This in-game plat farming website spam has gotten out of control and I'm about to go ballistic - Page 7

Dasein · 08-08-2006, 10:18 PM

if someone sends a tell advertising for a plat-selling website, ban them immediately.

Ban them for what? They're not violating the EULA for merely sending a tell with information about the site.

Iglind · 08-08-2006, 11:04 PM

"Ban them for what? They're not violating the EULA for merely sending a tell with information about the site."They sure are, why dont you read the rules troll lord... :smileytongue:I just got another :smileymad: spam on one of my younger characters. :smileymad:

Message Edited by Iglindor on 08-08-2006 12:12 PM

Dasein · 08-09-2006, 01:10 AM

I have, and I don't see anything in the rules that specifically prohibits sending people tells advertising a website, even one that claims to sell plat.

Crytiana · 08-09-2006, 01:43 AM

grymmstone wrote:
That would be very detrimental to the game. Most of my dealings are on a trade system of coin for goods. I very rarely sell things through the broker.
One possible solution on the same line of thinking would be to make it impossible to mail coin to players. The Norrathian Express is the primary source of coin delivery to toons from Plat Sites. Non mail coin would still cause quite an uproar amongst the player base, and make it very difficult for players of opposing alignment to conduct business, not impossible however. One of my main sources of incomes before the inter-city mail delivery was good to evil courier services for peoples characters. I had forged many trade treaties with those of opposing faction during the first year of game play. Sadly that all went away.

But the broker is awesome.

mehtuus · 08-09-2006, 12:59 PM

Caswydian wrote:
I have [read the EULA], and I don't see anything in the rules that specifically prohibits sending people tells advertising a website, even one that claims to sell plat.

Cas, since you don't seem to understand the EQ2 EULA (or perhaps you simply have just missed it mixed in with all of the other text found there [quite probable]), here is the appropriate clip from the EULA which is found here: [ http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/support_article.vm?label=EQIIEULA ]9. You may not use any software to modify the Software to change Game play. You may not create, facilitate, host, link to or provide any other means through which the Game may be played by others, such as through server emulators. You may not decrypt or modify any data transmitted between client and server and you may not use, post, host or distribute macros, “bots” or other programs which would allow unattended game play or which otherwise impact game play. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure. Except in connection with Station Exchange and subject to all of the provisions of the Station Exchange Service Agreement, you may not buy, sell or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to buy, sell or auction) any Game account, characters, items, coin or copyrighted material or any other intellectual property owned or controlled by us or our licensors without first obtaining our express written permission.

Just to be very clear (not just for you, but for everyone that is reading this thread) the definition for facilitate (which can be found in your local dictionary or here [ http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGGL,GGGL:2006-15,GGGL:en&q=define%3Afacilitate ]) is:

make easier; "you could facilitate the process by sharing your knowledge"By advertising (through ingame tells or emails) their website that sells coin, they are facilitating their ability to others in the game. That IS a breach of the EULA and accourding to this:6. We may terminate this Agreement (including your Software license and your Account) and/or suspend your Account immediately and without notice: (i) if you violate any provision of this Agreement; (ii) infringe any third party intellectual property rights; (iii) if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide to us; (iv) upon game play, chat or any player activity whatsoever which we, in our sole discretion, determine is inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of the Game; (v) upon any violation of the Station Terms of Service and/or the Game Rules of Conduct and/or (vi) upon any violation of the Exchange Agreement. If we terminate this Agreement or suspend your Account under these circumstances, you will lose access to your Account for the duration of the suspension and/or the balance of any prepaid period without any refund. We may also terminate this Agreement if we decide, in our sole discretion, to discontinue offering the Game, in which case we may provide you with a prorated refund of any prepaid amounts.They, being SOE, have the right to IMMEDIATELY terminate any account for such a breach.

Dasein · 08-09-2006, 06:31 PM

When dealing with legal or quasi-legal documents like a EULA, dictionary deifntions are pretty much useless. Legal writing relies very heavily on stipulative definitions to avoid endless arguments over the meaning of words.

'Facilitate', in that context, is far too broad - one could facilitate sales by explaining how to use the in-game mail, for example.

Tirga · 08-09-2006, 08:23 PM

I was having a long conversation with some of my friends out-of-province about WoW and EQ2. They were trying to lure me over so I could keep in touch. Anyhow, eventually the topic of plat-sellers came up. They have a system that your chat is restricted on their 10 day free trial. You can't send tells. So I asked them, how would I find them or group with them or whatever. They said phone call or IM. On thinking about this, I think, why the heak wouldn't they do this with "Trial of the Isle"? Cause it's restricted to the Isle? (never tried it) Seems WoW has this prettymuch solved. Yes, there are a bijillion gold selling sites, but at least those don't intrude on the privacy of those playing the game, and at least if they wanna spam ya, they gotta pay their monthly fee.

quasigenx · 08-09-2006, 08:33 PM

Iglindor wrote:...remind everyone online that buying coins/characters/items with dollars outside of Station Exchange is against game rules, and a cause for account suspensions or permanent bans.

This is not enforced. I have yet to see one instance of a plat buyer being banned.

Dasein · 08-09-2006, 08:36 PM

This is not enforced. I have yet to see one instance of a plat buyer being banned.

How do you know who bought plat?

quasigenx · 08-09-2006, 08:56 PM

Caswydian wrote:
How do you know who bought plat?

I know people who have told me they bought plat. I can think of three off the top of my head. There are also 250 unique accounts in my guild, and AFAIK no one has left the guild due to an account ban. Granted, I don't know for sure anyone there has even bought plat, but I assume so.Have you ever seen a thread of someone complaining their account was banned? It would be locked, but we would still see it.

Message Edited by quasigenx on 08-09-2006 12:58 PM

Dasein · 08-09-2006, 09:23 PM

So you have no proof of a plat sale, and since there's no in-game mechanism for such sales (on non-Exchange servers), there's no way for SOE to conclusively prove that a plat transaction was the result of a sale out of game.

Pins · 08-09-2006, 09:42 PM

Caswydian wrote:So you have no proof of a plat sale, and since there's no in-game mechanism for such sales (on non-Exchange servers), there's no way for SOE to conclusively prove that a plat transaction was the result of a sale out of game.

SoE could buy some plat from the sellers, then when they get the plat they bought, ban the account who gave them the plat.

Dasein · 08-09-2006, 10:21 PM

That's easy enough to do - SOE wouldn't even need to buy the plat. However, that is only going after the sellers, not the buyers. The problem is, if I suddenly recieve 10plat in the mail, there's no way to prove I bought it.

ootpek · 08-09-2006, 10:23 PM

I got my FIRST tell yesterday in EQ2. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] they found me.In EQ1 I met, and befriended a 'Farmer' named Goober. He was an 18 year old kid in Latvia. His whole "JOB" was to stand in Plane of Tactics and try to get a couple named with his poorly equipped Druid which he had no clue how to play. He was paid $20 US on a GOOD day...a 20 hour workday of sitting in his kitchen on his computer and helped support his family. He'd try to solo mobs. he'd try to get into groups. He'd stand to the side as a group that was full took all 'his' names knowing that he wouldn't have $20 that day. His 'goal' in life was to soon run his OWN Plat Selling Website. Thats the real sad part here...somewhere in Latvia or China or somewhere...there's a Goober trying to survive the only way he can by scamming some cash out of lazy players with alot more money than he'll probably ever have.

quasigenx · 08-09-2006, 11:05 PM

Caswydian wrote:
...there's no way for SOE to conclusively prove that a plat transaction was the result of a sale out of game.

True. But I think that saying that they will ban people for buying plat is misleading. The fact is that they don't ban buyers. They might if they could prove it, but they can't, and don't.

mehtuus · 08-10-2006, 12:01 AM

Caswydian wrote:
When dealing with legal or quasi-legal documents like a EULA, dictionary deifntions are pretty much useless. Legal writing relies very heavily on stipulative definitions to avoid endless arguments over the meaning of words.
'Facilitate', in that context, is far too broad - one could facilitate sales by explaining how to use the in-game mail, for example.

Well, there you have it... When presented with facts Caswydian still tries to skirt the issue. Well if words don't mean what they mean anymore, what did I just say?? What did everybody just say? Sheesh...BTW, sending spamtells or spam emails, is totally different than "explaining how to use the in-game mail". It is not the simple act sending tells or email that is the breach, it is what is included within those tells or emails that (in this case) is a facilitation, as mentioned in the EULA.Troll Lord indeed...

Lera · 08-10-2006, 03:57 AM

Caswydian wrote:

Ban them for what? They're not violating the EULA for merely sending a tell with information about the site.

Easy way to fix that: get SOE's lawyers to add a sentence to the EULA prohibiting advertising websites that sell platinum, or whatever they want to ban people for. It's their game, and they have the right to ban people for pretty much anything they want. If they wanted to say that people with the letter "e" in their characters' names would be banned, they could do that, and there's not a thing we could do about it except quit sending them our $15 each month. I think the EULA does cover it - not that I've, like almost everyone else, has actually read the whole thing - but from the excerpt posted, there's a good argument they're facilitating it.It comes down to whether SOE is serious about banning spammers and plat sellers, or whether they're content to let it continue to avoid the expense of hiring people to deal with it.

grymmstone · 08-10-2006, 04:38 AM

Pinski wrote:

Caswydian wrote:
So you have no proof of a plat sale, and since there's no in-game mechanism for such sales (on non-Exchange servers), there's no way for SOE to conclusively prove that a plat transaction was the result of a sale out of game.

SoE could buy some plat from the sellers, then when they get the plat they bought, ban the account who gave them the plat.

I like it!!! Then some poor sot over at the Sony office would get banned for the illegal purchase or sale of duped plat!!!!!!! That would be just too hilarious.

Davus · 08-10-2006, 06:46 AM

I AGREE !! DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS PLEASE!!

Heck, you can call the phone number on their website and complain.

You can file reports against their domain for violating the "can spam" online act/law.

SOE. These are YOUR SERVERS, and YOUR CUSTOMERS you are about to loose over this.

You are letting those free accounts ruin those of your paying customers.

You are wasting your employees time (and your money) by having to look at all those hundreds and hundreds of petitions.

Oakum · 08-10-2006, 08:07 PM

grymmstone wrote:

Pinski wrote:

Caswydian wrote:
So you have no proof of a plat sale, and since there's no in-game mechanism for such sales (on non-Exchange servers), there's no way for SOE to conclusively prove that a plat transaction was the result of a sale out of game.

SoE could buy some plat from the sellers, then when they get the plat they bought, ban the account who gave them the plat.

I like it!!! Then some poor sot over at the Sony office would get banned for the illegal purchase or sale of duped plat!!!!!!! That would be just too hilarious.

Not to mention anyone the seller begged money off of on a newbie alt or bought something from them on the broker and so provided plat to the plat seller, and so on and so forth.

tashanin · 08-11-2006, 02:58 AM

I thought that they put something in LU26 to eliminate these /tells I'm getting about buying gold. I do a /who on them and find that they are Level 2!!! I guess this means that they have ... ready for this ... "Taken it to the next level!". I do hope that SOE's steps to rid us of this blight wasn't just to make it so a level one character couldn't send tells off the island, but a level 2 can. Sorry, but you sneeze in the isle and become level 2.~Gladius FrogitusGuardian of Divine AuraNajena

Dasein · 08-11-2006, 08:51 AM

Well if words don't mean what they mean anymore, what did I just say??

So you deny that legal documents make heavy use of stipulative definitions (to attempt) to avoid disputes over meaning? The fact is, words do, indeed mean what we want them to mean. Thus, words can mean many different things based on the context. Legal documents provide stipulative definitions to provide a common meaning for all those reading the document.

In the case of the EULA, 'facilitate' is open to interpretation as the EULA does not define facilitate within the context of the EULA.

mehtuus · 08-11-2006, 04:17 PM

Caswydian wrote:
Well if words don't mean what they mean anymore, what did I just say??
So you deny that legal documents make heavy use of stipulative definitions (to attempt) to avoid disputes over meaning? The fact is, words do, indeed mean what we want them to mean. Thus, words can mean many different things based on the context. Legal documents provide stipulative definitions to provide a common meaning for all those reading the document.
In the case of the EULA, 'facilitate' is open to interpretation as the EULA does not define facilitate within the context of the EULA.

Honestly, I understand what you are saying. Because that is exactly what I do in all of the contracts that I write. I like to make it beyond a shadow of a doubt, which I believe is what you are trying to say. Quite frankly, I am suprised that SOE doesn't have a *section* just for that purpose. They do some very minor explanations throughout the EULA, but not in the manner to which you and I are referring. It is my opinion and I believe yours, that SOE should add that *feature* to their EULA.For those reading this thread that are not familiar with what Caswydian and I are referring to, many contracts (all of the better ones anyways) contain a section (normally somewhere at the beginning) that lists all of the terms that the contract uses. Within that section the contract defines what those terms mean in relevance to the contract. And thus, all important terms that the contract uses will be specified within that section. Terms such as *facilitate*, which Caswydian so eloquently pointed out...However, I still stand by my previous post. SOE has the right to take action. Do to the manner in which it is written, making it try to mean something else in court would be a tough hair to split. To the spammers it would be the price of the game and maybe some play time that is lost, but to SOE it is their business that is (for lack of a better phrase) *on the dice table*... I'm just guessing here, but who do you think would be more willing to spend time in court - if it came down to that?Some might say that the *spammer's* business is also at stake too, but since their business is (with the spamming of SOE's customers and breaching SOE's terms) acting as a leach (not a symbiote) to SOE, then they are invalid. Yes that is my opinion. Note that I am not referring to other companies that are in operation, but are not spamming SOE's customers. They are outside of what I am specifically referring to in this thread.

Magic · 08-12-2006, 12:43 AM

One thing that I've noticed in the real world is that making something illegal doesn' t prevent people from doing it. Some people have the mentality that it's not illegal until they get caught. Others know that it's illegal but they take their chances. I hope that SOE does what it can for whatever good it will do.

Coca-Cola Driver · 08-12-2006, 09:58 AM

i get 4-5 a day as well and many times i get 2 from the same name within an hour or 2 different names within 5mins

keep them on the same server, but BLOCK tell's from the FREE trial offiers...

ive gone so far as looking them up, and found many account names all lvl 1 and one per server on there

one account 9 toons all lvl 1 at 9 servers

i sent soe the info and here it is 2weeks later and the account still there...

MMMmmm maby soe gets a kick back, i'm still getting tell's how about you

Erurat · 08-13-2006, 07:16 PM

Please DO something about this problem. I'm sick of getting tells almost daily offering to sell platinum. Recently I even received an ingame email. I have sent a copy of the screenshot of my mail however SoE seems to be doing nothing about this rampant problem. :smileymad:

Liol · 08-14-2006, 08:04 AM

I've been having ISP problems lately so I've been gone for about a week.But within ~15 minutes of getting back into eq2 I received a plat selling tell as well as a mail advertisement. :smileymad:Why the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] won't they do something about this already.

Saihung23 · 08-14-2006, 04:35 PM

This past weekend was horrible for most in my guild.

Saturday and Sunday we were peppered with tells...all day both days. All in all, I recieved myself probably only 4.

But from what I gather from my guildmates, we had recieved many many tells.

At one point I recieved tells from one, reported them, and not even a minute later get another...I cant report because of the limit of one report every five minutes.

I will say it again like others in here have said...

ISOLATE THE TRIAL!!

I personally have never known anyone from the game who has used it to communicate with prospective players. Never heard someone in game say, yeah...I have a buddy on the trial who might come over....I have to keep in touch with him.

Isolate it...if Joe Sixpack is on the Isle Trial and wants to communicate with his friend Bob Jones...there are ways you can implement a friend list...or trial tell authorized list....If Joe and Bob cant communicate outside this game in this day and age they should both be shot for being too stupid to live. Gee...emails, phone, im, smoke signals...they cant communicate what the name of Joe's trial character is.

Xile · 08-14-2006, 10:53 PM

I just read the first page but couldnt they buy plat from the website and when it gets delivered just zap the person with all the cash on them?

Liol · 08-15-2006, 08:22 PM

Last night was a three tell night. I don't see what is so hard about simply putting an option in persona--options to block tells from characters under level 10. That change alone will block most of the tell advertising.

08-08-2006, 10:18 PM	#181
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	if someone sends a tell advertising for a plat-selling website, ban them immediately. Ban them for what? They're not violating the EULA for merely sending a tell with information about the site. __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

08-09-2006, 01:10 AM	#183
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	I have, and I don't see anything in the rules that specifically prohibits sending people tells advertising a website, even one that claims to sell plat. __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

08-09-2006, 01:43 AM	#184
Crytiana Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4	grymmstone wrote: That would be very detrimental to the game. Most of my dealings are on a trade system of coin for goods. I very rarely sell things through the broker. One possible solution on the same line of thinking would be to make it impossible to mail coin to players. The Norrathian Express is the primary source of coin delivery to toons from Plat Sites. Non mail coin would still cause quite an uproar amongst the player base, and make it very difficult for players of opposing alignment to conduct business, not impossible however. One of my main sources of incomes before the inter-city mail delivery was good to evil courier services for peoples characters. I had forged many trade treaties with those of opposing faction during the first year of game play. Sadly that all went away. But the broker is awesome.

08-09-2006, 12:59 PM	#185
mehtuus Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 34	Caswydian wrote: I have [read the EULA], and I don't see anything in the rules that specifically prohibits sending people tells advertising a website, even one that claims to sell plat. Cas, since you don't seem to understand the EQ2 EULA (or perhaps you simply have just missed it mixed in with all of the other text found there [quite probable]), here is the appropriate clip from the EULA which is found here: [ http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/support_article.vm?label=EQIIEULA ]9. You may not use any software to modify the Software to change Game play. You may not create, facilitate, host, link to or provide any other means through which the Game may be played by others, such as through server emulators. You may not decrypt or modify any data transmitted between client and server and you may not use, post, host or distribute macros, “bots” or other programs which would allow unattended game play or which otherwise impact game play. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure. Except in connection with Station Exchange and subject to all of the provisions of the Station Exchange Service Agreement, you may not buy, sell or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to buy, sell or auction) any Game account, characters, items, coin or copyrighted material or any other intellectual property owned or controlled by us or our licensors without first obtaining our express written permission. Just to be very clear (not just for you, but for everyone that is reading this thread) the definition for facilitate (which can be found in your local dictionary or here [ http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGGL,GGGL:2006-15,GGGL:en&q=define%3Afacilitate ]) is: make easier; "you could facilitate the process by sharing your knowledge"By advertising (through ingame tells or emails) their website that sells coin, they are facilitating their ability to others in the game. That IS a breach of the EULA and accourding to this:6. We may terminate this Agreement (including your Software license and your Account) and/or suspend your Account immediately and without notice: (i) if you violate any provision of this Agreement; (ii) infringe any third party intellectual property rights; (iii) if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide to us; (iv) upon game play, chat or any player activity whatsoever which we, in our sole discretion, determine is inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of the Game; (v) upon any violation of the Station Terms of Service and/or the Game Rules of Conduct and/or (vi) upon any violation of the Exchange Agreement. If we terminate this Agreement or suspend your Account under these circumstances, you will lose access to your Account for the duration of the suspension and/or the balance of any prepaid period without any refund. We may also terminate this Agreement if we decide, in our sole discretion, to discontinue offering the Game, in which case we may provide you with a prorated refund of any prepaid amounts.They, being SOE, have the right to IMMEDIATELY terminate any account for such a breach. __________________

08-09-2006, 06:31 PM	#186
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	When dealing with legal or quasi-legal documents like a EULA, dictionary deifntions are pretty much useless. Legal writing relies very heavily on stipulative definitions to avoid endless arguments over the meaning of words. 'Facilitate', in that context, is far too broad - one could facilitate sales by explaining how to use the in-game mail, for example. __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

08-08-2006, 11:04 PM	#182
Iglind General Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 107	"Ban them for what? They're not violating the EULA for merely sending a tell with information about the site."They sure are, why dont you read the rules troll lord... :smileytongue:I just got another :smileymad: spam on one of my younger characters. :smileymad: Message Edited by Iglindor on 08-08-2006 12:12 PM

08-09-2006, 08:23 PM	#187
Tirga Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43	I was having a long conversation with some of my friends out-of-province about WoW and EQ2. They were trying to lure me over so I could keep in touch. Anyhow, eventually the topic of plat-sellers came up. They have a system that your chat is restricted on their 10 day free trial. You can't send tells. So I asked them, how would I find them or group with them or whatever. They said phone call or IM. On thinking about this, I think, why the heak wouldn't they do this with "Trial of the Isle"? Cause it's restricted to the Isle? (never tried it) Seems WoW has this prettymuch solved. Yes, there are a bijillion gold selling sites, but at least those don't intrude on the privacy of those playing the game, and at least if they wanna spam ya, they gotta pay their monthly fee.

08-09-2006, 08:33 PM	#188
quasigenx Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 400	Iglindor wrote:...remind everyone online that buying coins/characters/items with dollars outside of Station Exchange is against game rules, and a cause for account suspensions or permanent bans. This is not enforced. I have yet to see one instance of a plat buyer being banned. __________________

08-09-2006, 08:36 PM	#189
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	This is not enforced. I have yet to see one instance of a plat buyer being banned. How do you know who bought plat? __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

08-09-2006, 08:56 PM	#190
quasigenx Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 400	Caswydian wrote: How do you know who bought plat? I know people who have told me they bought plat. I can think of three off the top of my head. There are also 250 unique accounts in my guild, and AFAIK no one has left the guild due to an account ban. Granted, I don't know for sure anyone there has even bought plat, but I assume so.Have you ever seen a thread of someone complaining their account was banned? It would be locked, but we would still see it. Message Edited by quasigenx on 08-09-2006 12:58 PM __________________

08-09-2006, 09:23 PM	#191
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	So you have no proof of a plat sale, and since there's no in-game mechanism for such sales (on non-Exchange servers), there's no way for SOE to conclusively prove that a plat transaction was the result of a sale out of game. __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

08-09-2006, 09:42 PM	#192
Pins General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,040	Caswydian wrote:So you have no proof of a plat sale, and since there's no in-game mechanism for such sales (on non-Exchange servers), there's no way for SOE to conclusively prove that a plat transaction was the result of a sale out of game. SoE could buy some plat from the sellers, then when they get the plat they bought, ban the account who gave them the plat. __________________ Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest

08-09-2006, 10:21 PM	#193
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	That's easy enough to do - SOE wouldn't even need to buy the plat. However, that is only going after the sellers, not the buyers. The problem is, if I suddenly recieve 10plat in the mail, there's no way to prove I bought it. __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

08-09-2006, 10:23 PM	#194
ootpek Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 144	I got my FIRST tell yesterday in EQ2. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] they found me.In EQ1 I met, and befriended a 'Farmer' named Goober. He was an 18 year old kid in Latvia. His whole "JOB" was to stand in Plane of Tactics and try to get a couple named with his poorly equipped Druid which he had no clue how to play. He was paid $20 US on a GOOD day...a 20 hour workday of sitting in his kitchen on his computer and helped support his family. He'd try to solo mobs. he'd try to get into groups. He'd stand to the side as a group that was full took all 'his' names knowing that he wouldn't have $20 that day. His 'goal' in life was to soon run his OWN Plat Selling Website. Thats the real sad part here...somewhere in Latvia or China or somewhere...there's a Goober trying to survive the only way he can by scamming some cash out of lazy players with alot more money than he'll probably ever have.

08-09-2006, 11:05 PM	#195
quasigenx Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 400	Caswydian wrote: ...there's no way for SOE to conclusively prove that a plat transaction was the result of a sale out of game. True. But I think that saying that they will ban people for buying plat is misleading. The fact is that they don't ban buyers. They might if they could prove it, but they can't, and don't. __________________

08-10-2006, 12:01 AM	#196
mehtuus Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 34	Caswydian wrote: When dealing with legal or quasi-legal documents like a EULA, dictionary deifntions are pretty much useless. Legal writing relies very heavily on stipulative definitions to avoid endless arguments over the meaning of words. 'Facilitate', in that context, is far too broad - one could facilitate sales by explaining how to use the in-game mail, for example. Well, there you have it... When presented with facts Caswydian still tries to skirt the issue. Well if words don't mean what they mean anymore, what did I just say?? What did everybody just say? Sheesh...BTW, sending spamtells or spam emails, is totally different than "explaining how to use the in-game mail". It is not the simple act sending tells or email that is the breach, it is what is included within those tells or emails that (in this case) is a facilitation, as mentioned in the EULA.Troll Lord indeed... __________________

08-10-2006, 03:57 AM	#197
Lera Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 661	Caswydian wrote: Ban them for what? They're not violating the EULA for merely sending a tell with information about the site. Easy way to fix that: get SOE's lawyers to add a sentence to the EULA prohibiting advertising websites that sell platinum, or whatever they want to ban people for. It's their game, and they have the right to ban people for pretty much anything they want. If they wanted to say that people with the letter "e" in their characters' names would be banned, they could do that, and there's not a thing we could do about it except quit sending them our $15 each month. I think the EULA does cover it - not that I've, like almost everyone else, has actually read the whole thing - but from the excerpt posted, there's a good argument they're facilitating it.It comes down to whether SOE is serious about banning spammers and plat sellers, or whether they're content to let it continue to avoid the expense of hiring people to deal with it. __________________

08-10-2006, 04:38 AM	#198
grymmstone Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Location: Palm Springs, CA Posts: 142	Pinski wrote: Caswydian wrote: So you have no proof of a plat sale, and since there's no in-game mechanism for such sales (on non-Exchange servers), there's no way for SOE to conclusively prove that a plat transaction was the result of a sale out of game. SoE could buy some plat from the sellers, then when they get the plat they bought, ban the account who gave them the plat. I like it!!! Then some poor sot over at the Sony office would get banned for the illegal purchase or sale of duped plat!!!!!!! That would be just too hilarious. __________________

08-10-2006, 06:46 AM	#199
Davus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 72	I AGREE !! DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS PLEASE!! Heck, you can call the phone number on their website and complain. You can file reports against their domain for violating the "can spam" online act/law. SOE. These are YOUR SERVERS, and YOUR CUSTOMERS you are about to loose over this. You are letting those free accounts ruin those of your paying customers. You are wasting your employees time (and your money) by having to look at all those hundreds and hundreds of petitions.

08-10-2006, 08:07 PM	#200
Oakum Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,441	grymmstone wrote: Pinski wrote: Caswydian wrote: So you have no proof of a plat sale, and since there's no in-game mechanism for such sales (on non-Exchange servers), there's no way for SOE to conclusively prove that a plat transaction was the result of a sale out of game. SoE could buy some plat from the sellers, then when they get the plat they bought, ban the account who gave them the plat. I like it!!! Then some poor sot over at the Sony office would get banned for the illegal purchase or sale of duped plat!!!!!!! That would be just too hilarious. Not to mention anyone the seller begged money off of on a newbie alt or bought something from them on the broker and so provided plat to the plat seller, and so on and so forth. __________________

08-11-2006, 02:58 AM	#201
tashanin Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 44	I thought that they put something in LU26 to eliminate these /tells I'm getting about buying gold. I do a /who on them and find that they are Level 2!!! I guess this means that they have ... ready for this ... "Taken it to the next level!". I do hope that SOE's steps to rid us of this blight wasn't just to make it so a level one character couldn't send tells off the island, but a level 2 can. Sorry, but you sneeze in the isle and become level 2.~Gladius FrogitusGuardian of Divine AuraNajena

08-11-2006, 08:51 AM	#202
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	Well if words don't mean what they mean anymore, what did I just say?? So you deny that legal documents make heavy use of stipulative definitions (to attempt) to avoid disputes over meaning? The fact is, words do, indeed mean what we want them to mean. Thus, words can mean many different things based on the context. Legal documents provide stipulative definitions to provide a common meaning for all those reading the document. In the case of the EULA, 'facilitate' is open to interpretation as the EULA does not define facilitate within the context of the EULA. __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

08-11-2006, 04:17 PM	#203
mehtuus Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 34	Caswydian wrote: Well if words don't mean what they mean anymore, what did I just say?? So you deny that legal documents make heavy use of stipulative definitions (to attempt) to avoid disputes over meaning? The fact is, words do, indeed mean what we want them to mean. Thus, words can mean many different things based on the context. Legal documents provide stipulative definitions to provide a common meaning for all those reading the document. In the case of the EULA, 'facilitate' is open to interpretation as the EULA does not define facilitate within the context of the EULA. Honestly, I understand what you are saying. Because that is exactly what I do in all of the contracts that I write. I like to make it beyond a shadow of a doubt, which I believe is what you are trying to say. Quite frankly, I am suprised that SOE doesn't have a section just for that purpose. They do some very minor explanations throughout the EULA, but not in the manner to which you and I are referring. It is my opinion and I believe yours, that SOE should add that feature to their EULA.For those reading this thread that are not familiar with what Caswydian and I are referring to, many contracts (all of the better ones anyways) contain a section (normally somewhere at the beginning) that lists all of the terms that the contract uses. Within that section the contract defines what those terms mean in relevance to the contract. And thus, all important terms that the contract uses will be specified within that section. Terms such as facilitate, which Caswydian so eloquently pointed out...However, I still stand by my previous post. SOE has the right to take action. Do to the manner in which it is written, making it try to mean something else in court would be a tough hair to split. To the spammers it would be the price of the game and maybe some play time that is lost, but to SOE it is their business that is (for lack of a better phrase) on the dice table... I'm just guessing here, but who do you think would be more willing to spend time in court - if it came down to that?Some might say that the spammer's business is also at stake too, but since their business is (with the spamming of SOE's customers and breaching SOE's terms) acting as a leach (not a symbiote) to SOE, then they are invalid. Yes that is my opinion. Note that I am not referring to other companies that are in operation, but are not spamming SOE's customers. They are outside of what I am specifically referring to in this thread. __________________

08-12-2006, 12:43 AM	#204
Magic General Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: In front of my computer Posts: 359	One thing that I've noticed in the real world is that making something illegal doesn' t prevent people from doing it. Some people have the mentality that it's not illegal until they get caught. Others know that it's illegal but they take their chances. I hope that SOE does what it can for whatever good it will do. __________________ Soloist addicted to finding fabled gear.

08-12-2006, 09:58 AM	#205
Coca-Cola Driver Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 42	i get 4-5 a day as well and many times i get 2 from the same name within an hour or 2 different names within 5mins keep them on the same server, but BLOCK tell's from the FREE trial offiers... ive gone so far as looking them up, and found many account names all lvl 1 and one per server on there one account 9 toons all lvl 1 at 9 servers i sent soe the info and here it is 2weeks later and the account still there... MMMmmm maby soe gets a kick back, i'm still getting tell's how about you __________________ Bullman Founder of The Qeynos Elite Master of 10 Master Crafters Hall of Fame Winner

08-13-2006, 07:16 PM	#206
Erurat Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 81	Please DO something about this problem. I'm sick of getting tells almost daily offering to sell platinum. Recently I even received an ingame email. I have sent a copy of the screenshot of my mail however SoE seems to be doing nothing about this rampant problem. :smileymad: __________________

08-14-2006, 08:04 AM	#207
Liol Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 68	I've been having ISP problems lately so I've been gone for about a week.But within ~15 minutes of getting back into eq2 I received a plat selling tell as well as a mail advertisement. :smileymad:Why the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] won't they do something about this already.

08-14-2006, 04:35 PM	#208
Saihung23 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Delaware:Home of...Home of...we got stuff! Posts: 1,527	This past weekend was horrible for most in my guild. Saturday and Sunday we were peppered with tells...all day both days. All in all, I recieved myself probably only 4. But from what I gather from my guildmates, we had recieved many many tells. At one point I recieved tells from one, reported them, and not even a minute later get another...I cant report because of the limit of one report every five minutes. I will say it again like others in here have said... ISOLATE THE TRIAL!! I personally have never known anyone from the game who has used it to communicate with prospective players. Never heard someone in game say, yeah...I have a buddy on the trial who might come over....I have to keep in touch with him. Isolate it...if Joe Sixpack is on the Isle Trial and wants to communicate with his friend Bob Jones...there are ways you can implement a friend list...or trial tell authorized list....If Joe and Bob cant communicate outside this game in this day and age they should both be shot for being too stupid to live. Gee...emails, phone, im, smoke signals...they cant communicate what the name of Joe's trial character is. __________________

08-14-2006, 10:53 PM	#209
Xile Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 14	I just read the first page but couldnt they buy plat from the website and when it gets delivered just zap the person with all the cash on them? __________________ Entirin of Vox

08-15-2006, 08:22 PM	#210
Liol Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 68	Last night was a three tell night. I don't see what is so hard about simply putting an option in persona--options to block tells from characters under level 10. That change alone will block most of the tell advertising.