Arrows - bloody hell - Page 6

Xeph · 01-12-2007, 11:57 PM

Due to lack of developer support for this issue I will be playing Vanguard regardless of the situation over there. How's that for ultimate frustration. I'm sorry it had to come to this but I just don't appreciate the lack of support for your "valued" customers. I was looking at graphs for MMO active subscriptions recently and I was shocked at how the population of this game has declined since it's peak a year ago. Couple this with seeing other games like WoW continuing to gain ground... it should be very obvious to developers what the problem is. Very good attempt guys, I really have enjoyed most of my time here due to the people I've met (not the support we received as Rangers obviously). If I sound bitter well... that's to be expected with the cone of silence on valid issues across the board. Please be advised that paying customers expect communication from support on troublesome issues. Even if it is "hey we can't fix that, sorry" at least we know. To you execs making the (poor) decision to not communicate... just look at your shrinking population.

To the flamers and execs in denial... http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1.html

In closing let me say...

Nah Nah Nah Nah!

Hey Hey Hey!

Vanguard!

*Parade wave*

BSbon · 01-13-2007, 01:44 AM

this one is easier to read

http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html

Xeph · 01-13-2007, 01:59 AM

You are correct Bongo. I was trying to show the explosive growth of that other MMO we all love to hate without mentioning the vast gap directly *hehe*.

btw I'll miss seeing you around here man. You've made some very good points without resorting to flame wars and the like. Hope you keep up the comics too!

I was frustrated when writing my post obviously. I apologize if I've offended any devs. I understand that your hands are tied on a lot of this stuff and this is your job; whereas this is our beloved recreation. Take care fellow Rangers and best of luck in the future.

Monstage · 01-13-2007, 02:27 AM

Beaten by toontown online. Thats just...sad.

After seeing all the problems highlighted on these forums and the constant destabilising changes/nerfs (especially the nerfs) I am beginnning to think that this game should have had another year of balancing and tweaking before even going to beta. There have been far, far to many changes. Fair enough, it's nice to face new challenges but they should be from the quests and raid mobs we are facing, not from having to relearn the combat system every 2 months and having to struggle over important issues with a non-responsive development team. I mean I only have to say one word....arrows....to prove my point there.

SOE, you should realise that there are people playing their characters to the limit and finding all sorts of flaws and problems which genuinely need looking into. People have far,far more time playing their respective classes than you do because you are busy writing and developing the game. Of course we dont expect perfection, thats impossible. I am not saying give everybody what they want all the time, of course not. Just let us know that issues are being dealt with and actually show that you are listening. After all we ARE paying customers.

If you were to go out, buy a TV, got it home and it didnt work and then took it back to the shop and told the guy in the store the problem and he just stares at you blankly, not even showing any interest in what you are saying then you would have to assume that they don't give a toss and you definately would not go back there again would you? Well thats how many rangers are feeling right now and as a result people are leaving the game, not just switching toons but actually closing accounts and going elsewhere and as you can see from that chart, there are plenty of other places to go (even discounting the WoWcancer that is taking over the world).

It's such a shame because you have made a really nice world with interesting lore, pretty graphics, good music and a dynamic combat system. There is the potential here to be great, not just good. Unfortunately you have really, really got to learn to communicate with your customers. Every now and then a red name on the forums does help belive it or not, even if you can't say much because of contractual reasons, but you must, MUST follow up the words with actions at some point. Just saying "we are looking ito it" and leaving it at that is just not enough.

Personally I wont be leaving the game. This isn't a dear John letter. I like to many aspects of it to give it up but I just find it really disappointing to see how low the player numbers are and hope that the whole game wont just die a long, slow, protracted death.

Oh, and by the way, when you make changes that can cause multiple deaths to raids/groups at least have the common decency to let people know about the changes you have made. I am talking about surveillance here and you know it. That was just plain unfair to so many people.

BSbon · 01-13-2007, 07:53 AM

Xephre wrote:

You are correct Bongo. I was trying to show the explosive growth of that other MMO we all love to hate without mentioning the vast gap directly *hehe*.

btw I'll miss seeing you around here man. You've made some very good points without resorting to flame wars and the like. Hope you keep up the comics too!

I was frustrated when writing my post obviously. I apologize if I've offended any devs. I understand that your hands are tied on a lot of this stuff and this is your job; whereas this is our beloved recreation. Take care fellow Rangers and best of luck in the future.

i try not to attack people. when you do you just proved that thier argument is valid and you have nothing but insults left. and vanguard is coming out soon. i'll be trying it out after its out for a few months. if i like it more than eq2 i'll be switching but i'll always make comics SMILEY

Off · 01-13-2007, 10:47 AM

I've sent in /feedback before requesting that an AA change be implemented for only one thing that really sticks out in my mind. Instead of the Reclaim AA, include Endless Quiver in this game. Those of you who played EQ1 will know what that is. The cost of arrows is high enough as it is for a soloer/non-raider; get a Ranger who raids and that cost more than doubles. The recast timers on the summon arrow skills and its upgrades are rediculously long at 10 minutes, the amount of arrows summoned per cast is puny, and good for only a few fights if you have only the adept I version. Will Endless Quiver be implemented? I really hope so. yet, only SOE can answer that one. My theory is that if you don't ask, you'll never know. I love playing the Ranger though, and though arrows is of big concern, each class out there has it's own downfalls.

Gnome mercy · 01-13-2007, 12:01 PM

Offem wrote:
I've sent in /feedback before requesting that an AA change be implemented for only one thing that really sticks out in my mind. Instead of the Reclaim AA, include Endless Quiver in this game. Those of you who played EQ1 will know what that is. The cost of arrows is high enough as it is for a soloer/non-raider; get a Ranger who raids and that cost more than doubles. The recast timers on the summon arrow skills and its upgrades are rediculously long at 10 minutes, the amount of arrows summoned per cast is puny, and good for only a few fights if you have only the adept I version. Will Endless Quiver be implemented? I really hope so. yet, only SOE can answer that one. My theory is that if you don't ask, you'll never know. I love playing the Ranger though, and though arrows is of big concern, each class out there has it's own downfalls.

they wont do it I've said this many times before, endless quiver they felt was a huge mistake in eq1 it overpowered rangers there it will overpower us here back in eq1 they all had to make arrows for a long time until EQ came out and months after it was out it was already being overused and very overpowered to rangers, didnt help that they also made AM3 which nearly tripled the damage output they were doing before AM3 but it all happened like that cause rangers just werent enough dps without it, but as i have said before I highly doubt they will put in EQ in eq2. They made that mistake once they probably too afraid to make it again, but who knows we might get lucky and they will do it and like the last expansion that came out make arrows that are special and will not work with EQ and use up ammo anyways, that would be interesting

Nulad · 01-13-2007, 02:07 PM

Endless quiver wasn't the mistake, the overpowered rare arrows were... (don't shoot me, it's only my opinion... lol)

kartikeya · 01-13-2007, 10:03 PM

Again, what people are ignoring about Endless Quiver is that the rangers in EQ1 were NOT purely or mostly archery based. Prior to the release of Luclin we did our damage in melee, and ranged was very, very weak, used only for pulling or for (very long) kite sessions. Giving Endless Quiver to rangers in EQ1 along with the archery AA's and the special arrows would be like giving assassins all of our ranged CA's, Endless Quiver, and super arrows.

Giving Endless Quiver to rangers now would be like, um...uh...every other class in the game. We don't have special arrows. Even the T8 ammo only brings us up to match everyone else, and the T8 bows practically are an Endless Quiver already. If they wanted to add special arrows, I'm sure there's the capability to make Endless Quiver not work on them, but right now, I'd rather they focus on fixing the problems with the arrows we have now, rather than us sit and say 'but if they do this, then they won't be able to do suchandsuch thing that currently doesn't exist and may never exist at all'. Running out of arrows isn't a 'balance' feature. I daresay most rangers that have this problem make sure they are stocked up before a raid, it just costs an arm and a leg simply to do damage that any other class can do for free (And don't talk about poisons, we have to buy poisons too. Take away poisons from a scout and they'll do less damage, take away arrows from a ranger and it's like you've given them Nerf(c) daggers to try and stab with.)

Gnome mercy · 01-14-2007, 10:48 AM

Nuladen wrote:
Endless quiver wasn't the mistake, the overpowered rare arrows were... (don't shoot me, it's only my opinion... lol)

this could be true. I cna agree there that the what 11dmg arrows + 2 or 3 of the other damage arrows did make the difference, bigtime. Who knows maybe we will get lucky enough to hear from a dev and tell us what they think about all this and what their plans our for our future

Azrael_888 · 01-14-2007, 11:02 AM

I think what your missing here is that not every ranger can get an Ichor or some other T8 ammo summoning bow. WOODWORKERS SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE T8 AMMO PERIOD. But we can't. When we make arrows we shouldn't have to struggle for 4 progress bars to only make 25 in one batch. It's a waste of time and the cost/profit ratio is too high. Buy em off the vendor. Hell I know rangers lvl 70 t8 raiding rangers that buy TIN Arrows! TIN for Christ sakes because they can't afford to use their summoned arrows in grps running through instances or afford t7 ammo from the vendor. Endless quivers aren't the answer cause they'll be nerfed with t5 ammo or something of the like. Increasing the the arrow summoning spells to something like 100 for M1 and the like would be a great start and dropping the recast to 8 min or so would be even better (and I'm talking WITHOUT AA's God that AA thing is so much BULL[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn])All in all if woodworkers could make 75 arrows per 4 progress bar bushels and give them some T8 arrow making spells w/o having to use rares it would make it more cost effective to "waste" the time to make a couple thousand arrows in as little as half an hour as compared to making only 1500 or so in an hour now (based on making 25 arrows every 2 min averaged)And lower the cost of sandpaper while your at it! I mean christ did God himself make it imbued with special properties? or maybe make a special arrow only sandpaper for at least t7 ammo since they wont give wooworkes a way to make t8 ammo.

Gnome mercy · 01-14-2007, 11:39 AM

Azrael_888 wrote:
I think what your missing here is that not every ranger can get an Ichor or some other T8 ammo summoning bow.

WOODWORKERS SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE T8 AMMO PERIOD. But we can't. When we make arrows we shouldn't have to struggle for 4 progress bars to only make 25 in one batch. It's a waste of time and the cost/profit ratio is too high. Buy em off the vendor. Hell I know rangers lvl 70 t8 raiding rangers that buy TIN Arrows! TIN for Christ sakes because they can't afford to use their summoned arrows in grps running through instances or afford t7 ammo from the vendor.

Endless quivers aren't the answer cause they'll be nerfed with t5 ammo or something of the like. Increasing the the arrow summoning spells to something like 100 for M1 and the like would be a great start and dropping the recast to 8 min or so would be even better (and I'm talking WITHOUT AA's God that AA thing is so much BULL[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn])

All in all if woodworkers could make 75 arrows per 4 progress bar bushels and give them some T8 arrow making spells w/o having to use rares it would make it more cost effective to "waste" the time to make a couple thousand arrows in as little as half an hour as compared to making only 1500 or so in an hour now (based on making 25 arrows every 2 min averaged)

And lower the cost of sandpaper while your at it! I mean christ did God himself make it imbued with special properties? or maybe make a special arrow only sandpaper for at least t7 ammo since they wont give wooworkes a way to make t8 ammo.

God thought it would make great toilet paper, just take and staple some to your floor and then watch is in less than 2 weeks your dog will never rub his [Removed for Content] on your carpet again, [Removed for Content]

Although tin!? Your dps would drop so much they wouldn't even worth the 1cp spent per arrow if anything id go a higher tier or just suck it up and use your summoned arrows. I know right now its really hard times but theres gotta be somewhere to get some cheap [Removed for Content] arrows, also i think that woodworkers should get the benefeit or making more than 25 arrows per make in EQ1 they made a whole stack (which in EQ1 was only 20 arrows) but in EQ1 also arrows werent used half as much as EQ2, so maybe a whole lot more let woodworkers make 99 arrows per comebine that would actually give them some profit and us some decent arrows to buy cheaper than usual

Gnome mercy · 01-15-2007, 02:54 AM

Sorry for the double post but I halfto add this:

I think we are focusing too much on the AP's. If you ask me we should not halfto focus on them cause as far as it goes the devs strictly said when they came out that AP's were made to help us become different from the rest, maybe some kind of CA buff or something or just take the arrow semantics out of our ranged CAs and just not need us to use arrows while using our ranged CAs, I don't mind using them in autoattack for the very simple reason, the arrows actually help our ranged dps, but no matter what arrow you use our CAs will always deal the same exact damage. So why pay for it if our arrows dont change our ranged CA damage? Now thats what bugs me

nirav21 · 01-18-2007, 10:28 PM

I am gona try to bump this thread to top of the page.

I belive that this is Ranger's number 1 problem.

I would also like to sum up some points others suggested.

making arrow crafting to 99 per 1 crafting period.

lowering the price of crafted arrows.

more arrows per Summoning CA.

Monstage · 01-18-2007, 10:40 PM

I agree. We should keep reminding everybody that the problem is still here.

Personally I have been reporting the arrow problem as a bug and will keep doing so until something is done. If there are 50-100 bug reports everyday from fed-up rangers then we shouldnt be ignored.

Loki_d20 · 01-19-2007, 12:07 AM

As a newb ranger who previously posted on this thread as 'not a ranger,' I think there are some possibilities to be had.The first issue is that it really isn't at all worthwhile for woodworkers to make arrows except to sell at ridiculous prices due to the supply and demand of them by rangers. As a ranger/woodworker who thought it would save him time and money to just craft his own arrows, I was greatly disappointed to see that I spent more time and effort on making the arrows than it was worth to just buy them or take up jewelcraft and makeshift some arrows while I was working on making myself some combat art upgrades and jewelry.My first suggestion is to illiminate the levels of quality of arrows so that all levels will create 25 arrows. This mean, like Adept III recipes, the crafter can succeed at the first tier and cancel out the recipe as a whole. This makes for much faster crafting time. Otherwise, the second option would be to make it so that the pristine level of a recipe would create 99 arrows, enough to fill one slot in a quiver. Both ideas would more than likely equal out with time spent and arrows gained in the end, except that the second option would use up less recipe components.The other issue is in general the need to use consumable ammo for primary attacks, an issue that has only afflicted Rangers in the game. I highly doubt SOE is going to create a special rule where we don't consume our ammo or give us the EQ AA ability. But, my idea here is to add a new Ranger-only quiver to the tailor recipe list. This quiver is just like normal quivers in regards to ability bonuses but has the added effect of providing a % chance for the Ranger to 'recover' an arrow with each shot fired. Tier 1 Ranger-only quivers could have a 5% chance to 'recover' a fired arrow, Tier 2 10%, Tier 3 15% and so on. Mastercrafted Ranger-only quivers could increase the amount by +3 to +5% over the Handcrafted of the same tier. Legandary/Fable/Mythic versions of these quivers could be added throughout the game to various boss/named mob drop tables as well. This % chance to recover could eventually cap out at 50% (tier 10, levels 90-99). If the quiver isn't the option, then I believe an additional self buff with a 2 or 3-slot concentration requirement would be the next best offer (though, it would be yet another buff to fight over the M1 version, which I don't think any class needs at this time).Another issue, though mostly a pain than a game breaking problem, is that the arrows summoned by our makeshift spell and the arrows returned by our melee CA are two different types of arrows. At my level, the melee CA returns a feyiron arrow and the makeshift arrows return a something-or-other feyiron arrow (sorry, my memory sucks). The issue is that they don't stack. So, now, to best manage my arrows I have to track two different types. Actually, I lie, I don't have to. In fact, I got bothered with the management of my quiver that I filled it with the makeshift feyiron arrows and just end up deleting the melee CA feyiron arrows when I get more than 99 in my inventroy.I do not think that we need arrows that improve our damage. I believe a side item to this issue is that there is truly a lack of items out there that increase ranged damage as well as ranged crit chances. I believe we should look to get these type of things corrected rather than asking for arrows that deal more damage.

Gnome mercy · 01-19-2007, 01:32 PM

__________________________________________________ _____________________________

As previously posted by Loki_D20:

As a newb ranger who previously posted on this thread as 'not a ranger,' I think there are some possibilities to be had.

The first issue is that it really isn't at all worthwhile for woodworkers to make arrows except to sell at ridiculous prices due to the supply and demand of them by rangers. As a ranger/woodworker who thought it would save him time and money to just craft his own arrows, I was greatly disappointed to see that I spent more time and effort on making the arrows than it was worth to just buy them or take up jewelcraft and makeshift some arrows while I was working on making myself some combat art upgrades and jewelry.

My first suggestion is to illiminate the levels of quality of arrows so that all levels will create 25 arrows. This mean, like Adept III recipes, the crafter can succeed at the first tier and cancel out the recipe as a whole. This makes for much faster crafting time. Otherwise, the second option would be to make it so that the pristine level of a recipe would create 99 arrows, enough to fill one slot in a quiver. Both ideas would more than likely equal out with time spent and arrows gained in the end, except that the second option would use up less recipe components.

The other issue is in general the need to use consumable ammo for primary attacks, an issue that has only afflicted Rangers in the game. I highly doubt SOE is going to create a special rule where we don't consume our ammo or give us the EQ AA ability. But, my idea here is to add a new Ranger-only quiver to the tailor recipe list. This quiver is just like normal quivers in regards to ability bonuses but has the added effect of providing a % chance for the Ranger to 'recover' an arrow with each shot fired. Tier 1 Ranger-only quivers could have a 5% chance to 'recover' a fired arrow, Tier 2 10%, Tier 3 15% and so on. Mastercrafted Ranger-only quivers could increase the amount by +3 to +5% over the Handcrafted of the same tier. Legandary/Fable/Mythic versions of these quivers could be added throughout the game to various boss/named mob drop tables as well. This % chance to recover could eventually cap out at 50% (tier 10, levels 90-99). If the quiver isn't the option, then I believe an additional self buff with a 2 or 3-slot concentration requirement would be the next best offer (though, it would be yet another buff to fight over the M1 version, which I don't think any class needs at this time).

Another issue, though mostly a pain than a game breaking problem, is that the arrows summoned by our makeshift spell and the arrows returned by our melee CA are two different types of arrows. At my level, the melee CA returns a feyiron arrow and the makeshift arrows return a something-or-other feyiron arrow (sorry, my memory sucks). The issue is that they don't stack. So, now, to best manage my arrows I have to track two different types. Actually, I lie, I don't have to. In fact, I got bothered with the management of my quiver that I filled it with the makeshift feyiron arrows and just end up deleting the melee CA feyiron arrows when I get more than 99 in my inventroy.

I do not think that we need arrows that improve our damage. I believe a side item to this issue is that there is truly a lack of items out there that increase ranged damage as well as ranged crit chances. I believe we should look to get these type of things corrected rather than asking for arrows that deal more damage.

__________________________________________________ ___________________________

Sorry the quote button wasnt working sorry if i got your name wrong, but sum it up lol I got bored on the second sentence and decided to stop reading, [Removed for Content].

Anyways basically I'm too stupid to even understnad what this guy wrote even if I read it (I'm a mechanic the only thing i understand is engines lol) But anyways my 2cp on this subject as i have said before please don't bring back endless quiver, just make the arrows 2cp or cheaper than a few pp for 1500 arrows... Just my thoughts, I honestly don't want EQ itll just give the gms a chance to make us better in one way then nerf something else and make our dps even worse. plus I wanna play EQ2 not EQ1

shiala · 01-19-2007, 06:06 PM

on my way out of this game i have to comment on arrows....its the cost, period that was my biggest problem.I played on exchange and actually had to buy PLAT to continue raiding or park my ranger. i spent at least a plat per day on arrows thats just wrong.

btw..... ichor and bazkul arent a good solution to arrows even for a raider cause they are useable by ANY class but priests, so many rangers will lose those bows to some greedy assassin or sk.

xzander 70 ranger (deleted)

Aroumon · 01-20-2007, 10:12 AM

The answer to this seems simple enough to me.

Two Words

Endless Quiver: Here is how it would work

It would be an AA to replace the reduction time it takes to get more arrows..and the ranks would go as such.

rank one: 20% chance not to consume regement

rank two: 40% chance not to consume regement

rank three: 60% chance not to consume regement

rank four: 80% chance not to consume regement

rank five: 100% chance not to consume regement

and this would fit nicely under the survival line.

Aroumon Swiftshot

ranger 70

Second Dawn

Gnome mercy · 01-20-2007, 12:19 PM

FORGET THAT! Like i said I wanna play EQ2 not EQ1

LoreLady · 01-20-2007, 07:13 PM

I am still curious how they are going to implement some sort of new system yet keep everyone happy.. I have a feeling I am going to be able to eat my cake and have it to with this one.. Being a ranger, and woodworker..

Aroumon · 01-20-2007, 11:51 PM

Give me some good reasons not to bring back endless quiver...please...

Aroumon · 01-20-2007, 11:52 PM

Give me some reason why they shouldn't bring back endless quiver please...and how would it not bennifit the ranger class in a whole?

EMERALD ARROWS...from the looks of it and the drop rates of these arrows we are heading towareds Endless Quiver either way you look at it.

Also no T7 crafted arrows...maybe another sign also. It will help and it will give the extra boost we need without killing any market out there.

Aroumon Swiftshot

nirav21 · 01-21-2007, 12:12 AM

Some one suggested which is the very nice idea. That arrows be only used for Auto attack only and CA require no arrows.

Also this is my first ever Everquest character so i dunt know what exactly Endless quiver is can someone pls explain.

Aroumon · 01-21-2007, 03:53 AM

Endless Quiver is an old EQ 1 aa for rangers that you only had to have 1 arrow inside your quiver and you could fire that same arrow forever.

TerriBlades · 01-21-2007, 05:23 AM

Azrael_888 wrote:
I think what your missing here is that not every ranger can get an Ichor or some other T8 ammo summoning bow.

WOODWORKERS SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE T8 AMMO PERIOD. But we can't. When we make arrows we shouldn't have to struggle for 4 progress bars to only make 25 in one batch. It's a waste of time and the cost/profit ratio is too high. Buy em off the vendor. Hell I know rangers lvl 70 t8 raiding rangers that buy TIN Arrows! TIN for Christ sakes because they can't afford to use their summoned arrows in grps running through instances or afford t7 ammo from the vendor.

I know this is a rather late reply, but I just saw this and it really struck a nerve.

Woodworks SHOULD NOT be able to make T8 Ammo. First of all, you dont have access to any of the raws required. Second, you should have to wait til everyone else is in T8. Third, T8 Ammo summoning bows are a perk for what was, High End Game Raiding Rangers. Its not a need for every ranger more then its a want. End Game Raid Rangers could make the claim they need it to boost thier DPS, but they again, they are capable of killing the mobs in question to get that perk. Why the hell should crafters be able to negate the hard work of anyone thats put in the time and effort to get one such reward, to have it trivialized by solo or group rangers? They shouldnt have to.

Until they put in an EPIC woodworking tables, that come with knockbacks, tail swipes, mem wipes and AEs that you'd have to make adjustments for, getting just the right position on the table and where you have to suffer many many deaths, crafters should never be able to make anything on par with end game raid rewards. However, if they do put in the Epic WW Table, please invite me to your group so I can watch, or at the very least, FRAP it for the rest of us. Im sure then you might have a clear understanding of what its like to work your butt off for a great reward.

Okay now that Ive gotten that off my chest. There are many ways that they could improve the arrow usage. I believe most of them have all been mentioned, and all are great ideas. Crafters should have cheaper costs, more arrows per batch (both would be great starts) lowering the cost of arrows all the way around is another great idea. Upping the Arrow output on reclaimed, lowering the recast timer on it. All of them are great ideas, and all of them would have a slight impact on the costs... but would it really help? It wouldnt hurt any, and it would sting alot less, but lets face it, unless arrows are free, we'll still have to pay for them. It just wont sting as much.

And if they ever allowed for WWs to create specialty arrows, with a + to certain types of damage, who wouldnt be buying those instead? And then the cycle will start all over again. Because you know the newer arrows do more damage, you'd be tempted to buy those instead of the generic one.

Gnome mercy · 01-21-2007, 08:28 AM

Aroumon wrote:

Give me some good reasons not to bring back endless quiver...please...

as my last post said its pretty self explanatory, I WANT TO PLAY EQ2 NOT EQ1, can you read the text now? maybe i should make it bigger, 1 second....

I WANT TO PLAY EQ2 NOT EQ1, there, if you can't read that then there is no hope for you

Stormhawk · 01-21-2007, 01:28 PM

If you feel the need to post in a larger font with all caps, you should just not post as it only helps to infuriate people. Especially when you do so without offering anything to the conversation as you just did.

Nulad · 01-21-2007, 02:16 PM

Endless quiver doesn't make EQ2 suddenly turn into EQ1. Just as SoW doesn't, or any number of the heritage quest items, or the cities fo Qeynos, Freeport or Kelethin. You Sir have a non-reason.

Arkturis · 01-22-2007, 12:59 AM

Nuladen wrote:
Endless quiver doesn't make EQ2 suddenly turn into EQ1. Just as SoW doesn't, or any number of the heritage quest items, or the cities fo Qeynos, Freeport or Kelethin. You Sir have a non-reason.

Lets not forget nagafen, vox, crush, dvinn, and all the old zones in one way or another.

01-12-2007, 11:57 PM	#151
Xeph General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 24	Due to lack of developer support for this issue I will be playing Vanguard regardless of the situation over there. How's that for ultimate frustration. I'm sorry it had to come to this but I just don't appreciate the lack of support for your "valued" customers. I was looking at graphs for MMO active subscriptions recently and I was shocked at how the population of this game has declined since it's peak a year ago. Couple this with seeing other games like WoW continuing to gain ground... it should be very obvious to developers what the problem is. Very good attempt guys, I really have enjoyed most of my time here due to the people I've met (not the support we received as Rangers obviously). If I sound bitter well... that's to be expected with the cone of silence on valid issues across the board. Please be advised that paying customers expect communication from support on troublesome issues. Even if it is "hey we can't fix that, sorry" at least we know. To you execs making the (poor) decision to not communicate... just look at your shrinking population. To the flamers and execs in denial... http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1.html In closing let me say... Nah Nah Nah Nah! Nah Nah Nah Nah! Hey Hey Hey! Vanguard! Parade wave

01-13-2007, 01:44 AM	#152
BSbon General Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 605	this one is easier to read http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html __________________ Click Here for Amazing Superteam Comics updated Tuesday and Thursday " width="360" height="81">

01-13-2007, 07:53 AM	#155
BSbon General Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 605	Xephre wrote: You are correct Bongo. I was trying to show the explosive growth of that other MMO we all love to hate without mentioning the vast gap directly hehe. btw I'll miss seeing you around here man. You've made some very good points without resorting to flame wars and the like. Hope you keep up the comics too! I was frustrated when writing my post obviously. I apologize if I've offended any devs. I understand that your hands are tied on a lot of this stuff and this is your job; whereas this is our beloved recreation. Take care fellow Rangers and best of luck in the future. i try not to attack people. when you do you just proved that thier argument is valid and you have nothing but insults left. and vanguard is coming out soon. i'll be trying it out after its out for a few months. if i like it more than eq2 i'll be switching but i'll always make comics __________________ Click Here for Amazing Superteam Comics updated Tuesday and Thursday " width="360" height="81">

01-13-2007, 10:47 AM	#156
Off General Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a wormhole between Earth and Norrath Posts: 298	I've sent in /feedback before requesting that an AA change be implemented for only one thing that really sticks out in my mind. Instead of the Reclaim AA, include Endless Quiver in this game. Those of you who played EQ1 will know what that is. The cost of arrows is high enough as it is for a soloer/non-raider; get a Ranger who raids and that cost more than doubles. The recast timers on the summon arrow skills and its upgrades are rediculously long at 10 minutes, the amount of arrows summoned per cast is puny, and good for only a few fights if you have only the adept I version. Will Endless Quiver be implemented? I really hope so. yet, only SOE can answer that one. My theory is that if you don't ask, you'll never know. I love playing the Ranger though, and though arrows is of big concern, each class out there has it's own downfalls. __________________

01-13-2007, 12:01 PM	#157
Gnome mercy Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 303	Offem wrote: I've sent in /feedback before requesting that an AA change be implemented for only one thing that really sticks out in my mind. Instead of the Reclaim AA, include Endless Quiver in this game. Those of you who played EQ1 will know what that is. The cost of arrows is high enough as it is for a soloer/non-raider; get a Ranger who raids and that cost more than doubles. The recast timers on the summon arrow skills and its upgrades are rediculously long at 10 minutes, the amount of arrows summoned per cast is puny, and good for only a few fights if you have only the adept I version. Will Endless Quiver be implemented? I really hope so. yet, only SOE can answer that one. My theory is that if you don't ask, you'll never know. I love playing the Ranger though, and though arrows is of big concern, each class out there has it's own downfalls. they wont do it I've said this many times before, endless quiver they felt was a huge mistake in eq1 it overpowered rangers there it will overpower us here back in eq1 they all had to make arrows for a long time until EQ came out and months after it was out it was already being overused and very overpowered to rangers, didnt help that they also made AM3 which nearly tripled the damage output they were doing before AM3 but it all happened like that cause rangers just werent enough dps without it, but as i have said before I highly doubt they will put in EQ in eq2. They made that mistake once they probably too afraid to make it again, but who knows we might get lucky and they will do it and like the last expansion that came out make arrows that are special and will not work with EQ and use up ammo anyways, that would be interesting

01-13-2007, 01:59 AM	#153
Xeph General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 24	You are correct Bongo. I was trying to show the explosive growth of that other MMO we all love to hate without mentioning the vast gap directly hehe. btw I'll miss seeing you around here man. You've made some very good points without resorting to flame wars and the like. Hope you keep up the comics too! I was frustrated when writing my post obviously. I apologize if I've offended any devs. I understand that your hands are tied on a lot of this stuff and this is your job; whereas this is our beloved recreation. Take care fellow Rangers and best of luck in the future.

01-13-2007, 02:27 AM	#154
Monstage Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 28	Beaten by toontown online. Thats just...sad. After seeing all the problems highlighted on these forums and the constant destabilising changes/nerfs (especially the nerfs) I am beginnning to think that this game should have had another year of balancing and tweaking before even going to beta. There have been far, far to many changes. Fair enough, it's nice to face new challenges but they should be from the quests and raid mobs we are facing, not from having to relearn the combat system every 2 months and having to struggle over important issues with a non-responsive development team. I mean I only have to say one word....arrows....to prove my point there. SOE, you should realise that there are people playing their characters to the limit and finding all sorts of flaws and problems which genuinely need looking into. People have far,far more time playing their respective classes than you do because you are busy writing and developing the game. Of course we dont expect perfection, thats impossible. I am not saying give everybody what they want all the time, of course not. Just let us know that issues are being dealt with and actually show that you are listening. After all we ARE paying customers. If you were to go out, buy a TV, got it home and it didnt work and then took it back to the shop and told the guy in the store the problem and he just stares at you blankly, not even showing any interest in what you are saying then you would have to assume that they don't give a toss and you definately would not go back there again would you? Well thats how many rangers are feeling right now and as a result people are leaving the game, not just switching toons but actually closing accounts and going elsewhere and as you can see from that chart, there are plenty of other places to go (even discounting the WoWcancer that is taking over the world). It's such a shame because you have made a really nice world with interesting lore, pretty graphics, good music and a dynamic combat system. There is the potential here to be great, not just good. Unfortunately you have really, really got to learn to communicate with your customers. Every now and then a red name on the forums does help belive it or not, even if you can't say much because of contractual reasons, but you must, MUST follow up the words with actions at some point. Just saying "we are looking ito it" and leaving it at that is just not enough. Personally I wont be leaving the game. This isn't a dear John letter. I like to many aspects of it to give it up but I just find it really disappointing to see how low the player numbers are and hope that the whole game wont just die a long, slow, protracted death. Oh, and by the way, when you make changes that can cause multiple deaths to raids/groups at least have the common decency to let people know about the changes you have made. I am talking about surveillance here and you know it. That was just plain unfair to so many people.

01-13-2007, 02:07 PM	#158
Nulad General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 638	Endless quiver wasn't the mistake, the overpowered rare arrows were... (don't shoot me, it's only my opinion... lol) __________________

01-13-2007, 10:03 PM	#159
kartikeya Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 387	Again, what people are ignoring about Endless Quiver is that the rangers in EQ1 were NOT purely or mostly archery based. Prior to the release of Luclin we did our damage in melee, and ranged was very, very weak, used only for pulling or for (very long) kite sessions. Giving Endless Quiver to rangers in EQ1 along with the archery AA's and the special arrows would be like giving assassins all of our ranged CA's, Endless Quiver, and super arrows. Giving Endless Quiver to rangers now would be like, um...uh...every other class in the game. We don't have special arrows. Even the T8 ammo only brings us up to match everyone else, and the T8 bows practically are an Endless Quiver already. If they wanted to add special arrows, I'm sure there's the capability to make Endless Quiver not work on them, but right now, I'd rather they focus on fixing the problems with the arrows we have now, rather than us sit and say 'but if they do this, then they won't be able to do suchandsuch thing that currently doesn't exist and may never exist at all'. Running out of arrows isn't a 'balance' feature. I daresay most rangers that have this problem make sure they are stocked up before a raid, it just costs an arm and a leg simply to do damage that any other class can do for free (And don't talk about poisons, we have to buy poisons too. Take away poisons from a scout and they'll do less damage, take away arrows from a ranger and it's like you've given them Nerf(c) daggers to try and stab with.) __________________

01-14-2007, 10:48 AM	#160
Gnome mercy Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 303	Nuladen wrote: Endless quiver wasn't the mistake, the overpowered rare arrows were... (don't shoot me, it's only my opinion... lol) this could be true. I cna agree there that the what 11dmg arrows + 2 or 3 of the other damage arrows did make the difference, bigtime. Who knows maybe we will get lucky enough to hear from a dev and tell us what they think about all this and what their plans our for our future

01-14-2007, 11:02 AM	#161
Azrael_888 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 77	I think what your missing here is that not every ranger can get an Ichor or some other T8 ammo summoning bow. WOODWORKERS SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE T8 AMMO PERIOD. But we can't. When we make arrows we shouldn't have to struggle for 4 progress bars to only make 25 in one batch. It's a waste of time and the cost/profit ratio is too high. Buy em off the vendor. Hell I know rangers lvl 70 t8 raiding rangers that buy TIN Arrows! TIN for Christ sakes because they can't afford to use their summoned arrows in grps running through instances or afford t7 ammo from the vendor. Endless quivers aren't the answer cause they'll be nerfed with t5 ammo or something of the like. Increasing the the arrow summoning spells to something like 100 for M1 and the like would be a great start and dropping the recast to 8 min or so would be even better (and I'm talking WITHOUT AA's God that AA thing is so much BULL[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn])All in all if woodworkers could make 75 arrows per 4 progress bar bushels and give them some T8 arrow making spells w/o having to use rares it would make it more cost effective to "waste" the time to make a couple thousand arrows in as little as half an hour as compared to making only 1500 or so in an hour now (based on making 25 arrows every 2 min averaged)And lower the cost of sandpaper while your at it! I mean christ did God himself make it imbued with special properties? or maybe make a special arrow only sandpaper for at least t7 ammo since they wont give wooworkes a way to make t8 ammo.

01-14-2007, 11:39 AM	#162
Gnome mercy Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 303	Azrael_888 wrote: I think what your missing here is that not every ranger can get an Ichor or some other T8 ammo summoning bow. WOODWORKERS SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE T8 AMMO PERIOD. But we can't. When we make arrows we shouldn't have to struggle for 4 progress bars to only make 25 in one batch. It's a waste of time and the cost/profit ratio is too high. Buy em off the vendor. Hell I know rangers lvl 70 t8 raiding rangers that buy TIN Arrows! TIN for Christ sakes because they can't afford to use their summoned arrows in grps running through instances or afford t7 ammo from the vendor. Endless quivers aren't the answer cause they'll be nerfed with t5 ammo or something of the like. Increasing the the arrow summoning spells to something like 100 for M1 and the like would be a great start and dropping the recast to 8 min or so would be even better (and I'm talking WITHOUT AA's God that AA thing is so much BULL[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]) All in all if woodworkers could make 75 arrows per 4 progress bar bushels and give them some T8 arrow making spells w/o having to use rares it would make it more cost effective to "waste" the time to make a couple thousand arrows in as little as half an hour as compared to making only 1500 or so in an hour now (based on making 25 arrows every 2 min averaged) And lower the cost of sandpaper while your at it! I mean christ did God himself make it imbued with special properties? or maybe make a special arrow only sandpaper for at least t7 ammo since they wont give wooworkes a way to make t8 ammo. God thought it would make great toilet paper, just take and staple some to your floor and then watch is in less than 2 weeks your dog will never rub his [Removed for Content] on your carpet again, [Removed for Content] Although tin!? Your dps would drop so much they wouldn't even worth the 1cp spent per arrow if anything id go a higher tier or just suck it up and use your summoned arrows. I know right now its really hard times but theres gotta be somewhere to get some cheap [Removed for Content] arrows, also i think that woodworkers should get the benefeit or making more than 25 arrows per make in EQ1 they made a whole stack (which in EQ1 was only 20 arrows) but in EQ1 also arrows werent used half as much as EQ2, so maybe a whole lot more let woodworkers make 99 arrows per comebine that would actually give them some profit and us some decent arrows to buy cheaper than usual

01-15-2007, 02:54 AM	#163
Gnome mercy Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 303	Sorry for the double post but I halfto add this: I think we are focusing too much on the AP's. If you ask me we should not halfto focus on them cause as far as it goes the devs strictly said when they came out that AP's were made to help us become different from the rest, maybe some kind of CA buff or something or just take the arrow semantics out of our ranged CAs and just not need us to use arrows while using our ranged CAs, I don't mind using them in autoattack for the very simple reason, the arrows actually help our ranged dps, but no matter what arrow you use our CAs will always deal the same exact damage. So why pay for it if our arrows dont change our ranged CA damage? Now thats what bugs me

01-18-2007, 10:28 PM	#164
nirav21 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 99	I am gona try to bump this thread to top of the page. I belive that this is Ranger's number 1 problem. I would also like to sum up some points others suggested. making arrow crafting to 99 per 1 crafting period. lowering the price of crafted arrows. more arrows per Summoning CA. __________________ Nisox 70 Ranger on Nagafen

01-18-2007, 10:40 PM	#165
Monstage Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 28	I agree. We should keep reminding everybody that the problem is still here. Personally I have been reporting the arrow problem as a bug and will keep doing so until something is done. If there are 50-100 bug reports everyday from fed-up rangers then we shouldnt be ignored.

01-19-2007, 12:07 AM	#166
Loki_d20 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: behind you Posts: 111	As a newb ranger who previously posted on this thread as 'not a ranger,' I think there are some possibilities to be had.The first issue is that it really isn't at all worthwhile for woodworkers to make arrows except to sell at ridiculous prices due to the supply and demand of them by rangers. As a ranger/woodworker who thought it would save him time and money to just craft his own arrows, I was greatly disappointed to see that I spent more time and effort on making the arrows than it was worth to just buy them or take up jewelcraft and makeshift some arrows while I was working on making myself some combat art upgrades and jewelry.My first suggestion is to illiminate the levels of quality of arrows so that all levels will create 25 arrows. This mean, like Adept III recipes, the crafter can succeed at the first tier and cancel out the recipe as a whole. This makes for much faster crafting time. Otherwise, the second option would be to make it so that the pristine level of a recipe would create 99 arrows, enough to fill one slot in a quiver. Both ideas would more than likely equal out with time spent and arrows gained in the end, except that the second option would use up less recipe components.The other issue is in general the need to use consumable ammo for primary attacks, an issue that has only afflicted Rangers in the game. I highly doubt SOE is going to create a special rule where we don't consume our ammo or give us the EQ AA ability. But, my idea here is to add a new Ranger-only quiver to the tailor recipe list. This quiver is just like normal quivers in regards to ability bonuses but has the added effect of providing a % chance for the Ranger to 'recover' an arrow with each shot fired. Tier 1 Ranger-only quivers could have a 5% chance to 'recover' a fired arrow, Tier 2 10%, Tier 3 15% and so on. Mastercrafted Ranger-only quivers could increase the amount by +3 to +5% over the Handcrafted of the same tier. Legandary/Fable/Mythic versions of these quivers could be added throughout the game to various boss/named mob drop tables as well. This % chance to recover could eventually cap out at 50% (tier 10, levels 90-99). If the quiver isn't the option, then I believe an additional self buff with a 2 or 3-slot concentration requirement would be the next best offer (though, it would be yet another buff to fight over the M1 version, which I don't think any class needs at this time).Another issue, though mostly a pain than a game breaking problem, is that the arrows summoned by our makeshift spell and the arrows returned by our melee CA are two different types of arrows. At my level, the melee CA returns a feyiron arrow and the makeshift arrows return a something-or-other feyiron arrow (sorry, my memory sucks). The issue is that they don't stack. So, now, to best manage my arrows I have to track two different types. Actually, I lie, I don't have to. In fact, I got bothered with the management of my quiver that I filled it with the makeshift feyiron arrows and just end up deleting the melee CA feyiron arrows when I get more than 99 in my inventroy.I do not think that we need arrows that improve our damage. I believe a side item to this issue is that there is truly a lack of items out there that increase ranged damage as well as ranged crit chances. I believe we should look to get these type of things corrected rather than asking for arrows that deal more damage.

01-19-2007, 01:32 PM	#167
Gnome mercy Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 303	__________________________________________________ _____________________________ As previously posted by Loki_D20: As a newb ranger who previously posted on this thread as 'not a ranger,' I think there are some possibilities to be had. The first issue is that it really isn't at all worthwhile for woodworkers to make arrows except to sell at ridiculous prices due to the supply and demand of them by rangers. As a ranger/woodworker who thought it would save him time and money to just craft his own arrows, I was greatly disappointed to see that I spent more time and effort on making the arrows than it was worth to just buy them or take up jewelcraft and makeshift some arrows while I was working on making myself some combat art upgrades and jewelry. My first suggestion is to illiminate the levels of quality of arrows so that all levels will create 25 arrows. This mean, like Adept III recipes, the crafter can succeed at the first tier and cancel out the recipe as a whole. This makes for much faster crafting time. Otherwise, the second option would be to make it so that the pristine level of a recipe would create 99 arrows, enough to fill one slot in a quiver. Both ideas would more than likely equal out with time spent and arrows gained in the end, except that the second option would use up less recipe components. The other issue is in general the need to use consumable ammo for primary attacks, an issue that has only afflicted Rangers in the game. I highly doubt SOE is going to create a special rule where we don't consume our ammo or give us the EQ AA ability. But, my idea here is to add a new Ranger-only quiver to the tailor recipe list. This quiver is just like normal quivers in regards to ability bonuses but has the added effect of providing a % chance for the Ranger to 'recover' an arrow with each shot fired. Tier 1 Ranger-only quivers could have a 5% chance to 'recover' a fired arrow, Tier 2 10%, Tier 3 15% and so on. Mastercrafted Ranger-only quivers could increase the amount by +3 to +5% over the Handcrafted of the same tier. Legandary/Fable/Mythic versions of these quivers could be added throughout the game to various boss/named mob drop tables as well. This % chance to recover could eventually cap out at 50% (tier 10, levels 90-99). If the quiver isn't the option, then I believe an additional self buff with a 2 or 3-slot concentration requirement would be the next best offer (though, it would be yet another buff to fight over the M1 version, which I don't think any class needs at this time). Another issue, though mostly a pain than a game breaking problem, is that the arrows summoned by our makeshift spell and the arrows returned by our melee CA are two different types of arrows. At my level, the melee CA returns a feyiron arrow and the makeshift arrows return a something-or-other feyiron arrow (sorry, my memory sucks). The issue is that they don't stack. So, now, to best manage my arrows I have to track two different types. Actually, I lie, I don't have to. In fact, I got bothered with the management of my quiver that I filled it with the makeshift feyiron arrows and just end up deleting the melee CA feyiron arrows when I get more than 99 in my inventroy. I do not think that we need arrows that improve our damage. I believe a side item to this issue is that there is truly a lack of items out there that increase ranged damage as well as ranged crit chances. I believe we should look to get these type of things corrected rather than asking for arrows that deal more damage. __________________________________________________ ___________________________ Sorry the quote button wasnt working sorry if i got your name wrong, but sum it up lol I got bored on the second sentence and decided to stop reading, [Removed for Content]. Anyways basically I'm too stupid to even understnad what this guy wrote even if I read it (I'm a mechanic the only thing i understand is engines lol) But anyways my 2cp on this subject as i have said before please don't bring back endless quiver, just make the arrows 2cp or cheaper than a few pp for 1500 arrows... Just my thoughts, I honestly don't want EQ itll just give the gms a chance to make us better in one way then nerf something else and make our dps even worse. plus I wanna play EQ2 not EQ1

01-19-2007, 06:06 PM	#168
shiala Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 11	on my way out of this game i have to comment on arrows....its the cost, period that was my biggest problem.I played on exchange and actually had to buy PLAT to continue raiding or park my ranger. i spent at least a plat per day on arrows thats just wrong. btw..... ichor and bazkul arent a good solution to arrows even for a raider cause they are useable by ANY class but priests, so many rangers will lose those bows to some greedy assassin or sk. xzander 70 ranger (deleted)

01-20-2007, 10:12 AM	#169
Aroumon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 43	The answer to this seems simple enough to me. Two Words Endless Quiver: Here is how it would work It would be an AA to replace the reduction time it takes to get more arrows..and the ranks would go as such. rank one: 20% chance not to consume regement rank two: 40% chance not to consume regement rank three: 60% chance not to consume regement rank four: 80% chance not to consume regement rank five: 100% chance not to consume regement and this would fit nicely under the survival line. Aroumon Swiftshot ranger 70 Second Dawn

01-20-2007, 12:19 PM	#170
Gnome mercy Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 303	FORGET THAT! Like i said I wanna play EQ2 not EQ1

01-20-2007, 07:13 PM	#171
LoreLady Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,039	I am still curious how they are going to implement some sort of new system yet keep everyone happy.. I have a feeling I am going to be able to eat my cake and have it to with this one.. Being a ranger, and woodworker.. __________________ RIP Oakleaf 1949-2006

01-20-2007, 11:51 PM	#172
Aroumon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 43	Give me some good reasons not to bring back endless quiver...please...

01-20-2007, 11:52 PM	#173
Aroumon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 43	Give me some reason why they shouldn't bring back endless quiver please...and how would it not bennifit the ranger class in a whole? EMERALD ARROWS...from the looks of it and the drop rates of these arrows we are heading towareds Endless Quiver either way you look at it. Also no T7 crafted arrows...maybe another sign also. It will help and it will give the extra boost we need without killing any market out there. Aroumon Swiftshot

01-21-2007, 12:12 AM	#174
nirav21 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 99	Some one suggested which is the very nice idea. That arrows be only used for Auto attack only and CA require no arrows. Also this is my first ever Everquest character so i dunt know what exactly Endless quiver is can someone pls explain. __________________ Nisox 70 Ranger on Nagafen

01-21-2007, 03:53 AM	#175
Aroumon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 43	Endless Quiver is an old EQ 1 aa for rangers that you only had to have 1 arrow inside your quiver and you could fire that same arrow forever.

01-21-2007, 05:23 AM	#176
TerriBlades Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 588	Azrael_888 wrote: I think what your missing here is that not every ranger can get an Ichor or some other T8 ammo summoning bow. WOODWORKERS SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE T8 AMMO PERIOD. But we can't. When we make arrows we shouldn't have to struggle for 4 progress bars to only make 25 in one batch. It's a waste of time and the cost/profit ratio is too high. Buy em off the vendor. Hell I know rangers lvl 70 t8 raiding rangers that buy TIN Arrows! TIN for Christ sakes because they can't afford to use their summoned arrows in grps running through instances or afford t7 ammo from the vendor. I know this is a rather late reply, but I just saw this and it really struck a nerve. Woodworks SHOULD NOT be able to make T8 Ammo. First of all, you dont have access to any of the raws required. Second, you should have to wait til everyone else is in T8. Third, T8 Ammo summoning bows are a perk for what was, High End Game Raiding Rangers. Its not a need for every ranger more then its a want. End Game Raid Rangers could make the claim they need it to boost thier DPS, but they again, they are capable of killing the mobs in question to get that perk. Why the hell should crafters be able to negate the hard work of anyone thats put in the time and effort to get one such reward, to have it trivialized by solo or group rangers? They shouldnt have to. Until they put in an EPIC woodworking tables, that come with knockbacks, tail swipes, mem wipes and AEs that you'd have to make adjustments for, getting just the right position on the table and where you have to suffer many many deaths, crafters should never be able to make anything on par with end game raid rewards. However, if they do put in the Epic WW Table, please invite me to your group so I can watch, or at the very least, FRAP it for the rest of us. Im sure then you might have a clear understanding of what its like to work your butt off for a great reward. Okay now that Ive gotten that off my chest. There are many ways that they could improve the arrow usage. I believe most of them have all been mentioned, and all are great ideas. Crafters should have cheaper costs, more arrows per batch (both would be great starts) lowering the cost of arrows all the way around is another great idea. Upping the Arrow output on reclaimed, lowering the recast timer on it. All of them are great ideas, and all of them would have a slight impact on the costs... but would it really help? It wouldnt hurt any, and it would sting alot less, but lets face it, unless arrows are free, we'll still have to pay for them. It just wont sting as much. And if they ever allowed for WWs to create specialty arrows, with a + to certain types of damage, who wouldnt be buying those instead? And then the cycle will start all over again. Because you know the newer arrows do more damage, you'd be tempted to buy those instead of the generic one. __________________

01-21-2007, 08:28 AM	#177
Gnome mercy Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 303	Aroumon wrote: Give me some good reasons not to bring back endless quiver...please... as my last post said its pretty self explanatory, I WANT TO PLAY EQ2 NOT EQ1, can you read the text now? maybe i should make it bigger, 1 second.... I WANT TO PLAY EQ2 NOT EQ1, there, if you can't read that then there is no hope for you

01-21-2007, 01:28 PM	#178
Stormhawk Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 121	If you feel the need to post in a larger font with all caps, you should just not post as it only helps to infuriate people. Especially when you do so without offering anything to the conversation as you just did.

01-21-2007, 02:16 PM	#179
Nulad General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 638	Endless quiver doesn't make EQ2 suddenly turn into EQ1. Just as SoW doesn't, or any number of the heritage quest items, or the cities fo Qeynos, Freeport or Kelethin. You Sir have a non-reason. __________________

01-22-2007, 12:59 AM	#180
Arkturis Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 57	Nuladen wrote: Endless quiver doesn't make EQ2 suddenly turn into EQ1. Just as SoW doesn't, or any number of the heritage quest items, or the cities fo Qeynos, Freeport or Kelethin. You Sir have a non-reason. Lets not forget nagafen, vox, crush, dvinn, and all the old zones in one way or another.