Is this the way SoE and EQ2 is to be perceived? Moor/Black?

[Ildarus]

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lisasdarren wrote:

What players want is generally emotive and is therefore unreliable by default; for example non-dps classes are complaining that the DPS classes can level far faster than them because they kill mobs very fast, where as the Devs know (they have data on everything that happens in game remember) that there is only a very slight advantage for DPS classes in terms of leveling speed.

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What game are you playing? I can gain xp twice as fast with one of my dps character than I can with my priest character when soloing. If I can kill a blue con mob in 30 seconds with my dps class and not have to recoup, and then my priest turns around and kills the sam mob in 45-60 seconds but then has to spend another 30 seconds recouping, then it only makes sense that my  dps class would gain xp faster soloing.

Now if you are talking about grouping xp, then what you said is correct. If all you do is group then I can see where you are biased like that, but there are a lot of us that cannot group everytime we come on.

Back to the original post. I am just going to say that I think if the devs were too poll from the launch pad they would get more accurate answers. They can design polls based on what they are finding in the forums and feedback in game. It has to be a hell of a lot more accurate that reading 100 posts and then trying to decipher what they think the posters meant.

 

Also, I think Moorgard is doing two jobs now. I may be wrong but I am seeing more posts from him than Blackgaurd the community manager.

[Hollowe]

I never post on here because generally I don't care to get in flustered arguments with frustrated gamers. I agree with the original post and believe that more attention needs to be given in presentation of the game, how bugs are being handled, and ways characters can be played. Many believe that equal is having a character than can level just as fast and take just as much risk as others but with that mentality the characters would lack variety. I am a Wiz class and I used to be envious of priest classes who could seemingly survive battles that I couldn't even attempt due to there ability to heal themselves. My brother is a Paladin and he used to be able to solo in battles that I would get destroyed in because he has a slight heal and can absorb way more damage. The balance in playing your character comes in how you play your character. I do not complain that  a priest lasted 15 minutes in a fight while I died in the first 3 that is the balance. I don't expect my brother to be able to kill a mob as fast as me and retain almost no damage. So they allow Mages lots of Damage to kill mob quick so they have the possibility to survive but priest can take more risk. By the nature of the balance some characters where unintentionally given the ability to level faster but this is an RPG, are differences are what defines us. Maybe there is a gross imbalance but that imbalance is probably tied up is derivations of calculus 3 and differential equations that most of us could only hope to understand. (Damage and risk ratio's can  be modeled in complex equations per range of possible situations). We can not hope to be equal in some ways and still retain  the uniqueness off our characters because there would be no point in variety if we could all accomplish the same thing the same way with the same amount of risk spending the same amount of time. I'm a Wiz and I give'em hell for the 3 or so minutes I'm alive. Your a (add your class) and you should do the same.

 

Im not trying to argue that just what I think. I'm not a hardcore player but I htink the game is fun.:smileyhappy:

[Findara]

Out of all the fighting and bickering this post has every one can agree that more development interaction, like the beta boards (they posted there a lot and actually listened to some comments).  I agree that the game needs some player customizations and the abilty to look unique for the effort you put into getting your gear (cobalt looks like ebon, fabled tier 6 common off instances looks like raid drops).  No matter if it takes them 1 day or 3 months to put this in, if they would just tell us that its comming and like give us progress reports, with maybe screen shots of the new armor/gear that is "in progress".   I know they have commented that the art team makes the models and it takes a diffrent team to see them ingame, but when your talking about simple things like cobalt looking like ebon, that should be ingame already. and for the record I could solo heroic groups (more than one mob) before and after life update 13, but no higher than white con, or they resist root too often.

Message Edited by Findarato on 10-04-2005 07:57 AM

[lisasdarr]

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Ildarus wrote:

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lisasdarren wrote:What players want is generally emotive and is therefore unreliable by default; for example non-dps classes are complaining that the DPS classes can level far faster than them because they kill mobs very fast, where as the Devs know (they have data on everything that happens in game remember) that there is only a very slight advantage for DPS classes in terms of leveling speed.

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What game are you playing? I can gain xp twice as fast with one of my dps character than I can with my priest character when soloing. If I can kill a blue con mob in 30 seconds with my dps class and not have to recoup, and then my priest turns around and kills the sam mob in 45-60 seconds but then has to spend another 30 seconds recouping, then it only makes sense that my  dps class would gain xp faster soloing.

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I'll re-iterate A DEV said at the community summit that their data shows only a small increase in comparative XP gain rate for DPS classes, and their data encompases everything that happens in EQ2. Your empirical evidence is powerless in the face of their immense reserves of hard data.

[Vicio]

"A DEV said at the community summit that their data shows only a small increase in comparative XP gain rate for DPS classes, and their data encompases everything that happens in EQ2."

 

You have to look at the source. These are the same people who said frogloks were in the game at launch. These are the same people who said there would be guild housing. These are the same people who said the Combat Revamp wouldn't be released until it was ready.

 

Perception is everything. Even if SOE is telling us the truth, should we believe them?

[Ildarus]

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lisasdarren wrote:

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Ildarus wrote:

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lisasdarren wrote:

What players want is generally emotive and is therefore unreliable by default; for example non-dps classes are complaining that the DPS classes can level far faster than them because they kill mobs very fast, where as the Devs know (they have data on everything that happens in game remember) that there is only a very slight advantage for DPS classes in terms of leveling speed.

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What game are you playing? I can gain xp twice as fast with one of my dps character than I can with my priest character when soloing. If I can kill a blue con mob in 30 seconds with my dps class and not have to recoup, and then my priest turns around and kills the sam mob in 45-60 seconds but then has to spend another 30 seconds recouping, then it only makes sense that my  dps class would gain xp faster soloing.

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I'll re-iterate

A DEV said at the community summit that their data shows only a small increase in comparative XP gain rate for DPS classes, and their data encompases everything that happens in EQ2.

Your empirical evidence is powerless in the face of their immense reserves of hard data.

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[Removed for Content]-you have to be kidding me. I don't care what the devs said at the community summit. You had me almost rolling out of my chair laughing when I read this. Your pompous attitude was fricken hilariuos. Did the DEV show you his immense reserves of hard evidence?

Oh My, I started chuckling again when I had to write that.

"Immense reserves of hard evidence". [Removed for Content].

Common Sense and Logic, not an Immense reserve of hard evidence([Removed for Content]), that I didn't even get to see, tells me that if one class can kill something almost twice as fast as another that their rate of xp gain is going to be greater.

My thoughts on the immense reserves of hard evidence is they are factoring in quest xp, and when people are grouped, I am talking about cold hard grinding of the same mobs, which sometimes some of us do to get to that next level that some of our freinds have reached. They are looking at the over all experience gain.

[FreaklyCreak]

Yes, I do play the same game you all do. I just don't try and find every little thing to nickpick at. Ya you would have alot more fun just playing instead of complaining...I admit i complain but jeezus >.<

Learn how to deal with the changes they make, take it like a pitcher giving you a curve ball all of the sudden.

[Outerspace]

I agree with the OP completely about the perception of SOE's EQ2 team. But why do SOE need to bother conducting a poll? If they want to know what players want, they can just go down to a game store and buy World of Warcraft. The facts don't lie - EQ2 was a half finished product rushed out to beat WoW to the market. Whilst I appreciate they appear to be systematically stealing ideas and content from WoW, rebranding them and implementing them as "new features" they don't carry them off half as well as Blizzard does. EQ2 is still full of bugs. I've /feedback'd and /bug'd loads of things in the past. But what's the point? Nothing ever changes. We continue to get no information from SOE's forum team about future plans, incoming bug fixes, responses to feedback other than "this post should have been posted in another forum". We throw an awful lot of helpful information to them via the forums and /feedback, and then they put in a Gambling Goblin - or rather Yet Another White Elephant. The fact that the Gambling Goblin was put on the website as a major feature of the latest Live Update shows the contempt of the SOE design team. Is this really what they've been working on since the combat revamp? Look at the way they put the un-nerf of group invisibility on there as a new feature as well, despite nerfing it to uselessness only a couple of weeks back. Why not something to improve the game instead of yet more completely useless gimmicks that no-one will use. Why include stupid things like /pizza? Has anyone actually even used that yet? About the armour for tier 6 being the same as tier 5 - I disagree with the majority here and I think it -is- an extremely important thing that SOE have failed to even bother coming up with anything new. If I wanted the expansion to be mostly same as pre-50, I wouldn't have bothered buying it. I love the way they used that screeny with the guy in the dark red and blue armour and flaming sword to whet everyone's appetite and create hype. So where is it? Armour differences create depth in game. It's nice to be different. It doesn't help that they've used a script to automatically generate the tier 6 equipment. Sadly it follows the trend of designers taking an armour, changing the tint slightly, calling it a different name and saying "heres the new armours you have been asking for" only this time they didn't even bother to change the tint. Look > all in video games. Whilst some might say the cartoon graphics in WoW are unappealing, the fact that everyone is different most definitely is appealing. The fact that every zone looks different in WoW is appealing. Some might say the graphics quality on WoW is poor, but look at the way Blizzard have created atmosphere in their zones with superb sound and lighting. The lighting is done in such a way that you don't notice the fact that the graphics are not that detailed. But you can easily have 100 people on your screen at full motion, on full graphics settings with no lag. Sadly in EQ2 you need a supercomputer to even play with lighting or shadows on, heaven forbid if anyone walks on your screen. But even then the visuals in EQ2 are pretty dull and gloomy and the world - sorry, zone - feels very small and cramped. Blizzard's attention to detail is superb also. Neat touches everywhere. To summarise here, everything people are complaining about in EQ2, the bugs, the lack of attention to detail, the lack of imagination, the lack of content: if you're one of the people that are fed up with continuously being fobbed off and let down by SOE just stop posting, go down to the shop and buy World of Warcraft. I'm not aiming to start a WoW vs EQ2 war - there's only one winner of that. My only regret is that I didn't buy it 11 months ago. Oh, and please don't waste your time with the "don't let the door hit you on the way out". It wont - I've already gone.

Message Edited by Outerspace on 10-05-2005 12:20 PM

[Vicio]

Now now, nobody here is going to go out and buy Warcraft. We're all waiting for Vanguard

[Avarimar]

Nobody ever likes being given something, and then having it taken away. I think alot of the classes were overpowered before the nerf, I think they are more in-line with what they should be now. I think that people are wearing alot more fabled equipment than they ever originally intended also. Biggest problems with EQ2 in my eyes, are archtype class distinction, and world. The zones are massive, and annoying in ways since you have so many cliffs and mountains its difficult to run around, but then you are given things like griffons or carpets which just throw you across the zone, it's not so immersive as it could be, or as I would like. Then you have thousands of annoying NPC's, sure it's good to have some that are cocky or arrogant, some that are so high level they want nothing to do with you, but they definitely went over the top with it. NPC's should exist in less numbers with many quests from familiar npcs it would be much better that way, those NPC's should have unique equipment and character and you should have to seek them out, rather than having them in your face waving at you to go over to them in an infinite loop. They seriously lost their ability to make the "world" good since Luclin. Velious and everything before it, had it. EQ2 has some of the best textures I've seen in a game, WoW's textures were terribly boring. So since the models for most armours already exist, why can't they theme each class through different textures? They have the skill to do it. Why should all int casters look the same, why should Paladins and SK's look the same, or Druids or Shamans, they are only distinct in name. We may aswell be playing a text MUD. The casual players are probably unhappy in EQ2 because in WoW and EQ1 they have decent distinction for roleplaying, they have out of group buffs, heals, levitate, sow(not sure about WoW) they have illusions and teleports etc. The classes are so watered down in EQ2 in order to make it seem like it has alot more classes, that each class gets alot less of useful unique abilities. Anyway, this is why I'm waiting for Vanguard heh. EQ2 could be just as good as Vanguard promises to be, but they just don't seem to want to, on some strange principle.

[Cuz]

I used to play FFXI, so compared to that, the EQ2 devs feel like my next door neighbours. So really I can't judge on how much they respond. Just the fact that they do is still mind boggling to me.

Polls can end up kind of odd. What if brawlers constitute 50% of the fighters, and the poll question would be "Do you think fighters are well balanced". What would a scout or mage answer?

Besides, like some you have just proven, no matter what stats or information SoE gives us, you'll just say it's bull[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] anyways, so why bother?

[Outerspace]

Yep I agree with that (edit- the post above the one above this)! Other games including Guildwars and WoW have much fewer classes but more defined as you say, but on WoW at least they also create distinction between races as well. I think this creates more depth - something I believe EQ2 is severely lacking now. You can have two rogues for example, and both have different abilities just because of their race. EQ2 attempts this but just gives a smattering of useless skills (I think one of mine is a damage proc for 4 (yes four) damage which lasts 3 mins and is on a 30 min recast - woot) so basically it doesn't matter what race you are. Some fighter classes used to gain benefit from +5 defence because of their race but sadly defence isn't as important as it once was. In addition the ability on other games to fine tune (build) your character is something that adds depth too, and allows you to tailor your toon to exactly your liking and play style. This has been in all MMO's I have played, but it's not in EQ2. Every guardian is the same, every wizard is the same. It's dull, boring. I hoped by now SOE would have put this in, and indeed I suggested it a few times on various boards on this website, but still the best we can do is to define characters by how much money they have and therefore who has the Adept 3 and Master spells and who doesn't. What difference does armour make? Not a great deal. When we needed more variety all we got was more dumbing down and everyone made even more similar than they were previously, and then they proceed to un-nerf things and trumpet them as new features whilst adding gimmicks like Mr Gambling Goblin. The armour difference issue is no help to this either. How can you tell when someone's level 60 compared to level 50? Where's the "wow look at that high level and his sweet gear" factor? That creates ambition and people strive to level. When I begun EQ2 I thought that to myself when I saw people in the cool looking dark coloured plate armour which was way out of my reach then. But sadly they have made every plate armour piece between level 40 and 60 look pretty much exactly the same. I have no motivation to level to 60. I get no new spells, just the same ones as I had from 37-46 but with different names and a percentage damage increase. The XP rate of increase even with vitality is so painfully slow, and the fact that full vitality gives about 35% of a level also sucks. But what's at level 60? A super-hard Zalak? A "new and exciting raid of the King of Permafrost"... so.. Drayek then? Bah.. sorry.. I've derailed this thread enough already

Message Edited by Outerspace on 10-06-2005 08:21 AM

[crunchybob]

To the OP, bravo, well said.

 

As to the question of polls...as you can see the trolls are out in full force. If anyone puts forth an idea on these boards, there will be someone to thwart it. Not that I thought polls were some amazing revelation. It's just tiring to see the same garbage day in and day out here. Whenever anyone suggests anything, theres always someone who has to try to counter it.

 

You're all so uber and all knowing that I've gone blind with the radiance of your genius. Now give us all the benefit of your unfathomable wisdom and offer some other constructive way for the game to be improved. Please enlighten us, the mentally underprivledged.

[Banef]

I would like new armor designs, I still don't understand how a company like Sony can drop the ball so many times on unique armor designs, no-one buys a new MMO hoping "Oh boy I'm going to quest like crazy, explore, level to max, raid, and look EXACTLY the same as everyone else that plays a _________", it's pitiful.

[Durr]

I am starting to think that there are less then 10 people working on this game.  I think they even outsourced the expansion.  I don't think they have any graphics artists left.  Most of the talent left to join Sigil Games.  All they can do is have one or two programmers change math around on classes and previously made items.  They never add any new items or content.  Just change the numbers around on items already in the database.  They are trying to get the most money out of what little base is left.  They have not announced anything new to be added content wise.  Just recycled art with new (barely) numbers.  I think they know where this game is heading and they already have the core group of people in place to manage it. The OP is right on.

[Outerspace]

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crunchybob wrote:To the OP, bravo, well said.

 

As to the question of polls...as you can see the trolls are out in full force. If anyone puts forth an idea on these boards, there will be someone to thwart it. Not that I thought polls were some amazing revelation. It's just tiring to see the same garbage day in and day out here. Whenever anyone suggests anything, theres always someone who has to try to counter it.

 

You're all so uber and all knowing that I've gone blind with the radiance of your genius. Now give us all the benefit of your unfathomable wisdom and offer some other constructive way for the game to be improved. Please enlighten us, the mentally underprivledged.

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If that was some insult aimed at me, I did pose some things I'd have liked to see in the game. I've compared EQ2 with the market leading game, and indeed EQ2 has stolen an awful lot from that game so SOE's design team must also compare EQ2 with that game.  I simply commented on what I would like to see in EQ2. That's constructive, whether you like the fact WoW > EQ2 or not. Sadly, I don't really see anything useful or constructive coming from your post apart from petty insults branding everyone that doesn't agree with you a 'troll'.

[xenaphobia]

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lisasdarren wrote:

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Ayun wrote:

I like the idea of the weekly question thing. But I think they won't do it because they believe SoE knows what the playerbase wants more than the playerbase does.

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Of course the problem with this point is that what most people mean by "You are not doing what the players want" is actually "You are not doing what I want"

There are quite a lot of people who play this game, they all have differenct perspectives of what is good and bad, on these boards is a small sub-section of the players and in any thread here you will see a dozen different opinions in the first dozen posts (Well not quite, but you get the idea).

So what do the player base want?

• Some want different armor appearances, some don't care.
• Some think combat is too hard, some think it is too easy.
• Some think Paladins suck now, others think they are great.
• Some people believe their character is borked, others think their character of the same class is fantastic.
• Some people are able to see past baseless perception, others are to blind to do so.

They can't base the direction of the game on what people want, they need to find a middle ground that doesn't upset too many people and that makes enough others happy, that is a very tricky proposition.

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Umm wouldn't those pole question he or she suggested help to fix that problem? I mean you take the pole you add up the number adn bing, majority rules. Whats so hard abou that?

 

Oh and Aszuthan, I think a poll after you log into the game would work just fine. As a matter of a fact they have done it in EQ1. And when you cancel your EQ2 account they give you a big poll there too.

Message Edited by xenaphobia on 10-07-2005 01:01 AM

Message Edited by xenaphobia on 10-07-2005 01:57 AM

[xenaphobia]

 

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FreaklyCreak wrote:

Yes, I do play the same game you all do. I just don't try and find every little thing to nickpick at. Ya you would have alot more fun just playing instead of complaining...I admit i complain but jeezus >.<

Learn how to deal with the changes they make, take it like a pitcher giving you a curve ball all of the sudden.

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You know I would, if I didn't acualy have to pay real money at the same time.

[lisasdarr]

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xenaphobia wrote:

Umm wouldn't those pole question he or she suggested help to fix that problem? I mean you take the pole you add up the number adn bing, majority rules. Whats so hard abou that?

 

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Because the chances of getting a significant majority on most design decisions is small, you will get 52% wanting one thing and 48% wanting another and so by chosing one path you are going totally against half your players. If you find a middle path most players from both sides will understand and accept the compromise and only a few extremists will scream and shout about how wrong it is.

[Vicio]

Regardless, SOE needs some way to understand what their player base wants. Doesn't have to be a poll, could be some other form of survey.

[Aszuth]

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xenaphobia wrote:

Umm wouldn't those pole question he or she suggested help to fix that problem? I mean you take the pole you add up the number adn bing, majority rules. Whats so hard abou that?

 

Oh and Aszuthan, I think a poll after you log into the game would work just fine. As a matter of a fact they have done it in EQ1. And when you cancel your EQ2 account they give you a big poll there too.

Message Edited by xenaphobia on 10-07-2005 01:01 AM

Message Edited by xenaphobia on 10-07-2005 01:57 AM

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Working and having accurate numbers can be (and often would be in a case like this) apples and oranges, how many times did you see them run with an idea full bore from those EQ1 polls? There's a reason for it, unless the response is an extreme it's really going to give a muddled response due to the inaccuracy - assuming the +/-15% that MSN.com style of polling gets (and this would be quite a bit less accurate more than likely) you'd need 65-70% to be going one way on the poll to guarantee an accurate response to it - and honestly, barring extreme issues you'll rarely have a response that radical.

And yes, the quitting poll (I was just recently made aware of it, since I want to get both my accounts to bill the same day) doesn't have too many holes in it, barring the fact that many people will just click click click randomly to get it done ASAP rather than actually spending the time to complete it appropriately.

[Gwide]

The only 2 polls I remember from EQLive did end up being acted upon.  One was Station Exchange which was apparently scrapped at that time due to the poll and board outcry.  The other one I remember was whether Nagy and Vox should be level restricted, which was also done.

I think a lot of changes come from ideas on these boards and cancellation polls.  However, I don't think they put much value on the complaints you see here (unless perhaps your post count is low).  They probably want to stay away from board junkies designing the game unless it melds with their vision for the game.

I didn't think they would listen to my feedback on these boards because it doesn't meld with the producer's vision for the game.  The only way to tell them I thought it was frustrating and unfinished was to cancel and state it there.

[Exibar]

If you ever actually worked at Gallup, you'd have likely spoken to someone who expressed similar feelings about internet pollings in the upper echelons of your staff, since they're the ones that first condemned the accuracy of online polling and continue to quite often - in fact on many networks you saw some of their top brass explaining why the online polls were flawed, for exactly the types of reasons I listed.

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Well, are you sure that Gallop isn't only against Internet polls because they take business directly away from them?  Think about it, wouldn't you try and put your competitor in the worse light you possibly could when asked about them?   

 Gallop:  Our widgets are the best!

  interviewer: What about the internet widgets?

 Gallop:  oh, they're ok, if you don't mind the tolerances being off by more than 2%

 interviewer: What are your tolerances?

 Gallop:  er... ah... 2% but we strive hard to keep ours to the low end of 2%, unlike internet widgets who is shown in these two graphs to be well on the high side of 2% in these two types of widgets they made in 1980 - 1985

 

 and so on.....

 

   

[Aszuth]

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Gwideon wrote:

The only 2 polls I remember from EQLive did end up being acted upon.  One was Station Exchange which was apparently scrapped at that time due to the poll and board outcry.  The other one I remember was whether Nagy and Vox should be level restricted, which was also done.

I think a lot of changes come from ideas on these boards and cancellation polls.  However, I don't think they put much value on the complaints you see here (unless perhaps your post count is low).  They probably want to stay away from board junkies designing the game unless it melds with their vision for the game.

I didn't think they would listen to my feedback on these boards because it doesn't meld with the producer's vision for the game.  The only way to tell them I thought it was frustrating and unfinished was to cancel and state it there.

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I played EQ1 for 6 1/2 years before finally giving it up, there was approximately two dozen vote topics - Naggy and Vox restriction was never one of them (voting was added to the login part of the client shortly before SoL if I recall - well after Kunark, when they were restricted, for sure), the only one that was "acted upon" was the psuedo-Station Exchange concept which was presumably shot down harshly and sidelined.

 

And to be completely frank, if they listened to every [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and moan it would become an ever increasing spiral of one way, then the other, then the other until they've got nothing left. Extremism on any side of the coin is a bad thing.

[Aszuth]

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Exibar wrote:

If you ever actually worked at Gallup, you'd have likely spoken to someone who expressed similar feelings about internet pollings in the upper echelons of your staff, since they're the ones that first condemned the accuracy of online polling and continue to quite often - in fact on many networks you saw some of their top brass explaining why the online polls were flawed, for exactly the types of reasons I listed.

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Well, are you sure that Gallop isn't only against Internet polls because they take business directly away from them?  Think about it, wouldn't you try and put your competitor in the worse light you possibly could when asked about them?   

 Gallop:  Our widgets are the best!

  interviewer: What about the internet widgets?

 Gallop:  oh, they're ok, if you don't mind the tolerances being off by more than 2%

 interviewer: What are your tolerances?

 Gallop:  er... ah... 2% but we strive hard to keep ours to the low end of 2%, unlike internet widgets who is shown in these two graphs to be well on the high side of 2% in these two types of widgets they made in 1980 - 1985

 

 and so on.....

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Gallup has a presence on the web, it would be very easy for them to provide web-based polls if they wanted to - but they don't feel it would retain their standards by doing such.

 

And anyone with a background in social sciences and statistics would quote similar to Gallup, trust me - the folks that run it are amongst the top in the polling field, they could honestly give a crap about getting more business.... as is they only poll topics they want to, they don't do them by request - the first step in making themselves a more profitable company, even above the nonsensical theorized fibbing about the quality of their competitors.

[Stormykat]

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Cowdenicus wrote:

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Aszuthan wrote:

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Ildarus wrote:

Ok, so these forums and Sony thinking for us is accurate. NOT!!!!!!! These forums are a very small percentage of the player base and to say the voluntary polls are notoriously innaccurate is false. The company I work for does anonymous voluntary polls of its employees all the time and they seem to, most of the time, net the results that the employees indicated. Lots of companies do them and guess what politicians sometimes make major decisions based on voluntary polls.

Message Edited by Ildarus on 10-03-2005 02:20 PM

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For one thing, I never stated these forums were a good basis - quite the contrary - for much the same reasons that voluntary polling doesn't work, there's random crap and lack of interest by many of the people that don't participate.

As for anonymous "voluntary" polls at a place of work - most people would consider participating in it beneficial for advancement, etc - hardly "voluntary" by any normal means - not to mention having a true "opt out" option is what defines something as voluntary.

To those that don't understand pollster speak a voluntary poll means the following are done:

1. That the persons taking the poll are DO NOT selected at random amongst the appropriate "group" to be polled. (Internet polls don't do this, as a result you can sometimes get some getting multiple votes, while some getting none - or the entire link to the poll is missed by many that may have been interested in voting on the poll topic - or due to disinterest having random clickthroughs without even reading)

2. That there is NOT a true "opt out" option NOR a method of human review after the fact that opt outs are factored appropriately.

Political polls are handled like this by any group that claims a +/-2% accuracy as well as any other polling that is considered accurate.

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A few points oh wondourous one. LOL. If it is an anonymous poll at work oh my liberal friend how could it be beneficial to advancement since NOBODY KNOWS YOU DID IT (hence anonymous). These polls could be made voluntary when you log in and given an opt out if you are not intrested. Hence there is not a "RANDOM" Factor but EVERYBODY IS POLLED. See no messy links, or any of that, no somebody polled twice (unless they have 2 accounts). Human review is so not necessary.  The only thing human review allows is pollsters to spin and edit. You see if 300,000 surveys are given out then SoE can be given 300k rezsoponses even if the response is no response which is a valid response.

I worked for Gallop, I know what I am talking about.

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and i worked for Statistics Canada, so I know what I'm talking about when I say that no response just makes the results of the survey less accurate. the more people respond to the survey, the more strong the survey results are because it's more indicitive of what the people want. as for the person who said the way the armor looks isn't a make or break thing for the game. i believe it is. especially in this day and age of flashy mmorpgs - it's all about graphics. for me, i'll still play the game. but it's more fun for me if there are more looks to choose from among armor. and if a new game comes out that offers more variety with a smiliar style of play.. people might be drawn to that. i do believe the op made some good points. it is about perception. i would like to see clear and concise posts (a weekly update) of what is being worked on. i don't think it's too hard to do. we ARE left in the dark and left to wait and see and hope things get fixed. a clear summarised account would be fantastic. i don't agree with weekly surveys - that is a bit much.. monthly or quarterly? yes. or a weekly forum poll if need be.

[Magiocracy]

Just a couple of points on this : 1. I agree with the OP completely that the customer's perception is everything. How SOE is internally divided up between the various dev teams should not be of any concern to us paying customers - what matters is the overall end result that's delivered to us. 2. As a matter of business practice (especially in software development) it's always more tempting to add new things than fix existing ones that are broken. Trying to explain to business types (especially marketing people) that resources should be spent on fixing existing stuff that is broke rather than the latest brand new flashy idea is difficult almost everywhere, and I'm sure SOE is no exception. 3. SOE seem to be in love with their Random Number Generator - their solution to just about everything seems to be to add more randomness into the game. The gambling goblins are just the latest incarnation of this. Relying time and time again on the RNG instead of developing real new content is sheer laziness and/or lack of imagination on SOE's part. 4. Although I agree that it's notoriously difficult to gauge what the playerbase want, nevertheless there are some issues that are so blindingly, self-evidently wrong that it's difficult to understand how they aren't SOE's top priority - Old World Raid Mobs are the obvious example. 5. Communication, or lack of it is what drives most players up the wall. I know it's been mentioned before but having an In Development forum where upcoming changes are noted, along with some sort of weekly post from SOE on what they're working on, new ideas etc etc would go a long way to making us forum dwellers feel more informed.

[unundindur]

To the topic starter. You did a marvelous post! Keep up the good work.

[Daish]

Completely agreed, Magio...  to you and the OP, well thought out topics and posts, good stuff!

[TheOnlySariah]

Ok, first of all I don't know why so many are getting touchy about the idea of a poll. I aslo play a game (don't laugh) called the sims 2. Maxis conducts polls on their website and we often see things from the polls implemented in the next EP, which is great imo.  Also, I think it's funny that people assume that only a small minority of the player base ever visits these forums.

           Everyone that plays EQ has a pc and internet has the resources to visit the forums. I would bet that a large portion of the player base do. And if some people can't be bothered to stay informed or to take polls then who cares? I think a poll would be a very good idea and I would be happy to see it. About the armour, I totally agree. I am so sick of seeing everyone in the same thing. I think crafters should have the option of dyeing their wares different colours.