Amazing Reflexes - the nerf is in...

[Damari]

---

Kegofbud wrote:

Urza69, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

---

Billy Madisson FTW.  

With regards to AR, well, SOE is giving it to everyone now anyway so its not really a unique ability.  A self-applied buff would have been better than a randomised proc.  A proc is a crap solution but as it has been pointed out already, this may change if SoE fix the proc mchanics properly.

 

[DarkMasterMan]

I got two pages through this post, and my heart aches, it truly does. Your taking away my favorite ability...and instead...I get a % chance to proc what was previously a permanent buff. You implemented this in DoF, and left it the same throughout KoS, why do you feel that you now need to change it? Just answer me that, why after all this time would you change one of our ancient teachings. Oh wait, launch day, I can see it coming!Dispatch: Debuff component removed, added new component, spins mob, does not work on epic targets.Devit: Debuff component removed, now knocks down, does not work on epic targets.Rake: Also removed this debuff component, however, it now has a chance to drop targets avoidance by 1%

[jarnpraetor]

New update:

 

AR 25% chance to proc on CA (upgradeable to 35%), duration 7 seconds.

 

This is actually working  for the most part. Yay for us.

 

 

 

But the greatest thing of all....

 

Assassins get 30 second AE immunity with a 90 second recast.

 

 

 

 

[Jida]

---

jarnpraetor wrote:

New update:

 

AR 25% chance to proc on CA (upgradeable to 35%), duration 7 seconds.

 

This is actually working  for the most part. Yay for us.

 

 

 

But the greatest thing of all....

 

Assassins get 30 second AE immunity with a 90 second recast.

 

 

 

 

---

This real or a joke?

[SorynD]

no joke, actualy its 28% now & only lasts 7s & the new aa adds 2s to that for every point spent. I wonder if any of the dev know math, the way proc work is its 3% chance x the casting speed of the CA used. all brig CA have a cast time of 1s, now tell me guys, whats 3x1?...3% thats right, so even if they give AR a 100% changes to proc off CA what will it still be? thats right you got it 3% chance! no matter HOW many % they give it AR only has 3%. hell i'm not asking for much, just give us what you gave to the assassins in EoF a 30s AoE immune with a 90s recast timer? Brigand were the only class to have this before EoF, i don't care if other class's get it to but at LEST don't kill us, of ALL the class Brig need it the MOST, give the other class the proc & brig the better one.

[PowertothePeople]

---

SorynD wrote:
no joke, actualy its 28% now & only lasts 7s & the new aa adds 2s to that for every point spent.

I wonder if any of the dev know math, the way proc work is its 3% chance x the casting speed of the CA used. all brig CA have a cast time of 1s, now tell me guys, whats 3x1?...3% thats right, so even if they give AR a 100% changes to proc off CA what will it still be? thats right you got it 3% chance! no matter HOW many % they give it AR only has 3%. hell i'm not asking for much, just give us what you gave to the assassins in EoF a 30s AoE immune with a 90s recast timer? Brigand were the only class to have this before EoF, i don't care if other class's get it to but at LEST don't kill us, of ALL the class Brig need it the MOST, give the other class the proc & brig the better one.

---

I was pretty mad about this change but was getting over it, till I read the last 2 post. I really havent been pay attention to the other classes because I really dont care what they get or dont get. BUT if assassins really get this 30s immune with a 90s recast in EoF, then why did Brigands EVER get this skill in the first place, why did it not go to assassins in DoF?

Message Edited by PowertothePeople on 11-07-2006 11:25 PM

[Ni7r0kill32]

   This is a kick in the nuts

[Ni7r0kill32]

ok, i just got done testing AR in beta on about 10 differnt mobs, all were grey cuase i didn't feel like zoning. They have changed it, there is no more red icon if you are hit then it dispels the current AR proc. just that proc so if you don't have a dot and it procs again then it will stay up and you wont get hit. Also a mjor change they made is it seems that the AR buffs are only on one part of the spell effects window. Still i say 7 seconds is to low. Still needs to be above 10 for it really be usefull, but major improvement devs.

[Lockeye]

The combat art proc and higher proc percentage is meant to give you more control of forcing AR to proc. 7 seconds is plenty of time to throttle your combat arts to get it to proc again. You may also want to save up the reuse on your combat arts when you know bosses are due for an area effect ability. In this way, the AR proc rewards the brigands who time their boss encounters well.

[Niende]

Please just remove Amazing Reflexes from my brigand's spell book. You have ruined it and these terrible random short duration replacements are entirely worthless. Give me an extra AE or something so I can close the gap a little with swashbuckler damage on pack fights. 15 second proc sucked, 7 second version is even worse. I dont want to carpal every time a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] aoe is going to hit so I have a Chance of avoiding it.

 

 

[IllusiveThoughts]

---

Lockeye wrote:
The combat art proc and higher proc percentage is meant to give you more control of forcing AR to proc. 7 seconds is plenty of time to throttle your combat arts to get it to proc again. You may also want to save up the reuse on your combat arts when you know bosses are due for an area effect ability. In this way, the AR proc rewards the brigands who time their boss encounters well.

---

It will take on average 8-9 combat arts to proc this once, which means even if spamming ca's theres a chance it will wear off before it procs with it at 30-35% chance, based off a .5s cast combat art.

if the intent is to force the use of it through some skill (such as saving ca's) it needs to be re-evaluated.

The reasoning behind this is say you're on a raid, raid leader calls aoe in 5 seconds, you then spam all your combat arts up at that time, AR doesn't proc you die.  Proc'ing is not based on skill, no mater how you try to make it seem that way.  Its based on pure random luck.  Having a skill as vital as AOE immunity, based on some random % proc will ensure it is never used and counted on.

I understand your intent is to not give brigands the freedom from aoe imunity they had previously, as it was imbalanced, but possibly giving a short term buff, that we CAN controll, on a short re-cast timer and duration is just what the doctor ordered.

 

[Lockeye]

Note: Procs that specifically mention combat arts as their trigger do not normalize, and instead use the raw percentage that is listed. If it is not working as described, then it will be changed.

[Dakkon_10]

---

Lockeye wrote:
The combat art proc and higher proc percentage is meant to give you more control of forcing AR to proc. 7 seconds is plenty of time to throttle your combat arts to get it to proc again. You may also want to save up the reuse on your combat arts when you know bosses are due for an area effect ability. In this way, the AR proc rewards the brigands who time their boss encounters well.

---

If you wanted to reward Brigands who time AR well why not make it a CA in itself, not a buff that has a chance to go off with a CA. It is way too unreliable, even for a skilled player.

[DaLurk]

---

Lockeye wrote:Note: Procs that specifically mention combat arts as their trigger do not normalize, and instead use the raw percentage that is listed. If it is not working as described, then it will be changed.

---

Several propositions were made for a better, useful, reliable AR skill. Pages and pages.And you keep doing it your way.Why do you never listen and try ?It's not a flame, it's a real question. True, no cynicism.

[Snarks]

"better, useful, reliable".. do you just want the old AR? or what, obviously they are intending to nerf this abilityAlthough I do wonder why they didnt just fix the "Breaks on damage taken" aspect.

[DaLurk]

---

snarkteeth wrote:"better, useful, reliable".. do you just want the old AR? or what, obviously they are intending to nerf this ability

---

I don't want absolutely the old AR. But anything that won't rely on proc will be better I think. Even a 3 sec duration skill with 1 hour recast.Current AR is Russian Roulette. Useless.

[Mialia]

Now, there is no more hate bonus in AR, it will be difficult for brigands to tank with it :/ The mercenay AA line is less interesting now. More seriously, all DPS scouts have to joust to survive, but they are already doing more DPS while jousting than brigands with 100% AE avoidance. Do brigands will get a +150% DPS bonus to make it "balanced" ? Best regards,(or not) :smileyvery-happy:

[Tarsonius_Drak]

If I am a raidleader, I would not allow a brigand to play rusish roulette, because his debuffing is needed. So I would say, guy stay outside wait for dispatch. Go in, fire it and go out. Don’t bather you with doing any dmg that will be done by assassins (who can avoid 50% of all AE).

 

Can’t wait for a raid with 10 assassins.

[AratornCalahn]

---

Lockeye wrote:The combat art proc and higher proc percentage is meant to give you more control of forcing AR to proc. 7 seconds is plenty of time to throttle your combat arts to get it to proc again. You may also want to save up the reuse on your combat arts when you know bosses are due for an area effect ability. In this way, the AR proc rewards the brigands who time their boss encounters well.

---

Personaly, I find there is nothing skilled about a random chance. If its too low its simply 'random', if its high then its predictableish but I dont see how thats skill; at least anymore skill than manageing a power draining version or something but perhaps im just misjudging how it would work.

[AratornCalahn]

Also we should get a % hate incrase we lost from AR on an AA instead of one of those crappy 'reduce huge recast time by 5%' ones.

[Cylox Of Boreal]

Dont think any devs are reading this long thread, they are just keeping it to let us brigand players let of some steem.

They could probably care less of what we think, we dont have a big enough community and thus we dont generate as much money as some other classes do.

For example Wizards, Guardians and Rangers.

Like they did for those toiletwrapwears just becouse then said: Its not fun when you raid and an epic mob turn  you and they kill you in one hit. Well ur wish has come true, now you can. Grats all farmers and bots alike. But being a less played class like a brigand, they couldnt care less of what we think. Nope we are just to sit back and take it up the "#¤.

But i guess for SoE to still bring in the big cash they had to nerf our class since the other classes was to upset with our AR.

So after this ill guess im gonna make a wizzy so i can start tanking alittle on the raids aswell and not just the guardians.

[ThunderFunky]

So bascially the situation is as follows, AR "was" considered overpowerd and led to easy mode brigands - i can take that on the chin , not that i agree anyway

 

Now supposedly the new AR is according to the Dev, and from other comments, to make AR some kind of skill lol - basically u get the "AOE inc in 10 secs" call from your raid leader, you then spam all your CA's as fast as possible, and hope that AR procs - you are kidding me right ?! - where is the "skill" in this, there is none , its just a joke. If this is AR in its end form i wont have it on my toobar anymore , theres no just point , may as well joust with the rest of the DPS and check the embarassing parser at the end

 

As someone just stated, our debuffs are some of the best in game, now if you was raid leader on a contested mob with other guilds watching and waiting, and you need that mob dispatched etc, are you seriously gonna let the brigand risk trying to get AR to proc before an AOE? No i wouldnt and i doubt many top guilds would - i can just see the prospect of us being outside of AOE range and told to wait there lol so ensure we get our debuffs in and dont die from aoe

 

And i hear that assassins are getting some kind of total aoe immune on a recast timer? If this is for real , then that makes any comments from ANY class about AR being overpowered a total and utter joke.

 

Assassins AOE immunes spell.... Swashies AOE immune AA line (group)....Conjurors AOE immune tank pets..... That says it all about the current state of of the brig in EOF

 

Peace

[FuzzBall]

---

Cylox Of Borealis wrote:

But i guess for SoE to still bring in the big cash they had to nerf our class since the other classes was to upset with our AR.

---

And yet those stupid thick-as-s**t morons dont seem to realise that a Brig nerf means a raid nerf.

[Dakkon_10]

---

ThunderFunky wrote:

 

Assassins AOE immunes spell.... Swashies AOE immune AA line (group)....Conjurors AOE immune tank pets..... That says it all about the current state of of the brig in EOF

---

If it makes you feel any better, swash group AoE immunity is 15 second duration, 5 min recast. So unless the fight is 15 seconds long we have to joust every other AoE. Not saying his means it's ok for brigand's AoE immunity to suck tho.

Is it so hard to make AR a temp buff that has say, a 10 sec duration, 30 sec recast? You would have a 100% chance of it working but you would still need to time it. The "procs off CA's" is a cool idea, but not for something as important as AoE immunity.

[Shidonya]

---

Urza69 wrote:

If I remember correctly the reason why brigs was given their debuffs in LU13 was due to  no guild wanted them and no one wanted to play them. But back then they were labled as a "DPS" class, yet people played other classes for dps.....wonder why?????

 

Also THE ONLY WAY you would ever beat out a necro/conj/[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]/ would be if they were afk or just hit pet attack.  Yeah our brigs parse about 800-1400 depending on groups and mobs but they still 6 to 9th down on the top 10. 

 

Like I said you are only brought along the raid for your debuffs and thats it.

 

Ask your guild leader if he would bring you to DT for tarinax if you didnt have the debuffs......I bet the answer would be no. 

 

AR is broke atm not due to what is is but because of the mechanics are broke atm.  My berserker procs are messed up and I go berserk like once an hour.

 

But for all the brigs that say awwwwwwwwwww I cant DPS no more because I cant hax the game and avoid every AOE in the game.  For those brigs.... YOUR NOT DPS get over it your only there to debuff and bring your 1k dps along with it.

 

The true 1700+ dps classes will take care of that.

 

Rest of you understand your main job is to debuff not DPS

 

So like I said brigs your sole job and only reason any guild wants you is your debuffs.  

 

Also I am a tank that depends on his hate from beatin on the mob compared to guardians where they get hate from getting hit.  So yeah I have to do dps to be able to hold agro

 

L8er Tuppo

70Bersker of Nagafen

Havoc

 

P.S.  Okay how hard would it be to see okay AOE called yeap AR up good I can stay in, or even ohhh crap run.   With this message you have more of a possibilty for it to be up if you wait to spam your CA's like 20 secs before AOE goes off compared to a buf that you cast once every 5 min

 

Just a thought

 

 

Message Edited by Urza69 on 11-07-200608:43 AM

---

Funny thing is, thus far I've been able to out tank, out dps and out maintain agro the zerkers I've seen. In fact I'm preferred as tank over zerkers in guild.

I don't care about the AR stuff except the hate being removed but that won't effect much except maybe a warlock or two. 

I would like to have something in instead of proposed AR. It isn't right to have a skill in the knowledge book that will never be used. How about a buff that increases all resists by 500 to 800 points? That would be both useful to we tanking Brigs and to the raiding ones who can't avoid aoe's now.

Or here's some ideas for ya, how about a ranged attack that I don't see "Immune" when I use it on an Epic. Ooh ooh or an AOE that could actually do some damage. Perma invis like eq1 would be nice too, since invis in this game it is pretty much pointless currently. Maybe even dare I say group utility of some sort like (Thuggish Envy "ironic don't you think" all group members try to achieve the brigands greatness by increasing their DPS 50% but being the competitor the brigand steps theirs up too) that'd be kewl.

[Jida]

to be hoenest i like this better than 17% for max 20 seconds.I get 38% (after i max aa's) for 7 seconds.. combined with claymore item i see myself ae immune most the time.. the brig's that abused the system and sat on auto attack for fights to kill certain mobs are to blame.offloading combat arts to get a proc and to time it with ae's sounds more like skill with a hint of luck.I like the current version .. there.. i said it..=)(all comments in the above post are my opinion and mine alone, its up 2 you to decied. Good luck)

[Shidonya]

---

Jida wrote:
to be hoenest i like this better than 17% for max 20 seconds.

I get 38% (after i max aa's) for 7 seconds.. combined with claymore item i see myself ae immune most the time.. the brig's that abused the system and sat on auto attack for fights to kill certain mobs are to blame.

offloading combat arts to get a proc and to time it with ae's sounds more like skill with a hint of luck.

I like the current version .. there.. i said it..

=)

(all comments in the above post are my opinion and mine alone, its up 2 you to decied. Good luck)

---

Remains to be seen but sounds like to me another way to put the hate gain on it. Spam CA's for buff = Spike Damage and agro.

[Jida]

---

Shidonya wrote:

---

Jida wrote:to be hoenest i like this better than 17% for max 20 seconds.I get 38% (after i max aa's) for 7 seconds.. combined with claymore item i see myself ae immune most the time.. the brig's that abused the system and sat on auto attack for fights to kill certain mobs are to blame.offloading combat arts to get a proc and to time it with ae's sounds more like skill with a hint of luck.I like the current version .. there.. i said it..=)(all comments in the above post are my opinion and mine alone, its up 2 you to decied. Good luck)

---

Remains to be seen but sounds like to me another way to put the hate gain on it. Spam CA's for buff = Spike Damage and agro.

---

possibly.. agro control should be easier now that its 10% less aggro

[Diapause]

This would be so laughable if it wasn't for the AOE Immunity spells/ca's you are gaving to the Conjy's, Swashies, and Assasins..

Are you freakin' kidding me that you would entertain giving the top TWO DPS TOONS in the entire game any more reason to do more DPS?? What the heck do Assasins and Conjy's need any more help with AOE immunity for.. they joust now and still reign supreme on damage.

Even with a broken AR that let us stay in the fight during AOEs.. we're still out DPS'd by Assassins, Conjy's, Necros, Wizards, Warlocks, Beserkers, Rangers, and Swashies (in grp fights). Where was it overpowered?? Change the spell to a 3k dmg CA every 30 secs to makeup for the DPS loss to jousting and we'll call it even.. I have my resists up to raid level, I don't need your charity AOE immunity.

I'm sorry to put it so bluntly, but we are one of the least played classes gamewide and this change REEEKS of a PVP adjustment that hit us hard for PVE.. 

Dam I'm [Removed for Content]!

[XhaleSlow]

Lockeye, all youve done is generally reduce a brigand to a crap class NOONE will want to play. i wrote a post, but it seems it was deleted, guess the Dev's dont like crap aimed there way.

Anything you do, is definatly not constructive, especially when you go against all other options that were fielded by people who play a brig. All you dev's are the same...you dont give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], and one day, when theres noone left and EQ2 is a ghosttown because of your unnesessary nerfs, im gonna laugh at yer arses when yer lookin for jobs at atari.

Peace out, and more power to ya, but im definatly one brig who doesnt believe one [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] line of yer bull.

And for all you people who believe the "38% chance to proc" noway in hell, look at yer procs even our poisons with a 25% chance, and our offensive stance with the 25% chance to proc...go off so rarely that it isnt even funny...for them to tell us it'll work as a proc...nother [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] lie cause procs are SKROOD, and theyve been screwed forever, the % listed on a spell is a poor shadow to the 1-2% they actually go off...ie putting anything on a proc is an utter waste of time...specially if you wanna rely on it...the % on the spell means jack, its all about the casting time of the CA...28% my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].

 

Message Edited by XhaleSlowly on 11-08-2006 06:58 AM