Test Results of Buffs/Debuffs

[Netcaitiff]

I did some testing tonight to try and determine what buffs and debuffs are good, and which are not.  I figured I would share my findings.  I will give some info on the testing afterwards for those interested.

 

Here are the Buffs/Debuffs I tested and what I found.

 

Riana's Spiteful Sustain (Adept I) Increases dps of group members by 17.1%

 

With this running, my autoattack damage improved 22%.  Overall DPS increase was 6.05.

 

Discordant Boon (Adept I) Increases slashing, piercing, crushing, and ranged of group members by 16.2

 

With this running, my autoattack damage improved 22%.  Overall DPS increase was 5.97.

 

Clara's Crazed Cacophany (Adept 1) Decreases Mitigation of Target encounter vs all physical damage by 456

 

With this running, my autoattack damage improved 19%.  Overall DPS increase was 5.21.

 

Grave's Peace (Adept I) On a successful attack this spell has a 12% chance to cast Crypt's Revenge on target of attack. Inflicts 61-101 damage on target.

 

With this running overall DPS increased by 2.87.

 

Oppressive Discante (Adept I) Decreases STR and AGI of target encounter by 88

 

With this running, my autoattack damage improved 7%.  Overall DPS increase was 1.86.

 

With this running, incoming damage was reduced to 93% of average damage taken.

 

Wailing Illusion (Adept I) Increases parry of group members by 25

 

With this running, incoming damage was reduced to 89% of average damage taken.

 

Daro's Sorrowful Dirge (Master II) Decreases attack speed of target encounter by 24%

 

With this running, incoming damage was reduced to 80% of average damage taken.

 

Lithe Disbelief (Adept I) Increase Agility by 57 and Intelligence by 67.

 

With this running, my spell damage increased by 16%.  Combat Ability damage was not affected.

 

With this running, incoming damage was reduced  to 98% of average damage taken.

 

Harl's Kindling Strain (Adept I) Increase Agility and Strength of group members by 35.

 

With this running, my Autoattack damage increased by 3%.  My Combat Ability damage increased by 9%. 

 

With this running, incoming damage was reduced to 97% of average damage taken.

 

Hyran's Raging Sonata (Adept I) Increase Strength of target by 64.

 

With this running, my Autoattack damage increased by 4%.  My Combat Ability damage increased by 22%.

 

Overall, in my testing, I averaged about 25% damage from Autoattack, 35% damage from Combat Abilities and 40% damage from Spells.  Since this is a test, and playstyles vary, this is by no means an average number. 

 

Okay, as you may have noticed, alot of the numbers are very similar.  As far as Offense, Rianna's, Boon and Clara's all seem about equal effectiveness, and they all stack well with one another.   Grave Peace is way behind, but I believe that is because it does not really scale like the others can w/ the damage you do.  I am also 1 level away from the upgrade, and I would bet that it would fit in nicely w/ the 6 dps boost the others are giving.  Oppressive Discant is also lower, but it is dual purpose, increasing autoattack damage by about 7% and reducing incoming damage by about the same.

 

On the defensive end, it is basically the same story.  The Daro's is better, but I would bet that if it was an Adept 1, it would fall right into line with the others.

 

As far as the stat buffs, it appears that agility does not have a huge impact on defense.  Strength seems to affect Combat Abilities nicely, but has little to no effect on autoattack damage.  Intelliegence does well for spells.  Harls seem to not do enough to merit a place in the spell line up unless you need every ounce of defense you can get.

 

So, basically, each offensive Buff/Debuff will increase each party members autoattack DPS by about 20%.   How much this affects your party greatly depends on the percent of damage that is coming from Autoattack.  (As a side note, about 25% of my damage was from autoattack when not buffed with these buffs) 

 

Each defensive buff will reduce incoming damage by about 10%.   This will depend upon how much damage is done by Autoattack by the mob.  (In my tests, autoattack was about 65% of the mobs damage.)

 

Assuming these numbers are correct, I am very impressed at Sony's ability to balance these. 

 

 

Okay, now as to how I did the testing.   First off, it is a small sampling size.  I tested each Buff/Debuff with between 12-15 mobs.  (I can only be bored so long::smileyvery-happy: )  All the mobs were lvl 50 v  a skeletal cobras.  I was lvl 49 at the time of the test.  I did not get any skill gains in that time.  (Tested between 20-40% into 49)  Buffs that I had up at all times were Lithe Disbelief, Hyran's Raging Sonata, Bria's Exalting Ballad and  Harl's Kindling Strain.  All stat buffs (Except Brias) that were constant the entire time.  The only combat arts used were Luda's Fiendish Howl, Afflicted Blade, Cry of the Dead and Bereavement because all are only damage/heals with no debuffs attached.  I used them in that order, and would recast when available or resisted to try and keep consistancy.

 

Risk, Lvl 49 Dirge, AB server

 

 

Message Edited by Netcaitiff on 10-14-2005 07:56 PM

[firza]

/e performs a grand curtsey

[Whysprr_Wyrd]

What a lovely piece of work.  You're to be congratulated on your discipline. 

 

Whysprr 

 

Whysprr Wyrdwynd (born during a severe vowel shortage)

Dark Luminosity (ooh! -- nice people, overdramatic name,  I wanted to call it Monster Munchies but nobody

asked me)

Qeynos (but not ridiculous about it)
Dirge ('A group without a dirge is like a day without cold drizzle')
Some level or other (who knows when you're reading this)
Neriak server

 

[Asharad]

Yeah, very nice work, thank you.

[Drevva]

Many thanks for doing this! I'm also curious what the affects of the various attribute buffs  have,  sometimes I am torn between keeping up hyrans for the huge str boost, or playing one of the dps songs, Riannas etc..  These cases are a bit more complicated as the str atribute modifes both auto attack and some CA,  Drevva

[Fromingo]

:smileyhappy:  Very nice.  I am really curious how Lithe disbelief compares with these othe buffs. 

[Netcaitiff]

Okay, I updated with the stat buffs :smileywink:

After looking at this, I am pleased to see that there is no "perfect" combination of buffs/debuffs. As an example:

For solo, I would probably start off with Riana, Boon, Wailing, Lithe and Hyran's.  Depending on what I encounter I would change things around.

If I were running low on power, but health was fine, I would probably drop Wailing for Brias'. 

If running low on health, but power was fine, I would drop Riana's for Bria's and keep Daro's running though part of the encounter. 

If both were running low, I would drop Harl's for Bria's and keep Daro's running.  (Reason being, if low on power, I would prefer to boost Autoattack damge instead of Combat Abilitie damage, since they take power)

If I am getting lots of spell resists, drop Lithe for Brias.

There are plenty of other situations, but the fact that we have several different lineups makes me a very happy Dirge :smileyvery-happy:

 

Risk, Lvl 49 Dirge, AB server

 

[Ether]

This is very nice indeed, and given the limited number of these kinds of posts, I can only hope that we can keep it bumbep and possible adjust it. Combat stats does offer a very good opportunity to test these numbers.

Some points that emerge that support my own observations:

1) Agility is a joke. Nothing merits trying to increase it much at all. Our main buffs are agility and mine at level 44 is constantly around 250.

2) Debuffing agi and str is also a joke compared to daros or claras. Take this off your hotbar and flush it vigorously down the toilet.

I'll likely be doing some more testing with other debuffs like befuddling to see what its effects really are.

[Beldin_]

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Etherin wrote:

2) Debuffing agi and str is also a joke compared to daros or claras. Take this off your hotbar and flush it vigorously down the toilet.

---

Don't say that .. its the only Master 1 spell i ever got *cry* :smileysad:

[Nalhig]

Nice work!  When you get Percussion of Stone at level 52 try that one out for us as well.  I'm very curious as to how effective it is.

[Priestbane]

Silly... don't say that, the OP just went through and proved otherwise. =P

[Ls]

Etherin if i would be 44 with 250 agi (thats nothing tbh) and no real raid experience i wouldnt say such dumb things

[Fromingo]

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Netcaitiff wrote:

Lithe Disbelief (Adept I) Increase Agility by 57 and Intelligence by 67.

 

With this running, my spell damage increased by 16%.  Combat Ability damage was not affected.

 

With this running, incoming damage was reduced  to 98% of average damage taken.

 

Harl's Kindling Strain (Adept I) Increase Agility and Strength of group members by 35.

 

With this running, my Autoattack damage increased by 3%.  My Combat Ability damage increased by 9%. 

 

With this running, incoming damage was reduced to 97% of average damage taken.

 

---

Lots more cool numbers to ponder thanks Net.   :smileyhappy:

Kind of interesting that the solo buff adds so much to spell damage, which your testing shows is about 40% of your total damage.    It also adds 22 more points in Agility than Harl's yet Harl's ended up lowering the overall damage taken more.   16% of 40% is much greater than 3% of 25% + 9% of 35% combined.  No question that 22 more agility should have a greater benefit so yet why when the damage output from spells would be much greater and you'd have larger agi would you take more damage?    That seems to warrent some further testing to me.  Were you trying to do a similar attack routine with each test vs similar mobs?  If not then the average % from each area would fluctuate wildly and the numbers would be off.  

[Schirf]

This will certainly be helpful in planning my buff usage.

[Priestbane]

Fromingo:  small sample size.  =)  Since avoidance is streaky, and agi affects avoidance, it's harder to get a pinned down number for that without a larger sample size.

 

 

EDIT:  Oh, and he described his test routine, so you should be able to see what he was doing.

Message Edited by Godstalk on 10-17-2005 02:57 PM

[Beldin_]

---

Netcaitiff wrote:

 

Lithe Disbelief (Adept I) Increase Agility by 57 and Intelligence by 67.

 

With this running, my spell damage increased by 16%.  Combat Ability damage was not affected.

---

Looks a little too good for me..  or the spell descriptions are wrong, if you inspect your spells you can see that +100 int increases Spelldamage by 10%.

[Netcaitiff]

Beldin, your question got me to double check my logs. 

I ran the test on only 12 mobs w/ Lithe, and all the rest had it up.   Comparing the 12 (Small sample size, I know) vs the 80ish mobs with with it running here is what I came up with number wise.  BTW, the only spells I used were Cry and Ludas.

Lithe I was getting 52 dps w/o Lithe (BTW, 97% hit on Cry, 88% on Ludas) and 60 DPS with Lithe running (Cry hit 99% and Lundas hit 94%).  I had heard the 10% per hundred also.  I dont know what to say.  Small sample size?  Int helps w/ resists?  I really am not sure.  Much more indepth tests would have to be done I think to verify these, and I am tested out for now. :smileytongue:

Also, the dozen fights I did w/o Hyrans I parsed at 42 DPS from Combat Abilitis (Afflicted Blade A3 and Berevement A1)  I checked against al the parses that I ran w/ Hyrans up, and they varied from a low of 47 to a high of 53, with most falling around 51 DPS.  Oh, and interesting note, in EQ Companion neither one shows a hit% or, for that matter any misses. 

Oh, and as far as the % difference on Lithe vs Harls.  I also have no real explanation.  I saw that also, and I just kinda assumed that it was an error from such a small sample size trying to measure a small difference in the two.  In other words, the margin for error is larger then the difference that 20ish agility makes in incoming dps.   Oh, and I suppose I could have broken it down only to autoattack %, but I used over all dps because I have no idea is agility affects combat abilities or not.  (I am thinking not, but still not positive) Let me look up those %....

Piercing w/ Harls and No Lithe 65.8% 33.13 Piercing dps, Total hit% 70.4 total dps 46.09

Piercing w/ Lithe and no Harls 64.4% 30.89 Piercing DPS, Total hit % 71.9% total dps 47.03

Oh, I also checked when I had both up.  68.4% hit, 34.64 Piercing DPS, total hit % 72.3, Total DPS 46.59

Heh, not what I was expecting.  I plead small sample size. :smileyhappy:

 

 

 

 

[Moceph]

I was doing similar testing last night because I was getting tired of just guessing what buffs were worth running.  So I was surprised to see your result with Discordant Boon.  I was seeing absolutely no difference at all in dps by running that buff.  Maybe I was running into a long streak of unfavorable numbers.  I will try again.  But last night I was wondering what the point of increasing your effective melee skill was.  I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on that buff. Reepileep, Dirge of the 46th season, Antonia Bayle

[ITZBITZ]

When soloing, I'll often drop boon when I get Swindlers Luck, since it does the same thing. And when I get Bravo's Dance, stand back and listen to the sound of popcorn.

[Ether]

LsR (whatever it stands for), Im flattered that you took the time to come here and flame me and contribute ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the discussion. My views on agility come from much grouping and some raiding. If you could provide us with statistics and some numbers, it might actually help, otherwise your post is worthless.

[Donte]

Nice.  I have been coming close to your results the more I play.  Not hard numbers, but same encounters watching dps parser, power, etc. 

 

 

I had already come to the conclusion of dropping  Oppressive Discante.  Running all three debuffs is too rough on my power.  2 is max and 1 is ideal, which I go with daro's on hard hitters and clara's if my group is primarily melee.

 

 Bria's.  My current adept is pretty poor and I stopped running it.  If I was raid level and group requested it I would.  Other than that It's been dropped.

 

group swindler's is nice to HO off.  I go for that all the time.  Luck's bite HO is very nice when I finish at lvl 42.  250-550 added hit.  !!!!!

Ardent Challenge - Increases Strenth and Agility by 10     not bad.   not very good though.  get it once and flip for luck's bite hopefully.

 

Message Edited by Donte on 10-18-2005 03:17 PM

[Netcaitiff]

Mocephus,

I can think of a few reasons we are getting different results.   If you are fightingting things 2 lvls lower (approx) I dont think you will see any benefit.  What got me started on this was some testing of boon.  On a blue 1 level lower then me, it upped my hit % from 90 to 99.  I am pretty sure at least part of the to hit bonus was wasted.  So, anything that you are hitting in the high 90s anyway, I think boon would be a waste.   So, if you have other buffs (Including swindlers luck) up, you would probably see a reduced effect.  This could also apply if you are debuffing a mob to a level where you are hitting in the high 90s.  I was fighting things 1 level up, w/o Berevement or Lanets, and that may be another difference. 

Some new questions that this testing has brought up for me:

Where is the point of dimishing returns on our buffs/debuffs?  Do we only need all vs mobs 2 lvls higher, 3 lvls, or is it mob dependant? 

How do we compare in hit % to other melee classes?  I ask this because if other scouts/fighters can hit 99% easier then us, where is the breaking point with different classes in our group? 

What other buffs/debuffs are common to make hitting mobs easier?  What classes do we group with that we should be careful of not hitting the max hit % due to their buffs/debuffs?

Does agility affect proc rates to a noticable difference?  Does reducing disease mitgation up the average damage on our procs, and by how much?

Hmm, the more I get into this, the more I start to want to go back to playing by 'the feel' of the group/encounter instead of the numbers.  The game is vast enough that it seems any question answered may just bring up more questions.  :smileysad:  But then again, I am all about efficientcy and curiosity. :smileyhappy:

 

[Moceph]

That is indeed the difference.  I was testing on lower level mobs.  So the increase in skill from Boon doesn't make you hit any harder.  Rather it makes you hit more often when you swing, thereby increasing dps.  I'll take that! 

[Maldach]

Where's the 5-star button when you need it? Excellent post.