Dirge CC: Fear in EQ2?

[LudaChr]

It seems the dirge might be superior though seemingly inferior at crowd control.

 

Since aggro doesnt work like EQ1 - Garsin's funeral march at lvl 26 might be a very very very useful spell.

 

ex. Pull 4 mobs, fear 3 and as they come back fear/engage? In EQ1 this almost meant instant death but since mobs are encounter based it might be a great advantage?

 

Can any Dirge's that have reached 26 give us some feedback on this spell?

 

THANKS A BUNCH!

[Froren]

It's not near as useful as you think. It has a 15 second recast timer and the fear only lasts about 10 seconds max at App2, so far no one on my server has found the adept 1 of it so I don't know much past that. Basically it's nice on a single add because you can keep fearing it after it breaks. It's easily resisted by higher con mobs but works very well on yellow cons and below. Your example won't work because the recast timer is too great and the fear doesnt last near as long as you would have hoped. Hope that helps

[apocdu]

I find it useful, and i have adept 3 for it, it seems the casting time is smaller and fear duration increased, never used it @ app. 1 so i can't tell the difference much. Usually if 2 group mobs come, i keep one feared and other we kill, and yes it doesn't make any other trains, i tested it.

[hizashi]

Since we are considering CC, lets look at the Troubs.

 

To me, fear seems just about as useful as the Troubadour "charm". Even with the 15 second timer.

 

The thing I have not read anywhere: Does their charm break if a person engages it ? If so, then this fear is vastly superior, as people are guaranteed to break charm constantly. If not, then they may have the upper hand?

 

Basically just wondering if our "CC" is comparable to that of the troubs (this is pre-lvl 50 with their mez)

Message Edited by hizashi on 12-26-2004 07:15 AM

[Yol]

---

apocdude wrote:

I find it useful, and i have adept 3 for it, it seems the casting time is smaller and fear duration increased, never used it @ app. 1 so i can't tell the difference much. Usually if 2 group mobs come, i keep one feared and other we kill, and yes it doesn't make any other trains, i tested it.

---

 

I'm iffy on this one.  This spell in itself is great at apprentice 3.  It works for about 15 seconds and I haven't had any resists to it. 

HOWEVER, its extremely hard to use this spell when you've got your other 5 concentration slots filled.  As all of you dirges know, the cancelling of spells hasn't worked properly since Beta.  You right-click the icon and you don't get your concentration back.  We still have to cancel concentration by right-clicking the bubbles. 

Now in most scenarios, you only need to fear a mob if you've already engaged another.  Which means that you, the dirge, have to

1) realize you might get an additional mob

2) find and cancel the least needed buff(probably crypt's quiet)

3) turn off attack, target the additional mob, and fear it.

Doing all of this while still helping with Heroic Opportunities, re-dotting with Darksong blade, mitigating mental so mages can land their spells better, doing positional dps, and managing hate can become hectic.

IMO, if they fix the concentration issue when canceling the icon of a buff/debuff, then this spell will become a lot more valuable to me and my party.  With that current bug, I find it hard to manage.

Message Edited by Yolos on 11-29-2004 01:42 PM

[Salwe]

odd, i cancel buffs all the time and regain concentration just fine.  i just right click on the buff icon and boom, can recast another as needed

[Daffid011]

Somedays I can cancel buffs and get concentration back, some days I cannot.

[Yol]

---

Salwena wrote:

odd, i cancel buffs all the time and regain concentration just fine.  i just right click on the buff icon and boom, can recast another as needed

---

If I'm solo, it seems to work ok.  However, when I'm in a group(which is most of the time), it never works.  I guess the point is, its too sporadic to rely on, especially during a dangerous encounter.

[KlaazDethskurge]

I have posted this in another area, but since the last post (group vs. solo) seems to support it, I thought I would ask again.  I have never had problem regaining my concentration points, but I also cancel all of my spells out of the Maintenance Window instead of out of the Buff Window.  If you are in a group and cancel the effect, you are simply clicking the effect off of yourself, but it remains up on everyone else.  It often seems redundant to have my maintenance window up when all the icons are already in my buff window too, but I haven't had any probs regaining concentration.  It could just be my limited play so far though.

[Aillaw]

To answer the question posed about charm.  You can use your "pet" to attack another mob but the charm time is about equal to a dirge's fear and the recast is much higher.  I think a couple mins. 

[Raol]

Charm also requires no concentration. And no, nobody in your group can attack a charmed mob (leading to much confusion, even though I say quite clearly what I'm charming)But it has a 3 min recharge (which is completely rediculous, as it isn't a "save your **mods 4 teh win!!1!**" type spell).I only really use it for adds.

[KDv2]

Are you able to fear ++ mobs?

[Salwe]

yes im able to fear ^^ mobs.  the duration is short,  but the recast timer is also.  and generally i can keep an add occupied fairlyt well.  only giants seem to be a pain only because targetting is harder when you have that much MOB in your face

 

as far as concentration.  you have 2 windows with buffs.  one is your maintained spells (you cast) and one if you general buff box.  if you right click and cancel from the general box (where all your buffs show up) it doesnt seem to regain the concentration.  but if you cancel from your maintained box (that only shows your buffs (or debuffs) you cast)  it regains it 100% of the time for me.  group or solo. 

[Salwe]

as a side note,  fear "normally" doesnt aggro adds.  but it seems if a feared mob runs directly on another spawn it can aggro.  has happened only twice so far to me.  but still worth noting.  the mobs has to be rediculously close to aggro it seems

[Priestbane]

This has been explained in this thread, but I wanted to clarify just in case:

Canceling a buff through your maintenance window (or from your conc bubbles) cancels the spell or song you cast, and returns concentration spent on it.  Canceling a buff in the Spells affecting you window only cancels that buff effect on you.  You are still maintaining it (if it's a group buff) on everyone else, and thus, your concentration points are still spent.

 

Hope this helps clarify things.

[Yol]

---

Godstalk wrote:

This has been explained in this thread, but I wanted to clarify just in case:

Canceling a buff through your maintenance window (or from your conc bubbles) cancels the spell or song you cast, and returns concentration spent on it.  Canceling a buff in the Spells affecting you window only cancels that buff effect on you.  You are still maintaining it (if it's a group buff) on everyone else, and thus, your concentration points are still spent.

 

Hope this helps clarify things.

---

Thanks everyone for clarification I'll have to give that a try.  I removed the maintenance window back on IoR during beta and again during Live.  I thought it was dumb to have two buffs windows.  Hopefully the devs will make it so that you can cancel from the Spells window because I can't think of ANY Bardic buffs that that I'd want to cancel on myself and leave on everyone else.

How do I get the Maintenance window back?

[Priestbane]

Sorry...  I hope they don't change it.  The maintenance window is not a buff window, it's a window showing which spells *I* am running.  I'd sooner get rid of the buffs window (not that I'm advocating that either...); that's much less interesting to me during most of my normal work.

 

[KDv2]

It'd be nice if you could cancel the buffs by just left clicking it (like in EQ), instead of opening a menu via right click, then clicking cancel.

 

Less clicks please!!!

[gsn]

well, double click... dont want a bunch of people to left click when grabbing an item or something, cancelling buffs, and crying to devs about it

[arieste]

Fear is also slightly bugged, since it often makes the feared mob get lost and your group is stuck in encounter mode not able to get xp or regen until relog/zone. This isnt much of a problem outdoors, but happens a lot in dungeons.a.

[Salwe]

yeah but thats not so much a problem with fear,  but with the pathing in dungeons.  it can happen to non feared mobs you pull to your group. 

[ForsakenFy]

does fear break if the mob is hit? from my experience it does but i'm not entirely sure.

 

as for it being effective CC, the spell is pretty much a pain in the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] (i only have app 1). I don't think it would be overpowering if they had the duration equal to the recast time. It's an easily resisted spell and doesn't even seem to work all the time (because someone is hitting it?). In the middle of battle it's also a big pain in the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] with our spells taking up soo many [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] concentration points to have to right click (which because of memory problems can freeze my computer for 10 secs when i right click) and turn off a buff, stop attacking your current mob, turn and find the mob you want to fear, fear it, turn back and start fighting, as soon as you start fighting the mob is already back and pounding away and your recast still has 5 more seconds....

 

pain in the neck spell. i wish they would let us double click-off spells like in EQ1 =( =( =( =/

[Tekkor]

Well to be honest I love our fear song. Im only level 29 and already it has saved my [Removed for Content] along with my groupmates countless times. Today in Enchanted Lands we had a full group of level 28-29's with one 30. We had a pretty tough red ^^ wasp. We only had it about halfway and we got an add of another one. We only had one healer and no other crowd control. So I feared it. It was a red ^^ as well. The first time I did it the thing resisted. But I was able to fire it off right away again I believe. It feared. I went back to the other creature and hit it like 2 times. Then got ready for it to come back.I did this and feared it 3 times while the group finished the first one. We definetly would have had people die if I had not done this. As it was by the time we killed the second one everyone was low on power and one guy was very near death with the healer oop. This was with a app1 version as well as I have yet to find a better copy of it. I could tell you at least 4 or 5 other similar stories like this. I could tell you how I have been soloing skeles out in steppes near varsoons entrance and Ill get a add...ill fear it...finish the one Im on off....fear it again....then sap health from it and start on it. Im telling you. Once you get used to it and get the timer in your head of when its about due to turn around it works great.The group I was with in Enchanted Lands after the fight started going crazy asking "How did you make the other one go away?" (even though I told them during fight i was fearing it). Afterwards they all had a new appreciation of Dirges.

[Lornick]

Yeah, I agree with Tekkor. Lots of good experiences with it. The only bad ones I've had are in dungeons cause of pathing. Outdoor zones it works wonderfully. The big trick is remembering you have it when crap hits the fan!

[Tekkor]

Yep Lornick I have had the dungeon issue a couple times in Varsoons. We had a pop of a extra one of those golem things... I feared it and it went into the wall. Never came out. We were able to though go down the hall about 50 yards and it broke the encounter. Not too bad a hassle. It is aggravating when that happens. I think the devs need to program something so that if a creature gets stuck after a bit like that it gets teleported back to its spawn spot or something.

[Psixaki]

fear rocks! try the below:If you travel and a mob agroes, fear it, break the encounter and mob totally forgets you...If you get an add and you KNOW you wont be able to kill it with the group cause of OOM situations, fear it, yell it and keep fearing... if it happens to run straight away from the party, it will forget you totally... if it doesnt, fear it again and just more the oposite direction a bit, same result If you are in a dungeon and you fear a mob of the group you are fighting, hit it first with whatever your strongest available skill is and then fear, so if it returns invisible, it hits you, you hit escape, autotarget the mob and refear or act as /assist for the grp to kill the mob...If you solo and your mana is enough, use your dot hits, fear, then use range nukes and arrows... fear acts like root, it might brake but if it doesnt you deliver some nice dmg while the mob is away, you dont get hit in the meanwhile and when mob is back you have all attacks open to reuse on it...If you got a fleeing mob, try fearing and then nuking it... sometimes, if fear is broken by the nuke, it stops fleeing and returns to you, so you dont have to run after it to finish it... (doesnt work always, no clue why )

[MiscreantPy]

Fear sucks hard, and isn't really CC at all, since they come back with friends they agroed sometimes.

[Psixaki]

---

MiscreantPyro wrote:

Fear sucks hard, and isn't really CC at all, since they come back with friends they agroed sometimes.

---

never had that, never ever, even in dungeons where sometimes we got buged by invisible mobs... and been kitting with fear from the lvl i got it... prolly you do something wrong.