Alin's _____ Serenade - Real function?

Crombie · 12-13-2005, 10:02 PM

The troubador ability Alin____ Serenade (first one is "Soothing" which we get at level 24)

says this exactly

Places a seranading song surrounding

all non-fighters in the troubador's

group. This song reduces enemy hate

towards any of the troubador's allies

that they damage, decreases the

overall ammount of hate that is

generated by the troubador's allies.

Effects :

-When target is damaged this spell will cast

Serenade on the target's attacker

-Decreases Threat by #

-If fighter

-Decreases Hate Gain of group members (AE)

by #%

-If fighter

The description reads clearly as a way to lower the ammount of agro generated, but the effects on the bottom are rather confusing

Ive heard claims for this to work correctly you require a fighter in the group. Have heard some saying its based off of hit rates, the more a mob is hit the more this comes into effect. Have heard so many other views on it I'm not sure what to think. I am occasionally in groups with just all mages and they rarely ever draw agro in a raid setting (except the occasional overnuking mage) with this song active.

Also, the If fighter statements are misleading... have heard it means it requires a fighter.. excludes fighter.. even if the mob is a fighter.. ugh!! hehe

Any clarification on the matter would be welcomed!

Message Edited by Crombie on 12-13-2005 11:08 AM

Kulaf · 12-14-2005, 02:44 AM

The line reduces hate generation by non-fighters by X%.

If a non-figher is damaged by a mob X amount of hate is removed from the target of the attack.

Yes it requires a fighter in group to be effective as a tool.

ForgottenFoundling · 12-14-2005, 04:02 AM

You do not need a fighter for it to work

The "-if fighter" line is an exception to the mechanics of the spell. Basically, the spell works on all members of the group unless they are fighters. The spell also has 2 functions. It lowers hate gain by non-fighters by x%. It also has a "slip" like effect which reduces hate on a non-fighter group member if they are getting attacked.

Andric_D · 12-14-2005, 05:50 AM

This is one of our best group abilities. It doesnt seem to be of any noticible use on raids though from what I've seen - a non tanke gets agro they are dead just the same and it only affects your own groups agro it seems. If this was made into a raid wide buff it woud be totally awesome SMILEY

(hint hint)

Kulaf · 12-14-2005, 08:39 AM

ForgottenFoundling wrote:

You do not need a fighter for it to work

The "-if fighter" line is an exception to the mechanics of the spell. Basically, the spell works on all members of the group unless they are fighters. The spell also has 2 functions. It lowers hate gain by non-fighters by x%. It also has a "slip" like effect which reduces hate on a non-fighter group member if they are getting attacked.

Well I guess that depends on your definition of "work" then. If you consider a group of characters who are not fighters where all of their hate is being reduced by the samepercentage and every time someone tries to tank it further reduces their hate so they cannot hold agro "working"......then yeah, you don't need a fighter for it to "work". :smileywink:

Nydysean · 12-14-2005, 12:04 PM

Does it work in a group without a fighter? Yes. Is it effective/viable/feasable in this type of group? No.

Toogel · 12-14-2005, 03:37 PM

There are situations where not having a fighter in the party doesnt neccesarily makes this spell moot...for example:

Fighting with a summoner in the group and they have their tank pet out. The tank pet will not receive the bonuses of the reduced hate and there for can keep the agro easier. Good trio for groups Ive worked in is Me, Conjuror, and Warlock. With my various songs up the mages dont pull agro from the Earth pet and things die pretty quick too.

Message Edited by Toogeloo on 12-14-2005 02:38 AM

WooTast · 12-14-2005, 04:41 PM

Why doesn't it help reduce aggro again by casters and scouts during raids? Yes, it's group only in terms of active aggro reduction, but reducing aggro on a group member can still lower their aggro relative to a non-group member (such at the main tank), which ultimately is the desire.

Andric_D wrote:This is one of our best group abilities. It doesnt seem to be of any noticible use on raids though from what I've seen - a non tanke gets agro they are dead just the same and it only affects your own groups agro it seems. If this was made into a raid wide buff it woud be totally awesome (hint hint)

Jehannum · 12-15-2005, 12:48 AM

WooTastic wrote:
Why doesn't it help reduce aggro again by casters and scouts during raids?

Yes, it's group only in terms of active aggro reduction, but reducing aggro on a group member can still lower their aggro relative to a non-group member (such at the main tank), which ultimately is the desire.

Andric_D wrote:
This is one of our best group abilities. It doesnt seem to be of any noticible use on raids though from what I've seen - a non tanke gets agro they are dead just the same and it only affects your own groups agro it seems.

If this was made into a raid wide buff it woud be totally awesome (hint hint)

Agreed

I don't mean to sound snotty, but if it were raid-wide it'd be too overpowered. Especially in light of the fact that everyone else with a targeted aggro ability (dirges and pallies esp) would then have to lobby to have their abilities work for an entire raid, reducing the value of intelligent group design.

blueduckie · 12-16-2005, 01:18 AM

It works with out a fighter and is our best raid song IMHO. It allows our scouts to go from 500 dps - 1k-1300 dps. They cant peel when it is on with no hate inducer in mt group also. as i said in other threads with out proc song working on alot of ranger skills we are best suited to be grouped with them as they can potentially do the highest dps period.

Azadar · 12-16-2005, 02:03 AM

I have to agree, this is one of the best raid song we have. At master1 it reduces agro by 49% and that seems to be enough to keep the dps in my group from getting agro.

pera · 12-16-2005, 02:31 AM

While raiding with this song i notic my group almost never pulls agro unless someone is really crazy and nukes/dmgs mob right when the mob is pulled.

Jehannum · 12-16-2005, 04:01 AM

perano wrote:
While raiding with this song i notic my group almost never pulls agro unless someone is really crazy and nukes/dmgs mob right when the mob is pulled.

Heheh... It's still very much possible to pull aggro off any tank even 50% into an epic mob with this... It just takes a very very specific set of circumstances.

Warlock+their proc+netherous

Illusionist+their proc

Troubadour+aria+precision

Get all these going on at the same time and the warlock can pull aggro quite easily... In my guild we troubs like to Precision without warning, and when the warlock doesn't notice Precision, he usually dies. And we laugh. SMILEY

Dali · 12-20-2005, 07:02 AM

The groups I usually have, have a pally for a tank, and with Amends, frequent taunting and their group hate-steal every 120 secs, they can keep aggro even during Precision sprees. You'll only have problems if the tank is lower in level than your mages.Every few groups, I leave Alin's in the spellpouch just to see what happens. Result:a) Your tank has to have Ad3's and Masters for tauntsor b) Someone in the group dies.If the tank's a slacker and/or the mages/scouts are trigger-happy, someone will die no matter what you do. But other than that, I find Alin's to be quite useful.

thorvang · 12-23-2005, 02:11 PM

serenade is one of our best raid buffs.

12-13-2005, 10:02 PM	#1
Crombie Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Rivervale Posts: 148	The troubador ability Alin____ Serenade (first one is "Soothing" which we get at level 24) says this exactly Places a seranading song surrounding all non-fighters in the troubador's group. This song reduces enemy hate towards any of the troubador's allies that they damage, decreases the overall ammount of hate that is generated by the troubador's allies. Effects : -When target is damaged this spell will cast Serenade on the target's attacker -Decreases Threat by # -If fighter -Decreases Hate Gain of group members (AE) by #% -If fighter The description reads clearly as a way to lower the ammount of agro generated, but the effects on the bottom are rather confusing Ive heard claims for this to work correctly you require a fighter in the group. Have heard some saying its based off of hit rates, the more a mob is hit the more this comes into effect. Have heard so many other views on it I'm not sure what to think. I am occasionally in groups with just all mages and they rarely ever draw agro in a raid setting (except the occasional overnuking mage) with this song active. Also, the If fighter statements are misleading... have heard it means it requires a fighter.. excludes fighter.. even if the mob is a fighter.. ugh!! hehe Any clarification on the matter would be welcomed! Message Edited by Crombie on 12-13-2005 11:08 AM __________________

12-14-2005, 02:44 AM	#2
Kulaf Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 387	The line reduces hate generation by non-fighters by X%. If a non-figher is damaged by a mob X amount of hate is removed from the target of the attack. Yes it requires a fighter in group to be effective as a tool. __________________

12-14-2005, 04:02 AM	#3
ForgottenFoundling Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 373	You do not need a fighter for it to work The "-if fighter" line is an exception to the mechanics of the spell. Basically, the spell works on all members of the group unless they are fighters. The spell also has 2 functions. It lowers hate gain by non-fighters by x%. It also has a "slip" like effect which reduces hate on a non-fighter group member if they are getting attacked. __________________ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Poofe Fromage the Fragrant - Erudite Troubadour 80 / Tailor 80 - Qeynos - ButcherBlock/Highkeep

12-14-2005, 05:50 AM	#4
Andric_D Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 125	This is one of our best group abilities. It doesnt seem to be of any noticible use on raids though from what I've seen - a non tanke gets agro they are dead just the same and it only affects your own groups agro it seems. If this was made into a raid wide buff it woud be totally awesome (hint hint) __________________ Staniforth - Swashbuckler Andric (Retired) - Troubador The Blackhand - Runnyeye

12-14-2005, 08:39 AM	#5
Kulaf Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 387	ForgottenFoundling wrote: You do not need a fighter for it to work The "-if fighter" line is an exception to the mechanics of the spell. Basically, the spell works on all members of the group unless they are fighters. The spell also has 2 functions. It lowers hate gain by non-fighters by x%. It also has a "slip" like effect which reduces hate on a non-fighter group member if they are getting attacked. Well I guess that depends on your definition of "work" then. If you consider a group of characters who are not fighters where all of their hate is being reduced by the samepercentage and every time someone tries to tank it further reduces their hate so they cannot hold agro "working"......then yeah, you don't need a fighter for it to "work". :smileywink: __________________

12-14-2005, 12:04 PM	#6
Nydysean Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 41	Does it work in a group without a fighter? Yes. Is it effective/viable/feasable in this type of group? No.

12-14-2005, 03:37 PM	#7
Toogel Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 78	There are situations where not having a fighter in the party doesnt neccesarily makes this spell moot...for example: Fighting with a summoner in the group and they have their tank pet out. The tank pet will not receive the bonuses of the reduced hate and there for can keep the agro easier. Good trio for groups Ive worked in is Me, Conjuror, and Warlock. With my various songs up the mages dont pull agro from the Earth pet and things die pretty quick too. Message Edited by Toogeloo on 12-14-2005 02:38 AM

12-14-2005, 04:41 PM	#8
WooTast General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 131	Why doesn't it help reduce aggro again by casters and scouts during raids? Yes, it's group only in terms of active aggro reduction, but reducing aggro on a group member can still lower their aggro relative to a non-group member (such at the main tank), which ultimately is the desire. Andric_D wrote:This is one of our best group abilities. It doesnt seem to be of any noticible use on raids though from what I've seen - a non tanke gets agro they are dead just the same and it only affects your own groups agro it seems. If this was made into a raid wide buff it woud be totally awesome (hint hint) __________________ Soprenah Level 70 Troubador (retired)

12-15-2005, 12:48 AM	#9
Jehannum Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 651	WooTastic wrote: Why doesn't it help reduce aggro again by casters and scouts during raids? Yes, it's group only in terms of active aggro reduction, but reducing aggro on a group member can still lower their aggro relative to a non-group member (such at the main tank), which ultimately is the desire. Andric_D wrote: This is one of our best group abilities. It doesnt seem to be of any noticible use on raids though from what I've seen - a non tanke gets agro they are dead just the same and it only affects your own groups agro it seems. If this was made into a raid wide buff it woud be totally awesome (hint hint) Agreed I don't mean to sound snotty, but if it were raid-wide it'd be too overpowered. Especially in light of the fact that everyone else with a targeted aggro ability (dirges and pallies esp) would then have to lobby to have their abilities work for an entire raid, reducing the value of intelligent group design.

12-16-2005, 01:18 AM	#10
blueduckie Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 259	It works with out a fighter and is our best raid song IMHO. It allows our scouts to go from 500 dps - 1k-1300 dps. They cant peel when it is on with no hate inducer in mt group also. as i said in other threads with out proc song working on alot of ranger skills we are best suited to be grouped with them as they can potentially do the highest dps period.

12-16-2005, 02:03 AM	#11
Azadar Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 11	I have to agree, this is one of the best raid song we have. At master1 it reduces agro by 49% and that seems to be enough to keep the dps in my group from getting agro.

12-16-2005, 02:31 AM	#12
pera Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 433	While raiding with this song i notic my group almost never pulls agro unless someone is really crazy and nukes/dmgs mob right when the mob is pulled. __________________ - Igus 70 Dirge, Second Dawn Best Quote Ever: "BREAKING: New York subways smell funny"

12-16-2005, 04:01 AM	#13
Jehannum Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 651	perano wrote: While raiding with this song i notic my group almost never pulls agro unless someone is really crazy and nukes/dmgs mob right when the mob is pulled. Heheh... It's still very much possible to pull aggro off any tank even 50% into an epic mob with this... It just takes a very very specific set of circumstances. Warlock+their proc+netherous Illusionist+their proc Troubadour+aria+precision Get all these going on at the same time and the warlock can pull aggro quite easily... In my guild we troubs like to Precision without warning, and when the warlock doesn't notice Precision, he usually dies. And we laugh.

12-20-2005, 07:02 AM	#14
Dali General Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 38	The groups I usually have, have a pally for a tank, and with Amends, frequent taunting and their group hate-steal every 120 secs, they can keep aggro even during Precision sprees. You'll only have problems if the tank is lower in level than your mages.Every few groups, I leave Alin's in the spellpouch just to see what happens. Result:a) Your tank has to have Ad3's and Masters for tauntsor b) Someone in the group dies.If the tank's a slacker and/or the mages/scouts are trigger-happy, someone will die no matter what you do. But other than that, I find Alin's to be quite useful. __________________ Dalinn Ironhill, Singer/songwriter of Lowland Elites, Runnyeye Server Scaler of Pet Shops and Arenas

12-23-2005, 02:11 PM	#15
thorvang Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 862	serenade is one of our best raid buffs. __________________