Taunt/Hate increase for Guardians requested/Chest Rewards (No more Normal Chest for 25 min fights)

Darok · 03-26-2005, 09:45 PM

I am one of the tanks for a Higher end guild on Everfrost.

Since the upgrades that were given to Mages and Melee for DPS. Guardains have been having problems. Part of the reason is the cap SOE has put on a Tank Building hate.

If a Guardian is building hate for 5 mins on a x's 4 mob. While adds are being killed or what ever. Once all focus is on the main encounter there is an issue. If a Mage nukes once over 3.5k damage they can steal aggression. If a melee type does more then 2 specials within 15 seconds they can steal agro. This is with a guardain spaming Adept 3 taunts none stop with 6 different taunts. This shows myself and other high end tanks in the game that SOE has a Major cap on aggression building for any tank. There needs to be a medium here because of the upgrades.. Otherwise your entire raid has to pace them selves down to 1 special every 30 seconds and auto attack.. This messes up Mage classes and Figther type classes. What purpose are they then? In EQ1 SOE had a lighter hate progression hate cap. We could actaully build agro in the EQ1... Were as EQ2 you can't it is caped. We have done many upon many experiments and always same result..

I started to notice this with our list of mobs we kill daily.. SOE has stealth nerfed or has not considered the Guardains taunts into the spectrum when giving all these upgrades to other classes... What is hurting us the most is our high level taunts are "TO POWERFULL FOR TARGET"...

What is even worse is SOE upgrades Cursed and other x's4 encounters and they drop the worst loot... So SOE makes a harder encounter for less reward. This is not worth a Raiding parties time. This is causing a lot of problems in Raiding guilds... I mean you spend 25 min fighti9ng a Encounter to have a normal CHEST drop... Jesus that is horrible. Give us the reward deserved. Master chest for a x's 4 Encoutner so people have something to look forward too.... Out of many high end encounters all epic x's 2 3 4... No master spells have droped recently.. Instead they drop off low level mobs or yard trash names... What type of reward system does so have? These Chest drops are Woody Allan Yuppie theory.....

So SOE please take a look at Bettering

GUARDIAN TAUNTS

CHEST REWARDS FOR Epic Encounters!!!!!!

Thesp · 03-26-2005, 10:38 PM

Is it really so bad that master chests have a chance to drop off any mob in the game? Did you consider that maybe EQ2 is not as raid-centric as eqlive?

Shortbea · 03-26-2005, 10:44 PM

I will have to agree with Daro here. I have seen him taunt to no end on these mobs and loose hate to a couple of wizards hittin ice coment more than 2 minutes apart. This is not only a problem in raid but in grind as well. Since guardians can't do the amount of DPS a sk or brawler can, or has the hate transfer a paladin does, or goes beserk like a beserker it makes it very tough and draining to keep hate.

Yes the loot is also a problem. We have been killing epic x4 mobs for a bit now. Killing at least one every night. Seems the master chest drop rate has gone down. We work very hard to get these mobs dead with nothing in reward to it. This is very frustrating when you work very hard get the people all together to get 1 t-5 rare pelt and some junk sword that no one wants because a crafter can make better.

camelspide · 03-26-2005, 10:46 PM

Did this reply really have anything to do with his post? The main complaint is that there is a big problem with aggro and that reward ≠ risk and time. Please take a look at this and fix the problem.

Anom · 03-26-2005, 11:16 PM

totaly agree with slamdar. Please do something about this stuff SOE, make this game more enjoyable to the people who put in 40+ hours a week. Thank you.

Porkchop47 · 03-27-2005, 12:03 AM

Fact is there is no risk vs reward balance so I must agree with Daro on that point. I dont play a guard so I wont comment on the hate/agro issue.

If we get up to 24 people involved for a 4x kill which can take a decent chunk of time out of each individuals day between setup/strat and the actual fight; only to be rewarded with a wood chest is simply mind boggling. This happens more often then not on raids.

IMO SoE implemented this trash loot "feature" in order to keep guilds/groups interested in doing the same raids over and over and not just moving on after the guild has whatever gear they dropped the mob for in the first place, ala eq1. But this I thought was alleviated by the loot tables, ie ANY 4x mob can drop the following.....................any 2x can drop the following..................................

But keep in mind having a master chest and a USEFUL master chest are also two different things so this fact in and of itself would keep guilds going back to the same instances/raids anyway. However when I show up for every raid my guild has while I'm awake and consistently see wooden chest drops I start to wonder why I even bother raiding at all.

What is the point of gearing up for that next great challenge, that next dragon fight or other 4x encounter when I could usually get better loot toying around in Sol w/ 3 people? I see wooden chests all the time, no reason for me (and 23 guildies) to kill a dragon for one.

Suggestion:

3x and above encounters over level 45 should drop a master chest every time. Non-instanced raid mobs with 6+ day respawn timer should drop no less then 4 pieces of master loot...every time. The number of items in that chest should be the only variable on raids, not the type of chest itself.

edidted cause i cant spell, may have missed some but oh well..

Message Edited by Porkchop4760 on 03-26-2005 02:11 PM

Kilo · 03-27-2005, 02:42 AM

Can't be too worried about guardians until I see some fixes for all the rest of the tanks so they can atleast tank remotely as well as a guardian on raids.

Shortbea · 03-27-2005, 02:43 AM

To bad guardians can't even tank on raids because they can't hold the hate.

Thesp · 03-27-2005, 03:45 AM

I can't help but find it ironic that alot of the warriors from eqlive said alot of these very same things.

A · 03-27-2005, 07:00 AM

When are you people going to realise , at least imo and from everything I have ever read about this game from all angles, that SOE does NOT want the crazy gap between hardcore raider 40+ hour a week folks and those with much less time to play to be there as it exsisted in EQ1. In eq1 a lvl 70 "insert class" that had tons of time to play and raided 6-7 nights a week in an uber guild compared to another lvl 70 of the same class that could not do those things the difference was exponential as to the quality of the character. This should imo be avoided and I think SOE is doing their best to keep it like that. you guys are already beating the top mobs in the game currently and most uber guilds have already beaten the adv pack less than 5 days from release. What more do you want? Should you get better quality stuff from the hardest mobs in the game, sure. But not at the cost of making it so we again have the have and have nots due to time restraints like in eq1.

ps. I dont think I would have any problem in the world with your requesting for better drops from raid mobs except everyone of these posts about the same issue always and I mean always have to bring up the fact that regular mobs "can" drop high quality loot. This is the big turn off for me. Hopefully if SOE listens to the whining and ups the drops you want they will at least leave the other drops from regular mobs as they are so the ones without huge amounts of time to play arent left with subpar gear forever ala eq1.

Darok · 03-27-2005, 09:07 AM

Aaz you are totaly off base, and are wrong.. Best re read SOE content. It is suited for gamers and casual gamers.. Hence all the instances.. The grip is not raiding btw so not sure why you going off on that lol

Grip is Wooden chest drops from Mobs that are Ubah hard and take 24 pepople to kill. Is it right that no one can benifit form the encounter 90% of the time because there reward system stinks.. Master chest drop would improve the total situation, Also Hate cap increase..

I am not going to go into the other part of yout post because you not even in the right thread SMILEY You just looking to up your post counts and flame...

Thesp · 03-27-2005, 09:37 AM

The answer is not guaranteed, multiple master chest drops per mob kill. Slightly higher chances of getting one? maybe. But absolutely should not be guaranteed.

I am not going to go into the other part of yout post because you not even in the right thread

If that were true, then none of us should even be replying here in the first place since this whole thread is in entirely the wrong forum!!!

Message Edited by Thespar on 03-26-200508:39 PM

Message Edited by Thespar on 03-26-2005 08:39 PM

Darok · 03-27-2005, 09:43 AM

Really the wrong forum? I thought this was test feedback? just curious.. They messed it up in test center... So wonder how it does not apply... Hmmm Got milk?

Thesp · 03-27-2005, 10:15 AM

Its the wrong forum because it has nothing to do with anything currently being tested on the test server. This is not about new encounters that are going to be added in an upcoming update, its about adding new/different/more loot to encounters that exist already on live. Therefore it should have been posted to either the Items and Equipment forum or the Combat and Encounters forum.

This has been a problem with this particular forum since its inception, people continue to post about things that are completely unrelated to things on the test server.

Ibis · 03-27-2005, 06:12 PM

I don't have a problem holding aggro. Its a team effort. If you can't hold aggro your team needs to back off. You obviously can't do any better so they should learn to do worse. No guardian or anyone else can keep aggro off of an unchecked raid force. There are changes to the way all aggro and guardian skills should function, and pretty major changes at that, but nothing that can't be circumvented for the time being. Loot needs to drop in a different way rather than just drop more frequently. No, I don't much care for Thespar's opinions either, but the loot topic has been covered. You'd be better suited adding your opinions on the subject to current threads. This IS the wrong forum for this. Requests to Guardian changes should be in the guardian forum. Requests to the way epic encounters works should be in combat and encounters. Current topics on the issues ought to already exist in both places.

Message Edited by Ibishi on 03-27-2005 08:13 AM

Blackdog183 · 03-28-2005, 10:01 AM

110% agree with OP, but the taunts need help for all tank classes, not just guardian.

A · 03-28-2005, 05:56 PM

Darokin wrote:

Aaz you are totaly off base, and are wrong.. Best re read SOE content. It is suited for gamers and casual gamers.. Hence all the instances.. The grip is not raiding btw so not sure why you going off on that lol

Grip is Wooden chest drops from Mobs that are Ubah hard and take 24 pepople to kill. Is it right that no one can benifit form the encounter 90% of the time because there reward system stinks.. Master chest drop would improve the total situation, Also Hate cap increase..

I am not going to go into the other part of yout post because you not even in the right thread You just looking to up your post counts and flame...

Well Im not going to argue with you over SOEs intent, but I am sure they said there will be content for all lvls but eq1 was their raiding game and this one was mainly targeted for a more casual audience. Anyway that wasnt the point of my post and I do believe it addressed your "grip" about the chest drops. I said I believe that SOE does not want the exponential gap in quality of gear between hardcore and casual players to exsist again as it did in eq1. Thus the reason you dont get uber loot every time you defeat one of these top end encounters. Could be wrong but thats my take on it. As to my post count, lol, Ive been a member here for about 6 months and this is now my 33rd post. Pretty positive I couldnt care less about that. And even though my main is a guardian I havent done any top end raids yet so I did not comment on your tank agro issue.

03-26-2005, 09:45 PM	#1
Darok Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5	I am one of the tanks for a Higher end guild on Everfrost. Since the upgrades that were given to Mages and Melee for DPS. Guardains have been having problems. Part of the reason is the cap SOE has put on a Tank Building hate. If a Guardian is building hate for 5 mins on a x's 4 mob. While adds are being killed or what ever. Once all focus is on the main encounter there is an issue. If a Mage nukes once over 3.5k damage they can steal aggression. If a melee type does more then 2 specials within 15 seconds they can steal agro. This is with a guardain spaming Adept 3 taunts none stop with 6 different taunts. This shows myself and other high end tanks in the game that SOE has a Major cap on aggression building for any tank. There needs to be a medium here because of the upgrades.. Otherwise your entire raid has to pace them selves down to 1 special every 30 seconds and auto attack.. This messes up Mage classes and Figther type classes. What purpose are they then? In EQ1 SOE had a lighter hate progression hate cap. We could actaully build agro in the EQ1... Were as EQ2 you can't it is caped. We have done many upon many experiments and always same result.. I started to notice this with our list of mobs we kill daily.. SOE has stealth nerfed or has not considered the Guardains taunts into the spectrum when giving all these upgrades to other classes... What is hurting us the most is our high level taunts are "TO POWERFULL FOR TARGET"... What is even worse is SOE upgrades Cursed and other x's4 encounters and they drop the worst loot... So SOE makes a harder encounter for less reward. This is not worth a Raiding parties time. This is causing a lot of problems in Raiding guilds... I mean you spend 25 min fighti9ng a Encounter to have a normal CHEST drop... Jesus that is horrible. Give us the reward deserved. Master chest for a x's 4 Encoutner so people have something to look forward too.... Out of many high end encounters all epic x's 2 3 4... No master spells have droped recently.. Instead they drop off low level mobs or yard trash names... What type of reward system does so have? These Chest drops are Woody Allan Yuppie theory..... So SOE please take a look at Bettering GUARDIAN TAUNTS CHEST REWARDS FOR Epic Encounters!!!!!! __________________ Darokin Windreach 50 Dwarf, Guardian Zorran Zantius 30 High Elf, Templar

03-26-2005, 10:44 PM	#3
Shortbea Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 8	I will have to agree with Daro here. I have seen him taunt to no end on these mobs and loose hate to a couple of wizards hittin ice coment more than 2 minutes apart. This is not only a problem in raid but in grind as well. Since guardians can't do the amount of DPS a sk or brawler can, or has the hate transfer a paladin does, or goes beserk like a beserker it makes it very tough and draining to keep hate. Yes the loot is also a problem. We have been killing epic x4 mobs for a bit now. Killing at least one every night. Seems the master chest drop rate has gone down. We work very hard to get these mobs dead with nothing in reward to it. This is very frustrating when you work very hard get the people all together to get 1 t-5 rare pelt and some junk sword that no one wants because a crafter can make better. __________________ Slamdar-50 Warden-Core-Everfrost Swaggering-35Alchemist-Everfrost

03-27-2005, 02:43 AM	#8
Shortbea Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 8	To bad guardians can't even tank on raids because they can't hold the hate. __________________ Slamdar-50 Warden-Core-Everfrost Swaggering-35Alchemist-Everfrost

03-27-2005, 09:07 AM	#11
Darok Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5	Aaz you are totaly off base, and are wrong.. Best re read SOE content. It is suited for gamers and casual gamers.. Hence all the instances.. The grip is not raiding btw so not sure why you going off on that lol Grip is Wooden chest drops from Mobs that are Ubah hard and take 24 pepople to kill. Is it right that no one can benifit form the encounter 90% of the time because there reward system stinks.. Master chest drop would improve the total situation, Also Hate cap increase.. I am not going to go into the other part of yout post because you not even in the right thread You just looking to up your post counts and flame... __________________ Darokin Windreach 50 Dwarf, Guardian Zorran Zantius 30 High Elf, Templar

03-27-2005, 09:37 AM	#12
Thesp Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 157	The answer is not guaranteed, multiple master chest drops per mob kill. Slightly higher chances of getting one? maybe. But absolutely should not be guaranteed. I am not going to go into the other part of yout post because you not even in the right thread If that were true, then none of us should even be replying here in the first place since this whole thread is in entirely the wrong forum!!! Message Edited by Thespar on 03-26-200508:39 PM Message Edited by Thespar on 03-26-2005 08:39 PM

03-26-2005, 10:38 PM	#2
Thesp Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 157	Is it really so bad that master chests have a chance to drop off any mob in the game? Did you consider that maybe EQ2 is not as raid-centric as eqlive?

03-26-2005, 10:46 PM	#4
camelspide Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1	Did this reply really have anything to do with his post? The main complaint is that there is a big problem with aggro and that reward ≠ risk and time. Please take a look at this and fix the problem.

03-26-2005, 11:16 PM	#5
Anom Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 15	totaly agree with slamdar. Please do something about this stuff SOE, make this game more enjoyable to the people who put in 40+ hours a week. Thank you.

03-27-2005, 12:03 AM	#6
Porkchop47 General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 8	Fact is there is no risk vs reward balance so I must agree with Daro on that point. I dont play a guard so I wont comment on the hate/agro issue. If we get up to 24 people involved for a 4x kill which can take a decent chunk of time out of each individuals day between setup/strat and the actual fight; only to be rewarded with a wood chest is simply mind boggling. This happens more often then not on raids. IMO SoE implemented this trash loot "feature" in order to keep guilds/groups interested in doing the same raids over and over and not just moving on after the guild has whatever gear they dropped the mob for in the first place, ala eq1. But this I thought was alleviated by the loot tables, ie ANY 4x mob can drop the following.....................any 2x can drop the following.................................. But keep in mind having a master chest and a USEFUL master chest are also two different things so this fact in and of itself would keep guilds going back to the same instances/raids anyway. However when I show up for every raid my guild has while I'm awake and consistently see wooden chest drops I start to wonder why I even bother raiding at all. What is the point of gearing up for that next great challenge, that next dragon fight or other 4x encounter when I could usually get better loot toying around in Sol w/ 3 people? I see wooden chests all the time, no reason for me (and 23 guildies) to kill a dragon for one. Suggestion: 3x and above encounters over level 45 should drop a master chest every time. Non-instanced raid mobs with 6+ day respawn timer should drop no less then 4 pieces of master loot...every time. The number of items in that chest should be the only variable on raids, not the type of chest itself. edidted cause i cant spell, may have missed some but oh well.. Message Edited by Porkchop4760 on 03-26-2005 02:11 PM

03-27-2005, 02:42 AM	#7
Kilo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 113	Can't be too worried about guardians until I see some fixes for all the rest of the tanks so they can atleast tank remotely as well as a guardian on raids.

03-27-2005, 03:45 AM	#9
Thesp Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 157	I can't help but find it ironic that alot of the warriors from eqlive said alot of these very same things.

03-27-2005, 07:00 AM	#10
A General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 21	When are you people going to realise , at least imo and from everything I have ever read about this game from all angles, that SOE does NOT want the crazy gap between hardcore raider 40+ hour a week folks and those with much less time to play to be there as it exsisted in EQ1. In eq1 a lvl 70 "insert class" that had tons of time to play and raided 6-7 nights a week in an uber guild compared to another lvl 70 of the same class that could not do those things the difference was exponential as to the quality of the character. This should imo be avoided and I think SOE is doing their best to keep it like that. you guys are already beating the top mobs in the game currently and most uber guilds have already beaten the adv pack less than 5 days from release. What more do you want? Should you get better quality stuff from the hardest mobs in the game, sure. But not at the cost of making it so we again have the have and have nots due to time restraints like in eq1. ps. I dont think I would have any problem in the world with your requesting for better drops from raid mobs except everyone of these posts about the same issue always and I mean always have to bring up the fact that regular mobs "can" drop high quality loot. This is the big turn off for me. Hopefully if SOE listens to the whining and ups the drops you want they will at least leave the other drops from regular mobs as they are so the ones without huge amounts of time to play arent left with subpar gear forever ala eq1.

03-27-2005, 09:43 AM	#13
Darok Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5	Really the wrong forum? I thought this was test feedback? just curious.. They messed it up in test center... So wonder how it does not apply... Hmmm Got milk? __________________ Darokin Windreach 50 Dwarf, Guardian Zorran Zantius 30 High Elf, Templar

03-27-2005, 10:15 AM	#14
Thesp Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 157	Its the wrong forum because it has nothing to do with anything currently being tested on the test server. This is not about new encounters that are going to be added in an upcoming update, its about adding new/different/more loot to encounters that exist already on live. Therefore it should have been posted to either the Items and Equipment forum or the Combat and Encounters forum. This has been a problem with this particular forum since its inception, people continue to post about things that are completely unrelated to things on the test server.

03-27-2005, 06:12 PM	#15
Ibis General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 155	I don't have a problem holding aggro. Its a team effort. If you can't hold aggro your team needs to back off. You obviously can't do any better so they should learn to do worse. No guardian or anyone else can keep aggro off of an unchecked raid force. There are changes to the way all aggro and guardian skills should function, and pretty major changes at that, but nothing that can't be circumvented for the time being. Loot needs to drop in a different way rather than just drop more frequently. No, I don't much care for Thespar's opinions either, but the loot topic has been covered. You'd be better suited adding your opinions on the subject to current threads. This IS the wrong forum for this. Requests to Guardian changes should be in the guardian forum. Requests to the way epic encounters works should be in combat and encounters. Current topics on the issues ought to already exist in both places. Message Edited by Ibishi on 03-27-2005 08:13 AM

03-28-2005, 10:01 AM	#16
Blackdog183 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 267	110% agree with OP, but the taunts need help for all tank classes, not just guardian. __________________ Iceband Fatebringer Leader-Shadows of Freeport 51SK/59 alchey

03-28-2005, 05:56 PM	#17
A General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 21	Darokin wrote: Aaz you are totaly off base, and are wrong.. Best re read SOE content. It is suited for gamers and casual gamers.. Hence all the instances.. The grip is not raiding btw so not sure why you going off on that lol Grip is Wooden chest drops from Mobs that are Ubah hard and take 24 pepople to kill. Is it right that no one can benifit form the encounter 90% of the time because there reward system stinks.. Master chest drop would improve the total situation, Also Hate cap increase.. I am not going to go into the other part of yout post because you not even in the right thread You just looking to up your post counts and flame... Well Im not going to argue with you over SOEs intent, but I am sure they said there will be content for all lvls but eq1 was their raiding game and this one was mainly targeted for a more casual audience. Anyway that wasnt the point of my post and I do believe it addressed your "grip" about the chest drops. I said I believe that SOE does not want the exponential gap in quality of gear between hardcore and casual players to exsist again as it did in eq1. Thus the reason you dont get uber loot every time you defeat one of these top end encounters. Could be wrong but thats my take on it. As to my post count, lol, Ive been a member here for about 6 months and this is now my 33rd post. Pretty positive I couldnt care less about that. And even though my main is a guardian I havent done any top end raids yet so I did not comment on your tank agro issue.