Troubadors, Group Buffs, Self Buffs, Live Update #7 and You...

[Velo]

Before I begin the rant, I want to address any incoming flames. This is not a threat to cancel my account or quit playing my class, its just an outlook on the sad state of affairs. It may sound like we troubs are crying, kicking and screaming but... well we are. Lets take a look at the way things have gone. They nerf Agility, and shortly after nerf strength bonuses. Of course we were upset, who isn't when they have a tremendous advantage and its taken away from them like a parent taking a childs privledges away when they abuse them. Lets face it, I abused the stacking stat buffs. I took full advantage of it, I was angry when they took it away, but I took it in stride and just made the best out of it with using my conc on different buffs, like Minstrel's Fortune for example. The nerf on stats was coming and we knew it. I think we can all agree that we took it as it was and moved on, tongue-in-cheek. On another note, we suffer from many poorly planned skills or broken ones (Bria's Entrancing Sonnet -its been ages since they goofed this up, Aria of Excitement and its line of spells not procing for example). Many of which have not been addressed or simply have been put off by SOE. We can /bug it, whine on forums or throw a tantrum but from SOE's previous track record we can all agree that won't get anything changed for us anytime soon. Coming soon we have live update #7. While I will totally agree that bards should be the weakest as far as scout dps goes, we are already bottom feeders. I have been outdamaged on my parser by every otehr class I group with on a regular basis, which is fine because we're a Utility Class as opposed to pure dps. We have so many more functions than any other class its not even funny. We can do about everything,  so I can handle not having the greatest dps possible, but I still like to feel like I'm doing more than accepting group invite and auto-following a random groupmember along with my bard bot. Allow me to get to the point; Live Update #7 is going to be nothing but bad news for us (except they're fixing minstrels fortune duration bug! yay! /sigh). We have observed that they are going to half the damage of one of our greater CA's that isnt a flanking attack. They are also mildly reducing the damage on Sandra's Befuddling and Taffo's. I mean, do we do too much damage? where is this slap in the face coming from? I see no logic in it, most fighters outdamage us anyway.. and Moorgard has stated that the order in most damage output should be: Mages #1, Scouts #2, Fighters #3, Priests #4. We've taken our fair share of punches but this is a cruel blow to us. Secondly, they are reducing the effectiveness of Defense and Parry. Ok, I'm sorry but... As I stated we're a utility class, our biggest function is getting pummelled into nothingness. We lost str and agi, ok fine.. but why this? Give us a solid explanation if possible. Even if a simple buff or two like that can totally change the efficiency of a group to extreme efficiency, isnt that the point? I play a Troubador with the belief that I make a group do more than it could do without me. I make the group excell at what it does, thats my purpose. I make a group do what it couldnt do before, but thats all about to change. I bought into the acceptance of our previous nerfs, but I do not endorse this one. A quick statement on soloing (we solo? lol), the only thing that makes or breaks a fight for me sometimes is the self parry buff line of songs. If you are going to make it so that we cannot raise our parry above max (when isnt it at max if you fight all the time as an adventurer?) then what is the point of the skills at all? They've totally made a line of our skills pointless and altogether worthless.. replace them with a new Combat Art or attack then or something. We have yet another hole in our book of spells and skills.I don't know what they were smoking, but I thought that buff was supposed to make us able to parry above our normal level, correct me if I'm wrong. In conclusion; we should be able to make  a group do what it could not previously do, its our purpose. We're a rare breed as it is, are the dev's out there trying to rub us out entirely? SOE is trying to balance the game better, I give them that.. but they're running over innocents in their path. I guess I will never understand their logic, but at least I can rant on their forums. PS: Is it me? or do they not test enough on the test server? I mean really, less than a week of testing is no feasible way to find out if you're truly meeting your intended goals, they continue to cause more problems than they fix while they do this. /emote end rant.

[fatredfr]

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Velour wrote:
We have observed that they are going to half the damage of one of our greater CA's that isnt a flanking attack. They are also mildly reducing the damage on Sandra's Befuddling and Taffo's.

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Actually, on test even our flank and stealth attacks have been halved.  I didn't really test our normal attacks much, as I can't really tank anything anymore.  Even green solos hurt me a fair amount (can maybe kill 2 before having to regen hp). 

 

 

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Velour wrote:

Secondly, they are reducing the effectiveness of Defense and Parry. Ok, I'm sorry but... As I stated we're a utility class, our biggest function is getting pummelled into nothingness.

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Actually, i think we needed a bit of a nerf in this department but they went a bit too far.   I was able to tank mobs like the CL instance boss, and take hits fairly well (if i got a few heals and was able to cast our defense self buff fast) from pretty much every boss mob except Darathar.  Was a bit much for a scout really imo.  However, as it is now on test, i can't even tank grey ^^s at all, even green solos put a decent hurt on me buffed.  I think the only area that really needed adjustment was the high end avoidance.  We were never able to take too many hits from even green group mobs and up solo.   

 

In general ya, I don't agree at all with these changes.  However, they're not live yet, hopefully they'll do some serious adjustments.   As it is now, essentially our dmg is getting nerfed at least 33% from the ca changes.  And without getting any other bones.  About half our songs/skills are still broken or useless, so saying we have utility is just not an excuse.  If they want to [Removed for Content] our damage, it sure would be nice if they actually gave us a range of utlity, not just 3 song lines that are beneficial (stats resist and +skill), a self buff that's almost as bad as accidently hitting sprint, a debuff that's only good for shifting HOs, another debuff that...I'll be damned if i know what it really does, a quirky to near useless song (aria line), and two seriously underpowered buffs (haste and power song).   It's rediculous that enchanters have about 3x more powerful both haste and power buffs.   But hey, our songs last forever, that means they don't have to do much.  I dunno about the rest of you, but i'd much rather have 3 min buffs that were noticable.   

 

Then we have the issue of our power drains, hurray something that's actually worked.   Perhaps a bit overpowered though.  Btw i hear alot of parsers record power drained as dmg, are you positive this wasn't the case while testing for these changes?  Take half our power drains to keep us more in line with enchanters, and not able to [Removed for Content] encounters in 30 sec.  But leave the damage alone.  You see, doing this would extend both the fight for everyone else and allow us to be useful as more than a song bot after the mob is out of power.  The current CA tables puts us probably around a good priest dmg wise, and essentially just a song bot once the monster is out of power.  

[Rultrov]

I didn't read this because it would make me depressed

[MMThunda]

Didn't Moorgard say that the combat changes (i.e. the changes to defense etc) weren't going live with LU#7?

[Bi]

aria line is a 5% proc for ~200 dam. in a scout group, esp on raids this is very worthwhile. sadly I am usually in the tank group so this only is used when we need more dps in the group. Haste line.. for 2 conc is sure doesnt do much imo - added to the fact that it only buffs auto-attack and not CA's - no point imo. Minstrels probably the only decent buff that I have at 39. I use Nivs and Raxxyls for stat buffs, mainly because when I'm searching for more damage - what else is there to buff? When I am in the MT group I have a lot more that I can sing to increase group defence; but really -  at 39 I am not raiding every day. In fact our guild has only just started raiding. Power drain - maybe with multiple troubs in a group this is nice, but in a group of 4 the other 3 can kill the white-con mob at 38 faster than I can drain its power. The only time I have power drained efficiently is duoing boars in RE which are lvl 39 with a 44 ranger 'tanking'  and still he had 1/2 killed the mob by hte time I drained its power.. When I see this I think - why not just kill the mob instead? I guess with the dps changes my dps will be so poor that this wont be possible but :shrug: with our dps now being nerfed, as well as defence/parry nerfs, and with the former str/agi nerfs; I find myself asking the question of whether I shouldnt just start a new char on a new account and have the troubador as a guild auto-follow botter; because with no dps, songs which are up forever and no real minute-to-minute utility - where's the point? its weird thinking through our spell lines and considering what is actually worth something - and what I bring to a group. power drain, aria proc, stat buff, haste, defence buff, offence buff resist buff. when I look at that I think - that they are great buffs for a defensive / MT raid group, but not day-to-day grouping

[Pickup]

Our dps isn't being nerfed.  If you look at what the devs stated in their plans our dps is going to be above that of fighters (though I imagine at the lowest level for scouts) and our 'tanking' ability should be above that of priests and mages.  While I have serious doubts that they can pull this off that is their intention.

[Vvengean]

problem is they not even mentioning fixing our dps (which is miserable at best) but they are going to nerf the one thing bards bring to groups which is utility

[Swift_M]

I'm probably one of the few people who think that this is a needed change.  However, I do hope that SOE doesn't go their normal route and go way overboard.  I play a 50 troub in a raiding guild and have done most of the small end game that there is.  On raids, there is a certain combination of our songs and other classes buffs that can EASILY get the tank to 100% avoidance and beyond (it just doesn't show any higher).  This pretty much trivializes most content.  Where is the challenge?  And if you don't think our abilities are a tiny bit overpowered, tell me how many classes can easily defeat lvl 48 and 49 group^^ cons solo and still end the fight with over 60% health.  I don't think the changes are  going to affect us too much when we aren't grouped.  Hopfully it will come down to more mitigation than all or nothing with the avoidance.  But as it stands right now, we have so much versatility that certain combo's are insanly effective, and takes all the challenge of the game away.  I even tell the tank in groups to sit back and enjoy not having to take the hits quite often.  I gladly tank named encounters anywhere, dungeons, instances, quest mobs,  etc.  Pull out my shield, throw up songs.  Nearly untouchable. Note to SOE...  Just don't go overboard for the love of... Ridian McNight 50 Troubador Enmity Najena

[fatredfr]

Just a quick update, they've reverted most of the changes I listed above on test.  Our DMG CAs are back to normal, or at least very close to what they were previously.    Haven't had a chance to test tanking ability though.

[Bruge]

They arent going to raise our offensive abilities to put us in line with the class DPS rankings, they are just going to lower everyone elses until it works. Thats how SOE always does it..... :smileytongue:

[Trabbart]

Say what???!!!

You can solo 48^^ and 49^^ . HOW!!!!!!.

I f i am lucky i can solo a 45^^. And than i need to be real lucky.

I do not have ubergear but all are adept 1 skills and white+ conning equipment at lev 50.

Soloing 48^^ and 49^^ is out of the question. SO let me know how you do that. REAL curious