assassens were NERFED

[HolyAvengerOne]

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Demonskiller wrote:

1 thing that i wanna point out, is that we didn't get NERF, we actually did get an upgrade on DPS, but not as much compare to other class such as wizard and ranger, and now they are well FAR above us.

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Bah, I'm just happy being the type of char I am. I don't care if wizzy has more DPS, they can't track and I can use hellish poisons that proc like mad. That being said, I COMPLETELY agree that pacify is teh r0x !!

Message Edited by HolyAvengerOne on 09-15-2005 08:56 PM

[Turb]

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Demonskiller wrote:1 thing that i wanna point out, is that we didn't get NERF, we actually did get an upgrade on DPS, but not as much compare to other class such as wizard and ranger, and now they are well FAR above us.

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Do you have a link to stats that show how far above us wizards and in particular rangers are? Or are you going from personal parses?Thanks.

[Craien]

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Graton wrote:

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WhispersEdge wrote:

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Darking wrote:

I am curious to what kind of weapons and gear you guys are using:

 

Paperdragon does around 190-200dps (on the cyclops fellas in a group with 293STR buffed)after the update, and he did 120ish before so all in all im happy..

 

But how the hell do you achieve 350dps????

 

Allright i dont have super all fabled gear nor ADEPT IIIs in everything but does it make such a huge difference??

 

PD's profile: http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=273448204

 

 

What do i need to do to gain 150+dps of damage increase?

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You dont look too bad PD, so dont fret.

A fabled offhand would be nice, like a Lunar Ornate Spear. Those can drop off any x2 from what I have seen, so not too hard to upgrade your offhand. One thing I notice is iron arrows, you should try fulginate or indium, they add quite a bit to your bow damage.

Also, use either withering spirit as a common poison, or decrepit stab if you have access to rare poisons cheap. The low initial high dot poisons are king, and will outdamage all other poisons if they just get 1 tic.

Other tips:
Make sure to always use Anathema *and* moor now, since the poison debuff is quite significant. You should be able to up your damage quite a bit by doing some of the things I said and maybe getting your hands on a better upgrade. Just hang in there

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unless it was changed with the revamp which is certainly possible, arrow quality doesn't affect CA dmg so unless you're using auto range attack a lot & kiting, buying indium arrows is a waste of money.

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Actually, the higher quality arrows are better because they increase your chance to hit mobs versus grayed out iron arrows.  To be fair I think this is something you would notice moreso while fighting epics and other such mobs, but 3 gold/stack isn't that bad, especially when you can be pretty much guaranteed of hitting the mob.  It's well worth the investment.

[Vladdax]

Good arrows are well worth it, I usually stick it on ranged autoattack as i'm moving out for my CA's. Why pass up the chance for an extra 500 - 1k dmg if you can get a few arrows off in between the CA's.

[Brianf]

I am happy with my assassin. I can solo out there in DoF pretty easily (up to yellow con solo...which is good enough for me). Had to change my strategy but now I think it may be even better than before.

 

1. Pull with Spitting Viper

2. hit with a couple debuffs/damage skills (not sure of names because I just dropped em into my spam damage macro)

3. HO macro

4. paralyzing strike

back off and either

5a. hit with Arrow CA from front, sidestep and hit with arrow CA from side, come back in and keep killing

or

5b. Mask of night and hit with a nice condemn or assassinate.

 

by the time this is over blue's are down, white are in low reds and yellows are well low yellow. hit with one more round of damage spamming and you get to move onto next target.

 

And does anyone else love the fact that every 15 minutes you get to 1 hit a mob?

Message Edited by Brianf67 on 09-16-2005 09:35 AM

[WhispersEdge]

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Graton wrote:

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WhispersEdge wrote:

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Darking wrote:

I am curious to what kind of weapons and gear you guys are using:

 

Paperdragon does around 190-200dps (on the cyclops fellas in a group with 293STR buffed)after the update, and he did 120ish before so all in all im happy..

 

But how the hell do you achieve 350dps????

 

Allright i dont have super all fabled gear nor ADEPT IIIs in everything but does it make such a huge difference??

 

PD's profile: http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=273448204

 

 

What do i need to do to gain 150+dps of damage increase?

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You dont look too bad PD, so dont fret. A fabled offhand would be nice, like a Lunar Ornate Spear. Those can drop off any x2 from what I have seen, so not too hard to upgrade your offhand. One thing I notice is iron arrows, you should try fulginate or indium, they add quite a bit to your bow damage. Also, use either withering spirit as a common poison, or decrepit stab if you have access to rare poisons cheap. The low initial high dot poisons are king, and will outdamage all other poisons if they just get 1 tic. Other tips: Make sure to always use Anathema *and* moor now, since the poison debuff is quite significant. You should be able to up your damage quite a bit by doing some of the things I said and maybe getting your hands on a better upgrade. Just hang in there

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unless it was changed with the revamp which is certainly possible, arrow quality doesn't affect CA dmg so unless you're using auto range attack a lot & kiting, buying indium arrows is a waste of money.

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Arrow quality did affect CA damage first off, FB used to hit for about half damage with inferior arrows. Secondly, I guess you havent grouped with a coercer after revamp? Inspect bow damage then come tell me its a waste of money, doing 1k dmg with autoattack I guess is a waste of cash.

[WhispersEdge]

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Brianf67 wrote:

I am happy with my assassin. I can solo out there in DoF pretty easily (up to yellow con solo...which is good enough for me). Had to change my strategy but now I think it may be even better than before.

1. Pull with Spitting Viper

2. hit with a couple debuffs/damage skills (not sure of names because I just dropped em into my spam damage macro)

3. HO macro

4. paralyzing strike

back off and either

5a. hit with Arrow CA from front, sidestep and hit with arrow CA from side, come back in and keep killing

or

5b. Mask of night and hit with a nice condemn or assassinate.

by the time this is over blue's are down, white are in low reds and yellows are well low yellow. hit with one more round of damage spamming and you get to move onto next target.

And does anyone else love the fact that every 15 minutes you get to 1 hit a mob?

Message Edited by Brianf67 on 09-16-2005 09:35 AM

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Try this little gem out next time you are soloing brian. 1.Pull with faltering blast 2.Immediately turn on bow autoattack as FB is casting 3. Moor when in range, back up until... 4. Autoattack hit #2 lands 5. Engage in melee, toss on anathema followed by paralyzing 6. Back up out of melee range and spin behind the mob, queuing up assassins shot 7. Assasins shot triggers, queue up spitting viper 8. Viper lands, queue up Improvised weapon 9. Move into melee range behind the mob as improvised is casting, it should land right as you get at the mobs back (this is why this ability is the best master 2 choice imo, it is just simply amazing) 10. Mask of night and follow it with whatever backstab you feel appropriate This sequence gan generate ridiculous amounts of damage. Enjoy~

[Han]

Hmmm I totally don't feel we were nerfed at all, the new combat changes work great for me. The bow arts kinda suck now I do admit, but its nothing to worry bout too much really. I've had a ton of fun both grouping and soloing. I mean MAN 15 min on Assassinate recharge That's just tooooooo nice. And the other abilities all seem to mesh well and fit right (For me personally of course)Keep trying, get used to the changes more, experiment, sort your knowledge book a different way, try doing it by category, so you can see everything you have laid out with the old and new abilities all together, and see if you maybe missed some. Experiment with both the offensive and defensive concentrations, makes a HUGE difference while soloing. Anyway, I'm loving it both for dueling and xping

[Trei]

["... 5. Engage in melee, toss on anathema followed by paralyzing 6. Back up out of melee range and spin behind the mob, queuing up assassins shot 7. Assasins shot triggers, queue up spitting viper 8. Viper lands, queue up Improvis ..."] Why root-and-backup so soon?  :smileywink: 5a. engage melee, start HO, advance with cheapshot 5b. jump over mob, complete HO with paralyzing strike 5c. mask + blood then 6. backup . . . :smileyhappy:

[lordka]

Honestly, from the RP aspect, I think Rangers SHOULD do more damage with bows.  Assassin's with blades.

 

And that seems to fit with what is in the game now since CU.  However, that doesn't mean we Assassin's are weaker.  We can hold our own.

[WhispersEdge]

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Trei49 wrote:["... 5. Engage in melee, toss on anathema followed by paralyzing 6. Back up out of melee range and spin behind the mob, queuing up assassins shot 7. Assasins shot triggers, queue up spitting viper 8. Viper lands, queue up Improvis ..."] Why root-and-backup so soon?  :smileywink: 5a. engage melee, start HO, advance with cheapshot 5b. jump over mob, complete HO with paralyzing strike 5c. mask + blood then 6. backup . . . :smileyhappy:

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If you want to add the ho go for it, I dont simply because ours do such crap damage and swindlers is a wash. As for why I dont stay in melee, when youre circling the mob, you get like 2 bow autoattacks I didnt list in there for upwards of 500+, its a lot more dmg than staying in melee. I probably should have added that in, it ends up being a lot more damage overall. Edited for not being able to spell

Message Edited by WhispersEdge on 09-16-2005 03:12 PM

[Trei]

["... As for why I dont stay in melee, when youre circling the mob, you get like 2 bow autoattacks I didnt list in there for upwards of 500+, its a lot more dmg than staying in melee ..."] hehe I believe you misunderstood  :smileytongue: You don't need to be circling anything to do that   You would already be behind the mob, so you can still do those 2 bow autoattacks while the first two ranged CAs are firing; the time frame involved is basically the same. The HO may be crap and stuff, but I have to use the cheapshot and paralyzingstrike to keep the combo going anyway, so its a 'might-as-well' kinda thing. All in all, 5a - c adds around 950+ damage to your combo chain, without the mob even getting to turn around yet.

Message Edited by Trei49 on 09-16-2005 05:05 PM

[WhispersEdge]

Cheap shot is really unreliable now, so I dont include it in there. I usually use it in its own separate combo since its so hit or miss and random. So to clarify, I was just including a sure thing and not just a lucky roll of the dice, although yes when CS works it is a nice addition

Message Edited by WhispersEdge on 09-17-2005 03:18 AM

[Jvaloth]

 

Bruisers did not get their DPS nerfed at ALL.

 

Bruiser I grouped with for 2 hours last night consistantly was at 480 dps...   I couldnt even come close to matching him on  ^ ^ ^'s or group encounters where I could AE.

 

If anything, assassin's still remain gimped.   We do far less damage than wizards and warlocks ,  we do less damage than Bruisers/Rangers/Brigands and bruisers can tank.   We remain a dps only, no utility class, and we're not even top 3 in the only thing we're supposed to do... and thats damage.

 

They need to lower the cast time on our AE's too. Most encounters where you need to AE are full of weak mobs that are already dead by the time we are able to stealth then wait for the AE to go off...  They need to put our bow skills back the way they were.  They need to decrease our assassinate recast to 5-10 minutes.   They need to increase the dmg proc on Exposing Mark and our Offensive stance.  THey need to up the damage on our poisons.   

 

They need to do alot...    As a DPS class we are completely and utterly inadequate versus other DPS counterparts (aside from the 1 fight Assassinate and Condemning Blade happen to be up...)

 

Keep an eye on your parsers...  we are not where we should be.

 

 

 

 

Message Edited by Jvaloth on 09-17-2005 08:38 AM

[Get]

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Jvaloth wrote:

Bruisers did not get their DPS nerfed at ALL.

Bruiser I grouped with for 2 hours last night consistantly was at 480 dps...   I couldnt even come close to matching him on  ^ ^ ^'s or group encounters where I could AE.

If anything, assassin's still remain gimped.   We do far less damage than wizards and warlocks ,  we do less damage than Bruisers/Rangers/Brigands and bruisers can tank.   We remain a dps only, no utility class, and we're not even top 3 in the only thing we're supposed to do... and thats damage.

They need to lower the cast time on our AE's too. Most encounters where you need to AE are full of weak mobs that are already dead by the time we are able to stealth then wait for the AE to go off...  They need to put our bow skills back the way they were.  They need to decrease our assassinate recast to 5-10 minutes.   They need to increase the dmg proc on Exposing Mark and our Offensive stance.  THey need to up the damage on our poisons.   

They need to do alot...    As a DPS class we are completely and utterly inadequate versus other DPS counterparts (aside from the 1 fight Assassinate and Condemning Blade happen to be up...)

Keep an eye on your parsers...  we are not where we should be.

 

Message Edited by Jvaloth on 09-17-2005 08:38 AM

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           /Agree              We did get upgraded though from revamp It is still a good revamp , atleast to us because we are doing better. Just if we are straight dps class with no utility.. believe we should be doing more dps than classes that can tank and taunt which is a powerful ability, espesially since we cant. edit----- the fix isnt to nerf other classes nerf are bad times. Just fix us.

Message Edited by Getre on 09-17-2005 02:25 PM

[Demonskill]

well i have constantly prasing whenever i group and kill. I prased myself being 280 avg dps, and a wizzy i grouped with i think he got ice comet adept 3 (not master 1 for sure) is doing 350 dps avg for sure. Now other post i read someone said they did 350 dps avg and ranger did 500 dps, since i wasn't prasing their fight so i don't give any comment about that. but i DID group with a ranger and he was doing as much dps as me at 280. but he was trying to hold back since he gets aggro often. i asked him if he can do close to 500 dps, he said it's possible, since one of his bow skill already hit for 2k for 1 hit.

[ERROR]

I'm not crying nerf here.. I guess I'm just looking to see what tactics other assassins are using in groups. Right now.. 2 swash's in my guild are out DPS'ing me by about 100 - 150. This is probably because they both have Master 1 Inspired Daring, which deals 100% proc for 13 seconds with a 3 minute recast That proc is adding 250 - 350 damage with each hit acording to them. That's quite a lot of added DPS. That's how I work it out in my head so that I can sleep at night anyway. lol So what's the deal... do we get an ability like that? I'm level 51 right now, so I want something to look foward to. Beta guys: Do we out dps Swash's at level 60 even with them having that massive proc? Because I thought I read that we were suposed to. Thanks in advance.

[Get]

timers are a major part of y i cant keep up. Half the fight im waiting on something to pop up so i can use it. i have sever minute or more spells. and the short ones push 36 secs. Its not so much that we were nerfed i dont believe we were. we are just gimped. differnece is we are a dps class no utility or hybrid ability. we should have short CAs with high dps none of this wait forever minute timer [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. if i am wrong plz explain to me y i will try to check this post so i can follow up.

[Skratttt]

they really need to take away the casting time of our aes....reason being is soo many mobs now ae mele atacks and casts that geting it off is nearly imposible now.....1 second cast maybe but its really takes too long.....

[Amise]

One thing I have noticed just from parsing in groups the past few days is that my DPS fluctuates wildly not only depending on Assassinate/CB/Bloodthirster refresh but also now on things like Cripple and Paralyzing Strike.  I'm parsing 200-500 DPS, which I think is just too big a gap between high and low. IMO the refresh on Cripple needs to come down to around one minute and CB should be about 3 instead of 5, Assassinate shouldn't be any longer than 10 minutes.   And the cast time on our AE attacks definitely needs to come down.  Since we have to be in stealth and be in the right position to be able to AE I think that we should not be facing a cast time of more than one second. Overall I think we're hugely improved, and our potential DPS is right where it should be, but there's a bit too much of a gap between potential and the reality, and that is caused by the overly high refresh times on our big damage attacks.  I'm fine with the fact that our DPS spikes the way it does but I also think the low end of the scale shouldn't be quite as low as it is. A lot of this could just be my fault though. I haven't grouped much at all for several months; have just been raiding and I'm kinda out of the habit of jockeying for position so maybe I'm just out of shape. =P  Either way I definitely think we're at a disadvantage when it comes to multi-mob encounters due to our slow-casting AE attacks and the fact that the high damage ones have such long refresh times.

Message Edited by Amise on 09-18-2005 04:06 AM

[Vladdax]

/agree Amise. Fighting with assassinateCBCrippleParalysingBloodthirser all up is great, then we have to wait another 5-15 minutes before we can do it again. Take CB down to 2 mins and bloodthirster down to 30 secs

[giladryn]

i see a lot of postings from people that are level 50, my guess is youve already got all the nice gear and uber attacks that our class is going to get, but as a 31 assassin, i dont have all of that. what really worries me is that though we did get improved in some ways we got jacked in others. half my ranged attacks are gone, and some of the good ones too. most of them i have to use while im behind the mob, and very few i can use while moving. sure to some of you with oodles of time this is not a problem because you can spend hours looking for a group, but what about the rest of the people who have limited amounts of playing time? i myself am on a pretty restrictive work schedule and do not have oodles of time to be LFG. my xp mainly comes from me soloing for a couple hours in the morning and again in the evening. if i cant effectively solo because i cant i cant generate enough damage and avoid enough hits because im not a tank, and i dont have time to be LFG for hours, how exactly is it that im supposed to get xp? my agi is already up to 134 with self buffs, at level 31 i think thats not too bad but even that is not exactly helping too much. i used to be able to take mobs at least one level above me and now im having a hard time with mobs even to me. yes, i have to get used to the new combat system, but even then im limited by the attacks that were taken from me. deadly shot a two arrow attack that deals 84 damage per arrow is not exactly a DEADLY attack. and what is up with making all the mobs con green again? i thought the advantage of getting higher in levels was so lower level mobs would quit bothering you. am i way off base here?

[Kimira]

From what I've seen.  These classes seem to be able to out dps us.

 

Conjurors, Rangers, (assume necro from guild chat parsing, but haven't grouped with any), Bezerkers (every 3 min rampage), Brigands/Swashies occasionaly, and Monks/Bruisers still rock in dps. 

It seems like we're in the second class on the DPS chart, with no utility.  It's a bummer =(

[Get]

We got some nice dps upgrads in revamp its just that everyclass  in game that goes melee did as well. I didnt use to be out dps by lesser dps scout classes, and  most mages. I like to think of myself laid back so i neva really had a prob b4 but now ppl thinkin you gimped bcause this and harder to find groups. just make tank classes tank, and us dps. lemme repeat lol. DPS = assassin. groovy

Message Edited by Getre on 09-19-2005 08:45 AM

[Brianf]

First, Entreri thanks for the chain...I'll try it out. I haven;t worked in improvised weapon yet (bad rat ) since it left such a bad taste b4.

 

Second, I also use the bow CA's to work around mob and try mask/punchblade as well if still held. I think I need to up some of my skills since right now my only AD3's are spitting viper, Condemning Blade and Punch Blade. Oh well, building up Plat in my endeavors so maybe it is shopping time again since I already found my AD1 of Deadly Blade the other night (and the rares are going for 4-5P each so no buying AD3 yet...)