The problem with arrows

[ADW123]

I would like to talk some about the problems that exist with arrows in this game. I believe that as a ranger is should be entirely possible to play our class solely with the bow. The base damage of the bow should be able to keep up w/ the base damage of equivalent close combat weapons w/o any extra costs. Since the recent nerfs I've found myself spending more and more gold on high quality arrows just to keep my damage up to a reasonable level. I hate spending dozens of gold every night just to sustain the base damage of my weapon.

 

Now, it certainly is possible to play solely from range with your bow but at the moment it is extremely expensive. Currently when calculating the damage of a bow, the base damage of the bow, and the arrow quality are taken into account. In order for a bow to do its full potential damage you must use the same quality arrow as the tier you are in. Using anything lesser than this and your bows damage will be decrease proportially to the quality of the arrow. You could have the best bow in the game but if you are using a tin arrow that bow is only doing about 5% of its potential damage. This is why a bow that does 80-400 damage will hit for about 25 when using a tin arrow. This is also why currently many rangers are meleeing then rushing out to shoot a few bow ca's and back into melee again. It is simply too expensive to play using the highest quality arrows.

 

Before the recent nerf this wasn't a big deal, 60% of our damage came from poisons and because the arrow quality didn't matter when using our ca's everyone just bought tin and things were fine. Spending more on the higher quality arrows only increased dps by a small unnoticable amount when compared to the excessive cost to sustain this increase. Now that poisons rarely proc a larger percent of the rangers total dps is coming from the bow. Just to survive while soloing and perform reasonably in groups and raids the ranger must use higher quality arrows. Very few can afford to do this.

 

It simply does not make sense that one class should be forced to pay a re-occuring cost to use their weapon. Blades do not need to be periodically sharpened. Staves and bo's do not need to be rewrapped and repaired, from normal use. It should not work this way when using a bow. All rangers are at a disadvantage over other classes that do not rely on a bow.

 

I think a good way to fix this problem would simply be to remove all qualities of arrows from the vendors. Replace them with 3 standard arrow types. Slash arrow, Pierce arrow, Crush arrow. Make them cheap, a few cp each and readily available through the game, so it is not a burden on rangers to keep themselves stocked. Next allow woodworkers to craft enhanced arrows for each tier. Make them cheap enough to sell for reasonable prices and in large enough qualities so that crafting them is not absolute hell as it is currently. A stack of common Tier 7 arrows for 50 sp cost would be reasonable in my opinion. Maybe 5gp a stack for rare arrows.

 

Some examples of some enhancements that could be added to the common version could be:

-Percent increase to damage. 1% for Tier 1 arrows, 7% for Tier 7 arrows.

-Percent increase to chance to hit. 1% for Tier 1 arrows, 7% for Tier 7 arrows.

-Change the damage type to fire/cold/poison/disease/divine/mental. This would allow rangers to specialize for certain encounters that are weaker towards certain resists. Making a raid mob completely immune to physical damage wouldn't be such a ridiculus thing to implement with something like this.

 

Some examples of some enhancements that could be added to the rare version in addition to one of the above could be:

-Percent chance to land a critical hit.

-Small chance to proc a small debuff.

-Small chance to proc a small dot/nuke

 

I certainly don't expect all of these to be implemented but something needs to be done. Especially after the recent nerfs, just for me to keep my dps decent I'm forced to spend so much gold on arrows. It needs to end. Let me know how you feel about this. Any other ideas? Anyone think that arrows should stay as is etc? Give me some feedback.

 

Sacrifice

63 Ranger

Unrest

 

[Mirdo]

Like it or loathe it, they will never give us a cheap way of getting appropriate tier arrows in the quantities we need. The reason - tradeskillers. It's also the reason we will always be reliant on poison for the damage procs to get us to the correct tier of damage.

 

Although in the post below Beghn calls damage from appropriate arrows and posion 'bonus' damage for special occassions, the reality is that we need to use them all the time to keep up with our T1 counterparts. Maybe the mechanics guys don't speak and it's not realised that the poison isn't a 'nice to have' but rather an absolute necessity to do our job.

 

It does make me wonder how much cash the rep. that threatened to play a Ranger for a bit tweaked himself to test these issues. I wonder if he's gone to the market place on a number of servers and tried to buy arrows an poisons at all tiers. I wonder if he plans on trying out a fast moving group for 4 or 5 hours and seeing how much cash he has to dump that night to stay competitive. 

 

Karver made a post about this recently (begn is the tradeskill mechanics guy):

 

Beghn wrote:Ammo currently player made ammo isn't highly used which needs to change these need to be the standard that adventurers want to buy.  They can get by with store bought ammo but should rather want player crafted ammo. and then in response to a ranger that stated that on a grind night he uses 3500-4000 arrows which for T6 vendor bought arrows would be 1.36 plat( and of course woodworkers should be getting paid more than the NPC vendors.)Now unlike the ranger that responded to that thread I have never used 4000 arrows in a night but then I don't care to grind for hours on end.  I can say that I have emptied my quiver including the arrows I summoned while we were fighting and that comes out to about 2000 arrows. While we can't control the prices of arrows that players make we can adjust the functionality of them.  Don't worry we won't be unbalancing the game by making player made ammo so unbalanced your considered "nerfed" unless your using rare t7 arrows.  Rare ammo/potions/poisons aren't mentto be used every time you go out adventuring they are supposed to be a perk that you might use on a raid boss or a hard encounter.  We deffinatlywill be considering costs when making these items so we don't end up "nerfing" rangers.Ben

 

 

Well he keeps thinking we will call this a nerf... It is not a nerf but an compounding of bad thinking ... yet again i will state this ... we are the worst hit class on the fact that we have to BUY our dps... what little we have left .. and now he is talking about making us more dependant on a limited resource.. and can you say price war... HAVE YOU NOT LEARNED ANYTHING FROM GAS PRICES IN RL ECONOMICS... sign ..

 

Please ... Please ... listen to us ..  stop tying our best DPS options to bought consumable resoruces... going down this path and exasperating the situation is not helpfull... at least the NPC arrows where a controlled cost... and do not give me well you do not have to use them if you do not want to deal...

 

who the hell wants to group with a ranger that says well i could be better... but i am to cheap to buy the proper items to function at my peak rate... hell why do you think everyone and there mother runs phasers ..to check who doing what in group and pulling there weight...

 

Mirdo.

[subari]

/thumbsup ADW123

Superb statement.

Greetings

suba

Message Edited by subaridu on 03-02-200602:48 PM

[Teksun]

Actually, there is a way around the Tradeskill problem, AND solve our DPS as well. Let crafters make PROCing arrows. they could have different procs and do more damage per tier (give MoBs a save but it will ALWAYS proc). Very few pwople would use these outside of special encounters because it would be cost prohibitive...

[Shaulin Dolamite]

Teksun, but then we need a damage increase to be T1 without those items, if poisons and rare arrows are perks then without them we should be T1, and not sure about you all but as it is now with adestes,shissar I have to fight to get near t1. Without them im well behind the T1 curve.

[Bithnar]

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ADW123 wrote:

 

A stack of common Tier 7 arrows for 50 sp cost would be reasonable in my opinion. Maybe 5gp a stack for rare arrows.

 

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I am also a woodcrafter with my Ranger and I can tell you no woodcrafter would sell a stack of T7 arrows for 50sp.  One reason is because of Space.  In a normal Inn room you can have two boxes in you bank with, not sure of the T7 boxes, but a total of around 70 vault spaces.  Another reason is because of the fuel cost to make the arrow - One final combine on the arrows only makes 25 arrows.  Another reason is money vs. time

On the crafting each final combine on the totems produces 3 totems, wereas the final combine on arrows only makes 25.  So to fill those 70 vault spaces I need about 23 final combines for totems and 277 final combines for the arrows.  And lets not get into the fuel costs at T7 (i wont get into it cause I havent looked at it yet :smileyvery-happy

At lvl 43 woodworker I can make 70 totems of the chamelon (invis totem) and sell them for 1g each for a total of 70g or I can spend as 12 times as much time making 70 stacks of arrows and sell them for 50sp each 50sp x 70 = 35g not hard to do the math.

Unless they make a BIG change in how arrows are crafted it isn't gonna happen.  At least not for 50sp a stack.

Edit:

I just checked.  Both use the same number of fuels (just different ones) from begining to final combine so the fuel costs are the same.  Eleven total fuels are used (I didn't count water cause its cheap).  I dont know the fuel costs per tier. 

Message Edited by Bithnar on 03-02-200607:04 AM

[Katzil]

I'd like to add to what Bithnar has posted above. 

 

I've got a 63 ranger .. and all nine tradeskillers ranging now between 60 and 63.  (Woodworker is 62)

 

That means, up to T6, I've pretty much crafted every item in the game (other than the revamped lowest 2 tiers). 

 

Without ANY hesitation, I can tell you that crafting arrows is the single worst combine in the game .. and by a significant margin. 

 

Making rare arrows is fairly decent experience for a woodworker going through that particular xp band .. to be sure .. but making 15 arrows takes me longer to do than making a pristine imbued BP on my armorer (and that ain't trivial). 

 

The fuel costs are out of whack (Bithnar gave the numbers).  Numerous subcombines.  The need for rare components (cobalt ingots are a by-product of making cobalt gear).  The absolute painful length of time it takes to complete each combine (I'd guess it's 50% more time to make an arrow combine than a 'normal' combine .. but that's just an approximation based on making lots) .. compounded by LOTS MORE critical failures (events that set you back while making an item) than almost any other recipe I can think of (yes provisioners, it's worse than coffee at the first level you can make it! :smileyhappy: )

 

With an armorer and a weaponsmith, having cobalt ingots is not a problem for me.  I can even make those arrows cheaper than most, because I don't have to rely on secondary skills to use double fuels. 

 

Yet I can tell you .. I have maybe a couple stacks in my quiver on any given day .. tops.  I bring them out for Christmas and the odd boss mob.  They're simply not worth the time to make .. even for me. 

 

Now, the Great Ranger Nerf of LU20 has me making more now .. just to keep up DPS.  Odds are, I'll try to force myself into the pain of making more in the future.  My point is, please don't harass the poor woodworkers.  It's one miserable combine right now. 

 

 

[Bayler_x]

My suggestion is to get rid of arrows as a consumable good.  Bow users keep a "bundle of arrows" in their ammo slot that dictates damage type and maybe gives other characteristics too.  They should be attunable, so that adventurers need to keep buying new ones every tier.  They can come in varying degrees of quality, just like any other weapon.There is no way that SOE can balance any kind of consumable, unless all classes have an approximately equal need of them.  Potions and totems and food are balanced enough, in that they provide benefits that everyone can use.  Poisons aren't balanced, but they're not a big deal right now.  But arrows are completely out of whack; they have an entirely different impact on rangers than other classes, just like procs used to.  And like procs, SOE will have to choose whether to balance arrows for rangers, balance them for non-rangers, or make a change to how they're handled.  Giving us the makeshift arrow line was a nice patchwork solution, but it doesn't scale adequately; it doesn't solve the problem.Let's face it, almost no RPG ever has succeeded in making limited ammunition a fun aspect of gameplay.  Forget for a moment about the realism factor; what would it take for mechanics to be equivalent across the board?  You'd have to introduce new consumbales that other classes need on a similar scale.  Necros would need their 4000 bat wings; templars their peridots.  Melee classes would need to buy 4000 whet stones from weaponsmiths before each night's hunting. Changing arrows to non-consumables would allow the devs to create new arrow content that they can't right now.  If they want to introduce a new arrow type right now, they have to worry about making it powerful enough to be appealing to non-rangers, but not powerful enough to give rangers an unfair advantage - an impossible dillemma.  They would also have the impossible task of limiting how many of the new arrow are in play: if they make it too rare/expensive, nobody will ever bother to use it.; if they make it too common, it will be used at every possible opertunity, and create adventure-power imbalances.  (Look at rare poisons for an example of how hard that sort of thing is to balance.)On the other hand, by making ammunition a durable good, like bows and swords and helms, the devs can encourage other classes to use archery more.  (If it affected only autoattack, there wouldn't be a big imbalance between rangers and others.)  They could, if they wanted, have mob-dropped shadowknight-only arrow bundles.  At the very least, players would be encouraged to carry a bundle of each piercing, slashing, and crushing types, if they use bows much.

[Gareorn]

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Ammo currently player made ammo isn't highly used which needs to change these need to be the standard that adventurers want to buy.  They can get by with store bought ammo but should rather want player crafted ammo.

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This is the statement that scares me.  Why?  Because the easiest way to make crafted ammo more desireable is to reduce the damage provided by the store bought and summoned ammo.  This would have the effect of Rangers, and only Rangers, having to spend more money just to maintain our current [sic] DPS.

And we know from past experience, that the devs always make the change that is the easiest to implement.

[ADW123]

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Bithnar wrote:

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ADW123 wrote:

 

A stack of common Tier 7 arrows for 50 sp cost would be reasonable in my opinion. Maybe 5gp a stack for rare arrows.

 

---

I am also a woodcrafter with my Ranger and I can tell you no woodcrafter would sell a stack of T7 arrows for 50sp.  One reason is because of Space.  In a normal Inn room you can have two boxes in you bank with, not sure of the T7 boxes, but a total of around 70 vault spaces.  Another reason is because of the fuel cost to make the arrow - One final combine on the arrows only makes 25 arrows.  Another reason is money vs. time

On the crafting each final combine on the totems produces 3 totems, wereas the final combine on arrows only makes 25.  So to fill those 70 vault spaces I need about 23 final combines for totems and 277 final combines for the arrows.  And lets not get into the fuel costs at T7 (i wont get into it cause I havent looked at it yet :smileyvery-happy

At lvl 43 woodworker I can make 70 totems of the chamelon (invis totem) and sell them for 1g each for a total of 70g or I can spend as 12 times as much time making 70 stacks of arrows and sell them for 50sp each 50sp x 70 = 35g not hard to do the math.

Unless they make a BIG change in how arrows are crafted it isn't gonna happen.  At least not for 50sp a stack.

Edit:

I just checked.  Both use the same number of fuels (just different ones) from begining to final combine so the fuel costs are the same.  Eleven total fuels are used (I didn't count water cause its cheap).  I dont know the fuel costs per tier. 

Message Edited by Bithnar on 03-02-200607:04 AM

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I don't have a woodworker so my knowledge in the area is limited. I do know they are a huge pain to make, several combines and 2gp+ cost for 25 arrows at tier 7 is ridiculus and I can understand why no one in their right mind would craft them. I'm sure something can be done though to make them a reasonable item to sell. Possibly increase the stack size to 500 or 1000. What would need to be done to make them worthwhile to sell for you? or even to just make for yourself?

As far my estimates for 50sp a stack for common and 5gp a stack for rare, these were at cost. Obviously you would have some markup on the broker, possibly selling at 1gp/8-10gp a stack or whatnot. I think we can agree that something needs to be done w/ those combines since they are such a waste of time and impossible to sell as it is.

Sacrifice63 RangerUnrest

[ADW123]

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Gareorn wrote:

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Ammo currently player made ammo isn't highly used which needs to change these need to be the standard that adventurers want to buy.  They can get by with store bought ammo but should rather want player crafted ammo.

---

This is the statement that scares me.  Why?  Because the easiest way to make crafted ammo more desireable is to reduce the damage provided by the store bought and summoned ammo.  This would have the effect of Rangers, and only Rangers, having to spend more money just to maintain our current DPS.

And we know from past experience, that the devs always make the change that is the easiest to implement.

---

I think that using the way I have things laid out this is how things would work. With the cheap vendor bought arrows rangers would get by doing the full potential damage of their bow but crafted would still be wanted to help get that extra boost in dps.

 

I can certainly see how they will screw this up though. The way he mentions it, it sounds like they are going to implement arrow combines that will need to be used to get the full damage from our bow and not even offer them on vendors making things even worse than they are now

 

Sacrifice63 RangerUnrest

Message Edited by ADW123 on 03-02-200601:46 PM

Message Edited by ADW123 on 03-02-200601:46 PM

[Dirtgirl]

Why dont the merchants in KoS sell Adamantine arrows? For the love of God they are selling FULGINATE!!!!!!!

[Carna]

I'd like to hear a dev try and justify why Rangers have to pay to do t2 and less damage....Until they can justify the cost, the cost simply needs to be removed.

[Kelader]

I think that an alternative would be to change the summon arrow spell line to:

1.  Summon an appropiate level of arrow.  At level 44 I can only summon feyiron and won't be able to summon fulginate until 48.  I will never be never be able to summon appropiate arrows for my ironwood bow when I am in my 50's.  This may have not been a big deal back when procs supplied the damage but it sure as heck is now.

2.  Summon an increased number of arrows.  Should be along the lines of 50 at apprentice 1, 100 at adept 1, 200 at master.  The current number of arrows summoned is not appropiate for the rate of use.

I have not seen evidence that woodworkers sell many arrows - I don't think its going to change their lives much.

 

[ADW123]

1. It appears they are heading in this direction already. The level 62 arrow summon now summons adamantine arrows. They simply need to upgrade the lower summons to provide better quality arrows.

2. This would certainly help things if they increased this quite a bit.

Woodworkers don't sell many arrows because they cost more to make then to buy off the vendor and to make a stack of arrows takes about 15 minutes. If they changed these to be cheaper and faster to make this might be something worth selling.

Sacrifice63 RangerUnrest

[Teksun]

Actually, what they NEED to do is have ONE summon arrows and have it upgrade with level. That way you can take it at master 2 or buy/find master one and not have to worry about it ever again...

[dubbs]

I like both Shader and Sacrifice's ideas, but more partial to Shader's.  The idea of attunable, non-consumable bundles of arrows is very appealing.  The constantly recurring costs of purchasing 3000 arrows a day has never sat well with me (and yes I have Adept 3 Summon arrows, but it's not enough).  I could palate it up until recently (Live Update 20) when I could no longer get by with my tin arrows. 

I believe the ability to purchase and use a bundle of arrows, just like you would a melee weapon, or any piece of gear is a fair approach.  I know this is a game, so realism can only go so far, but when you think about it, why don't tanks have to repair their gear more often (not talking repairs from death), the mob is beating on them all day and they incur the same repair costs as everybody else?  Mages don't have spell components, why not?  Additionally, melee fighters should have to carry whet stones, to continually sharpen their weapon after each fight.   It just doesn't make sence to have these extra unnecessary burdens, so why should consumable arrows be any different?

Woodworkers don't craft Arrows in anywhere near the scale that would be required to keep the Ranger Community in stock, much less every other class that needs them as well.  I think this would change, if they had craftable bundles, that people would buy one time (per tier of course).  Make common and rare bundle types, as well as Crushing, Slashing, Piercing.  This is less an issue since outright Immunities were removed, but still a viable option, that many, if not all rangers would buy all 3.

 

 

[papasmurf1004]

The problem with the new T7 pickup arrows is that they are still classed as lvl 50 arrows the same as indium. How is that even possible. I agree with the pricing issues and the making of arrows like many of us i have a woodworker but still do not make my own arrows because basically it sucks to do. So i guess i will see more ranger doing what i saw one do the other day and that is stand somewhere safe and macro pick up arrows for the hours they are asleep. And even then they are only getting lvl 50 arrows. Silly SOE. But i will say on a good note I love the changes now, it really seperates the good rangers from the not so good ones and we can still do uber damage you just need to adjust your play style a little. (but don't bother trying to solo heriocs lol)

 

Message Edited by papasmurf1004 on 03-04-200601:44 AM

[Sirlutt]

the current problem i see aswell is that the arrows consumed when you use a bow CA are "wasted" .. if you have a stack of crafted arrows in there and they are being used for your auto attacks, thats great but as soon as you hit triple shot you use 3 of them up, and get no extra damage what so ever.  You could have used tin arrows for that CA and got the same damage.  I go through alot of arrows, mainly because of my CA's.I'd ask that CA's use the lowest tier arrows in the quiver and auto attack uses the highest tier available.

[Sirlutt]

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dubbs wrote:

I like both Shader and Sacrifice's ideas, but more partial to Shader's.  The idea of attunable, non-consumable bundles of arrows is very appealing.  The constantly recurring costs of purchasing 3000 arrows a day has never sat well with me (and yes I have Adept 3 Summon arrows, but it's not enough).  I could palate it up until recently (Live Update 20) when I could no longer get by with my tin arrows. 

I believe the ability to purchase and use a bundle of arrows, just like you would a melee weapon, or any piece of gear is a fair approach.  I know this is a game, so realism can only go so far, but when you think about it, why don't tanks have to repair their gear more often (not talking repairs from death), the mob is beating on them all day and they incur the same repair costs as everybody else?  Mages don't have spell components, why not?  Additionally, melee fighters should have to carry whet stones, to continually sharpen their weapon after each fight.   It just doesn't make sence to have these extra unnecessary burdens, so why should consumable arrows be any different?

Woodworkers don't craft Arrows in anywhere near the scale that would be required to keep the Ranger Community in stock, much less every other class that needs them as well.  I think this would change, if they had craftable bundles, that people would buy one time (per tier of course).  Make common and rare bundle types, as well as Crushing, Slashing, Piercing.  This is less an issue since outright Immunities were removed, but still a viable option, that many, if not all rangers would buy all 3.

 

 

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i kind of like that actually.  Quivers were a nice addition but really what should have happened was a bundle of arrows type item that you equip in youre ranged slot.  Almost like a endless quiver, but for everyone.  Make slash/pierce/crushing .. make rare versions of each.. make versions that are imbued (take the imbuement off of the bows)also, do the same for throwing weapons ..

[Dirtgirl]

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papasmurf1004 wrote:

The problem with the new T7 pickup arrows is that they are still classed as lvl 50 arrows the same as indium. How is that even possible. I agree with the pricing issues and the making of arrows like many of us i have a woodworker but still do not make my own arrows because basically it sucks to do. So i guess i will see more ranger doing what i saw one do the other day and that is stand somewhere safe and macro pick up arrows for the hours they are asleep. And even then they are only getting lvl 50 arrows. Silly SOE. But i will say on a good note I love the changes now, it really seperates the good rangers from the not so good ones and we can still do uber damage you just need to adjust your play style a little. (but don't bother trying to solo heriocs lol)

 

Message Edited by papasmurf1004 on 03-04-200601:44 AM

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I dont know if I'd say uber , but......  /flex      LOL!

*** PUT ADAMANTINE ARROWS AT THE MERCHANTS IN KoS FOR THE LOVE OF TUNARE !!!!!!!Outta make that my new signature......

[USAFJeeper]

I have a level 42 Woodworker alt and I can tell you that making arrows is quite simply a pain in the rear end.  I had made him a woodworker so I could make my own arrows.  Lets just say that I buy my arrows from a vendor and use my salvage arrows button whenever able to. 

[Bithnar]

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USAFJeeper wrote:

I have a level 42 Woodworker alt and I can tell you that making arrows is quite simply a pain in the rear end.  I had made him a woodworker so I could make my own arrows.  Lets just say that I buy my arrows from a vendor and use my salvage arrows button whenever able to. 

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Ditto.  Like I said above arrow making sucks like a orek vacumm

[Incedio]

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I dont know if I'd say uber , but......  /flex      LOL!

*** PUT ADAMANTINE ARROWS AT THE MERCHANTS IN KoS FOR THE LOVE OF TUNARE !!!!!!!Outta make that my new signature......

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I don't know how you can afford to buy current Tier arrows in the 1st place. I burned through 2 quivers of arrows the other night XPing for 6 hours in Sanctum. That's 3600 arrows with my Backup Quiver at Adept III I can summon 45 arrows every 10 minutes.(This was before I made 62 and scribed M1 Reclaimed)

 In 6 hours I can summon 1620 of my 3600 arrows burned. If I were to go over to DoF and buy T6 arrows for 3.5gp per stack that night of XPing would have cost me 70gp in arrows roughly. Now, that's not a bank breaking amount of gold to say the least but it does add up over time. I know that I can't afford to shoot 70gp out of my bow every 6 hours, I just can't do it. :smileymad: And those are only T6 arrows I would hate to see how much that number is going to jump up for T7. Then add poisons on top of that, and that makes it pretty expensive just to to keep my DPS up for XPing.

Message Edited by Incedious on 03-03-200612:07 PM

[Bithnar]

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ADW123 wrote:

Possibly increase the stack size to 500 or 1000. What would need to be done to make them worthwhile to sell for you? or even to just make for yourself?

As far my estimates for 50sp a stack for common and 5gp a stack for rare, these were at cost. Obviously you would have some markup on the broker, possibly selling at 1gp/8-10gp a stack or whatnot. I think we can agree that something needs to be done w/ those combines since they are such a waste of time and impossible to sell as it is.

Sacrifice63 RangerUnrest

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As it stand right now If I make an arrow head it produces 3 heads per combine (I think this is the number not sure).  However you only make one fletch per cmbine and only one shaft per combine.  If they would up those combines to make 3 each (better yet 5) that would help.  Also make the pristine final combine produce at least 50 arrows and allow us to stack 2-300, or more, per VAULT space.  These would help making the arrows cheaper because of volume produced has increased.   Also, make the Final arrow combine take about 25-50% less time to complete for SoW (Save our Wrists). 

Message Edited by Bithnar on 03-03-200612:02 PM

[Dirtgirl]

Aye, as it stands I burn thru anywhere from 30 to 40 stacks of arrows in a serious grind session. Right now, i am still just using tin arrows for XPing. If I auto attack, I do it melee, not with my bow. The only time i use higher level is on a named, or the occasional t6 raid we toss in to break from the grind.My point about the Adamantine is that they arent even available for purchase to begin with. But yes, I have dumped over a plat on indium arrows on several occasions in the past, especially right before a raid.

My greatest hope is for one of two things....something like "endless quiver" or any of the above mentioned ideas for having lots of arrows, even if it means selling my soul to a crafter to get one   -OR-   selling whole stacks of level appropriate arrows thru zone merchants for around the price of what any archer could make in loot in the time it takes to use that many arrows.Oh say....1gp or 2gp a stack for T7. And even that would be pretty high compared to what i can gain fighting in that much time.

[Vlath]

It would be nice to be able to "retrieve" our arrows from mobs that we kill. Perhaps 2/3 of those  used to account for broken arrows and such.

 

I mean, dont archers often retrieve their arrows from their prey?

 

Schade, NaGaFeN

[Dirtgirl]

I think that was the initial intent with "Rip". A good idea might be to maybe have a castable spell that allowed you to maybe pullx# of arrows from your foes corpse....Or maybe change the  new skill "Bounty" or what ever it is to give us arrows instead of a few silver. That might actually make that spell useful.

[Bayler_x]

Recoverable arrows is a nice idea, but you're asking the devs to implement some complicated extra tracking of info for a very specific case.  That's part of why they gave up on making Rip keep track of whether you were eligiable to use it, I'm sure.In order to make it work, they'd need to keep track of how many arrows of each type were shot into each mob by each player.  (We wouldn't want rangers exploiting this as a means of trading summoned arrows.  Nor would we want ninja-arrow-looters.)  Think of how much dev time would be spent on bugs related to this.  Think about the complaints they'd have to deal with when they wanted to have, say, a mob despawn and spawn as something else in the middle of the fight.  Think about the complaints if a corpse - which was otherwise unimportant - was unreachable.  Think about the complications from unlocked encounters.All those complications arise from an attempt to make what is fundementally a tedious game mechanic somewhat less tedious.  I mean, do any of you actually *like* having limited ammunition?  (Carrying around 4000 arrows certainly doesn't stand up to the "realism" argument.)  The game has a tangle of hacks to try to make limited arrows into a playable game system, but there's no reason it should be.  Give us durable arrow bundles, instead.

[Kala Asuras]

I started a post about this topic in the woodworkers forums here shortly after Beghn announced his intentions.  The main point was to make the crafting community aware of the disparity in arrow use of rangers compaired to all other classes.  The main problem is that the vast majority of our arrows are used in our CAs and don't even get a benifit of arrow type (other than changing the dmg type).  I'm all for a change that will increase the damage and desirability of crafted arrows but what I said was that there must be come comunication between Beghn and a developer incharge of Ranger mechanics to be sure that we are not going to be forced to pay 20X the amount for the added benifit.Raise some suggestions if you have them or offer support in that thread but remember we are guests in the woodworkers forums.  We want to keep it a constructive thread that will catch the attention of the people in charge.