Amazing Reflexes

[SKULL]

Would appreciate a detailed explanation from a DEV on why AR was reduced to 5 sec duration. I'm shocked and very disappointed at this change. Updates notes call it a tweak....this is far from a tweak gentleman and a response would be greatly appreciated.

 

Partigas

 

70 Brigand of Vagabonds

 

UNREST

Message Edited by SKULLRK on 11-15-2006 08:19 AM

Message Edited by SKULLRK on 11-30-2006 05:36 AM

[Krilinye]

Its 7 sec duration in M1 and 25% chance to proc i believe

 

Nways, im not a dev, but i think its because the god avatars are based on AEing people down, having 5 or so brigands in a guild with the unnerfed AR would make them too easy, i dont think its a balancing thing, but more of a nerf so the encounters will become harder to guilds with alot of brigands in.

[toxe14567]

Very, very, very bad change. :smileymad:

[Mono]

i actually support the brigands on this one as they are a raids best friend. Bad change imo. Sure you can joust but your trump card was unless ae was direct you could de-buff the mob upclose. But that said some guild did have 4 brigs so i guess its to eliminate that brigs own encounters in raids.

 

Still i wish they hadn't changed it.

[Zagats]

MY SOLUTION : SOMEONE PLEASE TELL A  DEV YOU MIGHT KNOW TO READ THIS!

When complaining it is always good to have a solution to fix the problem...here's my solution!

 

I have master 1 amazing reflexes.

28% chance to proc,

5 sec duration.

 

This spell is USELESS now.

Despite the semi-high proc rate, I still have yet to see it proc even once.

Perhaps it's broken?

 

Either way, this spell is USELESS (due to unreliability) now, and I would really like it if it would be changed again to something like this:

Amazing Reflexes

Duration : 20 seconds

Cast time: 1 second

Reuse timer: 1 minute

Target : Self only

-Makes target immune to AoE effects.  Hate gain is increased by 10% while active.

 

That sounds more in-line with not totally screwing over the brigands, but not giving us an "easy button" as some have called it.

-With my changes, the spell would only give us AoE immunity for 1/3 of the time (with a 28% proc rate, thats about what it should be anyway!) , but would at least be RELIABLE.

 

We'll still have to joust the other 2/3 of the time (66% of the time!!!), so people will quit using (abusing, rather) brigands en mass just to have good dps through an AoE heavy encounter like Matron.

 

Other brigands, what do you think of my idea?

[Torran]

Your idea is sound, has been suggested before, and has been ignored by anyone with a red name.

[superdave]

They didnt listen in beta they wont here. i am for one against this and no i dont play a brigand.

[jarnpraetor]

The 25% proc rate in beta wasn't bad. The 25% proc rate on live is closer to 2.5%, please nomalize this proc rate. And up the duration to 10 seconds while you're at it, and I'd like fries and a coke with that.

 

 

[Yannick's Que]

It has 28% chance to proc for 5 sec as Master 1, it sucks and I didnt see anything that should let me know it proced... Getting tons of back up gear :smileymad:

[Kylan_Blade]

i do agree it would be SO much more useful, but not "overly easy" were it changed to the above suggestion ... or even put back the way it was but instead of total immunity have it be 75%, or 50% avoidance of AE.several other classes now have versions of this that WORK, but ours is near to unusable.  it's ridiculous.  there were obviously ways to 'fix' the abuse of brig abilities besides the chosen option, as you've found ways to use them for other classes.PLEASE do not leave AR as is indefinately.

[Magus_Bl]

Many viable suggestions/alternatives were introduced on beta with zero acknowledgement from the devs.  I wouldn't hold your breath on this.

Also, I don't think 10% hate gain is much of a penalty at all, especially on a short term buff.  Now 100%+ hate gain.... that would be juicy.   You would really have to watch hate, and it would force you to time that AE well, and cancel after AE goes off... and would actually be a FUN ability.

Message Edited by Magus_Blue on 11-15-2006 10:56 AM

[Zagats]

 

Can we start some sort of petition to get this ability changed to

something with even a shred of reliability?

 

I dont care much for procs, because they will let you down often.

I only count them as an extra, something I know I cant rely on, but is nice to have incase it does proc...

This has neither aspect.  It does not work right in the first place, is unreliable as a proc, and with it being only 5 seconds long, isnt even "nice to have incase it does proc"...ITS USELESS, DEVS!

[Shidonya]

Here's a thought AR as a concentration spot that stays up permenantly unless directly targeted, oh wait that's the way it use to be when it worked.

Hrm ok how bout this, AR as a concentration spot that once it takes an AoE gives lost reflexes for some time period say anywhere from 30 seconds to a minute. This would allow the brigand to keep it up and still have to be mindful of AR if they've taken an AoE.

[Zagats]

You mean make it useful again? No...they'd never do that.  They hate brigands too much for that evidently.

Im sorry you other devs got prank called by Blackguard...that isnt our fault!

[Myrcul]

---

Krilinye wrote:

Its 7 sec duration in M1 and 25% chance to proc i believe

 

Nways, im not a dev, but i think its because the god avatars are based on AEing people down, having 5 or so brigands in a guild with the unnerfed AR would make them too easy, i dont think its a balancing thing, but more of a nerf so the encounters will become harder to guilds with alot of brigands in.

---

Or, the Devs might think up something Clever instead, and make an encounter that is actually difficult, instead of relying on really crappy AE mechanics to create challenge.

Oh Wait... that would like.. I dunno, require a few brain cells.

M

[NemaLVey]

I LOVE YOU ALL! 

 

 

Not really.  More of a strong ( yet, very distant ) likeness!

 

 

Anyhow, I think these nerfs are a conspiracy.  Yep, they plan on doing  "Dunk a Dev" at thier next E3 so they can get a large turn out, since no more women in bikini's, at thier booth. 

 

Message Edited by NemaLVey on 11-15-2006 10:24 PM

[SorynD]

I was thinking about it today & actualy i would like to see AR changed into an attack speed/dps proc buff, would make more sence with the name, then move our FD aa to where pickpocket is now in the aa line up & change the recast on to to 60s, then move pickpocket to the FD spot & change the amount you steal to like 50x what it is now.

[Kylan_Blade]

lol SorynD

[SorynD]

hehe hey got to try everything Lol, during beta we tryed everything & the Dev didn't listen to any of our ideas, dought they'll start anytime soon =(

[DaLurk]

Forums Rules of Conduct

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Things the Community Team and Development Team WILL MOST LIKELY NOT Respond :- To Threads addressed to a “Red Name” or "devs."

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[Zagats]

LOL so what...they go around reading every thread except for these?  Quick, someone change the title...

Otherwise this thread is a moot point.

[Crimson Dragon]

i think the problems i have with it... are that 5 seconds is too short of a window to rely on, regardless of proc chance, and that the only way for me to know it's up is to watch my buff bars, and that's not sensible.i would like to see the duration increased to about 10 seconds (even if that means the proc rate drops to 15 or even 10). this is enough time to plan when there's an aoe coming. 5 seconds is kind of like flipping a coin. you spam everything right before the aoe and hope AR comes up so you don't get one-shotted when it hits. then, i would like to see some sort of particle effect, even just a blue glow around my character to indicate that the ability has gone off. one for befuddle adversaries wouldn't hurt either.... and preferably not the same animation for both.if they aren't set with keeping it as a proc, then a duration ability with a long recast would be fine too, but i think they probably liked the proc and that's why they kept it.just my thoughts / solutions.

[ag]

Yeah, just to echo the other comments here.There were dozens of ideas publicly (and probably hundreds through /bug and /feedback) posted regarding AR during EoF Beta.My personal suggestion was to make it a toggle-able ability with the following effects. (Think of the Zealotry line for Inquisitors)1s cast1s recast-Stifles the Brigand-Reduces DPS mod by 50%-Reduces Haste mod by 50%-Prevents AoE except when directAnd that was not used. Now you tell me how that could possibly be overpowered? We wouldn't be able to use CA's unless we toggled it, actually requiring thought and timing, and under it's influence, we are guaranteed T4 DPS. Apparently what we have now is better, but I'll be Brell'd if I can figure out how.I suggested that the percentage of DPS and Haste mod could be tuned for Adept1, Adept3, and Master versions.As I've said many times before, if an ability is useless, REMOVE IT FROM THE GAME. Give us something we'll actually want to use, not some RNG hack of an ability.

[Aral]

I know I'll be swimming against the tide here but... AR is fine as is.  It was a nicety, given in T6 to an already powerful sleeper class, which made raiding a brigand easier.  Not easy; as always hate generation was - and remains - our achilles heel  in raids.  Our high hate generation has always killed more talented brigs than AE's every did.   For the already skilled brigand who was a powerful raid asset in T5 (very few of us), AR was a nice bonus but didn't much change the jobs we did, aside from eliminating jousts on some targets. 

Where the big change DID come in, was the slowly building tide of unskilled, inexperienced, low-performing brigands who were suddenly "raiders" because they could stand in with their crafted gear, hit a couple debuffs and autoattack watching TV.  The proportion of brigs fitting his bill has increased continually, exponentially, as more weak players chose a powerful class as an alt for easy mode or to provide one-dimensional functionality for a guild.  It astounds me how many brigands I see underperforming their class and equipment, and part of this is due to AR.  You even see some cub brigands or swash betrayers post on here saying how our class was weak pre-LU13, and now the AR nerf is "returning us to the days of [Removed for Content]."  Seriously, that is embarassing - knock it off already - if you weren't beating assassin and ranger dps in T5 you weren't paying attention.   

back to AR: almost every class had at most 2 ancient teachings skills which were powerful, and 1 that was fluff or only moderately useful.  Brigands had by far the 3 most powerful ancient teachings available - rivaled only by Tower of Stone and Tsunami for raid use.  So now we have 2 very powerful ancient arts, and one that is an occasional nice bonus during the raid.  That's par for the course folks, in fact it's still better than the average class received. 

We still have one of the most useful marquee 50/70 skill lines of all classes: debilitate line.  We still have double up and dispatch. We still have the best debuffs in game, and we still have exceptionally strong CA's and AA options.  We have an improved (99% of the time) plead line which can be a serious utility in both raid and group, our strength self buff gives us a real bonus with the new stat system.  Deceit was nerfed a bit - haste is never as good as dps mod - but we can still lay out the damage in a strong t2 manner.

If at this point brigand seems weak to you, you need to choose another class, period.  It's fine to make suggestions for AR - but at this point, our ancient skills as a whole still compare favorably to most classes.  The AR nerf isn't a big deal. 

[MilkToa]

Bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] the change is a BIG deal. You can argue about whether it was overpowered and need to be changed, but all you have to do is play with the change to know its a hugh deal.

 

[DaLurk]

Yay ! we finally dragged a dev's attention !

[Fromingo]

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DaLurker wrote:
Yay ! we finally dragged a dev's attention !

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We did?  I am not seeing any red names in these threads.   Can you link it?  :smileyhappy:

[Mayhem2k]

28 percent chance to proc 5 second aoe immunity master 1 does not help for crap when I'm eating AE's in the face or stunned on the pull.  Thanks for making this class worthless.  I have been nice up to now, but you guys royally screwed up this one.  This spell is completely worthless, why dont you guys just remove it from our line period.  I die a little bit on the inside everytime I have to hit that useless AR icon now.

I have given up getting any response from the Dev's.  If one ends up getting posted, expect a cookie cutter response.

 

[Damari]

scraped together enough resist gear to hit 8k and I was still getting swatted (first named in freethinkers is quite a challenge atm and its aoe is unresistable) and I couldnt get close enough to land any real debuffs for long and its rate of AoE made it difficult to spam quickly enough for the AR to actually proc.

So, short ranged unresistable AoE's on raid mobs might be the new flavor, we aint got no chance.  _!_

[ag]

Throughout all my testing of epic encounters in Beta, 10k was a minimum to survive reasonably. Not 8k, not 9k, 10k.Enjoy!