Would love to be a Ranger... but

[Arcann]

I am a Wood Elf Scout and I was born to be a Ranger.  However, I have been reading all of the Forums and it seems to me that there are so many shortcomings to being a Ranger that it seems more trouble than it is worth.

 

From what I have read (and that is my only info source to date) Rangers focus highly on using bows.  They can do high damage with bows, but still not as high as Assassins.  Bows, as with any ranged offense in EQII, are only useful until the MOB jumps on you, and ALL Mobs do jump on you.... fast!  So, as a Range my best weapon is only useful for 1-3 attacks before the Mobs is down my throat.  On top of that, in order to USE my bow I have to be constantly re-supplying my arrows.

 

As a contrast, an Assassion does MORE damage, with an attack type that is not negated after 1 or 2 attacks due to close range AND they do not have to re-supply ammo every day in order to continue hitting.

 

Is it just me or does it sound like being a Ranger comes with a lot of High Maintenance for no major pay-off?  Other than, "it's cool to be a Ranger" or "doncha wanna be good", why would I choose Ranger instead of turning Evil and hitting the Assassion trail?

 

HOPING I am missing some valid points!

 

Thanks.

[Tsoth]

Yep, pretty much how I feel. I would hope that some day that we would get point-blank range ability... it would make this all worth it.

[ElKozmo]

Hey, some people just don't have what it takes to be a ranger ;p (kidding)But at level 21 we get makeshift arrow, which gives you 10 arrows. Now the recharge time is rather long, but nothing too long, And the arrows are not the best, but I did pull a personal best yesterday with them and hit for 270 at lvl 22.Also at 22 I focus more on stealth based attacks, not so much arrows. I am only lvl 22 though, so arrows may be more of a factor as we keep lvling, but so far its pretty cool.

[Pil]

Rangers really don't start to come into their own until the upper 20's when you have a set of bow-specific tools and group friendly skills that set you apart from others.

 

Evac is a big plus for us (yeah I know there are a couple of others that get it)

Trick Shot can be a great pulling tool, if you settle it with the group, and if nothing else you can use it to really cememt the aggro on the tank as the fight starts.

Despite the initial impressions, we actually do really good DPS.  Others can drop bigger bombs, but over the length of a whole fight we really hold our own.

We have a lot of flexibility to fight as we please (either bow or meelee)

 

Just my take.  Every class has their plusses and minusses, but make sure you throroughly understand them before renderring judgement.

[Axxon]

Bottom line:  play what you think you will enjoy.  Forums are always full of people whining and complaining (present company excluded of course) about their class (ANY class and EVERY class) so take it all with a grain of salt. 

[Arcann]

I KNOW I should play what I will really enjoy, and that is why I am considering a Ranger.  However, it seems to me to be a HUGE downfall that I have to PAY for arrows to get a similar or less effective attack result than other similar classes.  You would think with SOEs efforts towards balancing all the classes that a requirement to constantly replenish an arrow supply would be balanced with either the highest DPS or some ability to make money faster or easier than other classes.  As I see it, the need for arrows to do their primary functions unbalances Rangers with other classes.

 

My 2c.

[Axxon]

You won't have to buy them after level 21 unless you want to.  Up until that point, I bought iron arrows fairly cheaply in Willow Wood.  You "have to" buy poisons too, but then again so do assassins.   Good luck with the decision.

[Smoker]

If buying arrows is your biggest concern, take heart, cause like someone said earlier, you get the makeshift arrows skill around lvl 21.  So, to replenish your arrow supply all you have to do is use this skill every time it recharges during down time (it even works in your inn room) and you get more arrows.  If you upgrade this skill you get more arrows with each use (app1 - 10, app2 -15, etc).  Yes it does have a longish recharge time but I've found that it's no problem to build up a supply of stacks then maintain them.

 

Also, in a group, you're not limited to just the beginning attacks.  While the mob is focused on the tank you can always pull back a bit while your stealth attacks recharge and fling a few more ranged attacks into the fray, then move back in for more stealth attacks.  Also there's a spot you can stand that allows both ranged and melee attacks if you can find it.  A bit tricky in the heat of things.

 

 

[Anka]

Why be a ranger?

 

Yes, its true that rangers are more dependant on the bow than assassins.  The key word is *more* as rangers get a lot of melee attacks when you are towards your upper 20s.  Here are a few points you need to keep in mind if you are debating a ranger or assassin:

 

1) Ranged attacks are going to be very important to the high end content rather than melee attacks.  Why?  AoE's.  From all of the EQ games the high end will have tons of mobs with huge AoE's.  As a ranger just find max range and pop arrows.  You will be an asset to raid group as you will still do damage but not get hurt.

 

1a) Some high end mobs will be immune to spells (from historical evidence) so a melee that can do long range attacks will be vital.

 

2) Rangers still do great melee damage.  I have seen my dps against casters, swashbucklers, etc and I am at the top of the damage list on 50% of the battle (first out of 6 members).  The other times I am 2 or 3 if I miss a nice combo.

 

What you need to keep in mind is that all classes can do great damage.  For a ranger you just need to find your special combo.  For instance, I will use a sneak attack, followed by a pounce (STOP ATTACK as the attack spools) and then follow it with a shadow lunge, or a Spring, or a Shadowflame (I have the upgrade to this spell but I forgot the name) or a Raven's Embers.  This set of combo moves will generate tons of damage.

 

Also, someone pointed out the Makeshift arrow spells.  If you get the App III spells you get 20 Carbonite makeshift arrows per cast.  If you get Rip Adept 1 you will have a Feysteel arrow returned to your inventory -- no matter what arrow you shot at the mob.   There are tons of ways of getting around stuff, just learn your character.

 

Hope  I clarified a few things.  Ask if you need anything else answered.

 

 

[Jinsou]

Here are my findings as of level 33:Maybe it's just because I try to hard (and usually blow my POW really fast as a result) or it's just the lazy groups I join, but the only classes than can outdamage me are mages... I have yet to be outdamaged by a same level scout of any class. If I just use my melee attacks and don't whip out my bow at all I can match the DPS of any rogue without even trying. When I pull back and go balls out with my bow, I easily beat any same level assassin I've gone up against so far.This is all grouped of course. The initial poster seemed worried about ranged attacks only being good for 2 or 3 hits. Were you planning on soloing to 50?! Because I wouldn't recommend that for anyone. Rangers belong in groups, and I personally never have trouble finding one that would love to use my damage output.Also as said, Makeshift Arrows has completely eliminated the need for me to buy arrows. I only have it at app3 and I get 20 arrows a use. I have 8 stacks that I have stocked up and have yet to fall below 7 stacks on-hand unless I'm exping for a LONG time, and then it's just a matter of summoning more during your down time. There's also Rip at level 30-something that gives you an arrow every time you use it. I usually have 2 stacks of arrows from that at the end of every exp group, but I usually just sell those to a vendor some some spare change, as I never run out of makeshift arrows... Before 21 you won't be using your bow enough to justify spending rediculous amounts of money on arrows anyways.So in other words, no. I'm not seeing any of your downsides to playing the ranger class. If I had to gripe about anything, it's that sometimes tank positioning or being in a dungeon doesn't allow you the best opportunity to get back to work your bow magic, but as I said before, even just meleeing with my stealth stabs I do comparable DPS to any other scout I've ever grouped with...

[Sotaudi]

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Arcannis wrote:

I am a Wood Elf Scout and I was born to be a Ranger.  However, I have been reading all of the Forums and it seems to me that there are so many shortcomings to being a Ranger that it seems more trouble than it is worth.

 

From what I have read (and that is my only info source to date) Rangers focus highly on using bows.  They can do high damage with bows, but still not as high as Assassins.  Bows, as with any ranged offense in EQII, are only useful until the MOB jumps on you, and ALL Mobs do jump on you.... fast!  So, as a Range my best weapon is only useful for 1-3 attacks before the Mobs is down my throat.  On top of that, in order to USE my bow I have to be constantly re-supplying my arrows.

 

As a contrast, an Assassion does MORE damage, with an attack type that is not negated after 1 or 2 attacks due to close range AND they do not have to re-supply ammo every day in order to continue hitting.

 

Is it just me or does it sound like being a Ranger comes with a lot of High Maintenance for no major pay-off?  Other than, "it's cool to be a Ranger" or "doncha wanna be good", why would I choose Ranger instead of turning Evil and hitting the Assassion trail?

 

HOPING I am missing some valid points!

 

Thanks.

---

Makeshift Arrow at Adept 1, by the way, gives you 30 no-trade, carbonite arrows per use.   I have never been without at least one stack of arrows in my inventory since I got it.  At a higher level, you also get Rip which is both an attack that does damage and gives you Feysteel arrows.

Also, you are greatly diminishing the value of Ranged attacks even if you get set upon quickly.  The truth is, if I setup properly and have enough room to maneuver, I can get off at 4 ranged attacks before the target gets to me.  Setup behind the target at near your bow's max range (should use a long bow for the longer range).  Queue Backshot and Wounding Arrow.  When Backshot fires, queue Trick Shot.   Wait for Trick Shot to fire and start backing up while queuing Qpen Shot.  When Open Shot is ready to fire, stop.

If you have the room to do this and everything hits, you will have hit them with five arrows (Open Shot fires two arrows) and a minimum of around 400 points of damage, not including any Poison procs (two hits per proc) which could trigger with each arrow.  This could push the damage up over 600 if somehow every arrow proc'ed a poison.

That is impressive in and of itself, but what is even more important to note is that all of that happens before you get hit even once if you have timed everything properly.  For a blue con target, that can be more than half its hit points before it even gets close to you.  Likewise with a good group that positions themselves properly, they will be standing right where the target stops when your last arrow fires, and a good tank can pull the aggro off you even then, leaving you to get into stealth and hit them with your highest damage melee attacks.

Woundng Arrow not only does damage, but it does a parry and deflection debuff, making the target more susceptible to follow up damage.  And as has been mentioned, Trick Shot transfers the hate to whomever hits it next (in the above scenario, it is just being used to do damage).  So even if you can only use one of these shots, they have a big benefit.  And these are only the arrow shots available through level 26.

Have to start the encounter with melee?  Fine, start in Stealth, use you biggest damage hit.  If you can lose the aggro to someone else, back up a little and switch to bow and run through the same sequence above without even having to back up.  And if you get at just the right range, you can both do melee and ranged without moving.

In a group acting as the tank?  As a Scout, you have no taunt, but you would be amazed at how easy it is to regain aggro by popping a target that turns away from you to hit the healer by hitting them with just Wounding Arrow.  They really hate that shot.

Really, don't sell Ranger short.  The bow is a tremendous asset.

[NebulaCosmosi]

Honestly don't listen to other classes blowing steam about how they out DPS us. Im only 29 so my experince is limited. I have howverr been activley parsing every night for the past 3 levels. I have managed to group with all the other scout classes and from the data I have collected the system is working just as it is intended.

 

Scout subclasses DPS

 

Highest DPS = Rangers / Assasins

 

I have outdamaged Assasins and they have outdamged me. Basicly this pare up comes down to equipment and some other varibles.

 

 

Mid DPS  = Swashies / Brigs

 

 

Now Brigs love to tell you they outdamage us due to Ruse and how it does not register in log parsers etc. Perhaps this is the case I am willing to admit. BUT from the parsing I did with Swashie friends and Brigs in pick up groups we blow them away. So that Ruse would have to be huge to even level the DPS. Again perhaps it is and if that is the case it will be nerfed because the system was intended to be as DPS goes down group utility goes up. Swashies and Brigs brig a good balance to the table though very good damage and very good utility kind of a jack of all trades of the scout class.

 

 

Lowest DPS  =  Dirge / Troubador

 

 

Lowest DPS of the scout classes but probably one of the best additions to any group. My friend is a Troub and let me tell you when he is in the group my DPS skyrockets due to his speed and agi buffs. I would group with a Dirge or a Troub in a second they offer huge utility to the group

 

 

 

Anyway Ranger is awesome you will like it. Yes it costs us to get our max DPS but in all honesty the cost is not game breaking. It should be fixed with an upgrade to Makeshift arrows in my oppinion but only time will tell if SOE agrees with me.

 

[Arcann]

Thanks for the Excellent replies Guys, I'm firmly back on the Ranger Bandwagon!  See you on the Archery range!

 

[hispu]

While it's true that the usefulness of bows are limited solo - you can get about 4 shots off if you're lucky while soloing (3 if you don't ensnare/impede and backpeddle a bit - these are big dmg bow shots by level 30 btw).  While in a group you can use your bow relentlessly.  Rangers are much much more powerful in groups than solo.

 

Assassins are great for groups too - both classes are major dps.  I'm not sure which is stronger solo though, rangers get a few arrow shots off first that Assassins may not - which might make them stronger solo, but I can't say for certain not having played an Assassin.  Solo is probably both classes weak point.

Makeshift Arrows adept 1 will take you thru to level 30 fine.  Around then you'll want to consider switching to feyiron which you can get with the skill Rip (but much less arrows per use than makeshift - only 1 arrow per use).  So it's not really till after 30 that arrows become a problem at all, you probably will need to buy arrows if you use the bow alot from level 35+.  Or you can continue using carbonite and just suffer a bit of dps loss.  At level 32 I'm still using carbonite and just switching to feyiron if it's a tough encounter.  Using Rip I can get about 1 stack of arrows during a night of playing, I tend to use about three stacks in a night. 

 

Keep in mind you don't HAVE to use your bow all the time.  I've parsed logs where I'd run out of arrows and I notice my dps doesn't really drop from lack of bow use.

Doing stalk, shrouded strike, shadowblade line whenever it's available, not to mention bleed, impale, solo HO does about as much damage as when I mix things up with the bow.  Not all of Rangers big hits are Bow CA's, we still get the bleed, impale, and shadowblade line of CA's - rangers seem to be able to do great dps with or without a bow.  Maybe that makes the cost of arrows less of a big deal?

 

Love to see some log parsing - bow use vs melee to see if i'm just making this up or not.  For some reason I think I SHOULD be doing more dmg when I'm using both rather than just melee, but I didn't see any huge differences when I looked in the stat analyzer (mind you, more of my melee skills are adept than my bow).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

 

[Teksun]

At level 20, doing AQ2 (Giant Kodiaks - Even Con) I had no trouble getting them to yellow health before I got into hand to hand combat. Pulling with Backshot, wounding arrow, then backpeddle with open shot. 2 HO's later and they are dead. I got my 15 GK and only had to run once (I backpeddled into a Skulking (?)). I got a real kick out of using hunt to get to a safe spot in bow range and pulling the Kodiaks to me. As soon as the combat was over I'd hit Hunt again and go on to the next one...

[nevaren7th]

I am lvl 33 ranger. I like my ranger, i have to pay for poisons, but never buy arrows. I use RIP for Feysteel arrows wich do very good damage, I use makeshift arrows still and use them on easier encounters. for names or harder encounters or when grp needs more DPS i will switch in the Feysteel arrows. Aside from the ranged tools a ranger gets we also have some very good Melee skills that do good damage in a grp.  I do not have trouble getting grps.

 

Summary if you want to play a ranger then play a ranger, all the class boards have folks saying their class is in need of this or that.  Play what makes you happy.

 

Cheers and happy hunting.

[Cex]

Your post is entirely based on a solo encounter.

 

This is not a soloists game any any form.

 

Play the class you prefer and ignore the negative posters out there.

[Neec]

just because we are rangers DONT be misled int o feeling that we are going to have to rely on bow and arrows we DONT..

 

Im level 50 and my melee DPS out damages level 50 assasain in all but one round every 30 mins when their really big hit resets..

 

Our bows are jsut a nice add IF we choose to use them we get as many melee skills as we do bow but our bow skills are more for fun than any real DPS.. as for arrows you never need to spend a single copper on arrows if you dont want to..

 

We get some really useful bow skills but they are just nice additions to our melee DPS... Rangers we are a melee class that has some skill with a bow..

 

Play a ranger you will not be disapointed by your DPS from melee with my cripling blade i hit for ever 1 k quite often and its only on a 60 sec reset (assasain big hits are on 5 min reset and 30 min reset)  we can sustain a lot of melee damage and if need be we can kill stuff with bow by kiting and running around.. we get best of both worlds IMO..

[Kyllspa]

I just wanted to add that after leveling a 21 paly, I love the fact that my ranger is so hard to hit.  Very often I will end a fight with low power but 100% health becasue my agility is so high. Add my awesome dps, PLUS dont forget travel speed, we are one of if not the fastest in the game.  Love my ranger, may not go back to paly other than to ride my horsey.....