Can we still do our job? (No rants here, pls) - Page 3

Yrield · 02-23-2006, 07:12 AM

60 ranger with no CAs under Adept3, using Dark fury long bow (t6 fabled) and poison1. Can you still fill the DPS role adequately in groups?Sure... if a Monk/bruiser/Zerker/Bards can be dps in group... we can

2. What skills, if any, were "broken" in the patch?SoA is acting weird, all others CAs are "broken" if we are supposed to be T1 dps

3. Are you able to solo effectively?

No, i can do a nice solo round every 15min or so (sniper shot up), correct round every 2min or so (Stealthy fire and trap up) other than that... my solo game is Sit and Wait

4. If applicable: do you bring enough to the raid table to be a worthwhile contributor?No periodWe need to be fixed ASAP, right now we are out of the loop

Message Edited by Yrieldom on 02-22-200609:16 PM

Nimana · 02-23-2006, 07:23 AM

Now why should I lie?

Not only am I soloing just fine, others are too. Check out what Sphiriah (lvl 50), DbMorland (lvl 55), Zeijandi (lvl 55) and others are reporting. Tobann (lvl 55) claims to be able to kill white one arrows up and yellow conned mobs (no arrows). Bongotez (lvl 44 (?)) has posted pictures and a parse of himself killing a yellow conned mob WITHOUT EVEN USING POISON.

Rangers are not having (and should not have) problems with soloing in PF or SS. There may be difficulties for those trying to solo in KoS though. That does not however, seem to be a problem for rangers exclusively...

Devs will be testing our claims for themselves, and lying about our situation will only lead to a loss of both credibility and sympathy! Let's work together to make our class both fun and wanted1

Message Edited by Nimanael on 02-22-200606:29 PM

Message Edited by Nimanael on 02-22-200606:34 PM

Message Edited by Nimanael on 02-23-200612:55 PM

smoody · 02-23-2006, 07:34 AM

Jay42 wrote:
First: I'm not going to tell anyone how to post, but I'm going to ask that you keep replies to THIS thread in the constructive and mature category. Go ahead and vent, rage, throw the tantrum if you need to - there are PLENTY of threads for that already. I'd like this one to be informative and help us answer some questions. Please respect that.

Second: I know we're all seeing drastically reduced numbers, but IMO, comparing your DPS now with your DPS last week is just plain folly. Of course it's going to be much, much lower. We knew that. We were overpowered, now we're not. You can disagree all you want with how SOE accomplished "fixing" us, but just accept that the DPS we were doing is thing of the past. If you needed to be top dog in every group or raid to enjoy your toon, I'm sorry, but you probably should look elsewhere. I hear Baskin-Robbins is offering a great deal on summoners this month.

We need to determine if the pendulum swung too far in reducing our DPS, and if it did, we need to figure out how to restore it to the level where we belong. I realize some of these questions will take more time testing and parsing to really answer, and that's fine. No hurry here. I'm looking for informative feedback derived from direct, firsthand experience. I'm also looking for information across levels and equipment - not just the end-game crowd.

1. Can you still fill the DPS role adequately in groups?

2. What skills, if any, were "broken" in the patch?

3. Are you able to solo effectively?

4. If applicable: do you bring enough to the raid table to be a worthwhile contributor?

Hoping that at least some of you can be level-headed enough to provide helpful information so we can identify the biggest problem areas. I know everyone is freaking out right now, that's fine, I'm not happy myself - and I encourage you to work out that frustration and anger in whatever way you see fit - but please don't go off on flame-fests and rants here; plenty of other threads for that.

Thanks for your consideration and assistance.

1. I haven't been able to so far.

2. Haven't found any "broken" but several are modified in wrong way.

3. Not really. The highest level I have been successful with is a level 58.

4. Not sure. It would be interesting to see. However the group DPS is down so far, it isn't looking good.

Fredethel

Edit: Just for reference, I have all Adept III or Master's with a mix of Fabled and Legendary gear.

Message Edited by smoody on 02-22-200606:37 PM

rcknchr · 02-23-2006, 08:08 AM

Im a 38 level Ranger with above average gear most of my armor and all 3 weapons (pristine imbued oak longbow, polished granite tomahawk, and a pristine imbued feysteel sai) are Legendary. All of my bow CA are AD3 and the 4 melee CA are AD1. Went to Nek Castle today and pull a 31^^^ hellhound (green con) and barely beat him. I had 6% health left. If my tomahawk would not have procced i would have died. So then I pull 2 31^^ gargoyles. I took the 1st one down but the 2nd one killed me and it was still at 60% health.Our soloing has become nonexistant and boring when you do try. Our bow CA seem weak too because at best youre only gonna get 2 off before they are in your face and we just dont have the melee CA to take them. I think our dps should have been brought down, but they should not have made the class worthless by dropping our dps as much as they did. I dont see us as being picked first over the other scout classes because they have group utility spells, but i think we will still get groups when people are just looking for any class to fill a spot. I dont raid so cant say about the raiding end of the game. It is dissappointing that after think around 7 years (only played for 4 not exactly sure how long its been out) of EQ1 and 2 years of EQ2 SoE still cant seem to find a happy medium for the Ranger class. Hopefully since they didnt listen before when this was in beta maybe they will start listening to what their fanbase and customers are saying and try and make it right. I was also using vendor bought posion with a medium damage on impact and medium damage dot. Think somewhere around 65 on impact and 85 every so many seconds.

Message Edited by rcknchr74 on 02-22-200607:11 PM

Nimana · 02-23-2006, 08:36 AM

Message Edited by Nimanael on 02-23-200612:55 PM

Guy De Alsace · 02-23-2006, 08:58 AM

Level 60 Ranger here. Just like to say that I got Scalesplitter in Temple of Scale (legendary Katana) and use the fairly cheap Aegis of Scorn now instead of two weapons. It seems to help me solo a lot. I go offensive stance in the initial pull with a bow and switch to defensive in melee. Use one store bought damage poison which I can remember the name of.Killed a named lvl 58^ and yellow conned grp (lvl 61 one downs) fairly easily in KoS. The group I was in in Temple of Scale didnt complain about my dps at all but I think the wizard was suprised she kept getting aggro. I rarely got aggro pre-LU20 anyway due to using Improved Surveil and lots of aggro debuffs.We're definitely missing something. I reckon our damage output is a shade too low now for our pure dps role. I dont think the devs thought about the fact that Rangers have nothing else whatsoever to bring to a group except dps. We do need to be just slightly over the wizzies/warlocks to compensate for our lack of utility.At the moment the class is broken by this change but not in a catastrophic way. KoS simply highlights the shortcomings due to its design and population (fairly small areas, lots of one-up mobs who are all aggro)Our lvl 1 AA needs looking at too. At the moment its completely worthless.

smoody · 02-23-2006, 08:58 AM

Let's be clear about something. You aren't supposed to be able to solo heroic mobs. Posting results of solo encounters against heroic mobs isn't going to get dev attention. They have clearly stated that those mobs are intended for groups. However, solo mobs with a single up arrow are easy pickings for many of our scout friends, and they often times hand us our rear end on a platter.

We have very little melee skills and they are on long refresh timers, no point blank bow skills, and no way to keep the mob off of us. The issue could be fixed easily in any number of ways. SOE just has to provide us the capability. It is frustrating to see another scout, a cleric, a mage and a tank easily kill a mob which is a race with the random number generator for me to kill. These are solo con mobs, not heroics. We were getting away with fighting these mobs prior to LU20 since we were doing such insane DPS we could kill them before they got to us. However, now we are back at a point where we are seeing the problems with the ranger class which have existed since LU13.

Rangers, let's post results and feedback that will net us some results. I want the devs to take a hard look at the viability of this class post LU20. Posting results regarding fights against heroic mobs won't get us those results.1. We need an effective way to solo. Whether that is increasing our melee arts, decreasing timers or providing us with a real root of some sort.2. We need some relief from the costs of arrows. I suggest removing arrow levels completely. Or provide an infinite quiver. I'll pay 5p for one of those. SMILEY 3. We need to provide a reason to exist in a group. I am Ok with the being DPS only, but as such, we should be at or near the top of the DPS charts. This doesn't mean we should be twice that of an assasin or any other scout class. I am simply saying we should be Tier 1. Currently we appear to be solidly in T2 behind swashbucklers and brigands.

Fredethel

Nimana · 02-23-2006, 09:22 AM

Message Edited by Nimanael on 02-23-200612:56 PM

S'ilk · 02-23-2006, 10:01 AM

Well I am a long time lurker here always found a lot of good info on the ranger forums. I have been playing my ranger since Nov 2004 so I was around before LU13. I understand the wanting to bring our DPS in line with other "tier 1" DPS classes but what I do not understand is this.

If we are doing the same DPS in a grp or raid why have the ranger, what do we bring to the table? Looking at it that way if I was not leading the DPS numbers in my raids I was not doing my job. If we are doing the same DPS as other classes then why take a class with 0 utility over one that does equal DPS and has grp utility.

Kasmir

60 Ranger Blackburrow

KannaWhoopass · 02-23-2006, 10:22 AM

This is some of my gear

Boots of Many Shadows

Coif of Many Shadows

Chestguard of Swirling Energy

Flame Etched Gloves

Gem Encrusted Bracelet of the Sun

Mantle of Many Shadows

Earthen Band

Foreman's Shank

sabre from the godking

also my vanadium str ring

vanadium wrist

spiregaze neck

im lvl 60 with all attack spells at Master 1 or 2

i die to lvl 58^

i die to lvl 60

this is why i dont believe you ....

Think of the time i spent getting this gear

I know how to use my class

to be fair perhaps the old zones are easy ....KOS is a POS for rangers

Message Edited by KannaWhoopass on 02-22-200609:23 PM

Nimana · 02-23-2006, 02:45 PM

I'm NOT saying that rangers are fine soloing in KoS. I have not tried it yet, so I really don't have a clue. I DO believe those that say that they are having a hard time post LU20. And I sympathize with you all!

I think SOE has hit rangers too hard with the nerf bat. I think these last adjustments prove that PvP WILL affect all players. I don't like it. Power consumption suddenly has become an issue, casting times are increased, some CAs have become less effective, poison procs have been severely reduced, mobs' run speed increased. All this at ONCE! Making such a huge change to one class' abilities surely will cause frustration!

I too would like to see our class fixed, I don't want to have to melee mobs. I'd give away my chain any day for some leather and better dps. (My wood elf ranger does look kind of androgyne anyway, it would only be befitting if he wore leather SMILEY )

I hope your problems will get fixed soon Kanna. All rangers having bought the expansion should be enjoying its content now, not venting their frustrations on the class board. But attacking other posters' integrity is not the way to go...

Good luck to you!

Message Edited by Nimanael on 02-23-200612:58 PM

MrDiz · 02-23-2006, 03:16 PM

58^^^ almost owned me .........

I know nerfs hit hard, and its worse when they do it at the same time as a new expansion because you wanted to focus on the new material, not the new problems with your class. But try to look at it dispassionately for a second.Unless your lvl 65+ already thats still amazing soloing! I cant do that on any of my chars... maybe my illusionist can handle 53^^^, my guardian can parhaps do 50^^^, and my templar just cannot do any heroics.I dont think soloing is a problem for rangers right now. I think the problem is the changes to your class came in one massive hard hitting dose and it has totally thrown you off your rhythm. Basically the screwed up in how they delivered these changes.Im sure if there are any real inbalances between ranger dps and other tier1 dps classes they will be addressed over the next few weeks. Hang in there and know that rangers are still always welcome in my groups.

Message Edited by MrDizzi on 02-23-200602:26 AM

Loktha · 02-23-2006, 03:18 PM

I started my ranger after the lu20 patch and therefore have no experience with the ranger pre-lu20(I wanted to try something else than the 23 pally i have atm).

I am currently at level 8 and still on the starting island.

I do not have any problems soloing the white or blue conned mobs there. But i must add here that i almost cannot use my ranged ablilities since i only have 2. I often can use only one and then the mob is already at my doorstep so i have to revert to meleeing.

Now dont get me wrong i dont have a problem with meleeing otherwise i wouldnt have started a pally, but Rangers dont get called Rangers for nothing.

Furthermore i am not an experienced ranger so maybe i still have to get some experience at fighting on a distance SMILEY

.

Anyway what i want to say is, i dont feel like playing a ranged class. I feel more like playing a melee class with some ranged abilities.

I dont know if that changes at later levels... i hope so. Otherwise "Ranger" is not the correct name for this class.

Cron · 02-23-2006, 04:15 PM

I'm getting the strange feeling that this update is a lot like LU 13. It seems to me that some levels are having a harder time with the changes than others. Maybe it's my gear that's making it easier for me to adjust, but to be quite honest, I'm not having that much of an issue with the changes. As it were, if it weren't for the fact that I'm parsing the battles, I don't feel like I've lost a whole lot (in soloability). I still haven't really grouped yet (duoed). I went into KoS again last night and in both TT and Barren Sky, I was able to take solo mobs 5 levels above me. I took out multiple mobs in the same way I use to. I did not use any stun poison last night. Adeste and Glox.Rather than call everyone liars or assume people are saying YOU can't play effectively, why don't we just stop and see why you might be having problems. This is what we did for LU13 and it seems to me a lot of Rangers were helped by that.You will recall that there were a number of people that couldn't kill anything after 13. There were an equal amount of people that felt we were gods (we were). It was just such a huge change on the player that it threw some people off. Maybe that's what is going on here. I don't know.Some things I've noticed and it probably has been discussed but I'm brain dead this morning. Cheap shot is a 6 second stun and no longer upgradeable. It says mine is a level 4 but doesn't show that I had it at Adept 1. I can now get two shots in while they are stunned.Deabilitating Arrow is no longer able to be fired on the run. Cull (backshot) is and so is Storm of Arrows.Having said all this, I do think we were put below the classes we are suppose to be equal with. I don't have hard numbers yet, but I'm seeing casters in KoS do what they've always done. Root, nuke, rinse. And they are doing it far better than I am. I really would like to get with some Rangers on Butcherblock (in the realm of level 60 for comparisions) and start seeing the differences. Kae, Tek, anyone?

MrDiz · 02-23-2006, 04:43 PM

Yeah, remember lu13/dof, mitigation tanks were seriously outclassed by the avoidance tanks. Didnt take more than a few weeks for lu14 to hit and the situation to right itself. Ever 3 or 4 more updates the situation was slowly balanced until we have a sort of equilibrium amongst tanks. Give it time and im sure this equilibrium between dps will be found again.In the meantime, just know that many of us know how blasted annoying such major turn arounds are and feel for you guys.

BedlamX · 02-23-2006, 06:00 PM

MrDizzi wrote:
58^^^ almost owned me .........
I know nerfs hit hard, and its worse when they do it at the same time as a new expansion because you wanted to focus on the new material, not the new problems with your class. But try to look at it dispassionately for a second.Unless your lvl 65+ already thats still amazing soloing! I cant do that on any of my chars... maybe my illusionist can handle 53^^^, my guardian can parhaps do 50^^^, and my templar just cannot do any heroics.I dont think soloing is a problem for rangers right now. I think the problem is the changes to your class came in one massive hard hitting dose and it has totally thrown you off your rhythm. Basically the screwed up in how they delivered these changes.Im sure if there are any real inbalances between ranger dps and other tier1 dps classes they will be addressed over the next few weeks. Hang in there and know that rangers are still always welcome in my groups.
Message Edited by MrDizzi on 02-23-200602:26 AM

Granted this is an open forum but why is it that other classes feel the need to add thier input to a thread that is asking Rangers if they feel they can do thier job. you stated that you feel that soloing is a not problem for rangers I see by your sig that you dont have a ranger so how can you sir comment on what you know nothing about.There are plenty of other threads in this forum that you can make those statements in This thread was for Rangers the OP wasnt asking how other classes feel we can do our job.BedlamX

MrDiz · 02-23-2006, 06:53 PM

BedlamX wrote: Granted this is an open forum but why is it that other classes feel the need to add thier input to a thread that is asking Rangers if they feel they can do thier job.

To show support for you. To tell you it isnt all bad and that we still want you in our groups. To tell you when I need DPS ill still take rangers without hesitation. Come on bud, if there is an inbalance with ranger DPS it will be spotted within days and im sure it will be fixed. We all want our raid rangers putting out the DPS SMILEY

you stated that you feel that soloing is a not problem for rangers I see by your sig that you dont have a ranger so how can you sir comment on what you know nothing about.

I know I cant solo heroics on my templar. Most of us still cant solo the things that guy I replied to said he can "barely" solo. Just giving him some perspective to help ease the transition. It could be worse, altho I realise that may be little comfort.

This thread was for Rangers the OP wasnt asking how other classes feel we can do our job.

Ok, I didnt mean to offend. So ill leave.If it helps I think doing this sort of 'fix' at the same time as releasing an expansion is such a dumb idea of Sonys, because it now ruins the expansion for you, and I know exactly how that feels I assure you SMILEY

Message Edited by MrDizzi on 02-23-200605:54 AM

BedlamX · 02-23-2006, 07:29 PM

MrDizzi wrote:
BedlamX wrote: Granted this is an open forum but why is it that other classes feel the need to add thier input to a thread that is asking Rangers if they feel they can do thier job.
To show support for you. To tell you it isnt all bad and that we still want you in our groups. To tell you when I need DPS ill still take rangers without hesitation. Come on bud, if there is an inbalance with ranger DPS it will be spotted within days and im sure it will be fixed. We all want our raid rangers putting out the DPS The problem I have here is not with you personally, support os welcomed however it is with the fact that you and others dont feel that it "isnt all bad". I must tell you if you want DPS the ranger is not the answer anymore The current state of affairs would indicate that the ranger is no longer a dps class. This has been well documented with the testing going on and the numbers being posted.
you stated that you feel that soloing is a not problem for rangers I see by your sig that you dont have a ranger so how can you sir comment on what you know nothing about.
I know I cant solo heroics on my templar. Most of us still cant solo the things that guy I replied to said he can "barely" solo. Just giving him some perspective to help ease the transition. It could be worse, altho I realise that may be little comfort.I am not sure how things could be worse. Not to nickpic but templars are healers were you ever meant to solo I dont know much about your class. Comparing the two classes on a soloing is crazy. If anything we should be compared to the warlock or wizzy before and after.
This thread was for Rangers the OP wasnt asking how other classes feel we can do our job.
Ok, I didnt mean to offend. So ill leave.You didnt offend me. I just want to point out that this is not the thread to be posting your opinions or reactions to other posts on. Unless you have put the time and energy into a ranger to see it ripped out from under you. I dont think you could understand. If it helps I think doing this sort of 'fix' at the same time as releasing an expansion is such a dumb idea of Sonys, because it now ruins the expansion for you, and I know exactly how that feels I assure you
This one I agree with you on. IMHO we wernt broke post LU13 we were givin abilities to bring us right where we belong. It has been said before by others Rangers have but 1 job and that is to kill and kill quick. Everything else we do can be accomplished by other classes. I stand by this statement ....No one pre LU20 had a problem with us doing massive DMG when it benefited them either in an instance or group or raid just as long as the masters and fables kept droping. I have yet to figure out SOE's master plan someday I might until then I wish all of the rangers good hunting.
Message Edited by MrDizzi on 02-23-200605:54 AM

BedlamX

Mary the Prophetess · 02-23-2006, 07:43 PM

MrDizzi:

I, for one, appreciate your interest, and your constructive comments. It is enlightening to me to hear the views of non-Rangers, and to get a more informed picture of the difficulties other classes face vis-a-vie Rangers.

Thank-you for participating, and, (at least from MY perspective), I hope you will not be put off and continue to be an active part of this discussion.

I am very encouraged that Blackguard will be looking closely at each tier of Rangers (using non-Legendary/Fabled gear) to evaluate just how these changes effect Rangers [AT ALL LEVELS AND PLAY STYLES]. I am now a bit more confident that at least some of the issues I am concerned about (ie: soloing at mid levels with medicore equipment), will be examined, and (hopefully), corrected over the next several patches.

Shaulin Dolamite · 02-23-2006, 07:50 PM

I know its only been a few days but it would seem to me that sony should peek in on this thread with an "we are here reading" post. This thread has been constructive and quite flame free from what I have read. If this gets us heard this type of constructive posting then SOE should support it. I know "we are here" isnt much but it helps to keep it possitive and constructive.

Any type of forward progress at this point is leaps and bounds imho.

physics20 · 02-23-2006, 08:15 PM

Ok I finally got a chance to test out my character and this is what I noticed. First of all, I did not go to KoS (I'm only 56) so instead I went to SS and also tried out the Tears instances in Maj'Dul. In all the cases, I was using only one poison (the cheap vendor bought poison) because I'm cheap. In SS, I had no problem whatsoever killing giants (50^^^) and gnolls (51-52^^). It took a little longer than before but I still used the same pre-LU20 strategy I had: snare and kite.I did however notice a big change in the Tears instances zones in Maj'Dul. First of all, correct me if I am wrong, but it appears that with the KoS expansion they added a few new Tears quests: in this case, I was asked to go into a house and evict the residents, who were all frogloks. In all my time of doing Tears quests, I had never been given one where the Maj'Dul residents were frogloks. Perhaps I was just incredibly unlucky, but these frogs were frickin' tough...at least alot more than the normal residents. I think they were monks or something by the attacks they were doing, and they parried about half of my bow attacks (all my CAs are Adept I or better with most being Adept III and the one M2 Stealthy Fire). Also, they seemed to break my Thorny Trap very easily. So the first few times trying this zone, I had to flee because I was getting owned. Finally, I changed my strategy a bit, and ran the frogs around in a circle and ranged autoattacked them to death, only using one CA on the pull. Using my ranged autoattack my poison procc'ed nicely and they dropped. Not too fun though...Though I haven't been to KoS yet, I was wondering if these parry issues, etc were being experienced in these new zones as well. If these frogloks were added with KoS then maybe all the KoS mobs are parrying or dodging melee/bow attacks at an asanine rate, which might explain why some people have observed spellcasters having an easier time with them. If that's the case, it might not just be rangers having problems, and perhaps it will be changed soon. Just a thought. Also, up until this point, I have never been a proponent of allowing us to use our ranged CA's on the run. While some people thought this made sense, I never thought it was too realistic (realism in EQ2? gasp). I always thought ranged CA's were special attacks that required concentration and precision, and running around while doing them didn't make much sense. Having said that, after the changes, I would like to see a few more of our CA's made so we can move and shoot. The reason being that since our dps has been lowered by a sizeable amount, and many tougher mobs are resistant to our cheap shot, we are having to melee more than we used to in order to solo (or at least I have been). This kind of goes against the spirit of my class, imo, and I'd like to see us still be able to solo while using most of our ranged CA's. Just a suggestion.-Feynman

TaleraRis · 02-23-2006, 08:16 PM

Okay I got in a little playtime last night, so I can comment on #3

I can still solo effectively at level 43. I was finishing up some quests and I took down a group of 3 level 40 2 arrow down mobs. I went to Feerott and was fighting groups of 2 and 3 2 and 1 arrow down level 40 mobs. These are all blue groups to me.

However, non-arrow mobs may have gotten a bit of a beef up. Prior to LU20, I was taking no arrow blue mobs with relative ease. One hit with Triple Fire or Hidden Fire and they were down to yellow. I killed some no arrow green toilers last night in Zek and they weren't quite down to yellow, but I had no problems soloing them.

I took out the Left Hand of Thule, level 42 1 arrow up rather easily, although I had to run from his 3 arrow down blue buddies. But I went back and killed them with no issues.

So, I say I can still solo rather well. I did have the parser running and I capped out at about 200 DPS, but I don't have any records from before. From feel, however, I don't seem to be taking any longer to kill mobs I was killing before.

RustyB · 02-23-2006, 08:20 PM

I dunno guys.... from what I've read and seen you guys were doing WAY too much dps for your class and the thing is you all knew it!

was grouped with a ranger last night and he was still at teh top of the dps chart so basicly you guys went from outrageous dps to acceptable dps.

as for not being able to solo solo mobs now that's just sad =(

TaleraRis · 02-23-2006, 08:24 PM

For one, most statements I've seen from devs regarding rangers had to have been done comparing fully buffed raiding rangers. There's no way a solo ranger could get 4k DPS. So they don't seem to have looked across the board there, looking only at the very top and not surveying a variety of level, gear and spell ranges.

For two, many here have said this sort of damage is insane. We know rangers were overpowered. What we're debating is if these changes were excessive, and I think they were.

nimbus2kgold · 02-23-2006, 08:30 PM

Ok.. killed a few more mobs and parsed some more situations. It boils down to solo=we suck, grouped=not where we should be, but not as bad as I thought.

Took on some average solo blue mobs (think it was 57, im 60) and parsed them. DPS ranged from 125-200 depending. Unacceptable in my book.

Groups were a little better, but not by alot. It was very eratic as well. It ranged from 200-450 ( and the 450 was very very rare... maybe twice in the 2 hours of non-stop grind) Seemed to hover right around 300 for most of the night.

This was using Adestes and either Glox or Shissar, and if you want to see my gear http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=266227104 I also have all masters or Ad3's.

In comparison, the Fury was DPSing at about 450-500 consistantly ( something very wrong when the healer out DPS's the DPS ) and the conjurer was right about 600. (please dont read in that I want those guys nerfed.. I dont! I just want myself improved). I will say, the Wizzy's need some love too, because he was right at 300 with me.

A · 02-23-2006, 09:47 PM

I would agree with the above statement.

Solo is much harder but group isn't really that bad.

We don't really have to hold up on damage now and there are still key skills that provide very consistent dps in group.

One of them is Stream of Arrows which roughly provides 450+ dps for 30 seconds every minute, which somehow makes me question by the way how some people are parsing less than 200 dps as if you only used StoA and did nothing while it is down , on a long parse you should still be above 200 dps SMILEY

Nimana · 02-23-2006, 10:01 PM

physics2000 wrote:Ok I finally got a chance to test out my character and this is what I noticed. First of all, I did not go to KoS (I'm only 56) so instead I went to SS and also tried out the Tears instances in Maj'Dul. In all the cases, I was using only one poison (the cheap vendor bought poison) because I'm cheap. In SS, I had no problem whatsoever killing giants (50^^^) and gnolls (51-52^^). It took a little longer than before but I still used the same pre-LU20 strategy I had: snare and kite.I did however notice a big change in the Tears instances zones in Maj'Dul.

I too feel that I can solo decently when given the option to kite and snare. The question is whether we're able to perform well when fighting in close quarters or against mutli-mob encounters. Up to level 50 rangers only have 1 AoE attack. This attack requires stealth. Our melee abilities are limited, and partly positional, making life hard for rangers at times. Hopefully these issues will be addressed soon! SMILEY

Jay · 02-24-2006, 12:14 AM

I was told last night, rather urgently (in tells), that this thread was getting ugly and that it needed to be rectified. Reading these posts I'm not seeing much flaming or anything, besides accusations of lying and other minor ridiculousness. If someone doesn't believe you, let them; it's their own misery they seek to perpetuate. You know what you did, you know what you're capable of, and if you're using that experience to help other ppl, you're doing the right thing IMESFHO. Just ignore people who you can't reason with after one or two attempts.

This is a *major* adjustment for us. The biggest one in our lives as EQ2 rangers. I don't think it's hopeless, but I do sometimes feel that way. I know I need to relearn my game, discard all my old routines, and start from the ground up. I can't do half the damage I used to, and doing all that damage enabled me to slack on the basics of soloing as a scout class. If I got jumped by a blue ^ mob, I just laughed, stunned it, then vaporized it with two ranged CAs. I can't do that anymore; I'm stuck in melee, cycling HOs, using Honed Reflexes and other buffs to try and max my DPS. I need to relearn those basics.

Got about as discouraged as I can get last night when I'd get caught unawares and my monk partner wasn't immediately nearby to pull the mob off me. As I said to her, "I feel like I can't let go of Mommy's hand now." I used to walk around fearless - totally confident that just about anything with the temerity to start a fight with me would quickly regret it. Now, I enter stealth as soon as I zone in. I stay invisible so I don't aggro any wanderers or sneaky solo mobs. I re-stealth as soon as we finish fighting, b/c if I blunder into something and draw aggro, I'm going to lose a significant amount of health fighting it off on my own.

Hmmm...do I have a point? Probably not - I rarely do - but I'm coming to terms with this being a long, painful adjustment. I'm not adjusted yet, but I'm beginning to see that this will require that reacclimation. I'm getting past the anger that we're being forced to re-learn our class (again). We can still get by. I hope it gets back to being enough fun that I continue to enjoy the game. I hope Sony fixes us up a bit so we're not dealing with many factors limiting our effectiveness. I hope we aren't left behind and forgotten. But this is to some degree in our hands, to continue to collect information, raise awareness, and advocate for change.

dbmoreland · 02-24-2006, 09:59 AM

Jay you hit the nail right on the head, dead on. Before LU20 we could get sloppy and we did. We walked around frearless knowing that any mob designed for an individual was toast in 30 seconds or less, many times dead with but a single bowshot. So we got sloppy, we stopped being a Ranger. We stopped "hunting". We just charged in and let the arrows fly and the mobs dropped. Now it is payback time. We have to relearn how to be a Ranger, how to be a hunter, how to use ALL of our CAs to there maximum effectiveness. For those like me that enjoy a challenge this is going to be a great fun time. Mobs will again fear us when we sneak up on the ONE mob we want, set our trap, let the arrows fly from our bow, draw the mob into our lair and proceed to beat the life out of him, just the way a true hunter should.Looking forward to the fun...

Runewind · 02-24-2006, 12:37 PM

Things are starting to sound more positive today. maybe we aren't as bad as we thought. I haven't been on the last couple days (I went on once on tuesday and then got off) I've been a little too bummed out to actually try to get on and do anything. Some people have been reporting that there may have been some kind of stealth-fix this morning because they seem to be doing better today. Not sure about that. The jury is still out apparantly. I do hope things get better but someone reported doing about the same as a wizard and that's good. I actually honestly don't care if conjurers do more damage than us I'm more concerned with being even with classes meant to be Tier 1 DPS because I know it'll be easier for SOE to adjust around us if we're all where we should be in our tier. Out of curiosity, Jay have you parsed any numbers? You are pretty well respected here and rational so I would certainly trust you to parse numbers for us and I'm just curious as to what you're doing compared to other T1 DPS classes you know.

02-23-2006, 07:34 AM	#63
smoody Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 41	Jay42 wrote: First: I'm not going to tell anyone how to post, but I'm going to ask that you keep replies to THIS thread in the constructive and mature category. Go ahead and vent, rage, throw the tantrum if you need to - there are PLENTY of threads for that already. I'd like this one to be informative and help us answer some questions. Please respect that. Second: I know we're all seeing drastically reduced numbers, but IMO, comparing your DPS now with your DPS last week is just plain folly. Of course it's going to be much, much lower. We knew that. We were overpowered, now we're not. You can disagree all you want with how SOE accomplished "fixing" us, but just accept that the DPS we were doing is thing of the past. If you needed to be top dog in every group or raid to enjoy your toon, I'm sorry, but you probably should look elsewhere. I hear Baskin-Robbins is offering a great deal on summoners this month. We need to determine if the pendulum swung too far in reducing our DPS, and if it did, we need to figure out how to restore it to the level where we belong. I realize some of these questions will take more time testing and parsing to really answer, and that's fine. No hurry here. I'm looking for informative feedback derived from direct, firsthand experience. I'm also looking for information across levels and equipment - not just the end-game crowd. 1. Can you still fill the DPS role adequately in groups? 2. What skills, if any, were "broken" in the patch? 3. Are you able to solo effectively? 4. If applicable: do you bring enough to the raid table to be a worthwhile contributor? Hoping that at least some of you can be level-headed enough to provide helpful information so we can identify the biggest problem areas. I know everyone is freaking out right now, that's fine, I'm not happy myself - and I encourage you to work out that frustration and anger in whatever way you see fit - but please don't go off on flame-fests and rants here; plenty of other threads for that. Thanks for your consideration and assistance. 1. I haven't been able to so far. 2. Haven't found any "broken" but several are modified in wrong way. 3. Not really. The highest level I have been successful with is a level 58. 4. Not sure. It would be interesting to see. However the group DPS is down so far, it isn't looking good. Fredethel Edit: Just for reference, I have all Adept III or Master's with a mix of Fabled and Legendary gear. Message Edited by smoody on 02-22-200606:37 PM __________________ 62 Ranger / 64 Provisioner - Nektulos (Vengeance) 65 Alchemist 61 Carpenter

02-23-2006, 08:58 AM	#67
smoody Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 41	Let's be clear about something. You aren't supposed to be able to solo heroic mobs. Posting results of solo encounters against heroic mobs isn't going to get dev attention. They have clearly stated that those mobs are intended for groups. However, solo mobs with a single up arrow are easy pickings for many of our scout friends, and they often times hand us our rear end on a platter. We have very little melee skills and they are on long refresh timers, no point blank bow skills, and no way to keep the mob off of us. The issue could be fixed easily in any number of ways. SOE just has to provide us the capability. It is frustrating to see another scout, a cleric, a mage and a tank easily kill a mob which is a race with the random number generator for me to kill. These are solo con mobs, not heroics. We were getting away with fighting these mobs prior to LU20 since we were doing such insane DPS we could kill them before they got to us. However, now we are back at a point where we are seeing the problems with the ranger class which have existed since LU13. Rangers, let's post results and feedback that will net us some results. I want the devs to take a hard look at the viability of this class post LU20. Posting results regarding fights against heroic mobs won't get us those results.1. We need an effective way to solo. Whether that is increasing our melee arts, decreasing timers or providing us with a real root of some sort.2. We need some relief from the costs of arrows. I suggest removing arrow levels completely. Or provide an infinite quiver. I'll pay 5p for one of those. 3. We need to provide a reason to exist in a group. I am Ok with the being DPS only, but as such, we should be at or near the top of the DPS charts. This doesn't mean we should be twice that of an assasin or any other scout class. I am simply saying we should be Tier 1. Currently we appear to be solidly in T2 behind swashbucklers and brigands. Fredethel __________________ 62 Ranger / 64 Provisioner - Nektulos (Vengeance) 65 Alchemist 61 Carpenter

02-23-2006, 10:01 AM	#69
S'ilk Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 10	Well I am a long time lurker here always found a lot of good info on the ranger forums. I have been playing my ranger since Nov 2004 so I was around before LU13. I understand the wanting to bring our DPS in line with other "tier 1" DPS classes but what I do not understand is this. If we are doing the same DPS in a grp or raid why have the ranger, what do we bring to the table? Looking at it that way if I was not leading the DPS numbers in my raids I was not doing my job. If we are doing the same DPS as other classes then why take a class with 0 utility over one that does equal DPS and has grp utility. Kasmir 60 Ranger Blackburrow __________________

02-23-2006, 02:45 PM	#71
Nimana Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	I'm NOT saying that rangers are fine soloing in KoS. I have not tried it yet, so I really don't have a clue. I DO believe those that say that they are having a hard time post LU20. And I sympathize with you all! I think SOE has hit rangers too hard with the nerf bat. I think these last adjustments prove that PvP WILL affect all players. I don't like it. Power consumption suddenly has become an issue, casting times are increased, some CAs have become less effective, poison procs have been severely reduced, mobs' run speed increased. All this at ONCE! Making such a huge change to one class' abilities surely will cause frustration! I too would like to see our class fixed, I don't want to have to melee mobs. I'd give away my chain any day for some leather and better dps. (My wood elf ranger does look kind of androgyne anyway, it would only be befitting if he wore leather ) I hope your problems will get fixed soon Kanna. All rangers having bought the expansion should be enjoying its content now, not venting their frustrations on the class board. But attacking other posters' integrity is not the way to go... Good luck to you! Message Edited by Nimanael on 02-23-200612:58 PM

02-23-2006, 03:16 PM	#72
MrDiz General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 689	58^^^ almost owned me ......... I know nerfs hit hard, and its worse when they do it at the same time as a new expansion because you wanted to focus on the new material, not the new problems with your class. But try to look at it dispassionately for a second.Unless your lvl 65+ already thats still amazing soloing! I cant do that on any of my chars... maybe my illusionist can handle 53^^^, my guardian can parhaps do 50^^^, and my templar just cannot do any heroics.I dont think soloing is a problem for rangers right now. I think the problem is the changes to your class came in one massive hard hitting dose and it has totally thrown you off your rhythm. Basically the screwed up in how they delivered these changes.Im sure if there are any real inbalances between ranger dps and other tier1 dps classes they will be addressed over the next few weeks. Hang in there and know that rangers are still always welcome in my groups. Message Edited by MrDizzi on 02-23-200602:26 AM __________________ Gizzi: Halfling 70 Swashbuckler, Dizzi: Halfling 70 Templar, Vizzi - Halfling 61 Shadow Knight, Bizzi - Halfling 61 Dirge, Qizzi - Halfling 70 Illusionist, Tizzi - Halfling 60 guardian ( Peek inside Dizzi's Home )

02-23-2006, 07:12 AM	#61
Yrield General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 267	60 ranger with no CAs under Adept3, using Dark fury long bow (t6 fabled) and poison1. Can you still fill the DPS role adequately in groups?Sure... if a Monk/bruiser/Zerker/Bards can be dps in group... we can 2. What skills, if any, were "broken" in the patch?SoA is acting weird, all others CAs are "broken" if we are supposed to be T1 dps 3. Are you able to solo effectively? No, i can do a nice solo round every 15min or so (sniper shot up), correct round every 2min or so (Stealthy fire and trap up) other than that... my solo game is Sit and Wait 4. If applicable: do you bring enough to the raid table to be a worthwhile contributor?No periodWe need to be fixed ASAP, right now we are out of the loop Message Edited by Yrieldom on 02-22-200609:16 PM

02-23-2006, 07:23 AM	#62
Nimana Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	Now why should I lie? Not only am I soloing just fine, others are too. Check out what Sphiriah (lvl 50), DbMorland (lvl 55), Zeijandi (lvl 55) and others are reporting. Tobann (lvl 55) claims to be able to kill white one arrows up and yellow conned mobs (no arrows). Bongotez (lvl 44 (?)) has posted pictures and a parse of himself killing a yellow conned mob WITHOUT EVEN USING POISON. Rangers are not having (and should not have) problems with soloing in PF or SS. There may be difficulties for those trying to solo in KoS though. That does not however, seem to be a problem for rangers exclusively... Devs will be testing our claims for themselves, and lying about our situation will only lead to a loss of both credibility and sympathy! Let's work together to make our class both fun and wanted1 Message Edited by Nimanael on 02-22-200606:29 PM Message Edited by Nimanael on 02-22-200606:34 PM Message Edited by Nimanael on 02-23-200612:55 PM

02-23-2006, 08:08 AM	#64
rcknchr General Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 45	Im a 38 level Ranger with above average gear most of my armor and all 3 weapons (pristine imbued oak longbow, polished granite tomahawk, and a pristine imbued feysteel sai) are Legendary. All of my bow CA are AD3 and the 4 melee CA are AD1. Went to Nek Castle today and pull a 31^^^ hellhound (green con) and barely beat him. I had 6% health left. If my tomahawk would not have procced i would have died. So then I pull 2 31^^ gargoyles. I took the 1st one down but the 2nd one killed me and it was still at 60% health.Our soloing has become nonexistant and boring when you do try. Our bow CA seem weak too because at best youre only gonna get 2 off before they are in your face and we just dont have the melee CA to take them. I think our dps should have been brought down, but they should not have made the class worthless by dropping our dps as much as they did. I dont see us as being picked first over the other scout classes because they have group utility spells, but i think we will still get groups when people are just looking for any class to fill a spot. I dont raid so cant say about the raiding end of the game. It is dissappointing that after think around 7 years (only played for 4 not exactly sure how long its been out) of EQ1 and 2 years of EQ2 SoE still cant seem to find a happy medium for the Ranger class. Hopefully since they didnt listen before when this was in beta maybe they will start listening to what their fanbase and customers are saying and try and make it right. I was also using vendor bought posion with a medium damage on impact and medium damage dot. Think somewhere around 65 on impact and 85 every so many seconds. Message Edited by rcknchr74 on 02-22-200607:11 PM

02-23-2006, 08:36 AM	#65
Nimana Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	Message Edited by Nimanael on 02-23-200612:55 PM

02-23-2006, 08:58 AM	#66
Guy De Alsace Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: England Posts: 1,902	Level 60 Ranger here. Just like to say that I got Scalesplitter in Temple of Scale (legendary Katana) and use the fairly cheap Aegis of Scorn now instead of two weapons. It seems to help me solo a lot. I go offensive stance in the initial pull with a bow and switch to defensive in melee. Use one store bought damage poison which I can remember the name of.Killed a named lvl 58^ and yellow conned grp (lvl 61 one downs) fairly easily in KoS. The group I was in in Temple of Scale didnt complain about my dps at all but I think the wizard was suprised she kept getting aggro. I rarely got aggro pre-LU20 anyway due to using Improved Surveil and lots of aggro debuffs.We're definitely missing something. I reckon our damage output is a shade too low now for our pure dps role. I dont think the devs thought about the fact that Rangers have nothing else whatsoever to bring to a group except dps. We do need to be just slightly over the wizzies/warlocks to compensate for our lack of utility.At the moment the class is broken by this change but not in a catastrophic way. KoS simply highlights the shortcomings due to its design and population (fairly small areas, lots of one-up mobs who are all aggro)Our lvl 1 AA needs looking at too. At the moment its completely worthless.

02-23-2006, 09:22 AM	#68
Nimana Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	Message Edited by Nimanael on 02-23-200612:56 PM

02-23-2006, 10:22 AM	#70
KannaWhoopass Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 399	This is some of my gear Boots of Many Shadows Coif of Many Shadows Chestguard of Swirling Energy Flame Etched Gloves Gem Encrusted Bracelet of the Sun Mantle of Many Shadows Earthen Band Foreman's Shank sabre from the godking also my vanadium str ring vanadium wrist spiregaze neck im lvl 60 with all attack spells at Master 1 or 2 i die to lvl 58^ i die to lvl 60 this is why i dont believe you .... Think of the time i spent getting this gear I know how to use my class to be fair perhaps the old zones are easy ....KOS is a POS for rangers Message Edited by KannaWhoopass on 02-22-200609:23 PM

02-23-2006, 03:18 PM	#73
Loktha Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 6	I started my ranger after the lu20 patch and therefore have no experience with the ranger pre-lu20(I wanted to try something else than the 23 pally i have atm). I am currently at level 8 and still on the starting island. I do not have any problems soloing the white or blue conned mobs there. But i must add here that i almost cannot use my ranged ablilities since i only have 2. I often can use only one and then the mob is already at my doorstep so i have to revert to meleeing. Now dont get me wrong i dont have a problem with meleeing otherwise i wouldnt have started a pally, but Rangers dont get called Rangers for nothing. Furthermore i am not an experienced ranger so maybe i still have to get some experience at fighting on a distance . Anyway what i want to say is, i dont feel like playing a ranged class. I feel more like playing a melee class with some ranged abilities. I dont know if that changes at later levels... i hope so. Otherwise "Ranger" is not the correct name for this class.

02-23-2006, 04:15 PM	#74
Cron General Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 170	I'm getting the strange feeling that this update is a lot like LU 13. It seems to me that some levels are having a harder time with the changes than others. Maybe it's my gear that's making it easier for me to adjust, but to be quite honest, I'm not having that much of an issue with the changes. As it were, if it weren't for the fact that I'm parsing the battles, I don't feel like I've lost a whole lot (in soloability). I still haven't really grouped yet (duoed). I went into KoS again last night and in both TT and Barren Sky, I was able to take solo mobs 5 levels above me. I took out multiple mobs in the same way I use to. I did not use any stun poison last night. Adeste and Glox.Rather than call everyone liars or assume people are saying YOU can't play effectively, why don't we just stop and see why you might be having problems. This is what we did for LU13 and it seems to me a lot of Rangers were helped by that.You will recall that there were a number of people that couldn't kill anything after 13. There were an equal amount of people that felt we were gods (we were). It was just such a huge change on the player that it threw some people off. Maybe that's what is going on here. I don't know.Some things I've noticed and it probably has been discussed but I'm brain dead this morning. Cheap shot is a 6 second stun and no longer upgradeable. It says mine is a level 4 but doesn't show that I had it at Adept 1. I can now get two shots in while they are stunned.Deabilitating Arrow is no longer able to be fired on the run. Cull (backshot) is and so is Storm of Arrows.Having said all this, I do think we were put below the classes we are suppose to be equal with. I don't have hard numbers yet, but I'm seeing casters in KoS do what they've always done. Root, nuke, rinse. And they are doing it far better than I am. I really would like to get with some Rangers on Butcherblock (in the realm of level 60 for comparisions) and start seeing the differences. Kae, Tek, anyone? __________________

02-23-2006, 04:43 PM	#75
MrDiz General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 689	Yeah, remember lu13/dof, mitigation tanks were seriously outclassed by the avoidance tanks. Didnt take more than a few weeks for lu14 to hit and the situation to right itself. Ever 3 or 4 more updates the situation was slowly balanced until we have a sort of equilibrium amongst tanks. Give it time and im sure this equilibrium between dps will be found again.In the meantime, just know that many of us know how blasted annoying such major turn arounds are and feel for you guys. __________________ Gizzi: Halfling 70 Swashbuckler, Dizzi: Halfling 70 Templar, Vizzi - Halfling 61 Shadow Knight, Bizzi - Halfling 61 Dirge, Qizzi - Halfling 70 Illusionist, Tizzi - Halfling 60 guardian ( Peek inside Dizzi's Home )

02-23-2006, 06:00 PM	#76
BedlamX Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 81	MrDizzi wrote: 58^^^ almost owned me ......... I know nerfs hit hard, and its worse when they do it at the same time as a new expansion because you wanted to focus on the new material, not the new problems with your class. But try to look at it dispassionately for a second.Unless your lvl 65+ already thats still amazing soloing! I cant do that on any of my chars... maybe my illusionist can handle 53^^^, my guardian can parhaps do 50^^^, and my templar just cannot do any heroics.I dont think soloing is a problem for rangers right now. I think the problem is the changes to your class came in one massive hard hitting dose and it has totally thrown you off your rhythm. Basically the screwed up in how they delivered these changes.Im sure if there are any real inbalances between ranger dps and other tier1 dps classes they will be addressed over the next few weeks. Hang in there and know that rangers are still always welcome in my groups. Message Edited by MrDizzi on 02-23-200602:26 AM Granted this is an open forum but why is it that other classes feel the need to add thier input to a thread that is asking Rangers if they feel they can do thier job. you stated that you feel that soloing is a not problem for rangers I see by your sig that you dont have a ranger so how can you sir comment on what you know nothing about.There are plenty of other threads in this forum that you can make those statements in This thread was for Rangers the OP wasnt asking how other classes feel we can do our job.BedlamX

02-23-2006, 06:53 PM	#77
MrDiz General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 689	BedlamX wrote: Granted this is an open forum but why is it that other classes feel the need to add thier input to a thread that is asking Rangers if they feel they can do thier job. To show support for you. To tell you it isnt all bad and that we still want you in our groups. To tell you when I need DPS ill still take rangers without hesitation. Come on bud, if there is an inbalance with ranger DPS it will be spotted within days and im sure it will be fixed. We all want our raid rangers putting out the DPS you stated that you feel that soloing is a not problem for rangers I see by your sig that you dont have a ranger so how can you sir comment on what you know nothing about. I know I cant solo heroics on my templar. Most of us still cant solo the things that guy I replied to said he can "barely" solo. Just giving him some perspective to help ease the transition. It could be worse, altho I realise that may be little comfort. This thread was for Rangers the OP wasnt asking how other classes feel we can do our job. Ok, I didnt mean to offend. So ill leave.If it helps I think doing this sort of 'fix' at the same time as releasing an expansion is such a dumb idea of Sonys, because it now ruins the expansion for you, and I know exactly how that feels I assure you Message Edited by MrDizzi on 02-23-200605:54 AM __________________ Gizzi: Halfling 70 Swashbuckler, Dizzi: Halfling 70 Templar, Vizzi - Halfling 61 Shadow Knight, Bizzi - Halfling 61 Dirge, Qizzi - Halfling 70 Illusionist, Tizzi - Halfling 60 guardian ( Peek inside Dizzi's Home )

02-23-2006, 07:29 PM	#78
BedlamX Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 81	MrDizzi wrote: BedlamX wrote: Granted this is an open forum but why is it that other classes feel the need to add thier input to a thread that is asking Rangers if they feel they can do thier job. To show support for you. To tell you it isnt all bad and that we still want you in our groups. To tell you when I need DPS ill still take rangers without hesitation. Come on bud, if there is an inbalance with ranger DPS it will be spotted within days and im sure it will be fixed. We all want our raid rangers putting out the DPS The problem I have here is not with you personally, support os welcomed however it is with the fact that you and others dont feel that it "isnt all bad". I must tell you if you want DPS the ranger is not the answer anymore The current state of affairs would indicate that the ranger is no longer a dps class. This has been well documented with the testing going on and the numbers being posted. you stated that you feel that soloing is a not problem for rangers I see by your sig that you dont have a ranger so how can you sir comment on what you know nothing about. I know I cant solo heroics on my templar. Most of us still cant solo the things that guy I replied to said he can "barely" solo. Just giving him some perspective to help ease the transition. It could be worse, altho I realise that may be little comfort.I am not sure how things could be worse. Not to nickpic but templars are healers were you ever meant to solo I dont know much about your class. Comparing the two classes on a soloing is crazy. If anything we should be compared to the warlock or wizzy before and after. This thread was for Rangers the OP wasnt asking how other classes feel we can do our job. Ok, I didnt mean to offend. So ill leave.You didnt offend me. I just want to point out that this is not the thread to be posting your opinions or reactions to other posts on. Unless you have put the time and energy into a ranger to see it ripped out from under you. I dont think you could understand. If it helps I think doing this sort of 'fix' at the same time as releasing an expansion is such a dumb idea of Sonys, because it now ruins the expansion for you, and I know exactly how that feels I assure you This one I agree with you on. IMHO we wernt broke post LU13 we were givin abilities to bring us right where we belong. It has been said before by others Rangers have but 1 job and that is to kill and kill quick. Everything else we do can be accomplished by other classes. I stand by this statement ....No one pre LU20 had a problem with us doing massive DMG when it benefited them either in an instance or group or raid just as long as the masters and fables kept droping. I have yet to figure out SOE's master plan someday I might until then I wish all of the rangers good hunting. Message Edited by MrDizzi on 02-23-200605:54 AM BedlamX

02-23-2006, 07:43 PM	#79
Mary the Prophetess Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,472	MrDizzi: I, for one, appreciate your interest, and your constructive comments. It is enlightening to me to hear the views of non-Rangers, and to get a more informed picture of the difficulties other classes face vis-a-vie Rangers. Thank-you for participating, and, (at least from MY perspective), I hope you will not be put off and continue to be an active part of this discussion. I am very encouraged that Blackguard will be looking closely at each tier of Rangers (using non-Legendary/Fabled gear) to evaluate just how these changes effect Rangers [AT ALL LEVELS AND PLAY STYLES]. I am now a bit more confident that at least some of the issues I am concerned about (ie: soloing at mid levels with medicore equipment), will be examined, and (hopefully), corrected over the next several patches.

02-23-2006, 07:50 PM	#80
Shaulin Dolamite Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 158	I know its only been a few days but it would seem to me that sony should peek in on this thread with an "we are here reading" post. This thread has been constructive and quite flame free from what I have read. If this gets us heard this type of constructive posting then SOE should support it. I know "we are here" isnt much but it helps to keep it possitive and constructive. Any type of forward progress at this point is leaps and bounds imho.

02-23-2006, 08:15 PM	#81
physics20 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3	Ok I finally got a chance to test out my character and this is what I noticed. First of all, I did not go to KoS (I'm only 56) so instead I went to SS and also tried out the Tears instances in Maj'Dul. In all the cases, I was using only one poison (the cheap vendor bought poison) because I'm cheap. In SS, I had no problem whatsoever killing giants (50^^^) and gnolls (51-52^^). It took a little longer than before but I still used the same pre-LU20 strategy I had: snare and kite.I did however notice a big change in the Tears instances zones in Maj'Dul. First of all, correct me if I am wrong, but it appears that with the KoS expansion they added a few new Tears quests: in this case, I was asked to go into a house and evict the residents, who were all frogloks. In all my time of doing Tears quests, I had never been given one where the Maj'Dul residents were frogloks. Perhaps I was just incredibly unlucky, but these frogs were frickin' tough...at least alot more than the normal residents. I think they were monks or something by the attacks they were doing, and they parried about half of my bow attacks (all my CAs are Adept I or better with most being Adept III and the one M2 Stealthy Fire). Also, they seemed to break my Thorny Trap very easily. So the first few times trying this zone, I had to flee because I was getting owned. Finally, I changed my strategy a bit, and ran the frogs around in a circle and ranged autoattacked them to death, only using one CA on the pull. Using my ranged autoattack my poison procc'ed nicely and they dropped. Not too fun though...Though I haven't been to KoS yet, I was wondering if these parry issues, etc were being experienced in these new zones as well. If these frogloks were added with KoS then maybe all the KoS mobs are parrying or dodging melee/bow attacks at an asanine rate, which might explain why some people have observed spellcasters having an easier time with them. If that's the case, it might not just be rangers having problems, and perhaps it will be changed soon. Just a thought. Also, up until this point, I have never been a proponent of allowing us to use our ranged CA's on the run. While some people thought this made sense, I never thought it was too realistic (realism in EQ2? gasp). I always thought ranged CA's were special attacks that required concentration and precision, and running around while doing them didn't make much sense. Having said that, after the changes, I would like to see a few more of our CA's made so we can move and shoot. The reason being that since our dps has been lowered by a sizeable amount, and many tougher mobs are resistant to our cheap shot, we are having to melee more than we used to in order to solo (or at least I have been). This kind of goes against the spirit of my class, imo, and I'd like to see us still be able to solo while using most of our ranged CA's. Just a suggestion.-Feynman

02-23-2006, 08:16 PM	#82
TaleraRis Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 2,083	Okay I got in a little playtime last night, so I can comment on #3 I can still solo effectively at level 43. I was finishing up some quests and I took down a group of 3 level 40 2 arrow down mobs. I went to Feerott and was fighting groups of 2 and 3 2 and 1 arrow down level 40 mobs. These are all blue groups to me. However, non-arrow mobs may have gotten a bit of a beef up. Prior to LU20, I was taking no arrow blue mobs with relative ease. One hit with Triple Fire or Hidden Fire and they were down to yellow. I killed some no arrow green toilers last night in Zek and they weren't quite down to yellow, but I had no problems soloing them. I took out the Left Hand of Thule, level 42 1 arrow up rather easily, although I had to run from his 3 arrow down blue buddies. But I went back and killed them with no issues. So, I say I can still solo rather well. I did have the parser running and I capped out at about 200 DPS, but I don't have any records from before. From feel, however, I don't seem to be taking any longer to kill mobs I was killing before. __________________ Gwyneth Lecarde 90 Warty Arrow Flinger 90 Sword Shiner Najena Morgasand Ka'Bael 54 Roswellian Mind Scrambler 87 Shield Polisher Najena

02-23-2006, 08:20 PM	#83
RustyB Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 257	I dunno guys.... from what I've read and seen you guys were doing WAY too much dps for your class and the thing is you all knew it! was grouped with a ranger last night and he was still at teh top of the dps chart so basicly you guys went from outrageous dps to acceptable dps. as for not being able to solo solo mobs now that's just sad =( __________________ Yerni Smith

02-23-2006, 08:24 PM	#84
TaleraRis Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 2,083	For one, most statements I've seen from devs regarding rangers had to have been done comparing fully buffed raiding rangers. There's no way a solo ranger could get 4k DPS. So they don't seem to have looked across the board there, looking only at the very top and not surveying a variety of level, gear and spell ranges. For two, many here have said this sort of damage is insane. We know rangers were overpowered. What we're debating is if these changes were excessive, and I think they were. __________________ Gwyneth Lecarde 90 Warty Arrow Flinger 90 Sword Shiner Najena Morgasand Ka'Bael 54 Roswellian Mind Scrambler 87 Shield Polisher Najena

02-23-2006, 08:30 PM	#85
nimbus2kgold Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 100	Ok.. killed a few more mobs and parsed some more situations. It boils down to solo=we suck, grouped=not where we should be, but not as bad as I thought. Took on some average solo blue mobs (think it was 57, im 60) and parsed them. DPS ranged from 125-200 depending. Unacceptable in my book. Groups were a little better, but not by alot. It was very eratic as well. It ranged from 200-450 ( and the 450 was very very rare... maybe twice in the 2 hours of non-stop grind) Seemed to hover right around 300 for most of the night. This was using Adestes and either Glox or Shissar, and if you want to see my gear http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=266227104 I also have all masters or Ad3's. In comparison, the Fury was DPSing at about 450-500 consistantly ( something very wrong when the healer out DPS's the DPS ) and the conjurer was right about 600. (please dont read in that I want those guys nerfed.. I dont! I just want myself improved). I will say, the Wizzy's need some love too, because he was right at 300 with me. __________________

02-23-2006, 09:47 PM	#86
A Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 165	I would agree with the above statement. Solo is much harder but group isn't really that bad. We don't really have to hold up on damage now and there are still key skills that provide very consistent dps in group. One of them is Stream of Arrows which roughly provides 450+ dps for 30 seconds every minute, which somehow makes me question by the way how some people are parsing less than 200 dps as if you only used StoA and did nothing while it is down , on a long parse you should still be above 200 dps

02-23-2006, 10:01 PM	#87
Nimana Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	physics2000 wrote:Ok I finally got a chance to test out my character and this is what I noticed. First of all, I did not go to KoS (I'm only 56) so instead I went to SS and also tried out the Tears instances in Maj'Dul. In all the cases, I was using only one poison (the cheap vendor bought poison) because I'm cheap. In SS, I had no problem whatsoever killing giants (50^^^) and gnolls (51-52^^). It took a little longer than before but I still used the same pre-LU20 strategy I had: snare and kite.I did however notice a big change in the Tears instances zones in Maj'Dul. I too feel that I can solo decently when given the option to kite and snare. The question is whether we're able to perform well when fighting in close quarters or against mutli-mob encounters. Up to level 50 rangers only have 1 AoE attack. This attack requires stealth. Our melee abilities are limited, and partly positional, making life hard for rangers at times. Hopefully these issues will be addressed soon!

02-24-2006, 12:14 AM	#88
Jay General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,137	I was told last night, rather urgently (in tells), that this thread was getting ugly and that it needed to be rectified. Reading these posts I'm not seeing much flaming or anything, besides accusations of lying and other minor ridiculousness. If someone doesn't believe you, let them; it's their own misery they seek to perpetuate. You know what you did, you know what you're capable of, and if you're using that experience to help other ppl, you're doing the right thing IMESFHO. Just ignore people who you can't reason with after one or two attempts. This is a major adjustment for us. The biggest one in our lives as EQ2 rangers. I don't think it's hopeless, but I do sometimes feel that way. I know I need to relearn my game, discard all my old routines, and start from the ground up. I can't do half the damage I used to, and doing all that damage enabled me to slack on the basics of soloing as a scout class. If I got jumped by a blue ^ mob, I just laughed, stunned it, then vaporized it with two ranged CAs. I can't do that anymore; I'm stuck in melee, cycling HOs, using Honed Reflexes and other buffs to try and max my DPS. I need to relearn those basics. Got about as discouraged as I can get last night when I'd get caught unawares and my monk partner wasn't immediately nearby to pull the mob off me. As I said to her, "I feel like I can't let go of Mommy's hand now." I used to walk around fearless - totally confident that just about anything with the temerity to start a fight with me would quickly regret it. Now, I enter stealth as soon as I zone in. I stay invisible so I don't aggro any wanderers or sneaky solo mobs. I re-stealth as soon as we finish fighting, b/c if I blunder into something and draw aggro, I'm going to lose a significant amount of health fighting it off on my own. Hmmm...do I have a point? Probably not - I rarely do - but I'm coming to terms with this being a long, painful adjustment. I'm not adjusted yet, but I'm beginning to see that this will require that reacclimation. I'm getting past the anger that we're being forced to re-learn our class (again). We can still get by. I hope it gets back to being enough fun that I continue to enjoy the game. I hope Sony fixes us up a bit so we're not dealing with many factors limiting our effectiveness. I hope we aren't left behind and forgotten. But this is to some degree in our hands, to continue to collect information, raise awareness, and advocate for change. __________________

02-24-2006, 09:59 AM	#89
dbmoreland Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 343	Jay you hit the nail right on the head, dead on. Before LU20 we could get sloppy and we did. We walked around frearless knowing that any mob designed for an individual was toast in 30 seconds or less, many times dead with but a single bowshot. So we got sloppy, we stopped being a Ranger. We stopped "hunting". We just charged in and let the arrows fly and the mobs dropped. Now it is payback time. We have to relearn how to be a Ranger, how to be a hunter, how to use ALL of our CAs to there maximum effectiveness. For those like me that enjoy a challenge this is going to be a great fun time. Mobs will again fear us when we sneak up on the ONE mob we want, set our trap, let the arrows fly from our bow, draw the mob into our lair and proceed to beat the life out of him, just the way a true hunter should.Looking forward to the fun...

02-24-2006, 12:37 PM	#90
Runewind Fansite Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 341	Things are starting to sound more positive today. maybe we aren't as bad as we thought. I haven't been on the last couple days (I went on once on tuesday and then got off) I've been a little too bummed out to actually try to get on and do anything. Some people have been reporting that there may have been some kind of stealth-fix this morning because they seem to be doing better today. Not sure about that. The jury is still out apparantly. I do hope things get better but someone reported doing about the same as a wizard and that's good. I actually honestly don't care if conjurers do more damage than us I'm more concerned with being even with classes meant to be Tier 1 DPS because I know it'll be easier for SOE to adjust around us if we're all where we should be in our tier. Out of curiosity, Jay have you parsed any numbers? You are pretty well respected here and rational so I would certainly trust you to parse numbers for us and I'm just curious as to what you're doing compared to other T1 DPS classes you know. __________________