Is Surveil broken?

Skeptycal · 12-24-2006, 12:57 AM

Is the skill not working or is it a bug? An assassin I group with a lot cannot pull mobs anymore ...

Mr. Dawki · 12-24-2006, 01:04 AM

wow you missed the other 30 or so threads whining about this !!!!

t0gar · 12-24-2006, 01:11 AM

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=40&message.id=18560

HellRaiserXX · 12-24-2006, 01:48 AM

No its not, it got changed so it will pull social aggro on creatures with social tendencies.

Skeptycal · 12-28-2006, 01:21 PM

Sorry I didn't see other posts. I figured this would be a major issue and at the time I visited the forums there were no topics related on the first page. I didn't look further. I didn't mean to dredge up anything, just curious because we liked and used this skill a lot in our groups =)Take care.

Hisvet · 12-28-2006, 09:09 PM

[Surveillance rumors are rife on Rangers forums probably here too we have reports of it working in PoA but not SoS etc. Below I asked to do some testing in Labs when we did a run. I recommend you ALL pull out your different versions of the Surveil line and start testing. Copied post]

If we could stop mourning about it and kvetching on other classes and do some testing to see just what we DO have currently I think we might see something very screwed up and that is something I doubt was intended.

I could not do conclusive tests last night in the Labs because we just needed to get through it quickly and didn't have the healing. What I did find out was this:

We do labs every week in about 2 hours they are very predictable pulls to us so we know when we'll get 2 mobs with social or not. This was the second time I tried pulling in labs since the bork. We had 4 rangers and 1 assassin with various levels of Surveil, Improved Surveil and Surveillance but I only used A3s and M1s to pull test. And before anyone says anything, yes we have a LOT of rangers in my guild. We've done labs with NO mages, this last time we had 2, its just the way the guild works sometimes, we get stuff done anyway (even Deathtoll).

First time in labs we tried using the A3 version and the A1 version of Surveillance level 70 on the trash mobs in the first part of the dungeon and it pulled social post LU 30 where it never had before. It also pulled it in social at the Doomsworn Droag before Corsolander where it never had before.

Last night I wanted to see if an A3 version of Improved Surveil and A3 of Surveil did the same. It did NOT. They did not pull social aggro and pulling with those two in Labs on the yellow heroic 3^^^s operated just like the old Surveillance lvl 70. Tried again with Surveillance M1. Social Aggro pulled.

So the lvl 50s and 40s of the line worked on the 4 pulls we tried. The lvl 70 failed by pulling social.

I could look at a map and tell you exactly where the pulls occurred given time and this was not conclusive because the MT would not let us test before the Doomsworn Droag again. I suggest all of get out your OLDER versions of Surveillance and test them in each instance you go in to.

It might work in one instance and not in another. It might be that in "fixing" lvl 70 they broke the earlier versions again. Somehow it seems consistant in the line that what lvl 70 IS is *not* what the others of the line ARE. I have an Assassin in my guild in her 30s saying she's using surveil pulls in Runnyeye without any aggro problems.

It IS possible in adjusting for no pet aggro in the city zones they DID bork Surveillance. Its also possible in 'fixing' lvl 70 they threw off the whole rest of the line again. Its possible some zones work and some dont. Do some tests, try it. bring back answers. I'll copy this to the Assassin page so they can test too.

Hisvet

70 Ranger

AB

HazNpho · 12-28-2006, 09:34 PM

From what I have seen the entire line was able to work. But Surveilance had a 0% from what I heard, I never got a chance to try it pre nerf. But if they "fixed" surveillance then they are going to "fix" the others. Its just a matter of time.

Hisvet · 12-28-2006, 09:42 PM

The line and lvl 70 have been out of synch for a year. The way it used to work over a year ago was this....You use a surveillance line pull and the mobs went to the guy standing next to you, even if they weren't grouped with you. Lots of griefing potential.

A year ago they "fixed" the line. The Fix was to have the other versions pull some aggro. But not Lvl 70. For some reason Surveillance didn't get fixed when the line got fixed. Surveillance pulled no social ever.

LU30 Surveillance is now pulling social like a normal arrow shot, but the rest of the line is not. Of the pulls we did in Labs las tnight on mobs that should have resisted, whites and yellow heroics none of them resisted any of the lower level surveil pulling. No social aggro. Same mobs WITH Surveillance lvl 70 full social aggro.

I am not sure this was a fix, or they just might have broken their own lines again. I'm not sure if this is raid specific but I do know everyone is complaining and not coming back with good data on it to figure it out.

I only tested on mobs whose behavior I know without a doubt their behavior. 40s and 50s pulled without any social 70 pulled social for each of the tests. I'll ask to keep pulling when I can in raid zones to test.

HazNpho · 12-28-2006, 09:59 PM

I'll have to test this myself then. And Surveil did in fact send mobs to the closest guy too... I remember a templar greifing my group so I did surviel and elude to dispatch the 3 that were on me. He got tooled. Maybe this was them trying to fix that bug, if thats the case... SMILEY

if not... well I'm going to remain unhappy.

HellRaiserXX · 12-30-2006, 09:43 AM

I can confirm that the lower level versions are not pulling social while surveillance is, but it does seem to be certain zones. Like in Kaladim all versions of it pulled social, but in other zones the lower versions didnt. It may be due to the socialbility of the mob and maybe proximity as well. Since Surveillance is such a high level ability they may react to it easier than lower lvl versions. If they are not as social they may not react to a lower version. It would be interesting to see how the social aggro equations worked. I am pretty sure that when SOE put in the fix to surveillance they borked the rest of the line, happens all the time when SOE "fixes" stuff, something in the way they code things. So for now, just use the lower level versions for pulling and the 70 for your deagro while in combat and eventually Im sure SOE will get around to "fixing" that as well.

Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on 12-29-2006 09:05 PM

Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on 12-29-2006 09:06 PM

Malaqai · 12-30-2006, 05:04 PM

Was testing Improved Surveil duoing stuff in KoS zones with guild MT. Didn't get an add once, and the mob went straight to him (whether it went to him cos he was the only other person in group or cos of my hate transfer, need to check in a group of at least three, will do that later).So as it is, I got Improved Surveil on my hotbar for pulling, Surveillance for combat. Still not 100% sure Imporved Surveil is competely non-social, but like I said... I was pulling nameds out of bunches of mobs, never got an add.

HellRaiserXX · 12-31-2006, 02:19 AM

Malaqai wrote:

Still not 100% sure Imporved Surveil is competely non-social, but like I said... I was pulling nameds out of bunches of mobs, never got an add.

Its not, it was pulling social from kobolds at the entrance of Kaladim, didnt try pulling much else. Keepi trying it in different zones, especially raid zones, that way we can figure out which zones it works in.

HazNpho · 01-02-2007, 09:02 PM

I can also confirm Imp Surv. works, just not 100% like Surveillance did. At least it was working in SoS and RE.

Message Edited by HazNpho on 01-02-2007 08:02 AM

Swinneyi · 01-06-2007, 12:27 AM

Last night Surveillance was working as it always had in AOAX4 with talandors adds after a wipe. Also worked wit hsome of the droags at the entrance. Didn't do any pulling in labs though besides mobs that were not goin to add anything anyways. Now I think the problem is zone specific, I have noticed that in most EoF instance zones (CoV, OoB) and the one time I did a pull in Freethinkers it was pulling social aggro.

12-24-2006, 12:57 AM	#1
Skeptycal Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 125	Is the skill not working or is it a bug? An assassin I group with a lot cannot pull mobs anymore ... __________________ Nada Dam'Ting - 7x Guardian Quest - 80 Necro Voices Within -- Venekor

12-24-2006, 01:11 AM	#3
t0gar Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 92	http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=40&message.id=18560 __________________ ____________________ Resident of Kithicor. Pawkeo - 70 Assassin - 69 Tailor Jido - 70 Fury

12-24-2006, 01:48 AM	#4
HellRaiserXX Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 440	No its not, it got changed so it will pull social aggro on creatures with social tendencies. __________________ Raina 70 Assassin <retired for now>

12-28-2006, 01:21 PM	#5
Skeptycal Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 125	Sorry I didn't see other posts. I figured this would be a major issue and at the time I visited the forums there were no topics related on the first page. I didn't look further. I didn't mean to dredge up anything, just curious because we liked and used this skill a lot in our groups =)Take care. __________________ Nada Dam'Ting - 7x Guardian Quest - 80 Necro Voices Within -- Venekor

12-28-2006, 09:59 PM	#9
HazNpho Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 168	I'll have to test this myself then. And Surveil did in fact send mobs to the closest guy too... I remember a templar greifing my group so I did surviel and elude to dispatch the 3 that were on me. He got tooled. Maybe this was them trying to fix that bug, if thats the case... if not... well I'm going to remain unhappy.

12-24-2006, 01:04 AM	#2
Mr. Dawki General Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 789	wow you missed the other 30 or so threads whining about this !!!!

12-28-2006, 09:09 PM	#6
Hisvet Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 100	[Surveillance rumors are rife on Rangers forums probably here too we have reports of it working in PoA but not SoS etc. Below I asked to do some testing in Labs when we did a run. I recommend you ALL pull out your different versions of the Surveil line and start testing. Copied post] If we could stop mourning about it and kvetching on other classes and do some testing to see just what we DO have currently I think we might see something very screwed up and that is something I doubt was intended. I could not do conclusive tests last night in the Labs because we just needed to get through it quickly and didn't have the healing. What I did find out was this: We do labs every week in about 2 hours they are very predictable pulls to us so we know when we'll get 2 mobs with social or not. This was the second time I tried pulling in labs since the bork. We had 4 rangers and 1 assassin with various levels of Surveil, Improved Surveil and Surveillance but I only used A3s and M1s to pull test. And before anyone says anything, yes we have a LOT of rangers in my guild. We've done labs with NO mages, this last time we had 2, its just the way the guild works sometimes, we get stuff done anyway (even Deathtoll). First time in labs we tried using the A3 version and the A1 version of Surveillance level 70 on the trash mobs in the first part of the dungeon and it pulled social post LU 30 where it never had before. It also pulled it in social at the Doomsworn Droag before Corsolander where it never had before. Last night I wanted to see if an A3 version of Improved Surveil and A3 of Surveil did the same. It did NOT. They did not pull social aggro and pulling with those two in Labs on the yellow heroic 3^^^s operated just like the old Surveillance lvl 70. Tried again with Surveillance M1. Social Aggro pulled. So the lvl 50s and 40s of the line worked on the 4 pulls we tried. The lvl 70 failed by pulling social. I could look at a map and tell you exactly where the pulls occurred given time and this was not conclusive because the MT would not let us test before the Doomsworn Droag again. I suggest all of get out your OLDER versions of Surveillance and test them in each instance you go in to. It might work in one instance and not in another. It might be that in "fixing" lvl 70 they broke the earlier versions again. Somehow it seems consistant in the line that what lvl 70 IS is not what the others of the line ARE. I have an Assassin in my guild in her 30s saying she's using surveil pulls in Runnyeye without any aggro problems. It IS possible in adjusting for no pet aggro in the city zones they DID bork Surveillance. Its also possible in 'fixing' lvl 70 they threw off the whole rest of the line again. Its possible some zones work and some dont. Do some tests, try it. bring back answers. I'll copy this to the Assassin page so they can test too. Hisvet 70 Ranger AB

12-28-2006, 09:34 PM	#7
HazNpho Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 168	From what I have seen the entire line was able to work. But Surveilance had a 0% from what I heard, I never got a chance to try it pre nerf. But if they "fixed" surveillance then they are going to "fix" the others. Its just a matter of time.

12-28-2006, 09:42 PM	#8
Hisvet Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 100	The line and lvl 70 have been out of synch for a year. The way it used to work over a year ago was this....You use a surveillance line pull and the mobs went to the guy standing next to you, even if they weren't grouped with you. Lots of griefing potential. A year ago they "fixed" the line. The Fix was to have the other versions pull some aggro. But not Lvl 70. For some reason Surveillance didn't get fixed when the line got fixed. Surveillance pulled no social ever. LU30 Surveillance is now pulling social like a normal arrow shot, but the rest of the line is not. Of the pulls we did in Labs las tnight on mobs that should have resisted, whites and yellow heroics none of them resisted any of the lower level surveil pulling. No social aggro. Same mobs WITH Surveillance lvl 70 full social aggro. I am not sure this was a fix, or they just might have broken their own lines again. I'm not sure if this is raid specific but I do know everyone is complaining and not coming back with good data on it to figure it out. I only tested on mobs whose behavior I know without a doubt their behavior. 40s and 50s pulled without any social 70 pulled social for each of the tests. I'll ask to keep pulling when I can in raid zones to test.

12-30-2006, 09:43 AM	#10
HellRaiserXX Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 440	I can confirm that the lower level versions are not pulling social while surveillance is, but it does seem to be certain zones. Like in Kaladim all versions of it pulled social, but in other zones the lower versions didnt. It may be due to the socialbility of the mob and maybe proximity as well. Since Surveillance is such a high level ability they may react to it easier than lower lvl versions. If they are not as social they may not react to a lower version. It would be interesting to see how the social aggro equations worked. I am pretty sure that when SOE put in the fix to surveillance they borked the rest of the line, happens all the time when SOE "fixes" stuff, something in the way they code things. So for now, just use the lower level versions for pulling and the 70 for your deagro while in combat and eventually Im sure SOE will get around to "fixing" that as well. Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on 12-29-2006 09:05 PM Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on 12-29-2006 09:06 PM __________________ Raina 70 Assassin <retired for now>

12-30-2006, 05:04 PM	#11
Malaqai Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 70	Was testing Improved Surveil duoing stuff in KoS zones with guild MT. Didn't get an add once, and the mob went straight to him (whether it went to him cos he was the only other person in group or cos of my hate transfer, need to check in a group of at least three, will do that later).So as it is, I got Improved Surveil on my hotbar for pulling, Surveillance for combat. Still not 100% sure Imporved Surveil is competely non-social, but like I said... I was pulling nameds out of bunches of mobs, never got an add.

12-31-2006, 02:19 AM	#12
HellRaiserXX Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 440	Malaqai wrote: Still not 100% sure Imporved Surveil is competely non-social, but like I said... I was pulling nameds out of bunches of mobs, never got an add. Its not, it was pulling social from kobolds at the entrance of Kaladim, didnt try pulling much else. Keepi trying it in different zones, especially raid zones, that way we can figure out which zones it works in. __________________ Raina 70 Assassin <retired for now>

01-02-2007, 09:02 PM	#13
HazNpho Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 168	I can also confirm Imp Surv. works, just not 100% like Surveillance did. At least it was working in SoS and RE. Message Edited by HazNpho on 01-02-2007 08:02 AM

01-06-2007, 12:27 AM	#14
Swinneyi Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6	Last night Surveillance was working as it always had in AOAX4 with talandors adds after a wipe. Also worked wit hsome of the droags at the entrance. Didn't do any pulling in labs though besides mobs that were not goin to add anything anyways. Now I think the problem is zone specific, I have noticed that in most EoF instance zones (CoV, OoB) and the one time I did a pull in Freethinkers it was pulling social aggro.