Why does our fear seem so weak.

munos · 12-05-2006, 02:03 AM

I have m1 lev 68 fear and man it seems to barely land and if it does it barely ever lasts more than a sec on mobs. Why is that? Does my minstration need to be better or what. Man in pvp if I get feared it seems like forever where if I fear someone it barely ever works esp for anytime at all? maybe someone can shed better light on it for me. I know if you attack something that can break it but I think ours should be a little better.

juz · 12-05-2006, 02:20 AM

if someone does damage on the mob the fear will break. so be sure to have auto attack off if you cast it on an add.

if its on the mob you are fighting, you can use the fear to debuff it.

juz · 12-05-2006, 02:23 AM

forgot to mention, the spell does sucks anyway SMILEY

i dont see why our spell should be betters than the inq or necro one. theirs suck too btw. don't know who else gets fear.

fear is a sad ability in this game.

JadzeaDax · 12-05-2006, 02:50 AM

Fear is quite useful I think actually.. For PVP, it's key for we dirges. Fear... debuff....snare, apply songs and CAs, rinse and repeat. I have won many a fight by fearing people in to lava, off n'mars or off other cliffs. Thank goodness for fear. I do wish it was aoe though.....

Stroicthe · 12-05-2006, 03:12 AM

Or quicker than a 2 sec casting time >.>

Message Edited by Stroicthe on 12-06-2006 12:52 PM

Lordviperscorpian · 12-05-2006, 07:23 AM

Fear is really only usefull in pvp. In PvE settings youd be insane to fear a mob in a high level dungeon like MM. In pvp its how a dirge survives, and provides a bit of crowd control in group pvp. Imo it should just be changed into a long duration stun instead of fear. That would make it much better for pve purposes. Its my understanding that on PvE server dirges dont even have the spell on their hotbar.

Vincenzo · 12-05-2006, 08:58 AM

if you fear the incoming add, and don't attack it after the fear lands, the fear does work....the problem is where the stupid mob then paths. 80% of the time he disappears, or paths somewhere without adds, but 20% of the time he brings back a train of mobs. As I go into higher and higher dungeons the 20% risk is becoming more like 50% risk and so basically fear is pretty useless in pve.As Applesauce said, they should probably make this a stun (for pve) and make the mob just animate as if it were feared, or to run in a small circle or something. The pathing is far too chaotic for any self respecting dirge to start playing with fear on adds in a dungeon (unless it is a low level dungeon where the mobs are spaced further apart and less roamers etc).

Chefren · 12-05-2006, 08:50 PM

Any fear should be immune to breakage for 1 second (against non-epics) after it lands to make them a bit more useful.

Asharad · 12-05-2006, 09:23 PM

I like the idea of turning it into a stun. Just animate the mobs so they stand there and shake.

munos · 12-05-2006, 09:43 PM

I know it does work at times it just deems it should be better. I have probably 300plus kills off fear alone in pvp and I use it for crowd control as well in dungeons. if the mob is snared it wont go to far. Just that if another class fears me it seems to last full duration or close it it where mine rarely lasts 3 secs. They could all be equal in the way fear works but just seems like mine is kinda [Removed for Content]. Could it be b'c of minstration ability or one of those attributes and if so which one?

Priestbane · 12-05-2006, 11:02 PM

Heh, that's funny. When I first went to MM, that was the tool we used to take it. I do not understand people's fear for using (heh) fear. This is not EQ1. I have *never* gotten social agro from feared mobs, and I use it after EoF more than I ever have before. And fear in EQ2 autosnares.

They did make it so that Wail of Horror agros a mob every time now though. =D

Message Edited by Godstalk on 12-05-2006 10:03 AM

Vincenzo · 12-06-2006, 09:47 AM

Sorschae, i was living in my fear bliss for around 30 levels with not a single social agro, and then the social agro started to happen. 5-6 mobs coming back with the feared one, wiping whole groups.Either you are using a different fear, or are using it differently.

Lordviperscorpian · 12-06-2006, 01:18 PM

Vincenzo wrote:Sorschae, i was living in my fear bliss for around 30 levels with not a single social agro, and then the social agro started to happen. 5-6 mobs coming back with the feared one, wiping whole groups.Either you are using a different fear, or are using it differently.

Its just the level of the dungeons he is fighting in. Low level dungeons have very small social aggro if any at all. Once you get up to t6/t7 the social aggro starts and you will not want to use fear as a viable crowd control method in pve.

Dahntahl · 12-06-2006, 09:08 PM

I've actually used fear to great success in t6/t7 - just have to keep an eye on the mob. Of course - with both dirge snares and the snare from the fear effect they don't actually get anywhere fast.. I like it quite a bit.

Stroicthe · 12-07-2006, 12:52 AM

It's funny, I have never had an add pulled because of fear that I have seen, but I don't use it out of fear of that happening. Ahh well, better safe than sorry. Though it did let us recover from a wipe in Mistmore Castle once, I still got yelled at :smileytongue:

Priestbane · 12-07-2006, 02:56 AM

Lordviperscorpian wrote:

Vincenzo wrote:
Sorschae, i was living in my fear bliss for around 30 levels with not a single social agro, and then the social agro started to happen. 5-6 mobs coming back with the feared one, wiping whole groups.

Either you are using a different fear, or are using it differently.

Its just the level of the dungeons he is fighting in. Low level dungeons have very small social aggro if any at all. Once you get up to t6/t7 the social aggro starts and you will not want to use fear as a viable crowd control method in pve.

MM's a low level dungeon? When did I miss the three expansions that allowed us to get to level 100?

No really, no social agro ever on a feared mob. Not when they first put social agro in with a vengeance, not before, not now. Using it different? Maybe. Out of care to not BREAK the fear, I tend to announce it, so no-one tends to hit it. That said, encounter locked AEs still go off (and occasionally break the fear), but in MM castle, I never got an add from it. Nor anywhere else.

In fact, last time I was in MM castle we had two dirges, and we alternated fearing. =p

Lornick · 12-07-2006, 05:12 AM

Godstalk wrote:

This is not EQ1. I have *never* gotten social agro from feared mobs, and I use it after EoF more than I ever have before. And fear in EQ2 autosnares.

I consistantly get adds in certain encounters. Like Acadechism final boss encounter. If the group doesn't clear both areas with the ward stone you have to deactivate then Dvinn comes back with 2 encounters. (you don't actually have to kill those mobs to deactivate the stones. You can just invis and get close enough to deactivate without fighting). This happens with 100% consistancy if fear doesn't break before he runs through the walls.

Again in Valdoon with the encounter where the fire erupts outside the named room and he has several stone statues that come to life. If I fear his pet (and the fear doesn't break before it has a chance to leave the room), the pet will come back with several werewolves 100% of the time. Fortunately if you don't hit the werewolves they will reset by the time they get to the named room.

As far as mmc is concerned... well I didn't have the guts to even try casting fear in that zone. It's nasty enough as it is. But assuming that the pathing wasn't buggy as hell, and adds weren't a real possibility, fear still sucks bigtime. Monsters will still autoattack you if they are close and facing you. Fear breaks quite easily and the recast is too long to even maintain one monster under a state of fear (even with AA pts put into it). I'll cast fear if the situation calls for it, but I consider it the most half-[Removed for Content] form of crowd control.

PS: I want fear fixed as much as everyone else, but if fear was a long duration stun it would be horribly overpowered. If it was a "stun that breaks when you damage the mob" it would by definition be a mez -- not stun or fear. While I would certainly like a mez spell, it doesn't fit in well with the balance between troubs and dirges. Just fix fear so it isn't nearly worthless. Make it so it doesn't break so easily, lower the cast time, lower the recast time, fix it so mobs don't get social aggro when feared, and make it so feared mobs don't autoattack. Then I'd be happy.

Lordviperscorpian · 12-07-2006, 12:45 PM

Godstalk wrote:

Lordviperscorpian wrote:

Vincenzo wrote:Sorschae, i was living in my fear bliss for around 30 levels with not a single social agro, and then the social agro started to happen. 5-6 mobs coming back with the feared one, wiping whole groups.Either you are using a different fear, or are using it differently.

Its just the level of the dungeons he is fighting in. Low level dungeons have very small social aggro if any at all. Once you get up to t6/t7 the social aggro starts and you will not want to use fear as a viable crowd control method in pve.

MM's a low level dungeon? When did I miss the three expansions that allowed us to get to level 100?

No really, no social agro ever on a feared mob. Not when they first put social agro in with a vengeance, not before, not now. Using it different? Maybe. Out of care to not BREAK the fear, I tend to announce it, so no-one tends to hit it. That said, encounter locked AEs still go off (and occasionally break the fear), but in MM castle, I never got an add from it. Nor anywhere else.

In fact, last time I was in MM castle we had two dirges, and we alternated fearing. =p

How fear pulls social aggro:1. When the mob breaks if he is within the social aggro range of a mob they will come with him. Hell bring even more if he decides to cast a spell before returning first.2. Once feared the mob disapears into the world. If and when this happens, just know that he is going to bring friends back with him. I used fear once in MM castle out of desperation. Our tank had pulled a couple of encounters and mana was running thin. So i feared a tripple up, he walks into the nearest wall disapears, and brings back death. Never used fear agian in MM castle.

FatedByChan · 12-13-2006, 01:04 PM

The problem with the social aggro and fear is not the fear itself. In 99% of situations, if a dirge is soloing for instance, if they were to cast the fear on a mob and then do nothing...the mob would come back alone after 8 seconds and everything would be fine and dandy. In a group though, dirges fear an enemy, and then group members cast debuffs such as clara's or discante while the mob is feared and running through other enemies, and that debuff engages the social aggro. To use it properly, you have to make sure nothing is done to the feared mob after it is feared at all, or keep an eye on it so it doesn't get near other mobs then get taunted or debuffed. I'm lucky enough that 90% when I fear the mob just goes straight down in the floor and dissappears for 8 seconds SMILEY

12-05-2006, 02:20 AM	#2
juz General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 318	if someone does damage on the mob the fear will break. so be sure to have auto attack off if you cast it on an add. if its on the mob you are fighting, you can use the fear to debuff it. __________________

12-05-2006, 02:23 AM	#3
juz General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 318	forgot to mention, the spell does sucks anyway i dont see why our spell should be betters than the inq or necro one. theirs suck too btw. don't know who else gets fear. fear is a sad ability in this game. __________________

12-05-2006, 02:50 AM	#4
JadzeaDax Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boston, MA, USA Posts: 69	Fear is quite useful I think actually.. For PVP, it's key for we dirges. Fear... debuff....snare, apply songs and CAs, rinse and repeat. I have won many a fight by fearing people in to lava, off n'mars or off other cliffs. Thank goodness for fear. I do wish it was aoe though..... __________________

12-05-2006, 03:12 AM	#5
Stroicthe Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 47	Or quicker than a 2 sec casting time >.> Message Edited by Stroicthe on 12-06-2006 12:52 PM __________________ __________________________________________ Your suffering is my insperation. Every tear a song, every scream a symphony. General Syric the Exiled, 80 Dirge of Venekor Officer of Den of Madness

12-05-2006, 08:50 PM	#8
Chefren Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 397	Any fear should be immune to breakage for 1 second (against non-epics) after it lands to make them a bit more useful. __________________

12-05-2006, 02:03 AM	#1
munos Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 376	I have m1 lev 68 fear and man it seems to barely land and if it does it barely ever lasts more than a sec on mobs. Why is that? Does my minstration need to be better or what. Man in pvp if I get feared it seems like forever where if I fear someone it barely ever works esp for anytime at all? maybe someone can shed better light on it for me. I know if you attack something that can break it but I think ours should be a little better.

12-05-2006, 07:23 AM	#6
Lordviperscorpian Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 405	Fear is really only usefull in pvp. In PvE settings youd be insane to fear a mob in a high level dungeon like MM. In pvp its how a dirge survives, and provides a bit of crowd control in group pvp. Imo it should just be changed into a long duration stun instead of fear. That would make it much better for pve purposes. Its my understanding that on PvE server dirges dont even have the spell on their hotbar.

12-05-2006, 08:58 AM	#7
Vincenzo Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 150	if you fear the incoming add, and don't attack it after the fear lands, the fear does work....the problem is where the stupid mob then paths. 80% of the time he disappears, or paths somewhere without adds, but 20% of the time he brings back a train of mobs. As I go into higher and higher dungeons the 20% risk is becoming more like 50% risk and so basically fear is pretty useless in pve.As Applesauce said, they should probably make this a stun (for pve) and make the mob just animate as if it were feared, or to run in a small circle or something. The pathing is far too chaotic for any self respecting dirge to start playing with fear on adds in a dungeon (unless it is a low level dungeon where the mobs are spaced further apart and less roamers etc).

12-05-2006, 09:23 PM	#9
Asharad Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 55	I like the idea of turning it into a stun. Just animate the mobs so they stand there and shake.

12-05-2006, 09:43 PM	#10
munos Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 376	I know it does work at times it just deems it should be better. I have probably 300plus kills off fear alone in pvp and I use it for crowd control as well in dungeons. if the mob is snared it wont go to far. Just that if another class fears me it seems to last full duration or close it it where mine rarely lasts 3 secs. They could all be equal in the way fear works but just seems like mine is kinda [Removed for Content]. Could it be b'c of minstration ability or one of those attributes and if so which one?

12-05-2006, 11:02 PM	#11
Priestbane Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,527	Heh, that's funny. When I first went to MM, that was the tool we used to take it. I do not understand people's fear for using (heh) fear. This is not EQ1. I have never gotten social agro from feared mobs, and I use it after EoF more than I ever have before. And fear in EQ2 autosnares. They did make it so that Wail of Horror agros a mob every time now though. =D Message Edited by Godstalk on 12-05-2006 10:03 AM __________________

12-06-2006, 09:47 AM	#12
Vincenzo Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 150	Sorschae, i was living in my fear bliss for around 30 levels with not a single social agro, and then the social agro started to happen. 5-6 mobs coming back with the feared one, wiping whole groups.Either you are using a different fear, or are using it differently.

12-06-2006, 01:18 PM	#13
Lordviperscorpian Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 405	Vincenzo wrote:Sorschae, i was living in my fear bliss for around 30 levels with not a single social agro, and then the social agro started to happen. 5-6 mobs coming back with the feared one, wiping whole groups.Either you are using a different fear, or are using it differently. Its just the level of the dungeons he is fighting in. Low level dungeons have very small social aggro if any at all. Once you get up to t6/t7 the social aggro starts and you will not want to use fear as a viable crowd control method in pve.

12-06-2006, 09:08 PM	#14
Dahntahl Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 57	I've actually used fear to great success in t6/t7 - just have to keep an eye on the mob. Of course - with both dirge snares and the snare from the fear effect they don't actually get anywhere fast.. I like it quite a bit.

12-07-2006, 12:52 AM	#15
Stroicthe Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 47	It's funny, I have never had an add pulled because of fear that I have seen, but I don't use it out of fear of that happening. Ahh well, better safe than sorry. Though it did let us recover from a wipe in Mistmore Castle once, I still got yelled at :smileytongue: __________________ __________________________________________ Your suffering is my insperation. Every tear a song, every scream a symphony. General Syric the Exiled, 80 Dirge of Venekor Officer of Den of Madness

12-07-2006, 02:56 AM	#16
Priestbane Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,527	Lordviperscorpian wrote: Vincenzo wrote: Sorschae, i was living in my fear bliss for around 30 levels with not a single social agro, and then the social agro started to happen. 5-6 mobs coming back with the feared one, wiping whole groups. Either you are using a different fear, or are using it differently. Its just the level of the dungeons he is fighting in. Low level dungeons have very small social aggro if any at all. Once you get up to t6/t7 the social aggro starts and you will not want to use fear as a viable crowd control method in pve. MM's a low level dungeon? When did I miss the three expansions that allowed us to get to level 100? No really, no social agro ever on a feared mob. Not when they first put social agro in with a vengeance, not before, not now. Using it different? Maybe. Out of care to not BREAK the fear, I tend to announce it, so no-one tends to hit it. That said, encounter locked AEs still go off (and occasionally break the fear), but in MM castle, I never got an add from it. Nor anywhere else. In fact, last time I was in MM castle we had two dirges, and we alternated fearing. =p __________________

12-07-2006, 05:12 AM	#17
Lornick Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 1,114	Godstalk wrote: This is not EQ1. I have never gotten social agro from feared mobs, and I use it after EoF more than I ever have before. And fear in EQ2 autosnares. I consistantly get adds in certain encounters. Like Acadechism final boss encounter. If the group doesn't clear both areas with the ward stone you have to deactivate then Dvinn comes back with 2 encounters. (you don't actually have to kill those mobs to deactivate the stones. You can just invis and get close enough to deactivate without fighting). This happens with 100% consistancy if fear doesn't break before he runs through the walls. Again in Valdoon with the encounter where the fire erupts outside the named room and he has several stone statues that come to life. If I fear his pet (and the fear doesn't break before it has a chance to leave the room), the pet will come back with several werewolves 100% of the time. Fortunately if you don't hit the werewolves they will reset by the time they get to the named room. As far as mmc is concerned... well I didn't have the guts to even try casting fear in that zone. It's nasty enough as it is. But assuming that the pathing wasn't buggy as hell, and adds weren't a real possibility, fear still sucks bigtime. Monsters will still autoattack you if they are close and facing you. Fear breaks quite easily and the recast is too long to even maintain one monster under a state of fear (even with AA pts put into it). I'll cast fear if the situation calls for it, but I consider it the most half-[Removed for Content] form of crowd control. PS: I want fear fixed as much as everyone else, but if fear was a long duration stun it would be horribly overpowered. If it was a "stun that breaks when you damage the mob" it would by definition be a mez -- not stun or fear. While I would certainly like a mez spell, it doesn't fit in well with the balance between troubs and dirges. Just fix fear so it isn't nearly worthless. Make it so it doesn't break so easily, lower the cast time, lower the recast time, fix it so mobs don't get social aggro when feared, and make it so feared mobs don't autoattack. Then I'd be happy. __________________

12-07-2006, 12:45 PM	#18
Lordviperscorpian Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 405	Godstalk wrote: Lordviperscorpian wrote: Vincenzo wrote:Sorschae, i was living in my fear bliss for around 30 levels with not a single social agro, and then the social agro started to happen. 5-6 mobs coming back with the feared one, wiping whole groups.Either you are using a different fear, or are using it differently. Its just the level of the dungeons he is fighting in. Low level dungeons have very small social aggro if any at all. Once you get up to t6/t7 the social aggro starts and you will not want to use fear as a viable crowd control method in pve. MM's a low level dungeon? When did I miss the three expansions that allowed us to get to level 100? No really, no social agro ever on a feared mob. Not when they first put social agro in with a vengeance, not before, not now. Using it different? Maybe. Out of care to not BREAK the fear, I tend to announce it, so no-one tends to hit it. That said, encounter locked AEs still go off (and occasionally break the fear), but in MM castle, I never got an add from it. Nor anywhere else. In fact, last time I was in MM castle we had two dirges, and we alternated fearing. =p How fear pulls social aggro:1. When the mob breaks if he is within the social aggro range of a mob they will come with him. Hell bring even more if he decides to cast a spell before returning first.2. Once feared the mob disapears into the world. If and when this happens, just know that he is going to bring friends back with him. I used fear once in MM castle out of desperation. Our tank had pulled a couple of encounters and mana was running thin. So i feared a tripple up, he walks into the nearest wall disapears, and brings back death. Never used fear agian in MM castle.

12-13-2006, 01:04 PM	#19
FatedByChan Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 43	The problem with the social aggro and fear is not the fear itself. In 99% of situations, if a dirge is soloing for instance, if they were to cast the fear on a mob and then do nothing...the mob would come back alone after 8 seconds and everything would be fine and dandy. In a group though, dirges fear an enemy, and then group members cast debuffs such as clara's or discante while the mob is feared and running through other enemies, and that debuff engages the social aggro. To use it properly, you have to make sure nothing is done to the feared mob after it is feared at all, or keep an eye on it so it doesn't get near other mobs then get taunted or debuffed. I'm lucky enough that 90% when I fear the mob just goes straight down in the floor and dissappears for 8 seconds