For those who felt bad for our Ranger counterparts....

[Saihung23]

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Btw class names are so you get a ideal what that class does. And throwing darts will only put someones eye out Dam Rangers. I'm tired of looting your spell drops!

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ROFL!

I am also tired of looting assassin spell scrolls!  How about we meet in the Enchanted Lands and do a spell scroll exchange

Good Luck and Good Hunting

Sai

[judged_one]

ANOTHER SOE WAY TO SCREW US OVER...So Ranger is being compensated for their lost of DPS with the recent poison and proc nerf.Great, that is really nice thing you guys are doign for Ranger.[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about assassin you stupid pricky DEV.Have you not notice that out poison and proc are nerfed too, do we get a freaking compensation.And who is the freaking retart that think assassin can solo better then rangers.Ranger + Assassin each have 1 root and stun.the different is when ranger does their root they have more then 1 frontal now ca that they can use.while we only have 1. And 60% of our CA is back invis only.Last time I check most of the mobs in KoS is 1 up, which means they break on our 1st attack.Is your extensive testing, like taking a ranger in a group and whacking around 2-3 mobs and call it a day.Despite people posting realistic post and shiit for 6 months you did jack all about the ranger vs assassin.Now rangers are getting an upgrade in the next update. Talk about class bias.In case you didnt notice, Rangers are getting a stun in their agilty AA(it is a range based AA line). So I guess rangers can have 3 stuns, while assassins will be still using their lvl 6 cheapshot.How is that class balancing.This is such lame bs that assassins have to continue to deal with.If rangers can't learn to use their melee CA and learn how to stack their CA to increase their DPS then let them cry.Cause as an assassin I use all my CA including my ranged one. And I don;t sit here and cry how I am an assassin and I shouldnt be doing range.

[davian9]

As far as Assassin soloability.  Changing cheap shot from 2 sec (for ^ and above) to 3 sec would actually make a big difference.  As it stands now if there is ANY lag spike at all, 2 sec is not enough time to stun stealth and backstab a mob.  That one extra sec would realy help assassins more effectively use our backstabs with ^ and up mobs without overpowering us.

I do believe rangers were overnerfed and it is good that they are getting a fix, if for nothing else so that they dont all betray to assassins.  With that in mind, it does bother me that part of the ranger fix gives them a root (even if it is only 4 sec) that will allow them to use there big (ranged) attacks on solo mobs and assassins are still stuck with no real way to use our backstabs on ^ solo mobs.

SOE If you read this, please consider giving the solo assassin a more viable way to use our stealthed attacks when soloing ^ mobs.  There are ALOT of ^ mobs in KoS and it is very frustrating not being able to use my stealthed attacks on them. 

 

[LoreLady]

"Have you not notice that out poison and proc are nerfed too, do we get a freaking compensation.And who is the freaking retart that think assassin can solo better then rangers." - Judged_onePlease explain your thinking and reasoning on this please. From my understanding you should be procing more on weapons, and more on CA's. Your DPS should have gone up in general."In case you didnt notice, Rangers are getting a stun in their agilty AA(it is a range based AA line). So I guess rangers can have 3 stuns, while assassins will be still using their lvl 6 cheapshot.How is that class balancing." - Judged one.Also, I was under the impression that preds got the same AA tree.

Message Edited by LoreLady on 03-07-200611:19 AM

[dea]

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LoreLady wrote:

"Have you not notice that out poison and proc are nerfed too, do we get a freaking compensation.And who is the freaking retart that think assassin can solo better then rangers." - Judged_onePlease explain your thinking and reasoning on this please. From my understanding you should be procing more on weapons, and more on CA's. Your DPS should have gone up in general."In case you didnt notice, Rangers are getting a stun in their agilty AA(it is a range based AA line). So I guess rangers can have 3 stuns, while assassins will be still using their lvl 6 cheapshot.How is that class balancing." - Judged one.Also, I was under the impression that preds got the same AA tree.

Message Edited by LoreLady on 03-07-200611:19 AM

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LoreLady -- the signs posted clearly ask you not to feed our resident troll.

[blurryfast]

paralyzing/freezing strike is a rootgarotte/jugular is a stifle (out of stealth attack)cheap shot only works on certain mobsok, I'm crying . .  .I admit itif you need the stun take the AGI line and get point blank shotthe rangas get the root so they can move back and do what they do best . . .rangedwe need a longer stun so we can do what we do . . .  backstabI couldn't agree more with the thought that you need to learn to play your toon and not just complain about it's shortcomingswe 'sins have plenty, but others do too, sadly part of the game

Message Edited by blurryfast on 03-07-200611:36 AM

[ChaosUndivided]

And just an FYI Point Blank shot works exactly like a 4 second Melee stun, the only difference is it uses a bow firing animation and uses an arrow.

99% of assasins carry bows, if you guys want it, it's only rank 2 which means it would cost 5 AA points to get the most basic level, and if your using it just for the stun, then you wouldn't need a higher rank.

 

It may seem "unfair" to some, but in general the AA tree is more heavily slanted towards assasins anyways with a majority of the tree's and abilities melee ranged or melee orientated.

Message Edited by ChaosUndivided on 03-07-200612:24 PM

[Zodi]

 

 

 

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Sigh, shows you how ignorant some how people are.. However I will have to educate some people.

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Sorry, but if you want to come here and show us how ignorant we are and teach us how thigs really are, then you should at least get your numbers right and quit trying to exagerate on the side of being crippled, because all it does is shows how ignorant you really are....

 

 

Gwern - 67 Assassin - Kithicor

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 Amen brother!

I cant believe that the DEvf actualyl believe that the ranger are broken:

1) They can do all the DPS want at a safe distance VS the rest ofthe scout class who has to be basically in meele.

That just cracks me up. Second all tier1 DPS should be around the same and I knwo for fact everytiem i group with rangers I am doing 3/4 max to their top DPS. explain that

[K'aldar]

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blurryfast wrote:

paralyzing/freezing strike is a rootgarotte/jugular is a stifle (out of stealth attack)

Message Edited by blurryfast on 03-07-200611:36 AM

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paralyzing strike - 12 sec duration - 1min recastjugular - 8 sec duration - 1 min recast (Must be stealthed to cast)cheap shot - 6 sec duration on pure solo mobs, 2 sec on ^,^^,^^^ mobs - 10-20 sec recast(not sure will have to check when i get home)those are from the pure assassin lineup(no AA's).  now on a ^ mob i end up having to use all three, and still end up in yellow/orange at the end of the fight. unless assassinate or killing blade are up to finish it more quickly.  so, in KoS, with their many many ^ mobs for us to solo on, i can only fight one per minute.   i'm not sure how they meant assassins can solo better than rangers, i can't imagine any other dps class doing worse than that.anyway some of ya were asking about real stats to compare for dps wise and what not, so i'll post mine as best as i can remember now, will edit when i get home if need be.lvl 67 Assassin320ish str340ish agi1300 attkonly adept I's 60-70 atmavg group 250-550 dpsnamed w/out KB/assassinate 700-900dpsnamed with killing blade up 800-1k dpsnamed with KB + Assassinate 1k-1300 dpsthe ranger i spoke about before had more str than me i know by a margin of about 20, and adept I's also, lvl 67.avg group 200-450dpsnamed 500-750dpsnamed with adds 1k-1400 dpsas i said before, when there was more than 1-2 mobs the ranger parsed much higher. as for the dps i posted for him there, i have no idea which specials he used, so i apologize for the lack of information there. oh and as for our weapons, we use the same, grizzle bow(quested, not sure on name really), and treasured/legendary pierce/slashers from named in sepulcher and den.

[dea]

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ChaosUndivided wrote:

And just an FYI Point Blank shot works exactly like a 4 second Melee stun, the only difference is it uses a bow firing animation and uses an arrow.

99% of assasins carry bows, if you guys want it, it's only rank 2 which means it would cost 5 AA points to get the most basic level, and if your using it just for the stun, then you wouldn't need a higher rank.

 

It may seem "unfair" to some, but in general the AA tree is more heavily slanted towards assasins anyways with a majority of the tree's and abilities melee ranged or melee orientated.

Message Edited by ChaosUndivided on 03-07-200612:24 PM

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While severely gimping the Assassin, this may be the only choice for a soloing Assassin. There are far more interesting choices for that same Assassin to choose, but none provide the same level of soloing benefit as the stun.As far as AAs being melee oriented, I see this as a shift in SOE thinking since the proc change to require Rangers to engage in increasingly more melee combat and not rely so heavily on sitting safely at range for optimal damage dealing.

[ChaosUndivided]

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deaks wrote:

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ChaosUndivided wrote:

And just an FYI Point Blank shot works exactly like a 4 second Melee stun, the only difference is it uses a bow firing animation and uses an arrow.

99% of assasins carry bows, if you guys want it, it's only rank 2 which means it would cost 5 AA points to get the most basic level, and if your using it just for the stun, then you wouldn't need a higher rank.

 

It may seem "unfair" to some, but in general the AA tree is more heavily slanted towards assasins anyways with a majority of the tree's and abilities melee ranged or melee orientated.

Message Edited by ChaosUndivided on 03-07-200612:24 PM

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While severely gimping the Assassin, this may be the only choice for a soloing Assassin. There are far more interesting choices for that same Assassin to choose, but none provide the same level of soloing benefit as the stun.As far as AAs being melee oriented, I see this as a shift in SOE thinking since the proc change to require Rangers to engage in increasingly more melee combat and not rely so heavily on sitting safely at range for optimal damage dealing.

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I don't understand how is taking 4 Ranks in Agility "Severly Gimping" the assasin?

And regardless of what SoE's thinking is concerned with the AA's they are still favouring one play style (Melee) over another (Ranged) in the AA tree.

And keep in mind, rangers have to spend AA points on useless/unwanted (to us anyways) melee abilities to get Usefull Abilities for us, assasins really aren't losing anything or getting anything "useless" by grabbing Pointblank shot, they only gain.

Message Edited by ChaosUndivided on 03-07-200602:56 PM

[dea]

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ChaosUndivided wrote:

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deaks wrote:

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ChaosUndivided wrote:

And just an FYI Point Blank shot works exactly like a 4 second Melee stun, the only difference is it uses a bow firing animation and uses an arrow.

99% of assasins carry bows, if you guys want it, it's only rank 2 which means it would cost 5 AA points to get the most basic level, and if your using it just for the stun, then you wouldn't need a higher rank.

 

It may seem "unfair" to some, but in general the AA tree is more heavily slanted towards assasins anyways with a majority of the tree's and abilities melee ranged or melee orientated.

---

While severely gimping the Assassin, this may be the only choice for a soloing Assassin. There are far more interesting choices for that same Assassin to choose, but none provide the same level of soloing benefit as the stun.As far as AAs being melee oriented, I see this as a shift in SOE thinking since the proc change to require Rangers to engage in increasingly more melee combat and not rely so heavily on sitting safely at range for optimal damage dealing.

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I don't understand how is taking 4 Ranks in Agility "Severly Gimping" the assasin?

And regardless of what SoE's thinking is concerned with the AA's they are still favouring one play style (Melee) over another (Ranged) in the AA tree.

And keep in mind, rangers have to spend AA points on useless/unwanted (to us anyways) melee abilities to get Usefull Abilities for us, assasins really aren't losing anything or getting anything "useless" by grabbing Pointblank shot, they only gain.

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Your standard Assassin who isn't solo-oriented is most likely going to max out at least one but probably two of the following: Predator, STR 4; Predator, INT 4; Predator, STA 4. Each of those will cost them 20 points out of 49, severely limiting their options to explore other depths. The only thing this Assassin is losing is flexibility of choice; by deciding that the stun from PBShot is a must-have another 5 achievement points are now unavailable in this build. Out of a total 49 available points for acheivement choice, simple high-level planning can already account for at least 45 of those points leaving little room for further customization (again assuming that these depth 4 abilities provide such significant gains that there is little recourse but to concentrate on them, as was the case in Beta and appears to remain true).Most of the depth 2 attacks will be wasted at one time or another (aside from the AGI line) since each one has a weapon requirement (and most dps-oriented Predators will be using a bow). From a DPS perspective, the depth 3 effects also give you no benefit (other than the +health(%) from the Predator, STA 3 for AE survival). I'm not saying that there aren't many achievements in our tree that many will label as useless for one reason or another -- these are not Assassin-only or Ranger-only opinions but plain facts as a DPS class facing weapon restrictions and in light of the defensive concentration for our depth 3 abilities.

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And regardless of what SoE's thinking is concerned with the AA's they are still favouring one play style (Melee) over another (Ranged) in the AA tree.

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Ranger's are a melee class as well, your primary capability is from ranged but there is a not insignificant melee capability as well. Clearly there are some changes to your ranged capability coming downt he pipe that attempt to make up for any dps deficiencies of your class after the proc change, similarly I wouldn't be surprised to see an increasing concentration on the importance of melee engagement in optimizing Ranger damage output.

[dea]

From the LU21 notes on test:Ranger changes:- Leg Shot had its damage increased and no longer has a double chance to dispel when taking damage.- Bleeding Cut's DoT damage has increased.- Steady Aim's reuse timer has been reduced, and it now increases ranged critical hit chances.- Trick Shot had its casting time reduced and damage increased.- Rip had its damage increased.- Miracle Shot had its damage increased.- Lunge was changed from a DoT to a combination melee attack + very short duration root.Is this necessary? I'm not sure any other class has a non-achievement ability that increases their crit chance, much less a class with +22 crit(ranged) as the rank 8 benefit from one of their achievement lines. Its not like this is a permanent buff, but neither does the Focus short duration buff line available to Assassins provide such a benefit.

[blurryfast]

as a '64 I have little trouble soloing yellow^ (solo mobs)I have to watch my aggro range (2 will get me)we do have this thing called concealmentcast concealmentcast cheap shot (this puts you into stealth)cast whateverI also like to use contrived weapon (ad3) to do a little more damage from frontmy style isn't pretty, I end in orange often (and red more than I'd like)  but a win is a winI don't feel that any of us are so broken, we just need to be a little more even, rangas are ranged, 'sins are up close and personalit's all what ya likeif ya hate it so much, re-roll a boring caster

[Crychtonn]

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K'aldar wrote:

paralyzing strike - 12 sec duration - 1min recast

Ranger equivalent skill - Doesn't Exist  (will be added in LU21 with a 4 sec duration 25% the duration of your root you've always had.

jugular - 8 sec duration - 1 min recast (Must be stealthed to cast)

Ranger equivalant skill - Doesn't Exist

cheap shot - 6 sec duration on pure solo mobs, 2 sec on ^,^^,^^^ mobs - 10-20 sec recast(not sure will have to check when i get home)

Same skill ALL scouts are stuck with.

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The only additional Stun a ranger has currently over an assassin is the 4 sec stun on Sniper Shot that can be used once every 15 minutes.

Ranger can at best get off 1-2 ranged shots before being face to face melee with mobs.  And the second attack has to be a fast cast low damage shot to have a chance to get off in time.  After that rangers have Four melee skills they can use face to face on a mob.  Five if they have enough AA points and took PBS.  All of these skills do alot less damage then your assassin frontal melee skills.  Some are being upgraded to be equal in LU21.

Assassins have had a root and stifle since the game came out.  Rangers didn't get a root tell DoF and it's on a 2 minute recast.  You also have to have mobs path near perfectly over it to set it off  (trap got hit hard by the stealth nerf bat in LU20).

 

Assassin DPS is going to jump big once alot of you guys max out your Str AA line anyway.

 

To the assassins here showing some class I thank you.  It's greatly appreciated.

 

[blurryfast]

rangers have the trap CAlooks like a very cool skill to me, and very usablethink we are in the same boat in terms of frontal attacks, but you can't just count the PBS skill, you could take any of them too rank 2 and gain an attack just as we can (not that they are all that great or really worth it)am I counting right, we 'sins have 4 frontal attacks (5 if you count contrived)  and a frontal bow, rest require stealth and/or position(sorry server down, going off a poor memory hehe)

I watch the rangers in my guild (and I think they are extraordinary) and think 'dayum that skill is SO awesome" . . . sniper, miracle, the trap to name 3 . . . stream before nerf was godly . . . I still think rangers are great toons

and after our warlocks were dps'ing 3k in pp:r I'm just giving up on the whole who's #1 crap and just playing my toon the best I can

Message Edited by blurryfast on 03-08-200607:20 AM

[Zodi]

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ChaosUndivided wrote:

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deaks wrote:

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ChaosUndivided wrote:

And just an FYI Point Blank shot works exactly like a 4 second Melee stun, the only difference is it uses a bow firing animation and uses an arrow.

99% of assasins carry bows, if you guys want it, it's only rank 2 which means it would cost 5 AA points to get the most basic level, and if your using it just for the stun, then you wouldn't need a higher rank.

 

It may seem "unfair" to some, but in general the AA tree is more heavily slanted towards assasins anyways with a majority of the tree's and abilities melee ranged or melee orientated.

Message Edited by ChaosUndivided on 03-07-200612:24 PM

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While severely gimping the Assassin, this may be the only choice for a soloing Assassin. There are far more interesting choices for that same Assassin to choose, but none provide the same level of soloing benefit as the stun.As far as AAs being melee oriented, I see this as a shift in SOE thinking since the proc change to require Rangers to engage in increasingly more melee combat and not rely so heavily on sitting safely at range for optimal damage dealing.

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I don't understand how is taking 4 Ranks in Agility "Severly Gimping" the assasin?

And regardless of what SoE's thinking is concerned with the AA's they are still favouring one play style (Melee) over another (Ranged) in the AA tree.

How can you say this when Ranged combat still out do meele in DPS. This is fact, in SOS i have the chance to group with a swashie (61), ranger (60), assassin (61). We were obliterating level 65 mobs and the ranger was the top DPS 4/5 times. No crap no axageration this was fact!!

And keep in mind, rangers have to spend AA points on useless/unwanted (to us anyways) melee abilities to get Usefull Abilities for us, assasins really aren't losing anything or getting anything "useless" by grabbing Pointblank shot, they only gain.

Warriors also have to do the same. For example:

1) STAMINA: Unless the fix the buckler deal this is totally a waste of AA points.

2) INT: To actually gain proficiency on sword we hav eto waste points in the INT stat AA.

I dont think rangers are the only class who has to spend points in order to get somethgin that actually help them. Basically all the classes have to do the same.

Message Edited by ChaosUndivided on 03-07-200602:56 PM

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[ChaosUndivided]

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Zodian wrote:

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ChaosUndivided wrote:

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deaks wrote:

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ChaosUndivided wrote:

And just an FYI Point Blank shot works exactly like a 4 second Melee stun, the only difference is it uses a bow firing animation and uses an arrow.

99% of assasins carry bows, if you guys want it, it's only rank 2 which means it would cost 5 AA points to get the most basic level, and if your using it just for the stun, then you wouldn't need a higher rank.

 

It may seem "unfair" to some, but in general the AA tree is more heavily slanted towards assasins anyways with a majority of the tree's and abilities melee ranged or melee orientated.

Message Edited by ChaosUndivided on 03-07-200612:24 PM

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While severely gimping the Assassin, this may be the only choice for a soloing Assassin. There are far more interesting choices for that same Assassin to choose, but none provide the same level of soloing benefit as the stun.As far as AAs being melee oriented, I see this as a shift in SOE thinking since the proc change to require Rangers to engage in increasingly more melee combat and not rely so heavily on sitting safely at range for optimal damage dealing.

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I don't understand how is taking 4 Ranks in Agility "Severly Gimping" the assasin?

And regardless of what SoE's thinking is concerned with the AA's they are still favouring one play style (Melee) over another (Ranged) in the AA tree.

How can you say this when Ranged combat still out do meele in DPS. This is fact, in SOS i have the chance to group with a swashie (61), ranger (60), assassin (61). We were obliterating level 65 mobs and the ranger was the top DPS 4/5 times. No crap no axageration this was fact!!

Read again bud, I specifically said IN THE AA TREE, regardless of any damage numbers, the amount of AA's in the predator line are proportionally tailored to melee abilites and attacks something that favour assasins over rangers

And keep in mind, rangers have to spend AA points on useless/unwanted (to us anyways) melee abilities to get Usefull Abilities for us, assasins really aren't losing anything or getting anything "useless" by grabbing Pointblank shot, they only gain.

Warriors also have to do the same. For example:

1) STAMINA: Unless the fix the buckler deal this is totally a waste of AA points.

2) INT: To actually gain proficiency on sword we hav eto waste points in the INT stat AA.

I dont think rangers are the only class who has to spend points in order to get somethgin that actually help them. Basically all the classes have to do the same.

I never said rangers are the only class who has to spend points on useless stuff, my point was that as far as AA's are concerned, the Predator tree is slanted towards the Assassin Side of things. Unlike guardians getting crappy buckler abilities they would rarely use, Assassins aren't gaining anything useless going to Agi Rank 2 for PBS, they gain agility which is usefull. Whereas a ranger DOES gain a lot of unwanted/seldom used melee abilities by investing heavily in other lines.

Message Edited by ChaosUndivided on 03-07-200602:56 PM

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[K'aldar]

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Crychtonn wrote:

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K'aldar wrote:

paralyzing strike - 12 sec duration - 1min recast

Ranger equivalent skill - Doesn't Exist  (will be added in LU21 with a 4 sec duration 25% the duration of your root you've always had.

jugular - 8 sec duration - 1 min recast (Must be stealthed to cast)

Ranger equivalant skill - Doesn't Exist

cheap shot - 6 sec duration on pure solo mobs, 2 sec on ^,^^,^^^ mobs - 10-20 sec recast(not sure will have to check when i get home)

Same skill ALL scouts are stuck with.

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The only additional Stun a ranger has currently over an assassin is the 4 sec stun on Sniper Shot that can be used once every 15 minutes.

Ranger can at best get off 1-2 ranged shots before being face to face melee with mobs.  And the second attack has to be a fast cast low damage shot to have a chance to get off in time.  After that rangers have Four melee skills they can use face to face on a mob.  Five if they have enough AA points and took PBS.  All of these skills do alot less damage then your assassin frontal melee skills.  Some are being upgraded to be equal in LU21.

Assassins have had a root and stifle since the game came out.  Rangers didn't get a root tell DoF and it's on a 2 minute recast.  You also have to have mobs path near perfectly over it to set it off  (trap got hit hard by the stealth nerf bat in LU20).

 

Assassin DPS is going to jump big once alot of you guys max out your Str AA line anyway.

 

To the assassins here showing some class I thank you.  It's greatly appreciated.

 

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didn't clarify, jugular is an 8 sec stifle not stun. anywayz you say you don't have a root, yet you mention your trap further down.  besides that, what does a root give us? we have two frontal ranged attacks that do mediocre dmg, then we just wait til the root wears out and go toe to toe with it again.  but roots and stuns aside, as long as you can start your fights with some powerful ranged, you will always at least as good as us until we get some stun that works on ^ mobs for us to flank.  as of now i can't even start fights with a single stealth attack, because of the numerous quantity of close knit aggro mobs in KoS.  so i have to start with ranged, lowering my dps right off the bat.  as for frontal attacks we're in the same boat, and we both wear chain and have comparable stats, so i think we're pretty equal in that aspect.  i'm not saying you shouldn't get that 4 sec root, but don't give the excuse that its because your soloing is worse than ours, like i said a ^ mob can get me down to 20% or lower pretty much everytime, and theres not much else to solo now.fact is, we're in the same boat now, you're getting a boost, we're not.  /shrug I'll just keep waiting then.

[HellRaiserXX]

Pre LU20: I am the top assassin in my guild and we have one main ranger, we both had almost identical equipment at the time.  My DPS, using all of my big hits, everything I could throw in there 800-900DPS, thats at 450STR grp buffed on a non joust mob.  Ranger 1200+ using all his main attacks. Parse showed 45-50% from proc dmg, mine was like 15-20% cant remember.

Post LU20: Both lvl 65, similar equipment.  I did about 900-1k, ranger 700-800. Proc rates were about 25% and 20%.  (Offensive stance is proccing more I have noticed)

As you can see the amount of DPS lost by the ranger is close to 40%, which is good IMO because that is almost all proc damage. In raid situations I am outperforming our ranger 80-90% of the time, when before it was never, the times I did he was just on auto-attack afk lol.

I don't think doing comparisons in a grp situation is worthwhile because stuff dies so fast anyway that it is hard to get accurate parses. Sometimes the rangers out DPS me, sometimes I out DPS them, sometimes the monk beats us all. If I drop a Deathly Strike or FB in there my DPS jumps by 200 easily. You have to do the comparisons in a raid and to date, it will probably be different for each test, in our raids I am the top melee DPS hands down. Our ranger quit playing for awhile cause he couldn't stand sucking like he did.

Their combat abilities arent being increased a lot, but some and it will make up that 200DPS gap between us I think.  As far as soloing goes, I solo fine.  I can take yellow ^ up to 3 lvls ahead of me, but its hard.  The root doesn't break on the first hit, just more often.  I have had it hold long enough to do 2 Assailing Blasts, think thats a 5sec recast. I don't see why everyone is making such a big deal over a 4sec root.  Even with that Rangers are going to have a difficult time soloing. All you assassins who [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about solo ability must not be doing it right cause I do it fine, but it is slow cause my regen time is so long.

pre LU20, I cannot see how any Ranger would complain about their ability to solo.  Solo mobs in DoF were so easy, I could take em to half health with my bow before they even were able to hit me.  In open air zones I would solo ^^^ mobs like nothing. At lvl 57 I would solo the Greater Sabertooths in PoF.  How you say? Bow kiting. After the first proc nerf it took longer and used more arrows, but was still easy.  Now its a waste of time to bow kite.  People [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about not being able to solo heroic stuff, well hate to break it to ya but we aren't supposed to be able to solo heroic stuff.  I know certain classes still can and it really isn't fair, but so what.  If your complaining about not being able to solo heroics be quiet, you aren't supposed to anyway.  If your complaining about not being able to solo solo stuff be quiet cause you obviously don't know how to play an assassin effectively.  The only mobs I have the most trouble soloing are ^ assassin mobs because they get to use my abilities and ones I can't use in a straight-up fight, I usually win, but it is a lot closer.

I am glad Rangers are getting some help now, I like competition.  Before LU20 I was no competition for them, now they aren't any for me.  I would love if every fight we had to work really hard to out perform the other and make each other play the best we can.  Rangers will probably do more DPS than us anyway even if we are balanced because of the AE issue, which will never change.  I was hoping one of our AAs would allow us to avoid 20% of AE dmg or something, but wishful thinking all the way. Having to joust will cut down on our DPS there is not much we can do about it while a Ranger will just be able to sit back and fire away. I have gotten good at timing AEs now so when it goes off I run in hit Concealment and let loose for 15sec then back off and drop some bow damage in there.

Everyone says that you have to be good to play an Assassin because they require a lot more technique than most other classes. Until you can perfect your technique you will suck and it is only because of your lack of ability and not because SOE hates us.  Yes we don't get a lot of attention from the Devs, but I personally don't think I am at all weak or underpowered, and I know I am [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good at what I do. So stop whining about other classes and work on bettering your own class. You will find that some simple changes to the order in which you do your CAs, being able to time AEs, etc can add upwards of 200-300 to your DPS. I know it is true because I was doing 400-500 and then I changed some things and jumped up to 700-800, also got some new equipment which helps.

Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on 03-08-200610:24 AM

[Carna]

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K'aldar wrote:

anyway some of ya were asking about real stats to compare for dps wise and what not, so i'll post mine as best as i can remember now, will edit when i get home if need be.

---

I wasn't asking for real stats (especially not from memory, yours or otherwise). I was asking for a parse. There are parses on the Ranger forum showing Rangers doing significantly less dps than their Assassin peers.... there are claims here by Assassins that according to parses they have this is not the case.... I am asking to see those parses.

Or... no, surely not... were you just making it up?

Assuming your not and the figures you present are accurate, by your own figuring on a named mob you're doing up to 25% more damage than a Ranger.

While we're at it I suppose your Conjuror only does T2 damage too dont they? Surely the disparity of the damage output of a T2 Conjuror compared to an Assassin is of bigger concern and threat to an Assassin who is supposed to be T1 than the nerfed Ranger who is currently doing T2.... or could the fact that you play a Conjuror colour the situation? I personally find it laughable that somebody with a sig of a Conjurorer could argue so strongly against this Ranger fix.

It smacks a bit of "let them eat cake".

[Crychtonn]

LOL K'aldar I didn't even notice that you didn't mention it was a stifle.  But I knew it was and was just pointing out that rangers don't receive a stifle skill.  And yes I know it has stealth and positional requirements.

As for the trap I listed it seperate do to how it works.  Unlike your root skill which is attached to an attack the trap is only good at the beginning of a fight.  The trap has a long cast time (4 or 5 sec's I think but I'll have to check) so trying to put it down in the middle of a fight is extremely hard do to interupts.

I agree with you the trap is a fun skill even with them stealth nerfing the hell out of it in LU20.  In general the skill works the same but they did something with the trigger area.  You need near perfect pathing on the mob now to set it off.  It's pretty sad when I use it in groups and end up having mobs standing on the edge of the trap on both sides and it still doesn't go off   Used to be a great life saver when you got to many adds.  Drop the trap and root half of them then back off and kill the unrooted ones.  Poor trap just isn't the same since LU20

 

I still think you guys should request the Dev's change your root skill to a 2-3 unbreakable stun.  Never really understood why assassins got a root skill to begin with lol.

 

[HellRaiserXX]

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Crychtonn wrote:

I still think you guys should request the Dev's change your root skill to a 2-3 unbreakable stun.  Never really understood why assassins got a root skill to begin with lol.

---

To toss in a bow CA, or I have used it to get by mobs, root em and then run for my life. If it doesn't break you can actually get 2 Assailing Blasts in before it breaks and several auto attacks. I wish Cheap Shot was unbreakable or lasted for 3 sec instead of 2, 3 sec would make all the difference.

[Skratttt]

Lol whoever t hinks Jugular is usefull for soloing is Nuts!!...its a stiffle only meaining mob will be hiting you anyways

My demands would be make Freezing Strike unbreakable, Give Brutal focus +mele crit, Make Neck shot frontal ....then we have better soloing ability

[Crychtonn]

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HellRaiserXX wrote:

---

Crychtonn wrote:

I still think you guys should request the Dev's change your root skill to a 2-3 unbreakable stun.  Never really understood why assassins got a root skill to begin with lol.

---

To toss in a bow CA, or I have used it to get by mobs, root em and then run for my life. If it doesn't break you can actually get 2 Assailing Blasts in before it breaks and several auto attacks. I wish Cheap Shot was unbreakable or lasted for 3 sec instead of 2, 3 sec would make all the difference.

---

Oh I understand how you'd use it.  I'd have been doing the same thing with my ranger if he had a in-combat root all this time.  It just seemed odd they'd give a root to the assassin class instead of a stun when they created it.  Stifle made sense since as an assassin you'd want to mute your victims screams.  Just not sure how a root fits in with the class.

Then again I've always thought it was strange they gave Hail of Steel to swashy's instead of assassins.  Always think of this skill as some ninja guy chain tossing throwing stars.  I've always pictured swashy's using swords and dueling more then chain tossing daggers.

 

[Gorhauth]

Does anybody else feel dirty when those green tights wearing, skipping, tree-huggers invade our forums?  I think I need another shower

[ChaosUndivided]

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Gorhauth wrote:

Does anybody else feel dirty when those green tights wearing, skipping, tree-huggers invade our forums?  I think I need another shower

---

/Prances around assassin forums.:smileytongue:

[judged_one]

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HellRaiserXX wrote:

Pre LU20: I am the top assassin in my guild and we have one main ranger, we both had almost identical equipment at the time.  My DPS, using all of my big hits, everything I could throw in there 800-900DPS, thats at 450STR grp buffed on a non joust mob.  Ranger 1200+ using all his main attacks. Parse showed 45-50% from proc dmg, mine was like 15-20% cant remember.

Post LU20: Both lvl 65, similar equipment.  I did about 900-1k, ranger 700-800. Proc rates were about 25% and 20%.  (Offensive stance is proccing more I have noticed)

As you can see the amount of DPS lost by the ranger is close to 40%, which is good IMO because that is almost all proc damage. In raid situations I am outperforming our ranger 80-90% of the time, when before it was never, the times I did he was just on auto-attack afk lol.

I don't think doing comparisons in a grp situation is worthwhile because stuff dies so fast anyway that it is hard to get accurate parses. Sometimes the rangers out DPS me, sometimes I out DPS them, sometimes the monk beats us all. If I drop a Deathly Strike or FB in there my DPS jumps by 200 easily. You have to do the comparisons in a raid and to date, it will probably be different for each test, in our raids I am the top melee DPS hands down. Our ranger quit playing for awhile cause he couldn't stand sucking like he did.

Their combat abilities arent being increased a lot, but some and it will make up that 200DPS gap between us I think.  As far as soloing goes, I solo fine.  I can take yellow ^ up to 3 lvls ahead of me, but its hard.  The root doesn't break on the first hit, just more often.  I have had it hold long enough to do 2 Assailing Blasts, think thats a 5sec recast. I don't see why everyone is making such a big deal over a 4sec root.  Even with that Rangers are going to have a difficult time soloing. All you assassins who [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about solo ability must not be doing it right cause I do it fine, but it is slow cause my regen time is so long.

pre LU20, I cannot see how any Ranger would complain about their ability to solo.  Solo mobs in DoF were so easy, I could take em to half health with my bow before they even were able to hit me.  In open air zones I would solo ^^^ mobs like nothing. At lvl 57 I would solo the Greater Sabertooths in PoF.  How you say? Bow kiting. After the first proc nerf it took longer and used more arrows, but was still easy.  Now its a waste of time to bow kite.  People [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about not being able to solo heroic stuff, well hate to break it to ya but we aren't supposed to be able to solo heroic stuff.  I know certain classes still can and it really isn't fair, but so what.  If your complaining about not being able to solo heroics be quiet, you aren't supposed to anyway.  If your complaining about not being able to solo solo stuff be quiet cause you obviously don't know how to play an assassin effectively.  The only mobs I have the most trouble soloing are ^ assassin mobs because they get to use my abilities and ones I can't use in a straight-up fight, I usually win, but it is a lot closer.

I am glad Rangers are getting some help now, I like competition.  Before LU20 I was no competition for them, now they aren't any for me.  I would love if every fight we had to work really hard to out perform the other and make each other play the best we can.  Rangers will probably do more DPS than us anyway even if we are balanced because of the AE issue, which will never change.  I was hoping one of our AAs would allow us to avoid 20% of AE dmg or something, but wishful thinking all the way. Having to joust will cut down on our DPS there is not much we can do about it while a Ranger will just be able to sit back and fire away. I have gotten good at timing AEs now so when it goes off I run in hit Concealment and let loose for 15sec then back off and drop some bow damage in there.

Everyone says that you have to be good to play an Assassin because they require a lot more technique than most other classes. Until you can perfect your technique you will suck and it is only because of your lack of ability and not because SOE hates us.  Yes we don't get a lot of attention from the Devs, but I personally don't think I am at all weak or underpowered, and I know I am [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good at what I do. So stop whining about other classes and work on bettering your own class. You will find that some simple changes to the order in which you do your CAs, being able to time AEs, etc can add upwards of 200-300 to your DPS. I know it is true because I was doing 400-500 and then I changed some things and jumped up to 700-800, also got some new equipment which helps.

Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on 03-08-200610:24 AM

---

FYI Most assassins are not [Removed for Content] because they can not DPS well. Pre LU 20 I can usually get with in 100DPS of rangers on raid. And if one of my big attacks are up I can usually out DPS them. Rather it is SOE attitude toward our class.Everytime SOE decided to nerf something, we get hit one way or another. And everytime they give us a boost, they will instantly nerf us somewhere else. It is just silly.As for my earlier statement. Our proc rate + Poison were also nerfed too, altho not as bad as Rangers.But instead of compensating both predator classes, we got no mention again.And for the AA Stun- It is a bow line of AA, so I doubt a lot of assassin will be taking it. Especially if you are a raid assassin.That 5 points are better spend on Proc Crit and Melee Crit.

[K'aldar]

---

Carnagh wrote:

---

K'aldar wrote:

anyway some of ya were asking about real stats to compare for dps wise and what not, so i'll post mine as best as i can remember now, will edit when i get home if need be.

---

I wasn't asking for real stats (especially not from memory, yours or otherwise). I was asking for a parse. There are parses on the Ranger forum showing Rangers doing significantly less dps than their Assassin peers.... there are claims here by Assassins that according to parses they have this is not the case.... I am asking to see those parses.

Or... no, surely not... were you just making it up?

Assuming your not and the figures you present are accurate, by your own figuring on a named mob you're doing up to 25% more damage than a Ranger.

While we're at it I suppose your Conjuror only does T2 damage too dont they? Surely the disparity of the damage output of a T2 Conjuror compared to an Assassin is of bigger concern and threat to an Assassin who is supposed to be T1 than the nerfed Ranger who is currently doing T2.... or could the fact that you play a Conjuror colour the situation? I personally find it laughable that somebody with a sig of a Conjurorer could argue so strongly against this Ranger fix.

It smacks a bit of "let them eat cake".

---

well a few weeks before KoS launched i decided to change my main toon from my 60 conj to my 60 assassin, and haven't updated my sig.  of course conj's do too much dmg, and the nerf that's coming is well deserved. but assassin compared to ranger is different.  we are t1, ranger is t1.  does it matter that it takes groups of mobs for rangers to shine, as it takes a single mob for assassin to really show off? no. whether it was you or someone else, somone stated that you have to know someone's gear to be able to compare parses, so i stated. if you didn't want ot know, easy enough to scroll down one post and ignore. as for the parse, you can believe me or not, doesn't really matter./sigh thank you for hearing me out, even if you don't care for what i have to say.

[dea]

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Crychtonn wrote:

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HellRaiserXX wrote:

---

Crychtonn wrote:

I still think you guys should request the Dev's change your root skill to a 2-3 unbreakable stun.  Never really understood why assassins got a root skill to begin with lol.

---

To toss in a bow CA, or I have used it to get by mobs, root em and then run for my life. If it doesn't break you can actually get 2 Assailing Blasts in before it breaks and several auto attacks. I wish Cheap Shot was unbreakable or lasted for 3 sec instead of 2, 3 sec would make all the difference.

---

Oh I understand how you'd use it.  I'd have been doing the same thing with my ranger if he had a in-combat root all this time.  It just seemed odd they'd give a root to the assassin class instead of a stun when they created it.  Stifle made sense since as an assassin you'd want to mute your victims screams.  Just not sure how a root fits in with the class.

Then again I've always thought it was strange they gave Hail of Steel to swashy's instead of assassins.  Always think of this skill as some ninja guy chain tossing throwing stars.  I've always pictured swashy's using swords and dueling more then chain tossing daggers.

---

Agreed, that was a wierd choice. I mentioned as much during DoF beta but received no response. Not that I would have been pleased to see our +dps buffs going unused while streaming throwing stars, but it would have been a solid follow-up to the first shot at makeshift weapon in DoF beta that required us to use throwing stars.Also agreed that the stun would be far more sensical than a breakable root for an Assassin. Back when a root locked facing that is exactly what Paralyzing Strike was used as, an effective stun.