Current State of the Assassin

[Hawgeous]

I don't wish anything bad on any other class but man it ticks me off to see a DEV response to other class problems after two or three posts.

Message Edited by Hawgeous on 10-20-2005 01:43 PM

[Kokus]

small addition to the end of the original post.

[Lagge]

If we need stealth and positional attacks then it should imho boost us to the top of the dps charts.  No other classes need this, no other classes (bar rangers I guess, who imo shouldnt use poisons being of "good" class) have to pay to get their DPS in the form of poison (which costs a fortune), no other class has to pay for arrows to use some of their big attacks.

 

Our damage totally depends on all of the above.  So many times ive hit stealth attack or ran back for a bow shot and some numpty (usually if we have a swashbuckler in the group) pulls WAY too much aggro and makes the mob turn which kills off any flank attacks I was about to do = dps bottom of the chart.  This is really bad when you stand back for a bow shot only to get the message that you should be behind the mob, all the time backing off and hitting your bow attack just totally wasted...

 

I still dont see any need to log into the game, 2 weeks with no groups and a week of not even bothering logging in.  Fun...

[Hawgeous]

Just a few changes I've seen playin an assassin.

1. most all CAs now require position, didn't use to be this bad when some were non positional.

2. rooted mobs can now turn, this one makes me red in the face when I go through the steps to pull off a decent stealth attack and see the mob looking me in the eyes when I hit the button.

3. all real sef haste for our class is gone, yes we have some but are they even worth using?

4. we have an out of combat stealth that is the same as our in combat but we can't attack when using it, why have it, yes the insta stealth is nice some times but I use in 1 out of every 20-30 times I stealth. Oh yea, it blows when grouping, to get hit by AOEs and never get a stealth hit off.

I could go on but as has been stated before, most of our CAs took a hit through the CU and I think the hardest thing for me is each time a change is pushed to live it has some negative impact on this class.

[Tealdea]

Hmm... Been 2 weeks nearly... Still no adventure exp... only crafting, level 60 now, stuck at 52 assassin... Just don't feel like going out with the hassle of killing when your so gimped (I was 2x my dps before the combat changes, invyed by my assassin friend who has quit his 50 assassin and 50 templar)

[Paragon100]

I can understand your frustration!

I havent played my assassin in 2 weeks now. I wont reopen that account till they fix the assassins dps. Untill then Ill keep playing WoW because its the only other thing out there next to EQ2 in my opinion. When they fix assassins, I will come back. IF they ever fix them.

 

[pczry]

if we ever get fixed and out dps rangers or mages, they might end up quitting their toon =D

Message Edited by pczryan on 10-22-2005 05:34 PM

[Hawgeous]

Woot, looks like jumpin back on my crafters has paid off, can't wait until my assassin gets some help and is ready to play again.

[judged_one]

Was fighting against guildies in pvp last night.ONCE AGAIN WE ARE [Removed for Content] GIMPED.Once again the briuser kicked everyone around.LU15 Still no fix. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is an assassin doing using freaking cheapshot a lvl 6 scout spell.When our stealth attacks is resisted we are screwed in PVP.When someone does DoT we can't StealthWhen someone does true AoE we can't stealthJust 3 more retarted SOE things.FIX THE FREAKING LIST.

[Vumuud]

Judged one wrote

Was fighting against guildies in pvp last night.

ONCE AGAIN WE ARE [Removed for Content] GIMPED.

Once again the briuser kicked everyone around.
LU15 Still no fix. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is an assassin doing using freaking cheapshot a lvl 6 scout spell.

When our stealth attacks is resisted we are screwed in PVP.
When someone does DoT we can't Stealth
When someone does true AoE we can't stealth

Just 3 more retarted SOE things.

FIX THE FREAKING LIST.

Hearth (SIN) Iconoclast

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You forgot to mention the loss of poison when you got your A S S kicked in PVP! How long does it take for us to get an answer?

 

 

[Demonskill]

think they are investigating each class's each skill one by one every day. So i'd estimate 12 more months =)

[Noxium]

Hi,I've recently returned to EQ2, I left originally as I hit level 50 around Feb, being the first assassin on my server to do so - we had issues back then.  I still kept in contact with my friends, and they have raved about the combat changes, and convinced me to return - I was somewhat skeptical, but everyone was raving about them so figured I'd give it a go.DoF - very nice, nice surprises being chased by angry mobs around Maj'Dul just from heading into the wrong area - something I missed from Qeynos/Freeport early days in EQ1.  I'm not here to express my opinions on DoF though.My gear isn't great - I haven't played for 6 months, I wield things like an SBD, have numerous 46+ daggers, and a 1HS/shield in my bag.  I also use a bow.I'm now level 51.  Last night, I start a group up - previously, I’d have LFG on for literally minutes before joining a group (before people knew how bad assassins were) but nothing was happening much and we head over to LT.  One of my old friends, a 51 wiz joins us - he has seriously good items, and various adept3/master1 spells.  His DPS is amazing, it’s almost double that of the level 52 wiz that joins us, at my request, he parses group damage, and is sending them to me in tells.  I am embarrassed, quite simply embarrassed.  What use am I to a group when the paladin is managing a comparable dps?  I'm not talking about the 'special' fight every 15 minutes.  The level 52 wiz has around double my dps, making me around 1/4 that of my 51 Wiz friend.Around 6 months ago, before I quit, I could see a few major problems - they've not changed.  Assassins have to be the most mobile class, if the tank moves 1cm, it could mean the mobs move a much larger distance - meaning your AE gets 1 mob or your backstab completely misses, and stealth drops as you've just been caught in some unlucky AE.  No other class is restricted so much.  Casters can stand anywhere and nuke.  Where is the 'the wizard has to be directly behind the mob, within melee range and have stealth up to cast their nuke?'  They don't have it.  We wear chain, I’m willing to accept some restrictions, but that triple restriction is a killer.  All our abilities, and melee dps should be tripled to bring us in line with Tier 1 dps - Rangers out dps my wiz friend, he can't get near them unless they are poorly equipped.  They are meant to be our brothers. My thoughts?  Do I have an answer?  No, I'm not a game designer, and anything I could suggest will probably not fit in with the way the game works, but the assassin class is in need of help.  Or is it our destiny to be a Tier 3 dps class?  Please just say so, and I’ll done my leathers and play a bruiser, at least until I get sidetracked again.I do however have ideas, lost of ideas.  One day one will make me rich beyond my wildest dreams, or more likely be patented and stolen making someone else rich.Maybe a consideration should be the way our limitations, such as positioning and stealth work.  I say remove these restrictions from our abilities completely.  Make them into 'bonus' damage multipliers.  We try a backstab?  The game looks and sees our state?  Are we invis?  Yes, ok, we'll double the damage.  Are we behind?  No, ok, we won't double it, but hey look, he’s at the side, I’ll just grant a bonus of 50%, and stacks these against our currently restricted abilities.  We'll still have to work our nuts off to get the tank to remain still, and pray the mobs don't move out of range, and still have to run around chasing a mobs back like a ferret, but that should be our domain, and we'll at least have the potential to get to Tier 1.Just an idea.Oh and PLEASE make the high damage charts vs NPC's only.Nox51 Mohawk, Splitpaw.

[SmEaGoLLuM]

Meant to post it here. Just a letter a friend used for a /feedback that he wanted me to add here. Dear SOE, There are some serious issues with the asssassin dps currently. There are issues with so many skills requiring stealth resulting in long cast times and not enough stealth and also huge recast times and damage is simply very low for a tier 1 dps class. They are currently not functioning as a tier 1 dps class, they are tier 3 currently at best. Almost all the main assassin damage attacks require stealth which results in huge cast times which is not characteristic of a scout and there are positioning issues and issues resulting in stealth breaking and ending up not even getting the stealth, from the mob AE and even the bug which bas been around for months. If we look at the wizard class for example, not even looking at the all their other benefits for the group like mez, power xfer, group buffs, debuffs, they have evac just like us. Ok they have all that in addition their ice comet is 45 sec recast, out assassinate is 15 min recast, their ball of incineration is 9 sec recast, our deathly blade is 5 mins recast, their sunstrike is 3 sec recast, our gorestrike is 1 min recast. Do you see the disparity there? To top that off, even the furies storm spell which can get to master2 does 1250-2100 exactlly the same as the assassins gorestrike at master2 also. So both are at master2 and all this is comparing the same str and intel, but guess what, the gorestrike is 1 min recast, the storm spell is 15 sec recast. A priest's nuke is superior to one of our big backstabs at master2.  Gorestrike also requires stealth. Did the devs just test each class from fighting one encounter and that's it, and did not look to recast timers and just thought up some recast numbers that they thought were approriate for that spell/art? Please don't give me crap about the sustained dps we do currently, yes we do have it but summoner's have many times our sustained dps from their pets and they are a tier 2 dps class. In fact, summoners, sorcs, rogues, bruisers, rangers currently outdamage assassins on average by a large margin. Rangers are where they should be but the evil representitive of the predator is many many steps down the ladder currently. This is parsing both good and average players. Not only that, the assassins barely does more dps than some other fighters. The class role is at stake with them not acting at all as a tier 1 dps class. Namely, I would suggest staggering blow do more initial damage, insidious wound needs to do more initial damage also and reduce the duration dot and make each tick do more, and oozing wound should tick faster also, as in have higher dmg ticks but less ticks, it should be 16 sec dot so its termination effect actually has a chance to go off. Freezing strike line needs to do slightly more damage, gorestrike needs to be on a 30 sec recast and do slightly more damage, deathly blade needs to be on a 1 min recast. I would like to say that garrote is the most worthless spell we have, not only does it require stealth it does about 250 dmg at adept3. This is sickening for a tier 1 dps class. The damage on it should be magnitudes higher than it currently is. Assassinate needs to be on a 3 min recast.  Out of all the dps classes, both tier 1 and tier 2 we have the worst aes of them all. We have positioning issues, both aes requiring stealth and they are ALWAYS broken from mob ae or the stupid bug that will probably never be fixed. And they have huge cast times for their miniscule damage. And why does massacre have to only hit the mobs in front? Murderer's assault needs do tick faster and do more dmg per tick, also a slight dmg increase on the initial damage and should be 1 sec cast or 1.5 sec cast at the most. Massacre needs do hit all mobs around the assassin and should be 2 sec cast. Our surveil line needs to be 10 sec recast and instant cast. Fel shot and spitting asp both need to be 1 sec cast and spitting asp made able to be used while flanking, and whoever thought of the damage numbers on assailing blast and contrived weapon I salute you. Both of these need to do multitudes more damage and contrived weapon needs to be 1 sec cast also. Whirling blades needs to be a 30% proc just like all the other pred and rogue procs, why do assassins get the shaft here? Also it should give a str bonus. Exposing mark is currently useless like garrote and contrived weapon, it should be made better in some way but I cannot think of any way other than increase its proc rate and damage. Brutal focus needs to have a shorter recast or made to last 1min 12 secs. Lasting 36s and recast of 5 min is not right, and many of these kind of spells post revamp were made to be more useful with shorter recast and longer duration, apparently they missed our focus line. Only with many of these changes will assassins be more in line as a tier 1 dps class for goodness sakes. If you guys are looking hard, look harder please, look at the assassin class at every angle, from long fights to short fights, to slow pulls to fast pulls, from having lots of mobs meant for ae to a single mob. Just look at the assassin class and say to yourself we have a problem and must look into this thoroughly and carefully. Thank you for reading.

[SteveS]

I wasnt even going to bother writing on this thread because there are so many other assassins already stating the obvious in the first 100 posts whats another to matter?

 

But, in saying that....I have only just hit lvl 25 so forgive for not having the immense experience of my fellow assassins, having grouped all this week to do my armour quests in Fallen Gate and Edgewater....I feel i too must add my frustration at how bad my DPS is compared to other members of my group.

The wizard is mostly top of the parse list, followed usually by the bruiser....then me, then a crummy shadowknight, then the shaman.  And i am just about beating the shadowknight lol by about 25 pts

May as well take a bleedin'nother bruiser, apart from ESCAPE i am somewhat just another majority group player.  Dosnt the word ASSASSIN imply soemthing more than what we have become??  We are supposed to be masters of stealth, Trained in the arts of poison and are highly trained with almost any weapon.

At first i couldnt see what everyone was complaining about....solo'n at low levels were a breeze, I was really enjoying it, however fights are getting harder and I feel that groups are only taking me on because they need the extra plyr

Please fix our DPS

[Tacp]

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SteveSKZ wrote:

I wasnt even going to bother writing on this thread because there are so many other assassins already stating the obvious in the first 100 posts whats another to matter?

 

But, in saying that....I have only just hit lvl 25 so forgive for not having the immense experience of my fellow assassins, having grouped all this week to do my armour quests in Fallen Gate and Edgewater....I feel i too must add my frustration at how bad my DPS is compared to other members of my group.

The wizard is mostly top of the parse list, followed usually by the bruiser....then me, then a crummy shadowknight, then the shaman.  And i am just about beating the shadowknight lol by about 25 pts

May as well take a bleedin'nother bruiser, apart from ESCAPE i am somewhat just another majority group player.  Dosnt the word ASSASSIN imply soemthing more than what we have become??  We are supposed to be masters of stealth, Trained in the arts of poison and are highly trained with almost any weapon.

At first i couldnt see what everyone was complaining about....solo'n at low levels were a breeze, I was really enjoying it, however fights are getting harder and I feel that groups are only taking me on because they need the extra plyr

Please fix our DPS

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I am 25 as well and I have not had any issues being 1 or 2 DPS in any group I am in, please lets not post non factual statements, our DPS problems start 40+. If you can't pump out DPS at 25 then maybe you should roll a bruiser and mash buttons.

[Tealdea]

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Tacp wrote:

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SteveSKZ wrote:

I wasnt even going to bother writing on this thread because there are so many other assassins already stating the obvious in the first 100 posts whats another to matter?

But, in saying that....I have only just hit lvl 25 so forgive for not having the immense experience of my fellow assassins, having grouped all this week to do my armour quests in Fallen Gate and Edgewater....I feel i too must add my frustration at how bad my DPS is compared to other members of my group.

The wizard is mostly top of the parse list, followed usually by the bruiser....then me, then a crummy shadowknight, then the shaman.  And i am just about beating the shadowknight lol by about 25 pts

May as well take a bleedin'nother bruiser, apart from ESCAPE i am somewhat just another majority group player.  Dosnt the word ASSASSIN imply soemthing more than what we have become??  We are supposed to be masters of stealth, Trained in the arts of poison and are highly trained with almost any weapon.

At first i couldnt see what everyone was complaining about....solo'n at low levels were a breeze, I was really enjoying it, however fights are getting harder and I feel that groups are only taking me on because they need the extra plyr

Please fix our DPS

---

I am 25 as well and I have not had any issues being 1 or 2 DPS in any group I am in, please lets not post non factual statements, our DPS problems start 40+. If you can't pump out DPS at 25 then maybe you should roll a bruiser and mash buttons.

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Scold him why don't ya? He's so young, probably not even useing the best poison's. I have a level 50 assassin friend who is STILL asking me questions about the class because we are still so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]'d up. Keep your attitude for the mages.

[Tacp]

I was not scolding him for asking a question it was his statement that at 25 we suck, which we hardly do. Lets not send the devs the totally wrong message and have them chasing ghosts.

[Historios]

Just had to add my 2cp to this as well.  Was parsing in a group with me (51 assassin), 53 necro, and 53 conj.  Fighting against white/blue con mobs in PoF they were doing almost double my dps unless I had assassinate or condemning blade up.  THen I could usually get up to number 2 on the list.  The saddest thing for me was in some fights when all 3 of my biggest backstabs were down I actually got outdamaged by the necro's assassin pet.

 

The biggest problems I notice is recast timers on out attacks, its mighty frustrating to sit there during a fight staring at a bar of grayed out abilitys waiting for something to refresh.  Granted this will cause power use problems, but I'm pretty sure that wizards dont have to wait 5 or even 15 mins to use ice comet.  In my mind the bloodthirster line should be on about a 30 sec retimer, condemning blade line should be 1 min, and assassinate could be a 5 min retimer.  Then we could actually do some damage each fight rather than just pretending.  Of course we would also probably need another ability which will stealth us because we're the only class that has to disappear to do damage.

 

Which brings me to my last point, why exactly do we have to be invisible to do damage?  If I'm attacking something, why should I have to stop, then hide, just so I can hit him again?  This just makes no sense to me, so not only do I have to be behind the mob, but now, if he DoT's or AoE's me, all I did was waste time and have my invis break, so I cant use any of my higher damage abilities.  And of course now I'm stuck waiting for one of my TWO whopping combat invis spells to refresh so I can try and backstab again.

 

I like my class, I like the idea of doing lots of damage and being a mean underhanded rotten bastich that gets behind people and stabs them in the back, but the implementation of this idea still needs work.

Message Edited by Historios on 10-26-2005 11:36 AM

[Hawgeous]

While I don't think the issue is as big through 20s and 30s I do think it exist.

I spent most of those levels with a Monk that gave me a run for my money in the DPS department.

Most of the CAs lines that have been aluded to as having very long refresh timers are given in the twenty levels and if you upgrade you can typically do pretty good, not as good as some, but it becomes much more obvious after that.

I mean really, if I have a CA that does 5,000 points damage at a 5 min refresh rate the equals 16.7 dps. Not much help overall is it.

Message Edited by Hawgeous on 10-26-2005 10:09 AM

[judged_one]

Guess SOE didn't like thatI started a new thread calling for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]assin to cancel their account if no changes were made or news by Nov 15th.They stealth remove it in a heart beat.Seriously Many people already said that in this thread. So I am sure you are monitoring this forum.Here is the stat 2 guild [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]assin already left, 2 guardians are leaving.That's 4 accounts our of 80 from my guild.Do the math. Is it too hard to post a statement. What kind of freaking customer service is this SOE.btw unnerf [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]assin (a s s a s s i n) in the forum, another bright no-brainer script by SOE.do you guys have quality [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]urance?

[judged_one]

I can [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ure you that this [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ortment of bugs is the result of poor [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]embler of product. This is a direct [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ault on the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]assin class.I hereby call on your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]istance to help me create an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]embly of astounded players to prevent further passing of such poorly written script. I call for them to be more [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]iduous from this point on cause I am truly embarrassed to be [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ociated with them, even only as a mere customer. Please give me some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]urance that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]assin will be fix in the near future. I look forward to your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]uagement.

[Paragon100]

Immature, lazy and foul mouthed.

In before the lock!! =P

[Hawgeous]

There is absolutly no reason to lock this thread.

Yes there have been some comments that could have been left out but in my opinion this is a result of frustration on the part of players (paying customers) that has gone unaddressed for to long.

I do realize a need to take the appropriate amount of time and fix the issues rather than just patching but I think most of use would appreciate any sort of patch at this point while they continue to work on the bigger issue.

[Craien]

 

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judged_one wrote:
I can [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ure you that this [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ortment of bugs is the result of poor [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]embler of product. This is a direct [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ault on the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn][expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]in class.
I hereby call on your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]istance to help me create an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]embly of astounded players to prevent further passing of such poorly written script. I call for them to be more [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]iduous from this point on cause I am truly embarrassed to be [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ociated with them, even only as a mere customer.

Please give me some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]urance that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn][expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]in will be fix in the near future. I look forward to your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]uagement.

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Not that I don’t agree, but perhaps an emphasis on the positive and constructive would serve us better.  Our class definitely took several steps back, but our attitude and maturity shouldn’t have as well.  Don’t mean to be harsh, though, so please don’t take it that way.

 

Message Edited by Craien on 10-26-2005 12:09 PM

[Jakr]

cut the   crying and flaming  this post is supposed to be filled with  constructive clear posts about our proffesion. not   crying   nonsense,if you wanna  cry  pls take it elsewhere. none of us want this post locked  people  worked to hard on this post to have you ruin it for everyone.

Message Edited by Jakron on 10-29-2005 09:22 AM

[Tacp]

I would hate to see him if someone p.i.s.s.e.d in his Rice Krispies

Message Edited by Tacp on 10-26-200512:39 PM

Message Edited by Tacp on 10-26-2005 12:40 PM

[Jakr]

looks fine to me ,  assassin  <----- doesnt get [Haxx0red]

Message Edited by Jakron on 10-26-2005 12:41 PM

[Tacp]

noticed after I posted but in judged_Ones post the word Assassin is Haxxored

[Tacp]

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judged_one wrote:
I. This is a direct [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ault on the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]assin class.

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Haxxored there

[Jakr]

hes probably  putting a space in or somthing. hes the only one that cant type it lol