Levels 51-60 spells no longer granted? - Page 3

cr0wangel · 09-10-2005, 12:02 AM

Can someone comfirm if it's all 51-60 spells or only the 3 new spells?

Quote: there is no reason for this change, no fun aspect of it, and they have many more issues to address

/agree

If anyone see a fun aspect of killing mobs over and over, to get faction, to finally get your spell (spell you was supposed to get since you got your level long ago), please post the fun aspect here. Show it to me, so I can have fun with you. Because for now, I see no fun into this, only annoyance.

Iren · 09-10-2005, 01:22 AM

Sorry, but I'm not buying into this BS line about SoE wanting to add more "depth" the game. They took all the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] "depth" out already with this combat revamp. I fail to see how adding a time sink is considered content. Do I really care if I have run and buy a spell? Not really. But don't blow smoke up my *** about how this is adding "realism" to the game. A game that fundamentally relies on killing things that do not exist in reality.

Oh and on a sidenote, for those that claim to be happy about all these changes because raiding is too easy now. Well, what the hell are all the people who could give a **** about raiding suppossed to do? I don't give a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] if it takes you three groups or thirty groups to kill a x4 Epic. I play for my enjoyment, not yours. This game was NOT advertised as non-hardcore raiders need not apply. In fact, it was advertised as the complete opposite. That raiding was not necessary to be successful.

Now, they are rebalancing the entire [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] game based off the top 5% of players wearing the best possible armor and using the best possible versions of their abilities and swinging away with the best possible weapons. This is total bull****. Nothing but bait and ******* switch if you ask me.

enc · 09-10-2005, 01:37 AM

Lady Uaelrea wrote:

enc wrote:
what full horror? do you even have an idea how its going to be implemented?
i hate people saying stop whining before it hits live just like you because what they fail to realise is that test server exists so that people can express their opinion . BUT yelling before even knowing the changes really doesnt help

nec= SOE employee.:smileytongue:

I think you will be the only person to be playing DoF.

:smileysurprised: oh my lol If people leaving are those who yell at the first elusive patch information, then trust me i wont lose much. love your arguments btw

PS: just for the record: I think many changes are bad for the game. such as changing the whole combat system again some days before release just like they did at the end of beta when people kept complaining all the classes looked the same. But yelling on EVERYTHING doesnt help. You can be mad at the company if you think they are ruining a game you like and devoted yourself for a lot of hours. But try to be constructive and focus on changes you EXPERIENCED rather than about one sentence in a patch note.

Message Edited by enc on 09-09-2005 02:43 PM

Message Edited by enc on 09-09-2005 02:44 PM

LokiHellsson · 09-10-2005, 04:47 AM

Sages, Jewelers, Alchemists...what if you can only get your new level 51 warlock spell by talking to a player-sage who bought the sage essentials level 51 from the NPC merchant? You can't currently get to Adept 3 quality without a monster dropping a recipe book and someone harvesting a rare and someone doing a bunch of work to get their skills up to make you the upgrade. So, it doesn't seem like such a big leap to say you can't get AppI without talking to a tradeskiller.That'd actually make the apprentice spell lines worth something. In fact, it might be interesting if it were done this way for every level after 10.Currently, most tradeskill recipes seem...pointless. If this kind of change makes a thousand recipes actually useful...well, I think that's worth an experiment.

kreli · 09-10-2005, 05:59 AM

Nice. 4 days before the expansions goes live when 99% of the people who were going to pre-order already have, they make this change. If I wanted to play EQ1, I would be. I play this game precisely because it's NOT EQ1. Let me see... No locked encounters -> Hello KSing all over again No spells at level -> Hello wasting time to be effective at my level Sweeping combat changes for the sake of changing things -> Just.. why? I am really sick of playing a beta game almost a year after launch. If there's even one more change like this, going from things that were fixed back to broken nonsense that punishes the majority of the player base to appease a few vocal whiners, SOE has seen the last of my money... for any game... ever.

Lady Uaelr · 09-10-2005, 08:04 AM

Cancel your orders of DoF and maybe SOE will rethink the mess they are creating.

Shirodan · 09-10-2005, 08:23 AM

Anyone ever do the Dranik's Loyalist factioning for the Omens of War (EQ1) armor quests... you know, took about 1-2 weeks of nonstop killing... ya..... just something that came to mind...

solereaver · 09-10-2005, 08:31 AM

I like the change. Giving me the spells always felt too easy. The game needs to be a challenge.. and not just in combat situations. Sorry for all those that dont like the change .. but THANK YOU SONY for all the changes! I left 6 months ago because I felt the game was babying everyone and to me ... no challenge =no fun.

Rela · 09-10-2005, 08:39 AM

That's exactly what I did. I cancelled the pre-order of DoF to see what they are going to MAKE us do to get the skills that are fundamental to our class. Pretty sad they will bring back one of the lamest aspects of EQ1... it's the exact reason I cancelled EQ1 and will be another straw on the camel's back for EQ2... let's hope the camel isn't too weak already. If someone can give me one, just one, GOOD REASON why this change was made, I'd be a very happy person. That said, these are NOT GOOD REASONS: 1. To make it more realistic... (huh? make a fantasy game more realistic?) 2. To add "fun" factor... (hate to break it to ya, but that's NOT fun) 3. To give validity to the crafters... (um, what 51+ crafters? the ones that will price gouge when they are the only one making the upgrades?) 4. Because we need yet another quest to add to the almost 3000 others you could be currently doing... (why do we need a quest to actually allow us to do the JOB our CLASS should?) Here are some VALID REASONS, but NOT GOOD REASONS: 1. Just another SoE time sink that they'll try to pawn off as "fun" 2. SoE is just remaking EQ1 to keep the hardcore interested and run off the casual gamer... again... 3. Because they felt like being a jerk to those of us who don't like questing all the time because we don't waste enough time on quests that don't give useful items or decent xp.

Igu · 09-10-2005, 09:01 AM

The only thing I can imagine that Sony is thinking is they can boost the subscription base by making EQ2 more like EQ1. Well They should reconsider this in the post WoW world. Wow has about 9-10 times what EQ1 had in its hay day. This game will not be EQ1 and it will not be WoW. Try to make it something it is not and you will kill it. The example I named previously is a close similarity. The DAoC expansion Trials of Atlantis enraged the User base and it lost a significate percentage of its user base never to get it back again. The paying public is very unforgiving these days...lots of other options.

ke'la · 09-10-2005, 09:59 AM

you know this would be a bad change if it was not for the fact that EVERY other mmoRPG makes you do some form of training befor you LEARN a new spell/CA. and as for why they did not do this for the 1-50 game... probly because if they implented it for that porstion of the game ALL the spells that are New and/or changing with the combate revamp would have to be bought, and thats something that would cause alot of problems PLUS imagin this your go out to Mentor some guildie though a quest(granted your more likly going to PL them though but I digress) but opps you forgot you did not buy that 20-30 Taunt so now you can't taunt, also there is a MAJOR lack of coin in the 1-40 game this could also be a reason why they did not expand it(besides the true reason for making you BUY spells is a Coin sink or Transfer(if you don't buy the one of the city scribes).

Slee · 09-10-2005, 10:20 AM

Nerfing is not a legtimate response to any problem. Taking away, rather than giving, is never apprecitated by your customers. (Customers are those dreadful people who pay your bills and complain all the time. [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] them!)

Example:

I go to a restuarant every weekday for breakfast.

Someone complains that there is "too much food" on the weekly breakfast special.

The restaurant responds by cutting the amount in half, but not lowering the price. Not everyone felt there was too much food in the weekly special - most in fact, felt the amount was just right and loved the weekly special.

The result:

Unhappy customers - the majority of them no longer visit your establishment or buy your food. They feel cheated and won't come back. You make less money and eventually have to shut down your restaurant.

That's my attempt at an analogy. I hope that *someone* in SoE is listening, as apparently, our feedback is being ignored.

Will they ignore it when they don't have jobs anymore because they have no player base or steady income due to their continued nerfage?

Unlike EverQuest1 - this is NOT the only game in town. We have options SoE and we will use them. To me, this does N O T include going back to EQ1 - ever.

We were the willing led by the unwise.

Not this time.

OperationsX · 09-10-2005, 08:19 PM

Sleett wrote:

Nerfing is not a legtimate response to any problem. Taking away, rather than giving, is never apprecitated by your customers. (Customers are those dreadful people who pay your bills and complain all the time. [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] them!)

Example:

I go to a restuarant every weekday for breakfast.

Someone complains that there is "too much food" on the weekly breakfast special.

The restaurant responds by cutting the amount in half, but not lowering the price. Not everyone felt there was too much food in the weekly special - most in fact, felt the amount was just right and loved the weekly special.

The result:

Unhappy customers - the majority of them no longer visit your establishment or buy your food. They feel cheated and won't come back. You make less money and eventually have to shut down your restaurant.

That's my attempt at an analogy. I hope that *someone* in SoE is listening, as apparently, our feedback is being ignored.

Will they ignore it when they don't have jobs anymore because they have no player base or steady income due to their continued nerfage?

Unlike EverQuest1 - this is NOT the only game in town. We have options SoE and we will use them. To me, this does N O T include going back to EQ1 - ever.

We were the willing led by the unwise.

Not this time.

Customers ARE dreadful people who pay my bills and complain all the time. One of the reasons why I left Customer Service after 5 loyal years, haven't regretted it yet. I envy whoever developed LU#13g, they probably had a grin to ear and ear and then quit or something lol. 13g was like the F U that I never gave my place when I quit (I quit peacefully and professionally, aka the boring way :smileysad: )

Ninusar · 09-10-2005, 08:50 PM

--------Gwideon - IF Everquest 2 has not changed it's mission statement, then you are the one who is mistaken.-------- Show me where the EQ2 Mission statement said asnythign about a game made only for soloers and casual players.... You cant... thats because the game was developed for everyone in mind... them adding content does not affect casual players. There is just more to do. Soloing is difficult atm and will be fixed just as it was fixed before (ability and exp wise). So them adding spells that are not just given 2 you..... ---------For casual players... just gives the player more to do now all the game offers something other than just leveling and Doing HQs/Raiding. Because the quests are not going to be epic quests that require a week 2 do with a Raid. ---------For hardcore gamers... They have more high end content..... so whats the reason for all the complaining? i know its not because casual players are upset that they will have 2 play more to get to the top... Because if thats the case your not a "casual player" your a Hardcore wanna-be but for some reason or another, like myself, your game time is limited. If thats the problem its not Sonys problem

Gwide · 09-11-2005, 09:22 AM

Ninusar wrote:

Show me where the EQ2 Mission statement said asnythign about a game made only for soloers and casual players....
You cant... thats because the game was developed for everyone in mind... them adding content does not affect casual players. There is just more to do. Soloing is difficult atm and will be fixed just as it was fixed before (ability and exp wise).

They did not create the game with only soloers and casual players, I never said they did. However, your statement was way off the mark:

Ninusar wrote:

It was designed to be challenging, time consuming and to restate its name "Everquest"=Never ending.. However it was also brought 2 SOE's attention that there was a grp of players that loved 2 solo or did not have the time to grp and Raid... so they have built in features to accomidate those players...

No, it wasn't. It was supposed to be a direct competitor to WoW, easy to get into, less time involvement than EQLive. Casual play style was NOT an after thought, it was the main target audience. This was not supposed to be evergrind nor everraid, this was supposed to be EQ "Light" all the fun, minus the tedium and agravation.

Ninusar wrote:

If you want a game u can sit down and play and its enjoyable and doesnt take much work... u should have went with WoW not EQ2....

You are way off base. SOE would love to draw WoW clients to EQ2, rather than drive thier existing clients to WoW. If thier customers see the changes as a shift toward the existing EQLive philosphy of lots of work for little progress, they will indeed lose clients to other games.

Ninusar wrote:

So them adding spells that are not just given 2 you.....

---------For casual players... just gives the player more to do now all the game offers something other than just leveling and Doing HQs/Raiding. Because the quests are not going to be epic quests that require a week 2 do with a Raid.

---------For hardcore gamers... They have more high end content.....

so whats the reason for all the complaining? i know its not because casual players are upset that they will have 2 play more to get to the top... Because if thats the case your not a "casual player" your a Hardcore wanna-be but for some reason or another, like myself, your game time is limited. If thats the problem its not Sonys problem

For every level up to 50 they have offered a spell automatically at level that you could upgrade if you wanted. This change represents a shift from that concept, a shift closer to the EQLive philosophy. Why? (rhetorical)

Get to the top? Hard core wanna be? It is not important to get to the top. It is important to have fun along the way. I don't want mundane boring faction grinds placed in the way just to fill my time. Thats EQLive, not EQ2. If they make EQ2 into the grind that EQLive was, they deserve the casual's wrath because we were told it was going to be different for EQ2.

Message Edited by Gwideon on 09-11-2005 12:36 AM

SniperKitty · 09-11-2005, 06:31 PM

Get to the top? Hard core wanna be? It is not important to get to the top. It is important to have fun along the way. I don't want mundane boring faction grinds placed in the way just to fill my time. Thats EQLive, not EQ2. If they make EQ2 into the grind that EQLive was, they deserve the casual's wrath because we were told it was going to be different for EQ2. - Gwideon

Guess what, in Bloodline Chronicles and Splitpaw Saga, you had a spell you had to earn and didn't get automatically when you reached that level. You earned it by questing and gaining faction with the merchant who sells the spell. It'll be the same way in DoF. It's the only way SOE will get a majority of the idiots to go to DoF content, instead of buying DoF and Harclaving their way to sixty or grinding in PF/LS/SE. Note, these spells will also be dropping off mobs as Adept 1's and Master 1's and you can learn them that way too.I was the epitome of casual in EQLive. I don't mind working for my rewards, but I want there to be a challenge to it. Grind is bad. Challenge is good. As long as the challenge isn't hair pulling frustration. I liked the access quest for Splitpaw. I liked the access quest for Bloodline Chronicles. Progressive instanced zones that were a challenge without making them a grind heavy "look for the rare drop off the rare mob" type.EQ2 is very accessable to the casual gamer. Moreso now, than at release. Aside from the difficulty of combat and guardians being the only raid tank, I'm pretty happy with EQ2. They're fixing combat and hopefully that will fix the raid tank problem too. Guardians shouldn't be the only one allowed to tank all the raid content.

BigRedWo · 09-11-2005, 07:10 PM

Sometimes I feel more like a software tester than a gamer. :smileyindifferent:

Ydiss · 09-11-2005, 08:27 PM

Daishar wrote:

the biggest problem i have is the fact that 4 DAYS before release, they just made the largest sweeping change to the combat revamp in the last 5 months...

when were they planning on testing it? oh wait, thats what the live servers are for... sigh...

how were they even planning on testing whether or not this system even works? better hurry....

Message Edited by Daishar on 09-08-2005 11:38 PM

You really are just spamming now. Is your own thread about this not enough for you? This thread is talking about the way spells are granted in tier 6, not how the game is being tested.

On topic, I don't really think it'll be tedious or arduous to gain abilities post 50. As already suggested it's just a case of getting them from NPCs. Sniperkitty has produced probably the most sensible reason. With Splitpaw players could conveivably ignore all the tier 6 content in DOF, so the chances are we will have to perform simple quests that involve naturally killing tier 6 content anyway.

Makes perfect sense to me. Whether it'll add to the challenge and the fun of the game, I'll have to wait and see.

Message Edited by Ydiss on 09-11-2005 09:59 AM

Ydiss · 09-11-2005, 08:56 PM

Sleett wrote:

Nerfing is not a legtimate response to any problem. Taking away, rather than giving, is never apprecitated by your customers. (Customers are those dreadful people who pay your bills and complain all the time. [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] them!)

Example:

I go to a restuarant every weekday for breakfast.

Someone complains that there is "too much food" on the weekly breakfast special.

The restaurant responds by cutting the amount in half, but not lowering the price. Not everyone felt there was too much food in the weekly special - most in fact, felt the amount was just right and loved the weekly special.

The result:

Unhappy customers - the majority of them no longer visit your establishment or buy your food. They feel cheated and won't come back. You make less money and eventually have to shut down your restaurant.

That's my attempt at an analogy. I hope that *someone* in SoE is listening, as apparently, our feedback is being ignored.

Will they ignore it when they don't have jobs anymore because they have no player base or steady income due to their continued nerfage?

Unlike EverQuest1 - this is NOT the only game in town. We have options SoE and we will use them. To me, this does N O T include going back to EQ1 - ever.

We were the willing led by the unwise.

Not this time.

Your analogy would only be relevant if your point of view of the game were shared by everyone. Some people actually like the changes, some are looking forward to them.

At any rate, we are not paying for quantity, we are playing a game that is supposed to be a challenge. Where SOE feel the challenge is reduced they reserve the right to change whatever they like to balance the challenge for all that play the game. In fact, from their point of view, they are trying to improve the quality of their product - that you feel they're reducing it your opinion.

By your analogy, well it's not an analogy because the service a restaurant provides bears no comparisons to that of an online game. All you've said is "If a company upsets their customers they will leave/not buy the product", which is a bit of a no-brainer. You just assume that because you don't like the changes that everyone else feels the same way (after all, no one would really like to pay the same for less food, would they?).

And if you see this as a nerf... Well that's another story. As someone posted above, this is yet another over-reaction by players who seem to be subscribed to all of the nagative posts on this forum (I've already noticed a small collection of users that frequent all of the negative posts, most of whom seem outraged about everything, including minute things like this, urging them to post about it to show SOE they're angry about the game in particular).

At any rate, as we progress upwards through the tiers you're all going to have to expect some things to change. I disagree that this change is just "to make EQ2 like EQ1 to get more players in". If that were the case they'd have changed every tier, not just 6. Think about it for a moment.

Message Edited by Ydiss on 09-11-2005 10:00 AM

Gwide · 09-11-2005, 11:16 PM

SniperKitty wrote:

Get to the top? Hard core wanna be? It is not important to get to the top. It is important to have fun along the way. I don't want mundane boring faction grinds placed in the way just to fill my time. Thats EQLive, not EQ2. If they make EQ2 into the grind that EQLive was, they deserve the casual's wrath because we were told it was going to be different for EQ2. - Gwideon

Guess what, in Bloodline Chronicles and Splitpaw Saga, you had a spell you had to earn and didn't get automatically when you reached that level. You earned it by questing and gaining faction with the merchant who sells the spell. It'll be the same way in DoF. It's the only way SOE will get a majority of the idiots to go to DoF content, instead of buying DoF and Harclaving their way to sixty or grinding in PF/LS/SE. Note, these spells will also be dropping off mobs as Adept 1's and Master 1's and you can learn them that way too.

When was the last time you dinged a level in EQ2, and didn't recieve a spell upon level? Both BLC and SPS were expansion packs, DoF is the first full expansion that increased levels. It is core EQ2.

Players should be encouraged to go into DoF because it is fun content, not forced to in order to progressed. Why is it so important to you to make sure people don't Harclave to 60? If they want to do that, I don't see the harm. I didn't do BLC nor SPS just to get the spells, I played them because they were fun (well at least mst of it).

SniperKitty wrote:

I was the epitome of casual in EQLive. I don't mind working for my rewards, but I want there to be a challenge to it. Grind is bad. Challenge is good. As long as the challenge isn't hair pulling frustration. I liked the access quest for Splitpaw. I liked the access quest for Bloodline Chronicles. Progressive instanced zones that were a challenge without making them a grind heavy "look for the rare drop off the rare mob" type.

EQ2 is very accessable to the casual gamer. Moreso now, than at release. Aside from the difficulty of combat and guardians being the only raid tank, I'm pretty happy with EQ2. They're fixing combat and hopefully that will fix the raid tank problem too. Guardians shouldn't be the only one allowed to tank all the raid content.

I don't mind working for rewards either, and I don't disagree with anything you have said here. If the faction work is fun questing and not something just thrown in to slow progress, I won't be upset. However, if Beta had the spells granted at level until recently, it sounds like this change might be that.

I guess we will see what the final product looks like tomorrow.

Ninusar · 09-12-2005, 04:46 AM

To Clarify this post, Text in white are my previous posts that were brought up, Red were posts from Gwideon, and the blue text is my response Ninusar wrote: Show me where the EQ2 Mission statement said asnythign about a game made only for soloers and casual players.... You cant... thats because the game was developed for everyone in mind... them adding content does not affect casual players. There is just more to do. Soloing is difficult atm and will be fixed just as it was fixed before (ability and exp wise).

They did not create the game with only soloers and casual players, I never said they did. However, your statement was way off the mark: Your Correct You did not specificly say soloers... your statements talk about Casual gamers and the solo-ability in the game... (you cant argue with that statement read all of your arguements) No mater how you look at it your incorrcet, The game like i said was made for everyone. them making the game a little more challengeing does not affect the game as a whole for casual gamers nor soloers, Both adventure packs have been made mostly for the casual gamer... The expansion pack however has to be more marketable and in some way, other than leveling and newmobs, bring something new to the table... if SOE does it in some extreme mannor please do your complaining after its been released. (There is no arguement to that, complainging now does nuthing they are not goin 2 change it before its release based on complaints of 10 out of the 500000+ ppl who play)

Ninusar wrote:
It was designed to be challenging, time consuming and to restate its name "Everquest"=Never ending.. However it was also brought 2 SOE's attention that there was a grp of players that loved 2 solo or did not have the time to grp and Raid... so they have built in features to accomidate those players...

oN, it wasn't. It was supposed to be a direct competitor to WoW, easy to get into, less time involvement than EQLive. Casual play style was NOT an after thought, it was the main target audience. This was not supposed to be evergrind nor everraid, this was supposed to be EQ "Light" all the fun, minus the tedium and agravation. Once again you provide no proof for what you say. go 2 Gamespy and look up its reveiws and interviews with creators. Everquest was Made to be and i quote."The most immersive MMO ever created" for those who dont know what that word is here are some Synonyms absorbed, bound up, buried, busy, consumed, deep, engaged, engrossed, intent, into, mesmerized, occupied, preoccupied, rapt, really into, spellbound, taken up, tied up, turned on, wrapped, wrapped up So once again your statement on its purpose is false (if you want to argue that agian please show some sort of proof other than, "your wrong" As for your idea that it was made 2 be a easy goin game 2 compete with other like WOW... well once again buddy ur Wrong. EQ2 was made becasue Sony had to have an Answer to all of the titles that were goin 2 be released. you cant put a game 6 years old up agaist games that are using new tecnology as your sole MMO.

Ninusar wrote:
If you want a game u can sit down and play and its enjoyable and doesnt take much work... u should have went with WoW not EQ2....

You are way off base. SOE would love to draw WoW clients to EQ2, rather than drive thier existing clients to WoW. If thier customers see the changes as a shift toward the existing EQLive philosphy of lots of work for little progress, they will indeed lose clients to other games. Briliant statement... SOE wants customers and doesnt want to lose them.... If only someone would have realized that sooner... The people that SOE want the people that play a game and stay for 5 years. and they are the only ones who can say, so far, that they have successfully done that. and its not because they had a game that was easy 2 do and made everyone feel warm inside because they got everything they wanted without doing a little grinding. Fun is what you make it not what they give you.... if you enjoy takin it easy,, take it easy,,,, if u enjoy grinding... well then grind.... and if u just cant stand the game then find one u like. and u cant say the game isnt enjoyable this many people dont play a game when its not.

Ninusar wrote:So them adding spells that are not just given 2 you.....---------For casual players... just gives the player more to do now all the game offers something other than just leveling and Doing HQs/Raiding. Because the quests are not going to be epic quests that require a week 2 do with a Raid. ---------For hardcore gamers... They have more high end content.....so whats the reason for all the complaining? i know its not because casual players are upset that they will have 2 play more to get to the top... Because if thats the case your not a "casual player" your a Hardcore wanna-be but for some reason or another, like myself, your game time is limited. If thats the problem its not Sonys problem

For every level up to 50 they have offered a spell automatically at level that you could upgrade if you wanted. This change represents a shift from that concept, a shift closer to the EQLive philosophy. Why? (rhetorical)

Get to the top? Hard core wanna be? It is not important to get to the top. It is important to have fun along the way. I don't want mundane boring faction grinds placed in the way just to fill my time. Thats EQLive, not EQ2. If they make EQ2 into the grind that EQLive was, they deserve the casual's wrath because we were told it was going to be different for EQ2.

Once again your complaining... You can have all the fun you want... only 3 of the 10 new spells are differnt from the normal class upgrades u get in you spell llines every 14 levels.... if you dont wanna do quests or what ever it will require then use your old spells that have been upgraded (adept 3 is better 9 times out of 10 then its advanced counterparts app1) so no one is forcing you to do anything you can be efficent at yout class without being uber... once your 60 u can get your spells if you want casualy because other than raiding you have nuthing to do... so SOE isnt punishing anyone in this instances they are just giveing you more to do once you level. So Gwideon you are worrying about nuthing... the game will go where the money is at... if its high end content then well it will go there... what ever makes the money is what will last. (and u cant argue with that eather)

Message Edited by Ninusar on 09-12-2005 05:31 AM

Message Edited by Ninusar on 09-12-2005 05:35 AM

Aedos · 09-12-2005, 11:39 AM

You are way off base. SOE would love to draw WoW clients to EQ2, rather than drive thier existing clients to WoW. If thier customers see the changes as a shift toward the existing EQLive philosphy of lots of work for little progress, they will indeed lose clients to other games.

Funny that you would use WoW as example. Because in WoW you dont get your spells automatically on lvl up and you cant even buy some class defining abilities like warlock pets from spell vendors but you need to quest for them. So I guess EQ2 is going to right direction then ? :p

Message Edited by Aedosen on 09-12-2005 10:42 AM

Ninusar · 09-12-2005, 04:34 PM

Aedosen---------------Funny that you would use WoW as example. Because in WoW you dont get your spells automatically on lvl up and you cant even buy some class defining abilities like warlock pets from spell vendors but you need to quest for them. So I guess EQ2 is going to right direction then ?

---------- Nice point :smileywink:

chanaho · 09-12-2005, 05:49 PM

Instead of flaming each others viewpoints, how about everybody try to see each others concerns and post something constructive. There are a number of people that do not want to have to find all their spells and having them at level up is the way they like it. I see nothing wrong with this as looking back there are 3 spells I wouldnt have even known about had I not checked O-gaming. I have been getting all my spells at certain levels..then I find, in O-gaming, one that I can buy from the broker (not npc's) and 4 levels after that I actually found one for sale. (the other 2 were from the bloodline/splitpaw saga) So based on this, how is anybody going to know what they are entitled to get whether it is purchased from an npc or quested...which npc to buy from or get the quest from? I personally would love it if i picked, say faction A, and had one NPC from that faction I could go to who was a Master Ranger and handled All ranger trainings (insert your class here) and you check back to them now and again and they will offer questing that will get you your new spells. However it should not be something that I cant do for another 3 levels due to difficulty and should not be a drawn out quest where you end up finishing it ...in 3 levels but should be something fairly quick but satisfying when complete where you feel you earned it. This is what I think the factions allignment in DOF is bringing.....( I could be wrong) Take a look at any class and what do you see? Besides from some weapon/armor differences there is really no difference...all CA's are the same...0-50 of any particular class. In DOF, what faction your with will give you 3 skills that are quite different from the other factions hence my level 60 Ranger will now have some skills that no other Ranger has... and they will have skills that I dont have. Now there will be actually some variation between like classes and each will have something unique.

Ninusar · 09-12-2005, 06:04 PM

---------------------- Instead of flaming each others viewpoints, how about everybody try to see each others concerns and post something constructive.--------------------- In a perfect wold thats how it would be but people complain and make off the wall statements that cause people to lock up in fear and do things like cancel thier pre-order.... The idea that the spells have 2 be obtained is not a new idea, its not an obserd idea, and its not a game altering idea, there for its not worth pulling the people who read fourms on occasion into the "SOE hates casual players they dont care about us" arguement.. so if someone doesnt speak up it is assumed to be the truth.... To agree with you the spells tasks/quests/or what ever it may be should not be harder to do then the spells worth... there is no reason to have to put 20+ hours into a dot or a heal that isnt that big of an upgrade to the spells already aquired for nuthing

cr0wangel · 09-12-2005, 06:20 PM

Here an exemple of how I see this, let's suppose you play a priest and that this system is in fonction for every level. I believe it will be annoying, if at level 15 they force you to kill 5000 orcs to be able to scribe your healing spell. What if you don't enjoy killing orcs? You will have to do it because you want your spell.

No game should force players to do something that may be boring.

So far, only a very few quests were ''enforced''. On the island of refuge, to help learn the game, the citizenship quest, the quest level 10 and level 20. That's all. All others quests are optional and the player is totally free to do them or refuse. (Heritage quests, armor quests, all optional). Why force us to get factions? It's just not good. It's simply a way to force us to play in that zone.

Gwide · 09-13-2005, 02:17 AM

Ninusar wrote:

Once again you provide no proof for what you say. go 2 Gamespy and look up its reveiws and interviews with creators. Everquest was Made to be and i quote."The most immersive MMO ever created" for those who dont know what that word is here are some Synonyms
absorbed, bound up, buried, busy, consumed, deep, engaged, engrossed, intent, into, mesmerized, occupied, preoccupied, rapt, really into, spellbound, taken up, tied up, turned on, wrapped, wrapped up
So once again your statement on its purpose is false (if you want to argue that agian please show some sort of proof other than, "your wrong"
As for your idea that it was made 2 be a easy goin game 2 compete with other like WOW... well once again buddy ur Wrong. EQ2 was made becasue Sony had to have an Answer to all of the titles that were goin 2 be released. you cant put a game 6 years old up agaist games that are using new tecnology as your sole MMO.

John Smedley
President, Sony Online Entertainment wrote:

With the launch of EverQuest II, our goal was to refine EverQuest… to distill the things that made EverQuest great, but also to add its own flavor and gameplay style. I think it's fair to say we also needed to aim for a more casual gamer… and make the game appeal to people that may not have the same amount of time they had when EverQuest first came out. As a company we needed to also appeal to a wider base of people. I think you can see from the universal appeal of the Lord of the Rings books (and oh yeah, the movies too…) fantasy worlds are what we can all call "mass market". I'm really proud of EverQuest II and I honestly believe we delivered on our goals of making an incredibly fun and immersive world that our players want to be a part of and make their own.

Now what's been interesting from our perspective is what really serious competition is doing to the online gaming space. World of Warcraft has come on the scene and is doing awesome. Kudos to Blizzard on what I think is a spectacular game. I've played the heck out of it, and I love it (as have many people here at SOE). To a game developer, having another game developer play your game is the ultimate compliment… so to the folks at Blizzard we say "Nicely done".

But don't think for a second that we don't see WoW as both a great game AND Blizzard as serious competition.

Personally… I'm glad they are out there. They keep us honest. They keep us focused and they force us to play with our 'A' game. They've certainly opened some eyes in our company to styles of gameplay that are different than we would have come up with inside SOE. I hope they're also opening up the eyes of other MMO developers that the 'old school' probably won't cut it any more. I'm glad that we went in the direction we did with EQ II because had we stuck with making an even "harder core" game, I think bad things would have happened. We need to be about larger scale mass-entertainment… because that's what online gaming is slowly becoming. Our games just need to be fun… and easy to get into.

Now I am sure when John Smedley said: I think it's fair to say we also needed to aim for a more casual gamer… and make the game appeal to people that may not have the same amount of time they had when EverQuest first came out. As a company we needed to also appeal to a wider base of people. Perhaps he really meant avid gamer with boat loads of time to throw at a hobby.

And when he said: But don't think for a second that we don't see WoW as both a great game AND Blizzard as serious competition. He really meant that he has no intention of trying to compete with WoW for the casual and solo player base.

And when he said: I hope they're also opening up the eyes of other MMO developers that the 'old school' probably won't cut it any more. I'm glad that we went in the direction we did with EQ II because had we stuck with making an even "harder core" game, I think bad things would have happened. He meant "more of the same" for EQ2. Also, they wanted to create a direct competor to their existing product EQLive (even though it was denied repeatedly). I also by hard-core being a bad way to go, he really meant awesome way to go.

And when he said: We need to be about larger scale mass-entertainment… because that's what online gaming is slowly becoming. He really believes that the big market is in hard core gamers wanting repeated boring grinding and repetitive game play.

And when he said: Our games just need to be fun… and easy to get into. He really meant that gamers are truly sadomasochists desiring long drawn out cryptic faction grinds in order to get the most basic of game rewards.

Guess I had it totally wrong.

Gwide · 09-13-2005, 02:28 AM

Ninusar wrote:
oN, it wasn't. It was supposed to be a direct competitor to WoW, easy to get into, less time involvement than EQLive. Casual play style was NOT an after thought, it was the main target audience. This was not supposed to be evergrind nor everraid, this was supposed to be EQ "Light" all the fun, minus the tedium and agravation.

Once again you provide no proof for what you say. go 2 Gamespy and look up its reveiws and interviews with creators. Everquest was Made to be and i quote."The most immersive MMO ever created" for those who dont know what that word is here are some Synonyms
absorbed, bound up, buried, busy, consumed, deep, engaged, engrossed, intent, into, mesmerized, occupied, preoccupied, rapt, really into, spellbound, taken up, tied up, turned on, wrapped, wrapped up
So once again your statement on its purpose is false (if you want to argue that agian please show some sort of proof other than, "your wrong"
As for your idea that it was made 2 be a easy goin game 2 compete with other like WOW... well once again buddy ur Wrong. EQ2 was made becasue Sony had to have an Answer to all of the titles that were goin 2 be released. you cant put a game 6 years old up agaist games that are using new tecnology as your sole MMO.

John Smedley
President, Sony Online Entertainment wrote:

With the launch of EverQuest II, our goal was to refine EverQuest… to distill the things that made EverQuest great, but also to add its own flavor and gameplay style. I think it's fair to say we also needed to aim for a more casual gamer… and make the game appeal to people that may not have the same amount of time they had when EverQuest first came out. As a company we needed to also appeal to a wider base of people. I think you can see from the universal appeal of the Lord of the Rings books (and oh yeah, the movies too…) fantasy worlds are what we can all call "mass market". I'm really proud of EverQuest II and I honestly believe we delivered on our goals of making an incredibly fun and immersive world that our players want to be a part of and make their own.

Now what's been interesting from our perspective is what really serious competition is doing to the online gaming space. World of Warcraft has come on the scene and is doing awesome. Kudos to Blizzard on what I think is a spectacular game. I've played the heck out of it, and I love it (as have many people here at SOE). To a game developer, having another game developer play your game is the ultimate compliment… so to the folks at Blizzard we say "Nicely done".

But don't think for a second that we don't see WoW as both a great game AND Blizzard as serious competition.

Personally… I'm glad they are out there. They keep us honest. They keep us focused and they force us to play with our 'A' game. They've certainly opened some eyes in our company to styles of gameplay that are different than we would have come up with inside SOE. I hope they're also opening up the eyes of other MMO developers that the 'old school' probably won't cut it any more. I'm glad that we went in the direction we did with EQ II because had we stuck with making an even "harder core" game, I think bad things would have happened. We need to be about larger scale mass-entertainment… because that's what online gaming is slowly becoming. Our games just need to be fun… and easy to get into.

Sorry, I thought I had quoted this once before to back up my statements.

Ninusar · 09-13-2005, 03:53 AM

Once again, thanks for proving my point Gwideon. He said in his letter he wanted a game that was open to more than just hardcore gamers. So, the game, like I said, was made with everyone in mind.Adding of spell quests does not make EQ2 a hardcore grind game. The game simply has a little more depth. And if you want to compare it to WOW, then just for the record you should know there are abilities such as pets that have to be quested. No one ever said that EQ2 was for the Hardcore gamer... it was just pointed out that there are others that arnt so laid back that enjoy content as well. No where in this letter does he say EQ2 is made for the people who like to get everythign for nothing and love to complain about a challenge when its presented. So once again thanks for a worthless post that proves nothing.

Ninusar · 09-13-2005, 04:03 AM

Gwideon- Guys the girlfrind had something to say on the topic so they keyboard is all her's (dont hold me accountable for this lol "If you spend enough time playing this game to want to post messages and go through to other websites to find statements and quotes from other people about the game, then you should not have a problem spending the time on the game to put forth the effort to go through the quests to get your spells- quit whinning." She does bring up a very valid point... 2 be more blunt then her i thiink shes tryin 2 say if u used all the time u spend crying on the fourms to actually play the game you would be so uber it wouldnt matter to you what they added.

09-10-2005, 01:37 AM	#63
enc Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 61	Lady Uaelrea wrote: enc wrote: what full horror? do you even have an idea how its going to be implemented? i hate people saying stop whining before it hits live just like you because what they fail to realise is that test server exists so that people can express their opinion . BUT yelling before even knowing the changes really doesnt help nec= SOE employee.:smileytongue: I think you will be the only person to be playing DoF. :smileysurprised: oh my lol If people leaving are those who yell at the first elusive patch information, then trust me i wont lose much. love your arguments btw PS: just for the record: I think many changes are bad for the game. such as changing the whole combat system again some days before release just like they did at the end of beta when people kept complaining all the classes looked the same. But yelling on EVERYTHING doesnt help. You can be mad at the company if you think they are ruining a game you like and devoted yourself for a lot of hours. But try to be constructive and focus on changes you EXPERIENCED rather than about one sentence in a patch note. Message Edited by enc on 09-09-2005 02:43 PM Message Edited by enc on 09-09-2005 02:44 PM

09-10-2005, 08:23 AM	#67
Shirodan Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 100	Anyone ever do the Dranik's Loyalist factioning for the Omens of War (EQ1) armor quests... you know, took about 1-2 weeks of nonstop killing... ya..... just something that came to mind... __________________ Pestilence, the gift that keeps on giving. The larger the circle of light, the greater the circumference of the darkness surrounding it. Manis L'teth, 80th Shadowknight

09-10-2005, 08:39 AM	#69
Rela General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	That's exactly what I did. I cancelled the pre-order of DoF to see what they are going to MAKE us do to get the skills that are fundamental to our class. Pretty sad they will bring back one of the lamest aspects of EQ1... it's the exact reason I cancelled EQ1 and will be another straw on the camel's back for EQ2... let's hope the camel isn't too weak already. If someone can give me one, just one, GOOD REASON why this change was made, I'd be a very happy person. That said, these are NOT GOOD REASONS: 1. To make it more realistic... (huh? make a fantasy game more realistic?) 2. To add "fun" factor... (hate to break it to ya, but that's NOT fun) 3. To give validity to the crafters... (um, what 51+ crafters? the ones that will price gouge when they are the only one making the upgrades?) 4. Because we need yet another quest to add to the almost 3000 others you could be currently doing... (why do we need a quest to actually allow us to do the JOB our CLASS should?) Here are some VALID REASONS, but NOT GOOD REASONS: 1. Just another SoE time sink that they'll try to pawn off as "fun" 2. SoE is just remaking EQ1 to keep the hardcore interested and run off the casual gamer... again... 3. Because they felt like being a jerk to those of us who don't like questing all the time because we don't waste enough time on quests that don't give useful items or decent xp. __________________ Iriax - 60 Swashy - Permafrost Relaeh - 60 Templar - Permafrost

09-10-2005, 09:59 AM	#71
ke'la Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,445	you know this would be a bad change if it was not for the fact that EVERY other mmoRPG makes you do some form of training befor you LEARN a new spell/CA. and as for why they did not do this for the 1-50 game... probly because if they implented it for that porstion of the game ALL the spells that are New and/or changing with the combate revamp would have to be bought, and thats something that would cause alot of problems PLUS imagin this your go out to Mentor some guildie though a quest(granted your more likly going to PL them though but I digress) but opps you forgot you did not buy that 20-30 Taunt so now you can't taunt, also there is a MAJOR lack of coin in the 1-40 game this could also be a reason why they did not expand it(besides the true reason for making you BUY spells is a Coin sink or Transfer(if you don't buy the one of the city scribes). __________________

09-10-2005, 08:19 PM	#73
OperationsX Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 214	Sleett wrote: Nerfing is not a legtimate response to any problem. Taking away, rather than giving, is never apprecitated by your customers. (Customers are those dreadful people who pay your bills and complain all the time. [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] them!) Example: I go to a restuarant every weekday for breakfast. Someone complains that there is "too much food" on the weekly breakfast special. The restaurant responds by cutting the amount in half, but not lowering the price. Not everyone felt there was too much food in the weekly special - most in fact, felt the amount was just right and loved the weekly special. The result: Unhappy customers - the majority of them no longer visit your establishment or buy your food. They feel cheated and won't come back. You make less money and eventually have to shut down your restaurant. That's my attempt at an analogy. I hope that someone in SoE is listening, as apparently, our feedback is being ignored. Will they ignore it when they don't have jobs anymore because they have no player base or steady income due to their continued nerfage? Unlike EverQuest1 - this is NOT the only game in town. We have options SoE and we will use them. To me, this does N O T include going back to EQ1 - ever. We were the willing led by the unwise. Not this time. Customers ARE dreadful people who pay my bills and complain all the time. One of the reasons why I left Customer Service after 5 loyal years, haven't regretted it yet. I envy whoever developed LU#13g, they probably had a grin to ear and ear and then quit or something lol. 13g was like the F U that I never gave my place when I quit (I quit peacefully and professionally, aka the boring way :smileysad: )

09-10-2005, 12:02 AM	#61
cr0wangel Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 594	Can someone comfirm if it's all 51-60 spells or only the 3 new spells? Quote: there is no reason for this change, no fun aspect of it, and they have many more issues to address /agree If anyone see a fun aspect of killing mobs over and over, to get faction, to finally get your spell (spell you was supposed to get since you got your level long ago), please post the fun aspect here. Show it to me, so I can have fun with you. Because for now, I see no fun into this, only annoyance.

09-10-2005, 01:22 AM	#62
Iren Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 51	Sorry, but I'm not buying into this BS line about SoE wanting to add more "depth" the game. They took all the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] "depth" out already with this combat revamp. I fail to see how adding a time sink is considered content. Do I really care if I have run and buy a spell? Not really. But don't blow smoke up my * about how this is adding "realism" to the game. A game that fundamentally relies on killing things that do not exist in reality. Oh and on a sidenote, for those that claim to be happy about all these changes because raiding is too easy now. Well, what the hell are all the people who could give a about raiding suppossed to do? I don't give a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] if it takes you three groups or thirty groups to kill a x4 Epic. I play for my enjoyment, not yours. This game was NOT advertised as non-hardcore raiders need not apply. In fact, it was advertised as the complete opposite. That raiding was not necessary to be successful. Now, they are rebalancing the entire [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] game based off the top 5% of players wearing the best possible armor and using the best possible versions of their abilities and swinging away with the best possible weapons. This is total bull. Nothing but bait and ***** switch if you ask me.

09-10-2005, 04:47 AM	#64
LokiHellsson Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 157	Sages, Jewelers, Alchemists...what if you can only get your new level 51 warlock spell by talking to a player-sage who bought the sage essentials level 51 from the NPC merchant? You can't currently get to Adept 3 quality without a monster dropping a recipe book and someone harvesting a rare and someone doing a bunch of work to get their skills up to make you the upgrade. So, it doesn't seem like such a big leap to say you can't get AppI without talking to a tradeskiller.That'd actually make the apprentice spell lines worth something. In fact, it might be interesting if it were done this way for every level after 10.Currently, most tradeskill recipes seem...pointless. If this kind of change makes a thousand recipes actually useful...well, I think that's worth an experiment.

09-10-2005, 05:59 AM	#65
kreli Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 19	Nice. 4 days before the expansions goes live when 99% of the people who were going to pre-order already have, they make this change. If I wanted to play EQ1, I would be. I play this game precisely because it's NOT EQ1. Let me see... No locked encounters -> Hello KSing all over again No spells at level -> Hello wasting time to be effective at my level Sweeping combat changes for the sake of changing things -> Just.. why? I am really sick of playing a beta game almost a year after launch. If there's even one more change like this, going from things that were fixed back to broken nonsense that punishes the majority of the player base to appease a few vocal whiners, SOE has seen the last of my money... for any game... ever.

09-10-2005, 08:04 AM	#66
Lady Uaelr General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 476	Cancel your orders of DoF and maybe SOE will rethink the mess they are creating.

09-10-2005, 08:31 AM	#68
solereaver Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2	I like the change. Giving me the spells always felt too easy. The game needs to be a challenge.. and not just in combat situations. Sorry for all those that dont like the change .. but THANK YOU SONY for all the changes! I left 6 months ago because I felt the game was babying everyone and to me ... no challenge =no fun.

09-10-2005, 09:01 AM	#70
Igu Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 188	The only thing I can imagine that Sony is thinking is they can boost the subscription base by making EQ2 more like EQ1. Well They should reconsider this in the post WoW world. Wow has about 9-10 times what EQ1 had in its hay day. This game will not be EQ1 and it will not be WoW. Try to make it something it is not and you will kill it. The example I named previously is a close similarity. The DAoC expansion Trials of Atlantis enraged the User base and it lost a significate percentage of its user base never to get it back again. The paying public is very unforgiving these days...lots of other options.

09-10-2005, 10:20 AM	#72
Slee Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3	Nerfing is not a legtimate response to any problem. Taking away, rather than giving, is never apprecitated by your customers. (Customers are those dreadful people who pay your bills and complain all the time. [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] them!) Example: I go to a restuarant every weekday for breakfast. Someone complains that there is "too much food" on the weekly breakfast special. The restaurant responds by cutting the amount in half, but not lowering the price. Not everyone felt there was too much food in the weekly special - most in fact, felt the amount was just right and loved the weekly special. The result: Unhappy customers - the majority of them no longer visit your establishment or buy your food. They feel cheated and won't come back. You make less money and eventually have to shut down your restaurant. That's my attempt at an analogy. I hope that someone in SoE is listening, as apparently, our feedback is being ignored. Will they ignore it when they don't have jobs anymore because they have no player base or steady income due to their continued nerfage? Unlike EverQuest1 - this is NOT the only game in town. We have options SoE and we will use them. To me, this does N O T include going back to EQ1 - ever. We were the willing led by the unwise. Not this time.

09-10-2005, 08:50 PM	#74
Ninusar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 61	--------Gwideon - IF Everquest 2 has not changed it's mission statement, then you are the one who is mistaken.-------- Show me where the EQ2 Mission statement said asnythign about a game made only for soloers and casual players.... You cant... thats because the game was developed for everyone in mind... them adding content does not affect casual players. There is just more to do. Soloing is difficult atm and will be fixed just as it was fixed before (ability and exp wise). So them adding spells that are not just given 2 you..... ---------For casual players... just gives the player more to do now all the game offers something other than just leveling and Doing HQs/Raiding. Because the quests are not going to be epic quests that require a week 2 do with a Raid. ---------For hardcore gamers... They have more high end content..... so whats the reason for all the complaining? i know its not because casual players are upset that they will have 2 play more to get to the top... Because if thats the case your not a "casual player" your a Hardcore wanna-be but for some reason or another, like myself, your game time is limited. If thats the problem its not Sonys problem

09-11-2005, 09:22 AM	#75
Gwide Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 86	Ninusar wrote: Show me where the EQ2 Mission statement said asnythign about a game made only for soloers and casual players.... You cant... thats because the game was developed for everyone in mind... them adding content does not affect casual players. There is just more to do. Soloing is difficult atm and will be fixed just as it was fixed before (ability and exp wise). They did not create the game with only soloers and casual players, I never said they did. However, your statement was way off the mark: Ninusar wrote: It was designed to be challenging, time consuming and to restate its name "Everquest"=Never ending.. However it was also brought 2 SOE's attention that there was a grp of players that loved 2 solo or did not have the time to grp and Raid... so they have built in features to accomidate those players... No, it wasn't. It was supposed to be a direct competitor to WoW, easy to get into, less time involvement than EQLive. Casual play style was NOT an after thought, it was the main target audience. This was not supposed to be evergrind nor everraid, this was supposed to be EQ "Light" all the fun, minus the tedium and agravation. Ninusar wrote: If you want a game u can sit down and play and its enjoyable and doesnt take much work... u should have went with WoW not EQ2.... You are way off base. SOE would love to draw WoW clients to EQ2, rather than drive thier existing clients to WoW. If thier customers see the changes as a shift toward the existing EQLive philosphy of lots of work for little progress, they will indeed lose clients to other games. Ninusar wrote: So them adding spells that are not just given 2 you..... ---------For casual players... just gives the player more to do now all the game offers something other than just leveling and Doing HQs/Raiding. Because the quests are not going to be epic quests that require a week 2 do with a Raid. ---------For hardcore gamers... They have more high end content..... so whats the reason for all the complaining? i know its not because casual players are upset that they will have 2 play more to get to the top... Because if thats the case your not a "casual player" your a Hardcore wanna-be but for some reason or another, like myself, your game time is limited. If thats the problem its not Sonys problem For every level up to 50 they have offered a spell automatically at level that you could upgrade if you wanted. This change represents a shift from that concept, a shift closer to the EQLive philosophy. Why? (rhetorical) Get to the top? Hard core wanna be? It is not important to get to the top. It is important to have fun along the way. I don't want mundane boring faction grinds placed in the way just to fill my time. Thats EQLive, not EQ2. If they make EQ2 into the grind that EQLive was, they deserve the casual's wrath because we were told it was going to be different for EQ2. Message Edited by Gwideon on 09-11-2005 12:36 AM

09-11-2005, 06:31 PM	#76
SniperKitty Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	Get to the top? Hard core wanna be? It is not important to get to the top. It is important to have fun along the way. I don't want mundane boring faction grinds placed in the way just to fill my time. Thats EQLive, not EQ2. If they make EQ2 into the grind that EQLive was, they deserve the casual's wrath because we were told it was going to be different for EQ2. - Gwideon Guess what, in Bloodline Chronicles and Splitpaw Saga, you had a spell you had to earn and didn't get automatically when you reached that level. You earned it by questing and gaining faction with the merchant who sells the spell. It'll be the same way in DoF. It's the only way SOE will get a majority of the idiots to go to DoF content, instead of buying DoF and Harclaving their way to sixty or grinding in PF/LS/SE. Note, these spells will also be dropping off mobs as Adept 1's and Master 1's and you can learn them that way too.I was the epitome of casual in EQLive. I don't mind working for my rewards, but I want there to be a challenge to it. Grind is bad. Challenge is good. As long as the challenge isn't hair pulling frustration. I liked the access quest for Splitpaw. I liked the access quest for Bloodline Chronicles. Progressive instanced zones that were a challenge without making them a grind heavy "look for the rare drop off the rare mob" type.EQ2 is very accessable to the casual gamer. Moreso now, than at release. Aside from the difficulty of combat and guardians being the only raid tank, I'm pretty happy with EQ2. They're fixing combat and hopefully that will fix the raid tank problem too. Guardians shouldn't be the only one allowed to tank all the raid content. __________________ ... in bed.

09-11-2005, 07:10 PM	#77
BigRedWo Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 120	Sometimes I feel more like a software tester than a gamer. :smileyindifferent: __________________

09-11-2005, 08:27 PM	#78
Ydiss Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 114	Daishar wrote: the biggest problem i have is the fact that 4 DAYS before release, they just made the largest sweeping change to the combat revamp in the last 5 months... when were they planning on testing it? oh wait, thats what the live servers are for... sigh... how were they even planning on testing whether or not this system even works? better hurry.... Message Edited by Daishar on 09-08-2005 11:38 PM You really are just spamming now. Is your own thread about this not enough for you? This thread is talking about the way spells are granted in tier 6, not how the game is being tested. On topic, I don't really think it'll be tedious or arduous to gain abilities post 50. As already suggested it's just a case of getting them from NPCs. Sniperkitty has produced probably the most sensible reason. With Splitpaw players could conveivably ignore all the tier 6 content in DOF, so the chances are we will have to perform simple quests that involve naturally killing tier 6 content anyway. Makes perfect sense to me. Whether it'll add to the challenge and the fun of the game, I'll have to wait and see. Message Edited by Ydiss on 09-11-2005 09:59 AM __________________

09-11-2005, 08:56 PM	#79
Ydiss Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 114	Sleett wrote: Nerfing is not a legtimate response to any problem. Taking away, rather than giving, is never apprecitated by your customers. (Customers are those dreadful people who pay your bills and complain all the time. [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] them!) Example: I go to a restuarant every weekday for breakfast. Someone complains that there is "too much food" on the weekly breakfast special. The restaurant responds by cutting the amount in half, but not lowering the price. Not everyone felt there was too much food in the weekly special - most in fact, felt the amount was just right and loved the weekly special. The result: Unhappy customers - the majority of them no longer visit your establishment or buy your food. They feel cheated and won't come back. You make less money and eventually have to shut down your restaurant. That's my attempt at an analogy. I hope that someone in SoE is listening, as apparently, our feedback is being ignored. Will they ignore it when they don't have jobs anymore because they have no player base or steady income due to their continued nerfage? Unlike EverQuest1 - this is NOT the only game in town. We have options SoE and we will use them. To me, this does N O T include going back to EQ1 - ever. We were the willing led by the unwise. Not this time. Your analogy would only be relevant if your point of view of the game were shared by everyone. Some people actually like the changes, some are looking forward to them. At any rate, we are not paying for quantity, we are playing a game that is supposed to be a challenge. Where SOE feel the challenge is reduced they reserve the right to change whatever they like to balance the challenge for all that play the game. In fact, from their point of view, they are trying to improve the quality of their product - that you feel they're reducing it your opinion. By your analogy, well it's not an analogy because the service a restaurant provides bears no comparisons to that of an online game. All you've said is "If a company upsets their customers they will leave/not buy the product", which is a bit of a no-brainer. You just assume that because you don't like the changes that everyone else feels the same way (after all, no one would really like to pay the same for less food, would they?). And if you see this as a nerf... Well that's another story. As someone posted above, this is yet another over-reaction by players who seem to be subscribed to all of the nagative posts on this forum (I've already noticed a small collection of users that frequent all of the negative posts, most of whom seem outraged about everything, including minute things like this, urging them to post about it to show SOE they're angry about the game in particular). At any rate, as we progress upwards through the tiers you're all going to have to expect some things to change. I disagree that this change is just "to make EQ2 like EQ1 to get more players in". If that were the case they'd have changed every tier, not just 6. Think about it for a moment. Message Edited by Ydiss on 09-11-2005 10:00 AM __________________

09-11-2005, 11:16 PM	#80
Gwide Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 86	SniperKitty wrote: Get to the top? Hard core wanna be? It is not important to get to the top. It is important to have fun along the way. I don't want mundane boring faction grinds placed in the way just to fill my time. Thats EQLive, not EQ2. If they make EQ2 into the grind that EQLive was, they deserve the casual's wrath because we were told it was going to be different for EQ2. - Gwideon Guess what, in Bloodline Chronicles and Splitpaw Saga, you had a spell you had to earn and didn't get automatically when you reached that level. You earned it by questing and gaining faction with the merchant who sells the spell. It'll be the same way in DoF. It's the only way SOE will get a majority of the idiots to go to DoF content, instead of buying DoF and Harclaving their way to sixty or grinding in PF/LS/SE. Note, these spells will also be dropping off mobs as Adept 1's and Master 1's and you can learn them that way too. When was the last time you dinged a level in EQ2, and didn't recieve a spell upon level? Both BLC and SPS were expansion packs, DoF is the first full expansion that increased levels. It is core EQ2. Players should be encouraged to go into DoF because it is fun content, not forced to in order to progressed. Why is it so important to you to make sure people don't Harclave to 60? If they want to do that, I don't see the harm. I didn't do BLC nor SPS just to get the spells, I played them because they were fun (well at least mst of it). SniperKitty wrote: I was the epitome of casual in EQLive. I don't mind working for my rewards, but I want there to be a challenge to it. Grind is bad. Challenge is good. As long as the challenge isn't hair pulling frustration. I liked the access quest for Splitpaw. I liked the access quest for Bloodline Chronicles. Progressive instanced zones that were a challenge without making them a grind heavy "look for the rare drop off the rare mob" type. EQ2 is very accessable to the casual gamer. Moreso now, than at release. Aside from the difficulty of combat and guardians being the only raid tank, I'm pretty happy with EQ2. They're fixing combat and hopefully that will fix the raid tank problem too. Guardians shouldn't be the only one allowed to tank all the raid content. I don't mind working for rewards either, and I don't disagree with anything you have said here. If the faction work is fun questing and not something just thrown in to slow progress, I won't be upset. However, if Beta had the spells granted at level until recently, it sounds like this change might be that. I guess we will see what the final product looks like tomorrow.

09-12-2005, 04:46 AM	#81
Ninusar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 61	To Clarify this post, Text in white are my previous posts that were brought up, Red were posts from Gwideon, and the blue text is my response Ninusar wrote: Show me where the EQ2 Mission statement said asnythign about a game made only for soloers and casual players.... You cant... thats because the game was developed for everyone in mind... them adding content does not affect casual players. There is just more to do. Soloing is difficult atm and will be fixed just as it was fixed before (ability and exp wise). They did not create the game with only soloers and casual players, I never said they did. However, your statement was way off the mark: Your Correct You did not specificly say soloers... your statements talk about Casual gamers and the solo-ability in the game... (you cant argue with that statement read all of your arguements) No mater how you look at it your incorrcet, The game like i said was made for everyone. them making the game a little more challengeing does not affect the game as a whole for casual gamers nor soloers, Both adventure packs have been made mostly for the casual gamer... The expansion pack however has to be more marketable and in some way, other than leveling and newmobs, bring something new to the table... if SOE does it in some extreme mannor please do your complaining after its been released. (There is no arguement to that, complainging now does nuthing they are not goin 2 change it before its release based on complaints of 10 out of the 500000+ ppl who play) Ninusar wrote: It was designed to be challenging, time consuming and to restate its name "Everquest"=Never ending.. However it was also brought 2 SOE's attention that there was a grp of players that loved 2 solo or did not have the time to grp and Raid... so they have built in features to accomidate those players... oN, it wasn't. It was supposed to be a direct competitor to WoW, easy to get into, less time involvement than EQLive. Casual play style was NOT an after thought, it was the main target audience. This was not supposed to be evergrind nor everraid, this was supposed to be EQ "Light" all the fun, minus the tedium and agravation. Once again you provide no proof for what you say. go 2 Gamespy and look up its reveiws and interviews with creators. Everquest was Made to be and i quote."The most immersive MMO ever created" for those who dont know what that word is here are some Synonyms absorbed, bound up, buried, busy, consumed, deep, engaged, engrossed, intent, into, mesmerized, occupied, preoccupied, rapt, really into, spellbound, taken up, tied up, turned on, wrapped, wrapped up So once again your statement on its purpose is false (if you want to argue that agian please show some sort of proof other than, "your wrong" As for your idea that it was made 2 be a easy goin game 2 compete with other like WOW... well once again buddy ur Wrong. EQ2 was made becasue Sony had to have an Answer to all of the titles that were goin 2 be released. you cant put a game 6 years old up agaist games that are using new tecnology as your sole MMO. Ninusar wrote: If you want a game u can sit down and play and its enjoyable and doesnt take much work... u should have went with WoW not EQ2.... You are way off base. SOE would love to draw WoW clients to EQ2, rather than drive thier existing clients to WoW. If thier customers see the changes as a shift toward the existing EQLive philosphy of lots of work for little progress, they will indeed lose clients to other games. Briliant statement... SOE wants customers and doesnt want to lose them.... If only someone would have realized that sooner... The people that SOE want the people that play a game and stay for 5 years. and they are the only ones who can say, so far, that they have successfully done that. and its not because they had a game that was easy 2 do and made everyone feel warm inside because they got everything they wanted without doing a little grinding. Fun is what you make it not what they give you.... if you enjoy takin it easy,, take it easy,,,, if u enjoy grinding... well then grind.... and if u just cant stand the game then find one u like. and u cant say the game isnt enjoyable this many people dont play a game when its not. Ninusar wrote:So them adding spells that are not just given 2 you.....---------For casual players... just gives the player more to do now all the game offers something other than just leveling and Doing HQs/Raiding. Because the quests are not going to be epic quests that require a week 2 do with a Raid. ---------For hardcore gamers... They have more high end content.....so whats the reason for all the complaining? i know its not because casual players are upset that they will have 2 play more to get to the top... Because if thats the case your not a "casual player" your a Hardcore wanna-be but for some reason or another, like myself, your game time is limited. If thats the problem its not Sonys problem For every level up to 50 they have offered a spell automatically at level that you could upgrade if you wanted. This change represents a shift from that concept, a shift closer to the EQLive philosophy. Why? (rhetorical) Get to the top? Hard core wanna be? It is not important to get to the top. It is important to have fun along the way. I don't want mundane boring faction grinds placed in the way just to fill my time. Thats EQLive, not EQ2. If they make EQ2 into the grind that EQLive was, they deserve the casual's wrath because we were told it was going to be different for EQ2. Once again your complaining... You can have all the fun you want... only 3 of the 10 new spells are differnt from the normal class upgrades u get in you spell llines every 14 levels.... if you dont wanna do quests or what ever it will require then use your old spells that have been upgraded (adept 3 is better 9 times out of 10 then its advanced counterparts app1) so no one is forcing you to do anything you can be efficent at yout class without being uber... once your 60 u can get your spells if you want casualy because other than raiding you have nuthing to do... so SOE isnt punishing anyone in this instances they are just giveing you more to do once you level. So Gwideon you are worrying about nuthing... the game will go where the money is at... if its high end content then well it will go there... what ever makes the money is what will last. (and u cant argue with that eather) Message Edited by Ninusar on 09-12-2005 05:31 AM Message Edited by Ninusar on 09-12-2005 05:35 AM

09-12-2005, 11:39 AM	#82
Aedos General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 100	You are way off base. SOE would love to draw WoW clients to EQ2, rather than drive thier existing clients to WoW. If thier customers see the changes as a shift toward the existing EQLive philosphy of lots of work for little progress, they will indeed lose clients to other games. Funny that you would use WoW as example. Because in WoW you dont get your spells automatically on lvl up and you cant even buy some class defining abilities like warlock pets from spell vendors but you need to quest for them. So I guess EQ2 is going to right direction then ? :p Message Edited by Aedosen on 09-12-2005 10:42 AM

09-12-2005, 04:34 PM	#83
Ninusar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 61	Aedosen---------------Funny that you would use WoW as example. Because in WoW you dont get your spells automatically on lvl up and you cant even buy some class defining abilities like warlock pets from spell vendors but you need to quest for them. So I guess EQ2 is going to right direction then ? ---------- Nice point :smileywink:

09-12-2005, 05:49 PM	#84
chanaho Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 61	Instead of flaming each others viewpoints, how about everybody try to see each others concerns and post something constructive. There are a number of people that do not want to have to find all their spells and having them at level up is the way they like it. I see nothing wrong with this as looking back there are 3 spells I wouldnt have even known about had I not checked O-gaming. I have been getting all my spells at certain levels..then I find, in O-gaming, one that I can buy from the broker (not npc's) and 4 levels after that I actually found one for sale. (the other 2 were from the bloodline/splitpaw saga) So based on this, how is anybody going to know what they are entitled to get whether it is purchased from an npc or quested...which npc to buy from or get the quest from? I personally would love it if i picked, say faction A, and had one NPC from that faction I could go to who was a Master Ranger and handled All ranger trainings (insert your class here) and you check back to them now and again and they will offer questing that will get you your new spells. However it should not be something that I cant do for another 3 levels due to difficulty and should not be a drawn out quest where you end up finishing it ...in 3 levels but should be something fairly quick but satisfying when complete where you feel you earned it. This is what I think the factions allignment in DOF is bringing.....( I could be wrong) Take a look at any class and what do you see? Besides from some weapon/armor differences there is really no difference...all CA's are the same...0-50 of any particular class. In DOF, what faction your with will give you 3 skills that are quite different from the other factions hence my level 60 Ranger will now have some skills that no other Ranger has... and they will have skills that I dont have. Now there will be actually some variation between like classes and each will have something unique.

09-12-2005, 06:04 PM	#85
Ninusar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 61	---------------------- Instead of flaming each others viewpoints, how about everybody try to see each others concerns and post something constructive.--------------------- In a perfect wold thats how it would be but people complain and make off the wall statements that cause people to lock up in fear and do things like cancel thier pre-order.... The idea that the spells have 2 be obtained is not a new idea, its not an obserd idea, and its not a game altering idea, there for its not worth pulling the people who read fourms on occasion into the "SOE hates casual players they dont care about us" arguement.. so if someone doesnt speak up it is assumed to be the truth.... To agree with you the spells tasks/quests/or what ever it may be should not be harder to do then the spells worth... there is no reason to have to put 20+ hours into a dot or a heal that isnt that big of an upgrade to the spells already aquired for nuthing

09-12-2005, 06:20 PM	#86
cr0wangel Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 594	Here an exemple of how I see this, let's suppose you play a priest and that this system is in fonction for every level. I believe it will be annoying, if at level 15 they force you to kill 5000 orcs to be able to scribe your healing spell. What if you don't enjoy killing orcs? You will have to do it because you want your spell. No game should force players to do something that may be boring. So far, only a very few quests were ''enforced''. On the island of refuge, to help learn the game, the citizenship quest, the quest level 10 and level 20. That's all. All others quests are optional and the player is totally free to do them or refuse. (Heritage quests, armor quests, all optional). Why force us to get factions? It's just not good. It's simply a way to force us to play in that zone.

09-13-2005, 02:17 AM	#87
Gwide Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 86	Ninusar wrote: Once again you provide no proof for what you say. go 2 Gamespy and look up its reveiws and interviews with creators. Everquest was Made to be and i quote."The most immersive MMO ever created" for those who dont know what that word is here are some Synonyms absorbed, bound up, buried, busy, consumed, deep, engaged, engrossed, intent, into, mesmerized, occupied, preoccupied, rapt, really into, spellbound, taken up, tied up, turned on, wrapped, wrapped up So once again your statement on its purpose is false (if you want to argue that agian please show some sort of proof other than, "your wrong" As for your idea that it was made 2 be a easy goin game 2 compete with other like WOW... well once again buddy ur Wrong. EQ2 was made becasue Sony had to have an Answer to all of the titles that were goin 2 be released. you cant put a game 6 years old up agaist games that are using new tecnology as your sole MMO. John Smedley President, Sony Online Entertainment wrote: With the launch of EverQuest II, our goal was to refine EverQuest… to distill the things that made EverQuest great, but also to add its own flavor and gameplay style. I think it's fair to say we also needed to aim for a more casual gamer… and make the game appeal to people that may not have the same amount of time they had when EverQuest first came out. As a company we needed to also appeal to a wider base of people. I think you can see from the universal appeal of the Lord of the Rings books (and oh yeah, the movies too…) fantasy worlds are what we can all call "mass market". I'm really proud of EverQuest II and I honestly believe we delivered on our goals of making an incredibly fun and immersive world that our players want to be a part of and make their own. Now what's been interesting from our perspective is what really serious competition is doing to the online gaming space. World of Warcraft has come on the scene and is doing awesome. Kudos to Blizzard on what I think is a spectacular game. I've played the heck out of it, and I love it (as have many people here at SOE). To a game developer, having another game developer play your game is the ultimate compliment… so to the folks at Blizzard we say "Nicely done". But don't think for a second that we don't see WoW as both a great game AND Blizzard as serious competition. Personally… I'm glad they are out there. They keep us honest. They keep us focused and they force us to play with our 'A' game. They've certainly opened some eyes in our company to styles of gameplay that are different than we would have come up with inside SOE. I hope they're also opening up the eyes of other MMO developers that the 'old school' probably won't cut it any more. I'm glad that we went in the direction we did with EQ II because had we stuck with making an even "harder core" game, I think bad things would have happened. We need to be about larger scale mass-entertainment… because that's what online gaming is slowly becoming. Our games just need to be fun… and easy to get into. Now I am sure when John Smedley said: I think it's fair to say we also needed to aim for a more casual gamer… and make the game appeal to people that may not have the same amount of time they had when EverQuest first came out. As a company we needed to also appeal to a wider base of people. Perhaps he really meant avid gamer with boat loads of time to throw at a hobby. And when he said: But don't think for a second that we don't see WoW as both a great game AND Blizzard as serious competition. He really meant that he has no intention of trying to compete with WoW for the casual and solo player base. And when he said: I hope they're also opening up the eyes of other MMO developers that the 'old school' probably won't cut it any more. I'm glad that we went in the direction we did with EQ II because had we stuck with making an even "harder core" game, I think bad things would have happened. He meant "more of the same" for EQ2. Also, they wanted to create a direct competor to their existing product EQLive (even though it was denied repeatedly). I also by hard-core being a bad way to go, he really meant awesome way to go. And when he said: We need to be about larger scale mass-entertainment… because that's what online gaming is slowly becoming. He really believes that the big market is in hard core gamers wanting repeated boring grinding and repetitive game play. And when he said: Our games just need to be fun… and easy to get into. He really meant that gamers are truly sadomasochists desiring long drawn out cryptic faction grinds in order to get the most basic of game rewards. Guess I had it totally wrong.

09-13-2005, 02:28 AM	#88
Gwide Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 86	Ninusar wrote: oN, it wasn't. It was supposed to be a direct competitor to WoW, easy to get into, less time involvement than EQLive. Casual play style was NOT an after thought, it was the main target audience. This was not supposed to be evergrind nor everraid, this was supposed to be EQ "Light" all the fun, minus the tedium and agravation. Once again you provide no proof for what you say. go 2 Gamespy and look up its reveiws and interviews with creators. Everquest was Made to be and i quote."The most immersive MMO ever created" for those who dont know what that word is here are some Synonyms absorbed, bound up, buried, busy, consumed, deep, engaged, engrossed, intent, into, mesmerized, occupied, preoccupied, rapt, really into, spellbound, taken up, tied up, turned on, wrapped, wrapped up So once again your statement on its purpose is false (if you want to argue that agian please show some sort of proof other than, "your wrong" As for your idea that it was made 2 be a easy goin game 2 compete with other like WOW... well once again buddy ur Wrong. EQ2 was made becasue Sony had to have an Answer to all of the titles that were goin 2 be released. you cant put a game 6 years old up agaist games that are using new tecnology as your sole MMO. John Smedley President, Sony Online Entertainment wrote: With the launch of EverQuest II, our goal was to refine EverQuest… to distill the things that made EverQuest great, but also to add its own flavor and gameplay style. I think it's fair to say we also needed to aim for a more casual gamer… and make the game appeal to people that may not have the same amount of time they had when EverQuest first came out. As a company we needed to also appeal to a wider base of people. I think you can see from the universal appeal of the Lord of the Rings books (and oh yeah, the movies too…) fantasy worlds are what we can all call "mass market". I'm really proud of EverQuest II and I honestly believe we delivered on our goals of making an incredibly fun and immersive world that our players want to be a part of and make their own. Now what's been interesting from our perspective is what really serious competition is doing to the online gaming space. World of Warcraft has come on the scene and is doing awesome. Kudos to Blizzard on what I think is a spectacular game. I've played the heck out of it, and I love it (as have many people here at SOE). To a game developer, having another game developer play your game is the ultimate compliment… so to the folks at Blizzard we say "Nicely done". But don't think for a second that we don't see WoW as both a great game AND Blizzard as serious competition. Personally… I'm glad they are out there. They keep us honest. They keep us focused and they force us to play with our 'A' game. They've certainly opened some eyes in our company to styles of gameplay that are different than we would have come up with inside SOE. I hope they're also opening up the eyes of other MMO developers that the 'old school' probably won't cut it any more. I'm glad that we went in the direction we did with EQ II because had we stuck with making an even "harder core" game, I think bad things would have happened. We need to be about larger scale mass-entertainment… because that's what online gaming is slowly becoming. Our games just need to be fun… and easy to get into. Sorry, I thought I had quoted this once before to back up my statements.

09-13-2005, 03:53 AM	#89
Ninusar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 61	Once again, thanks for proving my point Gwideon. He said in his letter he wanted a game that was open to more than just hardcore gamers. So, the game, like I said, was made with everyone in mind.Adding of spell quests does not make EQ2 a hardcore grind game. The game simply has a little more depth. And if you want to compare it to WOW, then just for the record you should know there are abilities such as pets that have to be quested. No one ever said that EQ2 was for the Hardcore gamer... it was just pointed out that there are others that arnt so laid back that enjoy content as well. No where in this letter does he say EQ2 is made for the people who like to get everythign for nothing and love to complain about a challenge when its presented. So once again thanks for a worthless post that proves nothing.

09-13-2005, 04:03 AM	#90
Ninusar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 61	Gwideon- Guys the girlfrind had something to say on the topic so they keyboard is all her's (dont hold me accountable for this lol "If you spend enough time playing this game to want to post messages and go through to other websites to find statements and quotes from other people about the game, then you should not have a problem spending the time on the game to put forth the effort to go through the quests to get your spells- quit whinning." She does bring up a very valid point... 2 be more blunt then her i thiink shes tryin 2 say if u used all the time u spend crying on the fourms to actually play the game you would be so uber it wouldnt matter to you what they added.