I seek for verification of Boney Grasp nerf.

Andre · 06-23-2005, 01:41 PM

Please anyone could confirm that duration is now 12 sec?

BarryT · 06-23-2005, 02:09 PM

Bony Grasp Nerf? Does that also mean there is a Ring Of Cold nerf on the way?

Ar-Cunin · 06-23-2005, 04:27 PM

BarryT wrote:

Bony Grasp Nerf? Does that also mean there is a Ring Of Cold nerf on the way?

According to another thread Ring of Cold is also 12 sec now.

Andre · 06-23-2005, 05:11 PM

I'm just wondering, why they not remind about such HUGE thing im Patch notes? Overseen? SMILEY

BarryT · 06-23-2005, 06:13 PM

D'oh and double d'oh...That's not good...

Ravenmi · 06-23-2005, 06:49 PM

(reposting this from another thread)

12 seconds for a root that takes 4 seconds to cast, has a 45 second recast timer and takes 140 power to cast and has a chance of drawing outside encounter agro is absolutely insane.

If this is a nerf and not a bug then this is one of the dumbest things I've seen them do lately. A 12 second root is nearly worthless, a 12 second root that takes 4 seconds to cast is almost completely worthless. Add in the 45 second recast timer and this spell is nothing but a complete waste of power and time.

I can't imagine why any Warlock or Wizard would use it in that state.

If you want to reduce the duration then you need to reduce the cast timer significantly.. 2 seconds Maybe.. and drop the recast timer down a large chunk and probably give them a small power cost reduction.

If you intend it to be a last ditch try and get away type spell then make it instant cast, no power and get it over with.

I think its just silly that level 40-50 Warlocks and Wizards are running around using thier level 19 root spell still, and thats going to be thier only root spell after this change.

If this is a bug.. fix it.. if this is a nerf.. please give these guys a break and don't do something stupid.

- Ravenmist, Warden of the Unrest Server

Jethro · 06-23-2005, 07:01 PM

Since it's not in the notes, I'm assuming it wasn't intended and give them the benefit of the doubt. If it is an intentional, it's just dumb and really doesn't do much for my desire to play. They have already ruined PF, making it so bad I took it off my spell bar. I have never encountered a situation where bony grasp made me feel like I had godly powers, in fact I have been killed several times by the aoe effect drawing unwanted aggro. Don't break our only working root, please.

Mage-Apprentice · 06-23-2005, 07:23 PM

Welcome to the world of chanters, they have the "same" kinda of root's but even worse they are single targeted and can break in 1 sec/hit.

The way it was before made warlock's gods, they could solo any ^^ mob they wanted (ok, not red ones).

Sony can't seems to find a balanced root that doesn't last to long/short hasn't a too long/short (re)cast time.

For the health of the game a fix was needed, but roots in general seem to suck heavely now, this is a shame.

Fepp · 06-23-2005, 07:31 PM

Mage-Apprentice wrote:
The way it was before made warlock's gods, they could solo any ^^ mob they wanted (ok, not red ones).

I play a warlock and can tell you this is 100% not true. Sure, we could solo certain mobs in certain area - big open area, hardly any roamers, spread out mobs, clearly marked escape routes were all required. Chances are if we actually needed a mob, one of the above would be missing.

Isengrim · 06-23-2005, 07:37 PM

I hope some explaination is given soon as to why this went in and why it was done in a shady manner. Regards, Izzy :smileyhappy: 50 Wizard/20 Sage Black Talons - Najena Edit: Why did this response warrant a 1-star? /sigh... children.

Message Edited by Isengrim on 06-23-2005 11:21 AM

Ravenmi · 06-23-2005, 07:44 PM

Mage-Apprentice wrote:
The way it was before made warlock's gods, they could solo any ^^ mob they wanted (ok, not red ones).

You really don't seem to have any idea what your talking about. Warlocks are not gods.. yeah our guilds top Warlock can solo stuff pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] well, killing smaller targets and solo targets with amazing speed. But ^^ mobs give Warlocks lots of trouble, anything higher then a blue is a serious risk and most likely death and even blue/green have to be handled very very carefully.

Theres a reason why most Warlocks that solo a lot die pretty often, heh. One bad resist or one mistake and they end up goo on the bottom of the mobs shoe.

They are far from Gods.. My Warden can more consistantly solo a target then a Warlock can, and a lot safer. Just takes a hell of a lot longer, lol.

Jethro · 06-23-2005, 08:00 PM

Exactly. I can solo green ^^ mobs fairly easily with my warlock , but then so can my troubadour, the worst DPS non-healer class in the game. I guess things have come full circle, and I'll go back to my troubadour now. No fun for joo!

Splatterpunk28 · 06-23-2005, 08:11 PM

There's a screenshot of it on warlock's forum -- it is in test, which means it will more than likely go live.

All I ask is for this one question to be answer: There are several classes that can solo better than we can as it is...so shall other classes expect a nerf coming to their solo abilities as well?

If you guys are going to go through with it, fine -- add more "solo" content for 45+ players and feel free to nerf half the other classes.

It'd also be awesome if you opened up a new server for people that play off-peak hours, have free transfers with items, so that we can get xp since we will no longer be able to solo anywhere near as efficiently as those grouped.

Barakas · 06-23-2005, 08:18 PM

Well, when you have a certain vocal warlock running about on all of the boards stating about how awesome they are compared to all other mage classes (but a wizard).....well, in comes the bat.

I've seen first hand wizards/warloks solo'ing heroice ^^ mobs two levels above them. Even if other classes can do that how long does it take them versus the warlock/wizard to do it. Just think about it.

RandomPlay · 06-23-2005, 09:16 PM

If this is a bug, fix it.

If this is an unfinished nerf and you intend to turn down the power cost, recast timer, and cast times to make it more in line with the 66% shorter duration, do it and doc it fast.

If this is only intended to go live with the rest of the balance changes, let us know soon.

If this is a nerf that is finished and functioning as intended and will go live with LU 11, document it. And it's a bad call. I don't understand why you can't fix broken spells because they are going to be rewritten anyway as part of the mythical still-no-eta-my-god-don't-you-even-have-a-plan balancing patch, yet nerfs keep going in. Emergency fixes, sure, but this isn't a gamebreaking ability.

I play a warlock. I use BG sparingly. I have solo'ed blue and green heroic mobs with it. I've even done an even con white one once. But here's the story most people don't know:
We use BG because so many of our other roots are useless in combat (like Paralyzing Fear), and it's not all roses:
20% = success, after careful planning and trying several strategies to learn how, I solo'ed a heroic - yay me!
30% = I died. bah.
50% = I run due to resist, going OOM, adds, or bad luck, I'll try again later if I can outrun this mob
Elapsed time = the same as 5-10 yellow con solo mobs, which never kill me, and require almost no tactics or planning
Cost = requires adept I's and III's on all my spells and alot more trips to the mender, plus potions for power regen
XP Reward = nice XP, but only slightly more than I would have gotten for killing solo mobs this whole time.
Loot Reward = better chance at Adept or treasured items, but overall a loss because the 5-10 solo mobs would have dropped a chest or two which I could sell and buy any adept or treasured item I needed.

Other classes can and do solo heroics. Some classes can do it with just auto-attack while AFK.

So tell me again, if this isn't a bug, why BG was so overpowered that it had to be nerfed immediately?

RP

Jethro · 06-23-2005, 10:10 PM

Blackguard replied to a similar thread on the Warlock board. Seems this change wasn't meant to go live yet and there will be adjustments to duration, recast time, power consumption as well which are not implemented yet. He also mentioned that it's not just a BG nerf, seems CC spells in general are being adjusted. I'd post the link but I'm too lazy.

Styx69 · 06-24-2005, 12:07 AM

Heres the link

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=8726#M8726

06-23-2005, 04:27 PM	#3
Ar-Cunin Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 58	BarryT wrote: Bony Grasp Nerf? Does that also mean there is a Ring Of Cold nerf on the way? According to another thread Ring of Cold is also 12 sec now.

06-23-2005, 07:23 PM	#8
Mage-Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 118	Welcome to the world of chanters, they have the "same" kinda of root's but even worse they are single targeted and can break in 1 sec/hit. The way it was before made warlock's gods, they could solo any ^^ mob they wanted (ok, not red ones). Sony can't seems to find a balanced root that doesn't last to long/short hasn't a too long/short (re)cast time. For the health of the game a fix was needed, but roots in general seem to suck heavely now, this is a shame. __________________ ************************************* VanguardFlames.com

06-23-2005, 07:31 PM	#9
Fepp General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 189	Mage-Apprentice wrote: The way it was before made warlock's gods, they could solo any ^^ mob they wanted (ok, not red ones). I play a warlock and can tell you this is 100% not true. Sure, we could solo certain mobs in certain area - big open area, hardly any roamers, spread out mobs, clearly marked escape routes were all required. Chances are if we actually needed a mob, one of the above would be missing. __________________ General-Tetlee-Of-Monged-45-Predator-General-Tetlee-Of-Monged General-Tetlee-Of-Monged-45-Predator-General-Tetlee-Of-Monged General-Tetlee-Of-Monged-45-Predator-General-Tetlee-Of-Monged General-Tetlee-Of-Monged-45-Predator-General-Tetlee-Of-Monged General-Tetlee-Of-Monged-45-Predator-General-Tetlee-Of-Monged General-Tetlee-Of-Monged-45-Predator-General-Tetlee-Of-Monged General-Tetlee-Of-Monged-45-Predator-General-Tetlee-Of-Monged

06-23-2005, 07:37 PM	#10
Isengrim Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 42	I hope some explaination is given soon as to why this went in and why it was done in a shady manner. Regards, Izzy :smileyhappy: 50 Wizard/20 Sage Black Talons - Najena Edit: Why did this response warrant a 1-star? /sigh... children. Message Edited by Isengrim on 06-23-2005 11:21 AM __________________ Isengrim Hamfast ~Wizard~ Black Talons - Najena

06-23-2005, 07:44 PM	#11
Ravenmi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 402	Mage-Apprentice wrote: The way it was before made warlock's gods, they could solo any ^^ mob they wanted (ok, not red ones). You really don't seem to have any idea what your talking about. Warlocks are not gods.. yeah our guilds top Warlock can solo stuff pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] well, killing smaller targets and solo targets with amazing speed. But ^^ mobs give Warlocks lots of trouble, anything higher then a blue is a serious risk and most likely death and even blue/green have to be handled very very carefully. Theres a reason why most Warlocks that solo a lot die pretty often, heh. One bad resist or one mistake and they end up goo on the bottom of the mobs shoe. They are far from Gods.. My Warden can more consistantly solo a target then a Warlock can, and a lot safer. Just takes a hell of a lot longer, lol.

06-23-2005, 01:41 PM	#1
Andre Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 159	Please anyone could confirm that duration is now 12 sec?

06-23-2005, 02:09 PM	#2
BarryT Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 188	Bony Grasp Nerf? Does that also mean there is a Ring Of Cold nerf on the way?

06-23-2005, 05:11 PM	#4
Andre Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 159	I'm just wondering, why they not remind about such HUGE thing im Patch notes? Overseen?

06-23-2005, 06:13 PM	#5
BarryT Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 188	D'oh and double d'oh...That's not good...

06-23-2005, 06:49 PM	#6
Ravenmi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 402	(reposting this from another thread) 12 seconds for a root that takes 4 seconds to cast, has a 45 second recast timer and takes 140 power to cast and has a chance of drawing outside encounter agro is absolutely insane. If this is a nerf and not a bug then this is one of the dumbest things I've seen them do lately. A 12 second root is nearly worthless, a 12 second root that takes 4 seconds to cast is almost completely worthless. Add in the 45 second recast timer and this spell is nothing but a complete waste of power and time. I can't imagine why any Warlock or Wizard would use it in that state. If you want to reduce the duration then you need to reduce the cast timer significantly.. 2 seconds Maybe.. and drop the recast timer down a large chunk and probably give them a small power cost reduction. If you intend it to be a last ditch try and get away type spell then make it instant cast, no power and get it over with. I think its just silly that level 40-50 Warlocks and Wizards are running around using thier level 19 root spell still, and thats going to be thier only root spell after this change. If this is a bug.. fix it.. if this is a nerf.. please give these guys a break and don't do something stupid. - Ravenmist, Warden of the Unrest Server

06-23-2005, 07:01 PM	#7
Jethro Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 24	Since it's not in the notes, I'm assuming it wasn't intended and give them the benefit of the doubt. If it is an intentional, it's just dumb and really doesn't do much for my desire to play. They have already ruined PF, making it so bad I took it off my spell bar. I have never encountered a situation where bony grasp made me feel like I had godly powers, in fact I have been killed several times by the aoe effect drawing unwanted aggro. Don't break our only working root, please.

06-23-2005, 08:00 PM	#12
Jethro Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 24	Exactly. I can solo green ^^ mobs fairly easily with my warlock , but then so can my troubadour, the worst DPS non-healer class in the game. I guess things have come full circle, and I'll go back to my troubadour now. No fun for joo!

06-23-2005, 08:11 PM	#13
Splatterpunk28 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 447	There's a screenshot of it on warlock's forum -- it is in test, which means it will more than likely go live. All I ask is for this one question to be answer: There are several classes that can solo better than we can as it is...so shall other classes expect a nerf coming to their solo abilities as well? If you guys are going to go through with it, fine -- add more "solo" content for 45+ players and feel free to nerf half the other classes. It'd also be awesome if you opened up a new server for people that play off-peak hours, have free transfers with items, so that we can get xp since we will no longer be able to solo anywhere near as efficiently as those grouped.

06-23-2005, 08:18 PM	#14
Barakas Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 33	Well, when you have a certain vocal warlock running about on all of the boards stating about how awesome they are compared to all other mage classes (but a wizard).....well, in comes the bat. I've seen first hand wizards/warloks solo'ing heroice ^^ mobs two levels above them. Even if other classes can do that how long does it take them versus the warlock/wizard to do it. Just think about it.

06-23-2005, 09:16 PM	#15
RandomPlay Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 85	If this is a bug, fix it. If this is an unfinished nerf and you intend to turn down the power cost, recast timer, and cast times to make it more in line with the 66% shorter duration, do it and doc it fast. If this is only intended to go live with the rest of the balance changes, let us know soon. If this is a nerf that is finished and functioning as intended and will go live with LU 11, document it. And it's a bad call. I don't understand why you can't fix broken spells because they are going to be rewritten anyway as part of the mythical still-no-eta-my-god-don't-you-even-have-a-plan balancing patch, yet nerfs keep going in. Emergency fixes, sure, but this isn't a gamebreaking ability. I play a warlock. I use BG sparingly. I have solo'ed blue and green heroic mobs with it. I've even done an even con white one once. But here's the story most people don't know: We use BG because so many of our other roots are useless in combat (like Paralyzing Fear), and it's not all roses: 20% = success, after careful planning and trying several strategies to learn how, I solo'ed a heroic - yay me! 30% = I died. bah. 50% = I run due to resist, going OOM, adds, or bad luck, I'll try again later if I can outrun this mob Elapsed time = the same as 5-10 yellow con solo mobs, which never kill me, and require almost no tactics or planning Cost = requires adept I's and III's on all my spells and alot more trips to the mender, plus potions for power regen XP Reward = nice XP, but only slightly more than I would have gotten for killing solo mobs this whole time. Loot Reward = better chance at Adept or treasured items, but overall a loss because the 5-10 solo mobs would have dropped a chest or two which I could sell and buy any adept or treasured item I needed. Other classes can and do solo heroics. Some classes can do it with just auto-attack while AFK. So tell me again, if this isn't a bug, why BG was so overpowered that it had to be nerfed immediately? RP

06-23-2005, 10:10 PM	#16
Jethro Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 24	Blackguard replied to a similar thread on the Warlock board. Seems this change wasn't meant to go live yet and there will be adjustments to duration, recast time, power consumption as well which are not implemented yet. He also mentioned that it's not just a BG nerf, seems CC spells in general are being adjusted. I'd post the link but I'm too lazy.

06-24-2005, 12:07 AM	#17
Styx69 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4	Heres the link http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=8726#M8726