We need a way to copy characters over to TEST.

PorkCho · 07-05-2005, 08:22 PM

Without paying money. Im not going to pay $200 (my wifes character and mine) to help you test. You want us to help, give us the resources to test. Since we are doing Sony and Everquest2 a service, why can we not just be able to copy our chracters over free of charge. Every service you have(Sony, EQ2) costs, think of our service as costing 1 free character transfer per account.

Aura08 · 07-05-2005, 09:19 PM

I have heard about whole guilds being copied over to test servers. These guilds even said they were given a copy of there normal char onto the test servers. I ready about them saying there guild was back when froglocks were put in and there was alot of angry people because this guild was given the right to have there char copied onto test servers and no one else is able to. They were/are able to log in and test all the new stuff as a guild. People were complaining that it was unfar for this whole guild to get there char's copied to test server. I agree with this because the other day I sent in a request to get my char copied over to test servers because I wanted to help them test high lvl content, but I did not feel like lvl'ing a test char all the way to 50. I was told that they can not, and are not allowed to copy a char over to a test server and closed the request. I sent another way saying about that whole guild that was copied over to test and after a week and a half I deleted it because I seen they would not reply.

Kreegan · 07-05-2005, 09:32 PM

Some guilds are asked to testy high end raid content. For those tests the guild is copied over for a short amount of time.

The devs have already said they have no intention of allowing people to copy their characters over to test. They want individuals who are willing to actually test and try to find and report bugs and issues. They do not want to set up a system where people can copy their character over a few days before a live update just to see how their character is affected.

Aura08 · 07-05-2005, 09:45 PM

This is a good reason for them not to send copys of char over to test. But they have to look at the facts. The people on the test server are not getting the job done. This can be do to them not trying, or to the fact of they are missing the lvl range of char's to give this content a good test. It seeming to only be getting worse and not better. The patchs are taking longer and longer to load into the game and they are having more and more bugs in the game itself. I remember when they first changed the CT hear of fear quest with those gems. A few friends and myself went in to do it and everything we started the ring event on top the temple the zone would crash. We tested this 4 times and every time we started the ring it would crash the zone. Sometimes it was take a few waves of the ring event to happen. That quest was a high demand quest back then and somthing that big should have been found out in test. Most likly there just was not the amout of people that lvl range to even do the event. If we were allowed to copy ONLY 1 char to test then those people who want to help make the game better and have less buggs when the content is released would be in there working on finding them those bugs. Untill that time we can only complain about test servers not getting the job done, and having to deal with content with so many bugs people do not want to even go in it. Like with splitpaw I have 3groups disband because they were just going to wait till the splitpaw zones get fixed because it was so bad it was crashing ever half hour or more. Then the lower tunnels zones was not even up it was crashed till the servers were taken down later in the day for a patch to fix some of the stuff in that zone

Na · 07-05-2005, 10:15 PM

Aura0819 wrote:The people on the test server are not getting the job done... Untill that time we can only complain about test servers not getting the job done, and having to deal with content with so many bugs people do not want to even go in it.

I've said it once and I'll continue to say it. Unless you play on test, unless you can read the Tester Only Forum (not this public one), you have NO idea which bugs have and have not been reported by the players on the test server. Just because a bug does not get fixed before it goes live does not mean that the test server population isn't doing their job. Is it probable that they miss bugs? Certainly. I don't think anyone on the test server would claim that they catch 100% of the bugs. But more than likely SOE has determined that the bug isn't severe enough to be fixed before going to live. There have also been several devs who've stated that copying the data to the live servers can cause bugs. What does that mean? That for some reason when the data was posted to the test server, the bug didn't exist but once the data was copied to the live server it introduced the bug. There would be no way for the test server population to catch that.

Iseabeil · 07-05-2005, 11:16 PM

i havent played as much on test as i planned to, but i know of many times when bugs have been reported and yet made it live. id say most of bugs we see arent there cause test missed them, they are there cause they werent seen as bad enough to delay the update hitting live. wether this is a good or bad thing is of course debatable, but thats SoEs choise. having copid toons would not improve the situation, might even risk to slow it down as overrepeated /bugs takes time to go through.

HanktheDwarf · 07-06-2005, 07:13 AM

Kreegan wrote:

Some guilds are asked to testy high end raid content. For those tests the guild is copied over for a short amount of time.

The devs have already said they have no intention of allowing people to copy their characters over to test. They want individuals who are willing to actually test and try to find and report bugs and issues. They do not want to set up a system where people can copy their character over a few days before a live update just to see how their character is affected.

/giggle. They aren't copied for 'a short amount of time'. That would imply they are deleted after use. Which they aren't. In fact, some of them are copied over multiple times, as evident by the guild tag having not one, but two x's at the end of the name.

Heiro · 07-07-2005, 04:58 PM

Poor horsie...

dead and still being beat on

Fire&ice · 07-08-2005, 03:34 PM

/agree Heiro :smileysad:

TheMightyTaco · 07-08-2005, 08:04 PM

Kreegan wrote:
They do not want to set up a system where people can copy their character over a few days before a live update just to see how their character is affected.

Nothing against what you said, Kreegan. But if the quoted statement is true then they are purposefully trying to get people to NOT test changes. It seems to me if you want to test how changes have affected the game you'd want people to test how changes have affected the game. :smileyvery-happy:

EtoilePirate · 07-08-2005, 08:15 PM

MisterCode wrote:

Kreegan wrote:

They do not want to set up a system where people can copy their character over a few days before a live update just to see how their character is affected.

Nothing against what you said, Kreegan. But if the quoted statement is true then they are purposefully trying to get people to NOT test changes. It seems to me if you want to test how changes have affected the game you'd want people to test how changes have affected the game. :smileyvery-happy:

Test goes on Live Builds between patches. In fact, we're on a live build right now, or at least we were when I last logged in. It's not like Test is 100% of the time a totally different server. Right now, Test and Live are the exact same. Then they patch Test with something new and shiny, and that's a Test build, and we can all tell if it's the same or different because of, well, if it's the same or different. Once in a while there are things we can't remember, true, but usually those "is this different, or am I imagining..." questions are answered (1) by reviewing logs, and (2) by detailed patch notes, when we can actually get them. Also we can communicate directly with QA and devs and ask them if they changed something.

But anyway, we do test how changes have affected the game, because we go on Live builds in between patches. That's what I'm getting at.

TheMightyTaco · 07-09-2005, 12:19 AM

I didn't mean to imply that SOE doesn't see the changes that have been made. What I meant to point out was that people moving characters from live to test to see what the changes do to their characters is a good thing. Take for instance, the 200% deadly trap damage on solo instances of Splitpaw. I have a character on test but didn't get a chance to go near Splitpaw because he is just a lowly level 6 at this point. If I was able to copy my main over, I'd be able to run him through and see just what was in store. Perhaps testing DID get feedback about chests killing people in solo instances (forcing them the revive and loose their loot). I'd hope that the problem wasn't that the bug/behavior was intended or ignored, but rather noone tested it. That is all I was getting at. If the testing feedback was ignored then it's all moot and there isn't a real need for a test server anyway.

Kreegan · 07-09-2005, 01:25 AM

MisterCode wrote:

Kreegan wrote:

They do not want to set up a system where people can copy their character over a few days before a live update just to see how their character is affected.

Nothing against what you said, Kreegan. But if the quoted statement is true then they are purposefully trying to get people to NOT test changes. It seems to me if you want to test how changes have affected the game you'd want people to test how changes have affected the game. :smileyvery-happy:

What I ment by my post was that if SOE allowed everyone to copy over their characters at-will then you'd get far more people loggin on to see how the changes affected them than doing actual testing. By actual testng I mean someone who see's something wrong, tries it again to see if its repeatabel, files a detailed bug report, and then discusses it on the Test Forums.

Someone logging in and seeing what the new recast time is on their favorite spell so they can go to the forums and complain about a nerf wont help anyone, but unfortunately you'd probably get more of those than actual testers.

Heiro · 07-09-2005, 03:48 AM

Enough people on test did run the splitpaw instance, and continue to do so.

Personally, I have ran the upper tunnels at least 8 times ( on all 3 lvls) and havent died to a trapped chest yet.

Same with Harclave, Numerous runs on each level of difficulty, never died to a chest... did die to the fall though (stupid cat jumping on the desk while jumping off the plank).

Solo arena, defeated more times than any sane person should...

Hideout, same .. numerous runs, no chest deaths....

There are numerous low, mid, high level people on test who do test things quite frequently, and repeatedly. The majority of them are permanent residents who did the 1-50 grind numerous times. ( personally I know of one person with 3 lvl 50 chars, all done on test, and 2 of them in less time than it has taken me to grind one guy to 48.)

So while we dont have 100+ lvl 50s on the server, we do have a goodly number of higher levels, and more people are approaching each day. Things are getting tested, bugs are being reported, DEVs are being talked to and things are being communicated back and forth.

People who want to truly help, will not have an issue with either a character MOVE or just starting up some new characters, as the grind for someone who is familiar with the ins and outs is much less on TEST because of the knowledge already gained, and the bonus exp. IMO Whining for a copy so you get a chance to TEST what affects you, isnt going to help the population in general. IF someone truly wants to help, they would be by now.. and the lvl grind would not even be a factor.

***WHACK WHACK WHACK ... take that you dead horse***

Message Edited by Heiro on 07-08-2005 04:50 PM

Kreegan · 07-09-2005, 04:23 AM

I think if SOE offered a one free MOVE to Test Server that would be a good compromise. Not a copy, but a move. Then those who truly want to test and not have to regrind would be appeased, and those who just want to copy onto test to play around will still be kept off.

RedFeather · 07-09-2005, 05:33 AM

Personally I would have taken the route of frequent Test Server wipes, and reimplementing /testbuffs. The /testbuffs would be given level caps dependent on exactly what content needed to be tested at the time. After all this is about effectively testing new content as diversly as possible (ei: with every class/subclass), not having to focus on developing a single character. I have no idea why this isn't being done. :smileyindifferent:

EtoilePirate · 07-09-2005, 05:48 AM

Kreegan wrote:
I think if SOE offered a one free MOVE to Test Server that would be a good compromise. Not a copy, but a move. Then those who truly want to test and not have to regrind would be appeased, and those who just want to copy onto test to play around will still be kept off.

I agree. The last /movelog brought a lot of Test's best-known and most dedicated players over. I think they should offer one every month or every two months or something.

EtoilePirate · 07-09-2005, 05:50 AM

RedFeather1975 wrote:
Personally I would have taken the route of frequent Test Server wipes, and reimplementing /testbuffs. The /testbuffs would be given level caps dependent on exactly what content needed to be tested at the time.

After all this is about effectively testing new content as diversly as possible (ei: with every class/subclass), not having to focus on developing a single character.

I have no idea why this isn't being done. :smileyindifferent:

This gets said a lot, but here goes one more time:

The thing about testing is that it's not just the new content that needs reveiwing. Certain patches have broken the mail, recipes, totally unrelated skills, griffons, and what-have-you. If you don't have people running all over the world acting like people, the new bugs in old content dont' get picked up, and then the people on live servers who ARE running all over the world acting like people get all complainy when their old stuff breaks.

Eyes_of_Truth · 07-09-2005, 06:31 AM

I have said this alot and ill make it brief. two test servers. One in it's current state and the 2nd where you have GM level of testing acess like make your character any level, any class, and gear. 2nd server would only havea hand full of zones one for each tier. This 2nd server would be strictly for combat/item testing. No community on 2nd test server. Nothing to gain from playing 2nd test server other than to find bugs or test out skills/ca/spells before they go live. This would have absolutly no affect on any server besides it'self. GTG raid time in DFC lol back later to explain better!

Toodles!

RedFeather · 07-09-2005, 06:56 AM

This gets said a lot, but here goes one more time:

The thing about testing is that it's not just the new content that needs reveiwing. Certain patches have broken the mail, recipes, totally unrelated skills, griffons, and what-have-you. If you don't have people running all over the world acting like people, the new bugs in old content dont' get picked up, and then the people on live servers who ARE running all over the world acting like people get all complainy when their old stuff breaks.

I can't argue with that Etoile. But a comprimise would need to be established. A test server, as well as a pre-live server. One would allow persistent character advancement on a concentric server (as test to live content does need to be approached your way). The other would allow /testbuffing and server wipes, for it would be the hardcore testing phase and would only be done effectively if there was nothing to interefere with it. I see persistent character advancement on a test server as detracting from the true focus required to accurately test specific content issues.

Perhaps SOE has already gone this route, and we simply don't have access to this other testing phase. If that's the case, then I shut my trap now. YUP! :smileyindifferent:

Message Edited by RedFeather1975 on 07-08-2005 08:03 PM

Picknose · 07-10-2005, 08:33 PM

A MOVE (take character delete it on live put on test) of a character to test server would not bother me so much. A COPY does bother me. A COPY has no root to the server. If a copy gets tired of downtime he simply returns to his / her server and is done with it. A COPY can be rude, and be a griefer and cause problems for people trying to test with no worries, he can always return to his / her original server with no worry about how thay re perseecved. I am not saying all copies would be this way, but having been on test servers (WOW, DAOC) where characters are copied if have seen how a very few can ruin the experience for the manay. When you are MOVED you are stuck, since there are no character moves off of test you are stuck, much like the exchange servers (blegh). How you play and are perceived by others will determine how well you fit in, and if you do not then tuff it out and keep going.

That said, come to test, make a new character. We have a slightly increased exp bonus and it would take an experienced player just a few short weeks to be at the top of the heap again. Once there you will have much the same feelings as those of us who have in fact worked up and discovered numerous bugs and reported them on nearly a daily basis. That feeling is ownership of the test process. You will never have that as a copied character since you have nothing to keep you on the server when a patch is put out that is so horrible you can die a dosen times before you can even log off the game, or loose all your gear to a bug, or any number of other things that send most people running from the server. Yet we who stick it out are a friendly group of rejects who plod along and take favor among those of us who do the same.

BB

Naughtesn · 07-10-2005, 09:01 PM

Blah blah - let us copy. I'm really tired of the test "community" fighting this idea...it wouldn't be the end of the world...the sky will not fall...if the Chicken Littles of the world would just realize that what is in place IS... NOT ....WORKING, then maybe, just maybe the process can be improved.

Anyone can be a griefer, anyone can play recklessly, you want more people to test & feedback on all levels - let ppl copy. Otherwise, we are stuck with this poor excuse for a testing system. As long as there is a tiny population on test, that is.

But I'm starting to lose interest in lobbying for copying because clearly the DEVs are happy with the level of quality of patches hitting live - as if they are almost resigned to the fact that there will be issues affecting gameplay negatively with every update. I am certain that a lot of bugs that make it to live are reported, but since so few actually post bugs on the forums, we really have no idea. More ppl testing, even for short periods (like the guilds that are copied over - said copied guilds haven't ruined the server community, have they, testies?), along with public posting of issues might shame the DEVs on holding back updates until they are *more* ready. But as long as Test remains a clique-y, closed environment - nothing will change.

And to those that say roll up a toon on test...I have 2 lev 50 "live" characters, I have no interest in running another up at this time (which doesn't translate to me not being "dedicated" enough to test - it simply means I have done the grind and don't want to again). What *would* be nice is if there were a mechanism to allow me to take the time invested in these toons and put them to good use.

Eyes_of_Truth · 07-11-2005, 10:09 AM

Read this from start to finish, dont turn away at the first line. This is not a hate reply to Test.community, but a helpfull alternative Testserver2.

This is crap. I know you guys in test want your "community" to say in-tact but why in the name of all things good would you come by and one-star shoot my post that has an ALTERNATIVE test server idea for TESTING MECANICS........ not a community test server like it currently is, but a 2nd test server to physically beable to test anything and everyhitng in the game. Tell me one level 50 raid encaonter or one person that has a ton of fabled gear or one person on thest that is int a level 30 guild and has the spirit hourse / magic carpit... these things cant be tested in the current test with out MONTHS of investment of time. On my perposed test server2, these would be avalible to everone, as would every item, class, level, quality of spell in the game, anything you could ever want to test should be allowed.

ABSOLUTLY NOTHING FROM THIS TEST SERVER2 WOULD NEGATIVLY OR POSSITIVLY AFFECT ANY OTHER SERVER INCLUDING TEST1...

I cant stress that enough... if i here that they are gona fix my Conjuror's fire pet, i dont think i should have to level a conjuror up on the test server to just TEST this new ability to amke sure its working so i can provide and feedback on this skill. This is one of the many examples why a actual test server would be needed. If you dont want your community disturbed by "haters and grievers", but this would help your testserver1 greatly then, as these "vill disgusting people that will cause your server to burn and die" will flock to this test2 to just make a uber character and goof around... but there are peoplelike myself who dont want to do community test but rather character and itemization testing, and they deserve a test server and have every right to one as you do. If you cant respect the wishes of others, then thats your problem and not mine.

And in no way am i saying you do a poor job, far from it. You guys catch SO many common bugs that only a community server could catch, but there are also just as many class issues that make it though your net. That is where test2 comes in. Players can copy their characters from live to test2 in order to see how upcoming changes will affect their character, or to test how much effect a skill upgrade (like going form adept3 to master1) truely is, to make a sound purchase on upgrades. So many people would not pay 3pp+ for masters if they new how truely little this one master might be. Sometimes it's within 10 damage or heal of the adept 3, or sometimes it doesnt upgrade it at all! These kind of choices can be better made if you could "try before you buy" on test2.

There is no reasion that a level 50 character on live shuld have to reroll on test to simpley test their level 50 spell. test2 would fix this problem with out harming you or your close nit friends. Maby they should call the current test server "Test.commnity" and new test "Test.mecanics"

I know there are going to be people that say "that kind of testing is what devs have access to, just go be a dev and get over it." TBH I WANT to be a developer... it's jsut that currently my age pervents that, im only 16. Test2 would give people like me a a way to truely TEST specific information that we need.

It all boils down to this:

Test.Commuit- there to find the every day bugs that occur when playing the game in a normal communit setting.

Test.Mechanics- there to get specific feedback on skills/items and other game mechanics, it would have no community, everytime you log in your character has a randomly generated name (or the name of your copied characters) and is a level 1 generic everytime you log onto test.mec.Nothing is concrete. No money, as al items are avalible, and the only reasion to leave loot drops in is to make sure random_boss mob doesnt drop crapy level 10 styuff or somethign odd like that. This server would have nothing to gain but the aid of players finding broken or bad skills and replying with possible fixes.

If YOU personaly dont want to partake in Test.Mec, simply dont, it has no affect on you. If someone on Steamfont kills some raid mob, does test feel anything from this? Same for test.community and test.mechanic. Please dont knock this idea untill you give it some serious thought.

Toodles!

Fire&ice · 07-11-2005, 04:01 PM

Like I have said before and will say again...If you want to play on Test, then come join us crazies over here and have some fun! If not then don't /shrug. I left a lvl 45 character on live to make a character on Test (I currently have 3 now in various lvls). My main character on Test has steadily climbed and I have had a blast getting her up to where she is now. It is your choice and everyone should do what makes them happy. If you aren't happy making a new character then don't, but bringing up this discussion over and over and over again isn't going to help...

Poor, poor, poor horsey :smileysad:

Daffid011 · 07-11-2005, 05:02 PM

Eyes_of__truth, why are you preaching to the test server and blaming us for one starring your post? It really isn't fair to ask people to be open minded to your idea when you are not open minded in return by casting accusations.

Eyes_of_Truth · 07-11-2005, 07:28 PM

Well, if you care to take note, anything on this particular post that has the word "copy" or the phrase "second test server" gets an instant 1 star from you people and im trying to not sound accusing here but thats just how i observed it.

Please just answer one question, how am i going to test the changes to my conjuror who is level 28 live if i dont completely move him to test or completely reroll him on test?? i realy wana know, i allready have a community test toon, and he's ok for testing community stuff, but what if i have a specific area that im concerned in that i simply whant to log in, copy character and see how different (good or bad) and what possible problems and bugs he might have?

I have no wish to reinvest days of my time to re-level a character to simply test one aspect of said character.

To me im the one that feels insulted that you probley didnt even give my possitive idea any real thougt and (im not saysing you all did this) but one stared it because it's not what you personaly want to do.

If you could find any reasion that a second and seprit test server would be detrmental to any and i mean ANY server please inform me i honestly and truely wana know so we could figure out how to make it work...

Im not a bad guy people and im sorry if i came out that way, it's just frustraiting. I wana test one thing, yet to test that one thing, everyone is screaming "well just mkae a test toon and get over it" but i cant make my kind of test toon. There are alot of ways to test, and my mecanical way it seems is fround upon for some reasion unbeknownst to me.

This is not ment for humor, im truely serious and would love some answers, i realy and honestly just plain and simple want to know...

Why would you not want another test server for testing specific things vs your test server that actually is a functioning community server? It's just another option that has no effect upon any other server (that i can see atleast, if you find one please inform me)

Think of this as a servay. PLease post reponses as to why you do or do not want a second test.mechanic server.

Toodles!

Message Edited by Eyes_of_Truth on 07-11-2005 08:33 AM

Fire&ice · 07-11-2005, 08:15 PM

The reason, in the eyes of a corporation, I would think is cost...Why have a basically unused server opperational?...it cost more to run it than it would be worth to them. But that is my way of thinking /shrug...it may or may not be SoE's thought process.

Either way SoE has already said they won't be doing an open Copy system for test. If they feel they want to put money into a seperate server then that is up to them. Like I pointed out above I have a feeling it will cost alot in both money and resources to run another "Test" server.

/shrug just my 2cp :smileyvery-happy:

PhourZwanZig · 07-11-2005, 09:22 PM

Ive been on test since the beginning of test.. And I myself maybe bug something 1-3 times a week.. I dont see them that often..(well lately) but really my question is what would an Alt Test server do.. there are a few things that arent being taken into account.. How would you let such chaos exist 1. No need to buy stuff 2. Choosing your own lvl 3. Random Naming 4. etc. alot of the ideas youve listed that this server can have would need a dif code write up to begin w/.. an how would that be a close enuf copy to the Live world to even acomplish anything.. IMOH I feel a server like this will only have SOE seaching for bugs that dont exist in the Test and Live servers cuz their caus is due to the coding to make that server exist in the way it does.. stuff like this is just stupid.. If an alter was born it'd have to have the same rules as to the live servers.. and be basiclly a copy of the live server to be its truest.. but not "I wanna play a lvl 50 2day.." /test_lvl_50 MUHAHAHA Im uber now.. just *shakes-head* not right.. Phour.

Daffid011 · 07-11-2005, 09:43 PM

Maybe it is not your idea, but the manner in which you present it. Cheers,

Na · 07-11-2005, 09:48 PM

Eyes_of_Truth wrote:

Well, if you care to take note, anything on this particular post that has the word "copy" or the phrase "second test server" gets an instant 1 star from you people and im trying to not sound accusing here but thats just how i observed it.

You're assuming that it's someone in the Test community that's one starring you. That's not necessarily an accurate assumption.

07-05-2005, 11:16 PM	#6
Iseabeil Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 661	i havent played as much on test as i planned to, but i know of many times when bugs have been reported and yet made it live. id say most of bugs we see arent there cause test missed them, they are there cause they werent seen as bad enough to delay the update hitting live. wether this is a good or bad thing is of course debatable, but thats SoEs choise. having copid toons would not improve the situation, might even risk to slow it down as overrepeated /bugs takes time to go through. __________________

07-06-2005, 07:13 AM	#7
HanktheDwarf Tester Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 249	Kreegan wrote: Some guilds are asked to testy high end raid content. For those tests the guild is copied over for a short amount of time. The devs have already said they have no intention of allowing people to copy their characters over to test. They want individuals who are willing to actually test and try to find and report bugs and issues. They do not want to set up a system where people can copy their character over a few days before a live update just to see how their character is affected. /giggle. They aren't copied for 'a short amount of time'. That would imply they are deleted after use. Which they aren't. In fact, some of them are copied over multiple times, as evident by the guild tag having not one, but two x's at the end of the name.

07-08-2005, 03:34 PM	#9
Fire&ice Tester Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 81	/agree Heiro :smileysad: __________________ Liria Firetail, 43 Kerra Wizard Azato Bearclaw, 60 Woodelf Mystic, 61 Woodworker Children of War on Test Server Jamin, 42 Gnome Brigand Aggro Fish on Kithicor Server

07-08-2005, 08:04 PM	#10
TheMightyTaco Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 115	Kreegan wrote: They do not want to set up a system where people can copy their character over a few days before a live update just to see how their character is affected. Nothing against what you said, Kreegan. But if the quoted statement is true then they are purposefully trying to get people to NOT test changes. It seems to me if you want to test how changes have affected the game you'd want people to test how changes have affected the game. :smileyvery-happy: __________________

07-08-2005, 08:15 PM	#11
EtoilePirate Tester Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 1,258	MisterCode wrote: Kreegan wrote: They do not want to set up a system where people can copy their character over a few days before a live update just to see how their character is affected. Nothing against what you said, Kreegan. But if the quoted statement is true then they are purposefully trying to get people to NOT test changes. It seems to me if you want to test how changes have affected the game you'd want people to test how changes have affected the game. :smileyvery-happy: Test goes on Live Builds between patches. In fact, we're on a live build right now, or at least we were when I last logged in. It's not like Test is 100% of the time a totally different server. Right now, Test and Live are the exact same. Then they patch Test with something new and shiny, and that's a Test build, and we can all tell if it's the same or different because of, well, if it's the same or different. Once in a while there are things we can't remember, true, but usually those "is this different, or am I imagining..." questions are answered (1) by reviewing logs, and (2) by detailed patch notes, when we can actually get them. Also we can communicate directly with QA and devs and ask them if they changed something. But anyway, we do test how changes have affected the game, because we go on Live builds in between patches. That's what I'm getting at. __________________ Kella The Mighty Pirate, Assassin & Tailor Nimari, Fury-at-Large Test Server

07-05-2005, 08:22 PM	#1
PorkCho Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 24	Without paying money. Im not going to pay $200 (my wifes character and mine) to help you test. You want us to help, give us the resources to test. Since we are doing Sony and Everquest2 a service, why can we not just be able to copy our chracters over free of charge. Every service you have(Sony, EQ2) costs, think of our service as costing 1 free character transfer per account.

07-05-2005, 09:19 PM	#2
Aura08 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2	I have heard about whole guilds being copied over to test servers. These guilds even said they were given a copy of there normal char onto the test servers. I ready about them saying there guild was back when froglocks were put in and there was alot of angry people because this guild was given the right to have there char copied onto test servers and no one else is able to. They were/are able to log in and test all the new stuff as a guild. People were complaining that it was unfar for this whole guild to get there char's copied to test server. I agree with this because the other day I sent in a request to get my char copied over to test servers because I wanted to help them test high lvl content, but I did not feel like lvl'ing a test char all the way to 50. I was told that they can not, and are not allowed to copy a char over to a test server and closed the request. I sent another way saying about that whole guild that was copied over to test and after a week and a half I deleted it because I seen they would not reply.

07-05-2005, 09:32 PM	#3
Kreegan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 21	Some guilds are asked to testy high end raid content. For those tests the guild is copied over for a short amount of time. The devs have already said they have no intention of allowing people to copy their characters over to test. They want individuals who are willing to actually test and try to find and report bugs and issues. They do not want to set up a system where people can copy their character over a few days before a live update just to see how their character is affected.

07-05-2005, 09:45 PM	#4
Aura08 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2	This is a good reason for them not to send copys of char over to test. But they have to look at the facts. The people on the test server are not getting the job done. This can be do to them not trying, or to the fact of they are missing the lvl range of char's to give this content a good test. It seeming to only be getting worse and not better. The patchs are taking longer and longer to load into the game and they are having more and more bugs in the game itself. I remember when they first changed the CT hear of fear quest with those gems. A few friends and myself went in to do it and everything we started the ring event on top the temple the zone would crash. We tested this 4 times and every time we started the ring it would crash the zone. Sometimes it was take a few waves of the ring event to happen. That quest was a high demand quest back then and somthing that big should have been found out in test. Most likly there just was not the amout of people that lvl range to even do the event. If we were allowed to copy ONLY 1 char to test then those people who want to help make the game better and have less buggs when the content is released would be in there working on finding them those bugs. Untill that time we can only complain about test servers not getting the job done, and having to deal with content with so many bugs people do not want to even go in it. Like with splitpaw I have 3groups disband because they were just going to wait till the splitpaw zones get fixed because it was so bad it was crashing ever half hour or more. Then the lower tunnels zones was not even up it was crashed till the servers were taken down later in the day for a patch to fix some of the stuff in that zone

07-05-2005, 10:15 PM	#5
Na General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 59	Aura0819 wrote:The people on the test server are not getting the job done... Untill that time we can only complain about test servers not getting the job done, and having to deal with content with so many bugs people do not want to even go in it. I've said it once and I'll continue to say it. Unless you play on test, unless you can read the Tester Only Forum (not this public one), you have NO idea which bugs have and have not been reported by the players on the test server. Just because a bug does not get fixed before it goes live does not mean that the test server population isn't doing their job. Is it probable that they miss bugs? Certainly. I don't think anyone on the test server would claim that they catch 100% of the bugs. But more than likely SOE has determined that the bug isn't severe enough to be fixed before going to live. There have also been several devs who've stated that copying the data to the live servers can cause bugs. What does that mean? That for some reason when the data was posted to the test server, the bug didn't exist but once the data was copied to the live server it introduced the bug. There would be no way for the test server population to catch that.

07-07-2005, 04:58 PM	#8
Heiro Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 146	Poor horsie... dead and still being beat on

07-09-2005, 12:19 AM	#12
TheMightyTaco Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 115	I didn't mean to imply that SOE doesn't see the changes that have been made. What I meant to point out was that people moving characters from live to test to see what the changes do to their characters is a good thing. Take for instance, the 200% deadly trap damage on solo instances of Splitpaw. I have a character on test but didn't get a chance to go near Splitpaw because he is just a lowly level 6 at this point. If I was able to copy my main over, I'd be able to run him through and see just what was in store. Perhaps testing DID get feedback about chests killing people in solo instances (forcing them the revive and loose their loot). I'd hope that the problem wasn't that the bug/behavior was intended or ignored, but rather noone tested it. That is all I was getting at. If the testing feedback was ignored then it's all moot and there isn't a real need for a test server anyway. __________________

07-09-2005, 01:25 AM	#13
Kreegan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 21	MisterCode wrote: Kreegan wrote: They do not want to set up a system where people can copy their character over a few days before a live update just to see how their character is affected. Nothing against what you said, Kreegan. But if the quoted statement is true then they are purposefully trying to get people to NOT test changes. It seems to me if you want to test how changes have affected the game you'd want people to test how changes have affected the game. :smileyvery-happy: What I ment by my post was that if SOE allowed everyone to copy over their characters at-will then you'd get far more people loggin on to see how the changes affected them than doing actual testing. By actual testng I mean someone who see's something wrong, tries it again to see if its repeatabel, files a detailed bug report, and then discusses it on the Test Forums. Someone logging in and seeing what the new recast time is on their favorite spell so they can go to the forums and complain about a nerf wont help anyone, but unfortunately you'd probably get more of those than actual testers.

07-09-2005, 03:48 AM	#14
Heiro Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 146	Enough people on test did run the splitpaw instance, and continue to do so. Personally, I have ran the upper tunnels at least 8 times ( on all 3 lvls) and havent died to a trapped chest yet. Same with Harclave, Numerous runs on each level of difficulty, never died to a chest... did die to the fall though (stupid cat jumping on the desk while jumping off the plank). Solo arena, defeated more times than any sane person should... Hideout, same .. numerous runs, no chest deaths.... There are numerous low, mid, high level people on test who do test things quite frequently, and repeatedly. The majority of them are permanent residents who did the 1-50 grind numerous times. ( personally I know of one person with 3 lvl 50 chars, all done on test, and 2 of them in less time than it has taken me to grind one guy to 48.) So while we dont have 100+ lvl 50s on the server, we do have a goodly number of higher levels, and more people are approaching each day. Things are getting tested, bugs are being reported, DEVs are being talked to and things are being communicated back and forth. People who want to truly help, will not have an issue with either a character MOVE or just starting up some new characters, as the grind for someone who is familiar with the ins and outs is much less on TEST because of the knowledge already gained, and the bonus exp. IMO Whining for a copy so you get a chance to TEST what affects you, isnt going to help the population in general. IF someone truly wants to help, they would be by now.. and the lvl grind would not even be a factor. *WHACK WHACK WHACK ... take that you dead horse* Message Edited by Heiro on 07-08-2005 04:50 PM

07-09-2005, 04:23 AM	#15
Kreegan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 21	I think if SOE offered a one free MOVE to Test Server that would be a good compromise. Not a copy, but a move. Then those who truly want to test and not have to regrind would be appeased, and those who just want to copy onto test to play around will still be kept off.

07-09-2005, 05:33 AM	#16
RedFeather General Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 408	Personally I would have taken the route of frequent Test Server wipes, and reimplementing /testbuffs. The /testbuffs would be given level caps dependent on exactly what content needed to be tested at the time. After all this is about effectively testing new content as diversly as possible (ei: with every class/subclass), not having to focus on developing a single character. I have no idea why this isn't being done. :smileyindifferent:

07-09-2005, 05:48 AM	#17
EtoilePirate Tester Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 1,258	Kreegan wrote: I think if SOE offered a one free MOVE to Test Server that would be a good compromise. Not a copy, but a move. Then those who truly want to test and not have to regrind would be appeased, and those who just want to copy onto test to play around will still be kept off. I agree. The last /movelog brought a lot of Test's best-known and most dedicated players over. I think they should offer one every month or every two months or something. __________________ Kella The Mighty Pirate, Assassin & Tailor Nimari, Fury-at-Large Test Server

07-09-2005, 05:50 AM	#18
EtoilePirate Tester Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 1,258	RedFeather1975 wrote: Personally I would have taken the route of frequent Test Server wipes, and reimplementing /testbuffs. The /testbuffs would be given level caps dependent on exactly what content needed to be tested at the time. After all this is about effectively testing new content as diversly as possible (ei: with every class/subclass), not having to focus on developing a single character. I have no idea why this isn't being done. :smileyindifferent: This gets said a lot, but here goes one more time: The thing about testing is that it's not just the new content that needs reveiwing. Certain patches have broken the mail, recipes, totally unrelated skills, griffons, and what-have-you. If you don't have people running all over the world acting like people, the new bugs in old content dont' get picked up, and then the people on live servers who ARE running all over the world acting like people get all complainy when their old stuff breaks. __________________ Kella The Mighty Pirate, Assassin & Tailor Nimari, Fury-at-Large Test Server

07-09-2005, 06:31 AM	#19
Eyes_of_Truth Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	I have said this alot and ill make it brief. two test servers. One in it's current state and the 2nd where you have GM level of testing acess like make your character any level, any class, and gear. 2nd server would only havea hand full of zones one for each tier. This 2nd server would be strictly for combat/item testing. No community on 2nd test server. Nothing to gain from playing 2nd test server other than to find bugs or test out skills/ca/spells before they go live. This would have absolutly no affect on any server besides it'self. GTG raid time in DFC lol back later to explain better! Toodles!

07-09-2005, 06:56 AM	#20
RedFeather General Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 408	This gets said a lot, but here goes one more time: The thing about testing is that it's not just the new content that needs reveiwing. Certain patches have broken the mail, recipes, totally unrelated skills, griffons, and what-have-you. If you don't have people running all over the world acting like people, the new bugs in old content dont' get picked up, and then the people on live servers who ARE running all over the world acting like people get all complainy when their old stuff breaks. I can't argue with that Etoile. But a comprimise would need to be established. A test server, as well as a pre-live server. One would allow persistent character advancement on a concentric server (as test to live content does need to be approached your way). The other would allow /testbuffing and server wipes, for it would be the hardcore testing phase and would only be done effectively if there was nothing to interefere with it. I see persistent character advancement on a test server as detracting from the true focus required to accurately test specific content issues. Perhaps SOE has already gone this route, and we simply don't have access to this other testing phase. If that's the case, then I shut my trap now. YUP! :smileyindifferent: Message Edited by RedFeather1975 on 07-08-2005 08:03 PM

07-10-2005, 08:33 PM	#21
Picknose Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Mexico Posts: 17	A MOVE (take character delete it on live put on test) of a character to test server would not bother me so much. A COPY does bother me. A COPY has no root to the server. If a copy gets tired of downtime he simply returns to his / her server and is done with it. A COPY can be rude, and be a griefer and cause problems for people trying to test with no worries, he can always return to his / her original server with no worry about how thay re perseecved. I am not saying all copies would be this way, but having been on test servers (WOW, DAOC) where characters are copied if have seen how a very few can ruin the experience for the manay. When you are MOVED you are stuck, since there are no character moves off of test you are stuck, much like the exchange servers (blegh). How you play and are perceived by others will determine how well you fit in, and if you do not then tuff it out and keep going. That said, come to test, make a new character. We have a slightly increased exp bonus and it would take an experienced player just a few short weeks to be at the top of the heap again. Once there you will have much the same feelings as those of us who have in fact worked up and discovered numerous bugs and reported them on nearly a daily basis. That feeling is ownership of the test process. You will never have that as a copied character since you have nothing to keep you on the server when a patch is put out that is so horrible you can die a dosen times before you can even log off the game, or loose all your gear to a bug, or any number of other things that send most people running from the server. Yet we who stick it out are a friendly group of rejects who plod along and take favor among those of us who do the same. BB

07-10-2005, 09:01 PM	#22
Naughtesn General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 271	Blah blah - let us copy. I'm really tired of the test "community" fighting this idea...it wouldn't be the end of the world...the sky will not fall...if the Chicken Littles of the world would just realize that what is in place IS... NOT ....WORKING, then maybe, just maybe the process can be improved. Anyone can be a griefer, anyone can play recklessly, you want more people to test & feedback on all levels - let ppl copy. Otherwise, we are stuck with this poor excuse for a testing system. As long as there is a tiny population on test, that is. But I'm starting to lose interest in lobbying for copying because clearly the DEVs are happy with the level of quality of patches hitting live - as if they are almost resigned to the fact that there will be issues affecting gameplay negatively with every update. I am certain that a lot of bugs that make it to live are reported, but since so few actually post bugs on the forums, we really have no idea. More ppl testing, even for short periods (like the guilds that are copied over - said copied guilds haven't ruined the server community, have they, testies?), along with public posting of issues might shame the DEVs on holding back updates until they are more ready. But as long as Test remains a clique-y, closed environment - nothing will change. And to those that say roll up a toon on test...I have 2 lev 50 "live" characters, I have no interest in running another up at this time (which doesn't translate to me not being "dedicated" enough to test - it simply means I have done the grind and don't want to again). What would be nice is if there were a mechanism to allow me to take the time invested in these toons and put them to good use. __________________ Hausbau, 80 Coercer

07-11-2005, 10:09 AM	#23
Eyes_of_Truth Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	Read this from start to finish, dont turn away at the first line. This is not a hate reply to Test.community, but a helpfull alternative Testserver2. This is crap. I know you guys in test want your "community" to say in-tact but why in the name of all things good would you come by and one-star shoot my post that has an ALTERNATIVE test server idea for TESTING MECANICS........ not a community test server like it currently is, but a 2nd test server to physically beable to test anything and everyhitng in the game. Tell me one level 50 raid encaonter or one person that has a ton of fabled gear or one person on thest that is int a level 30 guild and has the spirit hourse / magic carpit... these things cant be tested in the current test with out MONTHS of investment of time. On my perposed test server2, these would be avalible to everone, as would every item, class, level, quality of spell in the game, anything you could ever want to test should be allowed. ABSOLUTLY NOTHING FROM THIS TEST SERVER2 WOULD NEGATIVLY OR POSSITIVLY AFFECT ANY OTHER SERVER INCLUDING TEST1... I cant stress that enough... if i here that they are gona fix my Conjuror's fire pet, i dont think i should have to level a conjuror up on the test server to just TEST this new ability to amke sure its working so i can provide and feedback on this skill. This is one of the many examples why a actual test server would be needed. If you dont want your community disturbed by "haters and grievers", but this would help your testserver1 greatly then, as these "vill disgusting people that will cause your server to burn and die" will flock to this test2 to just make a uber character and goof around... but there are peoplelike myself who dont want to do community test but rather character and itemization testing, and they deserve a test server and have every right to one as you do. If you cant respect the wishes of others, then thats your problem and not mine. And in no way am i saying you do a poor job, far from it. You guys catch SO many common bugs that only a community server could catch, but there are also just as many class issues that make it though your net. That is where test2 comes in. Players can copy their characters from live to test2 in order to see how upcoming changes will affect their character, or to test how much effect a skill upgrade (like going form adept3 to master1) truely is, to make a sound purchase on upgrades. So many people would not pay 3pp+ for masters if they new how truely little this one master might be. Sometimes it's within 10 damage or heal of the adept 3, or sometimes it doesnt upgrade it at all! These kind of choices can be better made if you could "try before you buy" on test2. There is no reasion that a level 50 character on live shuld have to reroll on test to simpley test their level 50 spell. test2 would fix this problem with out harming you or your close nit friends. Maby they should call the current test server "Test.commnity" and new test "Test.mecanics" I know there are going to be people that say "that kind of testing is what devs have access to, just go be a dev and get over it." TBH I WANT to be a developer... it's jsut that currently my age pervents that, im only 16. Test2 would give people like me a a way to truely TEST specific information that we need. It all boils down to this: Test.Commuit- there to find the every day bugs that occur when playing the game in a normal communit setting. Test.Mechanics- there to get specific feedback on skills/items and other game mechanics, it would have no community, everytime you log in your character has a randomly generated name (or the name of your copied characters) and is a level 1 generic everytime you log onto test.mec.Nothing is concrete. No money, as al items are avalible, and the only reasion to leave loot drops in is to make sure random_boss mob doesnt drop crapy level 10 styuff or somethign odd like that. This server would have nothing to gain but the aid of players finding broken or bad skills and replying with possible fixes. If YOU personaly dont want to partake in Test.Mec, simply dont, it has no affect on you. If someone on Steamfont kills some raid mob, does test feel anything from this? Same for test.community and test.mechanic. Please dont knock this idea untill you give it some serious thought. Toodles!

07-11-2005, 04:01 PM	#24
Fire&ice Tester Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 81	Like I have said before and will say again...If you want to play on Test, then come join us crazies over here and have some fun! If not then don't /shrug. I left a lvl 45 character on live to make a character on Test (I currently have 3 now in various lvls). My main character on Test has steadily climbed and I have had a blast getting her up to where she is now. It is your choice and everyone should do what makes them happy. If you aren't happy making a new character then don't, but bringing up this discussion over and over and over again isn't going to help... Poor, poor, poor horsey :smileysad: __________________ Liria Firetail, 43 Kerra Wizard Azato Bearclaw, 60 Woodelf Mystic, 61 Woodworker Children of War on Test Server Jamin, 42 Gnome Brigand Aggro Fish on Kithicor Server

07-11-2005, 05:02 PM	#25
Daffid011 Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 223	Eyes_of__truth, why are you preaching to the test server and blaming us for one starring your post? It really isn't fair to ask people to be open minded to your idea when you are not open minded in return by casting accusations. __________________ ======================== Fekkin (Berserker)-Test Server Kajir (Coercer)-Test Server ========================

07-11-2005, 07:28 PM	#26
Eyes_of_Truth Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	Well, if you care to take note, anything on this particular post that has the word "copy" or the phrase "second test server" gets an instant 1 star from you people and im trying to not sound accusing here but thats just how i observed it. Please just answer one question, how am i going to test the changes to my conjuror who is level 28 live if i dont completely move him to test or completely reroll him on test?? i realy wana know, i allready have a community test toon, and he's ok for testing community stuff, but what if i have a specific area that im concerned in that i simply whant to log in, copy character and see how different (good or bad) and what possible problems and bugs he might have? I have no wish to reinvest days of my time to re-level a character to simply test one aspect of said character. To me im the one that feels insulted that you probley didnt even give my possitive idea any real thougt and (im not saysing you all did this) but one stared it because it's not what you personaly want to do. If you could find any reasion that a second and seprit test server would be detrmental to any and i mean ANY server please inform me i honestly and truely wana know so we could figure out how to make it work... Im not a bad guy people and im sorry if i came out that way, it's just frustraiting. I wana test one thing, yet to test that one thing, everyone is screaming "well just mkae a test toon and get over it" but i cant make my kind of test toon. There are alot of ways to test, and my mecanical way it seems is fround upon for some reasion unbeknownst to me. This is not ment for humor, im truely serious and would love some answers, i realy and honestly just plain and simple want to know... Why would you not want another test server for testing specific things vs your test server that actually is a functioning community server? It's just another option that has no effect upon any other server (that i can see atleast, if you find one please inform me) Think of this as a servay. PLease post reponses as to why you do or do not want a second test.mechanic server. Toodles! Message Edited by Eyes_of_Truth on 07-11-2005 08:33 AM

07-11-2005, 08:15 PM	#27
Fire&ice Tester Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 81	The reason, in the eyes of a corporation, I would think is cost...Why have a basically unused server opperational?...it cost more to run it than it would be worth to them. But that is my way of thinking /shrug...it may or may not be SoE's thought process. Either way SoE has already said they won't be doing an open Copy system for test. If they feel they want to put money into a seperate server then that is up to them. Like I pointed out above I have a feeling it will cost alot in both money and resources to run another "Test" server. /shrug just my 2cp :smileyvery-happy: __________________ Liria Firetail, 43 Kerra Wizard Azato Bearclaw, 60 Woodelf Mystic, 61 Woodworker Children of War on Test Server Jamin, 42 Gnome Brigand Aggro Fish on Kithicor Server

07-11-2005, 09:22 PM	#28
PhourZwanZig Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 39	Ive been on test since the beginning of test.. And I myself maybe bug something 1-3 times a week.. I dont see them that often..(well lately) but really my question is what would an Alt Test server do.. there are a few things that arent being taken into account.. How would you let such chaos exist 1. No need to buy stuff 2. Choosing your own lvl 3. Random Naming 4. etc. alot of the ideas youve listed that this server can have would need a dif code write up to begin w/.. an how would that be a close enuf copy to the Live world to even acomplish anything.. IMOH I feel a server like this will only have SOE seaching for bugs that dont exist in the Test and Live servers cuz their caus is due to the coding to make that server exist in the way it does.. stuff like this is just stupid.. If an alter was born it'd have to have the same rules as to the live servers.. and be basiclly a copy of the live server to be its truest.. but not "I wanna play a lvl 50 2day.." /test_lvl_50 MUHAHAHA Im uber now.. just shakes-head not right.. Phour. __________________ Mind my spelling, the checker needs a good boot.... Also Test Subjects are: 31 Fury - Tinker

07-11-2005, 09:43 PM	#29
Daffid011 Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 223	Maybe it is not your idea, but the manner in which you present it. Cheers, __________________ ======================== Fekkin (Berserker)-Test Server Kajir (Coercer)-Test Server ========================

07-11-2005, 09:48 PM	#30
Na General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 59	Eyes_of_Truth wrote: Well, if you care to take note, anything on this particular post that has the word "copy" or the phrase "second test server" gets an instant 1 star from you people and im trying to not sound accusing here but thats just how i observed it. You're assuming that it's someone in the Test community that's one starring you. That's not necessarily an accurate assumption.