For those who felt bad for our Ranger counterparts....

Tlaloc · 03-04-2006, 01:18 AM

They have some good news from the Devs....

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=25747#M25747

Now if they would only respond to the few small issues we have...

Lathu

59 Assassin - Befallen

JesseR · 03-04-2006, 02:14 AM

since when have they looked at class balance, from the melee patch rangers were way more dps than assassins. and now all the sudden they are nerfed and they need to adjust for 'balance'?!

twiddlethumb · 03-04-2006, 02:15 AM

I'm happy for our counterparts SMILEY

This made my eyebrows wander across my forehead though: "Soloing for a Ranger is generally difficult because they are at a tactical disadvantage for having less melee combat arts than Assassins"

JesseR · 03-04-2006, 02:17 AM

yeah pre-nerf they could solo roost LOL

Eynki · 03-04-2006, 06:47 PM

Shoot...they get a unbreakable root that allows them to fire 2 ranged CA's?

Man i wish we got a second stun or a unresistable or unbreakable stun to allow us to fire off a few flanking/ back stabbs

dea · 03-05-2006, 12:48 AM

Eynki wrote:
Shoot...they get a unbreakable root that allows them to fire 2 ranged CA's?

Man i wish we got a second stun or a unresistable or unbreakable stun to allow us to fire off a few flanking/ back stabbs

We never really got any dev attention for our 3 frontal DoTs, two of which have no real character. I'm a bit disappointed to see Ranger's getting the capability necessary to make use of their heavy damage ranged arts (by having one of their character-less frontal DD attacks changed) while we continue to have difficulty making use of our heavy damage positional/stealth attacks. I'm not saying that we don't have considerable auto-attack damage to help offset this, I'm just pointing out that we continue to have many of our heavy damage attacks that remain difficult to use while Rangers are handed access to their heavy damage attacks.I actually think Assassin's do very well in most circumstances, it is when the battle turns into a toe-to-toe slugfest that our options boil down to glorified auto-attackers and the majority of our other attacks become almost completely unuseable.

Yadylia · 03-05-2006, 03:13 AM

Hmm we were supposed to feel bad for them? sorry but I feel bad for us, and even more now, dang rangers lol. I fail to see where they were having a harder time soloing then us with their combat speed and long range attacks, I've always seen rangers soloing mobs higher level then them, kiting (even with the bow skills nerf) thing I can rarely do as an assassin, and if I do I have to use my best attack (assassin's blade) and then wait for the 3 minutes reuse timer.

First let me mention my assassin is only level 25 (and on a pvp server) so I'm not sure how the class does at higher levels. So far I have ONE good attack, Assassin's blade, and Ebon blade is not too far behind, and thats about it. My frontal aoe attack is totally useless because you have to be in stealth to use it and it takes too long to cast, so most the time I cant stay in stealth long enough to use it (with a group hitting me, and its hard even with a solo mob). We have ONE stun with a rather long timer, we can't use it 2 times during a fight unless its a pretty long fight, which you usually dont want as an assassin. We can't take groups unless they are very weak and even then I get hurt, especially if the group is more then 2 mobs (again it might be due to my lack of skill still I dont know). Also as someone mentioned our dots are pretty lame generally.

Briefly my necro and my shadowknight are much much stronger then my assassin, my sk can take groups even blue heroics unless they are very strong (my assassin couldnt even think of doing that), not to mention HT, my necro can also take heroics but mainly green ones, and both these classes are much faster to level then my assassin.

So feeling sorry for rangers? nope not really. And now I'm just hoping they will take a better look at the assassin class and solve some of the issues, the aoe frontal among other things. And don't take away my bow attacks I like them too SMILEY

P.S. in despite of all the issues I still like the class because it is a fun class to play generally.

Message Edited by Yadylia on 03-04-200602:19 PM

Skratttt · 03-05-2006, 04:08 AM

I felt bad for rangers....and lol the Devs changed EXACTLY what i said was wrong......(read my old post on Class balance Vs weapon delay) and then upgraded like i said they had

HAHAHA ...ok then Devs..i want Assassins to be able to instakill any mob in game on a 1 day refresh SMILEY *wishfull thinking

This change is GOOOD...means our bow auto atack goes up too meaning higher dps for mobs we joust.....

LoreLady · 03-05-2006, 06:41 AM

I have always felt bad for assassins - espessally after we were doing so much damage. I realize assassins need to be looked at, and there damage increased. This isent news for me. I have always felt that every pred should be online with sorcs without having to touch poisons (anyone who wants me to explain my reasoning feel free to debate me).This is comming from a ranger if its any help.

prochu · 03-05-2006, 09:12 AM

this is stupid rangers have been doing 1700 dps meanwhile assassin was doing 1k ALL DOF(6 months or so ) and now in ONE WEEK that rangers have been doing only a bit lesser than assassin they have been bosted and assassin should fell good?????LOL NO

rangers should be doing lesser dps than assassin because they can avoid AES and asassins cant ( soe could have given us an skill to block AE or something but no soe is very focused on ranger and assassin dont exist for soe )

Carna · 03-05-2006, 12:34 PM

Ranger were completely broken with lu20 as in they couldn't perform their roll at all. I'm not sure some of you realise just how badly they got nerfed.... you need to lay off the spite just a little. It paints you in a very bad light. You're currently kings of Scout dps and all you have is yet more vitriol?

K'aldar · 03-05-2006, 02:15 PM

i have an equal lvl ranger to my assassin (lvl 65) in my guild that post lu20 and before this patch could still outparse anyone on group mobs, and be in the top 3 in single target dps. now seeing as i could outparse him on single target, it seems fair don't ya think? and yet now they're getting a boost..

devil_hunter · 03-05-2006, 08:50 PM

can anyone tell me why i should feel bad because of rangers?rangers where the T1 dps melee/range class before LU20. when raiding in court of al afaz the ranger made nearly 1million dmg (whole zone of course) and me as an assassine not nearly the half of it.ranger can stay out of AE without worrying getting hit. they stay back, hit auto attack, when timer is up they shoot their spells at the mob.no, i don´t understand this why they should get a boost again. SOE said they get fixed/nerfed (call whatever u want) and that´s how it should stay right now.why are those a.......... listening when the rangers are drying on how they get/got nerfed and no one listens to the assassins.maybe we assassins should cry too as much as the rangers. but hey, we are no babies who need to cry, we know how to play our class, if u rangers can´t play ur class after LU20 let ur char die and make a new one.this is soooooooo stupid useless and insane what SOE is doing :smileymad::robotmad::manmad::womanmad:

Eynki · 03-05-2006, 10:32 PM

deaks wrote:
Eynki wrote:
Shoot...they get a unbreakable root that allows them to fire 2 ranged CA's?

Man i wish we got a second stun or a unresistable or unbreakable stun to allow us to fire off a few flanking/ back stabbs
We never really got any dev attention for our 3 frontal DoTs, two of which have no real character. I'm a bit disappointed to see Ranger's getting the capability necessary to make use of their heavy damage ranged arts (by having one of their character-less frontal DD attacks changed) while we continue to have difficulty making use of our heavy damage positional/stealth attacks. I'm not saying that we don't have considerable auto-attack damage to help offset this, I'm just pointing out that we continue to have many of our heavy damage attacks that remain difficult to use while Rangers are handed access to their heavy damage attacks.I actually think Assassin's do very well in most circumstances, it is when the battle turns into a toe-to-toe slugfest that our options boil down to glorified auto-attackers and the majority of our other attacks become almost completely unuseable.

I agree 100% we need some type of utility that alows us to use our big guns like ranges do while soloing. I think we should get the same thing the do in this. we should get a ability that allows us to get behind the mob and fire off 2 stealth attacks. it is only fair dont you think.

We really should make some noise about this since that seems the only way to get things fixed or resolved.

LoreLady · 03-05-2006, 11:57 PM

Sigh, shows you how ignorant some how people are.. However I will have to educate some people.In a typical group an assassin will do 300-650 extdps, wizard typically around the same, conj, usually around 250-500, bard usually around 200-350 etc.Now a ranger who is supost to be Tier one dps is currently doing 150-250 ext dps because of the current patch.Now, I have all adept 3's or masters. and i will list off my own abilities - feel free to compare it to your own and perhaps you will see why we are bugged.Debilitating arrow level 48 - adept 3 504-840, decreases parry/deflection by 40 (ranged) 1 min recast, 1.5 castCulling of the weak level 57 - adept 3. 803,1339 dmg, Back ranged attack 1.5 sec cast 1 min recast (ranged)- Can be used while movingTripple arrow level 56 adept 3 - 134-224, 264 - 449, 404 674. 1 min recast 1.5 sec cast (this used to be our strongest attack with poisons) (ranged)Precise shot level 58 adept 3 - 193 - 322, 193-322. 20 second recast. 1 second cast (this was used in combination with tripple arrow to typiccally do the hundred proc hit SMILEY

) (ranged)Stealthy fire master level 56 master 2 - 1519-253. Must be stealthed. 1 min 30 second recast, 3 second cast. (ranged)Confusion arrow level 52 - adept 3. 409 damage - 1 min recast, 1.5 second cast . On successfull melee attack this spell will cast "blamed" on target (increases hate gain by 30%, lasts 10 seconds - im not even sure if these secondary ability works, I have no means to test this out) (ranged)Miracle arrow level 46 - adept 3. 467 1 min recast, 1.5 second cast. - this ability does not require a line of sight to hit a mob (ranged)Snaring shot level 58 - master 1. 201-355, slows target by 67%, 10% chance to break. 20 second recast, 1 second cast.(ranged)Snipers shot level 57 - adept 3. 3519 - 5866, 4 second stun, knockback,stifle. 15 min recast, 5 second cast(ranged)Storm of arrows level 50 - adept 3. 1096- 1828 Encounter AE, 3 minute recast, 2 second cast (ranged)(can be used while moving)Natural selection level 47 - adept 3. 540 - 900 AE (must be stealthed to use), 1 minute recast, 3 second cast (can be used while moving) (ranged)(I dont have the updated version yet)Stream of arrows level 55 - adept 3. 370 - 618 consistant damage every 1.5 seconds, roots caster in place - can not move or cast any abilities while this ability is being used, can not be used in melee range. 30 second recast, instant cast (ranged) (Currently bugged)Longshank level 50 - adept 3 270-450 10 sec recast, .5 sec cast. Applies stealth to caster (melee)Blazing thrust level 43 - adept 3 180-300 10 sec recast, .5 sec cast(melee)Dire blade level 52- adept 3. 902-1504 1 min recst .5 sec cast (must be in stealth, back attack) (melee)Fatal Reminder level 54 - adept 3. 107 dmg instantly and every 4 seconds, 40-67 melee damage on target. 36 sec duration, 30 second recast, .5 sec cast (dot) (melee)Tear level 44 - adept 3. 299 damage, summons a single arrow uppon attack (melee) (have not updated this yet)Lunging blade level 55 - adept 3. 82-137 damage on target 74-124 damage instantly and every 4 seconds. 24 sec duration, 20 second recast, .5 sec cast (dot) (melee)Tangleflame level 49 - adept 3. 379 - 633 damage 10 second recast, .5 second cast. (Must be in stealth to use, may be used from the front) (melee)Foresters noose level 51 - adept 3. Decreases heat resistance by 1428, snares target for 56%.. 5% chance of breaking (may be used while moving)20 second recast. .5 second cast. 24 second duration (form of solo util)Thorny trap level 52 - adept 3. 2 min duration of trap (not root), 3 min recast. (%age of root breaking unknown, duration of root unknown.) (this ability is currently bugged)Backup quiver adept 3 - summons 45 arrowsImproved surviel level 56 - master 1. Decreases threat by 876- 1460 - Grants stealth to the caster 1 second cast, 30 second recast (ability may be used while moving)Snipe level 50 - adept 3 decreases defense of target by 32. .5 second cast, 20 second recast, 36 second duration (may be used while moving, and at semi ranged)Shroud of the forest level 56 - adept 3. Increases agil by 60, increases attack speed of caster by 33%, increases incombat move speed by 7% - perminant ability, takes up 1 concentration slot.Brutal Instinct - level 54 adept 3. Increases DPS by 75%, 34 ranged. 36 second duration, .5 second cast. 5 min recast (great emergacy dps button, espessally in solo)Focus fire level 50 - adept 3. Increases attack speed by 63%, increases DPS by 72%, increases ranged by 184, decreases piercing/slashing by 150. 10 second duration (all this only works on auto attack - actually semi useless ability, but good for an extra 2-3 shots) 1 sec cast. 1 min 30 second recast.Primal agility level 52 adept 3, Decreases hate gain by 39% (perminant ability, takes up one concentration slot)Archers frenzy level 59 adept 3. 30% chance to proc 359 damage(ranged only) increases slash/pierce/ranged by 37. Decreases defense by 17.7(offensive)Dance of the leaves - level 46, adept 3. Increases agil by 50, increases parry by 29, increases defense by 39. Decreases pierce/slash by 19.3(defensive)Now you have a compleate list of most abilitys to 60, I do realize that I dont have everything upgraded but when I get a cheap vanadium/pearl i'll edit this post. If you look at the offensive ranged attacks, there are several attacks that only do 400 damage max, and our stronger abilities that do about 1k damage max, and our biggest abilities dont even come close to assassins, wizards, or warlocks. I have 174 str, and 298 agil in my offensive stance self buffed (dont turn this into a str vs agil debate please). Now look at your own abilities and compare, then tell me things dont need to be changed.These are actuall figures comming from an actuall person, I do realize figures on damage changes from person to person depending on str, level, quality of spell. And I hope I have given assassins (and others) enough information to know why we are getting a boost. And, I do realize I have not listed some spells - like evade, cheapshot, honed reflex's, bounty. Simply because any assassin can look at there own abilities to see what they get. If anyone has any questions PM me or write on this forum. If you wish to continue this debate, I will get a friend to list me all of his abilities then write it down on this forum and make a comparison to end some of the statements I have heard in the above posters (some people really truely cant think or understand before they post/speak).If anyone thinks that an ability is overpowered to the assassin lines - i'll be happy to get you to see my point of view.

Carna · 03-06-2006, 05:07 AM

K'aldar wrote:i have an equal lvl ranger to my assassin (lvl 65) in my guild that post lu20 and before this patch could still outparse anyone on group mobs, and be in the top 3 in single target dps. now seeing as i could outparse him on single target, it seems fair don't ya think? and yet now they're getting a boost..

I feel quite confident in saying that is simply a lie.

Eynki · 03-06-2006, 06:33 AM

Carnagh wrote:
K'aldar wrote:i have an equal lvl ranger to my assassin (lvl 65) in my guild that post lu20 and before this patch could still outparse anyone on group mobs, and be in the top 3 in single target dps. now seeing as i could outparse him on single target, it seems fair don't ya think? and yet now they're getting a boost..
I feel quite confident in saying that is simply a lie.

I am quite comfortable sayig it is not a lie.

I experience similar findings when grouping with ranger guild mates, and find when we get into parsing wars that they can still match my dps (about 500 - 700) consistently. when all my abilities are up i can get to about 900-1100 dps but dont know what he will get if all his abilitis are up. i just know the everyday run of the mll fight.

K'aldar · 03-06-2006, 09:17 AM

yeah Eynki that's what i'm finding. seems with their specials up they can outparse anyone in aoe, while i can outparse anyone in single target with specials. all seemed fair to me.

Aienaa · 03-06-2006, 03:24 PM

Now a ranger who is supost to be Tier one dps is currently doing 150-250 ext dps because of the current patch.

Ok, I know this is total BS... We have 2 Rangers in my guild and I group with them all the time and thier damage is at a minimum of 3 times what you posted here (450 - 750) in just normal groups... I parse all the time to check how my DPS is with different group settings and varying amounts of strength... I also compare other group members....

You know, when the changes first happened and Rangers began to cry, I asked one of the Rangers in my guild what kind of DPS they were getting while soloing... The answer I got was around 800, which is quite a bit higher than mine unless I use my CAs on the 5 min and 15 min timers....

I find it amusing that when I am in tank mode, where I sacrifice some of my Strength for Mitigation and Agility gear in order to tank, that my DPS is still within the range that you posted Assassin DPS as, and above that of a Ranger.... When I am in Tank Mode, I generally parse around 450 DPS.... Now get this, the majority of this is from AUTO-ATTACK.... Because when I am tanking, I loose the ability to use at least 60% of my CAs... All 5 of my flanking / stealth attacks are useless because of being in front of the mob... My 3 Bow CAs are useless because I am tanking and it's impossible to use ranged CAs.... Yet your trying to tell me that a unrestrained Ranger can't even do equal to my damage while I am tanking??

Last point.... Any Predator class can exceede the 125-250 DPS you listed by just simply putting yourself in auto-attack mode and never hitting a CA at all.... We all use the same equipment, the same weapons, the same poisons.... So, if it's not the CA, it must be something else....

I have 174 str, and 298 agil in my offensive stance self buffed (dont turn this into a str vs agil debate please).

This has nothing to do with Str vs. Agi, but you do know that your Auto-Attack and CA damage is based on Strength, right??

Most Rangers and Assassins that are around level 60 have a Strength near or above 300 (without buffs), so yours being around half of that explains why your DPS is lower.... If you choose to increase your Agility over increasing your Strength, do not complain when your damage is lower than thoes who choose to increase Strenght over Agility

Do you also realize that Int effects your poison damage and Proc damage?

Sigh, shows you how ignorant some how people are.. However I will have to educate some people.

Sorry, but if you want to come here and show us how ignorant we are and teach us how thigs really are, then you should at least get your numbers right and quit trying to exagerate on the side of being crippled, because all it does is shows how ignorant you really are....

Gwern - 67 Assassin - Kithicor

Demonskill · 03-06-2006, 10:16 PM

-Soloing for a Ranger is generally difficult because they are at a tactical disadvantage for having less melee combat arts than Assassins. Their 'Lunge' combat art line was a melee attack + DoT, which really did not offer anything different than their 'Bleeding Cut' line. 'Lunge' is now changed into a melee attack + very short duration unbreakable Root, so that the Ranger can back away and get up to two more ranged combat arts in while soloing.

When did we have upper hand on soloing? i thought ranger has been greater soloing than us all the time...

BTW what pisses me off, is that they nerf us and we've been below where we are for the whole year, now only 1 patch and they talk about balancing? i don't feel any loves to assassin still at all.

Demonskill · 03-06-2006, 10:31 PM

In a typical group an assassin will do 300-650 extdps, wizard typically around the same, conj, usually around 250-500, bard usually around 200-350 etc.Now a ranger who is supost to be Tier one dps is currently doing 150-250 ext dps because of the current patch.

I've been parsing every chance that i can have. I've seen rangers and assassin in my group doing uber 150-200 dps and being level 60 (im serious, they do exist). 1 thing in common tho, they got 150ish str. It does not make the 3x dps difference, but at the same time, predator is a class that requires SKILL to play, not BUTTON MESHER. If that is how you have been playing ur ranger the last 60 levels, guess it's the poison that helps u do the DPS, not ur skill. Whereas having constant nerf on assassin, we find our own way of making combos and get our DPS up by actually spending time to learn our recast time, learn nature of the skill and what to use what not in what circumstances. If i mesh everything in 1 fight and do [Removed for Content] dps the next fight im not a good assassin.

In conclusion, it comes down to how good of a player you are. how well u know ur class. button mesher is for mage, not predator

Note: whenever i see those 200dps predator player, i seriously wanna tell them, my auto attack dps is doing more than u

LoreLady · 03-06-2006, 11:06 PM

Aienaa To your first comment - you do realize I posted ExtDPS. there is a diffrence. I can pull off one snipers shot, and have the fight last 10 seconds and say i do 900 dps. Fact is, thats not accurate, so I prefer extdps.To your second comment - my original post was intended to show people why rangers are getting a boost to be onpar with assassins. And in order to scale my abilities with someone elses, they need a STR scale to compare there own to."

Sorry, but if you want to come here and show us how ignorant we are and teach us how thigs really are, then you should at least get your numbers right and quit trying to exagerate on the side of being crippled, because all it does is shows how ignorant you really are..." - Some posts I have seen in this fourm"

this is stupid rangers have been doing 1700 dps meanwhile assassin was doing 1k ALL DOF(6 months or so ) and now in ONE WEEK that rangers have been doing only a bit lesser than assassin they have been bosted and assassin should fell good?????LOL NO

rangers should be doing lesser dps than assassin because they can avoid AES and asassins cant ( soe could have given us an skill to block AE or something but no soe is very focused on ranger and assassin dont exist for soe )" - prov

"i have an equal lvl ranger to my assassin (lvl 65) in my guild that post lu20 and before this patch could still outparse anyone on group mobs, and be in the top 3 in single target dps. now seeing as i could outparse him on single target, it seems fair don't ya think? and yet now they're getting a boost."

These posts in particular are what im pointing out to - not the entire assassin community.

Tlaloc · 03-06-2006, 11:56 PM

Hmm, the original intent of my post was just to inform the community that dev's did identify an issue with rangers and they are adjusting combat arts and giving them an additional root to help them in soloing which I believe all is good for that class as they should be on par with assassins. I am sorry that this turned into a flaming war.... To reference some of my original comments about the LU 20 changes I never believed that SoE nerfed rangers. They made changes to a poorly designed proc mechanics that allowed rangers to proc insanely and do extreme DPS. Rangers and assassins both took advantage of this flawed proc mechanic to maximize their DPS but ranger CA's and bow cast times allowed them to take better advantage of it. The end result was an additional 30 - 50% DPS from procs alone. The changes in the proc system brought to light the real issue which was ranger CA's were underpowered and SoE is now making the appropiate adjustments to bring them in line with Assassins.

Ps: to Deaks and Skratt who always have well thought out and constructive replies as well as many other assassins SMILEY

Lathu

61 Assassin - Befallen

Message Edited by Tlalocnj on 03-06-200601:59 PM

Verlaine · 03-07-2006, 12:20 AM

I was watching a parse last night, for the most part me and the ranger were pretty much even. Granted when I completely opened up on a named and reached 825dps. For the most part we were both staying right around 450-550. I don't know if he ever opened up and went all out, but we were pretty even most of the time. The biggest thing that bugs me is that I typically see this. I don't see where people are claiming to only be doing 300dps vs assassin 500dps. The only thing I can come up with is either I have been grouping with the best of the ranger class or the classes are indeed balanced. As to the upgrades they are getting thats great for them, atleast on a solo ascpect, but up our cheap shot so we can now solo just as easily. Since if there is even a little lag spike we will not get off our stealthed atk.

Verlaine 53 assassin

LoreLady · 03-07-2006, 12:46 AM

Nice post tlalcnj - It wasent my intention to continue the flamewar. Only to post on why we are getting our combat abilitys updated, As for my personal opinion, it doesnt matter to me if we get the extra root or not.I also get tired of mere opinions instead of numbers - another reason I put the original post up, give some facts.

Aienaa · 03-07-2006, 03:22 AM

Aienaa To your first comment - you do realize I posted ExtDPS. there is a diffrence. I can pull off one snipers shot, and have the fight last 10 seconds and say i do 900 dps. Fact is, thats not accurate, so I prefer extdps.

I would have to say that Epic X4 mobs gives you a pretty good idea what kind of DPS a class can put out, not just 1 Epic X4, but a lot of them... Somehow I seriously doubt that a ranger is going pull off 1 sniper shot and do 900 DPS as the fights last minutes, not seconds... Fact is, the numbers stand up....

To your second comment - my original post was intended to show people why rangers are getting a boost to be onpar with assassins. And in order to scale my abilities with someone elses, they need a STR scale to compare there own to.

You can not compare your DPS with the Str that you have to someone else that has much higher Str and say that is the reason that you need a DPS boost... Fact is that Assassins and Ranger with similar stats do similiar DPS, it just takes the right gear and the right amount of skill to be able to put out the higher DPS...

Gwern - 67 Assassin / Nilla - 66 Alchemist

Carna · 03-07-2006, 10:04 AM

You chaps do realise that if they're left where they are, once any level betrayal comes out the Assassin population is simply going to double don't you?

Those Assassins claiming the current Ranger is observed to do the same dps in parses, could you post a couple of parses?

LoreLady · 03-07-2006, 08:56 PM

"I would have to say that Epic X4 mobs gives you a pretty good idea what kind of DPS a class can put out, not just 1 Epic X4, but a lot of them... Somehow I seriously doubt that a ranger is going pull off 1 sniper shot and do 900 DPS as the fights last minutes, not seconds... Fact is, the numbers stand up..." - those numbers still come from a compleatly debuffed mob, on a typical raiddebuffed mob, theres a swashy and brigand there debuffing all its melee to near 0. Not to mention general haste from enchanters, bards etc, considering rangers and other dps are typicaccly places in DPS groups to boost dps. The numbers give out diffrent readings as if you were grouped."You can not compare your DPS with the Str that you have to someone else that has much higher Str and say that is the reason that you need a DPS boost... Fact is that Assassins and Ranger with similar stats do similiar DPS, it just takes the right gear and the right amount of skill to be able to put out the higher DPS..."Its not Str im debaiting, its general abilities. Ranged abilities are supost to be our most powerfull attacks, and if many of them only do 400 damage, theres a problem.And yes I can compare. Now, here is a wizard comparison.http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=18860Assassin skill tree http://whisperlands.homedns.org:336/Games/EQ2/assassin-skilltable-screenshots.htmlAssassins in general get several abilities that do well over 2k hits, dots that do 300 damage easilly, rangers dont. THAT is why I posted my own abilities.Edit - And I will bring out my own parses later today.

Message Edited by LoreLady on 03-07-200607:57 AM

Message Edited by LoreLady on 03-07-200607:58 AM

Saihung23 · 03-07-2006, 09:08 PM

All I know is what I experience when I play. I dont know what the assassin experience is...I dont play them. Rangers post LU20 were not impossible to play, but they were impossible to play effectively. Solo'ing was either a practice in how to use evac or it was a funeral every other time. This is concerning even con no arrow mobs. Argue if you want, that was/is the reality for me. I have all imbued equip., adept 1 minimum on all ca's.

But you know what...it doesnt matter...what matters isnt what my experience was, it is what the developer's experience was that is important.

And apparently the dev's saw fit to fix the deficiencies they themselves found.

I do think that assassins should get something akin to the "unbreakable root" (4 seconds btw) rangers have coming to them. I think a unresistable stun or something is what you guys need. I wholly support assassins in the desire for a change like that for them. I think it not only fair but necessary.

But that is my opinion. Let us hope that the dev's see it that way as well.

Saihung (sorry for the forum invasion SMILEY

Fallen · 03-07-2006, 10:07 PM

Being pure bred killers, (the only role that I can think of at this time), assassins need not to worry about dps. I think, and maybe I'm just saying this because I'm a assassin myself, we will one day rule dps classes totally and everyone will seek us with no arguments. I'm only saying this again for because for one our dps is gigantic in any group without aoe's. and 2 our class name promises that we will live up to up! Kill. Thats all we do so like it or not our day will come where we will be know for what are class name say's we do.

Btw class names are so you get a ideal what that class does. And throwing darts will only put someones eye out SMILEY Dam Rangers. I'm tired of looting your spell drops!

03-04-2006, 02:15 AM	#3
twiddlethumb Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 43	I'm happy for our counterparts This made my eyebrows wander across my forehead though: "Soloing for a Ranger is generally difficult because they are at a tactical disadvantage for having less melee combat arts than Assassins" __________________ Boswachter Assassin

03-04-2006, 06:47 PM	#5
Eynki Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 90	Shoot...they get a unbreakable root that allows them to fire 2 ranged CA's? Man i wish we got a second stun or a unresistable or unbreakable stun to allow us to fire off a few flanking/ back stabbs __________________ Raevix - 70 Assassin Bael - 70 Troublador Eynki - 56 Conjuror "Dark Horizon" Bazzar server

03-05-2006, 12:48 AM	#6
dea Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 427	Eynki wrote: Shoot...they get a unbreakable root that allows them to fire 2 ranged CA's? Man i wish we got a second stun or a unresistable or unbreakable stun to allow us to fire off a few flanking/ back stabbs We never really got any dev attention for our 3 frontal DoTs, two of which have no real character. I'm a bit disappointed to see Ranger's getting the capability necessary to make use of their heavy damage ranged arts (by having one of their character-less frontal DD attacks changed) while we continue to have difficulty making use of our heavy damage positional/stealth attacks. I'm not saying that we don't have considerable auto-attack damage to help offset this, I'm just pointing out that we continue to have many of our heavy damage attacks that remain difficult to use while Rangers are handed access to their heavy damage attacks.I actually think Assassin's do very well in most circumstances, it is when the battle turns into a toe-to-toe slugfest that our options boil down to glorified auto-attackers and the majority of our other attacks become almost completely unuseable.

03-05-2006, 03:13 AM	#7
Yadylia Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 58	Hmm we were supposed to feel bad for them? sorry but I feel bad for us, and even more now, dang rangers lol. I fail to see where they were having a harder time soloing then us with their combat speed and long range attacks, I've always seen rangers soloing mobs higher level then them, kiting (even with the bow skills nerf) thing I can rarely do as an assassin, and if I do I have to use my best attack (assassin's blade) and then wait for the 3 minutes reuse timer. First let me mention my assassin is only level 25 (and on a pvp server) so I'm not sure how the class does at higher levels. So far I have ONE good attack, Assassin's blade, and Ebon blade is not too far behind, and thats about it. My frontal aoe attack is totally useless because you have to be in stealth to use it and it takes too long to cast, so most the time I cant stay in stealth long enough to use it (with a group hitting me, and its hard even with a solo mob). We have ONE stun with a rather long timer, we can't use it 2 times during a fight unless its a pretty long fight, which you usually dont want as an assassin. We can't take groups unless they are very weak and even then I get hurt, especially if the group is more then 2 mobs (again it might be due to my lack of skill still I dont know). Also as someone mentioned our dots are pretty lame generally. Briefly my necro and my shadowknight are much much stronger then my assassin, my sk can take groups even blue heroics unless they are very strong (my assassin couldnt even think of doing that), not to mention HT, my necro can also take heroics but mainly green ones, and both these classes are much faster to level then my assassin. So feeling sorry for rangers? nope not really. And now I'm just hoping they will take a better look at the assassin class and solve some of the issues, the aoe frontal among other things. And don't take away my bow attacks I like them too P.S. in despite of all the issues I still like the class because it is a fun class to play generally. Message Edited by Yadylia on 03-04-200602:19 PM

03-05-2006, 04:08 AM	#8
Skratttt Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 375	I felt bad for rangers....and lol the Devs changed EXACTLY what i said was wrong......(read my old post on Class balance Vs weapon delay) and then upgraded like i said they had HAHAHA ...ok then Devs..i want Assassins to be able to instakill any mob in game on a 1 day refresh *wishfull thinking This change is GOOOD...means our bow auto atack goes up too meaning higher dps for mobs we joust.....

03-04-2006, 01:18 AM	#1
Tlaloc Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 20	They have some good news from the Devs.... http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=25747#M25747 Now if they would only respond to the few small issues we have... Lathu 59 Assassin - Befallen

03-04-2006, 02:14 AM	#2
JesseR Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 10	since when have they looked at class balance, from the melee patch rangers were way more dps than assassins. and now all the sudden they are nerfed and they need to adjust for 'balance'?!

03-04-2006, 02:17 AM	#4
JesseR Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 10	yeah pre-nerf they could solo roost LOL

03-05-2006, 06:41 AM	#9
LoreLady Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,039	I have always felt bad for assassins - espessally after we were doing so much damage. I realize assassins need to be looked at, and there damage increased. This isent news for me. I have always felt that every pred should be online with sorcs without having to touch poisons (anyone who wants me to explain my reasoning feel free to debate me).This is comming from a ranger if its any help. __________________ RIP Oakleaf 1949-2006

03-05-2006, 09:12 AM	#10
prochu General Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 32	this is stupid rangers have been doing 1700 dps meanwhile assassin was doing 1k ALL DOF(6 months or so ) and now in ONE WEEK that rangers have been doing only a bit lesser than assassin they have been bosted and assassin should fell good?????LOL NO rangers should be doing lesser dps than assassin because they can avoid AES and asassins cant ( soe could have given us an skill to block AE or something but no soe is very focused on ranger and assassin dont exist for soe )

03-05-2006, 12:34 PM	#11
Carna Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 515	Ranger were completely broken with lu20 as in they couldn't perform their roll at all. I'm not sure some of you realise just how badly they got nerfed.... you need to lay off the spite just a little. It paints you in a very bad light. You're currently kings of Scout dps and all you have is yet more vitriol?

03-05-2006, 02:15 PM	#12
K'aldar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 378	i have an equal lvl ranger to my assassin (lvl 65) in my guild that post lu20 and before this patch could still outparse anyone on group mobs, and be in the top 3 in single target dps. now seeing as i could outparse him on single target, it seems fair don't ya think? and yet now they're getting a boost.. __________________

03-05-2006, 08:50 PM	#13
devil_hunter Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 28	can anyone tell me why i should feel bad because of rangers?rangers where the T1 dps melee/range class before LU20. when raiding in court of al afaz the ranger made nearly 1million dmg (whole zone of course) and me as an assassine not nearly the half of it.ranger can stay out of AE without worrying getting hit. they stay back, hit auto attack, when timer is up they shoot their spells at the mob.no, i don´t understand this why they should get a boost again. SOE said they get fixed/nerfed (call whatever u want) and that´s how it should stay right now.why are those a.......... listening when the rangers are drying on how they get/got nerfed and no one listens to the assassins.maybe we assassins should cry too as much as the rangers. but hey, we are no babies who need to cry, we know how to play our class, if u rangers can´t play ur class after LU20 let ur char die and make a new one.this is soooooooo stupid useless and insane what SOE is doing :smileymad::robotmad::manmad::womanmad:

03-05-2006, 10:32 PM	#14
Eynki Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 90	deaks wrote: Eynki wrote: Shoot...they get a unbreakable root that allows them to fire 2 ranged CA's? Man i wish we got a second stun or a unresistable or unbreakable stun to allow us to fire off a few flanking/ back stabbs We never really got any dev attention for our 3 frontal DoTs, two of which have no real character. I'm a bit disappointed to see Ranger's getting the capability necessary to make use of their heavy damage ranged arts (by having one of their character-less frontal DD attacks changed) while we continue to have difficulty making use of our heavy damage positional/stealth attacks. I'm not saying that we don't have considerable auto-attack damage to help offset this, I'm just pointing out that we continue to have many of our heavy damage attacks that remain difficult to use while Rangers are handed access to their heavy damage attacks.I actually think Assassin's do very well in most circumstances, it is when the battle turns into a toe-to-toe slugfest that our options boil down to glorified auto-attackers and the majority of our other attacks become almost completely unuseable. I agree 100% we need some type of utility that alows us to use our big guns like ranges do while soloing. I think we should get the same thing the do in this. we should get a ability that allows us to get behind the mob and fire off 2 stealth attacks. it is only fair dont you think. We really should make some noise about this since that seems the only way to get things fixed or resolved. __________________ Raevix - 70 Assassin Bael - 70 Troublador Eynki - 56 Conjuror "Dark Horizon" Bazzar server

03-05-2006, 11:57 PM	#15
LoreLady Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,039	Sigh, shows you how ignorant some how people are.. However I will have to educate some people.In a typical group an assassin will do 300-650 extdps, wizard typically around the same, conj, usually around 250-500, bard usually around 200-350 etc.Now a ranger who is supost to be Tier one dps is currently doing 150-250 ext dps because of the current patch.Now, I have all adept 3's or masters. and i will list off my own abilities - feel free to compare it to your own and perhaps you will see why we are bugged.Debilitating arrow level 48 - adept 3 504-840, decreases parry/deflection by 40 (ranged) 1 min recast, 1.5 castCulling of the weak level 57 - adept 3. 803,1339 dmg, Back ranged attack 1.5 sec cast 1 min recast (ranged)- Can be used while movingTripple arrow level 56 adept 3 - 134-224, 264 - 449, 404 674. 1 min recast 1.5 sec cast (this used to be our strongest attack with poisons) (ranged)Precise shot level 58 adept 3 - 193 - 322, 193-322. 20 second recast. 1 second cast (this was used in combination with tripple arrow to typiccally do the hundred proc hit ) (ranged)Stealthy fire master level 56 master 2 - 1519-253. Must be stealthed. 1 min 30 second recast, 3 second cast. (ranged)Confusion arrow level 52 - adept 3. 409 damage - 1 min recast, 1.5 second cast . On successfull melee attack this spell will cast "blamed" on target (increases hate gain by 30%, lasts 10 seconds - im not even sure if these secondary ability works, I have no means to test this out) (ranged)Miracle arrow level 46 - adept 3. 467 1 min recast, 1.5 second cast. - this ability does not require a line of sight to hit a mob (ranged)Snaring shot level 58 - master 1. 201-355, slows target by 67%, 10% chance to break. 20 second recast, 1 second cast.(ranged)Snipers shot level 57 - adept 3. 3519 - 5866, 4 second stun, knockback,stifle. 15 min recast, 5 second cast(ranged)Storm of arrows level 50 - adept 3. 1096- 1828 Encounter AE, 3 minute recast, 2 second cast (ranged)(can be used while moving)Natural selection level 47 - adept 3. 540 - 900 AE (must be stealthed to use), 1 minute recast, 3 second cast (can be used while moving) (ranged)(I dont have the updated version yet)Stream of arrows level 55 - adept 3. 370 - 618 consistant damage every 1.5 seconds, roots caster in place - can not move or cast any abilities while this ability is being used, can not be used in melee range. 30 second recast, instant cast (ranged) (Currently bugged)Longshank level 50 - adept 3 270-450 10 sec recast, .5 sec cast. Applies stealth to caster (melee)Blazing thrust level 43 - adept 3 180-300 10 sec recast, .5 sec cast(melee)Dire blade level 52- adept 3. 902-1504 1 min recst .5 sec cast (must be in stealth, back attack) (melee)Fatal Reminder level 54 - adept 3. 107 dmg instantly and every 4 seconds, 40-67 melee damage on target. 36 sec duration, 30 second recast, .5 sec cast (dot) (melee)Tear level 44 - adept 3. 299 damage, summons a single arrow uppon attack (melee) (have not updated this yet)Lunging blade level 55 - adept 3. 82-137 damage on target 74-124 damage instantly and every 4 seconds. 24 sec duration, 20 second recast, .5 sec cast (dot) (melee)Tangleflame level 49 - adept 3. 379 - 633 damage 10 second recast, .5 second cast. (Must be in stealth to use, may be used from the front) (melee)Foresters noose level 51 - adept 3. Decreases heat resistance by 1428, snares target for 56%.. 5% chance of breaking (may be used while moving)20 second recast. .5 second cast. 24 second duration (form of solo util)Thorny trap level 52 - adept 3. 2 min duration of trap (not root), 3 min recast. (%age of root breaking unknown, duration of root unknown.) (this ability is currently bugged)Backup quiver adept 3 - summons 45 arrowsImproved surviel level 56 - master 1. Decreases threat by 876- 1460 - Grants stealth to the caster 1 second cast, 30 second recast (ability may be used while moving)Snipe level 50 - adept 3 decreases defense of target by 32. .5 second cast, 20 second recast, 36 second duration (may be used while moving, and at semi ranged)Shroud of the forest level 56 - adept 3. Increases agil by 60, increases attack speed of caster by 33%, increases incombat move speed by 7% - perminant ability, takes up 1 concentration slot.Brutal Instinct - level 54 adept 3. Increases DPS by 75%, 34 ranged. 36 second duration, .5 second cast. 5 min recast (great emergacy dps button, espessally in solo)Focus fire level 50 - adept 3. Increases attack speed by 63%, increases DPS by 72%, increases ranged by 184, decreases piercing/slashing by 150. 10 second duration (all this only works on auto attack - actually semi useless ability, but good for an extra 2-3 shots) 1 sec cast. 1 min 30 second recast.Primal agility level 52 adept 3, Decreases hate gain by 39% (perminant ability, takes up one concentration slot)Archers frenzy level 59 adept 3. 30% chance to proc 359 damage(ranged only) increases slash/pierce/ranged by 37. Decreases defense by 17.7(offensive)Dance of the leaves - level 46, adept 3. Increases agil by 50, increases parry by 29, increases defense by 39. Decreases pierce/slash by 19.3(defensive)Now you have a compleate list of most abilitys to 60, I do realize that I dont have everything upgraded but when I get a cheap vanadium/pearl i'll edit this post. If you look at the offensive ranged attacks, there are several attacks that only do 400 damage max, and our stronger abilities that do about 1k damage max, and our biggest abilities dont even come close to assassins, wizards, or warlocks. I have 174 str, and 298 agil in my offensive stance self buffed (dont turn this into a str vs agil debate please). Now look at your own abilities and compare, then tell me things dont need to be changed.These are actuall figures comming from an actuall person, I do realize figures on damage changes from person to person depending on str, level, quality of spell. And I hope I have given assassins (and others) enough information to know why we are getting a boost. And, I do realize I have not listed some spells - like evade, cheapshot, honed reflex's, bounty. Simply because any assassin can look at there own abilities to see what they get. If anyone has any questions PM me or write on this forum. If you wish to continue this debate, I will get a friend to list me all of his abilities then write it down on this forum and make a comparison to end some of the statements I have heard in the above posters (some people really truely cant think or understand before they post/speak).If anyone thinks that an ability is overpowered to the assassin lines - i'll be happy to get you to see my point of view. __________________ RIP Oakleaf 1949-2006

03-06-2006, 05:07 AM	#16
Carna Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 515	K'aldar wrote:i have an equal lvl ranger to my assassin (lvl 65) in my guild that post lu20 and before this patch could still outparse anyone on group mobs, and be in the top 3 in single target dps. now seeing as i could outparse him on single target, it seems fair don't ya think? and yet now they're getting a boost.. I feel quite confident in saying that is simply a lie.

03-06-2006, 06:33 AM	#17
Eynki Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 90	Carnagh wrote: K'aldar wrote:i have an equal lvl ranger to my assassin (lvl 65) in my guild that post lu20 and before this patch could still outparse anyone on group mobs, and be in the top 3 in single target dps. now seeing as i could outparse him on single target, it seems fair don't ya think? and yet now they're getting a boost.. I feel quite confident in saying that is simply a lie. I am quite comfortable sayig it is not a lie. I experience similar findings when grouping with ranger guild mates, and find when we get into parsing wars that they can still match my dps (about 500 - 700) consistently. when all my abilities are up i can get to about 900-1100 dps but dont know what he will get if all his abilitis are up. i just know the everyday run of the mll fight. __________________ Raevix - 70 Assassin Bael - 70 Troublador Eynki - 56 Conjuror "Dark Horizon" Bazzar server

03-06-2006, 09:17 AM	#18
K'aldar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 378	yeah Eynki that's what i'm finding. seems with their specials up they can outparse anyone in aoe, while i can outparse anyone in single target with specials. all seemed fair to me. __________________

03-06-2006, 03:24 PM	#19
Aienaa Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 360	Now a ranger who is supost to be Tier one dps is currently doing 150-250 ext dps because of the current patch. Ok, I know this is total BS... We have 2 Rangers in my guild and I group with them all the time and thier damage is at a minimum of 3 times what you posted here (450 - 750) in just normal groups... I parse all the time to check how my DPS is with different group settings and varying amounts of strength... I also compare other group members.... You know, when the changes first happened and Rangers began to cry, I asked one of the Rangers in my guild what kind of DPS they were getting while soloing... The answer I got was around 800, which is quite a bit higher than mine unless I use my CAs on the 5 min and 15 min timers.... I find it amusing that when I am in tank mode, where I sacrifice some of my Strength for Mitigation and Agility gear in order to tank, that my DPS is still within the range that you posted Assassin DPS as, and above that of a Ranger.... When I am in Tank Mode, I generally parse around 450 DPS.... Now get this, the majority of this is from AUTO-ATTACK.... Because when I am tanking, I loose the ability to use at least 60% of my CAs... All 5 of my flanking / stealth attacks are useless because of being in front of the mob... My 3 Bow CAs are useless because I am tanking and it's impossible to use ranged CAs.... Yet your trying to tell me that a unrestrained Ranger can't even do equal to my damage while I am tanking?? Last point.... Any Predator class can exceede the 125-250 DPS you listed by just simply putting yourself in auto-attack mode and never hitting a CA at all.... We all use the same equipment, the same weapons, the same poisons.... So, if it's not the CA, it must be something else.... I have 174 str, and 298 agil in my offensive stance self buffed (dont turn this into a str vs agil debate please). This has nothing to do with Str vs. Agi, but you do know that your Auto-Attack and CA damage is based on Strength, right?? Most Rangers and Assassins that are around level 60 have a Strength near or above 300 (without buffs), so yours being around half of that explains why your DPS is lower.... If you choose to increase your Agility over increasing your Strength, do not complain when your damage is lower than thoes who choose to increase Strenght over Agility Do you also realize that Int effects your poison damage and Proc damage? Sigh, shows you how ignorant some how people are.. However I will have to educate some people. Sorry, but if you want to come here and show us how ignorant we are and teach us how thigs really are, then you should at least get your numbers right and quit trying to exagerate on the side of being crippled, because all it does is shows how ignorant you really are.... Gwern - 67 Assassin - Kithicor

03-06-2006, 10:16 PM	#20
Demonskill General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 317	-Soloing for a Ranger is generally difficult because they are at a tactical disadvantage for having less melee combat arts than Assassins. Their 'Lunge' combat art line was a melee attack + DoT, which really did not offer anything different than their 'Bleeding Cut' line. 'Lunge' is now changed into a melee attack + very short duration unbreakable Root, so that the Ranger can back away and get up to two more ranged combat arts in while soloing. When did we have upper hand on soloing? i thought ranger has been greater soloing than us all the time... BTW what pisses me off, is that they nerf us and we've been below where we are for the whole year, now only 1 patch and they talk about balancing? i don't feel any loves to assassin still at all. __________________ -- Ongbak The Loyal -- Level 70 Assassin no guild atm Nektolus Server

03-06-2006, 10:31 PM	#21
Demonskill General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 317	In a typical group an assassin will do 300-650 extdps, wizard typically around the same, conj, usually around 250-500, bard usually around 200-350 etc.Now a ranger who is supost to be Tier one dps is currently doing 150-250 ext dps because of the current patch. I've been parsing every chance that i can have. I've seen rangers and assassin in my group doing uber 150-200 dps and being level 60 (im serious, they do exist). 1 thing in common tho, they got 150ish str. It does not make the 3x dps difference, but at the same time, predator is a class that requires SKILL to play, not BUTTON MESHER. If that is how you have been playing ur ranger the last 60 levels, guess it's the poison that helps u do the DPS, not ur skill. Whereas having constant nerf on assassin, we find our own way of making combos and get our DPS up by actually spending time to learn our recast time, learn nature of the skill and what to use what not in what circumstances. If i mesh everything in 1 fight and do [Removed for Content] dps the next fight im not a good assassin. In conclusion, it comes down to how good of a player you are. how well u know ur class. button mesher is for mage, not predator Note: whenever i see those 200dps predator player, i seriously wanna tell them, my auto attack dps is doing more than u __________________ -- Ongbak The Loyal -- Level 70 Assassin no guild atm Nektolus Server

03-06-2006, 11:06 PM	#22
LoreLady Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,039	Aienaa To your first comment - you do realize I posted ExtDPS. there is a diffrence. I can pull off one snipers shot, and have the fight last 10 seconds and say i do 900 dps. Fact is, thats not accurate, so I prefer extdps.To your second comment - my original post was intended to show people why rangers are getting a boost to be onpar with assassins. And in order to scale my abilities with someone elses, they need a STR scale to compare there own to." Sorry, but if you want to come here and show us how ignorant we are and teach us how thigs really are, then you should at least get your numbers right and quit trying to exagerate on the side of being crippled, because all it does is shows how ignorant you really are..." - Some posts I have seen in this fourm" this is stupid rangers have been doing 1700 dps meanwhile assassin was doing 1k ALL DOF(6 months or so ) and now in ONE WEEK that rangers have been doing only a bit lesser than assassin they have been bosted and assassin should fell good?????LOL NO rangers should be doing lesser dps than assassin because they can avoid AES and asassins cant ( soe could have given us an skill to block AE or something but no soe is very focused on ranger and assassin dont exist for soe )" - prov "i have an equal lvl ranger to my assassin (lvl 65) in my guild that post lu20 and before this patch could still outparse anyone on group mobs, and be in the top 3 in single target dps. now seeing as i could outparse him on single target, it seems fair don't ya think? and yet now they're getting a boost." These posts in particular are what im pointing out to - not the entire assassin community. __________________ RIP Oakleaf 1949-2006

03-06-2006, 11:56 PM	#23
Tlaloc Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 20	Hmm, the original intent of my post was just to inform the community that dev's did identify an issue with rangers and they are adjusting combat arts and giving them an additional root to help them in soloing which I believe all is good for that class as they should be on par with assassins. I am sorry that this turned into a flaming war.... To reference some of my original comments about the LU 20 changes I never believed that SoE nerfed rangers. They made changes to a poorly designed proc mechanics that allowed rangers to proc insanely and do extreme DPS. Rangers and assassins both took advantage of this flawed proc mechanic to maximize their DPS but ranger CA's and bow cast times allowed them to take better advantage of it. The end result was an additional 30 - 50% DPS from procs alone. The changes in the proc system brought to light the real issue which was ranger CA's were underpowered and SoE is now making the appropiate adjustments to bring them in line with Assassins. Ps: to Deaks and Skratt who always have well thought out and constructive replies as well as many other assassins Lathu 61 Assassin - Befallen Message Edited by Tlalocnj on 03-06-200601:59 PM

03-07-2006, 12:20 AM	#24
Verlaine Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: MN, USA Posts: 113	I was watching a parse last night, for the most part me and the ranger were pretty much even. Granted when I completely opened up on a named and reached 825dps. For the most part we were both staying right around 450-550. I don't know if he ever opened up and went all out, but we were pretty even most of the time. The biggest thing that bugs me is that I typically see this. I don't see where people are claiming to only be doing 300dps vs assassin 500dps. The only thing I can come up with is either I have been grouping with the best of the ranger class or the classes are indeed balanced. As to the upgrades they are getting thats great for them, atleast on a solo ascpect, but up our cheap shot so we can now solo just as easily. Since if there is even a little lag spike we will not get off our stealthed atk. Verlaine 53 assassin

03-07-2006, 12:46 AM	#25
LoreLady Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,039	Nice post tlalcnj - It wasent my intention to continue the flamewar. Only to post on why we are getting our combat abilitys updated, As for my personal opinion, it doesnt matter to me if we get the extra root or not.I also get tired of mere opinions instead of numbers - another reason I put the original post up, give some facts. __________________ RIP Oakleaf 1949-2006

03-07-2006, 03:22 AM	#26
Aienaa Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 360	Aienaa To your first comment - you do realize I posted ExtDPS. there is a diffrence. I can pull off one snipers shot, and have the fight last 10 seconds and say i do 900 dps. Fact is, thats not accurate, so I prefer extdps. I would have to say that Epic X4 mobs gives you a pretty good idea what kind of DPS a class can put out, not just 1 Epic X4, but a lot of them... Somehow I seriously doubt that a ranger is going pull off 1 sniper shot and do 900 DPS as the fights last minutes, not seconds... Fact is, the numbers stand up.... To your second comment - my original post was intended to show people why rangers are getting a boost to be onpar with assassins. And in order to scale my abilities with someone elses, they need a STR scale to compare there own to. You can not compare your DPS with the Str that you have to someone else that has much higher Str and say that is the reason that you need a DPS boost... Fact is that Assassins and Ranger with similar stats do similiar DPS, it just takes the right gear and the right amount of skill to be able to put out the higher DPS... Gwern - 67 Assassin / Nilla - 66 Alchemist

03-07-2006, 10:04 AM	#27
Carna Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 515	You chaps do realise that if they're left where they are, once any level betrayal comes out the Assassin population is simply going to double don't you? Those Assassins claiming the current Ranger is observed to do the same dps in parses, could you post a couple of parses?

03-07-2006, 08:56 PM	#28
LoreLady Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,039	"I would have to say that Epic X4 mobs gives you a pretty good idea what kind of DPS a class can put out, not just 1 Epic X4, but a lot of them... Somehow I seriously doubt that a ranger is going pull off 1 sniper shot and do 900 DPS as the fights last minutes, not seconds... Fact is, the numbers stand up..." - those numbers still come from a compleatly debuffed mob, on a typical raiddebuffed mob, theres a swashy and brigand there debuffing all its melee to near 0. Not to mention general haste from enchanters, bards etc, considering rangers and other dps are typicaccly places in DPS groups to boost dps. The numbers give out diffrent readings as if you were grouped."You can not compare your DPS with the Str that you have to someone else that has much higher Str and say that is the reason that you need a DPS boost... Fact is that Assassins and Ranger with similar stats do similiar DPS, it just takes the right gear and the right amount of skill to be able to put out the higher DPS..."Its not Str im debaiting, its general abilities. Ranged abilities are supost to be our most powerfull attacks, and if many of them only do 400 damage, theres a problem.And yes I can compare. Now, here is a wizard comparison.http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=18860Assassin skill tree http://whisperlands.homedns.org:336/Games/EQ2/assassin-skilltable-screenshots.htmlAssassins in general get several abilities that do well over 2k hits, dots that do 300 damage easilly, rangers dont. THAT is why I posted my own abilities.Edit - And I will bring out my own parses later today. Message Edited by LoreLady on 03-07-200607:57 AM Message Edited by LoreLady on 03-07-200607:58 AM __________________ RIP Oakleaf 1949-2006

03-07-2006, 09:08 PM	#29
Saihung23 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Delaware:Home of...Home of...we got stuff! Posts: 1,527	All I know is what I experience when I play. I dont know what the assassin experience is...I dont play them. Rangers post LU20 were not impossible to play, but they were impossible to play effectively. Solo'ing was either a practice in how to use evac or it was a funeral every other time. This is concerning even con no arrow mobs. Argue if you want, that was/is the reality for me. I have all imbued equip., adept 1 minimum on all ca's. But you know what...it doesnt matter...what matters isnt what my experience was, it is what the developer's experience was that is important. And apparently the dev's saw fit to fix the deficiencies they themselves found. I do think that assassins should get something akin to the "unbreakable root" (4 seconds btw) rangers have coming to them. I think a unresistable stun or something is what you guys need. I wholly support assassins in the desire for a change like that for them. I think it not only fair but necessary. But that is my opinion. Let us hope that the dev's see it that way as well. Saihung (sorry for the forum invasion __________________

03-07-2006, 10:07 PM	#30
Fallen Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: the deepest depths of enemy hell Posts: 2	Being pure bred killers, (the only role that I can think of at this time), assassins need not to worry about dps. I think, and maybe I'm just saying this because I'm a assassin myself, we will one day rule dps classes totally and everyone will seek us with no arguments. I'm only saying this again for because for one our dps is gigantic in any group without aoe's. and 2 our class name promises that we will live up to up! Kill. Thats all we do so like it or not our day will come where we will be know for what are class name say's we do. Btw class names are so you get a ideal what that class does. And throwing darts will only put someones eye out Dam Rangers. I'm tired of looting your spell drops!