I tip my hat on the tradeskill revamp

[trenor]

I have to really give credit to where its due!  The tradeskillr revamp is in no other words perfect.  You took away all the ridicuousness of time sink from before and made it so i actually made my first ever tradeskiller and am starting to level him up on test (prior to revamp you had a better chance of seeing marr than me going there).  Excellent job!

 

Fizbang

[lubu1977]

all crafted items will be cheap due to overpopulated crafters.....Adventure will make even more money cuz crafted items are not so great due to resist removal, and it's just trivial to lvl up your tradeskills.  I recommend get out more to make money!

[Rastaah]

I'm not hearing good feedback from crafters on our crafting channel in game at all. There are a lot of, shall we say, expletives.Anyway good step at turning your game into a WOW game, bad step at impressing people who want something a little more challenging.

[valkyrja]

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Rastaah wrote:I'm not hearing good feedback from crafters on our crafting channel in game at all. There are a lot of, shall we say, expletives.Anyway good step at turning your game into a WOW game, bad step at impressing people who want something a little more challenging.

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If you consider mindlessly banging your keyboard for hours challenging, I'll agree with you the old system was challenging.  There has never been anything remotely resembeling a challenge when it comes to crafting.

[Drizztd]

I banged the keyboard a few times.......with my head cause i fell asleep crafting.

[Maroger]

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Rastaah wrote:
I'm not hearing good feedback from crafters on our crafting channel in game at all. There are a lot of, shall we say, expletives.

Anyway good step at turning your game into a WOW game, bad step at impressing people who want something a little more challenging.

---

Yes they certainly managed to kill crafting in this LU. I suspect that was their intention. SOE has never liked crafting and trade skilling and has always gone out of their way to KILL IT OFF under the guise of making if more easy to do. This is a well-known SOE ploy -- they probably used the same programmers from EQ1 that killed crafting there to bring the design over to kill crafing in EQ2.

[masakre]

I am a casual player and I more than welcome the tradeskill changes. I do not like what they have done to rare crafted armor and weapons though. What a way to kill those professions by only allowing them to make crap people won't buy.

[Naen]

I think this is a good change.There are going to be significant additions to the crafting system with the release of EoF and it makes sense to me to take out the tedious, time-sink aspects out of the system now so the kinks can be worked out for the release of the new tradeskills (i.e. Tinkering), new items (i.e. Cloaks) and new enhancements (i.e. Armor Reinforcements) coming out in November.Plus, from a game balance point of view, it seems to make sense when considering the changes to the broker system.I think everyone is going to see alot more variety of hand-crafted and the new "master-crafted" items on the broker, and all will benefit from this increase.Naenlvl 63 Rangerlvl 38 Woodworker

[Gungo]

The old crafting system was to boring. I will actually do the new crafting system. This way i cna finally do all those dang tradeskill quests they added =).

[taloron]

Yup  your point  is well thought  out. There will be more crafted items on the broker. Too bad they wont sell at all. From  a adventure standpoint  the crafted stuff si junk now. No one in there right mind will want it. The only stuff  that is worth it now is the rares that crafters can make and even those are pathetic next to most common npc drops in the wild. Good luck making any sort of money as a crafter after today. The only   things that will sell will be tools for harvesting, totems, poisons, and spells. I have a high lvl adventure and high lvl  jeweler and after changes I wouldnt be caught dead wearing any of the jewelery its all junk especially on a pvp server. So praise all you want about the changes but good luck selling anything besides whats mentioned above.  Oh and have fun adventuring also because these changes just made  contested and named camping even worse.

[Sunrayn]

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Naen wrote:
I think this is a good change.

There are going to be significant additions to the crafting system with the release of EoF and it makes sense to me to take out the tedious, time-sink aspects out of the system now so the kinks can be worked out for the release of the new tradeskills (i.e. Tinkering), new items (i.e. Cloaks) and new enhancements (i.e. Armor Reinforcements) coming out in November.


Naen
lvl 63 Ranger
lvl 38 Woodworker

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So you like having something taken away and then 'given' back to you for $39.99?  Nerf the hell out of crafted stuff then sell an expansion pack that gives some of the nerf back?

[Cynto]

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Sunrayn wrote:

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Naen wrote:
I think this is a good change.

There are going to be significant additions to the crafting system with the release of EoF and it makes sense to me to take out the tedious, time-sink aspects out of the system now so the kinks can be worked out for the release of the new tradeskills (i.e. Tinkering), new items (i.e. Cloaks) and new enhancements (i.e. Armor Reinforcements) coming out in November.


Naen
lvl 63 Ranger
lvl 38 Woodworker

---

So you like having something taken away and then 'given' back to you for $39.99?  Nerf the hell out of crafted stuff then sell an expansion pack that gives some of the nerf back?

---

Heh, yeah thats about it. Cept we will only get about 50% back at most of what they took, and odds are portions of the "enhancement" stuff will be usable by non crafters. For example, I fully expect that the Adornment system will not have anything to do with crafting. I could be proven wrong, but I doubt it.

Honestly I'm just glad that I started leveling up a Woodworker before the nerfs even showed up on test for my Armorers gear. At least now I've got something else I can sell. And hey, he can make harvesting tools now as well! Too bad I probably won't be using any of my armored stuff for any alt I level up, I can find better off trash mobs for a lot of it.

[Rast]

The biggest nerf in this LU isn't the weakened cobalt, it is the vendor resale price...  Everyone uses the vendor to sell off junk common builds, only now all you get is your fuel costs which FORCES the crafter to supplement the crafting though some other means.

They have made it a sideline, and taken away our playstyle

[thepriz]

I don't mind the no subcombine removal, the thing most people are complaining about is the fact that all the stuff we can make is worthless. This has hurt both the crafter and the consumer. You now can't get gear that you will like from a crafter. So you will turn to adventures with dropped loot. Which basicly makes crafters worthless. Not to mention as a crafter I can't sell my stuff back to a vendor for a little profit and I will not be able to make a profit selling it on the broker. I set my prices about 3 times the amount I can sell it to a vendor (which is a small profit compared to what others where asking) People are already underbidding what they can sell it to a merchant just to underbid the lowest price.So before you say you like the change altogether I would look at what they did to the products you can make....

[Gungo]

I think the removal of ressit potions and mitgation potions and dual stat potions was a good change. This encourages people to get ressit jewlery for certain raids. Dolls are still fine. Armour is fairly bad and wpns are quite useless. My guess is the adornment system will probably make crafted items decent again until dropepd items gain adornment slots. Personally i like tradeskilsl and adventuring to be sorta hand in hand. I like the tradeskill quests, i like the nest of the great egg tradeskill table and Dropped tradeskill components. It would be good if raids had this option as well. Instead of relic armour being brought to an NPC in Sol Eye. Maybe it should of been craftable. Although this idea would make relic either tradable OR require the person to be a crafter.  

[masakre]

i think the reason why Sony made it a no profit type of thing selling it to the npc was to take some of the money out of the game. If you just harvested and crafted all day you could make a profit without anyone else being involved. You could make a profit if you were the only one on the server. I think they wanted to try and "fix" the economy. I don't necesarily agree with it, but think that was the reason you only get the $ back you spent on fuels, and not the raws used. Raw's have no price associated to them at a vendor, so they want tradeskills to cost you money if you are just doing it for progression. I think this is in the hopes that it will slow down progression as you will lose money if you are just making and selling and not interacting with other players. Having to sell on broker in order to make money, and removal of alot of extra storage space for the broker, is another way to slow progression imo.

[Sunrayn]

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masakre wrote:
If you just harvested and crafted (adventured and killed mobs) all day you could make a profit without anyone else being involved. You could make a profit if you were the only one on the server........  if you are just making and selling (soloing and selling the drops) and not interacting with other players. 

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First, I apologize for butchering your post but, I wanted to point these two things out and change them a bit.

See how it works both ways? Dont see SOE nerfing mob drops any, do you?

 

*edit* Spelling 1 me 0

Message Edited by Sunrayn on 06-15-2006 04:22 PM

[Cynto]

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masakre wrote:
i think the reason why Sony made it a no profit type of thing selling it to the npc was to take some of the money out of the game. If you just harvested and crafted all day you could make a profit without anyone else being involved. You could make a profit if you were the only one on the server. I think they wanted to try and "fix" the economy. I don't necesarily agree with it, but think that was the reason you only get the $ back you spent on fuels, and not the raws used. Raw's have no price associated to them at a vendor, so they want tradeskills to cost you money if you are just doing it for progression. I think this is in the hopes that it will slow down progression as you will lose money if you are just making and selling and not interacting with other players. Having to sell on broker in order to make money, and removal of alot of extra storage space for the broker, is another way to slow progression imo.

---

Actually, some time back they changed it so that you got more than just fuel prices back. They made it so that you got compensated by a few silver for each raw you used in a recipie, and it made sense. If you honestly think me making a T7 recipie and getting 10s more back than the fuel cost me to make the item is going to make me rich or drastically inflate the economy then you're insane. I can walk into KoS, kill a few solo mobs and make 10 times the money in the same amount of time spent crafting and selling back with the old "money for harvests" sellback rate.

Also, it is not a money sink if they give us back all the money we spent on the fuel. It would, however, be a money sink if they gave us back LESS than the price it cost in fuels, but they know better than to do that.

Finally, if they are trying to slow the progression then why in the last 6 months have they perminantly doubled the exp gain per combine, and then streamlined the system to a point where there is very little time sink involved? Personally, I think they're just idiots, and they didn't think everything out all the way, just like their combat system that required LU 13, and the recent crafted item stat revamp due to poor itemization from T5 and up.

[AFBi]

Although I understand it will hurt the broker sales some and of course those folks who already have high skills, I don’t believe as many people will flood the broker.

Just keep telling people how horrible it is and that they wont make any money… that way they wont even bother trying.

If it were not for the forums I would not know how crappy everything was.

[colddog]

AFBill wrote:

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If it were not for the forums I would not know how crappy everything was.

---

 

It's amazing how the fun kind of gets taken out of games as you browse the forums of any mmo. I guess the sky is falling.

[Feydakeen]

I'm still in doubt a bit about the changes

 

I was an avid adventurer and stopped Tradeskilling at level 20 long time ago. I picked armoring up again when the new heritages required high level tradeskilling to complete it.

I recently dinged 50 with the old subcombine TS and although it can be boring and frustrating at times, the sense of achievement when you get the end product is enormous. The new system lacks that, although I must admit it goes very fast and requires less running around.

 

The new system feels just too much WoWy if you know what I mean...

[Shadus]

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sparql wrote:

If you consider mindlessly banging your keyboard for hours challenging, I'll agree with you the old system was challenging.  There has never been anything remotely resembeling a challenge when it comes to crafting.

---

personally, i'm going to really miss the old crafting and i'm really really [Removed for Content] off at the devs... it's reall bulls*** that they removed it.  How am i supposed to get to sleep now?  Anytime I had insomnia before I went and made a single piece of armor and after the 40 or so steps that takes and several hours i was dozing off at the keys, now I can't be bored out of my mind to the point of an insomnia cure... this is such a crap patch for tradeskills and insomniacs.  bs!  rollback!

[MasterYoda]

Simply put the changes took away from the players.  If there is supposed to be an improvement later with the next upgrade well they should have done it together.  This move by SOE alienates the crafting communittee and basically says to avid crafters that they don't care about us and have no value towards us even though we pay the same amount for our monthly subscription as everyone else.  SOE has saw fit to destroy a wonderful element of the game and turn their backs on thousands of players in the process all to bring in a system that spoils the challenge and pulls the rug out from under the aspirations of the players that enjoy meeting the challenges that they faced.

Rather than enhance and improve the game they have saw fit to steal it away from the players who are their paying subscribers.  This LU offers NOTHING for the players.

[Raahl]

Funny I see more and more of my guild crafting now.  Seems like the LU offers quite a bit for paying customers.

[Rast]

A few of mine do too...  and the first thing most of them have said after 5 minutes was...  It's too easy now.

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Raahl wrote:
Funny I see more and more of my guild crafting now.  Seems like the LU offers quite a bit for paying customers.

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[AaronSnow]

I agree with the OP. The new tradeskill system is perfect. A perfect piece of @@@@.

There used to be a time when you had to work with people to get anywhing done. Now that was a challange. And you know what, it was hard to make it to max lvl. 

Now the system is just too easy, and our products are worthless. So soon there will be a lot more lvl 70's with nothin to sell. 

Now I think they should work on the adventuring side, cuz it's a little too hard. I hate having to hit multiple buttons when in combat. I suggest all combat moves be narrowed down to 1 button. Please SOE implement this !  We need to get all the ADD kids to 70 as fast as possible, so they will get bored and go back to WoW.  

/rant off

[Mr_Gone76]

I for one am very happy about the change. I just came back to EQ2 after being gone for almost 6 months. I have a lvl 60 provisioner on the AB server, but I left that server to do pvp, plus most of my old guild went to pvp also. I havent gone back to crafting yet, and I know the market is gonna be more flooded. I think things will even out after awhile, the economy will balance itself. But the plus side is that my toon had reach lvl 20 and I was looking to get some t3 gear. My guild mate had me supply him with the raws and it only took him 15 - 20 minutes!!!! This made me so happy, becuase before I would have to put in an order and be told that the person would get around to it later, so I would have to go adventuring in crapy gear for another day or two, if not longer. This game is already so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] time consuming to begin with. I'm glad SOE has done somethings to make the game more "time friendly" i.e. removing shards, upping the rare drop rate from harvest nodes and removing shard retrieval from the game. Not everyone that enjoys this game has a lot of time to waste on doing these things.

[DeathRider69]

Well I looked at the thought of the changes I was mixed.  Now I am relatively happy.  Since they made the changes, I have bumped all of my toons to level 40 with all of the bonus from the recipe reset.  Granted 95% was vendor trashed for fuel, but I did get the level.  Sure they nerfed all of my armor wares, hosed up the woodworker recipes (though we did get the tools), dropped status reduction of carpenter wares to trivial, but all I am seeing as I have been crafting is a blast!They bumped up the rare pops as well as harvesting quantities.  Armorers now get a normal and imbued piece as well as 2 styles of armor.  Alchemists get robbed of most poisons, but I don't have to bribe jewelers to make glass for rare poisons / heals.  It is all a give and take.Poeple whine that the broker will be full and no one will buy the stuff.  Well if I bump a level tier, I am going looking for new armor and weapons.  I can buy the nostat junk in the cities, player made, or try to grind.   For me I am going to by the player made stuff.   It is not great, but better than the vendor stuff.  Plus from what I saw in T4, it all had the same stats for each piece on the buffs.  Thus I know I can at least increase a base amount.   Then add in that rares now drop faster with imbuing items at about 2 to 1 on other rares.  Thus with all of the craftings, I can now afford to get rare imbued armor at a reasonable price. Same goes for all of my other tiers.  The only thing I have found so far to be harded to find are the rare loams.  That is about it.  The main thing I do like is that now I do not have to spend 2 hours doing prep on items, I just make the dang things.  And to those who whine about the lack of proffit they think they see now...1. The prices of raws have dropped rapidly but I am also pulling 5x the amounts I did before.  Before I would sell a stack of teak for 50s each.  Now I sell them for 10s each but I am pulling 250 nodes + rares in the same or less time than before.  No net difference here...2. I used to spend 2 hours making subs for arrows to make a batch of 400-500 arrows.  Then spend another 1-2 hours making the final combines.  Now I crank out 25 ever 2 minutes.  Now i make around 600 arrows an hour.  They are now actually worth making and selling at just above fuel costs but less than the in-field ones sold on vendors.  As I see it this is a net gain.3. Armor...  Well we all know this is hosed...  But as I have said in other posts...  I will make X sets of the armor pieces and put them on the broker to sell.  Add in a few imbued pieces and go back to crafting.   Any normal armor that does not sell gets picked up and vendor trashed for fuel.   Any I sell is proffit.  Of coures all of that said, I never expected to make mounds of plat crafting.  I am a selfish SOB.  I craft to outfit my toons.  The wifey and I have the TS toons to cover all of our playable ones.  Sure I still have to grind for cash.  Big deal!   If done right in the right zones, you can really pull 100g / hour.  I picked up 2 scarab things in DOF that sold for 15g each.  That is 3 books and 100 fuel for one of my T5 crafters.  Add in all of the loot drops I broker and I am still doing well.I can still sell T4 boxes for 5-10g.  Get 1-2 gold on wolf totems and 10g on 200 status reduction paintings.If you hate it now, then leave.  For me it is MUCH better.  I get usable products versus tons of inventory clogging subs that I have to shuffle out to go harvesting or raiding.    Now I just need to grab 50 of each I need from the bank and grind out product.  Kind of a no-brainer to me now.  I am actually excited about TS again after major subs burnout. 

[ShallaBal]

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trenor wrote:

I have to really give credit to where its due!  The tradeskillr revamp is in no other words perfect.  You took away all the ridicuousness of time sink from before and made it so i actually made my first ever tradeskiller and am starting to level him up on test (prior to revamp you had a better chance of seeing marr than me going there).  Excellent job!

 

Fizbang

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Guys like you make the devs believe they really did a good job. If they had the balls to make a poll the results would be devastating. Hence no poll.

 

Sad thing is, in 2 weeks you will be bored to death with this new system and drop the ball on it. We can discuss this again in 2 weeks from now.

 

Shallabal

Nagafen - Solo - Weaponsmith 70

 

[BWLeeEllison]

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ShallaBal wrote:

---

trenor wrote:

I have to really give credit to where its due!  The tradeskillr revamp is in no other words perfect.  You took away all the ridicuousness of time sink from before and made it so i actually made my first ever tradeskiller and am starting to level him up on test (prior to revamp you had a better chance of seeing marr than me going there).  Excellent job!

 

Fizbang

---

Guys like you make the devs believe they really did a good job. If they had the balls to make a poll the results would be devastating. Hence no poll.

 

Sad thing is, in 2 weeks you will be bored to death with this new system and drop the ball on it. We can discuss this again in 2 weeks from now.

 

Shallabal                                   vvv

Nagafen - Solo - >>>Weaponsmith 70<<<

                             ^^^

 

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Personal bias.  Motion denied.  No further discussion is required or warranted.  The upgrades rule.

Change is painless; resistance to change . . . is not.

Translation:  Resistance is futile...you will be assimilated.

 

RAGE ON