Hi, I'm Claire... Remember me? Spell Spreadsheet guy that mostly vanished... I have a gift...

Claritin · 08-26-2005, 02:59 AM

http://www.thedauntless.org/Troubadour/BetaTrainings/

if you can help fill it out... it would be nice... if not I might finish it.

Swift_M · 08-26-2005, 03:12 AM

Beat me to the punch, hehe. Looking good so far. RIdian McNight 50 Troubadour Enmity Najena

Sk · 08-26-2005, 05:06 AM

Thanks heaps for the info. Been waiting on something like this SMILEY

Have to say I'm a little disappointed in the training options they have given us. Songsters Luck upgrade looks to be the only one that will be useful when we all eventually hit 60.

Would have loooved a master 2 of Swan Song in it's old form but from what I've heard it's not even worth hotkeying at the moment SMILEY

Kallah · 08-26-2005, 02:10 PM

Greetings,

Thank you for gathering up this information and sticking it where your fellow Troubadours can see it! After looking over the level 50 choices and considering that the spells/art upgrades seem to follow the current 14 level upgrade pattern, it seems like our options might be even more limited.

Swansong (level 45.6) will be upgraded at level 59.6 (or 59, or 60)
Quiron’s Ecstatic Celebration (level 44. SMILEY will be upgraded at level 58.8 (or 58, or 59)

Why would you chose a Master II skill that we know will be replaced something which, when properly upgraded (if only to Master I), should be better than it’s predecessor? Since no one has been able to post screenshots of the new skills, a third choice is also questionable, as it has been said that there will be no more “mini dings” for spells. All spells will be given at the start of the level, which makes me wonder how the “rounding” will work for spells that were previously rewarded half way into a level:

Kian’s Devastating Anthem (Level 46.6) could be upgraded at level 60.6 (or 60)

This leaves only one real choice for level 50 Troubadours who don’t want to pick something that will only have a temporary value. Because it is a useful song on raids in its current form, many have already upgraded Arcane Concerto to Adept III or Master I.

Arcane Concerto, Master I: 883 to Magic, Mental & Divine (current beta value)
Arcane Concerto, Master II: 938 to Magic, Mental & Divine (current beta value)

55 points of resistances (slightly more if your AC is only at Adept III) is the best we can do for a long term investment in our new training abilities. While any improvement is a good improvement, I dislike the feeling of being forced into picking one option - it’s not really a choice then is it?

Perhaps the Devs could re-consider which abilities are on the Training list, to make sure none of them will so quickly be replaced?

Claritin · 08-26-2005, 06:30 PM

Slightly more info... from Khalysta at www.thescoutsanctuary.com

http://www.thescoutssanctuary.com/viewtopic.php?p=38470#38470

60 Bria's Glorifying Ballad
60 Quiron's Blissful Celebration
60 Elemental Concerto
60 Dove Song

Boombastix · 08-26-2005, 06:48 PM

For the longest term investment I'm thinking Arcane Concerto. It's about 2 levels higher than Kian's if your're going to milk the Master 2 for all it's worth. It's also the most boring of all the choices so I'm not so sure. I have Master 1 of all 4 of those choices so I've lost out already (Kinda wish SOE could of hinted they were going in this direction...) What is everyone elses opinion for the T5, and to a lesser extent T4, training choices?

Message Edited by Boombastix on 08-26-2005 07:49 AM

Bobbiac · 08-26-2005, 07:20 PM

meh .... you guys realize that spells are maxed out on acquisition?

WorldsAway_Nybor · 08-26-2005, 07:34 PM

I have been saving 3 inks to make more T5 adepts 3's post revamp (after using my other inks to make adept 3's which now seem pretty weak), and three of the abilities I was thinking of (Kian's, Quiron's and Arcance) are there as Master II. For the reasons above I think I'm going to probably make Kian's, Quiron's and possibly Bria's adept 3 and take the Arcane master II, but I'm liking the DoT and debuff on Kians master II, much more interesting than a resistance song :smileyhappy:

Does anyone know what Kian's adept 3 is like on beta?

Shadoerider · 08-26-2005, 08:52 PM

I have been trying my [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] off to get all the new screenshots from the devs for the new spell database App1 to Master 2 but they are being a pain on the test server. Might have to wait till the dust clears then redo the site =/

Claritin · 08-26-2005, 11:02 PM

As you can see from my screenshots... I have no idea what adept 3 is like on beta of Kians...

Basically anything that took CP that was not a buff/debuff I had deemed "very situational" and skipped upgrading in favor of upgrading my CP-free songs or buffs/debuffs.... or even upgrading my 2nd toon instead of my main (law of diminishing returns... once I had over 5 masters and 5 adept 3's I found that I was left upgrading stuff I barely used... so I slowed down)

While you might get the most use out of your resistantce buff level for level... I have to say that when you are talking 5k resists for a "good amount" and we are talking such a low number of points for an upgrade... and it takes a CP so I usually don't have it up... I'll probably go with Kians.... I think our AE non-CPs are on a shared time now and while I can't 2 box because only 1 acct is in the beta... so I can't test this... my guess is aggro on swansong has been reduced and on groups of mobs I might need this to help hold aggro from my fury. (Yes I fully intend to keep trying to solo heroics or 2-box them no matter what SOE says I should do... SMILEY )

Claritin · 08-26-2005, 11:03 PM

yeah the thing kept crashing the other night... my wife is outta town so I have the midget to look after all by myself so it's hard for me to get too much data until maybe next Friday.

Dystopya · 08-27-2005, 04:49 AM

Im seeing alot of (AE) in the description of spells that say "does blahblahblah to group members"... Does this mean that our buffs are going raidwide?

Message Edited by Dystopya on 08-26-2005 07:26 PM

Windain · 08-27-2005, 08:24 PM

Arcane Concerto is the only true choice at lvl 50 because resists are important and is the only one in that line that doesn't ever get replaced (well not until lvl limit is raised to 65 or 70). Yes, Kian's gets replaced eventually.

As for lvl 40, either Elegant blade or Raxxyl's would be a fine choice... but be prepared to replace them at ~52-53. The snare upgrade is replaced at lvl 51 so dont even bother.

Bobbiac · 08-28-2005, 06:44 AM

or i could use the master 3 ink resource my guild hast and get it to that *shrug*

Arliv · 08-29-2005, 10:33 PM

i'm a little confused here.... you say those are training abilities but yet, they're the abilities i got when i leveled way back when and not the ones i was allowed to choose from. did they get rid of the original training abilities and replace them with normal abilities?

Arliv · 08-29-2005, 10:45 PM

ok, i guess it helps to read some of what the dev's post. the one thing that remains unclear to me now is, do i still get those other abilities? cuz the way i'm readin' it is i get to pick one of those abilities that i would like to upgrade to master 2 quality and the rest i get at app1. am i correct?

Jehannum · 08-30-2005, 08:05 PM

Sort of - you get to pick one of the 4 to raise to Master 2 - the rest remain at whatever you've upgraded them to, whether that be Adept 1, or App 1, or anything else.

Arliv · 08-31-2005, 02:41 AM

oh cool, thanks SMILEY

08-26-2005, 02:59 AM	#1
Claritin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 173	http://www.thedauntless.org/Troubadour/BetaTrainings/ if you can help fill it out... it would be nice... if not I might finish it. __________________ Claire Mouse - 60 Troubadour (Formerly Claritin Dangermouse) Pottamina - 60 Fury Nembutal - 24 Defiler Sslar - 23 Bruiser Permafrost Server Former leader of The Dauntless Current Member of Fires of Heaven

08-26-2005, 02:10 PM	#4
Kallah Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 14	Greetings, Thank you for gathering up this information and sticking it where your fellow Troubadours can see it! After looking over the level 50 choices and considering that the spells/art upgrades seem to follow the current 14 level upgrade pattern, it seems like our options might be even more limited. Swansong (level 45.6) will be upgraded at level 59.6 (or 59, or 60) Quiron’s Ecstatic Celebration (level 44. will be upgraded at level 58.8 (or 58, or 59) Why would you chose a Master II skill that we know will be replaced something which, when properly upgraded (if only to Master I), should be better than it’s predecessor? Since no one has been able to post screenshots of the new skills, a third choice is also questionable, as it has been said that there will be no more “mini dings” for spells. All spells will be given at the start of the level, which makes me wonder how the “rounding” will work for spells that were previously rewarded half way into a level: Kian’s Devastating Anthem (Level 46.6) could be upgraded at level 60.6 (or 60) This leaves only one real choice for level 50 Troubadours who don’t want to pick something that will only have a temporary value. Because it is a useful song on raids in its current form, many have already upgraded Arcane Concerto to Adept III or Master I. Arcane Concerto, Master I: 883 to Magic, Mental & Divine (current beta value) Arcane Concerto, Master II: 938 to Magic, Mental & Divine (current beta value) 55 points of resistances (slightly more if your AC is only at Adept III) is the best we can do for a long term investment in our new training abilities. While any improvement is a good improvement, I dislike the feeling of being forced into picking one option - it’s not really a choice then is it? Perhaps the Devs could re-consider which abilities are on the Training list, to make sure none of them will so quickly be replaced?

08-26-2005, 06:30 PM	#5
Claritin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 173	Slightly more info... from Khalysta at www.thescoutsanctuary.com http://www.thescoutssanctuary.com/viewtopic.php?p=38470#38470 60 Bria's Glorifying Ballad 60 Quiron's Blissful Celebration 60 Elemental Concerto 60 Dove Song __________________ Claire Mouse - 60 Troubadour (Formerly Claritin Dangermouse) Pottamina - 60 Fury Nembutal - 24 Defiler Sslar - 23 Bruiser Permafrost Server Former leader of The Dauntless Current Member of Fires of Heaven

08-26-2005, 06:48 PM	#6
Boombastix Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Brisbane Posts: 15	For the longest term investment I'm thinking Arcane Concerto. It's about 2 levels higher than Kian's if your're going to milk the Master 2 for all it's worth. It's also the most boring of all the choices so I'm not so sure. I have Master 1 of all 4 of those choices so I've lost out already (Kinda wish SOE could of hinted they were going in this direction...) What is everyone elses opinion for the T5, and to a lesser extent T4, training choices? Message Edited by Boombastix on 08-26-2005 07:49 AM __________________

08-26-2005, 07:34 PM	#8
WorldsAway_Nybor Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 115	I have been saving 3 inks to make more T5 adepts 3's post revamp (after using my other inks to make adept 3's which now seem pretty weak), and three of the abilities I was thinking of (Kian's, Quiron's and Arcance) are there as Master II. For the reasons above I think I'm going to probably make Kian's, Quiron's and possibly Bria's adept 3 and take the Arcane master II, but I'm liking the DoT and debuff on Kians master II, much more interesting than a resistance song :smileyhappy: Does anyone know what Kian's adept 3 is like on beta? __________________ ------------------------------- Nybora Ceileir Returned Troubadour!

08-26-2005, 03:12 AM	#2
Swift_M Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 75	Beat me to the punch, hehe. Looking good so far. RIdian McNight 50 Troubadour Enmity Najena

08-26-2005, 05:06 AM	#3
Sk Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 91	Thanks heaps for the info. Been waiting on something like this Have to say I'm a little disappointed in the training options they have given us. Songsters Luck upgrade looks to be the only one that will be useful when we all eventually hit 60. Would have loooved a master 2 of Swan Song in it's old form but from what I've heard it's not even worth hotkeying at the moment

08-26-2005, 07:20 PM	#7
Bobbiac Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 105	meh .... you guys realize that spells are maxed out on acquisition?

08-26-2005, 08:52 PM	#9
Shadoerider Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ivins, UT Posts: 43	I have been trying my [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] off to get all the new screenshots from the devs for the new spell database App1 to Master 2 but they are being a pain on the test server. Might have to wait till the dust clears then redo the site =/ __________________ www.trggaming.net

08-26-2005, 11:02 PM	#10
Claritin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 173	As you can see from my screenshots... I have no idea what adept 3 is like on beta of Kians... Basically anything that took CP that was not a buff/debuff I had deemed "very situational" and skipped upgrading in favor of upgrading my CP-free songs or buffs/debuffs.... or even upgrading my 2nd toon instead of my main (law of diminishing returns... once I had over 5 masters and 5 adept 3's I found that I was left upgrading stuff I barely used... so I slowed down) While you might get the most use out of your resistantce buff level for level... I have to say that when you are talking 5k resists for a "good amount" and we are talking such a low number of points for an upgrade... and it takes a CP so I usually don't have it up... I'll probably go with Kians.... I think our AE non-CPs are on a shared time now and while I can't 2 box because only 1 acct is in the beta... so I can't test this... my guess is aggro on swansong has been reduced and on groups of mobs I might need this to help hold aggro from my fury. (Yes I fully intend to keep trying to solo heroics or 2-box them no matter what SOE says I should do... ) __________________ Claire Mouse - 60 Troubadour (Formerly Claritin Dangermouse) Pottamina - 60 Fury Nembutal - 24 Defiler Sslar - 23 Bruiser Permafrost Server Former leader of The Dauntless Current Member of Fires of Heaven

08-26-2005, 11:03 PM	#11
Claritin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 173	yeah the thing kept crashing the other night... my wife is outta town so I have the midget to look after all by myself so it's hard for me to get too much data until maybe next Friday. __________________ Claire Mouse - 60 Troubadour (Formerly Claritin Dangermouse) Pottamina - 60 Fury Nembutal - 24 Defiler Sslar - 23 Bruiser Permafrost Server Former leader of The Dauntless Current Member of Fires of Heaven

08-27-2005, 04:49 AM	#12
Dystopya Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 53	Im seeing alot of (AE) in the description of spells that say "does blahblahblah to group members"... Does this mean that our buffs are going raidwide? Message Edited by Dystopya on 08-26-2005 07:26 PM

08-27-2005, 08:24 PM	#13
Windain Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 117	Arcane Concerto is the only true choice at lvl 50 because resists are important and is the only one in that line that doesn't ever get replaced (well not until lvl limit is raised to 65 or 70). Yes, Kian's gets replaced eventually. As for lvl 40, either Elegant blade or Raxxyl's would be a fine choice... but be prepared to replace them at ~52-53. The snare upgrade is replaced at lvl 51 so dont even bother. __________________ Windain Shijin 80 Troubador 80 Woodworker Kithicor

08-28-2005, 06:44 AM	#14
Bobbiac Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 105	or i could use the master 3 ink resource my guild hast and get it to that shrug

08-29-2005, 10:33 PM	#15
Arliv Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 27	i'm a little confused here.... you say those are training abilities but yet, they're the abilities i got when i leveled way back when and not the ones i was allowed to choose from. did they get rid of the original training abilities and replace them with normal abilities?

08-29-2005, 10:45 PM	#16
Arliv Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 27	ok, i guess it helps to read some of what the dev's post. the one thing that remains unclear to me now is, do i still get those other abilities? cuz the way i'm readin' it is i get to pick one of those abilities that i would like to upgrade to master 2 quality and the rest i get at app1. am i correct?

08-30-2005, 08:05 PM	#17
Jehannum Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 651	Sort of - you get to pick one of the 4 to raise to Master 2 - the rest remain at whatever you've upgraded them to, whether that be Adept 1, or App 1, or anything else.

08-31-2005, 02:41 AM	#18
Arliv Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 27	oh cool, thanks