It is time to do away with shards and find a new way - Page 2

Savara · 03-04-2005, 02:14 AM

The shard system is much better than the old days of the corpse run from bind point. Wipes took a ridiculous amount of time to recover from on raids and led to alot of lost sleep and frustration. I don't ever want to go back to that nonsense. I don't think that is the problem, as someone else had mentioned. Its the idiots leaving before shard recovery is finished. It happened to me the other night. The cleric left immediately after the group wiped no tell or anything, found another group and when I sent him a tell asking to please come back and rez me, he said sorry mate I'm in a group in permafrost and I'm not leaving. The thing that really [Removed for Content] me off about this idiot is we spent about 4-5 hours helping him along with a quest "Menagerie" in Everfrost and he doesn't think its worth an extra 30 min or so to come back and rez us. I was fortunate a gm helped me with the shard recovery a couple days after. If I left a corpse and was naked it wouldn['t have made things any easier.

I think a better idea would be to make shard recovery automatic after 24 hours offline. That way if you are casual player it really doesn't cause that much of a problem and at the same time there still is a penalty. That would also save the gms from having to get involved when shards are left in areas making it impossible to recover them by yourself.

sidgb · 03-04-2005, 02:16 AM

FeeRsuM wrote:
that didnt actually make any sense to me and i have an iq of 146

congratulations

Whoop-ti-doo. I am sure your mother is proud.

BlueKnightLPL · 03-04-2005, 02:26 AM

Actually I think the shard recovery (without loss of equipment/items) adds some good challenge and adventure to the game. I have had some VERY challenging situations working out a way to get back to my shard and recover it without losing another. It also causes me to consider my "exit strategy" when going into a difficult situation.

When I was doing the Nek castle access quest (ALONE as a dwarf cleric by the way - no invis or evac) it not only was challenging to get in to the castle area and the wards but i had to constantly consided where I would run and leave my shard if I aggroed (everything was too much for me to solo) and died on the way out. There is NO safe run and only a single exit path. Was very exciting and had the adrenaline pumping for an hour or so. I did lose my shard once because I agroed on the south ward and ran - lost them but picked up agro on the exit road - lost them but picked up agro by the tree things near the bridge and by that time knew that last 1% of health was going fast so had to make sure I was in the best place for a recovery.

No XP during that time, no battles, no quests completed - but had a GREAT time and quite a sense of accomplishment.

When grouping as a healer: job 1 is keep the tank alive, 2 is when tank goes down find a way to keep everyone else alive - so I'm usually the last one out. Saving lives/shards and managing the location of deaths/shards so recovery can be accomplished is all part of the job.

I NEVER leave a group with shards outstanding, unless it's from someone who ran off by themselves into a place WAY over our heads and got killed. I'll still usually make an attempt, even by myself to get to them for a res - but only once did i abandon someone's shard, and it was after an hour of attempts and they just had to log off.

If anyone abandoned a group mate's shard without permission i would put them on my "never to group with again" list immediately.

BlueKnightLPL · 03-04-2005, 02:26 AM

double post

Message Edited by BlueKnightLPL on 03-03-2005 01:27 PM

AlA · 03-04-2005, 02:42 AM

I am surprised that a GM would do this for you. I would have expected that they would have said you will have to find help.

What an awesome generous and kind thing that GM did! Yay!

/t SOE "You have just gained a LOT of Alaro faction points!"

Rageagainstthem wrote:

The shard system is much better than the old days of the corpse run from bind point. Wipes took a ridiculous amount of time to recover from on raids and led to alot of lost sleep and frustration. I don't ever want to go back to that nonsense. I don't think that is the problem, as someone else had mentioned. Its the idiots leaving before shard recovery is finished. It happened to me the other night. The cleric left immediately after the group wiped no tell or anything, found another group and when I sent him a tell asking to please come back and rez me, he said sorry mate I'm in a group in permafrost and I'm not leaving. The thing that really [Removed for Content] me off about this idiot is we spent about 4-5 hours helping him along with a quest "Menagerie" in Everfrost and he doesn't think its worth an extra 30 min or so to come back and rez us. I was fortunate a gm helped me with the shard recovery a couple days after. If I left a corpse and was naked it wouldn['t have made things any easier.

I think a better idea would be to make shard recovery automatic after 24 hours offline. That way if you are casual player it really doesn't cause that much of a problem and at the same time there still is a penalty. That would also save the gms from having to get involved when shards are left in areas making it impossible to recover them by yourself.

Naggyba · 03-04-2005, 02:43 AM

There is a very simply solution.When you die, offer more than just the revive option.Revive with no shard in the world plus 1% extra debt (or whatever they want to make it, just not too crazy).Revive with shard in the worldReviving with shard and more debt, will still give a penalty but, for those times when it would be a nightmare, or take a LONG time to recover, the person could choose more debt over having to recover the shard.Reviving with shard in the world would be just like it is now.When Vox is sitting on your shard because of a mob up top above her, punts you down onto her, reviving with a little more debt would be a better choice than leaving the shard for several days, because there is simply no way you can recover it without dying more times.

Samnas · 03-04-2005, 03:25 AM

FeeRsuM wrote:
that didnt actually make any sense to me and i have an iq of 146

congratulations

Does it really make you feel superior to state your IQ? Even if we could believe you why would we care? I think most of us have no idea what our IQ is because we do not feel the need to take the test for the sole reason of demonstrating how much better we are than someone else. Anyway on to the topic at hand I would explain it thoroughly for you, but I do not think my IQ is high enough to state it in a way someone of your greatness could comprehend. I do think it had something to do with the fact that you said in a previous post you bailed on people.... then stated that nobody hears you whining. The poster might have been referencing that since you are the one who bails you dont really have much to whine about.

Samnas · 03-04-2005, 03:28 AM

FeeRsuM wrote:

this is a difficult concept to grasp i realise, but, the world does not revolve around you. chances are if you died so did the rest of the group, so wait for a res, unless you are hunting without a healer (in which case you should have stayed where you werent likely to be over run)

the number of aggro happy tanks i have grouped with is unbelieveable, they pull and pull without even checking if the group is ready, in that situation if the tank gets himself or other party members killed for their gung ho attitude and decides to respawn instead of wait for a res from me, no way am i helping them get their shard back. if i get a penalty for someone elses potential stupidity, thats just another incentive not to group with anyone i dont know

Personally in my groups I prefer the tank to pull as fast as he can unless someone says stop. Not stupid; just makes game enjoyable and we dont have to wait 15 seconds between fights for everyone to say 'rdy'. If someone needs a break they say so and the tank waits... otherwise he pulls.

AlA · 03-04-2005, 08:47 AM

I like the ideas. I'm not clear on what you mean by ...

#1 Revive with no shard in the world plus 1% extra debt (or whatever they want to make it, just not too crazy).

What would you get in return for the extra percent of debt? If you revive with no shard to recover, how is that different than #3?

#2. Revive with shard in the world.

Hmm? A bit confusing. Sounds like what we are doing now. Looks like a type-O.

#3 I like, but would be better understood to mean reviving with more debt but you auto-absorb your shard upon revival.

Naggybait wrote:
There is a very simply solution.

When you die, offer more than just the revive option.

Revive with no shard in the world plus 1% extra debt (or whatever they want to make it, just not too crazy).
Revive with shard in the world

Reviving with shard and more debt, will still give a penalty but, for those times when it would be a nightmare, or take a LONG time to recover, the person could choose more debt over having to recover the shard.

Reviving with shard in the world would be just like it is now.

When Vox is sitting on your shard because of a mob up top above her, punts you down onto her, reviving with a little more debt would be a better choice than leaving the shard for several days, because there is simply no way you can recover it without dying more times.

AlA · 03-04-2005, 09:06 AM

Having a High IQ alone, means very little. IQ is having the ability to call up facts, and analyze things.

Wisdom is the ability to use that info.

If someone can recognize the solution because they have a high IQ but they can't put into practice the solution because temper prevents them from caring what you do, than what good is it?

I've met a few folks with a high IQ. They tended to be cruel, even sadistic, given to fits of rage, selfish and always thought themselves the greatest stuff since sliced bread.

I am given to a quick temper, but I thank God, I'm not given to the other things.

Tell You what. I'll gladly trade you 30 points of IQ for 15 points of wisdom, patience, common sense and serenity.

Conclusion: Do NOT think that someone is superior to you just because they have a higher IQ. Fact is, I find most other folks far superior to me in many ways! I am 49 years old, and I've met fifteen year olds who have more maturity in their pinkey than I and some of the nutcases with high IQ's I've met combined.

Samnas wrote:

FeeRsuM wrote:
that didnt actually make any sense to me and i have an iq of 146

congratulations

Does it really make you feel superior to state your IQ? Even if we could believe you why would we care? I think most of us have no idea what our IQ is because we do not feel the need to take the test for the sole reason of demonstrating how much better we are than someone else. Anyway on to the topic at hand I would explain it thoroughly for you, but I do not think my IQ is high enough to state it in a way someone of your greatness could comprehend. I do think it had something to do with the fact that you said in a previous post you bailed on people.... then stated that nobody hears you whining. The poster might have been referencing that since you are the one who bails you dont really have much to whine about.

Message Edited by AlAro on 03-04-2005 04:03 PM

Ydiss · 03-04-2005, 03:41 PM

Thespar wrote:

Ydiss wrote:

Thespar wrote:

If people are going to disband while there are shards still out there, they're probably A-hole enough to disband with corpses still out there. Personally, I never disband a group when another player has a shard, IMO its the same as having a corpse out there, you just dont do it. What you're seeing is just a symptom of the problem which is that people have a general lack of respect for fellow players now.

Or, they have a life that they cannot abandon for a game...

People only use that as a lame excuse as to why they can't stay. "oh my wife says I have to get off this instant now that there are shards out there, she let me play for 12 consecutive hrs but now I can't stay for another 10 min to help you out." *cough*BS*cough*

Nice exageration.

FeeRs · 03-04-2005, 03:52 PM

i dont bail on people

as the late great bill hicks said, you arent a person till your in my phone book SMILEY

all joking aside, i will ALWAYS go back and help someone get their shard and will always if i have time help someone a lot lower level to me get their shard back if they ask, for example i was running through vermins snye at level 31 (i forget why, maybe coming from cob i dunno) i am nosy and saw a guy stood around i examined him, noticed his stats were knacked. i asked if he needed help getting his shard back (he was level 12ish if i remember correctly) turns out his shard was in blackburrow. np i said i ran all the way there grouped with him so he could get his shard back then all the way back to antonica to with him to make sure he made it back.

i dont bail on people. however if someone does something stupid and gets themselves killed i will not put that much effort in to make their life any easier. if some idiot attacks a mob too powerful for group and gets everyone wiped out. why should i hassle myself helping the idiot get his shard back? if it was an accident fair enough i'll help as best i can. but with what you are suggesting i would suffer a penalty in EITHER case, which is unfair.

i willa dmit tho there are some idiots that will leave group as soon as one member dies. there is a difference between that behaviour and the behaviour i am a practitioner of. you say i should suffer for someone elses mistake, i say justify that argument.

Tradeskill_Addict · 03-04-2005, 04:26 PM

FeeRsuM wrote:
that didnt actually make any sense to me and i have an iq of 146

I thought in the www everyone has an IQ of 140+?

and 18 inches of course :smileyvery-happy:

FeeRs · 03-04-2005, 04:28 PM

12 inches

lets not get greedy SMILEY

Tradeskill_Addict · 03-04-2005, 05:04 PM

I forgot that inches are different to the centimeters we use in europe :smileysurprised:

....18 inches...must sound like I am talking about the horse nerf....

Suraklin · 03-04-2005, 07:50 PM

EQOA just gives debt when you die. When you killed something after dying half your xp went to debt other half went towards leveling. I'd prefer the EQOA debt system myelf. Shard runs suck. Rather just take an xp hit and make up the debt than have to run back and try to get my shard without dying on the recovery attempt. If ya die between level 1-35 you get a 5% xp debt. Die level 36-50 you take a 10% debt hit.

AlA · 03-04-2005, 10:16 PM

Sometimes you really have no choice. Last night I had to bail on the groups shard including my own thus giving up almost all hope of ever being able to retrieve it. The very worst thing that I dread in this game, the very thing that had I known was to be the punishment for dying in a place were I cannot get my shard or even find it if I could, I would not have bought the game has come to pass.

People have to work, people have all kinds of things. I stayed up till 3am trying to help but it was no use. I would have pulled an all nighter, but what use was it when I'm everyone else has gone and I'm the last and the dungeon is abandoned as an old car dumped over a cliff? I always try to contact them the next day to try to help get the shard back, but there has got to be a better way, other than spending all night playing musical shards. If shard loss didn't result in me having jawdroppingly low mana reserve no matter what I drink, if shard loss just meant this whopping huge truckload of debt instead of debt and nasty stat reduction it would not be so bad but THIS if anything, can is what might make me quit the game. Don't misunderstand, I'm not thinking of quitting or threatening to, but if I could point to two things that cause me more distress and pain and that actually take away from my enjoyment of the game and instead gnaws at my gut and guarantees me being sick as a dog and exhausted the next day, its having to leave a groups or my own shard behind and giving up all hope of finding it again. I simply do not know RE enough, and I could run around forever if I didn't get aggro and never ever find the shard with the whacko shard WP that vanishes, flips around like a wild snake only to point right back where I just came from with every other step!

FeeRsuM wrote:

i dont bail on people

as the late great bill hicks said, you arent a person till your in my phone book

all joking aside, i will ALWAYS go back and help someone get their shard and will always if i have time help someone a lot lower level to me get their shard back if they ask, for example i was running through vermins snye at level 31 (i forget why, maybe coming from cob i dunno) i am nosy and saw a guy stood around i examined him, noticed his stats were knacked. i asked if he needed help getting his shard back (he was level 12ish if i remember correctly) turns out his shard was in blackburrow. np i said i ran all the way there grouped with him so he could get his shard back then all the way back to antonica to with him to make sure he made it back.

i dont bail on people. however if someone does something stupid and gets themselves killed i will not put that much effort in to make their life any easier. if some idiot attacks a mob too powerful for group and gets everyone wiped out. why should i hassle myself helping the idiot get his shard back? if it was an accident fair enough i'll help as best i can. but with what you are suggesting i would suffer a penalty in EITHER case, which is unfair.

i willa dmit tho there are some idiots that will leave group as soon as one member dies. there is a difference between that behaviour and the behaviour i am a practitioner of. you say i should suffer for someone elses mistake, i say justify that argument.

SilentSam · 03-04-2005, 10:33 PM

Thespar wrote:

Ydiss wrote:

Thespar wrote:

If people are going to disband while there are shards still out there, they're probably A-hole enough to disband with corpses still out there. Personally, I never disband a group when another player has a shard, IMO its the same as having a corpse out there, you just dont do it. What you're seeing is just a symptom of the problem which is that people have a general lack of respect for fellow players now.

Or, they have a life that they cannot abandon for a game...

People only use that as a lame excuse as to why they can't stay. "oh my wife says I have to get off this instant now that there are shards out there, she let me play for 12 consecutive hrs but now I can't stay for another 10 min to help you out." *cough*BS*cough*

Ok...wow. There are differences in why someone might have to leave a group before doing a shard run. Two types come to my mind:

Type 1 - The other player just drops out without saying anything and heads off cussing under their breath. They go join another group or just ignore everyone from your shard group. Either way, you guys are right and this guys a jerk...or it could also be that the shard group was just that bad that they thought they would be better off without you. Either way, I agree that it is a lame thing to do.

Type 2 - There are those that might actually have a real reason for leaving before spending another hour or two to get a shard. I DO have a pregnant wife, a kid, I run my own business, and teach as well. So sometimes if i am playing for only a bit longer but suddenly we get wiped...well sorry guys, this is a game and I actually have other stuff to do, like take care of my family. If your response is "Go play some other game then...cause you gotta be ready to play EQ for uber long times with Leet dudes like me"....well then yer a punk kid who knows no better. I play this game to have fun and to escape the real-world chaos I deal with every day. I don't play in Norrath to appease your needs. If I leave I politely apologize and head out. Sorry that some people have lives.

On a side note:

Naggybait: I like the idea that you put forward. Sounds like a good simple solution for getting your shard back without being too harsh.

AlAro: I fail to see what you didn't understand in Naggybaits ideas...they're laid out quite simply and understandably. I thought you were just bragging about your IQ? :smileytongue:

I digress...

Message Edited by SilentSam on 03-04-2005 11:36 AM

sidgb · 03-04-2005, 11:04 PM

SilentSam wrote:

Type 2 - There are those that might actually have a real reason for leaving before spending another hour or two to get a shard. I DO have a pregnant wife, a kid, I run my own business, and teach as well. So sometimes if i am playing for only a bit longer but suddenly we get wiped...well sorry guys, this is a game and I actually have other stuff to do, like take care of my family. If your response is "Go play some other game then...cause you gotta be ready to play EQ for uber long times with Leet dudes like me"....well then yer a punk kid who knows no better. I play this game to have fun and to escape the real-world chaos I deal with every day. I don't play in Norrath to appease your needs. If I leave I politely apologize and head out. Sorry that some people have lives.

It went like this:

*crickets*

player x leaves group

player y leaves group

*crickets*

Naggyba · 03-04-2005, 11:32 PM

AlAro wrote:
I like the ideas. I'm not clear on what you mean by ...
#1 Revive with no shard in the world plus 1% extra debt (or whatever they want to make it, just not too crazy).
What would you get in return for the extra percent of debt? If you revive with no shard to recover, how is that different than #3?
#2. Revive with shard in the world.
Hmm? A bit confusing. Sounds like what we are doing now. Looks like a type-O.
#3 I like, but would be better understood to mean reviving with more debt but you auto-absorb your shard upon revival.
Naggybait wrote:There is a very simply solution.When you die, offer more than just the revive option.Revive with no shard in the world plus 1% extra debt (or whatever they want to make it, just not too crazy).Revive with shard in the worldReviving with shard and more debt, will still give a penalty but, for those times when it would be a nightmare, or take a LONG time to recover, the person could choose more debt over having to recover the shard.Reviving with shard in the world would be just like it is now.When Vox is sitting on your shard because of a mob up top above her, punts you down onto her, reviving with a little more debt would be a better choice than leaving the shard for several days, because there is simply no way you can recover it without dying more times.

There were only 2 options in that post. I guess I should have numbered them. Below that was just explaining what I was talking about.1. Revive with no shard in the world plus 1% extra debt (or whatever they want to make it, just not too crazy).2. Revive with shard in the worldFirst option would allow you to revive without leaving a shard, it would just add more debt instead, for those times when shard recover is just impossible or inconvenient. I would rather have a little more debt, than run around with a missing shard (and my stats being lowered). It would be great for those times when recovery could take a long time or impossible.Second option would be like it is now, where you go get your shard.

WuphonsReach · 03-04-2005, 11:52 PM

Lost shards are not a big deal (do a betrayal quest and you'll end up with 1 lost shard right at the start). At one point during the betrayal, I had *2* unrecoverable shards and it really didn't slow me down much. Let's take my level 8 trader and jump him off the 'ship prow' in SFP... initial stats, stats after death, stats after 2nd death.HP 152 (136) (120)Power 178 (157) (13 SMILEY

STR 14 (13) (11)AGI 33 (30) (26)STA 17 (15) (14)INT 37 (33) (30)WIS 21 (19) (17)For 2 minutes, you suffer from Revived Sickness which gives you lower stats. Along with 12% debt from not recovering the shard. Then you recover a bit and you'll see STR go from 14 to 13, AGI go from 33 to 30 (roughly a 10% drop in stats).So it's worth it to get a shard back, but not an absolute killer requirement that you do get the shard back. And after 72 hours, that shard gets reabsorbed anyway. (There are dozens of other things you can do such as playing an alt, crafting, running quests, harvesting, watching a movie, reading a book, playing with the kids... nobody says you have to be level 30 by the weekend. That's a personal issue.)All that being said... things I would like to see added:- The ability of group members to drag shards. Sometimes shards end up in bad situations where it's simply not a rezzable location. Especially underwater or when a corpse gets stuck in a non-targetable place.- Allow priests and mages to summon shards of group members using a spell and a reagent. Make it 1sp for t1, 4sp for t2, 16sp for t3, 64sp for t4, and 2.56gp for t5 players.- Perhaps reduce the amount of stat loss to only 5% per shard instead of 10% per shard.

Wiou · 03-05-2005, 05:13 AM

Strongly disagree.Obviously people get very discouraged when they lose a shard..Who wants to be PENALIZED for taking a break?You lose debt and shards over time while camped out.

AlA · 03-05-2005, 05:22 AM

SilentSam wrote:

AlAro: I fail to see what you didn't understand in Naggybaits ideas...they're laid out quite simply and understandably. I thought you were just bragging about your IQ? :smileytongue:

LOL!! Touche!

Message Edited by AlAro on 03-04-2005 04:31 PM

AlA · 03-05-2005, 05:30 AM

Hard to tell who you are disagreeing with. I hear a lot of folks saying that they were well nigh useless until three days passed. If you are disagreeing with me, than what you are saying is that not being able to recover your shard does not mean as horrible a stat loss as such folks would have me and others believe. If so, that is good. Either way, since I have the memory of a block of cheese, I'm unable to guess which post you might be replying to.

Wiou wrote:
Strongly disagree.

Obviously people get very discouraged when they lose a shard..

Who wants to be PENALIZED for taking a break?

You lose debt and shards over time while camped out.

03-04-2005, 02:16 AM	#32
sidgb Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 144	FeeRsuM wrote: that didnt actually make any sense to me and i have an iq of 146 congratulations Whoop-ti-doo. I am sure your mother is proud. __________________ GYnasis - 76 Guardian Cataclysm - 74 Templar Cylleste - 74 Monk -Permafrost-

03-04-2005, 02:26 AM	#33
BlueKnightLPL Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 46	Actually I think the shard recovery (without loss of equipment/items) adds some good challenge and adventure to the game. I have had some VERY challenging situations working out a way to get back to my shard and recover it without losing another. It also causes me to consider my "exit strategy" when going into a difficult situation. When I was doing the Nek castle access quest (ALONE as a dwarf cleric by the way - no invis or evac) it not only was challenging to get in to the castle area and the wards but i had to constantly consided where I would run and leave my shard if I aggroed (everything was too much for me to solo) and died on the way out. There is NO safe run and only a single exit path. Was very exciting and had the adrenaline pumping for an hour or so. I did lose my shard once because I agroed on the south ward and ran - lost them but picked up agro on the exit road - lost them but picked up agro by the tree things near the bridge and by that time knew that last 1% of health was going fast so had to make sure I was in the best place for a recovery. No XP during that time, no battles, no quests completed - but had a GREAT time and quite a sense of accomplishment. When grouping as a healer: job 1 is keep the tank alive, 2 is when tank goes down find a way to keep everyone else alive - so I'm usually the last one out. Saving lives/shards and managing the location of deaths/shards so recovery can be accomplished is all part of the job. I NEVER leave a group with shards outstanding, unless it's from someone who ran off by themselves into a place WAY over our heads and got killed. I'll still usually make an attempt, even by myself to get to them for a res - but only once did i abandon someone's shard, and it was after an hour of attempts and they just had to log off. If anyone abandoned a group mate's shard without permission i would put them on my "never to group with again" list immediately. __________________ Alone - Templar 70 (Antonia Bayle) guild: Journeymen of the Overlord SoaringEagle - Guardian 64 (Antonia Bayle) guild: Journeymen of the Overlord Eliania - Coercer 44 (Antonia Bayle) guild: Viatores Norrathae Backlash - Fury 16 (Antonia Bayle) guild: Journeymen of the Overlord Litefoot - Predator 15 (Antonia Bayle) guild: Viatores Norrathae

03-04-2005, 02:26 AM	#34
BlueKnightLPL Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 46	double post Message Edited by BlueKnightLPL on 03-03-2005 01:27 PM __________________ Alone - Templar 70 (Antonia Bayle) guild: Journeymen of the Overlord SoaringEagle - Guardian 64 (Antonia Bayle) guild: Journeymen of the Overlord Eliania - Coercer 44 (Antonia Bayle) guild: Viatores Norrathae Backlash - Fury 16 (Antonia Bayle) guild: Journeymen of the Overlord Litefoot - Predator 15 (Antonia Bayle) guild: Viatores Norrathae

03-04-2005, 02:42 AM	#35
AlA Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	I am surprised that a GM would do this for you. I would have expected that they would have said you will have to find help. What an awesome generous and kind thing that GM did! Yay! /t SOE "You have just gained a LOT of Alaro faction points!" Rageagainstthem wrote: The shard system is much better than the old days of the corpse run from bind point. Wipes took a ridiculous amount of time to recover from on raids and led to alot of lost sleep and frustration. I don't ever want to go back to that nonsense. I don't think that is the problem, as someone else had mentioned. Its the idiots leaving before shard recovery is finished. It happened to me the other night. The cleric left immediately after the group wiped no tell or anything, found another group and when I sent him a tell asking to please come back and rez me, he said sorry mate I'm in a group in permafrost and I'm not leaving. The thing that really [Removed for Content] me off about this idiot is we spent about 4-5 hours helping him along with a quest "Menagerie" in Everfrost and he doesn't think its worth an extra 30 min or so to come back and rez us. I was fortunate a gm helped me with the shard recovery a couple days after. If I left a corpse and was naked it wouldn['t have made things any easier. I think a better idea would be to make shard recovery automatic after 24 hours offline. That way if you are casual player it really doesn't cause that much of a problem and at the same time there still is a penalty. That would also save the gms from having to get involved when shards are left in areas making it impossible to recover them by yourself.

03-04-2005, 03:25 AM	#37
Samnas Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	FeeRsuM wrote: that didnt actually make any sense to me and i have an iq of 146 congratulations Does it really make you feel superior to state your IQ? Even if we could believe you why would we care? I think most of us have no idea what our IQ is because we do not feel the need to take the test for the sole reason of demonstrating how much better we are than someone else. Anyway on to the topic at hand I would explain it thoroughly for you, but I do not think my IQ is high enough to state it in a way someone of your greatness could comprehend. I do think it had something to do with the fact that you said in a previous post you bailed on people.... then stated that nobody hears you whining. The poster might have been referencing that since you are the one who bails you dont really have much to whine about.

03-04-2005, 02:14 AM	#31
Savara Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 62	The shard system is much better than the old days of the corpse run from bind point. Wipes took a ridiculous amount of time to recover from on raids and led to alot of lost sleep and frustration. I don't ever want to go back to that nonsense. I don't think that is the problem, as someone else had mentioned. Its the idiots leaving before shard recovery is finished. It happened to me the other night. The cleric left immediately after the group wiped no tell or anything, found another group and when I sent him a tell asking to please come back and rez me, he said sorry mate I'm in a group in permafrost and I'm not leaving. The thing that really [Removed for Content] me off about this idiot is we spent about 4-5 hours helping him along with a quest "Menagerie" in Everfrost and he doesn't think its worth an extra 30 min or so to come back and rez us. I was fortunate a gm helped me with the shard recovery a couple days after. If I left a corpse and was naked it wouldn['t have made things any easier. I think a better idea would be to make shard recovery automatic after 24 hours offline. That way if you are casual player it really doesn't cause that much of a problem and at the same time there still is a penalty. That would also save the gms from having to get involved when shards are left in areas making it impossible to recover them by yourself.

03-04-2005, 02:43 AM	#36
Naggyba Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 518	There is a very simply solution.When you die, offer more than just the revive option.Revive with no shard in the world plus 1% extra debt (or whatever they want to make it, just not too crazy).Revive with shard in the worldReviving with shard and more debt, will still give a penalty but, for those times when it would be a nightmare, or take a LONG time to recover, the person could choose more debt over having to recover the shard.Reviving with shard in the world would be just like it is now.When Vox is sitting on your shard because of a mob up top above her, punts you down onto her, reviving with a little more debt would be a better choice than leaving the shard for several days, because there is simply no way you can recover it without dying more times.

03-04-2005, 03:28 AM	#38
Samnas Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	FeeRsuM wrote: this is a difficult concept to grasp i realise, but, the world does not revolve around you. chances are if you died so did the rest of the group, so wait for a res, unless you are hunting without a healer (in which case you should have stayed where you werent likely to be over run) the number of aggro happy tanks i have grouped with is unbelieveable, they pull and pull without even checking if the group is ready, in that situation if the tank gets himself or other party members killed for their gung ho attitude and decides to respawn instead of wait for a res from me, no way am i helping them get their shard back. if i get a penalty for someone elses potential stupidity, thats just another incentive not to group with anyone i dont know Personally in my groups I prefer the tank to pull as fast as he can unless someone says stop. Not stupid; just makes game enjoyable and we dont have to wait 15 seconds between fights for everyone to say 'rdy'. If someone needs a break they say so and the tank waits... otherwise he pulls.

03-04-2005, 08:47 AM	#39
AlA Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	I like the ideas. I'm not clear on what you mean by ... #1 Revive with no shard in the world plus 1% extra debt (or whatever they want to make it, just not too crazy). What would you get in return for the extra percent of debt? If you revive with no shard to recover, how is that different than #3? #2. Revive with shard in the world. Hmm? A bit confusing. Sounds like what we are doing now. Looks like a type-O. #3 I like, but would be better understood to mean reviving with more debt but you auto-absorb your shard upon revival. Naggybait wrote: There is a very simply solution. When you die, offer more than just the revive option. Revive with no shard in the world plus 1% extra debt (or whatever they want to make it, just not too crazy). Revive with shard in the world Reviving with shard and more debt, will still give a penalty but, for those times when it would be a nightmare, or take a LONG time to recover, the person could choose more debt over having to recover the shard. Reviving with shard in the world would be just like it is now. When Vox is sitting on your shard because of a mob up top above her, punts you down onto her, reviving with a little more debt would be a better choice than leaving the shard for several days, because there is simply no way you can recover it without dying more times.

03-04-2005, 09:06 AM	#40
AlA Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	Having a High IQ alone, means very little. IQ is having the ability to call up facts, and analyze things. Wisdom is the ability to use that info. If someone can recognize the solution because they have a high IQ but they can't put into practice the solution because temper prevents them from caring what you do, than what good is it? I've met a few folks with a high IQ. They tended to be cruel, even sadistic, given to fits of rage, selfish and always thought themselves the greatest stuff since sliced bread. I am given to a quick temper, but I thank God, I'm not given to the other things. Tell You what. I'll gladly trade you 30 points of IQ for 15 points of wisdom, patience, common sense and serenity. Conclusion: Do NOT think that someone is superior to you just because they have a higher IQ. Fact is, I find most other folks far superior to me in many ways! I am 49 years old, and I've met fifteen year olds who have more maturity in their pinkey than I and some of the nutcases with high IQ's I've met combined. Samnas wrote: FeeRsuM wrote: that didnt actually make any sense to me and i have an iq of 146 congratulations Does it really make you feel superior to state your IQ? Even if we could believe you why would we care? I think most of us have no idea what our IQ is because we do not feel the need to take the test for the sole reason of demonstrating how much better we are than someone else. Anyway on to the topic at hand I would explain it thoroughly for you, but I do not think my IQ is high enough to state it in a way someone of your greatness could comprehend. I do think it had something to do with the fact that you said in a previous post you bailed on people.... then stated that nobody hears you whining. The poster might have been referencing that since you are the one who bails you dont really have much to whine about. Message Edited by AlAro on 03-04-2005 04:03 PM

03-04-2005, 03:41 PM	#41
Ydiss Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 114	Thespar wrote: Ydiss wrote: Thespar wrote: If people are going to disband while there are shards still out there, they're probably A-hole enough to disband with corpses still out there. Personally, I never disband a group when another player has a shard, IMO its the same as having a corpse out there, you just dont do it. What you're seeing is just a symptom of the problem which is that people have a general lack of respect for fellow players now. Or, they have a life that they cannot abandon for a game... People only use that as a lame excuse as to why they can't stay. "oh my wife says I have to get off this instant now that there are shards out there, she let me play for 12 consecutive hrs but now I can't stay for another 10 min to help you out." coughBScough Nice exageration. __________________

03-04-2005, 03:52 PM	#42
FeeRs Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 32	i dont bail on people as the late great bill hicks said, you arent a person till your in my phone book all joking aside, i will ALWAYS go back and help someone get their shard and will always if i have time help someone a lot lower level to me get their shard back if they ask, for example i was running through vermins snye at level 31 (i forget why, maybe coming from cob i dunno) i am nosy and saw a guy stood around i examined him, noticed his stats were knacked. i asked if he needed help getting his shard back (he was level 12ish if i remember correctly) turns out his shard was in blackburrow. np i said i ran all the way there grouped with him so he could get his shard back then all the way back to antonica to with him to make sure he made it back. i dont bail on people. however if someone does something stupid and gets themselves killed i will not put that much effort in to make their life any easier. if some idiot attacks a mob too powerful for group and gets everyone wiped out. why should i hassle myself helping the idiot get his shard back? if it was an accident fair enough i'll help as best i can. but with what you are suggesting i would suffer a penalty in EITHER case, which is unfair. i willa dmit tho there are some idiots that will leave group as soon as one member dies. there is a difference between that behaviour and the behaviour i am a practitioner of. you say i should suffer for someone elses mistake, i say justify that argument.

03-04-2005, 04:26 PM	#43
Tradeskill_Addict Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 365	FeeRsuM wrote: that didnt actually make any sense to me and i have an iq of 146 I thought in the www everyone has an IQ of 140+? and 18 inches of course :smileyvery-happy: __________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- native german speaker so don't judge my posts by my grammar or spelling - thank you very much :smileywink:

03-04-2005, 04:28 PM	#44
FeeRs Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 32	12 inches lets not get greedy

03-04-2005, 05:04 PM	#45
Tradeskill_Addict Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 365	I forgot that inches are different to the centimeters we use in europe :smileysurprised: ....18 inches...must sound like I am talking about the horse nerf.... __________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- native german speaker so don't judge my posts by my grammar or spelling - thank you very much :smileywink:

03-04-2005, 07:50 PM	#46
Suraklin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 350	EQOA just gives debt when you die. When you killed something after dying half your xp went to debt other half went towards leveling. I'd prefer the EQOA debt system myelf. Shard runs suck. Rather just take an xp hit and make up the debt than have to run back and try to get my shard without dying on the recovery attempt. If ya die between level 1-35 you get a 5% xp debt. Die level 36-50 you take a 10% debt hit. __________________ Relax...it's just an update for the patch to fix the nerf that nerfed the fix for the update of the patch that broke the fix that was fixed on the previous nerf they called an update... Friends don't let friends ask for another classes nerf.

03-04-2005, 10:16 PM	#47
AlA Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	Sometimes you really have no choice. Last night I had to bail on the groups shard including my own thus giving up almost all hope of ever being able to retrieve it. The very worst thing that I dread in this game, the very thing that had I known was to be the punishment for dying in a place were I cannot get my shard or even find it if I could, I would not have bought the game has come to pass. People have to work, people have all kinds of things. I stayed up till 3am trying to help but it was no use. I would have pulled an all nighter, but what use was it when I'm everyone else has gone and I'm the last and the dungeon is abandoned as an old car dumped over a cliff? I always try to contact them the next day to try to help get the shard back, but there has got to be a better way, other than spending all night playing musical shards. If shard loss didn't result in me having jawdroppingly low mana reserve no matter what I drink, if shard loss just meant this whopping huge truckload of debt instead of debt and nasty stat reduction it would not be so bad but THIS if anything, can is what might make me quit the game. Don't misunderstand, I'm not thinking of quitting or threatening to, but if I could point to two things that cause me more distress and pain and that actually take away from my enjoyment of the game and instead gnaws at my gut and guarantees me being sick as a dog and exhausted the next day, its having to leave a groups or my own shard behind and giving up all hope of finding it again. I simply do not know RE enough, and I could run around forever if I didn't get aggro and never ever find the shard with the whacko shard WP that vanishes, flips around like a wild snake only to point right back where I just came from with every other step! FeeRsuM wrote: i dont bail on people as the late great bill hicks said, you arent a person till your in my phone book all joking aside, i will ALWAYS go back and help someone get their shard and will always if i have time help someone a lot lower level to me get their shard back if they ask, for example i was running through vermins snye at level 31 (i forget why, maybe coming from cob i dunno) i am nosy and saw a guy stood around i examined him, noticed his stats were knacked. i asked if he needed help getting his shard back (he was level 12ish if i remember correctly) turns out his shard was in blackburrow. np i said i ran all the way there grouped with him so he could get his shard back then all the way back to antonica to with him to make sure he made it back. i dont bail on people. however if someone does something stupid and gets themselves killed i will not put that much effort in to make their life any easier. if some idiot attacks a mob too powerful for group and gets everyone wiped out. why should i hassle myself helping the idiot get his shard back? if it was an accident fair enough i'll help as best i can. but with what you are suggesting i would suffer a penalty in EITHER case, which is unfair. i willa dmit tho there are some idiots that will leave group as soon as one member dies. there is a difference between that behaviour and the behaviour i am a practitioner of. you say i should suffer for someone elses mistake, i say justify that argument.

03-04-2005, 10:33 PM	#48
SilentSam Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 197	Thespar wrote: Ydiss wrote: Thespar wrote: If people are going to disband while there are shards still out there, they're probably A-hole enough to disband with corpses still out there. Personally, I never disband a group when another player has a shard, IMO its the same as having a corpse out there, you just dont do it. What you're seeing is just a symptom of the problem which is that people have a general lack of respect for fellow players now. Or, they have a life that they cannot abandon for a game... People only use that as a lame excuse as to why they can't stay. "oh my wife says I have to get off this instant now that there are shards out there, she let me play for 12 consecutive hrs but now I can't stay for another 10 min to help you out." coughBScough Ok...wow. There are differences in why someone might have to leave a group before doing a shard run. Two types come to my mind: Type 1 - The other player just drops out without saying anything and heads off cussing under their breath. They go join another group or just ignore everyone from your shard group. Either way, you guys are right and this guys a jerk...or it could also be that the shard group was just that bad that they thought they would be better off without you. Either way, I agree that it is a lame thing to do. Type 2 - There are those that might actually have a real reason for leaving before spending another hour or two to get a shard. I DO have a pregnant wife, a kid, I run my own business, and teach as well. So sometimes if i am playing for only a bit longer but suddenly we get wiped...well sorry guys, this is a game and I actually have other stuff to do, like take care of my family. If your response is "Go play some other game then...cause you gotta be ready to play EQ for uber long times with Leet dudes like me"....well then yer a punk kid who knows no better. I play this game to have fun and to escape the real-world chaos I deal with every day. I don't play in Norrath to appease your needs. If I leave I politely apologize and head out. Sorry that some people have lives. On a side note: Naggybait: I like the idea that you put forward. Sounds like a good simple solution for getting your shard back without being too harsh. AlAro: I fail to see what you didn't understand in Naggybaits ideas...they're laid out quite simply and understandably. I thought you were just bragging about your IQ? :smileytongue: I digress... Message Edited by SilentSam on 03-04-2005 11:36 AM __________________ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Razerclaw Ratonga Warlock of 47 seasons from the lands of Faydark -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

03-04-2005, 11:04 PM	#49
sidgb Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 144	SilentSam wrote: Type 2 - There are those that might actually have a real reason for leaving before spending another hour or two to get a shard. I DO have a pregnant wife, a kid, I run my own business, and teach as well. So sometimes if i am playing for only a bit longer but suddenly we get wiped...well sorry guys, this is a game and I actually have other stuff to do, like take care of my family. If your response is "Go play some other game then...cause you gotta be ready to play EQ for uber long times with Leet dudes like me"....well then yer a punk kid who knows no better. I play this game to have fun and to escape the real-world chaos I deal with every day. I don't play in Norrath to appease your needs. If I leave I politely apologize and head out. Sorry that some people have lives. It went like this: crickets player x leaves group player y leaves group crickets __________________ GYnasis - 76 Guardian Cataclysm - 74 Templar Cylleste - 74 Monk -Permafrost-

03-04-2005, 11:32 PM	#50
Naggyba Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 518	AlAro wrote: I like the ideas. I'm not clear on what you mean by ... #1 Revive with no shard in the world plus 1% extra debt (or whatever they want to make it, just not too crazy). What would you get in return for the extra percent of debt? If you revive with no shard to recover, how is that different than #3? #2. Revive with shard in the world. Hmm? A bit confusing. Sounds like what we are doing now. Looks like a type-O. #3 I like, but would be better understood to mean reviving with more debt but you auto-absorb your shard upon revival. Naggybait wrote:There is a very simply solution.When you die, offer more than just the revive option.Revive with no shard in the world plus 1% extra debt (or whatever they want to make it, just not too crazy).Revive with shard in the worldReviving with shard and more debt, will still give a penalty but, for those times when it would be a nightmare, or take a LONG time to recover, the person could choose more debt over having to recover the shard.Reviving with shard in the world would be just like it is now.When Vox is sitting on your shard because of a mob up top above her, punts you down onto her, reviving with a little more debt would be a better choice than leaving the shard for several days, because there is simply no way you can recover it without dying more times. There were only 2 options in that post. I guess I should have numbered them. Below that was just explaining what I was talking about.1. Revive with no shard in the world plus 1% extra debt (or whatever they want to make it, just not too crazy).2. Revive with shard in the worldFirst option would allow you to revive without leaving a shard, it would just add more debt instead, for those times when shard recover is just impossible or inconvenient. I would rather have a little more debt, than run around with a missing shard (and my stats being lowered). It would be great for those times when recovery could take a long time or impossible.Second option would be like it is now, where you go get your shard.

03-04-2005, 11:52 PM	#51
WuphonsReach Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 558	Lost shards are not a big deal (do a betrayal quest and you'll end up with 1 lost shard right at the start). At one point during the betrayal, I had 2 unrecoverable shards and it really didn't slow me down much. Let's take my level 8 trader and jump him off the 'ship prow' in SFP... initial stats, stats after death, stats after 2nd death.HP 152 (136) (120)Power 178 (157) (13STR 14 (13) (11)AGI 33 (30) (26)STA 17 (15) (14)INT 37 (33) (30)WIS 21 (19) (17)For 2 minutes, you suffer from Revived Sickness which gives you lower stats. Along with 12% debt from not recovering the shard. Then you recover a bit and you'll see STR go from 14 to 13, AGI go from 33 to 30 (roughly a 10% drop in stats).So it's worth it to get a shard back, but not an absolute killer requirement that you do get the shard back. And after 72 hours, that shard gets reabsorbed anyway. (There are dozens of other things you can do such as playing an alt, crafting, running quests, harvesting, watching a movie, reading a book, playing with the kids... nobody says you have to be level 30 by the weekend. That's a personal issue.)All that being said... things I would like to see added:- The ability of group members to drag shards. Sometimes shards end up in bad situations where it's simply not a rezzable location. Especially underwater or when a corpse gets stuck in a non-targetable place.- Allow priests and mages to summon shards of group members using a spell and a reagent. Make it 1sp for t1, 4sp for t2, 16sp for t3, 64sp for t4, and 2.56gp for t5 players.- Perhaps reduce the amount of stat loss to only 5% per shard instead of 10% per shard. __________________ -- Snabbik of Test Pre-order/account canceled on Sep 8 2005

03-05-2005, 05:13 AM	#52
Wiou Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 672	Strongly disagree.Obviously people get very discouraged when they lose a shard..Who wants to be PENALIZED for taking a break?You lose debt and shards over time while camped out.

03-05-2005, 05:22 AM	#53
AlA Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	SilentSam wrote: AlAro: I fail to see what you didn't understand in Naggybaits ideas...they're laid out quite simply and understandably. I thought you were just bragging about your IQ? :smileytongue: LOL!! Touche! Message Edited by AlAro on 03-04-2005 04:31 PM

03-05-2005, 05:30 AM	#54
AlA Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	Hard to tell who you are disagreeing with. I hear a lot of folks saying that they were well nigh useless until three days passed. If you are disagreeing with me, than what you are saying is that not being able to recover your shard does not mean as horrible a stat loss as such folks would have me and others believe. If so, that is good. Either way, since I have the memory of a block of cheese, I'm unable to guess which post you might be replying to. Wiou wrote: Strongly disagree. Obviously people get very discouraged when they lose a shard.. Who wants to be PENALIZED for taking a break? You lose debt and shards over time while camped out.