Whattya guys think? Any hope for a ranger adjustment? realistic or not?

[dancer]

i know this gets beaten to death probbaly close to daily, whether its here on the boards or not.  Why are classes like brigands out dps'ing rangers fairly consistantly?  Brigands are brought to raids to debuff, rangers are brought to dps... why are they doing both and we're barely doing our job? 

 

/another [Removed for Content] off ranger because he cant get his place on the parse against classes that shouldnt be out parsing him. 

 

one parse, sure.. theres tons of variables.. but when it happens more often than not.  I call bbbbbsssssss

[Caliga]

Hmmm...I haven't noticed.  *Thanks Brell there are no high level brigands in her guild*

[Teksun]

We did Labs last night. All night parse order was:AssassinConjurorGuardianMonkRanger (me)/sighI thought I brought my 'A' game

[pseudocide]

the devs in this game have a good record of balancing classes (compared with other MMOs), i'm sure they see the problems rangers have, the question is how long will it take them to fix them and how much help it will be in the real world (of norrath).

[nirav21]

Last time i heared was on dev chat logs, that they know what most problems are but they are extremely bussy in maintenance and other stuff.

Personally, i think they are all playing vanguard :smileyindifferent:

[Aroumon]

There is only one thing broken with the ranger class, arrow consumtion..thats it. Our dps is teir 1 and its mostly based on skill...ask anybody from a high end raiding guild how well their rangers perform and they will say top notch..Im in Second Dawn and we carry two just because we own so much.

 

I am on the top of the parse for every boss in TFD and two out of the three KoS contested mobs and almost every boss in Eof both our rangers are either 1-4 on the parse..on big bosses you can bet we are in the top two.

 

We are not unbalanced from assassins..we do about the same damage as they do without the risk of always being in the fray and jousting thats awsome.

 

Okay here is the constructive part of the post. I will help you maximze your dps, as long as I collect the following information ( group buffs help but you can dps great with the crappiest of groups jsut gotta know what they can give you)

 

Average raid group set up:

 

What is your bow:

 

Do you have Focus Aim M1 or M2:

 

Double Attack:

 

Extension:

 

Do you "sit of 5" ( stay 5 meters away to make sure you get all your melee CAs and when you joust out from aes and back in do you go back to 5):

 

Do you use T7 crafted rings:

 

What is your Ranged skill at:

 

Answer these and I can help you tune up your ranger to be top dps, even if you don't have half of these you can geta dps increase.

 

Aroumon Swiftshot

Ranger 70

Second Dawn

[Shaulin Dolamite]

usually in raids our parsers look like this,

1.Brigand

2.Ranger

3.Ranger or Wiz

4.ranger ,wiz,warlock

With the brigand parsing 1900 dps ish usually.

[nirav21]

I agree with you, but this is what bothers me. Is that it takes tremendous skill( and i mean a lot of skill and spell knowledge)  and also gear(bows T7, T8 arrows) to maximize dps as Ranger. Assasins = 0 skill to do T1 dps.

Ironically this is also what i like about the challenge of Ranger class.

 

Message Edited by nirav21 on 01-20-2007 01:51 PM

[dancer]

well as for .. us not being broken.. then why is a utility class outdps'ing me fairly often?  i knwo your the greatest ranger to grace the earth but.  This is my 2nd ranger ive taken to level 70.  One here, one on a pvp server.  I'm also part of one of the two guilds competiting for the "premier" tag on our server.  Add in the fact that ive played since the day of launch id have to say i have a pretty good handle on the class......

[Gareorn]

---

Aroumon wrote:

There is only one thing broken with the ranger class, arrow consumtion..thats it. Our dps is teir 1 and its mostly based on skill...ask anybody from a high end raiding guild how well their rangers perform and they will say top notch..Im in Second Dawn and we carry two just because we own so much.

---

Actually, two things are broken not one.  You just don't recognize one because your not affected by it.  Itemization is also broke.  And you seemed to have confused that with skill.

 Your DPS is higher than some others only because you are in a raiding guild, which provides you the tools to be better.  You have a nice group set up almost every raid and you have the high end items that are only available to those in high end raiding guilds.

You are not in a raiding guild because you provide great DPS, you provide great DPS because you are in a raiding guild.

[Nulad]

So we can get consistant T1 DPS without needing a rare bow?

[Torrin]

---

Gareorn wrote:

---

Aroumon wrote:

There is only one thing broken with the ranger class, arrow consumtion..thats it. Our dps is teir 1 and its mostly based on skill...ask anybody from a high end raiding guild how well their rangers perform and they will say top notch..Im in Second Dawn and we carry two just because we own so much.

---

Actually, two things are broken not one.  You just don't recognize one because your not affected by it.  Itemization is also broke.  And you seemed to have confused that with skill.

 Your DPS is higher than some others only because you are in a raiding guild, which provides you the tools to be better.  You have a nice group set up almost every raid and you have the high end items that are only available to those in high end raiding guilds.

You are not in a raiding guild because you provide great DPS, you provide great DPS because you are in a raiding guild.

---

I agree with this statement.Myself am in the furthest progressed raid guild on a pvp server.  I have nice gear and mostly Masterd out.  Yet I get out parsed constantly by classes that simply should not be outparsing me.  For instance last night was helping a group doing some lower level x2 mobs. we had 1 group, 2 rangers (me 70, other 60ish), 2 Furies (68 & 70), 1 paladin (70), 1 Mystic (70).  I was losing every parse to the Furies, on top of their spot healing for the Paladin.  I had everything going.. Focus Aim, Killing Instinct, Honed Reflexes, Offensive stance, Caustic Poison, Str potion, Marr Diety pet up.. and was consistantly beaten on the parse by 200-500 dps.  I'd like someone to explain that one to me.  Yeah for a ranger to do top notch means having T7 raid bows including EoF bows and T8 Ammo.. but my gear compared to all those in my group was far far better.  All fabled with 2 pieces of PvP set (which is better than KoS Relic).. stand alone 75 haste mod buffed was around 130%+ and dps around 125%.  yet I was getting out parsed. even when using every big hit I had; Sniper Shot, Veiled Fire, Selection, RoA, Devitalize, Ranger Blade, Mortal Reminder (DoT), Emberflames.. I still could just barely beat the furies and I'm talking barely as in < 100dps ahead.  On our raids it's usually:ConjConjMT SwashIllusionistWarlockRangerMT MonkRangersometimes the better geared ranger in the guild gets up in the 1-4 bracket but not consistantly.  and he's got a 90+DR bow with a proc and full fabled. 

[Aroumon]

I didn't have a 90+ DR bow until EoF hit, before that I was using Darkfury Longbow a t6 fabled bow with a 78 DR and still was doing good dps gear does help yes...but you can't play the same if you have a 78 dr bow and a 90+ dr bow...what you do with a crappy bow to get dps is alot diffrent than what you do with a 90+ DR bow..its mostly skill..trust me..and nobody ansered my questions so I can't really help you then can I?

 

Aroumon Swiftshot

[TerriBlades]

There should be a better selection of bows in game. I dont believe they should be 100+ damage ratings, I dont believe they should be end game bows, but they should be better then common bows.

With that being said, EoF did bring us a few new bows, and thats a step in the right direction. However if you arent capable of killing venekor, amorphous drake and or tarinax(since the nerf, I imagine anyone can kill this chump now), do you really feel you deserve a better bow? For those that can kill the above mentioned, playing the waiting game for a bow to drop can be a realy PITA. Trust me I know all about the woes of being a ranger without a great bow. Everyone and thier mom could out dps you. However, once you have that bow, you slingshot back to the top of the list.

I'll be one of the first to say that there is nothing wrong with ranger dps, if the ranger has the right gear.

[Nulad]

---

TerriBlades wrote:

There should be a better selection of bows in game. I dont believe they should be 100+ damage ratings, I dont believe they should be end game bows, but they should be better then common bows.

With that being said, EoF did bring us a few new bows, and thats a step in the right direction. However if you arent capable of killing venekor, amorphous drake and or tarinax(since the nerf, I imagine anyone can kill this chump now), do you really feel you deserve a better bow? For those that can kill the above mentioned, playing the waiting game for a bow to drop can be a realy PITA. Trust me I know all about the woes of being a ranger without a great bow. Everyone and thier mom could out dps you. However, once you have that bow, you slingshot back to the top of the list.

I'll be one of the first to say that there is nothing wrong with ranger dps, if the ranger has the right gear.

---

But the entire class being balanced due to a very small percentage of top end Rangers who are lucky enough to see these bows that put them back at the top of the DPS pile? That just doesnt sound right to me.

[kartikeya]

Agreed with what most people are saying. The two problems are this: Ammo consumption and itemization.

I am not in a raiding guild, however, I do raid constantly with a Tarinax/Venekor capable guild. When they first started out, I rode the top of the DPS list, just behind the other (better geared) ranger. As more and more of the guild became fabled, however, I steadily dropped, and dropped, and dropped on the DPS charts. By the time Labs was on farm status, the Necromancer and brigand were consistently hitting the top of the list. Now, it's a struggle just to make the list at all.

There needs to be something between Grizzlfazzles/Rain Caller and the endgame 100+ DR bows. Wurm Destroyer is a joke. Right now both I and the other ranger are using Rain Caller (he finally got his hands on Ichorstrand at least). The fact that we're using a T6 fabled bow until we can get THE best bows in the game, with nothing in between, is really screwed up.

[Gerdos]

There's 6 fabled longbows b/w the Raincaller and 100+ bows.

Raincaller > Darkfury > Bazkul >  2x cube bows > 2x EH bows >>>  (100+) Sarnak > Corruption > Star Darkened

Goodluck.

(edited to add Darkfury)

Message Edited by Gerdos on 01-21-2007 11:33 AM

[TerriBlades]

---

Nuladen wrote:

But the entire class being balanced due to a very small percentage of top end Rangers who are lucky enough to see these bows that put them back at the top of the DPS pile? That just doesnt sound right to me.

---

The entire end game is balance that way. Raiding rangers can compete with other raiding classes and be very successful at their jobs. The biggest problem was that in KoS, there were only 2 bows that would allow for that. Venekor and Tarinax. If you're fighting Tarinax that you would have been doing end game stuff. If you were killing Venekor, you were prolly capable of having DT access. The real problem is that even if you're killing both of those mobs every week, you're still very unlikely to see either bow. Then FD came out, and we found there to be another bow of Matron. How many ppl are really going to see that bow? 1 or 2 guilds per server?

We have already seen at least 2? new good bows in EoF? Problem with that? If you cant kill the KoS mobs, you'll prolly never see that either. However, it would seem that the likelyhood of seeing a bow in EoF is greater, if you can handle the content.

I did say in my previous post there should be other bows available. Midgrade bows if you will. I dont think a raid ranger killing the hardest mobs in the game should have to worry about being outdps'ed by the ranger that hasnt been able to clear KoS. The gap shouldnt be as large as it is, but there should be a gap. Otherwise, what would be the point? There are alot of great ppl here, that raid often, that either waited forever to get there high end bow, or still havent gotten one. It sucks, it must have taken 3 months of killing Venekor before Sarnak dropped for us. I still dont think we've seen Bazkul, and if memory serves me right, only 1 Ichorstrand. I think alot of rangers have paid their dues for their bows.

The bottom line is, Rangers dont need adjustments, the itemization needs to be looked at. The gear thats dropping should prolly be looked at, the rate at which the gear drops should prolly be looked at, but rangers themselves are okay. And like it or not, there are some players out there, that even with the best gear, that will still suck. Its usually not about skill, its usually about gear, but there is a small percentage of players that just cant get a handle on how to play their toons. The way I see it, folks have to fall into one or the other. So if you have great gear and still cant make it to the top of the parse, ya might wanna start looking at the other reason you cant make it to the top.

[Gnome mercy]

Honestly, quick and simple fix, let our poisons proc multiple times on the same CA, I loved the old days when i could shoot off autoattack then launch triple shot and the ^^^ heroic mob was halfway health thanks to all the procs that went off

[TerriBlades]

 

---

Gnome mercy wrote:
Honestly, quick and simple fix, let our poisons proc multiple times on the same CA, I loved the old days when i could shoot off autoattack then launch triple shot and the ^^^ heroic mob was halfway health thanks to all the procs that went off

---

You certainly wouldnt hear agruements from me on the subject. I fully support that. If we have to consume 3 arrows for our Triple Shot, we should get 3 checks for procs. The problem with that in the past was that our proc rates were so much higher then everyone elses due to the fact it was based off weapon speeds. With everything being "normalized", our mulitshots should each have a chance to proc. Like I said, if we can use 3 arrows out of our quiver.. and have the potential to miss, we should also have the procs back!

[Merkad]

I am going to concur with Gareorn primarily, though, like Aroumon said, I do think skill plays a large part of it, and like TerriBlades said, I think some people are just not at the top of their game skillwise (too many actually).I would like to see more bows with the 80-90DR range.. iirc only the Sinew Wrapped Longbow is in the 80s, and that only because it was lowered along with most other gear. Aside from that.. I guess I can't complain, as EoF appears to be adressing my concerns with drops on bows (though aside from raid ones, no 80-90DR ones). Like some others, I spent all of KoS with a Grizzfazzle and t7 ammo, and it can be rough when you are not getting upgrades outside of Masters, though honestly, even with those I still parsed decently enough (granted, no where close to where I do today). High end Rangers are fine, perhaps (so I read) a few classes parse better than they should (I don't know, as only one person in my guild is currently giving me any sort of challenge (our Conjuror, who I guess counts )), I know that I have not failed to come in first on the zone wide since I got my ASWB (with Bazkul for ammo), and usually by a fair amount. Since I am on Najena with Second Dawn, I can't claim to be the best (honestly not second or even third, probably fourth or fifth though) guild on the server, but I would like to think we are able enough.This said, it just means one thing, it is not a Ranger adjustment that is needed, just itemization and ammo consumption for mid grade Rangers (weapon quality, not skill/level et cetera).Merkades, 70th Ranger.Siege, Najena.

[Nulad]

---

TerriBlades wrote:

---

Nuladen wrote:

But the entire class being balanced due to a very small percentage of top end Rangers who are lucky enough to see these bows that put them back at the top of the DPS pile? That just doesnt sound right to me.

---

The entire end game is balance that way. Raiding rangers can compete with other raiding classes and be very successful at their jobs. The biggest problem was that in KoS, there were only 2 bows that would allow for that. Venekor and Tarinax. If you're fighting Tarinax that you would have been doing end game stuff. If you were killing Venekor, you were prolly capable of having DT access. The real problem is that even if you're killing both of those mobs every week, you're still very unlikely to see either bow. Then FD came out, and we found there to be another bow of Matron. How many ppl are really going to see that bow? 1 or 2 guilds per server?

We have already seen at least 2? new good bows in EoF? Problem with that? If you cant kill the KoS mobs, you'll prolly never see that either. However, it would seem that the likelyhood of seeing a bow in EoF is greater, if you can handle the content.

I did say in my previous post there should be other bows available. Midgrade bows if you will. I dont think a raid ranger killing the hardest mobs in the game should have to worry about being outdps'ed by the ranger that hasnt been able to clear KoS. The gap shouldnt be as large as it is, but there should be a gap. Otherwise, what would be the point? There are alot of great ppl here, that raid often, that either waited forever to get there high end bow, or still havent gotten one. It sucks, it must have taken 3 months of killing Venekor before Sarnak dropped for us. I still dont think we've seen Bazkul, and if memory serves me right, only 1 Ichorstrand. I think alot of rangers have paid their dues for their bows.

The bottom line is, Rangers dont need adjustments, the itemization needs to be looked at. The gear thats dropping should prolly be looked at, the rate at which the gear drops should prolly be looked at, but rangers themselves are okay. And like it or not, there are some players out there, that even with the best gear, that will still suck. Its usually not about skill, its usually about gear, but there is a small percentage of players that just cant get a handle on how to play their toons. The way I see it, folks have to fall into one or the other. So if you have great gear and still cant make it to the top of the parse, ya might wanna start looking at the other reason you cant make it to the top.

---

So, just to be clear, in a theoretical raid with nobody kitted out with any Fabled gear Rangers should be top of the parse or at least close to and most definetly T1 and it's the imbalance via the number of bows that is causing the majority of DPS issues we see posted?By the way, I'm not arguing here, only trying to understand.  I've done a few raids and I'm no where near kitted out well in my opinion but I was consistantly on the parse, albeit with somewhat lower numbers than I see some of you posting.

[blackdog1]

I think one simple fix would help us out alot.Give us back sniper shot.This I thought was our big nuke.But with that 15 min. timer it is on.And for me, avg.5500/hit,EVERY other CA I have out performs it over 15 min.I mean come on Confounding arrow does 800+/shot on like a 1 min. timer.Thats around 12000 dam over 15 min. Cut that use timer in half.And Cut that 15 min to like 1 or 2 min.Or Amp up the damage by alot.Why does it seem every other DP class has a nuke on a much shorter timer than us with more damage?Imagine Sniper Shot on a 1 min.timer.Wouldn't that really increase our damage closer to the other classes without giving us a 1 shot kill CA for solo fighting? This seems like a very simple fix to me.Just an Idea.If you see problems with it feel free.

[Zholain]

---

Nuladen wrote:

So, just to be clear, in a theoretical raid with nobody kitted out with any Fabled gear Rangers should be top of the parse or at least close to and most definetly T1 and it's the imbalance via the number of bows that is causing the majority of DPS issues we see posted?By the way, I'm not arguing here, only trying to understand.  I've done a few raids and I'm no where near kitted out well in my opinion but I was consistantly on the parse, albeit with somewhat lower numbers than I see some of you posting.

---

Sort of.  Look at it like this, using Laboratory of Lord Vyemm as an example since it's a zone that most likely most of us have seen and/or cleared.How many duel-wields drop there?  I can think of 4 off the top of my head. (Absolution, Adamantine Dragonfang, Vyemm's Fang, and Oblivion's Edge)How many two-handers drop there?  Again, 3 that I can think of.How many one handers?  Several.Mage staffs?  I'll give them this one, since I can only think of 1 that we've seen, although it's quite nice.Bows?  1 (Wurm Destroyer).  And it is without a doubt the lousiest fabled bow in the game for it's tier.Take those numbers, and then consider the number of people in each raid that can use those different weapon types.And Labs is a perfect representaion of every other zone in the game.  As others have said, arrow consumption and itemization are the two biggest contributors to ranger frustration.EDIT:  Remembered another duel-wield.

Message Edited by Zholain on 01-21-2007 03:42 PM

[LoreLady]

Itemization is a big problem for rangers - as well as the lack of ranged buffs, most are melee only.But the way my parsings usually look like are..WizardWizard/ranger/assassin (they mix up)RangerAssassinAnd whatever else follows below..But then again, there was a time where a paly was top parse at 1.4k (And I just HAD to go afk during that fight too )

Message Edited by LoreLady on 01-21-2007 03:51 PM

[Teksun]

---

Aroumon wrote:

There is only one thing broken with the ranger class, arrow consumtion..thats it. Our dps is teir 1 and its mostly based on skill...ask anybody from a high end raiding guild how well their rangers perform and they will say top notch..Im in Second Dawn and we carry two just because we own so much.

 

I am on the top of the parse for every boss in TFD and two out of the three KoS contested mobs and almost every boss in Eof both our rangers are either 1-4 on the parse..on big bosses you can bet we are in the top two.

 

We are not unbalanced from assassins..we do about the same damage as they do without the risk of always being in the fray and jousting thats awsome.

 

Okay here is the constructive part of the post. I will help you maximze your dps, as long as I collect the following information ( group buffs help but you can dps great with the crappiest of groups jsut gotta know what they can give you)

 

Average raid group set up:

 

What is your bow:

 

Do you have Focus Aim M1 or M2:

 

Double Attack:

 

Extension:

 

Do you "sit of 5" ( stay 5 meters away to make sure you get all your melee CAs and when you joust out from aes and back in do you go back to 5):

 

Do you use T7 crafted rings:

 

What is your Ranged skill at:

 

Answer these and I can help you tune up your ranger to be top dps, even if you don't have half of these you can geta dps increase.

 

Aroumon Swiftshot

Ranger 70

Second Dawn

---

My point is (adding to my earlier post), we are all in the same guild, hit all the same raids. Being out-DPS'd by tanks should not happen. If there ear is that much more than mine, than there is a problem with the drop ratio...Most people are in the same boat. We are in guilds, we do the same raids, equipment should NOT be that much different, therefore, we should be on equal terms in abilities...

[Hisvet]

I use Grizzlefazzle with a +12 pierce sinew, I've had Grizzle since July, I never picked up Bylze I took the shield instead unluckily.  I have wurmdestroyer but do not use it.  I have Raincaller which I use for soloing or if we have no enchanters or fear of needing the MT to really control things but want the stunning (its very rare and situational, Its usally all Grizzle)

Focus Aim is Master 2

I have the full Multishot line barring a filled out stream of arrows

I have the full focus line

I have 5 caustic

I use the Int and Agil lines in Predator tree

I use Reinekelters (or however its spelled) and a str acrylia ring

My ranged without my CA buffage is 345

Whether or not I sit in the 5 is situational to the mobs and raid dependent on aoes and group tactics.  In something like the labs sure I like to get ranger blade and masterstrikes in.  In something like Talendor I stay ranged and fill in the between time reuse CAs with Stream or honed and auto.

I use GM caustic and a debuff poisons (coordinated with other scouts to spread it so we cover all the debuff poisons)

Normal group: inquisitor, usually 1-2 other rangers, a tank usually a monk  and sometimes if we're lucky with a wizard or bezerker often times it might be something that doesn't help our str/int at all necro.  It is not unusual in a raid group to get nothing but mitigation buffs and haste.  I use fortitude potions then.

I'm always in the top 10 if I fire the bow.  I'm often in the top 5.  I can occasionally stay in top 3 if I'm given a blessed group in my own guild fighting it out with a swashbuckler (who is normally 1, the assassin [much better stats both have] and a wizard).  But I work so hard, take so many potions and poisons (if I even have one fight without that GM caustic I'm down 3 or 5 slots)  In other guilds that drops quite a bit with those who have better group buffs Brigands, swashies, bezerks, necros, conjs, assassins all out dps me.

Been doing HoS since June and Deathtoll since Oct.  No sign of a bow dropping at all.  If it does I'll be competing with 5 other rangers for it. 

Scintillating dust isn't cheap on our server (20-40gp each dust) poisons are pricey, arrows, always.  I was asked by a random stranger what sort of money a lvl 70 ranger makes, I had 12gp on me (that included the bank) at the time coming off of a raid.  I just had to laugh.  Haven't gotten any gear off a raid since Oct 14th only upgrades have been quested.

I know I'm not the best ranger on my server.  I'm always looking for ways to improve but you can't beat bad itemization.  I've more than paid my dues I've paid endowments and still not seen any bow (not a single one not sinew not anything) better than Grizzles.  I'm a very angry ranger.

 

 

 

 

Message Edited by Hisvet on 01-22-2007 09:36 AM

[Ranja]

---

Hisvet wrote:

I use Grizzlefazzle with a +12 pierce sinew, I've had Grizzle since July, I never picked up Bylze I took the shield instead unluckily.  I have wurmdestroyer but do not use it.  I have Raincaller which I use for soloing or if we have no enchanters or fear of needing the MT to really control things but want the stunning (its very rare and situational, Its usally all Grizzle)

Focus Aim is Master 2

I have the full Multishot line barring a filled out stream of arrows

I have the full focus line

I have 5 caustic

I use the Int and Agil lines in Predator tree

I use Reinekelters (or however its spelled) and a str acrylia ring

My ranged without my CA buffage is 345

Whether or not I sit in the 5 is situational to the mobs and raid dependent on aoes and group tactics.  In something like the labs sure I like to get ranger blade and masterstrikes in.  In something like Talendor I stay ranged and fill in the between time reuse CAs with Stream or honed and auto.

I use GM caustic and a debuff poisons (coordinated with other scouts to spread it so we cover all the debuff poisons)

Normal group: inquisitor, usually 1-2 other rangers, a tank usually a monk  and sometimes if we're lucky with a wizard or bezerker often times it might be something that doesn't help our str/int at all necro.  It is not unusual in a raid group to get nothing but mitigation buffs and haste.  I use fortitude potions then.

I'm always in the top 10 if I fire the bow.  I'm often in the top 5.  I can occasionally stay in top 3 if I'm given a blessed group in my own guild fighting it out with a swashbuckler (who is normally 1, the assassin [much better stats both have] and a wizard).  But I work so hard, take so many potions and poisons (if I even have one fight without that GM caustic I'm down 3 or 5 slots)  In other guilds that drops quite a bit with those who have better group buffs Brigands, swashies, bezerks, necros, conjs, assassins all out dps me.

Been doing HoS since June and Deathtoll since Oct.  No sign of a bow dropping at all.  If it does I'll be competing with 5 other rangers for it. 

Scintillating dust isn't cheap on our server (20-40gp each dust) poisons are pricey, arrows, always.  I was asked by a random stranger what sort of money a lvl 70 ranger makes, I had 12gp on me (that included the bank) at the time coming off of a raid.  I just had to laugh.  Haven't gotten any gear off a raid since Oct 14th only upgrades have been quested.

I know I'm not the best ranger on my server.  I'm always looking for ways to improve but you can't beat bad itemization.  I've more than paid my dues I've paid endowments and still not seen any bow (not a single one not sinew not anything) better than Grizzles.  I'm a very angry ranger.

Message Edited by Hisvet on 01-22-2007 09:36 AM

---

You might want to switch to RC for good and drop Grizzle. Here is why The high end damage on RC is much higher therefore you will score much higer crits. I have parsed both extensively and my DPS is muich better with RC. It is the same reasoning why the GDoH is the best DW for scouts. High end damage FTW

[Hisvet]

Raincaller is NOT on option for a mewhen raiding.  It screws up enchanters and it screws with pulling and positioning mobs.  I've seen wipes caused by inappropriate stunning of mobs where you have buffs, heals and timing dependant on handling that target.  Add to that its multiple target stunning and it does not make for a good raid if its about precision.  I use raincaller maybe 5% of the time on a raid because it interferes with everyone else and we've asked the assassin and others who can use it to remove the bow because it will proc off of melee if its in your ranged slot.

 

Our bows are just like a guardians weapons, we use different ones for different jobs to my mind.  I keep 3 on me currently and hotbar them.

 

My own parsing hasn't shown a superiority yet.  I proc a lot for one thing which makes Grizzle rather decent.  Grizzle is mediocre but it has a great proc and the difference in high end damage between the two is all but neglible  394 Rain vs 340 Grizzle is not like a Sarnak or even the Ghost Bow.  They seem to be about even, but I'll keep an eye on it, I don't think it will matter though as its not welcomed in most of the raids.

 

I'd say if I can stay where I am doing damage with a stupid bow and not all fabled I'm doing pretty well it seems I only fall behind due to others gearing beyond me.  I want my 2 good bows for raiding. 

Message Edited by Hisvet on 01-22-2007 12:04 PM

[Balerius]

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Hisvet wrote:

I know I'm not the best ranger on my server.  I'm always looking for ways to improve but you can't beat bad itemization.  I've more than paid my dues I've paid endowments and still not seen any bow (not a single one not sinew not anything) better than Grizzles.  I'm a very angry ranger.

Message Edited by Hisvet on 01-22-2007 09:36 AM

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In what way have you more than paid your dues?  According to you, you're guild has only been doing DT since October...meaning you've probably killed Tarinax fewer than 10 times....you personally possibly quite a bit less.  In what way is a drop rate of a bow per 10 or so Tarinax kills too low?  What rate do you think it should be?  Do you think it should drop in every chest if Tarinax is killed?  The drop rate of bows off Tarinax is in line with other items he drops...like boots.

Look, I can agree there should maybe be a bow better than Grizfazzle or Raincaller drop in Labs, and a better one than what drops in Lyceum.  But don't forget that there are two decent bows that drop off of some of the easiest "raid" mobs in the game (the Heartsinger bows).

But having said that, I don't understand this entitlement mentality where someone thinks that just because he/she kills a mob whose loot table includes one of the best items in the game for his/her class they believe it should drop practivcally every time.  Put in the effort to kill Tarinax 20 or so times with no bow, and I might have more sympathy.