Hyrans Angry Sonata

[FuriousEnd]

Hyrans Angry Sonata, does it do anything? I haven't quite figured this one out.

[Tekkor]

This is one of those songs I was really excited to get and then once I got it I have never used it. Tried it a few times and it really didnt seem to do anything. I would love to get a answer from the devs on exactly what this is supposed to do. My original understanding was.....that if a tank pulls and has the mobs on him...if you fire this off it will increase the hate of the mobs on thier current target. Thus....making them stick to the tank better.I have not been able to see this works this way in a few tests.

[Xanus]

It doesn't the song is completely broken. This song is only castable on mobs. so the most logical explanation of what the song would do according to its description is increase hate on whatever the mob currently has targeted. So with that in mind, I informed our guardian well in advance that I was going to use the song on the next mob after he had worked up some good aggro. I made sure the mob had the tank targeted during the next encounter and cast the song on the mob. I then proceeded to tell the tank to work up as much aggro as he could with his adept taunts while this song was going on my maintained window. The mob still had the tank targeted during this entire ordeal. Then just to see if the song worked I dropped one of my songs and recast it. BAM instant aggro on me just like always. And no I don't think the song creates extra aggro for the bard because the mob was not switching to me with it on it until I actually recast one of my songs and this always happens. You can't cast it on group members either. I'm like you I have absolutely no clue what this song is supposed to do.

[Tekkor]

I may get my tank friend tonight and really test this a bit more. I would think the way to test it would be to get a tank friend and find a flat green mob somewhere. Then have him pull it, taunt it once, hit it once, you cast the Sonata, then tell him to stop hitting it. Then you start hitting the mob and see if you can get the aggro off of him.Like you said you basically did this but then you redid a buff and the creature switched right to you....hmm. If thats the case the increase hate effect must be pretty minor.

[Landsurvey]

I think the way we want it to work and the way it works are 2 different things.

 

My findings on it are that is increases the mobs hate for the dirge.  It is not a one time cast on the mob that puts a increased hate on the current target but a sustained hate song that increases the hate we form for every action we do.

 

The only use I have for it is when I am tanking.  It is kinda like a sustained taunt but it just increases the mobs hate for you like a multiple.  Example if I attack a mob for 20 pts damage the song may make the hate increase like I was doing 30 pts damage.  You can not use the song to taunt something off a healer though but for example like you experienced if you cast this song then play a buff song which already draws alot of hate this multiplied by the song makes it even more. 

 

Did that all make sense?  This is just from my personal testing.  It is disapointing for me - I wanted a song that I could cast on the tank and help him hold agro like the chanters get.

[Xanus]

Yeah if sony wanted this to be a song we could use to increase OUR aggro then why the big nerf to all scouts( dirges included)affectively rendering us useless at taking any kind of hits/aggro in the later stages of the game? I already draw enough hate as it is and believe me I know how to pull aggro like no one else when I want to. If the above poster is correct then the song is a complete waste because I can get aggro much easier and quicker than trying to maintain that song. Just drop discordant boon and recast it and I can taunt EVERY mob in the encounter/outside the encounter/ sony headquarters/ etc. onto me. Heck I even PO'd Lord Nagafen one time way over in permafrost by recasting discordant boon and had him beating on me too! What's the point of this song? If it was meant to increase OUR aggro then why is it easier just to drop a song like discordant boon and get instant aggro from everything and it's brother? Actually this song would be useful if I could use it to help the tank maintain aggro. Obviously that doesn't work though. This song is busted/pointless.

[Ade]

Guys,

 

I've used this song since the first day I got it. In battle this song grants your target more hate. If you are assising your tank, he is your target.....see now? Many times in battle a mage or healer will steal aggro. I cast this song, with my tank as my target, and the mobs turn right back around and focus on him/her.

 

This song is a great asset to the dirge making us and even more essential player in groups.

 

Adeka

[Landsurvey]

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Adeka wrote:

Guys,

 

I've used this song since the first day I got it. In battle this song grants your target more hate. If you are assising your tank, he is your target.....see now? Many times in battle a mage or healer will steal aggro. I cast this song, with my tank as my target, and the mobs turn right back around and focus on him/her.

 

This song is a great asset to the dirge making us and even more essential player in groups.

 

Adeka

---

What?  If you target your tank and cast it you get a message saying something like your target is not an enemy etc.  I will try it again because what you say is exactly what I want the song to do but it has never worked that way.

 

I am an optimist so I will try it again tonight fo sure.  How long have you used it? Maybe they just fixed it?  I have not even tried targeting anything but a mob with it in 2 months so GOD I hope you are right and they fixed it that would rock.

[Xanus]

Adeka,I'm sorry to burst your bubble but you cannot cast this song on ANY member of your group. You can only cast it on mobs. The reason why you've been thinking it was being cast on the tank you had targeted/assisting is because ANY spell you use will directly goto the mob the Tank has targeted. It's the reason why you can cast all your debuff songs using that method. you don't honestly think that your debuff songs are also going to the tank do you? No, they are going onto the mob the tank has targeted. It's the same way with this song. Don't believe me? Target your tank as usual get into a combat situation and have the tank instead of targeting one of the mobs in the encounter target another group member. Then try to cast this song. Guess what? you won't be able to because your tanks target has switched to a group member who cannot receive this song. This song can only be cast on mobs and i'm farely certain now with the recent more descriptive spells that it increases YOUR hate with the encounter by a miniscule amount. Frankly it's worthless. We can drop/recast one song and generate more hate than this song will provide us. Also, do you really want to be the one tanking with the recent agi nerf?

[Ade]

Thank you and no i don't believe I'm debuffing my tank nor do I believe, or did I ever state, that this spell could be cast on your tank or any group member. Please re-read my post.

 

"this song grants your target more hate"

 

I've used this spell many times and, yes, you are casting it on the mobs via the assist to your tank, and yes it does increase the hate for your target --> the tank you are assisting.  You must be in combat otherwise you are not assisting. Marginal though it may be, this is the effect  I've seen in my use of this spell.

 

Of course I do not think that a dirge should tank. The whole idea of this spell is to help your tank maintain that role in groups. It is not for solo use. Honestly, why would we have a spell to steal aggro? From the post above and our own experiences we all know that we can steal aggro if we buff during battle. Why then would we need and, moreover, why would the devs even create a spell to make us steal the fighters rightful role as tank? That isn't logical, so what are the chances that isn't the case? 

 

Open your perspective instead of assuming everyone else is wrong or some noob. Try this again and see that it has helped me be a more useful asset in groups. I appreciate your comment. Let's just keep them constructive and friendly. We are all friends here trying to help eachother out.

 

 

Adeka.

[Ade]

Message Edited by Adeka on 02-18-2005 03:21 PM

[Xanus]

Adeka,I've used this song many a times trying to see what kind if any benefit it provides. For one, it costs a precious concentration slot and if you are correct in that it increases your targets aggro, that's presents a MAJOR problem. Why? ever heard of the word griefing? Yeah let me catch a caster or other member of the group who's recently upset me and let me cast it on the mob and then target them. Can you see why that would be a bad thing if the song actually worked this way? I think the devs would be a tad brighter than to let something like that slip thru.Bard_001 is in a pick up group. A nice item that only he can use drops. Caster_001 decides he wants that item too because he's poor. He lottos on it and wins. Bard_001 is naturally ticked about this. So to get revenge he's gonna make caster_001 pay dearly for being greedy in his eyes. Next fight Bard_001 decides to create just enough aggro for the caster with his song coupled with the caster's nukes to get caster_001 killed. Frankly the bard could give a rip about the group exp debt at this point. He's upset. No one knows why the tank couldn't peel the mobs off Caster_001 but the bard is secretly enjoying his revenge. OR if you prefer, Assasin_001 just won the uber dagger in the lotto. Bard_001 is an immature 16 year old punk who can't stand to lose. Next fight against a big grouped encounter assasin_001 uses his damage attacks and pulls aggro as usually happens. Bard_001 realizes this is his chance. He targets assasin_001 and the other mobs in the encounter decide to also beat on assasin_001. MT has already burned his AE taunt. Assasin_001 dies.And frankly the amount of hate it says it generates is about 42 on the highest version at adept1. I questioned a tank the other day about his taunts wanting to know what the hate value on them was. It was in the neighborhood of 200ish. By comparison that means this song aint doing jack for hate which explains why I or any assasin, or zerker, or monk, or bruiser, or fury, or warden, or mystic, can pull aggro off the tank doing normal group tactics even with this song going. To cost me a concentration slot for only 42 hate gain aint happening. It's a pointless song.

[Ade]

1. A person could do the same thing you explained in your _001 story by just not healing or not taunting a mob off another group member. Why would you do something like that? Now everyone gets debt, including yourself, because you didn't get the drop you wanted? You're arguement, although possible, doesn't negate the intended use of this spell. And, yes, I do think the devs are a "tad brighter" than to create a spell that grants a dirge more hate with the target. That's what I explained earlier. "Griefing" is something people do and no developer can eliminate this completely. I would have never thought to use a spell like that. Some people, like yourself, do and that is the problem not lack of foresight by the devs.

 

2. I never said this was the best spell ever or that it was intended to replace taunt. Again, (3 times already) this is a spell to support the natural position of "tank" to the fighter class. It is weaker than taunt; it's supposed to be. If the tank can't taunt anymore due to low power, even a little help is just that.

 

3. I post to share information. The tread starter wanted to know what the spell was and if it was useless. I simply explained what the spell does and if the player chooses to use it that is their choice. I grow tired of this conversation. You're posts are accusing and aggressive. You have a right to your opinion as I do to mine. Good luck to you.

 

Adeka

[Lornick]

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FuriousEnder wrote:

Hyrans Angry Sonata, does it do anything? I haven't quite figured this one out.

---

I'm pretty sure it's broken right now. The description says it 'increases the targets encounter hate'. But you can only target npc's with this. If you were to substitute your target's name in there it would read something like: increases an icegill goblin's encounter hate. Player's aren't an encounter for npc's. It's vice versa of course. It could obviously just be a typo, but I've had no luck using this on npc's for any noticeable effect. Hopefully they will fix it so it fits the spell description and you can cast it on the tank as a buff to increase their hate generation.

[Orgingrind]

The purpose of this song is to keep aggro.  You cast it on your tank, and it is suppoze to give him increased hate on the encounter.  This song only works once tank has engaged the monster and combat is in effect (at least it was).  For the most part this song seems relatively useless.  On a raid, this song seems like it will be very useful.  I am yet to test it out fully, but if what I'm thinking it does is correct, then it makes me kind of excited. 

 

Orgingrinder

50 dirge

Grobb

Message Edited by Orgingrinder on 02-23-2005 09:03 AM

[Diaz_EGG]

This spell does exactly as it is described. It increases the total amount of mob hate toward the target of the spell during an encounter. Yes, the spell only works when cast on a group member that has a mob targetted and is engaged. You will get the "not an enemy" message if you try to cast it on a group member that has another group member targetted (assisting the MT for instance), has nothing targetted and/or when the group is not engaged.

 

The obvious target of the spell should be the MT. You could cast it on the MT at the beginning of a battle but given that mob hate evolves as a battle progresses my tactic is to wait to cast it after the MT loses aggro.  Keep in mind though that it alone may not be enough to boost the hate factor back toward the tank beyond whatever the mob(s) new object of hatred has created (like a heavy nuke happy Wizard or a slice and dice Assassin.) 

 

If there's a bug it's that the Dirge can cast the spell on a mob he/she has targetted and that's most likely due to the programmers taking a short cut in coding the spell since doing so does not increase the Dirge's mob hate factor.

 

It is a little odd though that it has a 10 minute duration considering that it drops when the encounter is over. This happens even if your group pulls multiple encounter groups at he same time.  I guess this spell was included with the recent patch that tweaked some spells druation times from 3 to 10 minutes.

 

One tweak they ought to consider though is given that management of Dirge spells with concentration factors while in combat is no easy task this spell ought to have its concentration requirement removed.

Message Edited by Diaz_EGG on 02-24-2005 01:50 PM

Message Edited by Diaz_EGG on 02-24-2005 01:51 PM

[Priestbane]

I can't believe you posted that, what with all the other Hyran's stuff floating around.

 

Quote!

It is a little odd though that it has a 10 minute duration considering that it drops when the encounter is over. This happens even if your group pulls multiple encounter groups at he same time.  I guess this spell was included with the recent patch that tweaked some spells druation times from 3 to 10 minutes.

unQuote!

 

 

That's because if you target your tank, implied targetting makes it affect the mob.  You can cast this directly on a mob.  This is an offensive spell you cast on a MOB.  The spell is a weak taunt you use on a MOB. MOB!

 

MOB!!

 

This doesn't do ANYTHING for your main tank.  Nothing!  At best, it works exactly as it states in the description of the spell, you get implied targetting (from your tank!) and you gain 40 odd hate!  That's it!  There's no complex code in there that makes it affect your tank versus a mob, there's no bizarre bug that allows you to just cast it.  Spells in EQ2 have two targets:  Players, or Mobs.  This one affects... MOBS!

[Diaz_EGG]

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Godstalk wrote:

I can't believe you posted that, what with all the other Hyran's stuff floating around.

 

Quote!

It is a little odd though that it has a 10 minute duration considering that it drops when the encounter is over. This happens even if your group pulls multiple encounter groups at he same time.  I guess this spell was included with the recent patch that tweaked some spells druation times from 3 to 10 minutes.

unQuote!

 

 

That's because if you target your tank, implied targetting makes it affect the mob.  You can cast this directly on a mob.  This is an offensive spell you cast on a MOB.  The spell is a weak taunt you use on a MOB. MOB!

 

MOB!!

 

This doesn't do ANYTHING for your main tank.  Nothing!  At best, it works exactly as it states in the description of the spell, you get implied targetting (from your tank!) and you gain 40 odd hate!  That's it!  There's no complex code in there that makes it affect your tank versus a mob, there's no bizarre bug that allows you to just cast it.  Spells in EQ2 have two targets:  Players, or Mobs.  This one affects... MOBS!

---

LOL. This too funny.

Yes, I know that when you assist what you cast passes through the MT to the mob but this spell works differently. It's that simple. It's shortsighted to think that this could not be coded to work as I described. If they can write a code that doesn't allow out of group heals and rezzes why in the world is it so hard for you to think this song is not coded to work as I described.

Fact: I have used this song to refocus mob hate back on a tank. 

In testing this spell, in group combat of course, with a lower level MT using his weakest taunt to pull and gain aggro, I have cast this spell on one of the mobs directly (not assiting through tank) and never gained aggro on myself. 

I have also purposely gained aggro on myself after the MT pulled and then cast this spell on the MT and had the mobs turn back on him without him using a taunt.

I have also done the same thing and not had the mob turn back on MT until he used a taunt. It would seem that is due to the spell not increasing his hate factor enough until he boosted it with a taunt.

Once or twice for each of these scenarios and I would write it off to luck or happenstance. But multiple trials have yielded these results.

Believe what you will but from my expereince that is how it works.

Everyone wants to think that this spell is a total oops by SoE and but none of them has ever come up with any other suggestion as to what the spell is suppose to do other than to simply take up space.

You can honestly tell me that you have gained aggro away from a MT in a group combat by using this spell as you decribed?

Message Edited by Diaz_EGG on 02-24-2005 03:10 PM

[Priestbane]

Actually, what I can honestly tell you is I don't have to manage my tanks agro for him or her.  They do it themselves just fine.  I don't waste a concentration spot on hate management, that's the tanks job, and they do it well.

 

And, I should apologize.  You got to me, and, like an idiot, I went postal on you.  I still think your point is moronic (of course it's possible.  But liklihood?  I rate it at nil), but I shouldn't have gone nuts like that.

Message Edited by Godstalk on 02-24-2005 01:01 PM

[Diaz_EGG]

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Godstalk wrote:

Actually, what I can honestly tell you is I don't have to manage my tanks agro for him or her.  They do it themselves just fine.  I don't waste a concentration spot on hate management, that's the tanks job, and they do it well.

 

And, I should apologize.  You got to me, and, like an idiot, I went postal on you.  I still think your point is moronic (of course it's possible.  But liklihood?  I rate it at nil), but I shouldn't have gone nuts like that.

Message Edited by Godstalk on 02-24-2005 01:01 PM

---

You're right, good MTs don't need help managing aggro. However with the patch to put nukers back on top as the kings of DPS it happens. And I have been in groups where the MT has trouble gaining aggro back after a Wizard pops his or her hate to extreme levels with too heavy nukage.

 

I agree with your contention about wasting a concentration slot on it and if you re-read the very last part of my original post in this thread you will see where I specifically stated it should be removed. This would effectively make it a nice utility spell that can quickly add to a tanks hate so that his Wizard doesn't get one-hitted into mush.

 

And if you could go into detail about how my "point" (as you call it) is moronic I'd love to here it. Not really a point as much as it is an explanation but it seems kinda harsh to call it moronic without some reasoning. For example, have you experimented with the spell as I described and gotten different results?

Message Edited by Diaz_EGG on 02-24-2005 04:18 PM

[Priestbane]

My own testing of the spell yields -literally- no results at all.  I have not gotten any agro change related to any use of the spell whatsoever.  After the descriptions for the spell came out, it was easy to see why!  The value it adds isn't even a quarter of a tanks agro from a basic taunt.  Even if it did exactly what you stated it did (which I still highly doubt... no other spell in the game makes use of the interim target for implementation, why should this one?  And since it has teh SAME EFFECT when you cast it directly on the mob, I kinda doubt there's any magic there), it would still be negligible in impact.  The time it takes to cast alone isn't worth putting it up, since the only purpose I could see to this would be some form of misguided emergency agro management, in which case there are far more effective methods.

[Orgingrind]

This song isn't suppose to be cast on monsters, what good would that do?  Give them more hate on anyone who is highest on their hate list??  If you are trying to cast it on your tank as a buff, it will not work.  The tank "MUST" be engaged in combat before you can cast it on him.  Lets try to think about this, logically...

 

If your tank is not in combat and you try to cast this song on him, what exactly are you doing?  You are giving your tank increased hate on what?  nothing?  air?  How do you increase your targets hate without the target having any hate?  This spell doesn't say it generates hate, it increases it... so one would assume that in order to increase it, you would actually have to have some.

 

The way it works is this.  Tank pulls (now he has hate), you cast this song on your tank (now he has more hate, because he actually has a target to increase his hate on). 

 

This is as simple as I could describe it, it works, not broken, end of story.

 

Orgingrinder

50 dirge

Grobb

[Jzi]

There are two types of target mobs and players yes. If you target your tank with a beneficial spell it'll hit the tank, if you target them with a detrimental spell it'll hit the tanks target.

Godstalk is saying its just bouncing off the tank and hitting the mob they have targeted. However that depends on wether it designed as a beneficial spell or not doesn't it. Can you cast the spell on a mob while not in combat, if you can't i'm inclined to believe its working as these other two have stated.

 

Even so its not the best way to make a spell like this work, it should be a short duration buff of a few mins max, that can be cast on a tank before pulls and requires no concentration .. but then in fact it'd be really useful =p Or it should be a buff that procs hate, and uses 1 conc, or draws power from the dirge when it procs.. if the song must have limitations. Seems cumbersome how its designed now, if it is designed to work that way at all.

 

The best option, have it as a targetable buff with similar cast and recast to our short duration parry buffs with no conc that adds hate to the actions of the tank. Then it can be either cast once to help a tank gain agro at start of a fight, or mid fight to help them regain agro, but it could not be recast alot during one fight, so would still be limited and it should have a moderate power consumption in line with say lanets, so that its not a no brainer to use every fight but cast when needed.

Message Edited by Jziad on 02-25-2005 03:02 AM

[Xanus]

Well, considering the song at adept1 adds a total of 52 hate, I'd say it's pretty worthless and then to cost me a concentration slot on top of that. Yeah even more worthless goodness. Furthermore you can only cast this song on mobs. As Godstalk stated you CANNOT cast this on other group members. Even if you engage an encounter and try to target a group member not directly targeting the mob you CANNOT cast it on them. The only way to cast this song is by either targeting the mob yourself or using implied targeting thru say the main tank or someone else targeting the mob. Now if the spell is working as you guys are suggesting then WHO gets the hate when you have no target but the mob? Yep, that's right you can have this song going with just the mob targeted. WHO gets the hate? Does the mob get his own hate back because you have him targeted? LOL, no. What happens when you target the mob, cast this song and then clear your target window of all targets? WHO gets the hate? Somebody is getting hate. WHO is getting that hate? Another clue to what this song actualy does is to try this. Have your tank pull a mob. Have your enchanter or someone else root/mez. Then have the tank back way off from the mob while keeping it targeted. Target the tank and cast Hyran's. Guess what? You won't be able to because you'll get the message target is too far away.Guys, we got screwed on this song. It is not functioning like you are suggesting. In fact, the song is generating aggro for you and making the tank's job that much harder.Now before you jump on here and argue with me over how this song works, let me ask you to do one thing first. Grab a buddy of yours preferrably another dirge of equal lvl so that all things will be equal on aggro generation as far as the class goes. I tend to think bards draw more aggro than other classes so to eliminate all doubt make sure it's another dirge you do this with. Neither of you play ANY songs so that you're not getting song aggro. Bascially eliminate all room for doubt. Go find some low green solo mob somewhere so that you don't die doing this. Have your buddy target the mob and pull it by walking into its aggro range. Once the mob is beating on your buddy have him turn his back to it so he doesn't resposte it or something and generate any kind of extra hate except the initial aggro hate(the reason for this is because the hate factor on Hyran's is low and you wouldn't want to override that by having him make more hate than the song provides). At this point the mob will be focused on your buddy and ignoring you. Target your buddy and cast this song but DO NOT attack the mob at all(you don't want any kind of hate either you want to make sure your buddy keeps that initial hate). And, remember make sure you keep your buddy targeted the entire time since that is how the song works according to you guys.You know what, don't bother. I've already done that. The mob turned on me. This song creates aggro for the dirge. Sorry guys, I know you wanted it to work the way you said but it's simply not the case. Thanks sony. Now why don't you replace this song of ours with a lanet's upgrade instead. We don't need this song to create hate for us. We get enough of that already and can generate hate on a much greater magnitude just by recasting buff songs in combat. Brillliant Idea Sony.Dev_001 "Hey guys, I've got a great idea for our scout archetype - the dirge." Dev_002 "What's that homey?" Dev_001 "Let's give Dirges some form of taunt." Dev_002 "Why would we do that? Dirges are bards. Do we really want them tanking?" Dev_001 "Sure we do on occasion."Dev_002 "Hey that's a nice idea. And while we're at it let's gives Dirges and Troubadors some self agility increasing songs to help them." Dev_001 "BRILLIANT! You da man!"Dev_001 "I know, We could give the dirges a song called Hyran's that increases their hate and we could give the Troubadors a song called Raxyl's that increases their hate."Dev_002 "No, you da man! BRILLIANT!"months later...Dev_001 "Troubadors and Dirges are tanking? Oh no, we don't want that! We better nerf agility"Dev_002 "BRILLIANT! You da man!"Dev_001 "No you da man! absolutely BRILLIANT!"

Message Edited by Xanusus on 02-25-2005 09:22 AM

Message Edited by Xanusus on 02-25-2005 09:37 AM

[Orgingrind]

This song is intended for situations that have gone bad.  If you are raiding and tank loses aggro cus somehow tank loses aggro, you cast this song on tank, mob turns back on tank.  Raiding last night, did it once, worked perfectly.  Exploring later in the evening after raiding, myself and friend tried to purposely steal aggro in order to test the song.  Works nearly everytime.  If MT loses aggro and mob turns on someone else, you cast this song on MT and bam, mob is back on him.   This is not a buff you need to keep on MT all the time, because it's a stupid waste of a conc slot.  The only thing i hate about this song is that it does use up a conc slot.  However, dropping another buff so tank can get back aggro is worth it imo, and then once tank has the aggro back, you just drop this song and cast whatever you had up before.  Simple, easy... So, like i've said in the previous posts, again and again... this song works, it works as it's suppose to work, it is not broken, it is not a stupid song, it is very valuable in "few" situations. 

 

Orgingrinder

50 dirge

Grobb

[Xanus]

OMG did you NOT just read my post? It increases YOUR hate YOUR hate YOUR hate and one more time for good measure YOUR hate. Frankly you're not going to listen. So I'll tell you what, do this for me. Since I'm full of it just go ahead do what I did to test this song so you'll be convinced. You can test it yourself under controlled circumstances to see exactly what it does. And please do so please. Don't take my word for it. Do it yourself.It's not giving the tank any aggro. It's adding *minutely* to your aggro. Your not noticing the tank reaquiring aggro because of any effect this song is giving. What you are seeing is the hate factor generation of the tank's taunts overriding your obvious attempt at stealing his aggro with the minimal taunt value this song gives you. If anything you're making the tanks job at reaquiring aggro a tad bit more difficult in situations where YOU happen to be the one who steals it.Again just so you can see what the song does under "controlled and measurable" circumstances instead of these "well, I noticed the tank had an easier time of getting aggro back when I cast this song."(which by the way can be accounted for in numerous ways other than the off chance that you cast this song) Our tanks during raids have no problems reaquiring aggro when it's lost briefly. do I get on here and say ahh it must have been the fact that I, was playing Bria's that made that happen. No, of course not.Test Hyran's out under a controlled setting like I did and you will find out exactly what the song does. It increases your hate factor by a very small amount. It's hardly noticeable in group situations because the hate factor on the tank's taunts far exceeds the hate factor given by this song. you're not going to get any conclusive evidence testing the song that way. You're going to continually pick up on the fact that the tank just got aggro back. Gee, it must have been Hyran's that did that for him! No, he's just a good tank.Once again, here's how to test this song. I'll go real slow here so that I make it abundantly clear this time:1)Get another Dirge your lvl. The reason why you get another Dirge is to completely eliminate any factors as far as hate generation being different for different classes. I'm sure you've noticed that bards tend to draw more aggro than other classes. So eliminate this part of the equation. You want hate generation based on class to be equal. You also want their lvl to be the same so that any hate generation factors based on lvl are also out of the equation. Bascially you want all things to be equal as far as hate generation for this test.2)Now that you have your equal lvl dirge buddy with you. BOTH of you need to cancel ALL buffs and ALL songs you are currently playing. The reason for this is so that neither of you is gaining an advantage in hate generation by playing songs. Again you want to be equal as far as hate generation is concerned.3)Now group up with your buddy and both of you go find some solo aggro green mob somewhere that won't kill you.4)Remember no songs or buffs whatsoever should be going on anyone of you. All things need to be equal as far as hate generation is concerned. Now that you have found your aggroable green mob, Have your buddy target it and walk into its aggro range. The mob will at this time aggro your buddy and he will now have MORE hate than you since he was the first one to make the mob angry and also happens to be a dirge. So your not going to get anymore hate than him just because you're a dirge. Both of you are equal in the hate dept except the mob now hates him more because he aggroed first.NOTE: it's important that your buddy just stand there. If he starts attacking the mob he will generate even more hate than he already has. Hyran's doesn't have a high hate return so you need to keep this minimal advantage in hate that your buddy has at a minimum.5)Your buddy as of now has a higher hate factor than you since the mob is beating on him and not you, CORRECT? Ok then, Target your buddy and cast Hyran's. DO NOT do anything other than cast hyran's. DO NOT attack or otherwise do anything that would give you aggro. Just cast Hyran's with your buddy targeted and leave it at that.6) If the song is helping give your target aggro(i.e. your buddy here) then your buddy should keep all aggro on the mob because you are not doing anything otherwise to interfere with the mob. CORRECT?7)That's not what happens though. The mob will turn on you everytime. If the song was giving him the aggro as you guys suggest then he would keep aggro no problem. After all, you have him targeted. CORRECT? I implore you guys who think this song helps your tank to try this so your eyes will be opened.

[Orgingrind]

Tried this song again, and my friends in group started to get mad because i was flip flopping aggro on everyone in the group.  If you chain cast this song on someone, they get aggro.  Guess it's busted, somethings not working right.  I did this song with no tank in group, all buffs up... I was the one who engaged combat, I was the one with innitial aggro.  Every fight i lost aggro, to exactly who i was chain casting this song on within 2 - 5 casts (5 being the healer, 2 being the troubador).  Guess my song isn't broken and is actually working properly, if i chain cast on someone else, i get no increased hate, wish i did... but i dont.  Perhaps you are right tho, maybe it's just a huge co-incidence that the person i would cast on got the aggro, for the entire 45 mins or so i was doing it. 

 

 

[Xanus]

Once again you are chaining this song to people who normally pull aggro anyways. It wasn't because you were chaining the song on them. It was a result of you NOT attacking while you were casting and the others were. Their aggro generation was greater than the aggro you were giving to yourself because the song is a VERY weak taunt. Let me guess the troubador was playing Raxyl's while you did this right? I hope you're aware that Raxyl's generates hate with nearby enemies. Let me also take a guess that your healer was more than likely a druid or shaman of some type and was healing you during this time. They also create huge aggro with their heals/wards and yes even reactives create aggro when you first cast them. what you saw was yet again a coincidence and once again you need to test this song under controlled circumstances. Those are not controlled circumstances.Take your same group then. Go find some aggroable green. No one attacks at at all. Heck it doesn't matter you can be the one to grab initial hate. Have the rest of your group do nothing. I.e. no buffing, no healing, no singing, no attacking. Cast this song while targeting one of your group members. You'll find out the mob will not leave you no matter how many times you chain cast it on them. And just to be sure make sure you don't over aggro the mob. Just get it's attention and leave it at that. Listen, I tested this song under controlled and measurable tests. I didn't leave anything open to chance. I tested it with another dirge who had no advantage over me in any way in terms of aggro generation. We both didn't play any songs to exclude anything that might scew aggro towards the other one in some way. I even went a step farther. We were both lvl 50. We went to Everfrost and tested this on the green aggroable "solo" ice skeletons there.Test 1 - He got aggro first by walking into aggro range and just standing there while the mob beat on him. The mob was ignoring me totally. I targeted him cast the song and immediately after it hit, the mob was on me even Though I had my bud targeted the entire time and even though I was playing no songs and even though I never once not once attacked or did anything else to the mob.Test 2 - I was still unconvinced at this point that sony would do something like this to us Dirges. My thinking was well maybe the initial cast of the song creates aggro for the bard but then song begins to build aggro for the person you have targeted. so to eliminate that I told my dirge buddy to go grab another skel and attack it alittle such that a single cast of the song wouldn't automatically pull it off him. My buddy did 300 damage to the skel then stopped atacking. I thought that was sufficient. I targeted my buddy again. Cast this song but this time because my buddy had done a little more hate generation on his own the mob didn't immediately switch to me when I first cast it this time. So I'm thinking good! Maybe the song DOES work like you guys are suggesting. I however, just to be sure let the song keep running. My buddy did nothing but stand there. I did nothing but stand there. After about a minute the mob turned on me because of this. It took a while for the song's minimal effect to build up past the initial aggro generation of my buddy but eventually it did.I KNOW what this song does now. It generates 52 aggro probably every few seconds and that aggro goes directly to you. 52 aggro aint't sqaut. Anyone can blow thru that by doing a little healing, or some buffing, or some attacking on the mob. This song gives aggro to you. It does not matter who you target in a group.

Message Edited by Xanusus on 02-27-2005 12:51 PM

[Jzi]

Got this song yesterday, its still at app1 as only adept i saw for sale was like 7gp lol.

 

Anyway I told the guild its desciption effect, and an sk in guild said grats on your new taunt, I pointed out it said it raises hate(or whatever on the target) he said, yeah one of his taunts is descriped like that also .. was poorly writen. So take that as you will, it has a duration of 10 mins and takes a concentration, so I assume either you are supposed to leave a conc free to keep casting it (very crap), or it had the amount of hate described over time like a dot (not so crap, but still not sure we need/want it).

 

Message Edited by Jziad on 03-08-2005 08:52 AM

[raptorjb0]

All this confusion is due to mis-interperiting the spell effect "Increases Target encounter hate".

 

It should really be read like this.

What the spell does for you is

(Increase)...(Target Encounter)...(hate),

 

not

 

(Increase)(Target)(Encounter)(Hate)

 

By (Target encounter) It means the enounter tou are currently targeting. Effectivly this spell is an AoE taunt, and from testing, it seems to me to be a Encounter AoE Hate DoT.

 

Pretty useless unless you in a due and some mage keeps getting aggro off you. I guess it can be used ot ensure your the next eprson on the list, instead of a a squishy in your group.