Overnerfing of roots

curtlewis · 05-13-2006, 01:23 AM

Currently on tests, all my roots (wizard) have the durations reduced by 50% or more. This is supposedly a balance change for the reduction on breakage of 5%. 50% for 5%? Excuse me?This is incredibly excessive. I understand some reduction would be in order, but no less than 80% of their former value seems reasonable. Please reexamine the root duration changes and readjust them to more acceptable levels so that classes who rely on roots as their only means of defense can actually DEFEND themselves.

valkyrja · 05-13-2006, 01:26 AM

I have to agree that the duration changes are excessive. One thing that I would like to see if this makes it to live is that root upgrades increase the duration of the root.

Druzgotek · 05-13-2006, 01:47 AM

I think it is great roots got nerfed (even though my class has one too). To root a mob and kill it while rooted is just cheese and boring method. I can only guess people quit the game because they used this tactic and found it boring.

The real reason though must be that they are nerfing soloing all over. For example my solo is getting nerfed because my tank pet is having its ca nerfed, so it is only fair to make soloing for wizards harder too at the same time. Especially since now wizards will find groups even easier, because their group dps is not taking a huge dive, but necro's is, with the severe nerfs to the scout pet.

Thank you soe for keeping the playing field even!

Message Edited by Druzgotek on 05-12-2006 02:48 PM

valkyrja · 05-13-2006, 01:58 AM

Druzgotek wrote:

I think it is great roots got nerfed (even though my class has one too). To root a mob and kill it while rooted is just cheese and boring method. I can only guess people quit the game because they used this tactic and found it boring.

The real reason though must be that they are nerfing soloing all over. For example my solo is getting nerfed because my tank pet is having its ca nerfed, so it is only fair to make soloing for wizards harder too at the same time. Especially since now wizards will find groups even easier, because their group dps is not taking a huge dive, but necro's is, with the severe nerfs to the scout pet.

Thank you soe for keeping the playing field even!
Message Edited by Druzgotek on 05-12-2006 02:48 PM

Though even as a Wizard, I agree they needed some shortening, they have been made too short. The root is the basis of a sorcerors ability to solo. It is what we have instead of a pet. The only way to "Keep the playing field even" as you say would be to remove half of your pets HPs and decrease your heal abilities by 50%. At the level cap, it may not be too big of a deal, but look at the numbers as they currently are on testsingle root duration: (recast 6sec)1. arcane binding: 10sec2. manacles: 15sec3. tether: 20sec4. truss: 25sec5. shackle: 30sec group root: (recast 20sec)1. ring of cold: 12sec2. ring of ice: 15sec3. ring of frost: 18sec also group roots have a 18% chance to break on damage...Low level players get completely screwed by this. A 10 or 15 sec root with a 6sec recast? That is HORRIBLE, it is not fair by any means. They should decrease durations by 25% IMO, it would make things much more fair, while still allowing the solo player to actually live.And to say "To root a mob and kill it while rooted is just cheese and boring method" is foolish. Don't you realize this is exactly what you do with your pet?

Message Edited by sparql on 05-12-2006 04:59 PM

Druzgotek · 05-13-2006, 02:22 AM

sparql wrote:

Druzgotek wrote:

I think it is great roots got nerfed (even though my class has one too). To root a mob and kill it while rooted is just cheese and boring method. I can only guess people quit the game because they used this tactic and found it boring.

The real reason though must be that they are nerfing soloing all over. For example my solo is getting nerfed because my tank pet is having its ca nerfed, so it is only fair to make soloing for wizards harder too at the same time. Especially since now wizards will find groups even easier, because their group dps is not taking a huge dive, but necro's is, with the severe nerfs to the scout pet.

Thank you soe for keeping the playing field even!

Message Edited by Druzgotek on 05-12-2006 02:48 PM

Though even as a Wizard, I agree they needed some shortening, they have been made too short. The root is the basis of a sorcerors ability to solo. It is what we have instead of a pet. The only way to "Keep the playing field even" as you say would be to remove half of your pets HPs and decrease your heal abilities by 50%.

At the level cap, it may not be too big of a deal, but look at the numbers as they currently are on test

single root duration: (recast 6sec)
1. arcane binding: 10sec
2. manacles: 15sec
3. tether: 20sec
4. truss: 25sec
5. shackle: 30sec

group root: (recast 20sec)
1. ring of cold: 12sec
2. ring of ice: 15sec
3. ring of frost: 18sec
also group roots have a 18% chance to break on damage...

Low level players get completely screwed by this. A 10 or 15 sec root with a 6sec recast? That is HORRIBLE, it is not fair by any means.

They should decrease durations by 25% IMO, it would make things much more fair, while still allowing the solo player to actually live.

And to say "To root a mob and kill it while rooted is just cheese and boring method" is foolish. Don't you realize this is exactly what you do with your pet?

Message Edited by sparql on 05-12-2006 04:59 PM

They already nerfed my pet's health pool a while ago, as to heals, sure remove them all, I never use them, lol. They are pathetic, maybe give tank pet 3 percent health back. At least you have tier 1 dps to kill that mob fast, when I try to kill that mob fast, my pet loses aggro. (it will lose aggro even easier soon). I am sure you guys will be fine with short roots with your immense dps. And I fully support your motion to remove heals from necro! I would also suggest you make a necro and check out the heals instead of pretending to be an expert on the subject. Only time i use my heal, its the normal one, to heal some newbie that is about to die, and soemtiems on a tank if I am in group. I would not miss it at all.

Jida · 05-13-2006, 02:39 AM

sparql wrote:
Druzgotek wrote:

I think it is great roots got nerfed (even though my class has one too). To root a mob and kill it while rooted is just cheese and boring method. I can only guess people quit the game because they used this tactic and found it boring.

The real reason though must be that they are nerfing soloing all over. For example my solo is getting nerfed because my tank pet is having its ca nerfed, so it is only fair to make soloing for wizards harder too at the same time. Especially since now wizards will find groups even easier, because their group dps is not taking a huge dive, but necro's is, with the severe nerfs to the scout pet.

Thank you soe for keeping the playing field even!
Message Edited by Druzgotek on 05-12-2006 02:48 PM
Though even as a Wizard, I agree they needed some shortening, they have been made too short. The root is the basis of a sorcerors ability to solo. It is what we have instead of a pet. The only way to "Keep the playing field even" as you say would be to remove half of your pets HPs and decrease your heal abilities by 50%. At the level cap, it may not be too big of a deal, but look at the numbers as they currently are on testsingle root duration: (recast 6sec)1. arcane binding: 10sec2. manacles: 15sec3. tether: 20sec4. truss: 25sec5. shackle: 30sec group root: (recast 20sec)1. ring of cold: 12sec2. ring of ice: 15sec3. ring of frost: 18sec also group roots have a 18% chance to break on damage...Low level players get completely screwed by this. A 10 or 15 sec root with a 6sec recast? That is HORRIBLE, it is not fair by any means. They should decrease durations by 25% IMO, it would make things much more fair, while still allowing the solo player to actually live.And to say "To root a mob and kill it while rooted is just cheese and boring method" is foolish. Don't you realize this is exactly what you do with your pet?
Message Edited by sparql on 05-12-2006 04:59 PM

I serously doubt this will nerf soloing even conned no arrow mobs or yellow 1 up arrow mob.. but it will make soloing ^^^ yellow heroics a thing of the past or at least very hard.This is a long time coming and was needed IMO. Sorry guys... im getting nerfed alot too so dont worry SMILEY

valkyrja · 05-13-2006, 05:53 AM

I think you too both missed my point. I don't claim to know the specifics of a necro, I am more familiar with your goody counterpart. However, I am more concerned about how this will effect the low-end sorceror. I am fine with a 30 sec root, but giving low level sorcerors a 10 second root is just cruel. I play in a group about 90% of the time, so this won't effect me too much, but if you can't admit that lower players are going to be crippled by this, you're lying to yourself.

garamondeld · 05-13-2006, 06:32 AM

66 wizard here...

garamondeld · 05-13-2006, 06:42 AM

66 wizard here... If you think about it they really aren't affecting solo play in the mid to upper levels. How long does your mob actually stay rooted while you smack the crap out of it? 2-3 casts perhaps? which is by no means 20 -30 seconds. The shorter root duration simply effects our crowd control. That being said, I am very angry still that they are tampering with it anyway. I mean, whats the point? How is it unbalanced? If we want somthing rooted for 2 minutes then we can just recast over and over again. But is anyone really doing that? no! so lowering the timer on it really isn't going to do anything. How often do you cast on a mob during a root and have the whole duration of the spell last? It never happens, you end up chain casting both roots to keep it planted. Bottom line is that its not overpowered. It merely had the illusion of being overpowered. It won't be underpowered either when the change the timer, simply because root spells tend not to last their whole duration. That being said, why tamper with it in the first place? Well, after reading about all the nerfs that are comming in LU24 It dawned on me as to why. Its because they're not raising the level cap in the next expansion. Instead they're going to make the game harder so there will a slower progression to level 70. I really don't like the direction that this is going. Leave the root line alone, and raise the cap to 80 or higher.

justright · 05-13-2006, 09:33 AM

Maybe u didnt read the post. group root: (recast 20sec) 1. ring of cold: 12sec 2. ring of ice: 15sec 3. ring of frost: 18sec With this we cant keep mobs rooted longer. And to anyone claiming wizards are t1 dps. We never been there to start with.

Mage-Apprentice · 05-13-2006, 01:24 PM

A pure wite non arrow mob is the aim that evry class should be able to solo at a minimum, a root that is the only defense??? sorry that is absurd, I am a coercer and I do not know how many times I jusr tanked different kinds of solo mobs, let it hit me (because of my reactives) and chain nuked in the proces, I even can cast a 8 sec charm when a mob beats on me (not limited to non or down arrow mobs).

Focus and defense skills are a part of the mage ways to play, mine ar both maxed since launch, mitgration isn't that important, lamband imbued robed helps alot too though.

Root a solo mobs as long as you can, HO nuke it than tank it when needed, because with your nukes you can kill a solo mob alot faster than a coercer.

I know a coercer can charm, and let that pet tank, or stunn-root mobs, but it isn't needed, because tanking is possible!

Like a previous poster has said, it wont effect your solo ability at all

QQ-Fatman · 05-13-2006, 02:31 PM

The group root is seriously overnerfed. The duration is shorter than the recast! Now if this is changed to unbreakable like it used to be before Lu13, then it might be fine since we can use 100% of our dps beofer it expires so we have a chance to kill "solo" encounters with multiple mobs... but no, it has a 18% chance to break. Wizards are not tier1, far from it, when soloing because we have to keep rerooting and we can only use 1/3 of our spells (no DoT, no small-medium nukes, no debuff.) With this change, we'll have a very hard time soloing "solo" encounters with multiple mobs. When 2 or more mobs are hitting me, even if they're two arrows down, I probably wont have a chance to finish casting my 3-5sec cast time nukes.

If the group root duration is going to stay like this, at least the recast and mana cost need to be halved.

PIexor · 05-13-2006, 02:38 PM

Any mage who can't kil a no arrow solo mob in less then 20s is probaly using ap 1 spells, the root nerf is mostly bad for people who solo even con heroic nameds, but no real differnce for people who stick to the solo stuff.

Xarov · 05-13-2006, 04:05 PM

SoE makes no sense what so ever , they dumb down a game by removing access quests to 90% of the zones in this game yet they make soloing harder ? What are you trying to do force people to group for xp and money ? ( i am all for that but you should have done this IN THE BEGINNING NOT NOW ) I mean unless you love to harvest and or your a tradeskiller .

Doesnt matter to me really since im a raider and i hunt mainly with guildies when not raiding but im looking at the big picture, in one hand you WoWify this game but at the flip side of it you are making the game harder ?

SoE make up your mind already ? Are you trying to compete with WoW gameplay wise or are you trying to keep Risk vs Reward in this game ?

Message Edited by Xarovix on 05-13-2006 05:07 AM

Cowdenic · 05-13-2006, 06:30 PM

ahm, to make this fair, it would be the equivalent of having a 20% chance for a summoners pet to just lose agro and have the mob beat up on the conj/necro for a while. Sorcerers cannot cast Dots while they are soloing because they have a 15-18% chance to break root per tick. Between the root nerf for warlocks and the stun nerf for warlocks, warlocks are going to have a hard time soloing anything in the future. And yes my roots are masters so I cannot upgrade them any further.

The last thing the Sorcerer classes needed was a nerf. If anything they needed to be buffed. Unless of course, we are no longer making this a solo friendly game. If that is the case, then nerf roots away.

Shaihsar · 05-14-2006, 02:06 AM

honestly who cares if there shortened im constantly rerooting when soloing anyway its extremely rare a full root lasts its duration anyway -

Thunder Ro · 05-14-2006, 04:02 AM

The point is that in a mutli encounter situation our group root will run out before we can recast it. As for tanking I do not recommend that as a survival tactic for wizards, we are not supposed to have to do it.

If you want to nerf the duration of the group root, then please reduce the casting time on it as well so we at least stand a chance.

Cowdenic · 05-14-2006, 05:45 PM

fix the recast time on it also

Code2501 · 05-15-2006, 05:10 AM

I have only recently decided to start a new warlock, who is currently at lvl 19 so speaking from fresh experience here...

Reduction in root durations that low for a low tier warlock WILL impact my ability to solo EVEN CON solo mobs. Simple truth. That duration and recast time will essentially have me permanently tanking whilst soloing, the duration + recast gives me enough time to cast maybe 1 other spell, so it will be root + nuke + root + root + nuke + root + nuke.....sounds like fun hey? With some good equipment and all app4+ spells I will realisticly be dieing on about 30% of all EVEN CON solo encounters due to mob stuns/stiffles/interupts and old fashioned damage.

It that is what is intented then great, but don't pretend that this game is solo friendly, or easy to get into for a new player, cause below level 40 most of this game is solo out of necisity (population facts), making that even harder due to nerfs is just silly. If anything it should be the other way round, lower tiers should be easier than higher tiers to solo.

Some people post about sorcerors soloing yellow heroics... go make a new sorc, twink it even if you like... and you go and try to solo a yellow heroic anywhere upto level 30 then come back here and tell me how many times you died to get that kill...

The op are justified in there statement, this nerf is overboard and will dramaticaly reduce low level enjoyment.

Daxtyr_AnnonTuri · 05-15-2006, 05:51 AM

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA AA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/love iti hope every single wizzie remembers what i wrote about the DPS nerf to rangers ............. /suck an egg wizzies-Dax

Code2501 · 05-15-2006, 06:00 AM

Daxtyr_AnnonTuri wrote:

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA AA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/love it

i hope every single wizzie remembers what i wrote about the DPS nerf to rangers .............

/suck an egg wizzies

-Dax

*hands Dax his blankie

Now go to bed Dax, its past your bedtime and the adults are having an adult discusion.

Beghard · 05-15-2006, 09:01 AM

THX SOE! Now i can solo the Agressor in egg even better because the roots always broke befor its timer was out anyway.:smileyvery-happy:

Message Edited by Beghard on 05-14-2006 10:02 PM

IllusiveThoughts · 05-15-2006, 08:38 PM

Beghard wrote:
THX SOE! Now i can solo the Agressor in egg even better because the roots always broke befor its timer was out anyway.:smileyvery-happy:

Message Edited by Beghard on 05-14-2006 10:02 PM

people (wiz/warlock) are mostly complaining about the over nerf to the aoe group root.

a 5% chance LESS to break isn't going to change the root/nuking at all. thats still close enough to 20% chance (1-5 nukes) that will break the root.

The aoe group root which was what made the wizard powerful at lvl 40, is being nerfed to oblivion with a 10s duration 20s recast.

Any wizard who isn't currently t7 equipped (shackle and ring of ice ) is going to take one in the shorts.

The sad part is our group roots have gone through so many nerfs it just isn't funny.

lets review.

started as an unbreakable root prior to lu13. with a random duration based on mob's resistances. (most often expired 3-5s before full duration)

then changed in lu13 to breakable root in lu13 with a slow attached to it but still had increased duration (i'm pretty sure it was 40+seconds)

then a few LU's ago they nerfed all the aoe root durations down but lowered the recast to 10 seconds.

then since people were stacking both roots (according to devs too fast) they nerfed the recast to 20 seconds.

now they're nerfing the durations(60% reduction) to slower than the recasts. And justifying it by giving it a 2% chance less to break on dmg.

Will this affect my t7 wizard much? hell no. Will it [Removed for Content] off every t1-t6 wizard hell yes. quit messing with our roots.

baddog · 05-15-2006, 10:26 PM

IllusiveThoughts wrote:
lets review.

only an idiot would support a company with that track recordO'wait , I wear a pointy hat

Terabithi · 05-15-2006, 10:43 PM

well you wizzies could always re-roll a warden, and enjoy roots and elemental spells the way they were meant to be enjoyed. oops. did I say that out loud? *cough*

IllusiveThoughts · 05-16-2006, 01:04 AM

Terabithian wrote:
well you wizzies could always re-roll a warden, and enjoy roots and elemental spells the way they were meant to be enjoyed.

oops. did I say that out loud?

*cough*

I like a fury better, but with no root they are teh suck for soloing. warden + wizard is a good combo now. If they ever give furies a root fury + wiz will be a great combo.

as it stands soe is forcing to group with an enchanter so illus/coercer will be the optimum duo for any caster.

massem · 05-16-2006, 01:28 AM

Oops, shouldn't have written that - now Druid roots will have to be nerfed too :smileyhappy:

Ztrevco · 05-16-2006, 02:15 AM

I'm sorry i dont agree that the group root is a nerf. It sounds to me they are nerfing a root that is more of an illusionists job. Wizzies with group roots aren't wizzies they are called illusionits. If this is the case give illusionists a 9000 damage spell!!!

This whole thing goes back to the cross classing of all the classes and eventually leads to a generic character that can do everything that everyone else can do. The end result everyone is the same with the exception, I am called a wizard as opposed to a guardian or whatever you choose when you roll a new character.

If you want to root and nuke group mobs roll an illusionist and take your hit in the reduction of DPS. It's a trade off that makes each class different.

massem · 05-16-2006, 02:26 AM

Hehe, nice first post - a new troll is born every day :smileyhappy:

QQ-Fatman · 05-16-2006, 04:30 AM

Ztrevco wrote:

I'm sorry i dont agree that the group root is a nerf. It sounds to me they are nerfing a root that is more of an illusionists job. Wizzies with group roots aren't wizzies they are called illusionits. If this is the case give illusionists a 9000 damage spell!!!

This whole thing goes back to the cross classing of all the classes and eventually leads to a generic character that can do everything that everyone else can do. The end result everyone is the same with the exception, I am called a wizard as opposed to a guardian or whatever you choose when you roll a new character.

If you want to root and nuke group mobs roll an illusionist and take your hit in the reduction of DPS. It's a trade off that makes each class different.

ok.... so you're saying sorcerers should not be able to solo multiple mobs "solo" encounters? without an AE root, how are we going to solo it? chanters can ae mez, summoners have a pet to tank, sorcerers can... just give up? A white con vv (2 arrows down) mob can hit us for 300 dmg and stun / interrupt us easily. If there are 3 vv mobs hitting me, i wont be able to finish casting a spell (sorcerers spells have long cast timer) before i die.

05-13-2006, 01:26 AM	#2
valkyrja Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 559	I have to agree that the duration changes are excessive. One thing that I would like to see if this makes it to live is that root upgrades increase the duration of the root. __________________

05-13-2006, 01:47 AM	#3
Druzgotek Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 109	I think it is great roots got nerfed (even though my class has one too). To root a mob and kill it while rooted is just cheese and boring method. I can only guess people quit the game because they used this tactic and found it boring. The real reason though must be that they are nerfing soloing all over. For example my solo is getting nerfed because my tank pet is having its ca nerfed, so it is only fair to make soloing for wizards harder too at the same time. Especially since now wizards will find groups even easier, because their group dps is not taking a huge dive, but necro's is, with the severe nerfs to the scout pet. Thank you soe for keeping the playing field even! Message Edited by Druzgotek on 05-12-2006 02:48 PM __________________ * L80 Necromancer, Inquisitor, Bruiser, Berzerker, Defiler * * L80 Sage, Alchemist, Armorer, Jeweler, Tailor *

05-13-2006, 01:58 AM	#4
valkyrja Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 559	Druzgotek wrote: I think it is great roots got nerfed (even though my class has one too). To root a mob and kill it while rooted is just cheese and boring method. I can only guess people quit the game because they used this tactic and found it boring. The real reason though must be that they are nerfing soloing all over. For example my solo is getting nerfed because my tank pet is having its ca nerfed, so it is only fair to make soloing for wizards harder too at the same time. Especially since now wizards will find groups even easier, because their group dps is not taking a huge dive, but necro's is, with the severe nerfs to the scout pet. Thank you soe for keeping the playing field even! Message Edited by Druzgotek on 05-12-2006 02:48 PM Though even as a Wizard, I agree they needed some shortening, they have been made too short. The root is the basis of a sorcerors ability to solo. It is what we have instead of a pet. The only way to "Keep the playing field even" as you say would be to remove half of your pets HPs and decrease your heal abilities by 50%. At the level cap, it may not be too big of a deal, but look at the numbers as they currently are on testsingle root duration: (recast 6sec)1. arcane binding: 10sec2. manacles: 15sec3. tether: 20sec4. truss: 25sec5. shackle: 30sec group root: (recast 20sec)1. ring of cold: 12sec2. ring of ice: 15sec3. ring of frost: 18sec also group roots have a 18% chance to break on damage...Low level players get completely screwed by this. A 10 or 15 sec root with a 6sec recast? That is HORRIBLE, it is not fair by any means. They should decrease durations by 25% IMO, it would make things much more fair, while still allowing the solo player to actually live.And to say "To root a mob and kill it while rooted is just cheese and boring method" is foolish. Don't you realize this is exactly what you do with your pet? Message Edited by sparql on 05-12-2006 04:59 PM __________________

05-13-2006, 02:22 AM	#5
Druzgotek Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 109	sparql wrote: Druzgotek wrote: I think it is great roots got nerfed (even though my class has one too). To root a mob and kill it while rooted is just cheese and boring method. I can only guess people quit the game because they used this tactic and found it boring. The real reason though must be that they are nerfing soloing all over. For example my solo is getting nerfed because my tank pet is having its ca nerfed, so it is only fair to make soloing for wizards harder too at the same time. Especially since now wizards will find groups even easier, because their group dps is not taking a huge dive, but necro's is, with the severe nerfs to the scout pet. Thank you soe for keeping the playing field even! Message Edited by Druzgotek on 05-12-2006 02:48 PM Though even as a Wizard, I agree they needed some shortening, they have been made too short. The root is the basis of a sorcerors ability to solo. It is what we have instead of a pet. The only way to "Keep the playing field even" as you say would be to remove half of your pets HPs and decrease your heal abilities by 50%. At the level cap, it may not be too big of a deal, but look at the numbers as they currently are on test single root duration: (recast 6sec) 1. arcane binding: 10sec 2. manacles: 15sec 3. tether: 20sec 4. truss: 25sec 5. shackle: 30sec group root: (recast 20sec) 1. ring of cold: 12sec 2. ring of ice: 15sec 3. ring of frost: 18sec also group roots have a 18% chance to break on damage... Low level players get completely screwed by this. A 10 or 15 sec root with a 6sec recast? That is HORRIBLE, it is not fair by any means. They should decrease durations by 25% IMO, it would make things much more fair, while still allowing the solo player to actually live. And to say "To root a mob and kill it while rooted is just cheese and boring method" is foolish. Don't you realize this is exactly what you do with your pet? Message Edited by sparql on 05-12-2006 04:59 PM They already nerfed my pet's health pool a while ago, as to heals, sure remove them all, I never use them, lol. They are pathetic, maybe give tank pet 3 percent health back. At least you have tier 1 dps to kill that mob fast, when I try to kill that mob fast, my pet loses aggro. (it will lose aggro even easier soon). I am sure you guys will be fine with short roots with your immense dps. And I fully support your motion to remove heals from necro! I would also suggest you make a necro and check out the heals instead of pretending to be an expert on the subject. Only time i use my heal, its the normal one, to heal some newbie that is about to die, and soemtiems on a tank if I am in group. I would not miss it at all. __________________ * L80 Necromancer, Inquisitor, Bruiser, Berzerker, Defiler * * L80 Sage, Alchemist, Armorer, Jeweler, Tailor *

05-13-2006, 02:39 AM	#6
Jida Fansite Staff Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 849	sparql wrote: Druzgotek wrote: I think it is great roots got nerfed (even though my class has one too). To root a mob and kill it while rooted is just cheese and boring method. I can only guess people quit the game because they used this tactic and found it boring. The real reason though must be that they are nerfing soloing all over. For example my solo is getting nerfed because my tank pet is having its ca nerfed, so it is only fair to make soloing for wizards harder too at the same time. Especially since now wizards will find groups even easier, because their group dps is not taking a huge dive, but necro's is, with the severe nerfs to the scout pet. Thank you soe for keeping the playing field even! Message Edited by Druzgotek on 05-12-2006 02:48 PM Though even as a Wizard, I agree they needed some shortening, they have been made too short. The root is the basis of a sorcerors ability to solo. It is what we have instead of a pet. The only way to "Keep the playing field even" as you say would be to remove half of your pets HPs and decrease your heal abilities by 50%. At the level cap, it may not be too big of a deal, but look at the numbers as they currently are on testsingle root duration: (recast 6sec)1. arcane binding: 10sec2. manacles: 15sec3. tether: 20sec4. truss: 25sec5. shackle: 30sec group root: (recast 20sec)1. ring of cold: 12sec2. ring of ice: 15sec3. ring of frost: 18sec also group roots have a 18% chance to break on damage...Low level players get completely screwed by this. A 10 or 15 sec root with a 6sec recast? That is HORRIBLE, it is not fair by any means. They should decrease durations by 25% IMO, it would make things much more fair, while still allowing the solo player to actually live.And to say "To root a mob and kill it while rooted is just cheese and boring method" is foolish. Don't you realize this is exactly what you do with your pet? Message Edited by sparql on 05-12-2006 04:59 PM I serously doubt this will nerf soloing even conned no arrow mobs or yellow 1 up arrow mob.. but it will make soloing ^^^ yellow heroics a thing of the past or at least very hard.This is a long time coming and was needed IMO. Sorry guys... im getting nerfed alot too so dont worry __________________

05-13-2006, 01:23 AM	#1
curtlewis Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 246	Currently on tests, all my roots (wizard) have the durations reduced by 50% or more. This is supposedly a balance change for the reduction on breakage of 5%. 50% for 5%? Excuse me?This is incredibly excessive. I understand some reduction would be in order, but no less than 80% of their former value seems reasonable. Please reexamine the root duration changes and readjust them to more acceptable levels so that classes who rely on roots as their only means of defense can actually DEFEND themselves.

05-13-2006, 05:53 AM	#7
valkyrja Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 559	I think you too both missed my point. I don't claim to know the specifics of a necro, I am more familiar with your goody counterpart. However, I am more concerned about how this will effect the low-end sorceror. I am fine with a 30 sec root, but giving low level sorcerors a 10 second root is just cruel. I play in a group about 90% of the time, so this won't effect me too much, but if you can't admit that lower players are going to be crippled by this, you're lying to yourself. __________________

05-13-2006, 06:32 AM	#8
garamondeld Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 10	66 wizard here...

05-13-2006, 06:42 AM	#9
garamondeld Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 10	66 wizard here... If you think about it they really aren't affecting solo play in the mid to upper levels. How long does your mob actually stay rooted while you smack the crap out of it? 2-3 casts perhaps? which is by no means 20 -30 seconds. The shorter root duration simply effects our crowd control. That being said, I am very angry still that they are tampering with it anyway. I mean, whats the point? How is it unbalanced? If we want somthing rooted for 2 minutes then we can just recast over and over again. But is anyone really doing that? no! so lowering the timer on it really isn't going to do anything. How often do you cast on a mob during a root and have the whole duration of the spell last? It never happens, you end up chain casting both roots to keep it planted. Bottom line is that its not overpowered. It merely had the illusion of being overpowered. It won't be underpowered either when the change the timer, simply because root spells tend not to last their whole duration. That being said, why tamper with it in the first place? Well, after reading about all the nerfs that are comming in LU24 It dawned on me as to why. Its because they're not raising the level cap in the next expansion. Instead they're going to make the game harder so there will a slower progression to level 70. I really don't like the direction that this is going. Leave the root line alone, and raise the cap to 80 or higher.

05-13-2006, 09:33 AM	#10
justright Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 94	Maybe u didnt read the post. group root: (recast 20sec) 1. ring of cold: 12sec 2. ring of ice: 15sec 3. ring of frost: 18sec With this we cant keep mobs rooted longer. And to anyone claiming wizards are t1 dps. We never been there to start with.

05-13-2006, 01:24 PM	#11
Mage-Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 118	A pure wite non arrow mob is the aim that evry class should be able to solo at a minimum, a root that is the only defense??? sorry that is absurd, I am a coercer and I do not know how many times I jusr tanked different kinds of solo mobs, let it hit me (because of my reactives) and chain nuked in the proces, I even can cast a 8 sec charm when a mob beats on me (not limited to non or down arrow mobs). Focus and defense skills are a part of the mage ways to play, mine ar both maxed since launch, mitgration isn't that important, lamband imbued robed helps alot too though. Root a solo mobs as long as you can, HO nuke it than tank it when needed, because with your nukes you can kill a solo mob alot faster than a coercer. I know a coercer can charm, and let that pet tank, or stunn-root mobs, but it isn't needed, because tanking is possible! Like a previous poster has said, it wont effect your solo ability at all __________________ ************************************* VanguardFlames.com

05-13-2006, 02:31 PM	#12
QQ-Fatman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 538	The group root is seriously overnerfed. The duration is shorter than the recast! Now if this is changed to unbreakable like it used to be before Lu13, then it might be fine since we can use 100% of our dps beofer it expires so we have a chance to kill "solo" encounters with multiple mobs... but no, it has a 18% chance to break. Wizards are not tier1, far from it, when soloing because we have to keep rerooting and we can only use 1/3 of our spells (no DoT, no small-medium nukes, no debuff.) With this change, we'll have a very hard time soloing "solo" encounters with multiple mobs. When 2 or more mobs are hitting me, even if they're two arrows down, I probably wont have a chance to finish casting my 3-5sec cast time nukes. If the group root duration is going to stay like this, at least the recast and mana cost need to be halved.

05-13-2006, 02:38 PM	#13
PIexor Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 113	Any mage who can't kil a no arrow solo mob in less then 20s is probaly using ap 1 spells, the root nerf is mostly bad for people who solo even con heroic nameds, but no real differnce for people who stick to the solo stuff. __________________

05-13-2006, 04:05 PM	#14
Xarov Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 74	SoE makes no sense what so ever , they dumb down a game by removing access quests to 90% of the zones in this game yet they make soloing harder ? What are you trying to do force people to group for xp and money ? ( i am all for that but you should have done this IN THE BEGINNING NOT NOW ) I mean unless you love to harvest and or your a tradeskiller . Doesnt matter to me really since im a raider and i hunt mainly with guildies when not raiding but im looking at the big picture, in one hand you WoWify this game but at the flip side of it you are making the game harder ? SoE make up your mind already ? Are you trying to compete with WoW gameplay wise or are you trying to keep Risk vs Reward in this game ? Message Edited by Xarovix on 05-13-2006 05:07 AM __________________ Zesstra 70 Warlock ( retired ) Strykr 60 Berserker ( retired ) Halcyon Affinity for ever and im out ...

05-13-2006, 06:30 PM	#15
Cowdenic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 492	ahm, to make this fair, it would be the equivalent of having a 20% chance for a summoners pet to just lose agro and have the mob beat up on the conj/necro for a while. Sorcerers cannot cast Dots while they are soloing because they have a 15-18% chance to break root per tick. Between the root nerf for warlocks and the stun nerf for warlocks, warlocks are going to have a hard time soloing anything in the future. And yes my roots are masters so I cannot upgrade them any further. The last thing the Sorcerer classes needed was a nerf. If anything they needed to be buffed. Unless of course, we are no longer making this a solo friendly game. If that is the case, then nerf roots away. __________________ 70 Templar Befallen, Xlrate 70 Warlock Befallen, Boom 23 Swashbuckler Befallen, Dreadmore 18 Troubador Befallen, Xenus I am a M.O.F.O. Misfits of the Forgotten Order

05-14-2006, 02:06 AM	#16
Shaihsar Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 29	honestly who cares if there shortened im constantly rerooting when soloing anyway its extremely rare a full root lasts its duration anyway -

05-14-2006, 04:02 AM	#17
Thunder Ro General Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 30	The point is that in a mutli encounter situation our group root will run out before we can recast it. As for tanking I do not recommend that as a survival tactic for wizards, we are not supposed to have to do it. If you want to nerf the duration of the group root, then please reduce the casting time on it as well so we at least stand a chance. __________________

05-14-2006, 05:45 PM	#18
Cowdenic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 492	fix the recast time on it also __________________ 70 Templar Befallen, Xlrate 70 Warlock Befallen, Boom 23 Swashbuckler Befallen, Dreadmore 18 Troubador Befallen, Xenus I am a M.O.F.O. Misfits of the Forgotten Order

05-15-2006, 05:10 AM	#19
Code2501 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 165	I have only recently decided to start a new warlock, who is currently at lvl 19 so speaking from fresh experience here... Reduction in root durations that low for a low tier warlock WILL impact my ability to solo EVEN CON solo mobs. Simple truth. That duration and recast time will essentially have me permanently tanking whilst soloing, the duration + recast gives me enough time to cast maybe 1 other spell, so it will be root + nuke + root + root + nuke + root + nuke.....sounds like fun hey? With some good equipment and all app4+ spells I will realisticly be dieing on about 30% of all EVEN CON solo encounters due to mob stuns/stiffles/interupts and old fashioned damage. It that is what is intented then great, but don't pretend that this game is solo friendly, or easy to get into for a new player, cause below level 40 most of this game is solo out of necisity (population facts), making that even harder due to nerfs is just silly. If anything it should be the other way round, lower tiers should be easier than higher tiers to solo. Some people post about sorcerors soloing yellow heroics... go make a new sorc, twink it even if you like... and you go and try to solo a yellow heroic anywhere upto level 30 then come back here and tell me how many times you died to get that kill... The op are justified in there statement, this nerf is overboard and will dramaticaly reduce low level enjoyment.

05-15-2006, 05:51 AM	#20
Daxtyr_AnnonTuri Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 78	HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA AA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/love iti hope every single wizzie remembers what i wrote about the DPS nerf to rangers ............. /suck an egg wizzies-Dax __________________ I looked upon the face of pure evil ..... and then i noticed i was looking into a mirror and grinned at the thought of killing another wizard today ..... http://eq2players.station.sony.com/signature?characterId=312993102

05-15-2006, 06:00 AM	#21
Code2501 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 165	Daxtyr_AnnonTuri wrote: HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA AA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! /love it i hope every single wizzie remembers what i wrote about the DPS nerf to rangers ............. /suck an egg wizzies -Dax *hands Dax his blankie Now go to bed Dax, its past your bedtime and the adults are having an adult discusion.

05-15-2006, 09:01 AM	#22
Beghard Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 363	THX SOE! Now i can solo the Agressor in egg even better because the roots always broke befor its timer was out anyway.:smileyvery-happy: Message Edited by Beghard on 05-14-2006 10:02 PM __________________

05-15-2006, 08:38 PM	#23
IllusiveThoughts Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,311	Beghard wrote: THX SOE! Now i can solo the Agressor in egg even better because the roots always broke befor its timer was out anyway.:smileyvery-happy: Message Edited by Beghard on 05-14-2006 10:02 PM people (wiz/warlock) are mostly complaining about the over nerf to the aoe group root. a 5% chance LESS to break isn't going to change the root/nuking at all. thats still close enough to 20% chance (1-5 nukes) that will break the root. The aoe group root which was what made the wizard powerful at lvl 40, is being nerfed to oblivion with a 10s duration 20s recast. Any wizard who isn't currently t7 equipped (shackle and ring of ice ) is going to take one in the shorts. The sad part is our group roots have gone through so many nerfs it just isn't funny. lets review. started as an unbreakable root prior to lu13. with a random duration based on mob's resistances. (most often expired 3-5s before full duration) then changed in lu13 to breakable root in lu13 with a slow attached to it but still had increased duration (i'm pretty sure it was 40+seconds) then a few LU's ago they nerfed all the aoe root durations down but lowered the recast to 10 seconds. then since people were stacking both roots (according to devs too fast) they nerfed the recast to 20 seconds. now they're nerfing the durations(60% reduction) to slower than the recasts. And justifying it by giving it a 2% chance less to break on dmg. Will this affect my t7 wizard much? hell no. Will it [Removed for Content] off every t1-t6 wizard hell yes. quit messing with our roots. __________________ The wizards creed: __________________________________________________ _____________________________________ you will die, you will die often, you will die for no reason, you will die for a reason, you will die because soe wants you to die, did I mention you will die? Start getting used to it.

05-15-2006, 10:26 PM	#24
baddog Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 89	IllusiveThoughts wrote: lets review. only an idiot would support a company with that track recordO'wait , I wear a pointy hat

05-15-2006, 10:43 PM	#25
Terabithi General Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 67	well you wizzies could always re-roll a warden, and enjoy roots and elemental spells the way they were meant to be enjoyed. oops. did I say that out loud? cough __________________

05-16-2006, 01:04 AM	#26
IllusiveThoughts Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,311	Terabithian wrote: well you wizzies could always re-roll a warden, and enjoy roots and elemental spells the way they were meant to be enjoyed. oops. did I say that out loud? cough I like a fury better, but with no root they are teh suck for soloing. warden + wizard is a good combo now. If they ever give furies a root fury + wiz will be a great combo. as it stands soe is forcing to group with an enchanter so illus/coercer will be the optimum duo for any caster. __________________ The wizards creed: __________________________________________________ _____________________________________ you will die, you will die often, you will die for no reason, you will die for a reason, you will die because soe wants you to die, did I mention you will die? Start getting used to it.

05-16-2006, 01:28 AM	#27
massem Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 231	Oops, shouldn't have written that - now Druid roots will have to be nerfed too :smileyhappy:

05-16-2006, 02:15 AM	#28
Ztrevco Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 12	I'm sorry i dont agree that the group root is a nerf. It sounds to me they are nerfing a root that is more of an illusionists job. Wizzies with group roots aren't wizzies they are called illusionits. If this is the case give illusionists a 9000 damage spell!!! This whole thing goes back to the cross classing of all the classes and eventually leads to a generic character that can do everything that everyone else can do. The end result everyone is the same with the exception, I am called a wizard as opposed to a guardian or whatever you choose when you roll a new character. If you want to root and nuke group mobs roll an illusionist and take your hit in the reduction of DPS. It's a trade off that makes each class different.

05-16-2006, 02:26 AM	#29
massem Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 231	Hehe, nice first post - a new troll is born every day :smileyhappy:

05-16-2006, 04:30 AM	#30
QQ-Fatman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 538	Ztrevco wrote: I'm sorry i dont agree that the group root is a nerf. It sounds to me they are nerfing a root that is more of an illusionists job. Wizzies with group roots aren't wizzies they are called illusionits. If this is the case give illusionists a 9000 damage spell!!! This whole thing goes back to the cross classing of all the classes and eventually leads to a generic character that can do everything that everyone else can do. The end result everyone is the same with the exception, I am called a wizard as opposed to a guardian or whatever you choose when you roll a new character. If you want to root and nuke group mobs roll an illusionist and take your hit in the reduction of DPS. It's a trade off that makes each class different. ok.... so you're saying sorcerers should not be able to solo multiple mobs "solo" encounters? without an AE root, how are we going to solo it? chanters can ae mez, summoners have a pet to tank, sorcerers can... just give up? A white con vv (2 arrows down) mob can hit us for 300 dmg and stun / interrupt us easily. If there are 3 vv mobs hitting me, i wont be able to finish casting a spell (sorcerers spells have long cast timer) before i die.