NERFED

[jarrett]

umm harls and Jonthan's don't stack anymore....I'm [Removed for Content]

 

edit: nm im going crazy, now they're stacking

Message Edited by jarrettes on 06-28-2005 02:48 PM

[jarrett]

ok ok i figured it out, you have to cast jonthans first, then harls.  If you do it the other order, they don't stack now.

 

 

edit:   well, i take it all back dirges have been nerfed and the two spells do NOT stack.  making dirges even weaker then they already are.  WAY TO GO SOE

Message Edited by jarrettes on 06-28-2005 02:54 PM

[DocEvil]

found ----We're looking into the buff stacking issue, as the change wasn't an intended part of this update. No intentional ninja-nerf was made. I'll report more when I have details.===========================MoorgardEverQue st II Community Guy ---this kind of change was not intended .. so we'll see ^^

[jarrett]

oh phew, thank goodness, thnks for find

[DarkerElf1]

Good.. I was going to say when I first logged on yesterday  after the patch and I saw that they didn't stack any more and there wasn't anything in the patch notes I was a little more than upset.. Glad no stealth nerf and glad they are going to fix it.. Good Job..

[Knightma]

Just an FYI. That "stealth nerf" where the buffs of the same buff line do not stack, that will be part of the combat revamp.  So even IF we get that back in the near future, we will lose it again when the combat revamp comes out.

Mezmith-50 Dirge, Permafrost.

[Beldin_]

Hm .. to be true ..  i never noticed that they actually stack, when i disabled Jonathans i lost the runspeed but Stats were the same .. or i was blind .. hm .. have to check that closer this evening :smileysurprised:

[Knightma]

I guess I should be more clear. When I say that they stacked, I mean that when you put 2 buffs of the same line on yourself/group that you get all the different benefits.  So when you throw Jonathan's and Harl's on yourself, you do not get any additional stats, just the speed. 

But many classes had buffs that would stack the stats as well, i.e. Guardian.  The new combat revamp will not allow stacking of buffs within the same line.  So the hardship on Dirges will actually be minimal here. 

And there will be a /respec implemented with the new combat revamp so that you can change your choices if you made them with stacking in mind.

Mezmith-50 Dirge, Permafrost.

[Beldin_]

Ah ok .. so if i now have Jonathans on and cast Harls i loose my runspeed ? Not really a problem since normally i switch to Harls before the fight and disable Jonathans then for noxious symphony or claras or whatever

For Guardian its hard .. i know .. our Guardian has 4 Lifebuffs that are stacking .. but all on the same 60 second timer

[jarrett]

I wish we had an upgrade to jonthan's, would make life so much easier.

[Priestbane]

They fixed the stacking issue.  I doubt we'll ever have an upgrade path for our training options.  Since the only thing it's used for now is speed, having it up for noncombat times is not so much of a burden.

 

I wouldn't mind getting an upgrade that addressed speed on a more permanent basis though.  =)

[Lifeblind]

/violin.... If you actually think that Dirges are weak, then you should probably look into another scout class.  I can think of several words to describe our class....but weak is definitely not one of them

[QuiPo]

Would this have really been that big a deal? Do you usually use them both together when youre grouping and/or fighitng? Im not being sarcastic, just wondering if Im missing something in dirge strategy by not using these 2 buffs together and wasting a conc slot I normally use for something else.

[Dejetdude]

No it's just easy to use them together. If you are traveling and spot a mob or stop to kill something you can drop your speed buff, debuff and start fighting. When they don't stack you drop speed buff, cast Harl's (prob gaining aggro) debuff and fight. For casual fighting leaving speed buff, harls, and boon up is no big deal it still leaves one slot open just incase. Them stacking just makes your life easier, it doesn't give you an advantage. Dejet

[QuiPo]

OK I can kinda see your point, but I dont see the point to having them both up when youre in combat (and I really dont see the point in having them both up in any other situation). Wouldnt it be better to have the proc song up for example if you happen to get ambushed by mobs? I personally dont use harl's over jonthans unless im in a raid or maybe some other specific situation where i know im not gonna be moving for awhile.  To me the added bonus of having my group being able to scramble from place to place faster between fights is generally better than the +5 to skills Id get otherwise.

 

I mean I guess what Im trying to say is, all things being equal, if you look at it from the point of view of preparing for a fight, I dont get why you'd want these 2 songs up when you'd have the choice of having one of them up (jonthan's for speed) and some other, more useful song in addition.

[DocEvil]

If i'm doing my city-tasks or just fight through a bunch of mobs with my giuldies to go from point a to point b, i always have both songs up, because the fights don't last long enough to justify casting a debuff. There is no need to have Briars up, or Rianas or any other song besides Boon and Harls .. i usually play the proc song and JMoA, so we are able to travel fast, and don't lose any real benefit from one of my other songs. this is my normal setup .. i just change it for raids or fights that are long enough.

[QuiPo]

Sorry doc, I dont agree. Youre talking about quick 5sec fights in which case, to be honest, if we were gonna put things on a timer Id doubt having any of our songs up or down would make much of a difference. So lets go back to basics. Having +4-7 to atts or whatever really isnt gonna be comparable to having the proc song up. Thats the only point im tring to make. We're talking about millisecond differences on average in small fights so no, nohting really matters besides the competency of our group, but since we're talking theory here, why not have the proc song up instead of harl's? boon + proc + jma + clara's. I dont get why we'd go another way.

[DocEvil]

And so has everyone his own point of view ^^ I don't see any loss through having harls/jmoa up at the same time, because in all normal situations we dont have another buff/debuff really worth throwing in, and even if it comes harder than i thought .. i just drop jmoa and cast my debuff, fear or another buff i need. but do as you like, if your way suits you the best, so it's my way that i'm happy with Like said above really often. You don't get any real ub0r-benefit from having jmoa/harls up at the same time, but in my opinion you don't really lose anything through having it.

[Beldin_]

I use normally Boon,Jonathans and Tombs .. when i Solo i add Brias on last Slot, when in Group the last Slot  depends on how hard the mobs are, normally i keep the last slot free for claras and switch Jonathans with Harls, or just leave Jonathans on and add Harls or Brias if the mobs are easy

However .. i really wouldn't call it a nerf if the two spells won't stack

[Ls]

Tuyens Chant of Arcane is much more usefully than Jonathans anyway (it stacks with Lithe Disbelief)

Message Edited by LsR^ on 07-05-2005 02:27 PM