Change to housing upkeep in South Freeport house prices

[Tatali]

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BostonSailor wrote:

We can not afford 61g per week.  We have nearly 300 items in that 6g per week house which my friends and I purchased for 61 gold after being assured through petition that there was no problem with that price.

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That's something I've never understood about this game. A two room house rents for what, about 1g or so? Three room houses jump up to 60g. The two room can hold 200 items, 3 room 300 items. If SOE is really interested making it useful for people to share houses, why discourage them? If two people decide to split a 3-room house, not only are they paying WAY more than if each had a 2-room on their own, but they can't have as many items, roughly 150 each instead of 200 each. Yes bugs should be fixed, even ones that are benifical to the players. However, I think this puts a spotlight on the price of housing vs the value gained. Perhaps ALL house prices should be evaluated to determine if its really what SOE wants. Right now, the cost of housing goes up by a huge amount but the actual value only increases a tiny bit. Also, SOE should create a method for reclaiming items and built-in things from a house which has its rent expired. I never got the change to play with the housing in DAoC, but I recall Mythic adding an NPC in the housing districts who, after your house was removed due to lack of payment, would store your items until you claimed them. I would suggest SOE do something like that, when a house goes unpaid or is deleted, put a highlightable door somewhere in the city which is a "warehouse". Allow players to click that door to get a 'collect all' type button to get their house items back. Likewise, if a player spent 3-4pp to buy wall and floor upgrades, why should those always be lost? I think a player should be able to get at least part of their money back on those, if not be able to use them in their next house.

[vTenebr]

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Moorgard wrote:

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Haliken wrote:

Unless there are plans to alter the change in payment plans on the currently existing house owners there, I think that people should be given, for instance, a week or two's notice (for after the patch is through) to move out if they cannot pay the new cost, but allow them to keep the house rented out while they temporarily simultaneously purchase a second house to move their belongings into without need of hiring 10 people just to help them move.

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Since every other house of the same type in the area was a higher price, it should have been clear we'd catch it sooner or later. Of course, very few people report the beneficial bugs that exist in the game, but I digress.

 

Those who took advantage of our error have been able to enjoy reduced rent for a while now. That's fine. If they want to keep their house, they just have to pay the actual rent going forward. They can even pay the maximum amount of rent they can repay if they want, effectively keeping the cheaper price for longer. But we aren't going to put off the change just to accomodate those who were reaping a benefit they weren't intended to have.

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I beg your pardon! You know, I've been so supportive of so many of the changes SoE has foisted upon us in the name of fairness that I've been called a fan boi.  I didn't blink when SK horses were nerfed, I was supportive.  I don't gripe that much that SK really are considered useless at the high end of the game.  I figured those were just things I had to deal with within in the game.  I didn't love them, but I was supportive.  I've sucked up the fact that Qeynos is a walk in the park, candyland compared to Freeport for 50 levels.  It's SO painfully obvious the deck is stacked toward Qeynos that FP citizens are outnumbered at LEAST 2:1 on most servers.  So fine, you favor Qeynos, I lived. I was under the impression that ONE thing was the *ONE* perk Freeport had.  Out of DOZENS of inequities it was nice to see one advantage.  One little thing that made Freeport, in ONE way a good place to live.  But, hell.. I petitioned anyway.  JUST to make sure, because it seemed too good to be true.  I figured I'd ASK before I invested any time or money. HOWEVER, now you're, essentially, slapping me in the face and calling me a cheat.  I had NO IDEA this was a bug, especially since I *ASKED 2 SEPERATE GMs ABOUT IT AND THEY SAID IT WAS WORKING AS INTENDED*. Do you think I *EVER* would have moved in there and dropped CONSIDERABLE coin on a place if I thought, for even a moment, that it was a bug and that someday.. I would lose that home because I couldn't afford it?  Are you out of your MIND?  I'm not one of those farmers who sits online all day collecting items/coin ad nauseum.  I have a couple of gold to rub together only.  If I had THOUGHT that, after even ASKING, that the GMs were LYING to me.. I would *NOT HAVE MOVED INTO THAT HOUSE*. I've been nothing but genteel and been a staunch supporter, even in the face of 1 star warrior morons who whined about everything you did.  I've defended against most actions.  I would even have defended against this.. despite how much it bothers me and how screwed up I think it is.  (You should REALLY let your GMs in on things like bugs if you're going to blame the PLAYERS for their answers) Your response however is insulting, degrading, and downright rude.. assuming all your players, who live in that house, are exploiting cheats is bad form.

Message Edited by vTenebrae on 04-29-2005 05:37 PM

[CherobylJ]

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Jadrax wrote:

Well though sticky posts are hard to see i suppose,

You have no stickied posts on that forum, Homes and House Pets .  Are you are counting self-stickied? 

as well as all the others.

In your last 120+ messages you post there 4 times (easy enough to validate by looking at message history). 

And no, i havent posted about it as i live in Qeynos, and was made awear of it through the 8 or 9 posts about it in the housing forum, so dident see the point in reposting it.

You state yourself you didnt post on that board regarding this subject.  Yet you state that "If any of you had ever visited the housing forum, you would have know about this months ago, but i digress."?

I also researched threads referencing the SFP 3 bedroom over the last 90 days; there are ZERO threads asking for "this bug to be corrected" in that forum or other (not 8 or 9).  There are plenty of references that state there is BUG in that guild level housing of the same TIER is OVERPRICED.  There are numerous requests to LOWER the guild housing to match...not vice versa.

The fact remains that this was the only resnobly prices 3 room house in the game and the others should have come down to match it.

No argument there, something we agree on (/peace).  Its gonna be real rough on peeps who live there now with 300 items to relocate.

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[Ningirsu]

I rarely ever post on the forums, but this issue I defintely needed to speak up on.

 

Moorgard, you should be bloody fired for that comment...If I made a blanket statement about all my customers being theifs I'd be out of a job.

I know you are all powerful in this world, being a dev and all, but try not to let the god like power go to your head.

 

It must seem horrible to let Freeport actually HAVE a benefit over Qeynos, but perhaps you should actually just let this one go eh? I too had no idea this was a big....but evidently, if you devs had read the housing forums, you would of known that many people DID in fact try to let you know...but i suppose its too much to ask for you to listen to your customers

(after the horrible responses ive gotten from petitions, ive learned it IS  too much to ask )

 

I know Freeport is supposed to be harder and more challenging compared to Qeynos, thats what I picked it, but I seriously didnt expect to have EVERYTHING harder...so we have a cheaper 3 bedroom house,.big deal? its not a balance issue...

people in Qeynos will have to suffer with only a 2 bedroom house....but hey, there are a heck of a lot more of them...let them share a bigger house give us SOMETHING...

 

and try to keep your insults to a minimum ok?

 

-Ningirsu, Shadow Baron for the Innorin Empire

Antonia Bayle

[Fizzlecast]

Lets look at housing costs...

1br inn costs 5 silver a week in upkeep

2 br inn costs either 23 silver 60ish silver or 90ish silver, lets average that to 55 Silver a week.  55 Silver is roughly 10X the price of a one room, and holds double the stuff.

3 br houses cost 30ish gold (3000 silver) up to 60ish gold (6000 Silver) thats a price JUMP of 50 to 100 X the 2 br cost, but we only get 1/2 more of the items of the last room, not double.  The exception of course is a single 3br in Freeport that is 6 gold (600 silver) a week, which is right at 10X the price upgrade.  This house is the more reasonable priced house, if you look at it logically.

5br houses run at 2p or 4p a week (20000 or 40000 silver) Now, These houses are a little less than 10X the current 3br housing but closer to the 100X of the 6 gold a week house. 

So, in a nutshell  housing should

1br=5silver

2br=5silver X 10= 50 silver (which the houses average that  price, some cheaper, some more expensive)

3 br=50 silver X 10 = 500 silver (5 gold) which is what only one house comes close to costing.

5br =500 silver X 10 X 10 (because of 2 br jump) =50000 (5 plat)

Since 5br can only be bought with status, and status lowers monetary cost. 5br at bit below their cost. But the Current 3br dont fit even close into the above formula at 30 and 60 gold.

So if there was a mistake on sony's part, it seems that they made the 3br houses 10X too expensive except for the one they got 'right' in freeport.

I'm so upset I could cry... 4 days ago I finally saved up enough to buy the 3 br house for my carpenter, so that she would have enough room to show all the furniture items that she can craft.  I have been playing since release and it took me almost 5 months to be able to afford that house.  If they up the 3 br to the higher prices I will be back to stacking furniture on top of each other so that my customers will have a chance to See what their furniture looks like before ordering. 

My funnest times in the game were my two moves... it took me a couple of months but when I first moved into that 2br suite I thought I had moved into a palace.  I change walls and floors, I moved furniture, made a fireplace. everyother day I was rearranging or adding to my place.  Then I noticed that I had almost filled my place up and that it was time to start looking for a new place.  I saved for a Month straight (no new spells, no rares for furniture, no scrying stones) so that I could save up enough for a 3 br...

But I digress...

Please don't take my dream home away Sony...

[Xena]

I live in a 5 s, 1 room apartment so this doesn't affect me, however it seems all wrong to change this rent at a later date. 

If in the real word I rent a house or apartment for $x, after shopping for the best value, I don't expect the landlord to come back to me months later and say, "/Bah... you took advantage of me this house is much cheaper then the market rate"!  The rental price is the landlord's responsibility not the tenants.

In my opinion, this increase is not the players fault and I live in the slums at Longstreet if you would lick to check!   It's not nice to blame your mistake on the players!  :smileysad:

 

 

 

[vTenebr]

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Xena wrote:

I live in a 5 s, 1 room apartment so this doesn't affect me, however it seems all wrong to change this rent at a later date. 

If in the real word I rent a house or apartment for $x, after shopping for the best value, I don't expect the landlord to come back to me months later and say, "/Bah... you took advantage of me this house is much cheaper then the market rate"!  The rental price is the landlord's responsibility not the tenants.

In my opinion, this increase is not the players fault and I live in the slums at Longstreet if you would lick to check!   It's not nice to blame your mistake on the players!  :smileysad:

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No, we weren't blamed.  We were called cheats. You know, I could swallow this whole situation a lot better if I were at LEAST going to be reimbursed the 2.5pp(I changed a couple times to get a better look) I paid to upgrade the walls/floors/ceilings/trim..

Cause in Freeport.. I paid 20g and some silver EACH to upgrade floors, walls, ceilingsm and trim.. Yep.. MINIMUM 80gp per room.  (However, since I had made changes.. it ended up being more like 1-1.5pp per room)

Qeynos upgrades are SILVERS.

And you WONDER why we felt that the price on that room WASN'T a bug?  Hell.. we end up spending as much/more than Qeynos people to have a lovely home.  They pay it in rent.. we paid it in upgrades and living in a more difficult community.  It didn't HELP you *OWN* GMs TOLD US HOUSING WAS NOT BUGGED.

Yes, I'm angry.  Rightfully so, I think.

Message Edited by vTenebrae on 04-29-2005 08:26 PM

[Yirabeth]

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Moorgard wrote:

Since every other house of the same type in the area was a higher price, it should have been clear we'd catch it sooner or later. Of course, very few people report the beneficial bugs that exist in the game, but I digress.

 

Those who took advantage of our error have been able to enjoy reduced rent for a while now. That's fine. If they want to keep their house, they just have to pay the actual rent going forward. They can even pay the maximum amount of rent they can repay if they want, effectively keeping the cheaper price for longer. But we aren't going to put off the change just to accomodate those who were reaping a benefit they weren't intended to have.

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Wow...just....wow. I find it hard to believe that it's considered okay to be that rude to paying customers...but I should have lost my ability to be surprised by SOE by now, I guess... This 'bug' was discussed MANY times in the housing forum. Many Freeportians petitioned it. Perhaps if your ingame help could say something besides 'working as intended' or 'ask your fellow player' perhaps this wouldn't be such a hardship to those who moved into those houses...These people did not believe it to be a bug. So, maybe you have to fix it (although that's another thing I dont quite understand) but to be so rude to those doing NOTHING WRONG is just...well...wrong... And, just as an FYI, no I'm not a Freeportian, I'm one of the Qeynosians that had hoped that affordable housing would come to Qeynos someday, at the same time they fixed Freeportian upgrade costs. It is, after all, a non-gamechanging aspect of this little world, and one that could be designed to keep people playing when hunting got to be too much of a grind.  Instead it's something that is only meant for the "uber" guild or someone who either has 18 hrs a day to devote to Norrath, OR has a heavy pocketbook in RL I guess..I'm neither. Thanks for making me feel like this is my world too...when my friends leave, I'm gone. (I'm not a gamer, I followed friends here because they're my 'online family', and housing has been my joy...) ~Yira

[Sorvani]

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Moorgard wrote:

Since every other house of the same type in the area was a higher price, it should have been clear we'd catch it sooner or later. Of course, very few people report the beneficial bugs that exist in the game, but I digress.

 

Those who took advantage of our error have been able to enjoy reduced rent for a while now. That's fine. If they want to keep their house, they just have to pay the actual rent going forward. They can even pay the maximum amount of rent they can repay if they want, effectively keeping the cheaper price for longer. But we aren't going to put off the change just to accomodate those who were reaping a benefit they weren't intended to have.

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While i agree 100% with Moorgard's response to the previous posts, i would like to point out that i've had the Consolidated Housing Guide posted on these boards since Dec 31, 2004. And that price has been listed on there with it's messed up cost ever since. I know i've personally sent in a /bug about it and it was discussed in numerous threads on this board. The sheer amount of time it has taken to get this changed astounds me.

[Dastion]

Wow Moorgaard, I expect a far better PR reply than that.  I don't live in the house, and don't need anything other than my 2 Slot House Vault  to make me happy.  But the fact is that you no doubt knew about the bug quite awhile ago, and still allowed people to go ahead purchasing it and paying the cheap rent.  I never saw any notification or warning prior to the change being put on test.  And no, a little comment on the boards doesn't count as that isn't exactly public.  If you can pop up a notification asking me what I think of Sony Exchange when I log in you can pop up something to notify those players ahead of time.

 

SoE is the leaser, you told them the down payment and the weekly fee.  The least you can do, if you're going to do this, is offer to let the players petition for a refund of the initial price (after checking to be certain they have let go of hte house).  I understand changing hte price, but it's not fair for you to let the bug remain in game so long.

 

Oh, and you have a lot of nerve to speak of players not reporting "beneficial" bugs.  I've reported the bug with my Necro's house many times.  In order to change any of the textures in my 5silver a week STARTER house, it wants me to pay about 1-3g depending on what i get. Whereas in my Monk's Qeynosian starter home it costs a couple of silver to upgrade the walls/floors/ect.  Fix some of the blatantly silly and unbeneficial bugs (how about the fact that two necro's in a group/raid can't both use any of their dmg spells?) and maybe we'll be more grateful and not cling to the few perks we get.

[machput]

thing that is mostly unfair imo:

even tho they now know about the "bug" and intend to change it, u still can buy those houses in sfp and waste ur money since u wont get a refund when they increase the costs

the least that soe could do is to lock those houses from purchase since they "found out" about this "bug"

[Kokus]

Well i just spent 3 hours moving everything from my house to my bank and to my alt. I'm sitting in my empty house right now which I've spent over 160gp on the walls, floors, and ceilings inside. I'm going to keep selling there while I can, but I'm very upset about this whole situation. This was not anything new, and to have this house taken away from me in such a manner just sickens me. I could hope to somehow get a refund for what I paid for the inside of the house but apparently I've been a cheater for several months because a house that's far away from the others and a place that most people can't find had a less gold upkeep that actually made sense for its location. Well thanks for ruining some of the enjoyment I had in this game. When I told my girlfriend who helped me for hours decorating this house she was even more heartbroken than I was. I hope you enjoy punishing us cheaters with the rude post and the changes going through.

[Ibis]

you know it would be nice if price scaled based on location and traffic as well as inner space.  then these houses would ALL have lower introductory costs and as people move in and the area becomes more populace, the price goes up.  if interest dies down again the prices and rents lower, etc.  could track the traffic and buying/selling activities within each housing instance and 17 Lucie Lane might cost more to purchase and rent than 13 Lucie Lane due to having 3 more residents and 1 of them being a very good spell vendor that gets frequent traffic. then the early adopters would get a bit of a benefit, as would houses that are out of the way. you could easily get 2 acres in the middle of siberia (if it gots no oil) for a nickel, try and get the same land in japan and you'll be paying an arm and a leg.  location can mean as much as space.  those are an extreme contrast of course .

[Kwoung]

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Shunidar wrote:

I distinctly remember (Kwong?) posting about this at least once or twice on the tester forum a good while ago.  No one really to blame here but yourself.

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Actually I don't think I posted about that particular homes rent... I was on about the lack of any Inn room's at all in East Freeport, which they did address by adding one in for us.

[Efour EQ2]

oh dear,

 

I wouldnt have found out about this atall if i wasnt told by a couple fo people ingame.

 

ermm oook, well this is going to be a lot of fun moving all the items from SFP to a bank to EFP.... or another 2 room house. 

 

Why is there no period where u can own 2 houses for a while ? even just for 1 day to allow moving house.

 

 

I feel really bad knowing that have been Exploiting the game.... lol ? for so long and im lucky i have got away with it.... lol? 

 

what a bunch of horse feathers. 

 

 

[Sem]

I'm guessing they originally intended us to be able to play with friends and share houses with them and do quests together with them.  They also packed the game full of content and I imagine the individual dev teams like to hear when players take time by turning off XP to enjoy each zone delighting in the details and do most of the quests following the stories and immersing in the world.

 

That is how we were playing.

 

2 people x 35 seasons of book quests + heritage quests + town quests resulting in furnishings + one of them is a carpenter = more than 200 individual items they'd like to share in a single home together

 

2 people who play that way do not have :

(copied in from the handy pricing guide in the Housing forum a link to which IS sticked to the top of that forum)

a three room house, version 2

6, 8, and 10 Freedom Road - 3p 7g 20s 1024000 status to buy, 30g 72s 51200 status upkeep

 

or

 

a three room house, version 1 ***Housing for the unguilded or guilds who haven't unlocked this size yet.***

3 and 5 Freedom Road - 6p 14g 40s to buy, 61g 44s upkeep

 

But we did have:

 

a three room house, version 1 ***Housing for the unguilded or guilds who haven't unlocked this size yet.***

7 Freedom Road - 61g 40s to buy, 6g 14s upkeep

 

61 gold took a few weeks to save up and 6g a week means we are out there adventuring or harvesting weekly for saleables just to earn the rent (which does feel a bit more like a job) because neither of our tradeskill professions makes money at T4 (carpentry and weaponsmith)

 

Prices are simply unreasonable if you want people to be able to play the way we were playing.  The price structure as it is... for you to have a 3 room home you'd have to take hunting fairly seriously, play more hours,  and rolling on everything that drops in group whether you can use it or not just so you can sell it.  That's a way I have never played and have no interest in changing to suit this stupid, disappointing housing system.

Message Edited by Semma on 04-30-2005 10:13 AM

[Ggiirr]

this will probably get me into trouble, but... well, remind me to care later, if you would....

 

 

Moorgard, is your [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] bleeding? Cus you seem just a tad bit [Removed for Content] today. I dont have the time to play to go and get this "cheap" 3 bedroom apartment right now, but i look foward to the day when I do. Unfortunately, most of your players have real lives that include work at least 40 hours a week, and some, like me, work 9-6 6 days a week, and just dont have that much time to sacrifice to a GAME, one that we pay for ontop of that. Now, I dont put much stock into my house, only on the basis of if I did, right now, I'd freak out off of the basis of I dont have the time nor money to sink into it. Hell, I still havent even claimed my Collectors Edition furniture or dragon yet.

 

Basically, your response just saddened me, off of the basis that it showed me just HOW much you care about the people who are the reason you get the paycheck that you do/did (after that brilliant response). This kinda reminds me of the 911 operator, in a smaller city outside of Dallas, that handled a call remarkably well. A mother was calling to try and get some officers out to calm her kid down, who was freaking out and destroying stuff, when the 911 operator asked "So, what do you want us to do, come out there and shoot her?" What a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. Oh, unfortunately, he didnt get fired, but he breathes wrong again and he will be.

 

Point - Dont treat your customers like crap. Calling everyone who went "sweet, cheap rent, i can afford to make my place look nice now" is not a cheater. People who BUY plat (oh ho ho, look, Sony Exchange), those are your cheaters. People who bot through all of their tradeskill levels? Cheaters. People who exploit a bug that makes their charecter hella better than everyone elses? Cheater. Now, you might be asking, well, arent the first and last the same? Well, once my house can /assist me, then complain, until then, shut the hell up.

 

[Ashlian]

I have a Qeynosian main, and she's just run out of room in her 2 room in QH, so I'm getting another 2 room for a guild hall and library, because I have at least 10 book quests stuck in my bank that I can't do. Note I did not say I'm getting a 3 room......what POSSIBLE benefit could a 3 room have when I can spend unbelievably less for two 2 rooms and get room for 100 more furnishings.....not to mention, the Qeynos 3 rooms are, in my opinion, much much uglier than the 2 rooms. No windows downstairs, a barren courtyard with not a hint of flowers or shrubs or trees in our future (the mushroom circle was a tiny baby step in the right direction.....I have the urge to steal the flower pots out of the halfling houses in EL and RV every time I pass through....we won't talk about the hanging baskets!) and tiny little windows in the attic upstairs....I can't call it a bedroom because it's a huge cavernous gaping space with inadequate lighting.  The devs need to take a few basic architecture classes before I would ever consider getting a 3 room for the looks. The 5 rooms are gorgeous, but I'll be old and grey in rl before I approach that much plat. So would my laid back, un-power leveling, anti-money making guild. I've dropped about 5pp on my 2-room and that's nearly the sum total of my EQ earnings.

 

The cost of housing is completely unrealistic unless you leveled three or four alts to 50 in tradeskills before the nerfs and shoveled in the money....and I certainly know people who did that. They still aren't close to considering the 5 rooms, though. I haven't exactly figured out the point of having such a steep rise in cost for housing....most of the power levelers I know are still in newbie rooms, since the majority of them couldn't care less about decoration. People like me who are constantly trolling for new items appearing on the boards (what a disappointment that quested Vale bookcase was).  Every npc in Norrath has access to better furniture than I do, but I would like room to at least display what I get. All rooms should have at least twice the current limits, or you should lower the cost of housing to something approaching reasonable levels. If I got 10 people together in rl, we could indeed afford a fancy five room house. EQ should be no different. Housing has no true benefit as it is, it's fluff.....so make it enjoyable fluff.

 

What you've done to the FP people who bought that apartment is sad, and ridiculous. I read those endless posts about the cost discrepancy, I've been aware of it for at least four months.....and the devs haven't? Give me a break. I usually support the devs until you're proven totally wrong but that's close to an unforgiveable statement considering the facts. I've played EQ for six years now, one and two, but I only have time and money for one game. I would like it to be this one, it's up to you at SOE to make it worth my while to continue with that decision.

 

Ashlian Liadan

31 Fury

31 Tailor

Gilde Zonder Naam, Mistmoore

 

PS - I have a couple of FP alts, and two friends and I were going to get one of those 3 rooms, funded by my main.....guess not. Oh, and note about the extra 2 room....I don't mean my main, I'll just have an alt get it....thank you for at least making it easy to transfer money! I do appreciate the effort devs make in so many cases, but you don't get a free ride when something is truly screwed up. Just my 2cp.

Message Edited by Ashlian on 04-30-2005 01:08 PM

[bugbig]

Feel free to look at all my posts ( http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/tracker?user.id=442&page=1) and you will find I have not done one single WHINE or COMPLAINT on these boards but I gotta say...

 

WHAT IS SOE THINKING?

 

I mean the housing is deserted enough with empty 5 room houses abound.  Now you plan on pushing out a little enclave of COMMUNITY that loves to:

 

-Craft Furntiture

-Design and Decorate

-Gather and be social

 

This is not some sort of "uber" game balance that needs to be squashed.  This is a fun alternative to grinding that BUILDS community.

 

I am a relatively successful adventurer of 50 seasons and a guild leader of approximately 70 active players.  I play, hunt, and harvest... alot (but albeit I do not craft.. just not my thing and I prefer to buy from others).  I am on hours every day.  And even with that there is no way I could sustain 60g a week?  So who are you targetting with this 3 room housing?  I could see 60g a week for a 5 room to target wealthy merchants and guilds.  But come on!

 

So the thougt of dismantling my house over this is very, very dissapointing.

 

Oh and if anyone wants to see a bit of my personal history here is the 5 star post viewed 1,723 times (yes I am proud of my home) here:

 

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=housing&message.id=15578

 

 

I guess I need to throw this in the Overlord's garbage cart as it backs up to my house and move BACKWARDS to the slums or perhaps a two bedroom Inn.  From a RP perspective it really, really STINKS!

 

 -- BOTTOM LINE - PLEASE FEEL FREE TO MAKE HOUSING AFFORDABLE TO ALL SO PERHAPS MORE WILL ENJOY THIS EXTREMELY FUN CONTENT OF THE GAME --

 

Respectfully Submitted,

 

 

 

Message Edited by bugbig on 04-30-2005 04:30 PM

[wild_hei]

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Moorgard wrote:

Since every other house of the same type in the area was a higher price, it should have been clear we'd catch it sooner or later. Of course, very few people report the beneficial bugs that exist in the game, but I digress.

 

Those who took advantage of our error have been able to enjoy reduced rent for a while now. That's fine. If they want to keep their house, they just have to pay the actual rent going forward. They can even pay the maximum amount of rent they can repay if they want, effectively keeping the cheaper price for longer. But we aren't going to put off the change just to accomodate those who were reaping a benefit they weren't intended to have.

---

I think most people on this thread need to learn how to read before posting.  Please highlight where exactly Moorgard called ANYONE a cheat, a thief or any other insult?  I mean seriously, y'all need to calm down.  He very rightfully said that people were reaping a benefit that was not intended.  He said that people took advantage of the error, which is true.   He DID NOT say that everyone living in that house is a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]er who cheats their way through the game and should be punished harshly.  He DID POINT OUT how you can keep the house for a little bit longer at the reduced rate, to help make the transisiton a little smoother.If they really wanted to screw you, they would make you backpay the actual cost of "purchasing" the house and all the weeks of lower rent that you were not supposed to have. I know you think the GMs told you the price was as intended, but it has already been pointed out time and time again that when you /petition, /bug, /report etc. in-game, that the responses are 99% canned and 98% of the time don't even pertain to what was originally reported.  So using this as an argument is foolish.  Instead of getting mad at Moorgard, you should be mad at the messed up help system.For those of you who insist on comparing a GAME to RL economics, sociological standing and whatever else RL has to offer, think about this:1 - If, in RL, you rent a house on a week by week basis with no contract or written agreement, and the owner of said house decides to raise the rent 10 fold, that is well within his right.  If you do not pay that increased rent he can evict you from the premises.2 - If, in RL, you put upgrades into your home and you are then unable to pay your mortgage, because the interest rate increased thereby increasing your monthly payment because you are stupid and got a really [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ty ARM/Interest Only/ negative Armortization mortgage, you do not get any of the upgrades back.  Sure if you are lucky you may be able to incorporate the upgrades into the selling price, but in reality very few upgrades affect the overall price of a "used" house.In regards to the crybabies that complain that Qeynos has it easier than Freeport:  Are you high? Or is complaining what you do when you are done decorating your house and don't feel like actually playing the game?  Both cities have a heritage that starts within their walls.  Yes, Qeynos doesn't require an access quest to get into their "Fallen Gate", but as the game progresses they will need to do the Freeport fallen gate access quest in order to even think about getting their prismatic weapons.  Freeport has an edge because we already did the access and won't have to waist our time doing an access quest that gets us no xp.  There is no real advantage to being from one city or the other.  

Stop whining about what others have that you don’t and go out and have fun, that’s what the game is for afterall.

Grayza

Message Edited by wild_heidi on 04-30-2005 05:34 PM

[Ningirsu]

lol, not even gonna dignify that with a response, wild.oh crap...i just did.-Ningirsu

Message Edited by Ningirsu on 04-30-2005 07:09 PM

[Phlesheal]

Well first of all it's has been 6 months playing eq2, and if this a bug i think its a bunch of cr ap.  Im guessing is to make this game harder for ppl to burn there time to make money off them by keeping them at the computer. this is it for me! you ph uck'S with my Rent i quit! or u can kick me i dont care. i play  eq1 for 6 years and still play on eq1 but im sick of  the Nurf's  do what you want but other will fallow keep nurfing S***  that you set the price on. thats no bug,  and for all the Cry babbies out there in Qeynos  can  ~*** o!!

[Silversnow]

---

wild_heidi wrote:

I think most people on this thread need to learn how to read before posting.  Please highlight where exactly Moorgard called ANYONE a cheat, a thief or any other insult?  I mean seriously, y'all need to calm down.  He very rightfully said that people were reaping a benefit that was not intended.  He said that people took advantage of the error, which is true.   He DID NOT say that everyone living in that house is a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]er who cheats their way through the game and should be punished harshly.  He DID POINT OUT how you can keep the house for a little bit longer at the reduced rate, to help make the transisiton a little smoother.If they really wanted to screw you, they would make you backpay the actual cost of "purchasing" the house and all the weeks of lower rent that you were not supposed to have. I know you think the GMs told you the price was as intended, but it has already been pointed out time and time again that when you /petition, /bug, /report etc. in-game, that the responses are 99% canned and 98% of the time don't even pertain to what was originally reported.  So using this as an argument is foolish.  Instead of getting mad at Moorgard, you should be mad at the messed up help system.For those of you who insist on comparing a GAME to RL economics, sociological standing and whatever else RL has to offer, think about this:1 - If, in RL, you rent a house on a week by week basis with no contract or written agreement, and the owner of said house decides to raise the rent 10 fold, that is well within his right.  If you do not pay that increased rent he can evict you from the premises.2 - If, in RL, you put upgrades into your home and you are then unable to pay your mortgage, because the interest rate increased thereby increasing your monthly payment because you are stupid and got a really [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ty ARM/Interest Only/ negative Armortization mortgage, you do not get any of the upgrades back.  Sure if you are lucky you may be able to incorporate the upgrades into the selling price, but in reality very few upgrades affect the overall price of a "used" house.In regards to the crybabies that complain that Qeynos has it easier than Freeport:  Are you high? Or is complaining what you do when you are done decorating your house and don't feel like actually playing the game?  Both cities have a heritage that starts within their walls.  Yes, Qeynos doesn't require an access quest to get into their "Fallen Gate", but as the game progresses they will need to do the Freeport fallen gate access quest in order to even think about getting their prismatic weapons.  Freeport has an edge because we already did the access and won't have to waist our time doing an access quest that gets us no xp.  There is no real advantage to being from one city or the other.  

 

Stop whining about what others have that you don’t and go out and have fun, that’s what the game is for afterall.

 

Grayza

Message Edited by wild_heidi on 04-30-2005 05:34 PM

---

How about we back tax the qeynos people then for the room upgrades and tell them to 'suck it up' and 'it was a bug, now your free rides over' when they are brought in line with everyone in freeports cost for upgrades. That issue right there has been complained about and /bugged /feedbacked by numerous people even BEFORE this supposed wrong pricing of the house was posted. If they are going to fiddle with something on the houses this needs to be fixed at the same time. All the people who are being forced to move out and want to upgrade from plywood walls they are going to be paying bugged prices for upgrades again.And your selective real life economic references were sorta cute. In some places by law you can not raise prices of the house after the fact unless it's agreed upon by the housing athorities who either say yes or no. So its debatable as to what real life economics you can apply this too.I wish some of the dev's responsible for furnature would grow a set and give an 'or else' ultimatum to whoevers bright idea it was to change this. But i guess Owlchick and the rest of the dev responsible for quest don't need to fix any more of those bugged out quests now. Even if you want to do them you can't put the book rewards or whatever any place. Not like 12 people banding together to pay for a 3 room house can even fit their rewards in it for very long. Good going. Solved the complaints over broken furnature rewards in one stroke. Though i'm sure carpenters are absolutely thrilled that they wont be asked to make random pieces of furnature now due to people not wanting to waste their room cap space on player made things. Lets see. Quest reward you can't get again. Or player made item you can get made any time if bored. Gee. This is a hard choice to make. Idiots.

[vTenebr]

---

wild_heidi wrote:

---

Moorgard wrote:

Since every other house of the same type in the area was a higher price, it should have been clear we'd catch it sooner or later. Of course, very few people report the beneficial bugs that exist in the game, but I digress.

 

Those who took advantage of our error have been able to enjoy reduced rent for a while now. That's fine. If they want to keep their house, they just have to pay the actual rent going forward. They can even pay the maximum amount of rent they can repay if they want, effectively keeping the cheaper price for longer. But we aren't going to put off the change just to accomodate those who were reaping a benefit they weren't intended to have.

---

I think most people on this thread need to learn how to read before posting.  Please highlight where exactly Moorgard called ANYONE a cheat, a thief or any other insult?  I mean seriously, y'all need to calm down.  He very rightfully said that people were reaping a benefit that was not intended. 

Obviously, it is you who can't read as well as your postulating.  People were offended by the comment I highlighted above.  That comment infers that we knew it was a bug, never said anything about it, we were intentionally exploiting it.

He said that people took advantage of the error, which is true.  

You're only "taking advantage" if you were aware it was an error.  If informed that it's working as it's intended, how would we be "taking advantage" of something that wasn't stated to even BE an error.

I know you think the GMs told you the price was as intended, but it has already been pointed out time and time again that when you /petition, /bug, /report etc. in-game, that the responses are 99% canned and 98% of the time don't even pertain to what was originally reported.  So using this as an argument is foolish.  Instead of getting mad at Moorgard, you should be mad at the messed up help system.

Some of us have actually had one on one conversations with GMs.  If this is a CANNED response to the issue then it's in their SCRIPT that our housing was working as it should.  If it were an error, that SHOULD have been inserted into their scripts and, while they took their sweet time to correct it.. at least people could have avoided wasting their money.

1 - If, in RL, you rent a house on a week by week basis with no contract or written agreement, and the owner of said house decides to raise the rent 10 fold, that is well within his right.  If you do not pay that increased rent he can evict you from the premises.

You're stating something important and negating your own arguement with it.  We did have a "contract" of sorts.  It tells you when you click on the door "Cost and Upkeep".  We clicked on that thereby agreeing to pay the asked for cost and agreeing to pay the asked for upkeep.  If this was a *bug* it should have been noted, as I'd stated before.. not sprung on people out of nowhere.

2 - If, in RL, you put upgrades into your home and you are then unable to pay your mortgage, because the interest rate increased thereby increasing your monthly payment because you are stupid and got a really [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ty ARM/Interest Only/ negative Armortization mortgage, you do not get any of the upgrades back.  Sure if you are lucky you may be able to incorporate the upgrades into the selling price, but in reality very few upgrades affect the overall price of a "used" house.

In RL if you're making improvements and paying your mortgage as it was initially contracted, you won't lose your upgrades.  You can later sell your home to another buyer and the costs of said upgrades will increase the value of said home.  Mortgages don't get raised out of nowhere and landlords pay to upgrade a RENTAL property.  If we're owners and have to pay to upgrade, fine.  If we're renters who can have our rents raised on a whim.. then yes, we should be reimbursed for the cost of upgrades.  Real Life... Landlords pay for upgrades.  Renters do not.

We're not vacating voluntarily, we had no say in our rent being raised, and if it were up to me.. I for damned sure wouldn't have upgraded if I knew they were going to pull this stunt. In regards to the crybabies that complain that Qeynos has it easier than Freeport:  Are you high? Or is complaining what you do when you are done decorating your house and don't feel like actually playing the game?  Both cities have a heritage that starts within their walls.  Yes, Qeynos doesn't require an access quest to get into their "Fallen Gate", but as the game progresses they will need to do the Freeport fallen gate access quest in order to even think about getting their prismatic weapons.  Freeport has an edge because we already did the access and won't have to waist our time doing an access quest that gets us no xp.  There is no real advantage to being from one city or the other. 

Are YOU high?  For the Serrated Bone Dirk you have to go into Freeport but 1 time and you, yourself can sneak in and do it.  For Dusty Blue Stone/Ghoulbane, as an evil character, you can't even *GET* to the quest starter.  You have to have someone else get it FOR you.  THEN you have to make REPEATED trips into Qeynos.

As for the FG quest.  Do we play the same game? You don't need the bloody access quest to get your Prismatic.  I can BET that out of all the Qeynos people in my guild who now wield their prismatics.. not ALL have done the access (I know many haven't, in fact).  All you need to get into FG is someone ELSE with access.  When you were level 20 and waltzing into SH for your armor quests, people in FP had to do an access quest first.

MOST Qeynos people recognize there are disparities between the cities.  You're turning a blind eye to it because it'd negate your arguement.  Nektulos vs Thundering Steppes.. FG vs SH.. Commonlands vs Antonica.   There are way more agro mobs and touchier places that are death traps for FP players as they level.  Post 20 it doesn't matter, but getting to 20 is a WHOLE different damned game for a Qeynosian vs a Freeporter.  I've played *both* cities and Qeynos is like playing EQ on easy.  Anyone who says it's the same has, obviously, not played an evil character for any length of time.

There *IS* a reason that Qeynos citizens now FAR outnumber their Freeport counterparts.  Ever notice that Antonica is ALWAYS instanced.. Commonlands USED to be early on, it's not now.  You're lucky to get 50 people in there.  All the newbie zones in Freeport are deserted, in Qeynos I can still get groups easily.  I walked through ALL the newbie zones in FP today and never saw more than 6 people.  Qeynos.. there were often 20-50.

Why is that?  Oh yeah.. because everyone knows it's a hell of a lot easier to level in Qeynos so they start over there or betray to Qeynos.

Stop whining about what others have that you don’t and go out and have fun, that’s what the game is for afterall.

I do have fun, don't assume because something bothers us and we're getting shafted, yet again.. that we're not having fun.  It's not whining when you're mislead, lied to, and then have the rug pulled out from under you.  It's not whining to have a legitimate gripe about a change that you never saw coming.

I've been nerfed, play a [Removed for Content] class, and come from a city where it's pretty much a given that we're the red headed step children of SoE.. and I never griped before.   THIS is bloody ridiculous.  It's easy for YOU to get on a high horse because you're from Qeynos and have had this cakewalk for ages.  For Freeport this was the one "bone thrown" that made our city *not* totally crappy.  Now that's gone too.  Now what do we have going for us? 

Qeynos still has cheaper upgrades for their rooms.. Qeynos still has the better layouts.  Qeynos still has the big windows.  Qeynos still has the bloody STAINED GLASS in their rooms.  Qeynos had easier/better quests with better loot rewards.  Qeynos has easier zones to play in with less agro mobs.  Qeynos has dungeons you can just waltz into without any kind of access.  Qeynos has a heritage quest that evil people *CAN'T* start without someone from Qeynos' assistance.

All we had was *1* room that was cheap.. in a crappy location in the middle of nothing.   MOST Qeynos players I've spoken with found that to be the ONLY perk we have.  No one moves to Freeport because of that one room... but people flock to Qeynos for ALL the other advantages.

Look at the server populations sometime.. then come here and tell me how everything's even and we were SO advantaged by this one thing.  Then explain how if it's so even.. why we're outnumbered at LEAST 2:1 game wide, on most servers.

And for the record, my alts are all Qeynos citizens now.  I did it the hard way once, I kinda like getting to level 22 in 7 1/2 hours /played now cause yes.. it really is THAT easy in Qeynos.

---

Message Edited by vTenebrae on 04-30-2005 07:42 PM

[Taelr]

well I also own that house in south freeport, and frankly if they are going to raise it to 6 plat I want a GM to move my house to longshadow alley :smileymad:. This place is so out of the way it isn't funny. I mean if they are going to make it the same price as all the other houses the LEAST they can do is move everybody out into the middle of south freeport, and preferably to a place where there is an actual community. Currently the fastest way to get to my house is to run through the SEWERS. Then I have to pass the 4 identical houses right next to the sewer exit, climb 4 flights of stairs (including that big ol one from the first floor to the second floor), and round the corner to get to my house. I assumed it was location that was the reason for the cheapness, and if you plan to make it the same price I will most likely move back into a 2 room because frankly the only reason why I bought the 3 room was for space and slightly for cosmetics, because a 2-room is actually better then a 3-room in ALL other matters. Ultimately a 2 room has access to a lot more things (broker, bank, several stores, tradeskill area) then a 3 room, and besides space and cosmetics there is absolutely no reason to own anything above a 1-room. When a 1-room has more practical reasons then a 3-room why buy more? As a carpenter I felt it was my duty to own a good house to show other people (despite the fact that only 10% of my items I actually made since merchant bought items look better, but thats a whole nother rant) and even at 60g I am thinking of moving back to a 2 room since I have no access to a nearby broker or bank (I have to run boxes to my house several times a week and it takes about 10 mins per trip currently). To make it cost more then 60g is a joke, even if you don't factor in the fact we as freeportians spend over 20 times more for sheathing.

Message Edited by Taelren on 04-30-2005 10:48 PM

[Shelani]

I also have one of these three-room houses. I have had it for quite some time. Like others have mentioned, I’m an avid quester and my collection of books and trophies alone is more than the entire item limit on a two-room. That’s not even counting the shelves to put them in…

What really upsets me, though, is that, at level 50, I spend a lot of time in my apartment. We have a small community. We have dinner parties, regular parties, meetings… we have an art collection, a library… sometimes squatters, sometimes feuding neighbors… all sorts of things. It keeps the game interesting and fun. We, all of us, have worked very hard on our houses to make them look nice, to personalize them and make them something special. I’m not so much upset about the money put into it but the time and the community I’m going to lose when SOE takes this all away.

I’m tired of walking to my house and seeing rows and rows of empty doors in South Freeport. If SOE goes through with this change, there’s going to be just one more empty door.

Devs, why don’t you lower the housing costs? As so many have pointed out, they’re completely unreasonable, since none of us can afford them as they stand. The houses are there; why not let us use them? They take money from the economy. They support crafters. They help with player retention. (I know my house has definitely kept me interested.) Why else did you design them?

What you’re doing just makes no sense. Please let me keep my house. Give the Qeynosians houses. What good is a ghost town?

[Echar Elocin]

Well,  i am sure this wont matter much.  i own the home in sfp, on my server there are very few people who own it.  In my personal guild there are two who own it my leader and myself.  I am a carpenter, a great part of the enjoyment i get from this game comes from creating a peice of furniture and placing it in my beautifully upgraded room.  When i want to relax from all the fighting i go to my room rearrange, jump on my funiture, or just sit and look at my room.

 

I was very excited when i found a 3 bedroom that i could have the coin for.  apparently it was a bug that some used to thier advatage.  i personally was living at my means.  heh a bit off topic but its all in how u use bugs that gauges what kind of player u r.  i used the jumping bug to climb trees.

 

when i do move out of my wonderful 3 room appartment i wont be upgrading any more walls, or decorating what little space i will have in my next apartment.  I won't leave by any strech of the imagination, but a little of the fun in my EQ2 world will be gone :smileysad: 

this is my first post i am sure few will read it and the eyes of the developers who are taking my home won't either.   its just the first thing that i care about in this game thats been taken or "fixed" all other changes r usually par for the course in mmo's

[Bodaciu]

If SOE feels that this needs to be changed, then somehing must be done for those who mde a commitment to these 3 BR areas.  61g start-up+30g upgrades+6g+status lost on 2BR+10g upgrades in 2BR+6g+ status to go back to 2BR place.  Some of us have a lot to lose due to SOE's error that was not fixed over a 6 month+beta time period.

Moorguard's response if frustrating.  This problem has been stated over and over on the boards for a long time.  It has been reported, and 6 months later they get changed???

 

This is not the way to keep commited players.

[Bodaciu]

12/31/04 is the first post stating the costs I could find (not great with the boards here..lol)

 

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tips&message.id=890&query.id=60043#M890

 

So, we are saying this took 5 months to adjust, even though Moorguard stated that no one reports bugs????

Kinda %$^@ IMO.

[nod]

What gets me thru this whole things is that soe gives all the perks to Qeynos people and when a few of us on the freeport side. Lets make the game easier for the Qeynos people what they don't get enough breaks they out number us 2:1 and they pay less for the house upgrades by 7 times cheaper. They also get a qeynosian house which is huge u can fit 2 5 room houses from freeport in there so you tell me. who's getting the better end of the deal. maybe the dev can look into this instead of just taking taking away from the love of the game i spent over 15 hours for my time setting up the best possible house i could and spent alot of status points to get it the way it looks and now soe wants to say this was a bug that should have been fixed there are alot of other things the dev should be looking at with houses and after almost a year of eq2 being out there. They still haven't fixed.

 

 

Nodin