Current State of the Assassin

[MystaSkrat]

I wish Concealment would just remove all the requirements for all of our CAs for 7 seconds or so instead.  That would be 100 times better to me.

[Dragonsviperz]

That would be the pwn, but I'm happy with Concealment as it is.

[Hadanelith]

If Teal's proposed change went in, it'd basically be doing what Mysta said =p Since we have what, 9 stealth attacks in our repertoire? 1 of which is down 9/10 times Concealment is up, and the other half the time?

I have to say I like the idea, b/c having Concealment screwed up by tiny little AoE's that may or may not do damage REALLY ticks me off. "Soandso's Thornstorm hits you but your ward absorbs it... Soandso's Thornstorm hits you but your ward absorbs it... Soandso's Thornstorm hits you but your ward absorbs it... " (meanwhile) *click click click... mumble... stupid thing not working...*

/sigh =/

-Hadanelith Raswrolski, 70 Assassin of Kithicor

[alshell]

OK Guys....15 pages of posts on the demerits and short-comings of the current state of the Assassin Class, and not a single reply by a Dev.......doesn`t this say something? They don`t give a monkeys what you or I think, or feel, or what our frustrations are. This is my first, and probably my last, post on this forum. EQ2 is not the place to play any form of `assassin`, the actual class doesn`t exist!

That sounds harsh, and yes, I`m a level 70 Assassin and used to really enjoy playing the character, it was fun and we could do things that others couldn`t.

Sneeking past 3-up Red-con heroic or epic mobs to see what else was around so that raid leaders and groups knew what they were facing and giving back reports of what was in the next area was fun. So was the abilities to take a mob down in seconds, that has all gone..a long time ago now.

Dictionary Definition of Assassin is someone who murders through either stealth or surprise for political or monetary gain...where are our capabilities of doing this? (unless we`re taking on green/grey mobs that is).

Since the EoF expansion, the situation of the Assassin has become far worse. Using exactly the same equipment and weapons that i had pre-EoF, my dps settles around the 600-650 mark, whereas, before, I was hitting 900-1k. That is an astounding 33% reduction in my damage capability, what other class has had such a huge reduction?

Also, STILL the Devs have not fixed the issue between the pally`s Amends and our Murderous Design, we still can`t have both up when in the same group or they cancell each other out and neither takes effect. This has been going on for over 12 months now, it begs the question of what the Devs are actually doing?....sometimes I think they are playing WoW on the side and seeing what rubbish they can give us next that is a rip-off from there.

Unfortunately, I think that I`m going to shelve my assassin and play my coercer instead, or start a Swashie....coz we are so broken and useless now, that we are no longer a required team-member....just a space-filler.

All the past 15 pages of posts have said the same thing time after time after time...and yet not 1 Dev has had the decency or honesty to reply and put forward their views of what they perceive the Assassins role to be, this is just pure ignorance/lack of customer care/ or just an attitude of `Who gives a toss what you guys think...we`re still getting your money, so what?`

SOE should learn that employing people to deal with customer issues means that they should do just that, not neglect their job and sit back taking a fat pay packet for doing nothing, as they seem to be doing with the Assassin players, who, after all, contribute at least some of the money that goes into those pay packets.

 

 

[Computer MAn]

I honestly don't know what you are talking about. Assassin's are one of the best classes in the game right now and really don't have any major issues that I have seen. Are there a few bugs? Of course but we are still top 3 arguably the #1 DPS in the game.

[alshell]

Obviously you are one of the `uber` equipped assassins in game ( only 6 items that aren`t Fabled), and well done and good luck to you, but for us mere mortals who haven`t got every single art at Master, don`t have all the fabled gear, and are just trying to have fun with a class that used to be playable and enjoyable, then all the previous 15 pages holds true....you think 15 pages of dissatisfaction is just an illusion?....boy....get your head somewhere out of the clouds and into the real world.

If 1 class of player is reduced in the amount of damage they can do by 1/3...then something is seriously amiss, and Im sure that everyone who has posted on this subject suddenly hasn`t, overnight, become totally useless in playing the class, that just doesn`t happen.

Message Edited by alshell on 12-02-2006 10:36 PM

[Computer MAn]

---

alshell wrote:

Obviously you are one of the `uber` equipped assassins in game ( only 6 items that aren`t Fabled), and well done and good luck to you, but for us mere mortals who haven`t got every single art at Master, don`t have all the fabled gear, and are just trying to have fun with a class that used to be playable and enjoyable, then all the previous 15 pages holds true....you think 15 pages of dissatisfaction is just an illusion?....boy....get your head somewhere out of the clouds and into the real world.

---

Well first off who are you comparing your damage to a similarly geared player or a twink. Many players who you will find leveling up are twinks and hence will be out DPSing you by a fair amount. Under equal circumstances an Assassin will win most of the time.

[Skratttt]

NECRO REVIVAL FTL!!!!

 

Let this die PLZ

[Masu]

Are you people serious?

Assassins rock, I really have no idea how you can suck so bad to complain like this...

 

 

 

[Hadanelith]

Alshell-

I'm going to point a couple things out here before I get rolling...

1. I am a top-end assassin, with one of the very few legit 30k+ hits globally. (Legit = not abusing the Duel Bugs of early DOF)
2. I wear full-Fabled thanks to raiding
3. I have all but 2 Attack CA's Mastered (only other Master I'm missing is our Hate Transfer)
4. I have NOT yet messed around with getting good, T7 Adornments

With those things said, I must say, though we have ALL seen some cuts on our DPS since EoF went live (universal nerfs), I and other Assassins still easily top parses in both Raids and Groups. With the EoF changes, I have actually GAINED in ability to destroy Heroic mobs and solo-cons (with the exception of those god-awful Solo Cons in Mistmoore Castle, but I even handle them fairly well), and indeed have soloed several Catacombs Nameds on my Assassin.

You claim to have seen a 33% decrease in your DPS, but as a Raiding Assassin I can say that this number is inflated on your part. Where I used to regularly parse 1300 - 1500, I now more frequently parse 1100 - 1300, a 200 DPS loss across the board. Taking the medians of these ranges (1400 and 1200) that's about a 14% loss... let's say 15% just to be generous. HOWEVER, I have not Adorned my Weapons with T7 Proc Adornments, nor have I invested in one of the Shoulder Adornments that procs extra damage with every single hit. Once you factor these in, ESPECIALLY with our Critical Spell (read: Critical Proc) AA, that gains back the DPS we lost easily. So yes, if you have not yet done these things, you will see a larger loss than we have actually suffered. Now you just need a couple more one-time investments to get to your potential.

If you expect to be killing Raid mobs in a matter of a few seconds, or continue to believe that you can sneak past Epics, here's a wakeup call: We've not been able to sneak past Epics since DoF launched. That's gone. Poof. Forget about it. Does it kinda suck for ALL scouts? Yes, but it also makes sense - monsters that powerful should be able to tell when people are in their domain, especially when they're toting a small hoard of magically enchanted armaments.

Get used to the Amend / Murderous Design thing. That is "bugged" (read: DOES NOT FUNCTION) in that manner for the same reason Tank Avoidance buffs don't work that way, and for the same reason two Crusaders can't both put Gift of Armament on the same person. It's not a bug at all, it's a built-in mechanic that helps to keep the game in relative balance. If a Paladin has Amends on you, they shouldn't need to have your MD on them anyway, unless it's a really awful Paladin.

For ALL of you, not just Alshell, who cite the "past 15 pages".... keep in mind that this is a very, VERY long-running Thread which dates back at least as far as GU#15, if not prior. We're in the 30's now, there's a lot of old gripes on here that no longer apply. Frankly we don't need people who not only can't adjust to changes in the Class and make complaints where they're truly warranted, but also cannot ~read~ and ~think~ well enough to realize what is and is not relatively current giving the rest of us playing the class a bad name.

I'm sorry to hear that you can no longer enjoy your Assassin, but I assure you that if you take the time to adjust to the recent changes, you'll find that we've actually GAINED in functionality, not lost. Avoidance actually works something close to properly now, so that even with lower Avoidance that our Persona -showed- before we dodge BETTER than pre-EoF, we have more procs available for use with our AA line due to Adornments (and, potentially, yet-undiscovered equipment), and we got some pretty decent EoF AA's that assist in regaining what little ground we lost in terms of DPS as well as giving us additional aggro-control and improved soloability. If all you do to determine the usefulness of your class is look at a parse immediately following a major combat change and reminisce on abilities of ten GU's past, then you're not going to enjoy ANY class you play.

 

-Hadanelith Raswrolski of Kithicor

[Tealdea]

You're just a tad bit late.

Message Edited by Tealdeath on 12-03-2006 09:19 PM

[steelbadger]

Hehehee, some people still complaining?I've had my assassin for almost a year now.  I am happy.  I can remember days of frustration finding ways to kill solo mobs in Commonlands, I can remember those times when I couldn't get aggro even if I tried really hard.Now?  I'm level 70, I've got 2 (omg yes, only 2) masters.  I am still primarily in Xegonite armour.Yet I am happier now than I was then, far happier.I, with apprentice IV's, can equal the DPS of an almost fully mastered conjuror.   I do what I was intended to do...  Now I can die happy in the knowledge that it was my dps that got me aggro, not a noob tank :smileytongue:

[Criesi]

Well I started my Assassin after FoE, so missed out on all the nerfs etc.  I have levelled a zerker, dirge, necro and others to mid 30s but havent as had much fun with any of them as I do with my Assassin.  The class rocks, yes I know there are still some issues with the class and do think we sacrifice too much sometimes compared to other classes and gain very little from it.  Some people are gonna have a go coz I am only lvl 31 and dont know what I am talking about.

I mean how many other classes have to be in stealth or behind in order to get skills off - not many and our stun doesnt work on ^^^ (may work in higher levels) to get behind them to use a stealthed or back attack.  I think some classes (not naming any) have gained a lot in the resent FoE in that they can DPS really well, still keep utility or be able to DPS from a distant without the need of skill.

We have to get up close and personal which is what an assassin does - but does that mean we shouldnt be detected - no.  If an assasin was attacking a monk/bruiser their years of training their senses would tell them you were there, even if they couldnt see you - that is what they do.  Same reason a scout NPC can see you because they are trained to detect in the same way you were as a scout.

I think we should be the only scout class that can use certain poisons, or at least our poisons hit for me - an Assassin speciality.  I mean a Ranger uses a bow from anything from upto 20+ meters, and has massive DPS, but if it was windy or wet then there should be a chance that it misses, or hits for less.  Yet we are usually less than a meter away in stealth and can make a pinpoint attack where we want and we DPS about the same - should that be so, probably not.

 

[Jvaloth]

Something tells me this thread is going to get dusted off and put into use again if we don't get some DPS lovin.

 

 

[Armill]

*starts dusting off the thread* Well....we need some dps loving.

[LoreLady]

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Armill wrote:

*starts dusting off the thread* Well....we need some dps loving.

---

Assassin dps is fine - its still very easy for an assassin to average 1.8k zonewide with only EoF AA's - it should be easier to average 2k zonewide with adornments and  100 aa's for an assassin - I dont see any problem.

[Tealdea]

I'm sad about Getaway getting it's nerf, that's the only thing I'd like to see remain with the Assn class I think it's fine the way it is, unbreakable 30 sec stealth able to attack from it with AoE immunity with a 1.5 min recast.You can't really say it's overpowered for PvE or PVP for any reason. #1 PvP, no one runs arround without butterfly and owltotems, I can say this for myself, I have a few decent pvp toons mid to high lvl. PvE same thing, who cares if you lost to anassn in /duel because you didn't have see stealth? Ah yes, it's over powered because brig's got amazing reflexes nerf'd... Big deal, atleast your attack don't say "You must be sneakingto use this ability" or "You must be in stealth" when you get hit by the smallest harmless aoe Heh, I had really thought for justa second SoE had did us a great favor to keep us in a fight with a huge aoe for 1/3 - 1/4 of that AoE being cast. It really does helpmuch much more than what it's going to after it's nerf =As a level 70 near-end game (not fully fabled, ) who parse 1.5k-2k+ regulary on my raids, this is the only thing in a long long timethat's going to make me sad

[Armill]

Lore...your a dope, when we can get out dpsed by conjurors and necros, sometimes swashies, there is a problem. We do need dps loving...

[nevkien]

Hi, I have no issues with the EoF expansion. As a matter of fact, my dps has gone up. I used to hang around the 700 dps area, now I do around 1100-1200 and might hit 1400 with decap. I have all my dot and stealth masters ans some other ones and all  the rest are adept 3. I have Some of the best KoS gear, around 70 aa (str, agi and the new dor line) and a few adornments (t7 str wrist, shoulder and poison dot) I use all 3 types of poison and ensure that they are dps or debuff. My stats are approx, 570 str, 600 agi, 450 sta, 250 int and 100 wis and I have a 23% haste item. Basically my Assassin is set up for major dps. The only problem is... I am sick to death of seeing Rogues top me in the parse. As a matter of fact, they seem to be doin anywhere from 1600-1800 dps which is around 500 more than me in raids. Even when I am placed in a decent group, I am still out dpsed by at least 200. I now realize that it is probably the order and combination of my abilities. I pretty much just start off with all my dots and debuffs, then I start laying in with my stealth attacks, refreshing my dots every time they pop back up. If ALL of my attack abilities are down this is the chance I take to use de-aggro skills. Maybe I am using bad strat, I dunno. Is there anyone that can help me spacifically. I know that Brigs and Swashys are good, but I refuse to believe that they are better at dps than assassins, especially THAT much better. Thanks to any help out there. Specifics would be very appreciated.

 

PS- The Rogues that out dps basically have the same gear than me if not worse and they have basically the same number of Master skills as well.

[evilpants]

" My stats are approx, 570 str, 600 agi, 450 sta, 250 int and 100 wis and I have a 23% haste item. Basically my Assassin is set up for major dps."

 

 

Are these numbers self buffed, group buffed or Raid buffed? If thats self buffed what gear are you wearing because I want it.

[Recca[BK]]

wait wait wait you have some of the best gear from kos and you hun garound 700 dps???i get near 1k just autoattacking. the problem isnt the rgiues its your dps.now i do think we need a dps increase from the eof AAs casue they are all nearly useless, while a few other dps classes got a good dps boost. ither than the lack of a dps increaser from the eof AA we are in a great dps spot.

Message Edited by Recca[BK] on 12-20-2006 04:26 PM

[nevkien]

{Are these numbers self buffed, group buffed or Raid buffed? If thats self buffed what gear are you wearing because I want it.}

 

Self buffed. Again, I have several adornments and my cloak pet adds 28 str, and I have full nemesis/Nightfall armor, I have all the top end KoS jewelry such as Echolic band, Relk ring, DT access bracelet, MOA, Draketooth earring... I wield Dirk of Negativity and switch between Wurmslayer and Absolution in main slot.

 

Anyways, Whomever said they do 1k dmg on auto attack alone, either your parser is jacked or you aren't tellin the truth. There is no way in hell that you can do over 1k dps on just auto attack, I don't care how bad [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] your char is equipped. I just tried it and got just over 400 dps on auto attack. I challange anyone else to try it.

[Zheni]

just sell your absolution, its crappy weapon. And most important thing is only to cast concealment+stealth nukes (im casting 5-6 ca's under effect) when brigands call dispach.well, my stats are some 615str, 601agi, 324sta, 193int 106 wis and GDoH+Rapier of Darkness.. on our last run in FTH i did constantly 2.5k extdps on trash (raid wide dps was low tho) after raid got called we were blowing doors for quest and just for fun changed to naked+ 2 tin daggers  ...i did 1000extdps on 2min fight on trash wolves

[nevkien]

[just sell your absolution, its crappy weapon.] and [well, my stats are some 615str, 601agi, 324sta, 193int 106 wis and GDoH+Rapier of Darkness]

 

Ok stats are as follows:

 

Absolution:

25 str 12 sta 25 agi 14 int

80 Health 60 Pow

58.9 dmg rating

 

Grinning Dirk of Horror

25 str 15 agi 15 int

110 health 55 Pow

+3 pierce

56.8 dmg rating

 

I don't see how the Absolution sucks compared to GDoH. Yeah GDoH has +3 piercing, but does that +3 to piercing actually overpower 2.1 more damage rating that much or even at all? I don't know which is better, but I can say that they seem to be pretty equal weapons.

[Zheni]

All you should look from weapon is damage range and weapon delay. That determines how much dmg the weapon does and dont bother to trust soe's dmg rating's. They didnt even tell us correct, what Perfectionist does.

[Tealdea]

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Zhenics wrote:All you should look from weapon is damage range and weapon delay. That determines how much dmg the weapon does and dont bother to trust soe's dmg rating's. They didnt even tell us correct, what Perfectionist does.

---

Zhenics is absolutely correct here. I'm sick and tired of people overrating Damage Rating rofl. It doesn't mean anything. Take the min dmg, add it to the max dmg, then divide that by the weapon's delay and you got your dmg rating that omg, tells you how good the weapon is or if another is better. You might as well wave a magic wand and you'd get the same results.As for Nevkien, dude I can tell you near 1k auto attack dmg is completely possible (he did say near, and that really doesn't apply for a 3+ min raid), I do it myself. I'm my guild's top DPS, quite possibly the highest Assn dps on my server, Befallen, we know drama. That's not my own words btw, that's just what ppl tell me when they compare me to their assassin. Your case Nevkien having the dps you do after what you've stated to have in gear (unsure if your armor is fabled or not, I don't recall you mentioning) just mean's your not playing the class to the full potential.Trust me, that's not intended as a personal attack or a small attempt at pointing a finger and saying "noob, own'd!". It's just something I've already experienced. The assn's in my guild are nearly equally matched to me in gear and claimed they're mastered but I still out parse them and the other raid member's from anywhere arround500 to a big 1k (this is dependant on the encounter of course, and I do use our short duration buffs and use certain weapons according to the fight length. Lets just say the GDoH isn't my only piercer.)  I'm always on top of our parses where as the other assn's can be 3, 4 positions below or not even on there. It just depends if you knowwhat to do, when to do it, and what to do first and follow up with. Also, we don't get to watch tv while casting our CA's like those wuss' over on the wiz/war forums (/point finger and say "NOOB! OWN'D!)The assn's class requires you to know it up and down, upside down, backwards, left, even inside out... We gotta work for our dps. Anyone disagree? Then you're just like me, you've played so long you forgot about the work and it's become a game to you finally.

Message Edited by Tealdeath on 12-22-2006 05:50 AM

[Salat]

Nevkien the reason GDoH is the best weapon on most fights is because of its high end max damage and its long delay.  The 4 second delay usually makes most people think its a crappy weapon for duel weilders the firs time they see it.  Buit the longer delay, is what makes that weapon shine.  It has the best crit rate in game for duel weilds.  Most time its criting for around 1,200 to 1,300 solo.  Granted, I have a few dps adornments on also.  Absolution, to be quite honest, is probally one of the worst criting weapons for our class.  Once they changed the proc rate, back around DoF timeframe, the old theory of the fastest wepaon in primary hand was no longer true. 

 

The combination I prefer, is GDoH in primary hand, and Dirk of Negativity in offhand.  If, our raid force is short on healers, I will switch out to Qeynos Claymore in primary, and GDoH in off hand for names, to try and get a few AoE immunities and also effect the Names CA damage by 10% for a few seconds.  But that is just me, sometimes going all out dps isnt the best thing, and you have to look at the raid build and see if you can help it other ways, while still doing great DPS. 

 

Now, another reason GDoH is great for raids, is the haste mod making that 4 second delay into a 2 second delay or less.  I forget the bare minimum delay you can have off the top of my head.  But those fast delay weapons reach it quickly, and the rest of the haste isnt doing much for you.

 

When I look at weapons now, the only two factors I look at are simply, the max damage and the delay. 

[Graton]

the gdoh is the best assassin weapon in the game but not for the reasons listed here. i'm not sure why the many myths around it continue but anyway. here's what isn't true and here is why it is the king of dw'ers for us still.

---

Salat wrote:

Nevkien the reason GDoH is the best weapon on most fights is because of its high end max damage and its long delay.  The 4 second delay usually makes most people think its a crappy weapon for duel weilders the firs time they see it.  Buit the longer delay, is what makes that weapon shine.  It has the best crit rate in game for duel weilds. 

---

Crit rate is determined by gear with crit bonus, class, aa's, buffs and potions. it has nothing to do with the delay on a weapon.

---

Salat wrote:

 

The combination I prefer, is GDoH in primary hand, and Dirk of Negativity in offhand.  If, our raid force is short on healers, I will switch out to Qeynos Claymore in primary, and GDoH in off hand for names, to try and get a few AoE immunities and also effect the Names CA damage by 10% for a few seconds. 

---

you can proc the cutlass from your offhand. your offhand will not proc poison but it will proc innate effects that are on weapons.

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Salat wrote:

Absolution, to be quite honest, is probably one of the worst criting weapons for our class. 

---

no, it's average like the vast majority of weapons in that it has a 3 to 1 ratio max to minimum. there are a couple weapons like the vampiric axe , the dirk of negativity, the dirk from the clockwork menace & of course the gdoh which have much larger ratios but they are the exceptions not the rule.

---

Salat wrote:

Now, another reason GDoH is great for raids, is the haste mod making that 4 second delay into a 2 second delay or less.  I forget the bare minimum delay you can have off the top of my head.  But those fast delay weapons reach it quickly, and the rest of the haste isnt doing much for you.

---

No. there is no minimum delay. A 1.2 delay weapon hasted 100% will swing every .6 seconds.

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Salat wrote:

 

When I look at weapons now, the only two factors I look at are simply, the max damage and the delay. 

---

Nope, that's not it either. Wurmslayer for example has a high maximum dmg but a high minimum dmg as well. it's ratio is 3 to 1 so it's no better or worse from a crit hit perspective than absolution._______________________________________ ___Now as to why the GDoH is so good and whether dmg rating matters...The GDoH is a great weapon only if you have a high critical rate. As it turns out, if you spec your aa's properly , are grouped with a bard and acquire crit rate bonus gear along with potions, as an assassin you can reach very high crit rates in the 30 to 35% range. Before crits were in the game dmg rating was a fairly accurate way to compare weapons. However once crits came about this all changed quite drastically.The reason for this is the mechanic used to determine crit dmg. Critical dmg is sort of a 30 % increase to each hit but it has one added factor. That is that a critical hit must be at least the max dmg of the weapon + 1. Because of this, weapons which have a large ratio of max hit to minimum hit are more likely to strike criticals that would be below the max dmg if they were only scaled up 30%. Therefore they are scaled up more than 30% being the higher the ratio of max to min the more bonus dmg you get from criticals.In addition the higher the actual crit rate, the bigger this advantage is. There is a thread in the combat section authored by rokjin which explains all the math behind this. i've probably not explained it 1/10 as well as he did if you are really interested. i believe the post is stickied.The second really nice feature of GDoH is the long delay. While there is no maximum haste and equal haste helps all weapons equally, this does not take into account combat arts. As assassins we spam combat arts quite alot, swinging our auto attack weapons during refresh time.  Longer delay weapons over time, lose fewer opportunities to swing because of this. This might not make much difference in a 30 second fight. However during a multi minute fight and across an entire raid this can add up to a lot for example. If you have a weapon swinging every 1/2 second vs every 2 seconds, what happens when you cast cloaked assautl which takes 1.5 secs to cast? the .5 delay weapon will have lost possibly as many as 3 opportunities to swing where the one swinging every 2 secs might not have lost a single one.longer delay weapons used to afford a significant boost in poison proc %age but with the recent changes with EoF i haven't really seen enough data to say whether this still holds up or not but it used to help a great deal.there are now adornments in the game which add a fixed amount of dmg per swing to weapons. these would tend to favor fast swiging weapons and it may turn out that there is now a new sweet spot where longer delay is not always good but i suspect that it's advntages in long swings are going to outweigh the potential loss of dmg from not being able to use one of these adornments.

[Salat]

Yea, sorry about that.  Grafton corrected me on my entire post.  Was believeing alot of old myths there.

The weapon delay/haste cap.  I found a dev posting that there is no hard cap on weapon delay. 

"Delay = Weapon Delay / (1 + Haste%)  So with 100% Haste, it would be 1.2 / (1+1) = 0.6. The same weapon with 50% haste would be 1.2 / (1 + 0.5) = 0.8"

 

One question Grafton,

 With CA timer delay on weapons, dont I still get the most benefit from having Cutlass in Primary hand when I use it?  Yea, I know it can still go off in off hand, but I thought that with CA timers at a certain length, you actually interupt your auto atack and it restart with Primary Hand?

[Tealdea]

There's very very few thing's alot of good Assn player's would want fix'd about our class.I consider myself being top 3 on befallen. Please, rofl, I just want you to start with Slip Away, nice and easy change... No reason for it to remain an out-of-combat only stealth.Can we get a nice "Assassin changes : Slip Away no longer carries the out-of-combat only restriction and had it's recast reduced from 15 seconds to 10." on the nextLU update notes please?