Where is the Templar class to go now, with EQUAL HEALING and almost nothing else?

[Blast2hell]

---------------------------------------------------------

Eldarn wrote:

What kind of DPS are you talking here for the INQ, and what level? My friends lv 51 Inq does crap for damage, same ~100 dps as most other priests.

________________________________________-

at 51, in clefts of rujark killing epic X2 level 54 encounters,  Salastine the inquistor  did 200+ dps on almost every encounter, he was only rolling as a backup healer, parses showed he did about half the healing I did.   This was over a 5 hour period.   Although, I am a templar, so I haven't a clue as to what spells he was casting in what order or how.  But to this day he still does that sort of DPS if he doesn't have to roll as the main healer.

I will say that I've grouped with other inquistors and seen they don't do DPS as well, which leaves me to believe it's a skill/ability issue.

 

Message Edited by Blast2hell on 11-09-2005 04:36 PM

Message Edited by Blast2hell on 11-09-2005 04:36 PM

[adaman]

I agree with many of the opinions posted here. In 56 levels as templar I have never care about my dps and those long fight when soloing. I have chose to be an healer, my works is to heal, that's ok, worked fine for me.

 

However, I'd like to post some personal suggestion and considerations about our class...

 

We are Templar, we wear heavy armor. This means for me that we can better take a melee fight than other classes that cannot mitigate (without spells) melee damage. Maybe for this reason we have no good dps or stun utility, ok.

 

IMHO, it would be correct for a Templar to have:

 

- With damage spells we do always divine damage; the new Mark of ... is great, that's the way. But maybe is better to put on the effect some "increase mitigation vs physical damage" as it had before LU15

 

- For same reason, Sign of Infirmity too need a little improvment - not for healing power but in it's utility, such as "decrease physical mitigation of target" of target by a little or "decrease STR of target", as was before LU15.

Our only debuff for STR decreasing is only "weakness" (L7 spell... around -15 STR on target as adept III, that's useless)

 

- A group buffs that increase stats such STR and/or WIS (we are battle priest, why we have only a single target buff?)

 

- Add a "Increase mitigation of target vs physical damage" as before LU15 to Viglilant benediction

 

- We need another power that can decrease the hate toward us. Were 3 before LU15, now just 1. Decrease recast time of Harmony spell line or add some effects to exiting power.

 

- To equip a better version of shields can help when soloing (buckler is ridiculous... at least round and kite shield)

 

- Think to remove those useless stun powers (maybe changing them to a target buff that can stun target for 2/3 seconds when u are hit by...)

 

 

My consideration are not regarding "do more damage". Just to "fix" existing power to improve both our group/raid effectivitiness and our solo capability.

Message Edited by adaman on 11-10-2005 01:31 PM

[A]

Interesting.... But unless something REALLY insane has happened, like templars don't have reactives anymore, then I can't imagine templars being booted out of groups for another healer sub-class. Even after the patch, no healer heals like a templar. I'm sorry. There's no if, ands or buts.  I have yet to see any other healer heal 4k of damage from a group member in the matter of?  2-3 seconds.  Our reactives are our bread & butter (coupled with Atoning Fate...omg, what's the problem here, people!).  I think that, yes, other sub-class healers have much more utility (and now more healing)...but isn't that the point?  Shouldn't you choose classes for your group depending on the circumstances you're going to face?  I left the game 5 months ago.  At that time, my spot Greater Restoration Adept 3 did 948 hp heal....now, 1002-1294 (at level 50).  Should i complain??  most certainly NOT! A good warden, shaman, mystic, fury, etc are all very competent healers now.  And in the hands of a skilled player...an excellent complement to any group/raid. As they should be. 

[Daqrit]

I dont understand why healers are discussing DPS. Who cares about DPS being a healer...

Anyway to the OP. If you dont know where to go, come join the chanters in the UCA (Useless Class Anonymous) group. Our next meeting is this evening in Stonestairs at 8pm.

[bigmak20]

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Daqritox wrote:

I dont understand why healers are discussing DPS. Who cares about DPS being a healer...

Anyway to the OP. If you dont know where to go, come join the chanters in the UCA (Useless Class Anonymous) group. Our next meeting is this evening in Stonestairs at 8pm.

---

... because all healers have near equal healing and some healers have significant DPS and Utility in addition to healing while others do not -- i.e. it's terribly out of balance.

[Meribor]

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Daqritox wrote:

I dont understand why healers are discussing DPS. Who cares about DPS being a healer...

---

I don't care about DPS as a healer and I can still heal just fine ... what I do care about is the fact that I can no longer solo supposedly soloable quests and have fun doing it like I did before the combat update and that's assuming (huge assumption) I can solo them at all.  My tendency in mmorpg's has generally been caster first with healer alt ... this time I decided to go healer first with caster alt when I started EQ2 in July.  It was slow but I really, really enjoyed most aspects of my templar and decided to make her my main.  After the revamp, I finished a few of the quests that I could still finish and dinged level 31 then shelved my templar.  The longer it goes without something to bring the fun back for me on my templar, then the closer I'm coming to naming my necromancer my main.  I hate the fact that I am now ... not just some of the time but most of the time ... dependant on others for personal quests.  My understanding from what I've read on these forums is that high level templars have a lot fewer issues with the revamp than the lower level templars still trying to level, especially if they need to rely on pickup groups like I do.  In my opinion, the excessive interrupts, stuns, and fizzles are even more aggravating to me than my already low dps and are the biggest reason it's no longer fun to play my templar.

Message Edited by Meribor on 11-10-2005 07:40 AM

Message Edited by Meribor on 11-07-2005 07:41 AM

[steelblueangel]

My inquisitor is very cool to look at especially when she is sitting on her horse. But thats as good as it gets she looks good. I re-rolled another toon and only knock the dust off my inquisitor when I need to harvest. My inquisitor is a level 51 so she is able to harvest very well for my new toons trade skill items. I stopped playing her after update 13 when she was no longer fun to play anymore. My inquisitor is trivial at fizzle. She gets interrupted more than she cast. She heals like an grandma driving on a freeway .... very slowly.... by the time she gets off her biggest heal it's oops sorry u died but ... wait ... yeah I can rez u .... opps sorry.... I got interrupted and now Im dead too... My inquisitor is trival at shard recovery also. it became an easter egg hunt game before I quit playing her. Fighting solo to finish up minor quest took forever... swat... cast ... fizzle... fizzle... interrupt... cast... interrupt... interrupt... interupt.. swat... interrupt... interrupt...boring boring boring...yawn... yawn.. rinse, wash and repeat. Fights are forever because inquisitors take forever to .. well swat like a girl.. and then casting is so sloooow... the interrupts are annoying and deadly. So I dust her off now and then to forage or help a guildie other than that I play my new toon. Before its all said and done there will not be any Templers or Inquisitors in the game, most have already quit or rolled another toon like me. If i knew then what i know now I WOULD NEVER have made an inquisitor and I will never make a Templar thats for sure too.

Good luck fellow Templars and Inquisitors, my advice re-roll a toon. Nothing is going to change for our classes. Our classes are a phased out dead and forgotten class. There is alot to the game to enjoy and I am enjoying playing my new class. Yes I hated starting all over again but until another game comes out that I want to play online other than eq I'll stay. If another game comes out that I can enjoy I'll quickly pack my bags and be on my way. There are some new games coming online soon and I look forward to playing some of them.

Until then stay safe .. fizzle,fizzle, SAFE.. interrrupt... interrupt.. IN YOUR...interrupt.. fizzle.. interrupt.. TRAVELS... lol wink : ) 

 

 

[Joos]

---

Meribor wrote:

---

Daqritox wrote:

I dont understand why healers are discussing DPS. Who cares about DPS being a healer...

---

I don't care about DPS as a healer and I can still heal just fine ... what I do care about is the fact that I can no longer solo supposedly soloable quests and have fun doing it like I did before the combat update and that's assuming (huge assumption) I can solo them at all. 

My tendency in mmorpg's has generally been caster first with healer alt ... this time I decided to go healer first with caster alt when I started EQ2 in July.  It was slow but I really, really enjoyed most aspects of my templar and decided to make her my main.  After the revamp, I finished a few of the quests that I could still finish and dinged level 31 then shelved my templar. 

The longer it goes without something to bring the fun back for me on my templar, then the closer I'm coming to naming my necromancer my main.  I hate the fact that I am now ... not just some of the time but most of the time ... dependant on others for personal quests.  My understanding from what I've read on these forums is that high level templars have a lot fewer issues with the revamp than the lower level templars still trying to level, especially if they need to rely on pickup groups like I do. 

In my opinion, the excessive interrupts, stuns, and fizzles are even more aggravating to me than my already low dps and are the biggest reason it's no longer fun to play my templar.

Message Edited by Meribor on 11-10-2005 07:40 AM

Message Edited by Meribor on 11-07-2005 07:41 AM

---

Meribor

 

My Inquisitor is 54 and I must admidt my quest entries are maxed because it takes so long to kill a mob. My ranger friend and I started doing some solo quests and he was giving me a hard time because I was only half way complete with one quest when he had finished 2 and logged out, not much fun there.

 

Joosul

[Cowdenic]

Well here on the home front I have just interviewed a Dev in training.

 

Mr. Developer what do you think of the issues brought up by the Templar community? "Well since none of us Developers that actually play EQ2 would ever play a Cleric class (when I could be playing WOW) your concerns really do not bother me. Now if they nerfed my Fury, well someone would be unemployed."

 

Et. Cetera,

 

I dont even have the heart anymore to complain. I rerolled a Fury and am looking forward to something new coming out. Lack of Dev Response here just kills me.

[Elda]

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Blast2hell wrote:

---------------------------------------------------------

Eldarn wrote:

What kind of DPS are you talking here for the INQ, and what level? My friends lv 51 Inq does crap for damage, same ~100 dps as most other priests.

________________________________________-

at 51, in clefts of rujark killing epic X2 level 54 encounters,  Salastine the inquistor  did 200+ dps on almost every encounter, he was only rolling as a backup healer, parses showed he did about half the healing I did.   This was over a 5 hour period.   Although, I am a templar, so I haven't a clue as to what spells he was casting in what order or how.  But to this day he still does that sort of DPS if he doesn't have to roll as the main healer.

I will say that I've grouped with other inquistors and seen they don't do DPS as well, which leaves me to believe it's a skill/ability issue.

---

Last night my guild had its usual late night group: 52 defiler, 52 (he leveled) inquisitor, 54 templar 51 fury along w tank and a coercer (yeah, teh uber group makeup, we know). We ran around in shimmering citadel for over 2 hrs xping and doing some light questing. As usual i spent a good deal of the evening parsing.

 

I think I may have notied a trend in DPS for priests which some of you may be aware of. First of all, we took turns being the only healer for the group so that we could get some decent parses.

 

Now, of course, many of us slacked at times, and pulled like 25 dps....but on specific battles I asked people to push their DPS without using any of the 3-4 minute reuse special abilities. The results were a bit shocking. Many of these battles were in the towers, so lots of them were large groups.

 

On single target ^^^ heroics:

inq: 90 dps

temp: 90 dps

defiler: 120 dps

fury: 130 dps

guardian: 230 dps

 

On groups of 3 heroics

inq: 130 dps

temp: 120 dps

defiler: 70 dps

fury: 180 dps

guardian: 200 dps

 

On groups of ~5 heroics

inq: 150 dps

temp: 130 dps

defiler: 50 dps

fury: 250 dps

guardian: 170 dps

 

Essentially, as the groups got larger, the fury and the inquisitor did more and more damage, where as the guardian and the defiler got lower and lower. The temp didnt have the same boost in damage, but didnt drop down either. I don't know whats up with the guard, he probably had to spend more time getting agro i assume on larger groups....however as a defiler, i know why my output sucked. My largest nuke is for 230. Yep, im not lying. All of my damage comes from 6 weakish DOT spells. Most of these have a 2-3 second cast time....so in order to reach my damage potential i need about 14 seconds of casting DoT's on a target. Clearly, i dont get that 14 seconds when fighting a group of 3-4 heroics, they all die too fast, and i literally full burn cant output more than 60 dps in that situation.

 

You can also see that furies big numbers seem to come in the opposite situation, however when there are less and less mobs to kill, their long recast nukes end up keeping their DPS about as low as the other priests.

 

I'd say that my point here is that DPS number's don't exist in a vaccum.  Every class wants more DPS, sure, even defilers. I used to do 150-180 DPS at level 38 before the revamp...so I know how it feels to lose potency. But to compare DPS, at least use a fury's optimal (like in a 5 target situation) DPS to your optimal DPS (like against 3 undead targets).

 

Against a single target, I can out DPS you templars by a notable margin. Against a solo mob when i can get my procs to work and so on, I can get near 140 DPS. However in groups, pulls are as likely to be larger than just one, and i dont have enough time to get procs to work or stack 6 DoT's....especially on 2-3 targets. Generally, equal level templars outdamage me in groups, just because of how my spells work. I simply dont have the time to stack 6 spells while you guys can get some decent output by casting 2-3.

 

Yes, i still concede and agree that all priest classes should be able to do fury style damage when soloing. There's no reason that we shouldn't all pull at least 180-200 dps in the mid 50's....anything less is unfair...

 

However, in a group, I know that this doesnt matter. No one, and I mean no one, is inviting me to a group, or not inviting me for that matter because of my DPS. To be honest, i dont get invited to many groups, why?

 

Because IM THE ONE FORMING them, rather than sitting lfg worrying about where my next invite will be taken by a temp, who some people think can out heal me, or a fury, who some ppl can think can out DPS me. I form the group, i pick the spot, i invite who i want.

 

And i have easy pick from my templar, and fury friends, who sit LFG lots of the time, because they both get invited to groups at the same slow rate, each probably silently worrying about how the other is going to get picked because of ubbah DPS or ubbah healing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Elda]

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Daqritox wrote:

I dont understand why healers are discussing DPS. Who cares about DPS being a healer...

Anyway to the OP. If you dont know where to go, come join the chanters in the UCA (Useless Class Anonymous) group. Our next meeting is this evening in Stonestairs at 8pm.

---

Why do people post stuff like this?

Top 5 reasons to stop asking priests why they care about DPS:

 

5. sometimes you sit lfg for a long time without an invite, and so you end up soloing

4. sometimes your guild or friends aren't on to group with, and so you end up soloing

3. sometimes there aren't enough people on LFG to form a group with, and so you end up soloing

2. sometimes we want to play for 15-20 min....not enough time to meet up w a group, and so you end up soloing

 

and the number one reason priests need to DPS is......

 

1) BECAUSE 80% of quests in the game are SOLO...AND YOU END UP SOLOING!

 

thanks for playing

[Jida]

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Eldarn wrote:

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bigmak2010 wrote:

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Eldarn wrote:

i'm sorry, maybe i'm taking the flame-bait here, but....what's with all the templar angst?

1) OK, stop saying you're at the bottom of the DPS food chain. Have any of you actually grouped with a fury? they do like 150 dps on full burn versus your 120 or a defiler's 130 or an mystics 110, ITS NOT A BIG DIFFERENCE!. Please, check it out the facts in game before jumping on the complainer's bandwagon.

 

Yes, furies have a couple of big nukes....but the recast timers are super long. Look the spells up, do the math, or group with a fury. Either way, find out the truth.... over time they do like 20% more damage than you do. Furies do not do damage like a DPS class. If you're kicked from a group bc of a "DPS fury" your tank is a [Removed for Content]. Tell him to download EQ2parse and learn to read. Also, note that all priests suck hardcore in damage, not just you.

 

 

 

 

Message Edited by Eldarn on 11-08-2005 05:22 PM

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There's so much BS in this post but I'll just pick on the DPS.  Furies... 150 at full burn?  ROFL

What level?  10?

At 52 Fury at full burn is FIVE HUNDRED DPS using specials and THREE HUNDRED DPS not using those long recast specials.

At 53 Templar at full burn is SEVENTY TWO DPS -- and that , my friend. was the HIGH the average was mid 50 something.

:smileysurprised:

on edit:  Yeah; healing is good.  No complaints.  Healing is getting balanced.  That's fine and dandy.  Our "utility" is our 'special heals' and LU16 is addressing those to start making that viable.  Doesn't explain the big DPS disparity.  Doesn't explain why a fury can drop a mob in 24 secs and the best the templar can hope for is 75 secs.  etc

.. if, as a templar, all you do is group with decent DPS friends you are thinking "Templar is fine quit whining".  On the other hand, if you quest and solo and have actually observed the MASSIVE difference in time between how long it takes you vs. someone else... then you understand.  Or if you've been rejected from groups because the group wanted healing AND DPS so chose a Fury...etc.  A class dedicated to healing is only needed at one point in this game -- big nameds/raids.  That's the only time that extra few percent of healing from "utility" MIGHT make a difference.  So give us DPS equivalent to a Furies and shutup already. 

We have "equal but different" utility and "equal but different" healing.. WHERE THE HELL IS OUR DPS?

Message Edited by bigmak2010 on 11-09-2005 06:48 AM

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bigmak, do you even have a templar?

a 53 templar doing 72 dps? a fury doing 500 dps? ok, im coming back with parses later on tonight. You're talking about outlier battles; yeah on a group of 4 heroics ^'s a fury can do like 300 dps IF and only if the team is full of AoE'ers cause the fight lasts 15 seconds and all they have to do is cast one spell. Once the fight lasts for a reasonable amount of time, the DPS drops because of recast timers.

And now that you said a lv 53 templar does 72 dps i know you're just making numbers up. The templar i was referring to was 53, but even the lower level templar in our guild, 51 does 110 dps in a group.

Yes, on outlier battles, a low 50's fury can do high DPS. On single mob targets, the numbers i posted earlier are accurate. Can a fury solo faster, sure, 25-30% faster because of their DPS.

However, note that the nature of the argument has changed from "why are templars so useless" to "why do furies have so much dps"?

If you want a fury DPS nerf, call for it, don't complain that your class sucks in every way.

---

im 58 and the max dps i can do is 110. Full burn no healing on a blue ^^^ undead. If the mob is not undead max i can do is 80. I have multiple parses i can post showing a 58 fury doing 300+ dps with starfall and such against Yellow level 59-60 ^^^ Cyclops.

I perfer to be buffed for soloing.. in groups additional dps for templars is not needed so much IMO. But thats my opinion

Elder

[quasigenx]

46 Templar here.

• I have never been booted from a group for any reason.
• I can usually find a guild/random group (50/50) within 10 minutes.
• I think Templars are still the kings of healing, due to "utility" heal spells as another poster mentioned. I still routinely out-heal higher level non-Templars in parses. Those "utility" spells rock, use them.
• Prostrate is a great utility spell that most Templars think is useless. 5.5 second stuns can equate to 800-1000 (at my level) points of damage you don't have to heal.
• Our new mez line is very useful:
• In solo, if you are fighting more than one mob. Mez doesn't have to be up 100% of the time to mitigate a worth-while amount of damage.
• In groups, if you are fighting more than one mob. Most (good) groups focus on on mob at a time, and you can mitigate a worth-while amount of damage by tossing a mez out there. I don't even tell people I'm doing it, and breaking is usually not a problem. Circumstances (AE) may dictate that it won't work in every group. No big deal.
• We can wear plate. This flat out looks cooler (a non-negligable benefit), and usually means I'm the last healer standing in a close fight.

Just my 2cp.

[Elda]

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Jida wrote:

im 58 and the max dps i can do is 110. Full burn no healing on a blue ^^^ undead. If the mob is not undead max i can do is 80. I have multiple parses i can post showing a 58 fury doing 300+ dps with starfall and such against Yellow level 59-60 ^^^ Cyclops.

I perfer to be buffed for soloing.. in groups additional dps for templars is not needed so much IMO. But thats my opinion

Elder

---

Yes, amen. All priests should do near 200 DPS while soloing in the mid 50's.

Doing damage in a group is fun, but really, we dont need to...which is why i have no problem w fury group damage.

[noggin]

Love the changes from LU13. Many people hate, and have even quit their class, because of it. I personally don't understand it myself. I can't solo as well as _______, but frankly don't care. I can solo, you can solo, we all can solo, but as soon as someone does it better than us? what then? :smileysad::smileymad: Now we're :smileymad:that the same archtype does one or 3 things better than us? Pulease. If spells/skills are the only defining thing that get you into groups, invited to raids, and on people's "friends list", you're missing half of what the game offers, and what you offer to the game. The common underlying theme? YOU. And if there are "friends" out there that are  "dropping me from group" because they want some DPS + Healing, maybe it's time to find some different friends, or at least a different group of people with whom to group. I know I had an excruciating time right after trying to do the same things after LU13 that I was doing before LU13. People were dying left and right and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing at me like nobody's business. I was ready to quit, but went off by myself and had to re-learn and adapt to the changes. Asked a few friends go bare with me and lets go kill some stuff so we can all re-learn our skills/spells. It was tough. No doubt about it. But we all overcame and are better for it. As an aside, I would challenge any other healer-type, of the same level,  to out heal my templar. I dare ya. :smileywink: I'll be waiting for several group invites this weekend. hehehe I dunno, maybe you've had a few bad days worth of luck. Maybe the problem lies elsewhere. Maybe I'm just full of it and don't know jack. What? It's possible. Slim, but possible. :smileyhappy: Game on...

[Druzgotek]

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steelblueangel wrote:

My inquisitor is very cool to look at especially when she is sitting on her horse. But thats as good as it gets she looks good. I re-rolled another toon and only knock the dust off my inquisitor when I need to harvest. My inquisitor is a level 51 so she is able to harvest very well for my new toons trade skill items. I stopped playing her after update 13 when she was no longer fun to play anymore. My inquisitor is trivial at fizzle. She gets interrupted more than she cast. She heals like an grandma driving on a freeway .... very slowly.... by the time she gets off her biggest heal it's oops sorry u died but ... wait ... yeah I can rez u .... opps sorry.... I got interrupted and now Im dead too... My inquisitor is trival at shard recovery also. it became an easter egg hunt game before I quit playing her. Fighting solo to finish up minor quest took forever... swat... cast ... fizzle... fizzle... interrupt... cast... interrupt... interrupt... interupt.. swat... interrupt... interrupt...boring boring boring...yawn... yawn.. rinse, wash and repeat. Fights are forever because inquisitors take forever to .. well swat like a girl.. and then casting is so sloooow... the interrupts are annoying and deadly. So I dust her off now and then to forage or help a guildie other than that I play my new toon. Before its all said and done there will not be any Templers or Inquisitors in the game, most have already quit or rolled another toon like me. If i knew then what i know now I WOULD NEVER have made an inquisitor and I will never make a Templar thats for sure too.

Good luck fellow Templars and Inquisitors, my advice re-roll a toon. Nothing is going to change for our classes. Our classes are a phased out dead and forgotten class. There is alot to the game to enjoy and I am enjoying playing my new class. Yes I hated starting all over again but until another game comes out that I want to play online other than eq I'll stay. If another game comes out that I can enjoy I'll quickly pack my bags and be on my way. There are some new games coming online soon and I look forward to playing some of them.

Until then stay safe .. fizzle,fizzle, SAFE.. interrrupt... interrupt.. IN YOUR...interrupt.. fizzle.. interrupt.. TRAVELS... lol wink : ) 

 

 

---

Lol, that is pretty much how I feel now. My inquisitor just does not feel fun or even like he can do much of anything. O well, I am having fun blowing pp on twinks.

[Nanite]

The problem with you templar's is that your just too stupid . Seriously, I'm a fury, I solo a lot, and I've willingly taken a hit in my ability to heal *to be able to solo well*. How? simple, my int is way higher then my wis. My int it 244, my wis is 178. Lower then most healers, I know, but I do insane damage. While most templars I see have like 50 int. There's the problem folks. Adding 200 int is gonna make your spells do a helluva lot more damage. Now this isn't entirely the templar's fault. 90 of that int comes from my two adept3 buffs, but I also specifically bought +int items over anything else, even wis. The problem is, you can find +int light armor, but try finding +int plate. Probably isn't much if any. Now I know the int divide isn't the ONLY reason that furies do more damage, our spells rock, etc. But to all you temps whining about your not having anything over furies I have one word for you: PLATE! Platemail on a healer is AWESOME in a group, because when the tank loses agro (It's gonna happen eventually even with the best tank), the first one to get the agro is the wiz, who dies in two hits. Then who get's the agro? Yup, the healer. A dead fury isn't doing anybody any good. So here's what I suggest: Get rid of your useless mez, and get an int buff, and in the mean time, get as much +int jewelry as you can if want to solo, even if you gotta take a hit on the +wis stuff (but usually you can find stuff that does both), and get a couple linen +12int dolls instead of the +wis ones. It's a sacrifice, but you can solo decently and be an ok healer, or you can be an uber healer, and forget soloing, gotta pick one, can't have both.

[Mat]

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However, nothing else was significantly changed. This means that Templar nukes still have a base damage approximately one-third that of Furies. It means Templars still have no vitally useful utility, like root, SoW, Snare, Evac, Slow, Group Invis ... and the list goes on ... all abilities available to various of the other priest classes.

---

 

We have Odyssey which has fast recast time and I love it especially at questing. SoW and Invis can be covered with Totems but not Odyssey.

 

Regarding balancing clases, I do agree that it is lame to do that. Each class should have their own characteristic and role.

 

For solo issue, yes we are terrible at soloing. In return we receive less damage from the same mob compared to other healer classes as we can wear plate armors. White ^^^s hit me like 80 -100 when I am in full buffed T6 treasured platemail compared to others who went down in 4 hits. Plus we can now equip orbs. A pearl orb gives 60 resist to all physical types of attack now. Heck we have RH which could do immediate heals unlike regeneration which IMO not that reliable in such critical situations. So we should be proud that we are templars.

 

And yes, if you want more damage output, boost your int and grab an ironwood wand with 14wis and do magic damage by using it. I could solo a grp of Lv53-54 Heroeic easily at Lv60. We have a lot advantage in grp IMO so I would say templars are doing fine. The only thing that I do not like about templar is, both cast and recast time for healing spell are too hella long.

 

Fury IS NOT the best healer class. It is the players who are keeping the good job. Althought it would be nice to have more damage output for soloing,  I am satisfied with current situation. Wish I am not the only templar that thinks this way. :p 

Message Edited by Matek on 11-13-2005 08:00 PM

[Kingm]

Clerics are the lamest class in the game (IMO). You don't have to agree, and I am sure many of you don't. I have shelved my 53 Inqy and just use her to feed other toons. It's not funny how much more satisfying other classes are in this game. You have to be easily entertained to play a cleric. If we are not superior healers by far then we should have our dps and utility increased so that it is in line with druids.

Message Edited by Kingman on 11-13-2005 05:01 AM

[Druzgotek]

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Kingman wrote:
Clerics are the lamest class in the game (IMO). You don't have to agree, and I am sure many of you don't.

I have shelved my 53 Inqy and just use her to feed other toons.

It's not funny how much more satisfying other classes are in this game.

You have to be easily entertained to play a cleric.

If we are not superior healers by far then we should have our dps and utility increased so that it is in line with druids.

Message Edited by Kingman on 11-13-2005 05:01 AM

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Very true, I was bored/feeling worthless so finally I made my first real alt, a pet class. Wow, the pet alone soloes better than my inqusitor does.

Now if i could just transfer exp from my inquisitor to my alt, I would do it, since I always hate levelling.

 

Imo the game is fun now for dps classes. They should give clerics a good pet, that depops in groups or something similar, to make it solo only tool.

 

[Cowdenic]

I love it when Druids state, "Well you can use heavy armor and we cant." What they fail to tell you is they can use slashing weapons and crushing weapons when they choose. Yes while we can use most of the armor in the game they can use most of the weapons in the game. There is the balance for the armor.

[quetzaqotl]

Oh is that so cow? yes druids can use 1h swords like scimitars does that balance out the vast choice templars have of armor? lol dont make me laugh youre full of it.

we cant use all swords/weapons in game what are you talking about btw yeah those 1 h swords have sweet stats for a priest lol come on man.

[Cowdenic]

---

quetzaqotl wrote:

Oh is that so cow? yes druids can use 1h swords like scimitars does that balance out the vast choice templars have of armor? lol dont make me laugh youre full of it.

we cant use all swords/weapons in game what are you talking about btw yeah those 1 h swords have sweet stats for a priest lol come on man.

---

they do when soloing.

[quetzaqotl]

K tell me what advantage I have soloing with my scimitar instead of a mace, tell me how much that is gonna help soloing?

You think that me being able to use a scimitar is balanced against you being able to wear every piece of gear in game (ecept for class only gear of course)?

I bet you think it does lol ah well.

our bonus weapon choice (only 1h swords btw for druids and spears for shamans) is fluff whereas the armor choice is much more than fluff.

Message Edited by quetzaqotl on 11-13-2005 06:37 AM

[Cowdenic]

---

quetzaqotl wrote:

K tell me what advantage I have soloing with my scimitar instead of a mace, tell me how much that is gonna help soloing?

You think that me being able to use a scimitar is balanced against you being able to wear every piece of gear in game (ecept for class only gear of course)?

I bet you think it does lol ah well.

our bonus weapon choice (only 1h swords btw for druids and spears for shamans) is fluff whereas the armor choice is much more than fluff.

Message Edited by quetzaqotl on 11-13-2005 06:37 AM

---

by your same reasoning then our additional armor choices are then fluff.

[quetzaqotl]

---

Cowdenicus wrote:

---

quetzaqotl wrote:

K tell me what advantage I have soloing with my scimitar instead of a mace, tell me how much that is gonna help soloing?

You think that me being able to use a scimitar is balanced against you being able to wear every piece of gear in game (ecept for class only gear of course)?

I bet you think it does lol ah well.

our bonus weapon choice (only 1h swords btw for druids and spears for shamans) is fluff whereas the armor choice is much more than fluff.

Message Edited by quetzaqotl on 11-13-2005 06:37 AM

---

by your same reasoning then our additional armor choices are then fluff.

---

all i can say is lol and I give up hehe theres no point but please continue to make stupid posts like that cow, make me laugh :smileyvery-happy:

Message Edited by quetzaqotl on 11-13-2005 08:21 AM

[Cowdenic]

---

quetzaqotl wrote:

---

Cowdenicus wrote:

---

quetzaqotl wrote:

K tell me what advantage I have soloing with my scimitar instead of a mace, tell me how much that is gonna help soloing?

You think that me being able to use a scimitar is balanced against you being able to wear every piece of gear in game (ecept for class only gear of course)?

I bet you think it does lol ah well.

our bonus weapon choice (only 1h swords btw for druids and spears for shamans) is fluff whereas the armor choice is much more than fluff.

Message Edited by quetzaqotl on 11-13-2005 06:37 AM

---

by your same reasoning then our additional armor choices are then fluff.

---

all i can say is lol and I give up hehe theres no point but please continue to make stupid posts like that cow, make me laugh :smileyvery-happy:

Message Edited by quetzaqotl on 11-13-2005 08:21 AM

---

You are right Quetz in one regard, there is no point, because you will not admit that there are 2 huge disparities that need to be addressed. A. your Group Specialty heal (Regen) is up to 4 times more effective thatn anybody elses other than Wardens. B There is an extremely large soloing disparity even within the healer ranks.

These issues need to be adressed and corrected. Of course that wont happen because people keep hijacking and flaming any thread that Templars post in. Which results in a lock and a move. Not to mention getting people off topic.

SO I will volunteer to be the honest Templar here. One of 2 things need to happen.

A. They boost all healers to be able to solo as well as Furies and boost all healers soloability across the board (preferred method) and fix the group regen so it has a max of 9 ticks between the group over 10 seconds.

or B. They need to NERF Furies and Wardens Group Regens and Nerf Furies ability to do burst Damage down. (really dont want to see this happen.)

Thats it, very simple and very easy.

[Cowdenic]

A Post Script on the last post.

Quetz, I actually like you. Dont take anything I say personal. Some of your Warden and Fury friends on these boards are quite rude and offensive, but I like you.

Let you and I agree to disagree, and keep everything civil.

[Tro]

---

Caethre wrote:

OOC.

 

Where is the Templar class to go now, with EQUAL HEALING and almost nothing else?
================================================== =============

 

It is now over a month since the LU13 update. The update contained much that was good for the long term benefit of the game. However, it also did quite a lot of harm in some areas, and has upset and alienated some sections of the playerbase. In that time, some of the problems have been addressed, and some classes have had answers given to their questions. This post is to ask for some attention to be given to the Templar issues, which have attracted precisely zero (perceived) attention from SOE, despite a huge outcry on the Templar forums.

 

The essence of the problem is this: many Templars are feeling side-lined. Players chose the Templar class at release to be Healers. We chose Templar over the other healing classes because they were the 'purest healer' of all, and for those of us who are ex-EQ1 players, the closest to the Cleric class from that game. We analyzed the class, and saw that it had less utility than the other priests, and did a lot less DPS, but we also saw that it was by far the most powerful healing class, so we were happy and made our choice.

 

Ten months on, SOE decide to implement the "all priests must heal equally" principle, something that  was certainly not true at EQII launch. The experiences of most Templars now is that SOE have largely succeeded, and healing is now approximately balanced across all the six priest classes.

 

However, nothing else was significantly changed. This means that Templar nukes still have a base damage approximately one-third that of Furies. It means Templars still have no vitally useful utility, like root, SoW, Snare, Evac, Slow, Group Invis ... and the list goes on ... all abilities available to various of the other priest classes.

 

This has lead to Templars who are not in hardcore raiding guilds, and who are not protected in fixed groups of friends or large guilds that give them groups every day, are sitting idle, unable to compete for group spots against other Priest classes more than capable of keeping groups alive in normal XP grinding / questing circumstances, and only able to solo at one third the rate.

 

In turn, this has caused many Templar players to become demoralized, and many, like myself, have taken to start another class, only to see clearly how badly off we are now in this regard.

 

The Templar class needs some attention now. SOE, you cannot leave us as EQUAL HEALERS but at the same time, ONE-THIRD contributors in terms of damage and utility - noone will invite us to groups, and we cannot solo effectively compared to those other healing classes. The so-called 'healing utility' lines are too weak and too random (as well as requiring no skill, and hence are boring) to be useful outside very difficult content and outside raids - for small group and soloing situations, they are basically useless.

 

There are countless suggestions on the Templar board on how this might be addressed. Nerfing other classes is not the answer either, some of them are fun, what is needed is a review of what you actually want from the Templar class, and to tell us where you see us as heading. Because right now, no-one in their right mind who has knowledge of the other healing classes, would choose a Templar as a duo partner or a healer in a group of 3 or 4, doing normal things, because other healers are just as good at healing (in the sense, they can keep the group alive) AND they can offer much more with their spare power. Parses of ~90dps for tier6 Templars are comparing to ~350+ dps for say teir6 Furies, these are appearing all over these forums, yet the healing is effectively equal.

 

The morale of Templars is at an all time low as a result. Are we going to get any sort of response from SOE on this please? Tell us please, what do you intend for our class, as our role, in solo and small group and normal XP group settings? Or do you intend all Templars who are not hardcore raiders to either re-roll as another class or just accept being across-the-board weaklings, seen as XP leeches by others, the healer to take when they can get noone else?

 

Felishanna [53 Templar]
Annaelisa [33 Fury]

---

I feel for ya and have to agree. I play a Guardian as my main and my Wife plays a Templar.. Although we have adapted to the changes and will likely stay with EQ2 atleast until Vanguard comes out..

The reason why I would still leave EQ2 even though we are still having fun (Never thought I would say that post LU 13), is the way LU 13 was implemented.

You talk about "Ten months on, SOE decide to implement the "all priests must heal equally". This is my problem.. When he/she and my wife and I first rolled our characters months ago, after researching the characters we wanted to roll, we made our decision. Had I read anywhere in the EQ2 manual that shipped with the CD's or on any SoE EQ2 website something to the following: "We will be implementing some major changes to character spell lines and to the game mechanics in a few months that will essentially result in you having a "new" character. This means you will have to "Relearn" how to play your "New" character" and it's role in the game may infact change".

Nowhere did I read such a statement. The fact is is that EQ2 was infact released well before it was ready. SoE decided to "Rush" it out the door and release it around the time WoW was being released in an attempt to get as many WoW customers as possible. Thats the reality of it all.. It was simply a greedy decision that resulted in SoE's "Paying" customer to take it in the shorts months down the road.

LU 13 was a major change in the game and if the game wasn't working as intended then they should have finished it BEFORE releasing it. Period..

They figured they would "Fix" things as they go.. Well we got our "Fix" didn't we..

We (My wife and I) tried several other games after we tested LU13 changes for about 2 weeks.. Took three weeks and could not find another game that we liked so here we are waiting for some EQ2 competition..  Once we find a game we both like, we will cease giving SoE our money considering the way they chose to screw the customer in favor of lining their wallets.. It's a [Removed for Content] shame... I feel for all of you that are around for revamp number 2 or 3 or 4.. It's gonna happen.. we all know it.. it's just a matter of time..  

My 2cp..

Message Edited by Trook on 11-13-2005 10:14 AM

[Kendricke]

---

Cowdenicus wrote:

You are right Quetz in one regard, there is no point, because you will not admit that there are 2 huge disparities that need to be addressed. A. your Group Specialty heal (Regen) is up to 4 times more effective thatn anybody elses other than Wardens. B There is an extremely large soloing disparity even within the healer ranks.

---

Templars can throw more healing at a main tank within a five second period of time than any other priest.  I understand that under the right circumstances, Druid regenerations can spread out throughout a group to heal more damage overall.  However, my group reactive (9 triggers), plus my solo reactive  (5 triggers) plus reverence (tank heals him or herself for 1.4 health for every point of power used), on pre-pull plus Glory of Combat (which is always up on at least two of my group members), plus my Focused Benefaction "stun myself" reactive (a whopping 15 triggers at ~300 health each) is more than sufficient to keep any tank healed during the opening "alpha strike" of any challenging encounter or raid. 

 

If that's still not enough, add in my ability to fire off another emergency group and solo reactive (another 14 triggers with 0 cast time) and Salvation (you can't die - the moment your health hits 0, you stand right back up with ~500 health), I'd say I'm pretty covered on ways to keep someone standing. 

 

If somehow, all of that is not enough, I can add in my Mark of Kings and Involuntary Healers spells on the main target to give everyone - not just in my group, but EVERYONE that hits that target a chance at healing themselves for a small amount. 

 

If for some reason, at the end of the day, none of that is enough, I can cast an in-combat resurrection that brings the target back with full health and NO resurrection sickness.

 

 

(Oh yeah, we also have direct heals...)

 

 

 

Message Edited by Kendricke on 11-13-2005 05:14 PM