-read it, it can be done cross raid on any fighter type, doesn't have to be main tank. EDIT Here is the exact quote: - Accord can be cast on a raid member. If they are a fighter, this transfers a *small* amount of the wizard's hate toward the fighter. Notice the small, if people would have read this a long time ago they would not have been surprised by the 3% hate transfer, which IMO is more than you should be getting, as you already can stand outside of AoE radius, meaning if you learned how to control your aggro you wouldn't die. That means any fighter class is fair game, but I suggest not putting it on a brawler as we already have enough issues of stealing aggro. 2nd Edit - changed aggro radius to AoE sorry meant AoE was tryign to work and post =P blah Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on 09-03-2006 06:55 AM Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on 09-03-2006 08:20 AM

09-03-2006, 07:06 PM	#22
CalypsoCGN Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 80	Outside of agro radius...you must be kidding me...have you ever played a sorc class in the end-game and not just grouped with them?????????????????????I don't think so, if you say that it is more than we should be getting!!!!!It doesn't matter where we stand...we can draw agro from all positions...And 10% would still be a SMALL amount of agro tranfered, if you keep in mind how much agro we are actually creating and how much of this would still be on our side. This is especially hard for warlocks, as we are more of an AoE class...3% is just a punsch in the face of every sorc...And yes, I knew that it would be 3%, but I thought that it would be 3% at the lvl the spells get intoduced first to the classes as app 1 version and not the T7 M1 version... Message Edited by CalypsoCGN on 09-03-2006 08:08 AM Message Edited by CalypsoCGN on 09-03-2006 08:11 AM

09-03-2006, 07:42 PM	#23
KazzySoJaz General Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Taxachusetts Posts: 213	CalypsoCGN wrote: Outside of agro radius...you must be kidding me...have you ever played a sorc class in the end-game and not just grouped with them????????????????????? I don't think so, if you say that it is more than we should be getting!!!!! It doesn't matter where we stand...we can draw agro from all positions... And 10% would still be a SMALL amount of agro tranfered, if you keep in mind how much agro we are actually creating and how much of this would still be on our side. This is especially hard for warlocks, as we are more of an AoE class... 3% is just a punsch in the face of every sorc... And yes, I knew that it would be 3%, but I thought that it would be 3% at the lvl the spells get intoduced first to the classes as app 1 version and not the T7 M1 version... Message Edited by CalypsoCGN on 09-03-2006 08:08 AM Message Edited by CalypsoCGN on 09-03-2006 08:11 AM First sorry about aggro radius meant AoE, fixed that. Next, either tell your MT to spam aoe taunts so you can go all out (which I doubt he will), or you can monitor what you spam on multiple mobs. I have been raiding for a bit now and usually every time a wizzy or warlock die it is because they 1) do not know what aggro control is 2) hit fusion ASAP 3) newb, see #1 Here is something for you to look @:

09-03-2006, 09:11 PM	#24
TheStateFish Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 153	KazzySoJazzy wrote: CalypsoCGN wrote: Outside of agro radius...you must be kidding me...have you ever played a sorc class in the end-game and not just grouped with them????????????????????? I don't think so, if you say that it is more than we should be getting!!!!! It doesn't matter where we stand...we can draw agro from all positions... And 10% would still be a SMALL amount of agro tranfered, if you keep in mind how much agro we are actually creating and how much of this would still be on our side. This is especially hard for warlocks, as we are more of an AoE class... 3% is just a punsch in the face of every sorc... And yes, I knew that it would be 3%, but I thought that it would be 3% at the lvl the spells get intoduced first to the classes as app 1 version and not the T7 M1 version... Message Edited by CalypsoCGN on 09-03-2006 08:08 AM Message Edited by CalypsoCGN on 09-03-2006 08:11 AM First sorry about aggro radius meant AoE, fixed that. Next, either tell your MT to spam aoe taunts so you can go all out (which I doubt he will), or you can monitor what you spam on multiple mobs. I have been raiding for a bit now and usually every time a wizzy or warlock die it is because they 1) do not know what aggro control is 2) hit fusion ASAP 3) newb, see #1 Here is something for you to look @: First, the MT spams all taunts.. thats their job, but the timer on the aoe taunt is 30 seconds or so isnt it? you're a monk, you should know how much you suck at holding aggro.If you ahve been raiding for a little bit now and notice the wizard and warlock are dieing without being #1 on the parse, then you are already seeing our problem. Pet classes can out parse us without worrying about aggro because they split it with their pets. The scouts can go nuts because they either have major hate dumps or deaggro skills. The sorcerors are truely glass cannons. We can't even do moderate dps without pulling aggro unless we have 3-4 other classes helping us with aggro.I as a warlock am dead at aound 800dps without at least a troub with me and a dirge with the mt. add a swash to the mt, and a coercer's harmonious link on my end and i can maybe do 1200-1400, but only with a troub and coercer in my group, and a dirge, swash, and coercer/assassin in the MT group can i approach 2000dps. We are at the mercy of oter classes in ways a monk can't understand, and our potential is wasted because they haven't the skills to handle our dps. We need a tool to reduce the strain on the rest of the raid while increasing it's efficiency. We need 10% on the new spell lines, minimum, and we need the aggro transfer to work on whoever we cast it on so that all sorcerors on the raid can actually benefit from it. Or, make it 30% but group only so a warlock can jump into the MT group and all sorcerors will still feel the benefit.As for your fun picture, jack is a swash, he could just use his threat position decrease combined with his FD aa and not get a scratch. Then again, with his hate transfer, he wouldn't pull aggro in the first place. __________________

09-04-2006, 01:10 AM	#25
KazzySoJaz General Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Taxachusetts Posts: 213	TheStateFish wrote: KazzySoJazzy wrote: CalypsoCGN wrote: Outside of agro radius...you must be kidding me...have you ever played a sorc class in the end-game and not just grouped with them?????????????????????I don't think so, if you say that it is more than we should be getting!!!!!It doesn't matter where we stand...we can draw agro from all positions...And 10% would still be a SMALL amount of agro tranfered, if you keep in mind how much agro we are actually creating and how much of this would still be on our side. This is especially hard for warlocks, as we are more of an AoE class...3% is just a punsch in the face of every sorc...And yes, I knew that it would be 3%, but I thought that it would be 3% at the lvl the spells get intoduced first to the classes as app 1 version and not the T7 M1 version... Message Edited by CalypsoCGN on 09-03-2006 08:08 AM Message Edited by CalypsoCGN on 09-03-2006 08:11 AM First sorry about aggro radius meant AoE, fixed that. Next, either tell your MT to spam aoe taunts so you can go all out (which I doubt he will), or you can monitor what you spam on multiple mobs. I have been raiding for a bit now and usually every time a wizzy or warlock die it is because they 1) do not know what aggro control is 2) hit fusion ASAP 3) newb, see #1 Here is something for you to look @: First, the MT spams all taunts.. thats their job, but the timer on the aoe taunt is 30 seconds or so isnt it? you're a monk, you should know how much you suck at holding aggro.If you ahve been raiding for a little bit now and notice the wizard and warlock are dieing without being #1 on the parse, then you are already seeing our problem. Pet classes can out parse us without worrying about aggro because they split it with their pets. The scouts can go nuts because they either have major hate dumps or deaggro skills. The sorcerors are truely glass cannons. We can't even do moderate dps without pulling aggro unless we have 3-4 other classes helping us with aggro.I as a warlock am dead at aound 800dps without at least a troub with me and a dirge with the mt. add a swash to the mt, and a coercer's harmonious link on my end and i can maybe do 1200-1400, but only with a troub and coercer in my group, and a dirge, swash, and coercer/assassin in the MT group can i approach 2000dps. We are at the mercy of oter classes in ways a monk can't understand, and our potential is wasted because they haven't the skills to handle our dps. We need a tool to reduce the strain on the rest of the raid while increasing it's efficiency. We need 10% on the new spell lines, minimum, and we need the aggro transfer to work on whoever we cast it on so that all sorcerors on the raid can actually benefit from it. Or, make it 30% but group only so a warlock can jump into the MT group and all sorcerors will still feel the benefit.As for your fun picture, jack is a swash, he could just use his threat position decrease combined with his FD aa and not get a scratch. Then again, with his hate transfer, he wouldn't pull aggro in the first place. Jack is a pirate, so according to the ongoing argument pirate = Brig.Next it has been proven that 1 point of dmg = 1 point of hate. Now having said this, I still make the top of the dps parses and I do not die every other pull. It is all about control, using debuffs etc at certain times. Sure you have a lot of aoe spells, just use them wisely, the game isn't about who parses the best, raiding is about choosing the objective, pwning it and getting phat lewts. You can do this better by controlling the situation through knowledge and proper spell usage, just as every other dps'er without aggro transfer/reduction does.

09-04-2006, 01:57 AM	#26
Groovyjive Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 6	My 2 cents. Even skilled warlocks are drawing too much aggro. They need a hate transfer. It does not have to be such that skill becomes mute, but clearly they need a little something.

09-04-2006, 02:27 AM	#27
BSbon General Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 605	my level 39 ranger passive deaggro is 39% at M1 __________________ Click Here for Amazing Superteam Comics updated Tuesday and Thursday " width="360" height="81">

09-04-2006, 12:00 PM	#28
QQ-Fatman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 538	KazzySoJazzy wrote: Dragonrealms wrote: I have to agree that 3% is way weak.. I mean a lvl like 10 assassin (prolyl not even 10 I forget what lvl my assassin was when I got the spell) can transfer 5% at APP1.. 10% at m1.. soo a lvl 10 assassin can transfer more hate at app1 than a lvl 70 sorc can at m1? there's something really screwy there.. the sorcs should at the very very least get 10% imo Be lucky you get a hate transfer at all I think they should let you people keep dying because you do not know what aggro control means. press press press fusion click click click, oh man my mommy just called dinner <----- the life of a wizzy LOL you might wanna suggest soe take away scouts' passive aggro reduction / aggro trasnfer so they doont "press press press click click click" and do 1.5 times wizard's dps -_-

09-04-2006, 04:05 PM	#29
KazzySoJaz General Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Taxachusetts Posts: 213	QQFatman wrote: LOLyou might wanna suggest soe take away scouts' passive aggro reduction / aggro trasnfer so they doont "press press press click click click" and do 1.5 times wizard's dps -_- Sounds like someone wished they rolled a scout class.

09-04-2006, 04:44 PM	#30
CalypsoCGN Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 80	Kazzy, it seems to be totally useless to talk with you about this issue, as it seems you don't have any experience with the problem...it seems you haven't ever played a sorc class near the endgame or been raiding with one yourselfe. Therefore you don't have any clue what we are talking about...you just see sorcerers drawing agro and think that we just have to be more carefull...well...we are carefull, but one crit apocalypse can be enough to draw agro in an AoE encounter.Why shouldn't we get a usefull deagro-tool, if we are supposed to be be as high in the parses as asassins, brigs, conjurors necros and so on??? No raidleader wants a sorc that only does half the damage they can, just because they hold back in order not to draw agro...very useless point of yours...Since LU13 Warlocks have suffered from their heavy damage AoE spells and nothing has been done that would solve this issue. Now we get the change to get a usefull tool to de-agro ourselves a bit better and all of a sudden ppl that have never played a sorc class end-game wise come to the threads and complain about this...lol...get real!! If scouts are allowed to de-agro themselfes in such big ammounts then we should be able to do the same!!!! Afterall the scouts would have the same problem that we have, if they wouldn't have such de-agro potential!! And guess what they would cry for then... A tool like this with 10% - 15% de-agro wouldn't be overpowered!Bottom line is...don't bring anything to the boards, if you don't have a clue of what the toppic actually is about...you haven't experienced these things, so you can't say, what we need or should get.And just for the record, I am able not to draw agro and parse 2.5k in certain situations. I even out-dps our assasin from time to time...it all depends what you are fighting! But sorceres shouldn't be in the need of certain classes to get to their full potential!!! We should be able to handle these high numbers with our own agro tools, just as some scouts can!